₦airaland Forum

Meninmen:
2. On Treatment being better than prevention.

Lol. Where do I start from? Okay. Let's go.

You lied when you said the starting point of our discourse was when you said prevention is better than cure.

Dude, here is my FIRST-EVER exchange with you...
https://www.nairaland.com/5833538/ffk-bill-melinda-gates-satanic/2

Meninmen:
This is not about FFK being delusional. Its about Bill Gates actions and comments being suspicious. I was one of those who always attack those who attack Bill Gates considering what he has done for Africa. But since this Coronavirus issue started, Bill Gate has been the most vocal voice of a vaccine with a chip. He is even more loud than the WHO. He has said the vaccine should be made mandatory. He should slow down. He is crying more than the bereaved. He is not the only Billionaire in the world. The way he has been going about this vaccine issue is beginning to raise suspicion. He is not WHO, he is not a govt, he is not a health expert, but he has been the greatest advocate of vaccine chip.

Vaccine is not the only option. Drugs can also be developed. I wonder why his focus has been on vaccine.

He should slow down and allow health authorities tackle this issue. With the way he is going, he is behaving as one who doesn't have time in his hands concerning a vaccine with a chip.

9jaRealist:
Because PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE...
If any so-called "chip" is an issue, it can easily be done away with.

Funny when Africans with their DECREPIT healthcare system oppose vaccines...
Wealthy Western nations can provide free/affordable care and EXPENSIVE drugs in the absence of a vaccine. You cannot!
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Meninmen:
1. You really lack understanding. I never said Bill Gates was opposed to development of drugs for covid 19. Go back and read what I said about Bill Gates.

2. If you want Me to show you evidence where and when Bill Gates has been discussing about how vaccines for COVID-19 will be administered, then you are not a serious fellow. Go watch his interviews on YouTube and stop displaying high level of ignorance here.

3. Vaccine trials underway? Lol. Do you know the result of the first vaccine trial in the UK?

In the meantime, the FDA just approved Remdesivir for treatment of COVID-19 few minutes ago.

9jaRealist:
It was only approved for EMERGENCY use...
Just as Hydroxychloroquine was approved before it.

It is NOT a cure for Covid...
And only improves recovery time from an average of 15 to 11 days.

With all due respect...
A little knowledge can be more DANGEROUS than none at all. SMH
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https://www.fda.gov/media/137564/download
https://www.fda.gov/media/136534/download

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11475193_7a91f0852b3d4fd880eae504aa6ea54f_jpeg2280838dbc80aba61d9c5da0fbee0fa1
www.nairaland.com/attachments/11475194_21048e814abb4689b705b529cd2b01fa_jpegcadf6d72b0c4276a3e4cdd126d27acb1

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Meninmen:
Lol. No need for Remdesivir. No level for Corona for Corona for my side.

Now to issue at hand

1. On FDA:
You said FDA approved hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19. I told you they didn't. Then you sent a link and a screenshot of the FDA supposed approval for the Use of Hydroxychloroquine for treatment of COVID-19.

Know this; Emergency authorization for the use of a drug is different from Approval for the use of such drug. From the link you sent, FDA never APPROVED the Use of Hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19. They only gave EMERGENCY AUTHORIZATION for the use of Hydroxychloroquine in certain patients. It is was never an approval!!!

9jaRealist:
It was only approved for EMERGENCY use...
Just as Hydroxychloroquine was approved before it.

It is NOT a cure for Covid...
And only improves recovery time from an average of 15 to 11 days.

With all due respect...
A little knowledge can be more DANGEROUS than none at all. SMH
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Jelzin2412:
Clearly you can state your points without speculating on how cheap I got my Education. you do not know me neither do you know where and how I got my Education, hence I suggest we don't derail outside the topic of discuss.

Lastly, it's your view and I respect it but unfortunately it's easier to view things from the outside.

Cheers and goodnight

I had already removed that part of the comment, but apparently not fast enough...
Apologies if it was too personal (albeit you initiated that), but hopefully the substantive point was clear.

Cheers.
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Jelzin2412:
Let me tell you something. I'm a Dr and I understand our peculiarities but don't you think even for the so called suspected case a Dr would have to do preliminary evaluation before deeming it so? Won't the Nurses check the patient's vital signs on entry? What if the patient has atopic condition like Asthma or other respiratory disease, won't the Dr at least take a brief history to guide him better?

It's so easy to suggest and insinuate from the outside.

I wish them all well. As for me, I'm in a place where my PPE is adequately provided and I'm more confident discharging my duties. If Nigerian HCWs are okay managing the risks, goodluck to them.

Lastly, PPE is globally scarce the reason most nations solicited and encouraged their local manufacturers to produce these PPEs thereby providing adequate protection for its ftontline workers and at same time keeping productivity a bit alive. One stone to kill 2 birds. We should do same. Cheers

ANYBODY could come into contact with Covid positive persons on a daily basis because they are so many asymptomatic carriers. Given that (unlike most other viruses) a Covid positive persons can actually transmit the virus without first (or ever) developing symptoms, you might as well suggest that the government should provide EVERYONE with PPE and that no one should leave home without donning one.

Given the reality of the worldwide scarcity of PPE, just in the same manner that you are not actually suggest that EVERY PERSON be supplied with PPE (at least, I hope you are not) but that priority be accorded to HCWs who find themselves in the “frontline” of the Covid battle, so also is Nigeria doing the same (the only substantive difference being where each set the frontline, in light of available resources).

Meanwhile, MASSIVE APPRECIATION and THANKS, as well as prayers and thoughts to all healthcare workers out there!
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Jelzin2412:
Your statement that FMC Abeokuta not being a designated COVID-19 treatment centre might have negated them from being supplied the standard PPE. It's not the standard. Any institution that caters for the health of the masses or that of the elderly or vulnerable population ought to have the full appropriate standard PPE. That's the guideline

And yet even in the US there’s still critical shortages of PPE...
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Jelzin2412:
If you really understand how contagious this virus is and how easily it's transmitted you won't suggest this at all. Seeing them on surgical mask (instead off FFP-3 or N95 masks), without face shield (eyes exposed) and bare skin while attending to a suspected COVID-19 case fill me with rage for Govt mixed with pity for their lives.

With all the PPE we have lost more 100 healthcare workers in the UK (with more than 30% of the HCWs testing positive). Italy has lost more than 200 of it's healthcare workers too.

There's no alternative to appropriate PPE. Govt should do the right thing or have their staff down their tools. I for one would never be close to any patient this period COVID-19 or not without an appropriate PPE. It's an act of wickedness not to provide adequate and appropriate PPE to any frontline personnel.

Jelzin2412:
Your statement that FMC Abeokuta not being a designated COVID-19 treatment centre might have negated them from being supplied the standard PPE. It's not the standard. Any institution that caters for the health of the masses or that of the elderly or vulnerable population ought to have the full appropriate standard PPE. That's the guideline

Nigeria has designated Covid treatment centers...
Given the worldwide shortage of PPE, Nigeria prioritizes these for those centers (albeit not exclusively).

EVERY SINGLE news conference by Nigerian public health authorities admonishes private and public hospitals NOT to treat suspected Covid patients but to immediately isolate them and contact the NCDC or other appropriate authorities. And yet, many of the Covid deaths in Nigeria have been patients who were initially being treated at private hospitals or clinics, until their symptoms became unmanageable or critical.
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Jelzin2412:
I'm afraid but that's not the standard as clearly defined by WHO. B4 suspected COVID-19 surgical or other face mask beside N95 or FFP3 mask has been shown to be useless. If they are tending to an unsuspected case with other medical illness then surgical or other masks will suffice (though still not safe) but in a case of suspected COVID-19 they should be donned on appropriate PPE b4 coming close to such patient; that's the standard...

Now you understand the true meaning of frontline workers cos you can't tell what's to come. It's akin to a soldier in a battle field..

What part of my comment that many healthcare workers in Nigeria would INADVERTENTLY come into contact with Covid cases was confusing?
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fairfora:
Since the govt has failed to rise to its responsibilities by providing the PPE, the nurses had to improvise. That's how far the frontline workers could go to save lives...they couldn't have just abandoned those patients unattended naw. Had they left the covid-19 patients to die due to lack of PPE? Nigerians would have still attacked them. Rather than reprimand them, I salute their courage... There are a lot going on at various isolation centres which neither NCDC nor the PTF would tell you. Unfortunately we have inept people in government.

Instead of inviting those Chinese drs at such a huge cost, why not use the money to bring in PPE. Are you aware our front line workers wash and reuse PPE? It's that bad. I doubt if the chinese drs' mission was related to covid-19 as the fed govt claimed. Our govt are stupid liars.

But nobody is reprimanding them...

Even standard PPE is not a 100% guarantee against infection...
But it is important not to provide a false sense of bio security to folks, which would make an already dangerous situation even moreso.

Courage is admirable, but simply not enough against Covid.
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jeromedee:
They weren’t wearing any PPE underneath, they improvised due to shortage and one of them died of Corona.

RIP...

But PPE is NOT a 100% guarantee against infection...
It thus should be used in combination with other precautionary measures.
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Richy4:
Every health facilities is taking a precaution now. Covid-19 treatment centre or not.. a lot of patients shows the symptoms I'm a normal hospital.if the staffs were not wearing the proper kits, u can imagine

Which they should...

But this is not why Covid patients escape from Covid treatment centers...
As the personnel in the designated Covid treatment facilities have standard PPE.

The only rational explanation for such escapes is IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY!
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Someone7:
So the vaccines should be tested in Africa because frontline nurses don't have enough protective equipment? Clap for yourself

That was a head scratcher....
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rotadeco27:
That is the mistake we are making. Who is more at risk? The people that have 1st contact with the patient and suspected the case is more at risk of exposure than the those who are on full kit of PPE having known it a suspected case.
We are shouting front line , that is why the rate of spread to health workers is increasingly alarming.
Everyone at the point of entry into the hospital ( Accident and emergency (A&E), Emergency paediatric Unit( EPU), Obstetrics and gynaecological emergency, ) should all be on Full PPE. Treat all patient as potential covid patient, if not we are all at increasing risk of infection

Ideally, but not practicable given the worldwide shortage of PPE...
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Richy4:
If nurses were like this, why won't the patients abscond from treatment centres

Because FMC Abeokuta is NOT a Covid treatment center...
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gaius01:
This is insane, I don't blame them, I blame our chaotic government, who can't mimick other countries health sector. It so pathetic that at the edge of thier lives they had to wear this because our erroneous government can't provided adequate health facilities. My question is where are all those money offer by good citizens of Nigeria in the name of help, assistant to the government. If today am to have money to give to the less privilege I won't dare to offer it to Nigeria government so terrible, this official still loot money that are to be use by to treat the great citizens of Nigeria. I pity for this nation and I pray God will see the less privileged individuals

UltimateSpice:
Is the situation as bad as that? Government should please do something about it.

Play safe.

OriOko88:
This is totally unacceptable. This is no where near the recommended ppe. Africa is just a joke of a continent. Tell me how thses nurses won't contact corona when they handle any infected patient. Na God dey save Africa as.s. I swear.

If FMC Abeokuta is NOT a designated Covid treatment facility, then it’s not surprising that these nurses would not have standard PPE which is in short supply across the world. However, substituting polythene would be dangerous to the extent that it provides a false sense of bio security.
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jeromedee:
What has poverty rate got to do with this? Too many idiots roaming Nairaland nowadays.

Here’s Health workers at NYC hospital wearing trash bags as protection due to shortage of PPE.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11474610_8b2b6e606d7b4ee5abb34fa439a612ab_jpeg_jpeg57a9b256b300b3f0b3fa71d7913a16e8

Except they appear to be wearing standard PPE underneath the trash bags...
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obi4eze:
What nonsense is this?

Why should they use biohazard bags as PPE if there is actually PPE?

Hazard allowances are useless if adequate PPE isn't provided. Personally I won't enter the ward if adequate PPE isn't provided.

This is one of the reasons why front line personnel got infected in Kano and other states.

fairfora:
Which alternative have you and the FG provided?

If FMC Abeokuta is NOT a designated Covid treatment facility, then it’s not surprising that these nurses would not have standard PPE which is in short supply across the world. However, substituting polythene would be dangerous to the extent that it provides a false sense of bio security.
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Kenmatt:
I have always been thinking if these face masks that cover just the mouth and nose can prevent this virus completely

No, you need much more...
If a frontline medical worker, you need complete PPE gear.

N95 face masks will help to protect the wearer from infection...
While other non-medical face masks only prevent the wearer infecting others.

Everyone else, sit your behind at home...
And if you must go out, practice social distancing - and hope for the best!
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Presumably FMC Abeokuta is not a designated COVID treatment center...
Therefore, it is not surprising they do not have standard PPE gear since most hospitals (anywhere) will not.

Unfortunately, because of the nature of COVID (and particularly in Nigeria)...
Many hospitals/healthcare workers will INADVERTENTLY come into contact with COVID positive persons.

Given that standard PPE has become quite scarce across the world...
Basic protective gear (face masks, gloves) should be standard for all hospitals, which seems the case here.

Meanwhile, the polythene ‘jackets’ are frankly ridiculous...
Might even be considered dangerous, to the extent that it provides a false sense of bio security.
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awesomely:
www.nairaland.com/attachments/11473438_f15aef877bc2b1d6d4d4ece31078675d5c12nollywoodactors_rhorizontal_w700picsay_jpegff9ea9f659451ecec868c93de571721c

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olisaemeka1:
Very cool ...far better than robbing Peter just to pay Paul as recorded by access bank. I mean ..a renowned banker throws 1 billion in2 thin air ..then turns around to sack his workers.. is that not 1st class madness?

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11473977_b9d07105cd4b43149c6ac587874dc2af_jpeg3546ac0db1d519cfcc70a92eb340d488
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Meninmen:
Lol. Bro. I have seen all your nonsense. Fortunately, I just received my salary alert from the stupid FG. So, let me go and drink one bottle of chilled star raddler and some suya meat. I will come back to lecture you!

I will be waiting...
Although something tells me not to hold my breath.

Meanwhile, hope you practice social distancing at your Suya joint...
PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE, and Remdesivir will not help you.
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So from whom or where did this ‘pregnant cashier’ receive her sack letter?

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11473977_b9d07105cd4b43149c6ac587874dc2af_jpeg3546ac0db1d519cfcc70a92eb340d488
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AlhajaChinyere:
Ok but bear in mind that Nigeria government is useless because the Nigerian people are just as useless. The government is 100% reflection of the people it derives from! Don't forget that.

BLESS YOU!
Nigeria’s condition is the culmination of the actions (by commission or omission) of ALL Nigerians!
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ubcandid:
heck. Dude, I don't know if the video said a different thing, but if you're commenting based on the article, no where was '75 % employees stated'. The word used was 'workerforce' and the headline stated workers. In further, the article stated MOST OF WHOM ARE OUTSOURCED. The percentage of contract staffs that make up their workforce to be retrenched is not given, so also their employees as they also would be affected.
Take your time and read again.

Apparently not just the headline but the entire ‘news story’ about retrenchment was MISLEADING...

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11473977_b9d07105cd4b43149c6ac587874dc2af_jpeg3546ac0db1d519cfcc70a92eb340d488

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The evolution of sophistry...

Meninmen:
Stop being myopic. If a drug for Coronavirus Comes out now, you will say people should not take the drugs because prevention is better than cure?

And if you can read, you will understand that my comment didn't oppose vaccine. I'm a health care worker and I know the role vaccine can play in pandemic like this.

My point is, Bill Gates should allow health authorities and companies do their job of developing a vaccine and/or drug for COVID-19 without his constant talk of how a vaccine that has not be discovered will be administered.

Meninmen:
To you, you sound smart but actually, you smack of foolishness.

1. Vaccines and drugs can't be simultaneously available because there are so many drugs already in the clinical trial phase (e.g Remdesivir). It will take a longer time to get a vaccine.

2. The issue here is not vaccine vs drug. The issue here is that Bill Gates should allow health agencies and drug companies develop a solution to this pandemic (whether with a drug or vaccine). He should end discussions on how COVID-19 vaccine will be administered when such vaccines have not even been developed.

Hundreds of Vaccines have been developed b4 Bill Gates and vaccines will continually be developed after Bill Gates. Never has the mode of adminstration of a vaccine preceded the development of such vaccines.

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Meninmen:
Okay. Thank God you now know the difference between a cure and a treatment and that hydroxychloroquine was never approved for the treatment for COVID-19 which you falsely alluded to. At least, someone has learnt something.

Now, on the issue of me being opposed to development of a vaccine by Bill Gates, Oxford and other companies, I will assume that you are trying to play smart.

For the record, refer to my earlier posts of what I said about Bill Gates and vaccines. This time, read the posts slowly and get understanding. No point arguing on this aspect

Yet more OFFICIAL US FDA documents...
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-daily-roundup-march-30-2020
https://www.fda.gov/media/136534/download

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11473860_00ca6811db3d4494b4eb8fc1c10e92af_jpegd4c8dc681e5df5ec3b6b741674c51bed
www.nairaland.com/attachments/11473861_89cc4d2545fb4180b6adc9f447c20d92_jpeg460aad4aa0aeac60c3d9c7d79a15fa51www.nairaland.com/attachments/11473862_1cb80c0457864a51ab3b845a5374f316_jpeg409e7570267af9a1be9b26b74bd44d0a

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Meninmen:
Okay. Thank God you now know the difference between a cure and a treatment and that hydroxychloroquine was never approved for the treatment for COVID-19 which you falsely alluded to. At least, someone has learnt something.

Now, on the issue of me being opposed to development of a vaccine by Bill Gates, Oxford and other companies, I will assume that you are trying to play smart.

For the record, refer to my earlier posts of what I said about Bill Gates and vaccines. This time, read the posts slowly and get understanding. No point arguing on this aspect

Whatever happened to #endofdiscussion...
You couldn’t get enough of the free education?

Regarding the highlighted above...
So YOUR argument all along has been that TREATMENT IS BETTER THAN PREVENTION?!

Dude, the starting point of the discourse between us is my assertion that PREVENTION IS BETTER THAN CURE...
Which you sought to undermine by showing that a cure is imminent and citing the FDA’s approval Remdesivir in that CONTEXT.
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ProfDview1:
This woman is a single mother
Yes only single mothers are frustrated like this. That is why I warned my guys to be careful when dating a single mother. They are always frustrated, bad tempered....

If a woman can be slapping a police man like this, only God knows where the husband is now.

But but but
But why slap the woman at first?

Never heard dt any US or UK police slap sumone just like that.. Even though our police are mad, that woman deserves 6 months in prison

MISOGYNIST!
You and this woman deserve some time together.
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Meninmen:
Let me show you how clueless you are;

You: it was only approved for Emergency use just as hydroxychloroquine was approved before it.

Me: 1. Remdesivir was approved for people with severe COVID-19 illness (especially those on ventilators, and not necessarily an emergency treatment). Go find out what an emergency treatment is.
2. Hydroxychloroquine was never approved for the treatment of COVID-19. Only the FDA approves the use of any drug In the US. The FDA never approved the use of Hydroxychloroquine for treatment of COVID-19. As a matter of fact, they warned against it's use for COVID-19.

You: it is not a cure for COVID-19

Me: Bro, I never said Remdesivir has been approved for the CURE of COVID-19. I said Remdesivir has been approved for the TREATMENT of COVID-19. There is a difference between cure and treatment.

You: Remdesivir only improves recovery time

Me: if you had known the difference between treatment and cure, you wouldn't have said this because when I said treatment, it encompasses the recovery time.

Stop displaying ignorance on social media. You are APPEARING to be knowledgeable while in actual fact, you are so EMPTY upstairs.

I will take my time now to show you that FDA never approved hydroxychloroquine and that treatment is not the same as cure.

Please learn!

#Endofdiscussion

At last, a positive!
You know enough to know that when you find yourself in a self-dug HOLE you quit digging!

So you meant that Remdesivir is for "treatment" of Covid like all other drugs used to MANAGE Covid symptoms?
And because of that you want Bill Gates, Oxford and other vaccine researchers to ease off on the development of a vaccine?!!

That moment you mistakenly thought you'd hit a homerun, only to see the ball sail foul...
Reaffirming that some knowledge can sometimes be much more DANGEROUS than none at all! SMH
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ubcandid:
with your grammer, I'm convinced that you know what a headline is. I just guess from this highlighted comment of yours, that you've come to terms with your goof, but just beating around to save face.

If you go through your first response and compare with this quoted, you would agree that you're beating around in confusion.

To spare all these, can you suggest an appropriate headline to fit the article?

"Access Bank To Cut Staff Salaries, Retrench 75% Of Outsource Workers"

Just one (or two) words makes all the difference...
Without the highlighted, the (misleading) impression is that it's Access Bank employees.

Most Nigerians often neglect details....
But the proper use of language is one of those details that matter.
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