₦airaland Forum

enohj2ee:
YES WE HAVE INDIANS WORKING WITH US, WE EVEN HAVE DEVELOPMENT CENTER THERE TOO, BUT THE BRAIN IS THE NIGERIANS GUYS WITH ME. WE HAVE ALOT OF SOLUTIONS

I have a problem with the statement above too.

Software is either locally developed or foreign. Are these software solutions locally developed by Nigerians?

The answer to this question will help clear the issue.

@merit tool,

I believe that with all the skill set you have posted it should be expected for you to have a website (personal or business) where you can properly showcase your work or skills.

By the way, for the IVR what gateway have you used to interface and how many ports have you developed for?

Can you develop an application from scratch and deliver in just 2 days if there is a serious need to do so under minimal supervision if you have 100% down payment?

dammytosh:
@Seun
Pirated foreign packages or "open source" can not stop local softwares because most of this softwares can not be adapted to meet 100% needs of some organizations. e.g I have replaced Peach-Tree accounting packages in 2 organizations. (because it is either doing too much or not addressing their particular need)

The content in bold refers, even though many people do not know this a lot of companies are desperate to lay their hands on software that are best or well suited for their business processes as against the many off the shelf solutions they find in the market.

The market is huge for locally developed software but again there is a problem - some Nigerian developers have disappointed companies in the past and stories like these spread fast and these companies are just naturally being scared to lose more money.

Nigerian developers should acquire relevant skills and apply them without shattering their credibilities in the process of making money.

I was asked to develop a software for an oil servicing firm that has already bought and/or tested some foreign software solutions for the business need and the company was happy with the solution as every single requirement we agreed upon was met as against unlimited tweaking and rewriting of developed software that usually takes time and in the end may not do what the owner wants it to do.

This issue is one where perception is farthest from reality because even though people think locally developed software are not making money some are doing so. Unless of course, you are looking at seeing the software at Otigba.

prodgalson:
Haba, am I the only one that feels some pride about this?

No, you are not alone. Great work.

But some have expressed reservations about the draw on the battery and when using a handheld battery power is something people do not toy with.

I guess the guy needs to take into consideration comments like that to make the application easy on the power requirements.

blacksta:
Yes i still believe - a lot old generation internet users still have a hotmail accounts and at the same time have other email accounts . for example almost everybody uses msn mensenger

Almost everybody uses msn messenger?

Where do you get these ideas from? For a technical person I expect you to back up some of these claims with facts or some research.

Because a company claims to be the leading, award winning, best, foremost etc doesn't mean that the company is telling the truth.

Hotmail the no 1 web based email program?

Meanwhile, the issue of broadband internet access cannot be a valid reason because majority of these companies developed software and solutions when broadband was almost non existent.

blacksta:
This one cant be salavaged . we need a fast internet and constant electricity

An inverter backup system can help you with steady electricity.

Any 3G internet connection is fair enough for most of the tasks that would require internet access. At roughly N300.00 a day (for 24hrs access) I believe it is fair enough for any serious minded person.

I hope that the clowns that continued to spread the lies and falsehood about $10B, $13B, $16B etc are exposed and jailed.

I had maintained from day 1 that even the committee members knew next to nothing about EPC contracts with the out of this world conclusions they drew from their site visits.

Today we are talking about a little over $3B spent.

OBJ in spite of his mistakes remains the most committed Nigerian leader when it comes to solving our problems especially the electricity problem.

The media can be used to poison the minds of people, it is sad that close to 2 years Nigerians are beginning to see through the lies of invisible powerful men who are bent on destroying the NIPP initiative that should have greatly improved the state of power supply if they were tackled properly since Yar'adua came to power.

How much?

Have you built one yourself that you are probably using or sold to an individual or company that is working well?

If yes, where can one see a working version of what you want to teach?

I tried to modify a post due to typos and could not find the modify link that ought to be visible to post/content owners.

What on earth could be the reason for this?

handyx:
dis guy and afam i dont have to argue wit you. its very obvious that u two dont buy the idea. just wait and see.

Thanks for understanding that arguing this matter won't make sense. Wait and see what?

handyx:
ITAN are already working with us now!

Even if Obama and the owners of Google, Yahoo and Facebook begin to work with you on this issue without any tangible or reasonable demonstrable projects that shows that indeed our developers are not just pretending or claiming to be developers trust me there is nothing to look forward to.

I sincerely wish you good luck in this association thing.

Where are the applications that Nigerian developers are developing? Are they hidden in cupboards or what?

IG:
good work there. But the slogan "strictly for Nigerians" gives the impression that
non-Nigerians are not welcomed on the site. Or is that intentional ?

The "Strictly for Nigerians" slogan is intentional because it's main focus is to provide information and services that are relevant to Nigerians whether living within or outside the country. However, those within would most likely benefit more.

It is clear there is still work to do as I have received via personal emails quite a number of useful pointers and suggestions which I would integrate/implement within the week.

I may have 2 versions of the same site to make comparison easier for end users.

Thanks for your time.

sleek_p:
George Bush will be remembered in history as the president who invaded a sovereign nation to steal oil.

And no one is even trying him for crimes against humanity, imagine!

We have repeatedly condemned the killing of civilians especially innocent women and children by Israelis anytime they attack Palestinian lands.

Soem of us have absolved Israel and ignorantly maintained that they do all they can to avoid civilian casualties.

Well, who can argue with facts? Facts don't change, truth don't lie.

Read on and see what human beings are supporting all in the name of foolishly equating support for Israel regardless of what it does to being a good Christian.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Soldiers' accounts of Gaza killings raise furor in Israel

By Ethan Bronner Published: March 19, 2009


JERUSALEM: In the two months since Israel ended its military assault on Gaza, Palestinians and international rights groups have accused it of excessive force and wanton killing in that operation, but the Israeli military has said it followed high ethical standards and took great care to avoid civilian casualties.

Now testimony is emerging from within the ranks of soldiers and officers alleging a permissive attitude toward the killing of civilians and wanton destruction of property that is sure to inflame the domestic and international debate about the army's conduct in Gaza. On Thursday, the military's chief advocate general ordered an investigation into a soldier's account of a sniper killing a woman and her two children who walked too close to a designated no-go area by mistake, and another account of a sharpshooter who killed an elderly woman who came within 100 yards of a commandeered house.

When asked why that elderly woman was killed, a squad commander was quoted as saying: "What's great about Gaza — you see a person on a path, he doesn't have to be armed, you can simply shoot him. In our case it was an old woman on whom I did not see any weapon when I looked. The order was to take down the person, this woman, the minute you see her. There are always warnings, there is always the saying, 'Maybe he's a terrorist.' What I felt was, there was a lot of thirst for blood."

The testimonies by soldiers, leaked to the newspapers Maariv and Haaretz, appeared in a journal published by a military preparatory course at the Oranim Academic College in the northern town of Tivon. The newspapers promised to release more such anecdotal accounts on Friday, without saying how many.

The academy's director, Dany Zamir, told Israel Radio, "Those were very harsh testimonies about unjustified shooting of civilians and destruction of property that conveyed an atmosphere in which one feels entitled to use unrestricted force against Palestinians."

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Defense Minister Ehud Barak told Israel Radio that he believed such incidents to be exceptions, adding, "The Israeli Army is the most moral in the world, and I know what I'm talking about because I know what took place in the former Yugoslavia, in Iraq."

It was clear that Mr. Zamir felt that his concerns, which he had raised earlier in a letter to the military chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi, had not been taken seriously and that was why he published the testimonies.

Since the war ended, others have raised similar questions, generating a heated debate within military circles.

"According to the code, a soldier has to do his utmost to avoid civilian casualties and that involves taking some risk," said Moshe Halbertal, a Jewish philosophy professor at Hebrew University who, along with three others, rewrote the military ethics code eight years ago. "That is the question we have to struggle with. From the testimonies of these soldiers, it sounds like they didn't practice this norm."

Amir Marmor, a 33-year-old history graduate student in Jerusalem and a military reservist, said in an interview with The New York Times that he was stunned to discover the way civilian casualties were discussed in training discussions before his tank unit entered Gaza in January. "Shoot and don't worry about the consequences," was the message from the top commanders, he said. Speaking of a lieutenant colonel who briefed the troops, Mr. Marmor said, "His whole demeanor was extremely gung ho. This is very, very different from my usual experience. I have been doing reserve duty for 12 years, and it was always an issue how to avoid causing civilian injuries. He said in this operation we are not taking any chances. Morality aside, we have to do our job. We will cry about it later."

Some 1,300 people were killed in the Gaza war, but how many of them were combatants remains a matter of controversy. Israel lost about 10 soldiers in Gaza, some because of fire by its own forces.

The Gaza-based Palestinian Center for Human Rights, which has documented the Gaza deaths, says that about two-thirds of the 1,300 were civilians, among them 121 women and 288 children, which it defines as anyone 18 and younger.

But the Institute for Counter-Terrorism in Israel said Thursday that it had analyzed the Palestinian center's names and found that some that it listed as civilians were identified as combatants on Hamas-related Web sites. Some listed as children were 17-year-olds with guns, it said, adding that more than 500 of those described by the center as civilians it considered "unknowns" because most were men of combat age whose activities could not be easily traced.

It argued that the proportion of women and children among the dead was relatively low, showing that Israel had not killed in an indiscriminate fashion.

Thursday's revelations caused an immediate uproar here, with some soldiers and reservists said they did not recognize the stories being told as accurate.

Gur Rosenblat, a company commander during the Gaza operation, said in an interview: "To say that people were killed without justification — the opposite was true. We put soldiers at risk to prevent harming their civilians."

Israeli experts noted that Palestinian women had served as suicide bombers in the past so that soldiers in Gaza did not always know when a woman was approaching whether she was a threat.

One of the soldiers' testimonies involved the killing of a family. The soldier said: "We had taken over the house, and the family was released and told to go right. A mother and two children got confused and went left. The sniper on the roof wasn't told that this was O.K. and that he shouldn't shoot. You can say he just did what he was told."

Much of what happened in Gaza, some military experts said, was in reaction to the way events unfolded in the second Lebanon war in 2006 when Hezbollah caused many Israeli casualties.

In that war, when Israeli soldiers took over a house, they sometimes found themselves shot from a house next door. The result was that in Gaza, many houses next to those commandeered by troops were destroyed to avoid that risk.

Still, Israeli ethicists say they are troubled by what they have heard.

"Unfortunately, I think that selective use of killing civilians has been very much on the agenda for fighting terror," said Yaron Ezrahi, a political scientist at Hebrew University who has been lecturing at defense colleges. "The army believes that a weak spot of Israeli deterrence is its strong commitment not to kill civilians, and there has grown the sense that it might have to temporarily overcome that weakness in order to restore deterrence."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=

Hello,

If you have time on your hands I would appreciate it if you could spare a little to test a new portal I setup.

It is supposed to provide quite a number of useful services to Nigerians especially those living in Nigeria.

Bugs, errors etc could be sent to afam@ijann.com

The website address is www.ijann.com

Emails could be sent on criticisms or suggestions.

If however, you want the suggestions or criticisms on the forum no wahala.

Enjoy.

Some of us have maintained that OBJ ranks highest when it comes to solving out power problem right from when he first came to power in the late 80's.

Unfortunately, we live in a country where rumors, lies, misinformation and fabricated stories are believed and trusted over facts, logic and common sense.

Even Yar'adua sacked his adviser for trying to correct the lies being told about the power project and supported by the ignorant law makers that clearly didn't understand basic EPC projects based on the embarrassing questions and conclusions they came out with.

There is serious problem in this country and even educated Nigerians are ever ready to swallow the many lies being fed us by the corrupt few in position of authority, what a shame.

Software development is not music.

For the sake of argument let us assume they are the same, are you saying that the music industry developed because they formed an association and not because musicians started singing songs that Nigerians liked and were ready to pay for?

The musicians were easy to notice because people saw their works. Can you say the same thing when it comes to software development in Nigeria?

I am not a politician, I say things the way I see them and try to back them up with basic logic, facts and common sense.

Again I ask - Where are the software projects and web applications that have been developed by Nigerians that would warrant forming an association to protect or promote/project web developers?

michelangelo:
Dear Sir,

Good-day.

I can teach you how to write a computer reservation system, or better still, I can develop one for you and give you the source code.

I need you to send me full details of what you need exactly and I guarantee it will be ready within 3 weeks.

For more details/information, call me on 0703.087.0839 or send me an email on cmdimkpa@gmail.com

Please note that the product cost is N 25,000 (negotiable)

Yours Faithfully,

Mike C. Dimkpa

Mr Mike,

Develop one and I will pay you N25,000.00 for it once it is ok and functional.

The ball is in your court. I will pay you without any delay once you deliver but not before.

Gentlemen,

Let me repeat what I have stated before.

If we have good programmers then they should develop software or applications (web or desktop based) that will solve real problems.

It is unfortunate that we talk more, argue more when we should be using the energy to develop applications that are useful and profitable.

If good projects begin to spring up here and there trust me the cow boys and magicians who claim to be programmers will fizzle out.

As at today there is a lot of confusion because there is an obvious disconnect between what people claim to know or do and what is obtainable.

Forgive me if I sound pessimistic on this but from about 6 years of web development I have seen people come and go and what is usually common with people like that is that they claim to know a lot even when you cannot tie a single reasonable project to their names.

Facebook didn't need an association to become successful, yahoo didn't neither did google or cnn.

Start developing useful programs. Even in the banking industry where the use of software is basically mature we see them pay a lot of money for some solutions that are badly planned or developed mostly by Indians even for basic tasks.

Enjoy the article (from my mailbox) below.

I guess the writer forgot about Iraq in the instances he gave.

Illegally invading a sovereign nation based on manufactured lies by another nation is criminal and wrong.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --

A War Fought in Ignorance
William Pfaff

Paris, February 24, 2009 – In past columns I have asked
without success for an explanation of why the United States
should be at war with the Taliban, a modestly-sized,
violent sectarian Muslim reform movement in Afghanistan
and Pakistan, about which the vast majority of Americans
know next to nothing.

The ignorance is reciprocal, since there probably are even
fewer Taliban who can provide a coherent explanation of
what they have done to the United States that Washington
should now have some 40 thousand troops in Afghanistan,
accompanied by allied forces from Canada, Britain, the
Netherlands and other countries, with another 17 thousand
Marine Corps replacements waiting to ship out from the
United States this spring.

Last weekend the NATO defense ministers’ meeting in Krakow
made the search for replacements to rotate these troops in
Afghanistan and Palestine a major item of discussion, with
little to show for it.

There were a few tentative offers of temporary reinforce-
ments during August, when Afghan national elections are
scheduled, but that was the best they managed to do.

The usual Washington reaction is that this is the result
of European pacifism, good living, and loss of appetite
for war, but they miss the real reason. The allies too
are looking for an explanation as to why Americans and
the NATO governments should be doing this to themselves.

What have the Talibin done to the westerners that the
United States and its allies should now have twice (first
in 2001-2 and again today) sent major air forces to destroy
them, their villages and their forces. In 2002 it was B-52
heavy bombers operating from very high altitude (out of
fear that the Taliban might have Russian ground-air
missiles). Now it is USAF, RAF and other Allied fighter-
bombers reinforced by aircraft carriers in the Arabian
Sea.

The American command knows that, tactically and
politically, aerial bombing is the worst way to do
precision attacks on small ground units, since they
produce high levels of what military-euphemism- speak
calls collateral damage. But they are what the allies
have in the absence of more NATO and U.S. infantry.

However back to the fundamental question. Why are we
doing this? There are two answers, the first of which
is blunt, brutal, and in the Cheney-Pentagon tradition.
They are "bad folks" and "evil."


They provided traditional hospitality to Osama bin Ladin
and al-Qaeda after the Sudan government had put the latter
out of its country under pressure from Saudi Arabia and
Egypt.

The Taliban refused to hand over bin Ladin to the U.S.
as a matter of honor (although there also are reports
that they provided American emissaries with opportunities
to take bin Ladin, which the U.S. failed to do because
it was culturally blind to the signals being given).

Actually there are three answers: the one that westerners
instinctively give is that the Taliban must be made to
let their daughters go to school and marry as they wish,
abandon medieval criminal punishments, and set people
free to say what they think. But no one is forcing the
Afghans and Pakistanis to adopt their deplorable practices.
They are making the choice.

The most important reason for the American war on the
Taliban is that Washington under the Bush administration,
and with the enthusiastic support of certain leaders of
the neo-conservative gang among the Washington think-tank
intellectuals, had decided that America had to destroy what
it named "Islamo-fascism, " and the Taliban were the only
radical Islamic fundamentalist group they knew about. They
were seriously unaware of the difficulties of invading
other countries to stamp out objectionable forms of
religious and cultural practices.

Moreover, the Taliban had resisted the U.S. invasion of
Afghanistan, sent with orders to capture Osama bin-Laden,
but until now unable to do so. So this is a grudge fight,
which President Obama inherits from President Bush.

(In the months leading up to the presidential election last
November, Bush was quoted by a supposed witness as demand-
ing of all his armed forces and intelligence chiefs: "By
November 1st, bring me bin-Ladin's head on a platter!
Whatever the price!" It reads like a Jacobin scene: the
king rending his garments, foam flecking his lips, crying
out: "ten thousand ducats shall be yours, and a Texas
kingdom of your own, my youngest daughter as your queen!".

My own belief is that what is going on is folly.
Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran and India should be asked to a
conference on regional stability, in which the U.S. puts
on the table an offer of complete non-interference in the
internal affairs, including the religious affairs, of any
or all of these countries, unless there is a further
attack on the United States for which any one of them is
responsible.

None have anything to gain from making the United States
its enemy. The U.S. has no wish to have any as an enemy.
The internal political affairs of all, including those of
Pakistan and Afghanistan, and India-Kashmir- Pakistan, are
to be settled (or left unsettled) by themselves, possibly
with international mediation of their own choice.  The
new American administration will deal generously with
every government at peace with its neighbors, believing
that peace is better than war.

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---

And George Bush has not be arrested and tried for all the innocent people he killed in Iraq including an unwarranted illegal invasion of a sovereign nation?

These clowns at the ICC should better get serious as the level of hypocrisy and sycophancy is very high.

afam4eva:
It's good development.They are the best technologically, so, they should e setting the pace.

Who are the they?

UBA?

Interswitch?

The workers?

Microsoft?

The people of Anambra State?

I believe emails are usually stored in databases from where you retrieve them.

You can use forward to an outside email address to forward incoming emails to another email address.

If you are using PHP, the native mail function can send email on any PHP enabled server.

You can also create an insert transaction or operation on your database of choice.

Unless of course you don't know what to do contrary to your claim on your last post there is no issue here that cannot be sorted out easily.

oreshade:
@ AFAM
Kind of wondering where you've been all this while, miss your intellectual comments and posts on Nigerian and international politics, as to the post I kinda agree with you,

I have been around even though extremely busy with a couple of projects, will have more time on my hands soon.

Dede1:
@Poster

Please avoid culling craps from the obscure news outlets and pasting them on this forum. The ill-fated article lacked the elementary analysis and historical comparison between Jerusalem and Belfast.

Obscure new outlets? May be. You don't expect the main stream media to carry such news items because they are mostly being controlled by the same corrupt and highly biased group that support lies and misinformation.

Craps? Well, if you had demonstrated that you understood the meaning of the word then I would have taken time to respond accordingly. But for now keep swimming in the ocean of ignorance.

It beats my imagination silly so see people churn out claims after claims on things they cannot prove and on things they do not understand well.

Quite a number of Indians are into programming but this does not translate into mastery of programming.

Codes written by most programmers from India are poorly documented, even some banking applications (written by them) have avoidable flaws and bugs. Cheap labor is a huge factor in seeing India as a major outsourcing destination, another factor being the fact that English is not a strange language when it comes to communication.

As regards the benefits of going to India to study programming or not I weep for people who believe that going to India to study programming will turn them into good programmers.

For you to be a good programmer you do not need to travel to India or to any country outside Nigeria for that matter.

Knowledge is there for all to acquire, you can pick up a [fat] book as some call it, read it, understand it, practice what you have read and become a good programmer. Of course, for those that don't learn well on their own you can settle for a good training school to guide you but ultimately the main effort that will turn you into a good programmer will come from you and not the school.

If you cannot train your mind to think in a logical manner sorry you cannot be a good programmer. Programming is all about logic and application of any chosen and relevant language to solve real life problems.

Kx:
Afam and blessing/destiny na wah for una 2 0,market ur brand professionally.
u dont need to fight each oda to do dat,do u?
afterall mtn,zain and glo all over same service,yet dey dont fight themselves.
we shud be commending u ppl for "opening" our eyes to noiseless alternatives.

Anyway,i ll ask for practical solutions here.
I need a pure sine inverter for 1tv,dish decoder and 2 fans only,
i need something durable and reliable
Dont bother about solar stuff,and auto charging,just get me something
dependable  to use in between NEPA and gen.

What capacity do i go for and for how much?
Where and when can i come for physical inspection,trial and purchase?
Do i get warranties in d event of poor performance of  ur product?

@Kx,

I will advice you to base your submissions on facts and not how you feel on any issue at any particular point in time.

I have not fought anyone on this forum, correcting misconceptions and misinformation do not amount to fights.

With a lot of areas that need automation and programming that will make life easier, make businesses more efficient, government more transparent and money for the developers or programmers I find it hard to understand why we would rather expend energy on association than walk the talk.

Programmers cannot continue to talk about what they can do, they should start doing so that Nigerians and the world can see the many good things that they have done or are doing.

With a massive population, untapped market and many business processes begging for attention we cannot afford to engage in an association that may most likely be used to fight for contracts, seek power or play politics.

Things will evolve on its own, for now, let us get to work and deliver useful applications to those that need them.

Jaylon:
I didn't ask who was the brain behind GSM, I said how many lines were there in 1999 compared to 2007 ?
OBJ's administration created the largest amount of phone lines in the history of Nigeria

Thanks for taking time to respond to many disjointed and unwarranted comments by Fhemmmy.

OBJ performed far better than IBB and only myopic and heavily biased Nigerians think otherwise.

nitation:
PHP was built with one thing in mind - to design web apps

Why am I finding it so hard to accept the above statement Maybe because it's not 100% correct! What about the fact that says PHP can handle exe applications?? hmmm

-> Ya-wa-ti-de Do you think am wrong?

My 2-cent

Do you really understand the meaning of web applications?

If yes, do you know anything about the primary goal of PHP and why it has remained the most popular web programming language?

If no, then no vex, sorry for disturbing your quiet.

EZEKWIBE:
While some of the questions might be valid, would you also agree with me that it could be solicited in a civilized manner, or one could find oneself trading insults with Area boys,  am not really here for that. Though I 've not been on this forum for long, but I can see the forum is stingy in terms of rational thinking people. I always  appreciate a state of mutual harmony, friendship, and respect. You do understand that even if I gave out all the information's from the unset people would still behave the way they do, you cant change the fact that people's attitude sometimes affects their behaviour which is always save not to allow it affect your sensibility.

Thanks for your post. However, I still believe that you do not sound convincing at all based on the description and comments thus far. Things like mixture of electricity and wind in reality don't make sense without explaining what you have done (or planned to do).

We build inverters locally, my office has been without generator for 5 years now and we have built and installed for Nigerians in different parts of Nigeria.

Because these inverters are locally built (buying basic components) they are not as fine as those that come from automated manufacturing processes but they are very rugged, reliable and even more expensive.

People have seen it, people are using it.

So, the picture of this bike is certainly not enough to convince anyone that it was indeed built by you.

EZEKWIBE:
Hear are some few  information's on the bike, It runs on mixture of electricity and wind, the only petroleum product on the bike is grease and when in motion it could get up to 160 kilometers per hour, though am working on increasing the speed. The battery life is not much,  approximately 3 hours,  am  already working on a system that would make it possible  for current to be returned to recharge the battery as long as is in motion. This command  would be carried out  by series of census which informs the system that the battery is going down and then would trigger recharging process, wont be going further here. In the finished state of it,  when attached to the bike, the 3  hours battery life it has now {which it uses in moving} would continue to regenerate as long as it is in motion, or as  long it is on. In the long run you would only need to recharge it externally when you've not used it for few days.

Have you used this bike and tested the 160 kilometers per hour or are you saying this based on calculations on paper? This battery, do you remove it, take it to the battery charger to recharge or what? Any charge controller? How do you harness wind power?

What is the capacity of the battery? What voltage? What ampere hour?

If Nigerians cannot see this and you cannot provide information that can be verified on your claims and comments I am afraid that you will not get the type of responses that you expect.

Enjoy and take care.

alexis:
PHP was built with one thing in mind - to design web apps and web apps are going to be around for a very long time.

Tell them.