₦airaland Forum

andrewza:
Russia's Defense Ministry has said it is planning to procure between 45 and 67 Mi-28Ns, and to fully replace the Mi-24 Hind helicopters with Mi-28Ns in the Armed Forces by 2015.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20130810/182683983.html#ixzz3Z1VD78TO

Russia has not replaced over 300 Hinds today 2015.

andrewza:
the 35 means export model Russia best hind is the mi24pn and there best attack chopper is the mi28. You using something the owner is trying to phase out of serves.

The Hind E is actually a new Russian variant and Brazil is buying it in 2014....only you think it's being phased out...Brazil is your friend, why did they not buy Rooivalk instead of Hind E ?

The only helicopter being phased out is Rooivalk....DENEL is already dreaming Mk2....the current SAAF is obsolete...DENEL proved me right !
.

andrewza:
this is like when Agaugust mocked the rooivalk for having a fixed landing gear while not knowing Russia was busy modifying there hinds to have a fixed landing gear.

Many modern Hinds have retractable landing gear. Variations do occur in producing variants. The Hind E landing gear was not made retractable to save weight and allow more payload.

jln115:
Hopefully if all goes according to plan, the Rooivalk MK2 might knock the Apache of the top!!

It does NOT exist...Rooivalk Mk 2 is a dream with no hope

MikeCZAR:
A reporter is not a pilot nor a soldier.

Range of canon: 5km+
Rockets: 6km.
Anti-tank missile: 10km.
Air to air missile: 6kmm

SAAF Rooivalk has no anti-tank or air to air missiles

Rooivalk gun range is 2 km

MikeCZAR:
Dual feed and high velocity.

Nigerian hinds don't carry pods so
.

Nigerian Hinds carry at least 12.7 mm x 4 and the 23 mm x 2 cannon options. Gun options is a major advantage Hind has over Rooivalk.

andrewza:
so then why does SA get 1600ms+ from a 76mm?

in fact the 30mm 2A42 can all so get velocity over 1000ms o look it Russian and in use on there proper attack chopper the mi28
The Mi-28N is to replace the Mi-24 Hind in the Russian Armed Forces by 2015.[20]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-28

so the next Russian attack chopper uses a single barrel duel feed auto cannon. What other attack choppers do that I wonder?


The top armour most AFV will either stop a 30mm round all fall victim to the high velocity 20mm round. with a 20mm you can carry more ammo 250 for the mi28 vs 700 for the rooivalk.


congrats the hind can mount a bunch of fixed forward facing guns and do straight line gun runs. why would we want to do that, we got rocks for that. Any case the apache has 1200 rounds of 30mm ammo.

I stated a general principle for cannon. Compare muzzle velocity of tank 105 mm gun and IFV 30 mm gun. Anybody can decide to build a supr rapid kinda 76 mm gun with higher speed.

Most IFV have better frontal armour, their roof behind turret is weak armour....most IFVs cannot survive 30 mm shells anywhere on their structure, there is no part of a Ratel or new Badger IFV that can survive 30 mm cannon shells from a Hind helicopter
.

The Hind is a true gunship, one Hind can carry one 4 barrel 12.7mm on nose, and two double barrel 30mm on each wing....or pintle mounted 14.5mm heavy machine guns....that's a mass killer in any battle field.

andrewza:
http://www.guncopter.com/super-hind/

Super Hind Mk 3 - adds the core avionics systems together with a dual-feed, turreted, 20mm cannon

You are running away from my simple question, out of 2,500 Hinds, how many Super Hinds exist?

andrewza:
you do know what that means right? the 35 means it is the export model fitted out for day night operations. the best Russian verstion of the mi24 is the mi24pn you don't have those.

The best Russian Hind is the M-35M Hind E....SIPRI confirms Nigeria has many of those, best tech 2014 models
.

jln115:
Oh...OK so the Rooivalk :
Has a Much Much Higher Hover , 3X higher in fact.
250km higher range(Internal fuel),and 300km higher range with Aux fuel tanks.
Has stealth design.
Much higher service ceiling, higher by 2,5km in fact.
Much lower vibration levels.
Much better EW suit.
Much better targeting systems.

But ja.......The MI 24/35 is better!!

Rooivalk stealth what ? Invisible to radar ? Naaa, it is a normal simple metal helicopter, DENEL marketing gimmick does not fool Nigerians, a 1960 era old radar will detect Rooivalk from 100 km away.

Mi-24/25 Hind has :

1. Mutli-role....Attack, Assault, Transport, Medevac, Reconaissance,

2. Superior weapons options including iron bombs and laser guided bombs

3. Better rockets with longer range and bigger warhead options including 130 mm

4. More powerful cannon and options, from 12.7 mm to 30 mm calibre guns and 4 to 6 barrels on wings and nose

5. Newer avionics suite, TV, FLIR, etc

6. Reduced heat signature

7. Advanced targeting systems and self defence.

Yap....Mi-35 Hind beats the Rooivalk hands down...yea yea men !
.

MikeCZAR:
Dual feed and High velocity.

Gun pods are no magic the Rooivalk fuel tanks can used to develop those, the Tiger uses gun pods.

The Hind is no close to dedicated attack helicopters like the Apache, Tiger, Rooivalk, A129 and mor

Sales don't indicate how good a weapon is.

Dual feed on same 20 mm gun is still 20 mm calibre

Rooivalk does NOT carry gun pods, option NOT built.

30 global wars for the Hind.....most battle tested in the world....Apache, Tiger, Rooivalk, A129, and more DO NOT EVEN COME CLOSE !
.

jln115:
The Algerian SuperHinds use Denels 20mm gun.

How many units are those Algerian?....there are over 2,500 Hinds in this world.

jln115:
UHM.......Do you even bother reading sources? which source stated it only had a 2km Range!!!

Those weblink sources say nothing about gun range.

My source of 2 km is your own boasting video of SAAF pilot and his journalist...2km range of Rooivalk gun.

Except you want us to dismiss the whole of your video as a SCAM and FRAUD filled with FALSE information

Sweet suicide my brother !

jln115:
Almost Every thing you want to know about the Rooivalk are shown in these tow sources, the onus is now on you to prove the MI35 has better systems.

http://www.aircraft.co.za/Encyclopedia/D/459.php
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/rooivalk/

The Mi-24/35 Hind is better than the Rooivalk

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/mi-24.htm

.

jln115:
He could mean more too, and how do you know he asked the Pilot for info?

Now show us citation that the rooivalk cannon is only 2kms.

Your boasting video is the citation, you already gave us a source....Rooivalk gun has ONLY about 2 km range.

Thanks for the suicide bra

andrewza:
With a single barrel you can achieve duel feeding allowing a on the fly switch between AP or HE rounds. All so the F2 as a muzzel velocty over 1000ms far faster than the guns of the Mi24.

Muzzle velocity decreases with calibre size, a 30 mm gun will have less ammo speed than a 2o mm, that is science.

H.ell, a double 30 mm gun has 3 times the killing power of a 20 mm.....the Mi-35 has 3 times the firepower of Rooivalk.

30 mm gun will penetrate most armoured vehicles using standard shells, the 30 mm gun of the Hind helicopter is the same on Su-25 Frogfoot and that is a powerful jet aircraft in ground attack role.

A Mi-35 Hind can carry two 30 mm x 2 barrel gun pods on wing stub and one 12.7 mm x 4 barrel gun on nose.....even Apache won't do that, talk less of a Rooivalk. Mi-35 is just a killing machine the world cannot refuse....over 2,500 units sold to over 20 countries worldwide. The buyers are not fools.

andrewza:
Haa but what a 20mm, so good many hind users have switched over to using it.

How many Hinds in this world use SA 20 mm gun ? There are over 2,500 Mi-24/35 Hind helicopters, so how may came to South Africa to change to 20 mm gun? Russia, India, Ethiopia, Brazil, Angola.....how many units changed to your type of Rooivalk gun ? You don't know the meaning of the word most? No you don't.

jln115:
I know you see no difference, why do you think I call you r3tarded?

How did you personally see the difference? The video did not show Rooivalk or Hind FLIR and no means of comparing the two technically.

The Ukrainian pilot was not interviewed to hear his own opinion.

Rooivalk is NOT better than Mi-35 just because a South African Rooivalk pilot says so, is he also the pilot who flew the Mi-35 ?

Show me proof of tech/specs/data to prove the Rooivalk can ID targets better than Mi-35 in bad weather. I need technical data, not the voice opinion of a SAAF pilot who wasnts to take all the glory of a joint multinational combat operation for himself alone, why did the reporter not interview the Mi-35 pilot too and let us hear from Ukrainian air force?

You think courts judge cases by hearing only the prosecutor and refusing to hear from the accused? That's how your brain works?
.

jln115:
Go watch the video I posted multiple times.

Your video shows people talking at interviews, it did not show how Rooivalk has better FLIR than Hind....I need proof, tech/specs/data
.

jln115:
DUDE GO WATCH THE VIDEO!!!
The pilot never said it only has a 2km range, it was the reporter that said it could fire OVER 2kms.

He said ABOUT 2 km NOT OVER, it's ABOUT 2 km he said....and could mean less than 2 km. Rooivalk cannon is weak .

The reporter got the info from the pilot he was talking to.

Now show us citation for the data/specs range of the Rooivalk cannon....show us
.

MikeCZAR:
Canon range is 5km+

Rockets are 6km.

The 12,7m? The Hind only makes strafing runs and it can't hover!

Citations needed for the Rooivalk rocket and cannon ranges. Rooivalk cannon is 2 km range confirmed by it's own SAAF pilot.

Hind carries 3 cannon types/options and can carry two different gun types together at the same time, nose gun and pylon gun :

4 barrel 12.7 mm

2 barrel 23 mm

2 barrel 30 mm

Rooivalk carries only one type of cannon.... 1 barrel 20 mm

Hind cannot hover? You ever seen a helicopter that cannot hover? Then what you say is not a helicopter. Ability to hover is the unique feature of every helicopter in this world. Olodo.

MikeCZAR:
The cannon range is 5km+

The rockets are: 6km.

On the MI-24P? Which is stationary? Is better? No it isn't.

The SAAF Rooivalk pilot declares the cannon range of his helicopter as 2 km, you have no practical knowledge of the weapon to challenge his claim , he flies the Rooivalk as a pilot of SAAF.

Confirmed by SAAF Rooivalk pilot, the helicopters cannon range is a fvcking 2 km . Proved by your own Southie pilot in the video.

Show us the rocket range, how you got 6 km, would be good to give us a proof.

M-35 Hind helicopter carries 3 types of cannon, and it can change the gun at will, the rotating flexible gun is the most common and that is what Nigeria uses, our Hinds don't use fixed stationary gun generally, they are rotating cannon that fires from different angles no matter what direction the helicopter faces.

Youjust like to post bullshiit dude.
.

MikeCZAR:
In Chanzu with the Rooivalk in the field the rebels were easily dismounted.

The 20mm cannon has range of 5km+

The SAAF Rooivalk pilot confirmed the helicopter cannon range as 2 km according to that your own video !

He fires the cannon, you don't ! He know the real range.

Don't compare gun power, the Mi-35 fires 30 mm x 2 double barrel cannon, Rooivalk fires 20 mm x 1 single barrel.

One burst of fire from Mi-35 will do 3 times more damage than the Rooivalk's tiny gun
.

jln115:
More opinion based Bull sh1t!!
As for the FCR saga, It has the TDATS sight, which can Auto track targets and engage target,s as well as carrying out reconnaissance.

Mi-35 Hind too has targeting sights....Russian standard. I see no difference
.

jln115:
"First the Rooivalk pilot said the Mi-24 Hinds attacked first at 2pm, and made M23 rebels alert and ready for the Rooivalk coming at 4pm.

Next he contradicted himself saying at 4pm Rooivalk arrived and M23 rebels were not expecting them."

The world does not believe the one sided story of a South African pilot praising himself for glory and discrediting other people behind their backs.

Dude you are fvcking r3tarded!Fact!!! He said the Mi24s were supposed to attack at 2pm, but they never ID the target due to bad weather and went back to base , thus there wasn't any reason for the rebels to expect them.

And you can provide as many sources as you want, I know the Rooivalk attacked the Rebels in conjunction with the MI24s, I was just pointing out that the Rooivalk has superior all weather capability.

"Then he said anti-aircraft artillery kept firing at the Rooivalk and missing.....yet the Rooivalk was using unguided weapons with 2km range and withing hit range of enemy anti-aircraft fire.....even American aircraft get sh.ot down in that situation."

Do you think he just hovered in one place without any evasive manoeuvers? This just points out the skill of our pilot.

Post us the Ukrainian Mi-35 pilot's report where they said the could not attack because of bad weather. Mi-35 Hind is an all weather combat helicopter.

Show us how a Rooivalk performs better in target ID than the Mi-35....they both use FLIR to find target....so show us the difference in technical specs of their FLIR
.

MikeCZAR:
Multi-role.

And good air to ground capabilities.

Sales go up! When your weapons are demonstrated in the field.

Rafale has never fought against another 4+ generation jet fighter, or against modern anti-aircraft missile defences
.

jln115:
Good thing is nobody gives a sh1t about your opinion! Experts all round the world rate the Rooivalk as one of the best AH in the world.

Rooivalk has NO fire control Radar.

Rooivalk 20mm cannon has only 2 km range

Rooivalk has only been tested against half dead rebels that had one 14.5 mm gun for air defence.

Try test your Rooivalks against vehicle mobile 23mm x 4 barrel air defence guns with 3.5 km effective range like Nigeria did with the Mi-35 M Hinds, and see how your 2 km range cannon and 3 km range unguided rockets will send your pilots to Hades in pieces.

Also test your Rooivalk against enemy shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles like the Russians did the Mi-24 Hinds against enemy Stinger anti-aircraft missiles.

You named Rooivalk as one of the best helicopter gunships in the world, yet it was only tested against rag tag rebels with machine guns, the Mi-24 Hind has fought against national armies and air forces around the world, against missiles and jet fighters.

Rooivalk is an untested obsolescent helicopter, that is now behind time
.

jln115:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNOwCBZp6bs

South African pilots report is no proof, post us the Ukrainian pilots report and let us compare both.

Easy to pick out lies when South Africans talk.

First the Rooivalk pilot said the Mi-24 Hinds attacked first at 2pm, and made M23 rebels alert and ready for the Rooivalk coming at 4pm.

Next he contradicted himself saying at 4pm Rooivalk arrived and M23 rebels were not expecting them.

Then he said anti-aircraft artillery kept firing at the Rooivalk and missing.....yet the Rooivalk was using unguided weapons with 2km range and withing hit range of enemy anti-aircraft fire.....even American aircraft get sh.ot down in that situation.

He claimed the Rooivalk did not even get scratched....really....na ghost....spirit ? Whom do you wanna fool ?

Then he said the Mi-24 Hinds failed, but UN reports say both Rooivalk and Mi-24/35 together side by side attacked M23 rebels at the same time...

"Rooivalks had conducted their offensive operations against M23 positions in partnership with a pair of Mil Mi-24/35 ‘Hind’ helicopters of the FIB." http://defense-update.com/20131107_rooivalk_combat_debut.html#.VUOJqyFViko

Meanwhile, even Congo DRC air force Mi-24/35 Hind helicopters were reported to have performed excellently against M23 rebels :


"The UN and the Congolese army sent MI24 and MI25 helicopters flown by Ukrainian pilots. The gunships, first made by the Soviet Union, strafed hillsides with 30mm rounds and fired rockets, a UN source said.

"We made several passes on rebel positions," the UN official said.


http://reliefweb.int/report/democratic-republic-congo/un-drc-helicopter-gunships-attack-m23-rebels

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/16/us-congo-democratic-fighting-idUSBRE96F14Z20130716

You cannot fool us here dude !
.

jln115:
Nope MI35s couldn't ID the enemy targets due to bad weather , thus the Rooivalks were called in.

Citation needed ! ....Also add the source of weather report for that day of operation.

Both helicopters attacked targets togehter at the same time in Congo
.

EVarn:
In the case of India,this overpriced purchase may be a prognosis to India's quest to acquire the french:
*top notch nuclear submarines
*superior military aviatech
*nuclear missile tech and thermonuclear fusion test facility.
The best way to do all these is to acquire deep pockets and impress france

Exactly bros, plus the Rafale jet technology itself...the Indians are getting some Rafale tech secrets....while France wants a market for it's jet
.

Henry120:
I've read about it, and nothing exciting about it. Both the F/A-18 Super hornet, SU-35/30sm, Eurofighter offer similar packages.

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/defense/rafale/the-sheer-power-of-multisensor-data-fusion/


It is not even an Air-superiority fighter like the F-22, Eurofighter or SU-35. It's tailored more towards ground attack first, then Air-Air combat.

Rafale is over-priced, much over-priced. If I wanna go high-end I would buy Su-35 Flanker instead, else at medium cost I would buy Su-30 SM with 400 km range radar and 400 km range air to air missile that speeds over 7,000 km/hr.....Rafale has just 200 km range radar.

It's funny when NATO jets are rated higher than Russian jets....wish they meet and fight over Ukraine in the air, then the American/European marketing propaganda of weapons performance will be exposed for the world to laugh at
.

jln115:
Dude have you ever heard of a thing called storage?

I am the on;y one who posted SANDF numbers of Olifant vtanks in storage here yesterday.....133 units.

Even adding up all those, SANDF has ONLY 203 tanks in total NOT 266 as you fraudulently claim....fraudster !
.