₦airaland Forum

One day I'll be wealthier than this man, I have bill but they don't come with ions

HigherEd:
All i know is Covenant produces a lot of excellent developers home and abroad. Currently, we have quite a number working at Silicon Valley and i know they are excellent. I do not know whether they acquired their practical knowledge from school or elsewhere.
The issue of curriculum is an issue for all Nigerian programmes. We need to get to the point where universities are allowed to determine and design their own curriculum.

I can guaranty that if they are working in Silicon Valley they got the knowledge outside of Nigeria. You are definitely right about curriculum, it is high time for a new design with modern systems and techniques, hopefully we get it right one day because many countries are so far ahead in math and science especially Asian countries.

Hammer hammer....you don land yourself inside slammer

CodeTemplar:
You still refuse to acknowledge there is no specific way to teach computer science. Covenant is doing great. Unilorin too. Even OAU ((Ife) I just finish checking theirs.

Don't transfer you bias of OSU(OOU) to all schools. There are many students who fun shed from CU and UI and are dong great in advanced studies in those countries you mentioned.

Why do you like to speak as if you are an expert on this matter? You are not an educator or a computer science professor so what do you mean there is no specific way to teach? I wouldn't waste my time fully analyzing your statement above but speaking from a statistical point of view, what percentage of Nigerian computer science graduates successfully completed their advanced degree in computer science abroad? A more realistic question, what percentage of computer science graduates from Nigeria are successfully employed in a computer science field abroad? If you don't have the answers to these questions then please don't make blanketed statements, I can only give you my experience and that of at least 12 colleagues of mine from Nigeria. Our B.S in Comp. Science was practically worthless, keep in mind some of these guys went to Ife and Unilag but still got the shock of their lives when they realized they were operating on outdated knowledge. My intention here is no to talk bad about the Nigerian education system but to raise awareness that the rest of the world is leaving us behind educationally.

CodeTemplar:
Is your comparison of a technical university like Gtech to partially/non technical one fair in you own opinion?

Do we have technical universities in Nigeria? If so bring out their syllabus let's compare. My initial comparison was to the best universities in Nigeria when it comes to programming and the two names given were UniIlorin and Covenant. I can also show you the curriculum of Georgia State or Clayton State and they both still beat the best in Nigeria. It gets to a point when you realize syllabus matters just as much as the mode of teaching. A computer science student expected to pass 15 classes in the final year is a joke, there is no defense for it!

CodeTemplar:
If u admit uni and technical sch complement each other why compare them in the first place?

Check out this University of Ibadan Link and tell me if it matches or comes close to any US university's CS curriculum : https://sci.ui.edu.ng/compscicourse

I never compared techniical school to a university, I used technical schools to showcase how I got knowledge for a specific programming language(JavaScript). I compared a technical universities such as Gtech to our universities in Nigeria. I could have compared Gtech to our polytechnics but that would make matters worse. I like UI's syllabus much better but I still see the same problem, more and more theories. When you are expected to complete 15 or more classes in your final year, how does any student truly assimilate? This is why you have graduates that crammed just to pass exams but are unable to compile and debug a simple program.

CodeTemplar:
Your falsehoods are much but I will try my best.
I gave you a link that shows they use C and teach CS in way very similar to how CU teaches theirs.
Even in you post replying the victorious you said technical schools aren't exactly universities but can't seem to acknowledge that simple fact on your way to badmouthing Nigerian Uni CS curriculum.

JavaScript and Java is good but no one will start teaching you Java for the sake of being grounded in it. What those Technical Schools your are parading as Universities do is to adapt one major language on their way to covering a branch of CS. That doesn't make them rival either directly or indirectly to universities.

Most CS guys in Nigeria end up in financial sector and that clearly explains why the students are introduced to Financial Accounting. You clearly don't know the purposes of establishment of universities and technical schools.


Look at the link I gave you well, They have major and minor and then Core CS. check the syllabuses out and stop being emotional.

You don't know what you're talking about! No one goes to a technical school to get a degree in computer science, show me where I said that? Furthermore I went to a technical school to get comprehensive knowledge on Javascript and nothing else, for my degree I attended a university. Please stop confusing yourself!

CodeTemplar:
Check out UI also. They have website.

If according to you the US schools follow a distinct path as from year 2 what happens to the other paths? or are you implying they have only one path or branch of CS?

Year one and two you are taught general fundamental concepts, year 3 and 4 you must follow a distinct path cutomized based on your interest. For me it was systems Architecture, for someone else it could me networks or mobile computing.

CodeTemplar:
Have you compared the one in the link I gave you to covenant university CS ? Please be specific with how CU's own is inferior.

I used that of GTech to compare, Valpariso is not comprehensive enough as most of their courses are embedded in electives but if you click the link to the electives you would see more programming courses not offered by CU. In regards to CU, yes the entire syllabus has only three or four courses aimed at advance level computer science theories and another 4 or 5 aimed at mid-level computational theories, notice the word 'theories', lack of actual practice is what actually dooms most Nigerian graduates nowadays. For example students are just learning concepts of programming language in 400 level? This is cute, I wonder how many lines of code graduates can actually write? No doubt they've come along way, it is certainly more advanced than the rubbish I learned at OOU but this is still inadequate, our graduates can not seriously challenge for real jobs in other parts of the world with such basic knowledge, it's sad!

TheVictorious:
Which field are you into now sir?

I'm a senior I.T Auditor currently working on Ph.D in Info Technology.

CodeTemplar:
C is also being used in top schools in America but they don't have backward syllabus.
They also have core versions of CS that run for four years and teach core CS concepts just like most Nigerian schools.
Most times the students are the problem. They condemn a good syllabus blindly without doing a proper background check. CS can be taught in a general way and is being taught in a general way in many USA schools. What they do in addition to that is carve out a more narrow version that addresses specific aspect of CS like OS, Architecture, Enterprise and more. Don't confuse that for being superior to the Nigerian version.

I would like to see the syllabus of a Nigerian school that comes remotely close to that of GTech, I've seen that of Covenant and it is ridiculous! Unfortunately in this case you cannot defend the mediocrity of the Nigerian school curriculum. C language is outdated and only taught in basic or remedial classes, when you get to the 3rd and final year, it is expected that you are fully versed in a more modern programming language like Java or JavaScript, it is expected that you are versed in design, OS Architecture and so on. No computer science course in the U.S is ever taught in a general way, by the second year you are following a distinct path just like I highlighted earlier and most of these classes not only deals with theoretical aspect but extensive practicals as well. Let's call a spade a spade, if you are saying Nigerian students are the problem, how come they excel when they travel abroad? The syllabus and mode of teaching is the problem, STOP MAKING EXCUSES!

TheVictorious:
Hmm. Any difference between technical schools and universities?

HigherEd

Technical schools are more for certificates and diplomas. They focus on getting you into your field directly and weeds out all the unneccessary theoretical aspects. Some technical schools are also universities such as Georgia Tech and M.I.T.

CodeTemplar:
Now you are talking.
There are many aspect of CS u can major in.

I found this:
https://www.valpo.edu/computing-information-sciences/academics/undergraduate-degree-programs/areas-of-focus-in-computer-science/

are you doing masters or a degree or diploma equivalent sef?

I'm no longer in school for computer science, that was for my second masters degree. Now I'm working on a Ph.D. in another field.

CodeTemplar:
I doubt it. design pattern is so broad. There appears to be nothing on enterprise programming also. This whole program is like a professional masters.

Yea but keep in mind this is only one path, they have like 5 different paths, I just chose the one I specialized in

CodeTemplar:
Those courses don't look like design pattern courses to me.

Object and Design is most likely to be about things like OOP and UML.
Programming Language Design is simple the design of a programming language like of I want to design my own java or python. CS 6241 is a similar to the preceding course but addresses compilers.
Design patterns like singleton, factory, decorator, observer, null, and state patterns.

Trust me bro they are! Null and factory for example are covered briefly in each of those classes. I guess what you meant is a full class dedicated to design patterns and other data structure methodology. The closest is CS 1332 Data structures and Algorithms.

CodeTemplar:
@abbey621, I can't see design patterns there. That's a major aspect of CS. No RDBMS also.

CS 2340 Objects and Design
CS 4392 Programming Language Design,
CS 6241 Design and Implementation of Compilers,

These three courses cover design patterns and relational database management systems are covered under
CS 4400 Introduction to Database Systems (Available as an elective).

CodeTemplar:
From what i know some schools do decide to narrow down some courses right from first degree level. The link you provided points to a specialized form of CS.

I know some schools who also major in batch programming aspect of CS right from first degree.

What Nigerian schools teach is more of the generic CS that covers a bit of everything or introduction to courses like accounting, medical sysyem and engineering that complement CS skills.

Now you're talking. You're right Nigeria covers the basic fundamentals which is why most of the syllabus operates on C programming. Unfortunately in the advanced world, this is not good enough. I was laughed out of about 3 to 4 interviews before it dawned on me that my degree in computer science was subpar. I pray we get it right one day because 4 to 5 years of fundamentals is really ridiculous when other countries are achieving full knowledge integration and implementation.

Hahahahaha......Hahahaha.....In a sane country, simple engine failure is a more acceptable excuse than no having enough fuel but in Nigeria it's the other way around.....It gets to a point all we can do is laugh and drink cold beer

CodeTemplar:
Do those technical schools (TEs) teach a single language or many languages?
Is it a course they take eg java programming, python or even design patterns or how are they structured?
Please give example of some of those TEs so I can grasp what you are referring to.

In the meantime I like to let you know that java programming thought in any university in the world cannot cover 15% of java language. what universities do mostly is to introduce you to relevant technical topics and course. introduction barely covers 10% of the workload most times.

It's one course led by an instructor with practical applications and it varies from object oriented programming to data modeling. Each school varies but the popular ones are using Javascript or the new craze in town Ruby on Rails.

Once again you are wrong, an average computer science program in the U.S. covers more than fundamentals or introduction. For example t GTech if you are a computer science student and you chose the System Architecture path, you'll learn over 15 courses relating to programming, specifically object oriented, data models and embedded designs, here is the link https://www.cc.gatech.edu/systems-architecture.

Forget o, the world has gone far beyond our 80s syllabus being used. Don't even let me get started with what they are doing in Japan and China, those ones are operating on a different frequency....lol

CodeTemplar:
At the end of the day, programming languages can but deceptive. What matters most are the principles of programming and Nigerian schools are do well enough in my opinion. content and mode of its delivery are more of lecturer attitude influenced issues. I insist uni education isn't cheap anywhere, not even in eastern Europe as people tend to argue.

Once again I disagree, when it comes to programming, you not only need the fundamentals but the practical and repetitive actions as well. Maybe it's the programmer in me talking or perhaps the auditor in me but you cannot boast of a well rounded computer science program by teaching only fundamental theories. It took me just 3 months to learn Javascript here in the U.S. whereas after 5 to 6 years of schooling, I could barely write more than a page of coding. This is why I maintain that expensive schooling does not necessarily translate into effective graduates. Don't get me wrong there are areas where we excel in Nigerian universities such as theater arts, general studies and so on but when it comes to science or engineering, we are still operating in the 80s. Covenant, Babcock, Unilag, UI and the rest are like kindagrteens compared to an ordinry technical school here in the states, a technical school that costs less than $1000 per program, now that's what I call QUALITY!

TheVictorious:
Covenant University website has virtually everything you need to know about the school. Ranging from departments, course contents, brief description and objetive of courses, lecturers'profile, etc. https://covenantuniversity.edu.ng/Colleges/CST/SNAS/Computer-Information-Sciences#.W9IIkntKi00

You could download the comp. science handbook for prospective undergraduates: https://covenantuniversity.edu.ng/content/download/52559/356315/file/Computer%20Science%20Handbook.pdf

Sorry this (CSC 313: Object-Oriented Programming: (2 Units)) is the only course that mentions Java, it's like trying to teach a kid to read a novel and starting off by reciting the alphabets. No need to argue here, clearly you are not a computer science student so it wouldn't be fair to hold you to such standards.

CodeTemplar:
Covenant Uni and Ilorin have been teaching java for ages. I remember prof Ibiyemi coming on stage in a general assembly to justify the choice of java language then.
Even architecture student in covenant switched from manual drawing in 2003 to CAD based systemof drawing. I am sure there are one or two other private schools like that also.
Don't make the mistake of throwing out the baby with the bath water.

When did Covenant start teaching Java? What's the course number? I have no doubt one or two universities might be trending in the right direction but they still pale in comparison to the rest of the advanced world. At this stage, we should be talking about JavaScript, Python and even Swift yet we are strugglong to see one or two universities spinkle in Java, anyways kudos to the universities you mentioned, back in my days na Cobol and C language we got and that was at 300 level or above....RIDICULOUS

The last time SouthWest had power, what good did it do Yorubaland? Please Igbo, Hausa or even Foreigner, what matters is a good heart and effective policies!

CodeTemplar:
The grant and scholarship system you highlighted is what I have been advocating for. I also advocated for a loan system.

Also be aware that there many scholarship programs in Nigeria. Most northern state governors pay for student in their states to attend federal and private universities.

As for the other part about syllabus and course work in schools. The Nigerian syllabus isn't so different from what most schools abroad offer. When I say abroad I mean American schools and top schools. One of the problem with our system is the that of not so serious minds flooding the schools. if the percentage of brilliant mind getting admitted into our schools was higher I don't think you will be condemning the Nigeria syllabus.

I have to disagree with the bold part of your comment. Maybe you meant general courses like Business Admin and Accounting but when it comes to Computer Science or any Engineering course, the syllabus is woeful in comparison. Let me give you an example, I graduated from OOU in 2008, we were not even taught Java, I got to the U.S . some months after and quickly discovered most schools taught Java as part of their first or second year courses in Computer Science, imagine when will 9ja universities start teaching advanced Javascript, Python a so on. Everyone knows the average Nigerian course syllabus is outdated so I'm surprised you are even arguing in support of it....lol

CodeTemplar:
Free education will lead to poor education anywhere. I say this because it will lead desperate minds who are after the certificate and graduate status to keep bribing their way in. Most people know private schools cost around half a million and above so would rather bribe 250k to enter unilag and it is mostly people like that who enjoy about N2 million subsidy over 4 or 5 years then drop the certificate and skill acquired.
Imagine a society short of microbiologists having less than 20 percent of the graduates practicing their govt subsidized vocation and you now ask that govt to increase the subsidy per student by funding the schools more.
A smart govt team will recommend the students enjoying the subsidized training to pay more in order to commit them into practising what they studied.
This will help eliminate the scourge of certified yahoo bois and runs girls clique who drain the bulk of funding that can help lift educational standard.
I maintain that free education ( free financially and intellectually ) will attract riff Raff's any day anytime and lead to poor educational standard.

Have you traveled outside of Nigeria? Because often we think just because something does not work in Nigeria that it won't work anywhere in the world. Do you know we have universities here in the U.S where you can get scholarships to pay for every year of your tuition? Do you know we have grants and so on fo even the best schools out there? I dare you to post the syllabus of any course at the best schools in Nigeria and I'll post that of one of the tuition free schools here in the U.S. and we'll see which school offers the best to its students. For example, most Computer science grads fom Nigeria are still stuck on outdated programming languages while these tuiion free or low tuition schools are training students on the latest. My friend, more expensive does not always equal more effective, if it did all the average income people are doomed!

Why do we like embarrassing ourselves in this country? The U.S has no power over local elections in a foreign country, they also do not have time for 3rd world problems because they are busy fighting their own problems. Bombs being sent to politicians, crisis in Saudi Arabia, stock market decline, November midterm elections to say a few and y'all think he'll take this seriously? ....RUBBISH!

CodeTemplar:
You are very ignorant and arrogant about it.
The govt subsidizes unilag students heavily and it will be a foolish move to compare the tuition paid by Babcock student to unilag student on the surface. Going deep a little will reveal unilag gets about 300k plus per student from the government. So factor that into you argument and adjust accordingly.

You can do without the namecalling otherwise you come off as someone with a low IQ incapable of arguing without using insults as a buffer. The reason I used Unilag and Babcock is based on those universities being ranked higher than 70% of schools in Nigeria. Yet as high as they are ranked they are still inferior to 2 year colleges or technical schools in the U.S. The govt. subsidizes education for Unilag and other federal universities yet the student still pay, so you cannot call something free and still require payment. If you noticed the bane of my argument, higher tuition does not necessarily correlate with higher quality education, the post I responded to mentioned free education will lead to inferior graduates which is BLATANTLY FALSE!

AdesegunSanni89:
It is people with your kind of mentality that drag Africa backwards.

What have you invested in Africa to make it better? Defending inferior education at an higher price relative to the income of the people living in it's proximity is ridiculous and shallow minded, talk about backwardness!

jade14:
which is the cheapest public school here ( I think uniben which is 14k) go and find any good uni outside thats on par with uniben and tell me if its cheap compared to uniben..

you think schools are cheap outside majority of Americans go to uni tru scholarships, grants.... make them no deceive you

Who said schools were cheap outside? The argument here is that top education is expensive which is a fallacy! 90% of ivy league schools are expensive because of reputation and networking not necessarily their advance curriculum. I can bet my last penny that the curriculum at Georgia Tech is just as advanced as Harvard or Princeton but if you wan to be a future politician or someone great then you must attend ivy league school. Please tell me what graduates are getting by graduating from Babcock or Unilag nowadays?

AdesegunSanni89:
You are a joke. So Nigerian Universities should continue to be mediocre by staying cheap? Those of you praising George Weah are free to relocate to Liberia and enjoy the free education. Let us see whether you will have anything to show after wasting your time there. Goerge Weah just took a horrible decision.

You're not making sense, no one is saying top schools must be cheap but if you think the higher the cost of education, the more quality then you are delusional! George Weah did what was best for his people, it might not wok in Nigeria but at least he did something!

jade14:
your the gullible here,
do you know what it takes to run a university??
go and confirm about the top ivy league schools in America and come tell me its cheap,

you guys would just be running your mouth as if you more enlightened


nonsense

Hahaha....So top ivy league schools are comparable to Nigerian universities? This is comedy . The best universities in Nigeria are on par with some of the lowest ranked universities in the USA, come on now let's not expose ourselves here o