₦airaland Forum

princfred:
Agreed to the last part.

Someone may have the goodwill but without education will still very likely fail woefully. Education gives men the mental capacity and knowledge to go about executing goodwill. An illiterate with good will cant still prescribe the right drugs to cure illness. Education is always impotant. Maybe you guys have not interacted enough with illiterates.

This is why it is required that they graduate secondary school and obtain WAEC/NECO. Anything beyond that is a farce because the position does not require complex mathematical calculations, expert linguistic analyis or the ability to write chemical formulas. In fact the president is less important than the people who make up his cabinet. In this part of the world we focus more on formal education while some of the most advanced societies had leaders with mental experience rather than high achievements through formal education. Mandela, George Washington, Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln to name a few. Ph.D or just ordinary WAEC, all I want is someone with a good heart and the courage to implement th goodwill in the face of heavy opposition.

princfred:
Who is doubting they aint greedy? The matter that there is a huge diffetence between an educated person and illiterate mentally unless for the ones here who went to school and dont know who can be classified as,not educated, but highly schooled illiterates.

You're still missing the point, education is less important than having a politician willing to do the right things, a politician/leader with a big heart and fear of God is what Nigerians need. All these distractions over certificates is just comedy, everyone is corrupt, everything we do is corrupt in this zoo, no damn difference between the educated ones and the illiterate ones. Everyone is mentally enslaved to corruption.

princfred:
How ridiculois just to favour any dullard from the north and you expect the country to improve. And to not even have that, how does that qualify you?

Of what good did having a Ph.D holder from the South do the nation? I'm telling you all of them are corrupt, educated or illiterate, they are all GREEDY!

princfred:
Since thats the case, if a surgeon does a bad job, then an illiterate not another surgeon should handle a case. Afterall education is useless. Why not we close all education institute since afterall dullards can do just as much as education is useless.

To become a surgeon you need to have a certain number of educational qualifications, to become president of Nigeria you only need to complete high school and have WAEC/NECO.... stop comparing apples with oranges!

NairaMaster1:
What's this one saying?

Cry me a river.

Cry for wetin? Just trying to educate you on how it works here in the U.S....lol

princfred:
When next you are sick go look for a nice upright illiterate to prescribe drugs for you. Or send your kids to even primary school where the teachers have no WAEC. I guess nigeria is now heaven with the dullard. WaEC isnot a show of competence but lack of it is definetly. If that is beyond then you dont even kniw the difference vetween you and ab illiterat and you should duly regard yourself as one.

You are comparing apples with oranges? Can someone become a doctor without knowledge in a particular medical field? What is the educational requirement to become a president in Nigeria? School Cert! The point is we've seen no difference between a Ph.D holder and a supposedly WAEC cert. holder. All of them are corrupt hence education is irrelevant!

princfred:
You an educated man comfortable to be led by a man with questionable WAEC. That means you dont even know what value your education has bestowed on you wish the man without WAEC inevitably lacks. Shame!

Nigeria was led by a man with Ph.D and it was hell, maybe it's time we focus less on educational achievements and more on character and morality?

NairaMaster1:
You think you're intelligent?
You people told us he enrolled into the college with WAEC now you're giving a zombified interpretation of a VERY clear evident memo.

You even told us before that he had masters from the war college, but here we were to the college started masters in the year 2000.

In the U.S, undergraduate refers to associate or bachelors degrees while graduate refers to Maters and above. WAEC would not fall into any of these categories as it is just a common high school diploma or GED. The minimum requirement is usually a high school certificate to enter any professional course.

We like to hype mediocrity in this country...lol.

Laju1234:
What you said above is actually not in line with your previous comment.

Perhaps I misunderstood.

I'm glad you know how these things work though.

Yea it was my fault, I was not concise....no biggie

Laju1234:
70 floors? Escalator? Nobody will use an escalator to span 70 floors. A lift or elevator will be used rather.
I'm not supporting the OP. Just letting you know

See my reply above...lol

Observer007:
You know what? Yours is perhaps the dumbest response, no offence intended. But I felt you needed it for calling someone dumb.

Reason: An ESCALATOR is different from an ELEVATOR (aka lift).

Next time do some research before attacking people and calling them dumb.

I can excuse your ignorance because I might have misled you a little. Where I work, we have escalators moving you to various levels before you board the elevator due to security protocol. For example, majority of employees only have access to floor 1-22, floor 23-45 are for priviledged access users and 45 beyond are for executives. No single elevator can tak you from ground floor to the 60th floor, you have to connect. There are many places here in the U.S where such security protocols are implemented such as the airport, empire state building and so on.

Delivar:
Hold on to your belief and let me hold on to mine or else this conversation will last till enternity. Cheers

Now you're talking....cheers!

Delivar:
But you said Nigerians are lacking patriotism. Isn't it?

And you said they are patriots, which is funny considering we've yet to have a true revolution in this country. It's also funny because all it took was a small threat for people like 2face to abandon a protest....Patriots my foot!

Delivar:
You have started another China comparison but if I use it against you you will start saying comparisons are not right because the two countries are different in size, population and culture

[b]For your information, the patriotism and loss of hope you are mentioning is NOT the problem because majority of Nigerians are patriots and hopeful. [/b]The only people who have lost hope and patriotism are mainly Igbos because they have been calling for separation. The population of Igbos who have lost hope and calling for separation are a minority which is not sufficient to say Nigerians are not patriots. The rest of Nigerians who are not calling for secession are indeed patriots and hopeful or else they would be asking for secession too. They only want their leaders do things right but unfortunately Nigerian leaders are still part of the UNEDUCATED masses with the WRONG MINDSET which is why the leaders are incompetent.

Whether you like it or not, EDUCATION is the key.

Based on the bold part of your statement, I think it's fair to say we've reached the end of this little debate. Majority of Nigerians are patriots....lol. Get some rest my friend

Delivar:
Are you saying if someone says "there is no significant" it means the same as "there is nothing" ?



Of course patriotism occurs naturally. But your statement above says patriotism is lacking and you said the issue is how to restore the patriotism. How else do you think patriotism can be restored other than EDUCATING the masses by convincing them there is HOPE ahead? And also explaining to the masses how they should conduct themselves to achieve a bright future. To restore the patriotism you think is lost the masses must have KNOWLEDGE of the promising future ahead. This is all EDUCATION.

The above statement of yours also means Nigeria is not developing good enough because patriotism is what is lacking. Now you are saying with sustained development patriotism will be restored. How can there be sustained development when you already believe there will be be no sustained or sufficient development since patriotism is lacking in Nigeria? See how you are confusing yourself because you don't know what you are saying.

Ask yourself how did China develop rapidly in the last 2 decaades? Is it by educating the masses or by having a strong leader surrounded by even stronger cabinet? Trying to instill patriotism in the masses is completely different from having few leaders willing to do anything to better their country. Nigeria is a country that works better when leadership at the top is efficient. It's like a man diagnosed with HIV, you can educate him all you want about how people are beating the disease but if he has no money and just witnessed another person die from the disease, he is not going to believe you! Give the people hope, not thru words but action! A little hope goes a long way my friend, 200 level back in 9ja I was a mess, everything tire me but then 300 dad made me a proposal, graduate with decent grades and you'll come to the U.S., this little hope was all the motivation I needed. Your initial premise that Nigeria is not developed because the people have low I.Q is a fallacy, you'll see just how high the I.Q of the average Nigerian can be if they just restored the faith in a better Nigeria. All it takes is a few good leaders willing to put the interest of the masses above their own, I call it leadership by example.

My years of working in a fortune 50 company taught me valuable lessons about how little education matters when people lack motivation. Leaders must recognize this and focus more on motivation, Nigeria can be great one sector at a time but greed, corruption and lack of patriotism will not allow it. You can try your approach of educating bu you are on a long thing, nobody will listen to your jargon but they'll certainly collect the bag of rice or the 500 Naira being shared. You can tell them how wrong it is to collect those things but as long as they are hungry, your words means NOTHING!

Deckline:
If you were sageous enough to comprehend simple sentences,you would understand what i meant when i said "machines don't work perfectly forever"faults occur,hence the acciedents.

Machine don't work forever because they are not properly maintained, escalators especially require constant maintenance and here in the U.S. they must be inspected at certain intervals. The probability of getting injured from an escalator due to faulty equipment is less than the probability of getting injured while running down the stairs. Please save your rhetoric for those who are not enlightened!

24hoursreporter:
It is very easy to point out a teenager on nairaland. You are definitely one of them. Next time always keep quiet when adults are talking, that is the easiest way to learn

Lol....Empty barrel.

Deckline:
I don't pray you get involved in an escalator acciedent. Its really terrible. No machine can function permanently for too long. Its GOD that guides and guards us.

My friend keep quiet, car accident, house fires are real dangers, yet people continue to build house and buy cars!

One of the dumbest articles ever written. I'm not even going to dignify the writer by debunking all the points but one is so glaring:

The use of escalators...lol

You work in skyscraper wih over 70 floors, your office is at the 68th floor, are you going to climb the stairs? Ridiculous!

Delivar:
When did I say there was no progress at all? Haven't I been saying progress is too slow and insufficient for a 60 years old nation? I am glad you have now STYLISHLY agreed with me that Nigeria's progress has been slow.

You said the issue is how we can make the 200 ethnic groups to unite together and work for the good of the nation. You also said patriotism is what is lacking in Nigeria and not education. Now my question is, how do you think we can make Nigerians become patriots and forget their ethnic differences? Do you think Nigerians will suddenly wake up one day and automatically become patriots? Patriotism is a mindset to be instilled into people's minds. People need to LEARN to be patriots. The process of instilling a mindset and knowledge into people's minds is called EDUCATION. Without EDUCATION Nigerians will NEVER be patriots, therefore education comes first and paramount before citizens become patriotic and the nation starts advancing. Have you now seen the proof that education is the most important element? Have you now realized you don't know what you have been saying all this while?

You said and I quote, "There have been no significant development in Nigeria", I proved your statement wrong hence let's not debate on that anymore! Moving on, were Americans taught to be patriots? What about the Chinese? Patriotism occurs naturally when you know your nation is worth fighting for, this can only come when the people see hope, when they see a future. Take the 93 elections for example, the hope in the nation at that time was at an all-time high, there was genuine love and hope, people came out in masses to vote and everyone was already dreaming of a bright future. Yu don't teach that, it comes naturally with positivity not negativity. My friend just give up, you are not going to use outdated rhetoric to bolster your argument, patriotism is lacking in Nigera because the people do not have hope, with sustained development, hope will be restored, patriots will arise and Nigeria will be greater. You can educate people all you want, if there is no hope, if their dreams are constantly being crushed you'll end up with a worthless society!

Delivar:
I don't quite understand what you were trying to say in the first part in bold. The fact that I mentioned speed doesn't mean I am dismissing quality.

The second part in bold is exactly why I am saying Nigerians needs to be educated by upgrading their mindset. You have provided an example of one of the bad mindsets of Nigerians that needs to be erased, which is the attitude of quick money regardless of how it is gotten whether legal or illegal, and also glorifying wealth. If citizens have this kind of mindset how do you expect the nation to progress? These citizens can easily be bought with money giving us people like Tinubu. Hope you now see what I have been preaching about.

Point 1: You used China as an example of speedy progress and rebuked Nigeria for not developing within similar timeframe. My point all along is that while Nigeria is not progressing at a speedy rate, you cannt deny that we have witnessed some elements of progress in various sectors.

Point 2: How do you wipe away unethical mindset when hunger is the topic of the day? It took the U.S decades to do away with slavery, decades to give women voting rights and more years to inact fair laws which targetted monopolies. My point is that educating the masses is far down the list of things that needs to be done that we should save it for the future. Right now, the topic should be, how we can get 200 different ethnic groups with religious differences to coexist and think of the nation rather than their own selfish interest. Patriotism is what is lacking here in Nigeria not education, putting your country first before you own family is what made countries like the U.S. and China great. When we have true patriots in power, they can set the tone for the entire nation and gradually implement policies that would take care of hunger and poverty while simulteanously wiping out corruption and increasing our ethical knowledge/capacity.

Delivar:
Good question!!

The various ways ideas are impacted on people in Nigeria is the same way changing the mindset of majority of Nigerians can be achieved. Channels such as churches, mosques, schools, the media, social gatherings and even home training are all the tools. Although these mediums are currently being used to influence the mindset of the population positively but unfortunately the effort is not sufficient enough. It needs to be heavily intensified. Schools in Nigeria for instance only focus on educating students to learn English and mathematics. Nigerian schools don't teach ethics and values in any meaningful way that can make an impact. Churches too most times only preach about miraculous prosperity and other irrelevant things that can never make people understand what it requires to improve their standard of living of citizens of a country. I wonder how many times parents discussed with their kids highlighting how tribalism, religious fanaticism, corruption and other vices are idestroying the country. There are currently no mass media outlets wholely dedicated to achieving this objective.

This is not something that can be achieved overnight. Its something that takes many years of constant and intensive effort to achieve. But at the end the results will start taking effect gradually.

Nice one so you admit that it would take years hence the speed of development is not what is important rather than the quality of such developments. Now I put it to you, which is easier? Teaching someone that is hungry and frustrated ethics and morality or teaching the same to someone that is comfortable? Do you wonder why messge of prosperity and hammer hammer songs sell faster in Nigeria than one of ethics? When someone unethical ends up with billions and someone that does the right thing always ends up in abject poverty, who do you think the younger ones would look up to? Like I said Nigeria's problem is way more complex than theoretical analysis, the practical aspect requires nothing short of a miracle!

Delivar:
If you insist the age of a nation plays a significant role in its rate of development then that's your own opinion and you can stick with it. I wouldn't mention the age issue anymore.

Concerning the aspect of education, I clearly see your PROBLEM is that you are having a wrong impression of education to mean all about having university degrees. The education I keep mentioning here repeatedly is all more about the MINDSET AND ORIENTATION of an individual. This is the kind of education vital to human development. Having a pH.d or B.sc definitely doesn't reduce corruption and greed, BUT having the right MINDSET is what reduces corruption as well as setting citizens of a country on the part of development. The kind of mindset Nigerians have is not the type that would make the nation succeed. Before any meaningful development takes place the mindset of Nigerians will have to be modernized to overome certain internal challenges like tribalism and religious fanaticism that hinders development. Yes Nigeria's problems are unique but with the right mindset they can be overcomed. If Nigerians were truly educated by having the right mindset, tribalism and religion wouldn't even be an issue during elections as you wrote up there. That's the kind of education I mean and not just getting school degrees

I still insist that educating the population by instilling the right MINDSET is actually going to pave way for a rapid development of the country.

How do you propose to change the mindset of 180 million people? Please let your soolution be realistic and achievable within 60 years for a country like Nigeria.

Delivar:
If your answer is YES that it is possible for a younger nation to develop faster than an older nation then it PROVES a nation's age has no significant influence on the rate of development of a nation at any given timeframe. It's how a nation manages its internal affairs and challenges that determines how fast it can develop and not age. Nation building involves challenges and there are ways to overcome these challenges. If Nigeria is failing to develop significantly it is NOT because the country is "too young" at 60 years. Nigeria is simply failing to manage its internal affairs.

EDUCATION among the population plays a crucial role to provide that knowledge, orientation and mindset required to handle internal issues that prevents a nation from making good progress. Education doesn't mean there will be no corruption or crimes, they will only be drastically reduced and progress boosted in multiple folds.

It's obvious you've not read anything I wrote. Possibiity does not equal certainty hence your analysis is flawed once again. Is it possible for me to start a business and succeed immediately, yes of course; does this mean that businesses built upon years of solid foundation are irrelevant or doing it wrong, NOPE! My friend, you obviously haven't been involved in much advance debates or scholarly research. Your premise is full of holes and I can pick them apart so easily.

Age of a country plays a role in it's development but it is no the only factor. Speed of development is important but not more important than maintaining such developments. China, U.S., Japan and many others are products of sustained development, if a country like Ghana suddenly prospers overnight, it does not take away from their achievements. Nigeria should be judged based on it's history, population and resources not compared to a country like China. In as much as the educated people we have in power are still bound by corruption, greed and plain evil, your theory on education holds no water. Education will not reduce corruption, getting a Ph.D or being exposed to world cultures will not replace the evil in one's heart. There is a reason why certain countries implemented jail terms for corruption and others choosing to ignore it, unfortunately the reason is not education!

Nobody said Nigeria was too young to be developed rather what I'm saying is that failure to develop significantly at aage 60 should not be looked at as complete failure. Even if it takes 200 years, what matters is movement in the right direction, automatically educating everyone and hoping that will reduce corruption is a FANTASY! What we should be campaigning for is more younger, reasonable candidates that appeal to the masses. An educated youngster that does not know how to gather votes from market women, meat sellers and so on is doomed! An educated candidate that won't take into account the religious and ethnic differences in each region is also doomed! Nigeria's problems are so unique that no other country in the world has the same problems and progressed significantly, if you doubt me then can you show me a country with over 200 ethnic groups and religious indifferences which has managed to move away from 3rd world country status?

Only one solution exist to fully rectify our problems and that is complete and unbias separation! Let the North be on their own, the Southwest on its own and the SS/SW on its own. Without this, we can only continue to try and try, maybe one day we'll succeed....lol

OldBeer:
Who is stopping him from being an armed robber?
Let him join gang so they can kill him at once.

Don't worry, send me your address so that when he joins, he can pay you a visit....lol

Ogaga87:

If inspector general sees your comment, he'll tell you it's part of anti corruption war

Anti-corruption war that cannot stop them from collecting 20 or 50 Naira from danfo drivers....lol

Delivar:
Let me ask this simple question:
Is it possible for a nation to be 20 years old but developing faster than Nigeria that is 60 years old? YES or NO?

Yes but to compare such a nation to Nigeria without considering variables such as size, population and so on is not very bright!

You pay police less than 50k per month and expect them to act like normal human beings. you expect them not to take bribes, you expect them to head into gun battles with criminals.....lol. You pay your gateman 20k per month and expect him to provide adequate security, you pay your driver 30k per month and expect him to drive sensibly and not compromise your safety. We've all forgotten these people are human beings not robots, they face depression, stigma and other ailments throughout their lives. A police person getting drunk should definitely be suspended or fired but perhaps a more sensible decision would be suspension until successful completion of rehab? I mean you fired a police officer barely struggling to wake up in the morning, what preventts him from using his training and becoming a notorious armed robber?

Delivar:
First of all you got me wrong by saying I am PRAISING China for getting it right eventually. I have repeatedly told you that my emphasis all these while is the SPEED OF DEVELOPMENT over a certain timeframe and not just getting right. I referenced China's ability to progress rapidly in 40 years. I then asked why it isn't possible for Nigeria to progress at that rate too. Unfortunately, you dragged the conversation to national history of imperialism, colonization and all that which I repeatedly said is irrelevant when talking about speed of development over a selected time span.

The fact that it took United States 240 years or took China 2000 years DOES NOT mean it must take Nigeria 3000 years. America actually started progressing rapidly and getting things right starting from independence in 1776. Why can't Nigeria do the same? Must it take us 5000 years? If it took China 2000 years to find their feet then that is VERY BAD and Nigeria SHOULD NOT follow the same part. Some nations started building up rapidly starting from day one so Nigeria has no excuse for not making great positive steps towards development for the past 60 years. My point is that the progress the nation has made since 60 years is TOO POOR over such number of years. This is my point on the matter, even though you have deviated it from the education issue I raised in my first post which you disagreed.

Are you trying lecture me about American history now?....lol. America's progress from 1776 to 1836(60 years) was very modest, in fact not until after the Louisiana purchase did things really start to pick up. You are still confusing yourself, speed of development cannot ignore a country's age. Speed of development cannot ignore the variance between nations. Just because something works in China or the U.S. does not men it will work in Nigeria or Zimbabwe. Your premise is flawed as you started with low IQ is responsible for the poor rate of development in Nigeria which is a FALLACY! I agree the progress made is poor but this does not mean there have beeen no meaningful progress since 1960, this does not mean you can educate all the masses and expect a more advanced society afterwards. Greed, corruption and human errors also plays a major part, some of the most educated people in the world are also the most destructive or ignorant. You have yet to show me 10% of the previously colonized nation that developed more rapidly than Nigeria, your analysis was not based on a fair comparison rather you compared Nigeria with China, a nation with a much longer history and vast human resources. You compare a nation of 180 million with that of over 1 Billion, you compare a nation where the people operate as one with a nation of multiple ethnic tribes with several conflicts. Your comparison is simply FLAWED!

Delivar:
So being able to survive anywhere is your proof that Nigerians are not lacking education? Listen to yourself bro

You still repackaging and recycling the same points I have already treated previously.

I never discounted China's imperial rule and gave credence to Nigeria's military rule as you put it up there. What happened was you used colonialism and military rule as an excuse for Nigeria's underdevelopment, then I had to tell you that national history of colonialism, military rule or imperialism is not an excuse for underdevelopment. Nothing stops China or Nigeria from getting it right from day one of existence.

Yet China didn't get it right on day 1 or day 1000 or day 10,000. So what's your point? The same China that didn't get it right for so long is now getting your praise for getting it right after centuries of underdevelopment; yet you rebuke Nigeria, is this not hypocrisy? In as much as countries like China and the U.S took their sweet time to deveop properly, I refuse to succumb to your failed nation theory, yes Nigeria is underachieving and a lot more could be done but if you think it is way worse than what some of these developed countries went through then you are operating on failed logic. There's no need for anymore argument, you used China to counter my argument and I showed you how flawed your praise on China really is, no need to keep going in circles!

Delivar:
The first part in bold shows you have now understood that Nigeria is going no where close to development as long as the masses remain uneducated. That was what my very first comment at the beginning was all about. I said rogues like Tinubu will have no power in Nigeria if the masses were well educated and you dismissed it saying elections are all about "power of persuasion".

Nobody is saying leadership at the top is not paramount, I only said it's not the only requirement for successful long term nation building. Stop twisting my response.

Who says Rome was built in a day? You keep going off point, twisting my responses and driving this conversations to the wrong direction. Rome was not built in a day, BUT all Romes must not be built within the same time span. This is the cardinal point I have been trying to make. Your earlier said it took the U.S 240 years to develop and Nigeria is just 60 years. Every country must not take 240 years to develop. A country can take 40 years to develop while another country can take 1000 years to develop. This means the age of a country has nothing to do with how fast it can develop. The rate of development is a function of POLICIES in place not age of a nation.

Of what use is your "Nigerian sharpness" when Nigerians can't improve their lives with it? The main thing here is quality of life. As long as the standard of living of the average American or Japanese is way above that of Nigerians the "Nigerian sharpness" counts a nothing.

There is no need talking about the $2 poverty baseline thing. Nigerians are poor because the quality of life is poor and many Nigerians can't afford the basic things to live comfortably. It has nothing to do with $2 or $1,000,000.

Arguing wiith you is like moving in circles. First you started off with Nigeria is not developed because most of the people have low IQ, I refuted that with analysis which shows majority of Nigerians are able to survive anywhere and that the average nigerian is not dumber than the average American. I gave you several areas where Nigeria has shown some developents and how it compared to the U.S. early history. You went on to use China as an example of fast development, I debunked your analysis by showing you that China had 2000 years of imperial rule to build their foundation, you discounted that by saying their ancestrial history does not matter yet you give credence to Nigeria's militry rule and how it should have been used to develop the nation, you said age has nothing to do with a nation's deveopment but you have yet to show me a developed nation with the population similar to Nigeria that developed without going through hardship, one nation that developed with little to no history. My friend you have no point, your analysis is flawed and your comparison is one sided. You cannot successfully defend your point so you argue blindly. Like I said earlier research more into these issues and stop using failed rhetoric, SEEK TRUE ENLIGHTENMENT!