₦airaland Forum

andrewza:
Just because it is new does not mean it is better or good.

Okay, SAAF Hawk jets of 2005 era are same as those 1980s era. You train inside obsolete jets. Simple
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andrewza:
Again what is a 2010 level. You talk like it is a computer game.

Year 2005 era Italian Grifo radars including some with about 90 km range, modern HUDAWAC, HMS and year 2010 combat suite you never find in a MiG-21 basic old model.

You talk like a navy cook yet deny being one
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DieVluit:
Beats your "it is so cause I say so" argument. If what you say is the proper procedure, then it should be published. But it isn't.

I am not copy pasting procedure, I am educating your ANC imprisoned minds to know that US Army does not discriminate in recruitment of combat soldiers based on their BSc degree course of study. There are accountants, school teachers, sociologists, lawyers, and people who have never been to university all in the US Army as combatants, that's what they want, chose to be and passed the relevant tests, exams, training, etc.

US Army don't force people into a corps or department they don't want to service, it's voluntary service NOT conscription.

Olodos
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patches689:
No augustus

Thats not how the us army works

You take your asvab aptitude test

They offer you role specific contracts based on yout score amd before you are even in the army

If you want to be infantry, you get offered an 11B contract before you even step on the bus

If you want to be involved in finanance you get offerd 36B

You are a serial lair - so pathetic that you need to invent myths to try to argue.

The only thing that i worry about is the delusions you have

Are you sick?

You sit down inside South Africa using google search to copy and paste US Army recruitment information that is freely available to every human being that has internet at home and you are saying other people don't know it, are you sick? You ever joined US Army before?

You are a clueless internet addict scooping free public information from Google
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andrewza:
Who said thev1960 mig21. The mig 21 has been upgraded to you know.

You Southies say F-7 is a 1980 jet. The F-7 has been upgraded to 2010 level you know.

andrewza:
Any body who tries to compare the F7 to any thing but a mig 21 is a fool.

Anybody who compares a 2010 F-7 having modern Italian avionics with a 1960 MiG-21 having ancient Soviet avionics is a big time fool
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patches689:
Why would accountant be given the 11B MOS when their MOS is 36B?

O wait - mr pmc didnt know about the MOS system.

Fvcking pathetic liar

Anyone enlisting as a combatant soldier is recruited as a combatant soldier in US Army, they don't care about your university degree, there are school teachers in US Army, you don't know that by living in ANC prison.

Anyway, don't worry about who I am, worry about the comments I post, that is what puts you into panic mode driving you in.sane as you type away furiously on your groaning laptop
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andrewza:
I hope you get fired because you know nothing of the field you in.

Navy cook/chef, what are you frying for your sailors today? Onions and eggs?

Troop101:
die nai was nog laas n accountant Die mase poes

There are many accountants in US Army combatant infantry.

You don't travel beyond your ANC cage.

dacostaANG:
My brother I'm not here to boost my country's ego or to play games by claiming untruth's. There are a lot of falsehoods in your statements above.

1) There's no such thing as we both die in air combat if opposing forces only engage each other with short range missiles
a) the generation of aircraft needs to be considered
b) the avionic suit.
c) type of missile
d) jammering and radar systems
e) training and experience of the pilots.

All these facts will determine the out come of a dog fight between aircraft concerned.

2)The SAAF Gripen overall is better then the most current versions of the SU-30 even better then the SU-30MKI the only down side of the SAAF Gripen's are the lack of BVR but there onboard missile detection systems more then makes up for there absence of a dedicated BVR.


3) The PL-9 is an inferior missile compared to the IRST missile system.

In conclusion I see no way that any of your statements can be true in the modern world of 4th gen aircrafts. We must learn to put our patty patriotism aside.

Patriotism?

I post technical facts not patriotism.

Bros, sorry to say you are jumping into a forum with a thread that has almost 2,000 pages . Do you know what we have discussed here in the past 5 years of this same topic? No, you don't.

You have too many leaking holes in your above comment. Does Angola have any air force pilot with air to air combat experience? Have you worked with any combat experienced jet fighter pilot before? Be honest.

Well, I have ex-USAF pilots working in my office, they have shot down enemy jet fighters before in combat.

Last year on this forum, I posted a report from an American jet fighter test pilot who proved that in close range air to air combat, the 3.5 generation jets and the 4 generation jets are both going to die together in combat if pilot skills are equal.

Reason is that you have only about 10 seconds to make decisions when missiles speed to k.ill at 3,000 km per hour and the enemy launch jet is within visual range just 20 km away from you! Sudden death!

There is something in air to air combat technically called NO ESCAPE ZONE....you enter that close range, you both die.

Now you say SAAF Gripen C/D is better than Su-30 MKI of India? Big error!

The Su-30MKI radar range is 400 km against the weaker Gripen radar range of 120 km. Dude, I don't know you but you sound like a comedian.

In WVR combat, the Su-30MKI has vector thrusting capability which is totally missing on Gripen . The supermaneuverability of the Su-30 gives dogfight superiority for missile evasion and gun fight edge, it will kill the poorly maneuverable Gripen.

Your other mistake is that you limited air combat to just the machines, you omitted pilot skill, previous combat experience, and pilots intelligence or sense and speed of judgement/decision making.

Also you said the old Gripen of South Africa is better than the latest Su-30 Flanker, I just pity you, the latest version is Su-30SM of Russia and it is built to challenge the F-22 Raptor, it switches off radar and uses long range Video TV camera to detect and attack stealth jet fighters that are invisible to radar. You don't even know about Su-30SM, try ask questions when you don't understand things.

Dude, you need more than one head to take on Nigerians, the South Africans here can show you all their bruises and wounds they have suffered in this slaughter house
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MikeCZAR:
The PL-9C is still inferior.

The A-Darter and IRIS-T 5th gen SRAAM(s) are modern bodylift missiles unlike your PL-9C which still uses fins for flight control.

Trust vectoring control(TVC) enables them to have higher agility, the A-Darter being manoeuvreable up to 100g. These missiles with HMD(s) target designation can hit targets behind the aircraft.

Also these missiles have wider look angles coupled with TVC, the launch platform doesn't have to be at the same altitude with the target to intercept it.

The latest test the target was at a 90 degrees trajectory to the launch platform but the missile was able to find and intercept the target.

Tales by moonlight....personal opinion....cool
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saengine:
"Same missile" developed in the 1980's (surface to air) then again "same missile" developed mid 1990's (air to air). No comeback to this. Cool story. Next topic please.

Same topic please.

The first missiles developed in 1980s are named PL-9.

The improved and advanced missiles developed in 1990s are named PL-9C.

The PL-9C according to your panick stricken brother @Patches' Chinese source, is a multi purpose missile that can be launched from air, ground or sea.....same PL-9C missile.

Thanks to @Patches for posting that confirmation source that proved the same one and only PL-9C missile is multi purpose.

Nice to see that South African posted source from @Patches himself
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dacostaANG:
I work in the aviation industry but I have a air force background and got my training as a technician in the air force. So I consider myself quit clued up on aviation matters, but we all learn and gain insight from discussions.

But truly speaking some of the comments on this forum really cracks me up.

I work in defense industry in the USA as researcher for a private military company that employs ex-USAF and US Army soldiers and pilots with combat experience in Iraqi Gulf war.

You are not coming to a Nairaland forum of ignorant and untrained war mongers.

Welcome to our slaughter house made in Nigeria
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Patchesagain:
No

Range: 500m-22km

If that is the range it can operate in then that is the range it can operate in.

Maximum. E.F.F.E.C.T.I.V.E range of PL-9C is 35 km according to reputable military source Army Recognition data.

Do you know the meaning of EFFECTIVE ? Kill range !
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patches689:
Nigeria has no PGM's

Nigeria has 30 units of ultra-modern PGM...AR-1 air to surface missiles. It's confirmed on SIPRI 2014 updated database.

South Africa has NO single air to surface missile.

Hey, Angolan new man on this forum, you said me I post falsehood based on mere patriotism.

Now when a South African openly denies Nigeria has a weapon that it's confirmed to have , what do you call that, truth based on facts or falsehood based on patriotism?

I begin to question your neutrality as an Angolan.

Patchesagain:
Range is 22km - according to your own source.

Yes, thanks for proving me right, range = 22 km, maximum EFFECTIVE range = 35 km according the same source. Thank you for agreeing with me
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saengine:
NO NO NO.....thats the "usual range". The range the missile "usually" hits something....not the maxinum range

NO NO NO.....35 km is MAXIMUM EFFECTIVE RANGE according to army recognition below....effective kill range is 35 km...

http://www.armyrecognition.com/china_chinese_army_missile_systems_vehicles/pl-9c_shorad_short_range_ground-to-air_missile_technical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video.html


Usual range is commonly expected use range for missiles and the usual range for A-Darter missile is ONLY 10 km, while maximum effective range is 20 km for A-Darter .

NAF has F-7 jet with near BVR missile range 35 km to destroy the entire SAAF in 5 minutes.

You guys are sweating like mad.men on your laptops since yesterday o, because of NAF near BVR missile 35 km range PL-9C
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Patchesagain:
[size=13pt]You said both missiles are the same... why can only only go to 6000 ft and the other to 20 000ft?[/size]

I feel sorry for you

[size=13pt]
Nope i feel sorry for your scientific brain deficiency.

PL-9C launched from ground, the fire control radar is fixed on the ground and needs contact, but limited to 6.5 km above ground level.

PL-9C launched from air, the fire control radar is inside the F-7 jet that is already in the air from 1 km to 17 km above ground level, so ceiling does not apply .

Your Soweto school did not develop your brains to think beyond the English language on a website, the science behind it is too advanced for a South African citizen....you have the second dullest brains in the world....confirmed

NAF PL-9C missile on F-7NI jet has near BVR range 35 km...We have put Southies into panic mode today o !
.[/size]

Patchesagain:
[size=16pt]its said that the air to air version has a ~20km range BY THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT[/size]

http://www.catic.cn/indexPortal/home/index.do?cmd=goToChannel&cid=746&columnid=1914&cpid=1653&dataid=4297&columnType=102&likeType=view&ckw=ATAM#

The two missiles are completely different - this is obvious to us all.

You shamless liar and fraud. Are you so scared of honest debat that you must creat false information?

[size=16pt]

Bwahahaha....you whipped yourself

It is NOT a Government source, just a website from China, show me government ministry logo on that source

That website is for a commercial business named CATIC....a multi-national, NOT Chinese government.

""To develop CATIC into a multi-national corporation with international competitiveness" is the vision of CATIC."

http://www.catic.cn/indexPortal/home/index.do?cmd=goToChannel&cid=750&language=US

Your source did NOT say air to air version !

It only said PL-9C is Multi-purpose missile....multi-purpose, air or ground launched or sea launched !

Also, it posted the usual range only, NOT the maximum range, BUT army recognition post both usual RANGE and MAXIMUM RANGE.

Your source does NOT say maximum range

NAF has PL-9C missile maximum range 35 km to kill all SAAF aircraft from BVR range

GAME OVER !

[/size]

patches689:
1. Unless you are talking about groundlaunching the PlC-9 then its range is not BVR
2. What mobile ground search radars do you have?

Both air launch and ground launch PL-9C are the same missile, same specs, same weight, same size, same fuel load, same range.

Show me where army recognition says the PL-9C missiles are different in fuel load, fuel determines range !

Same missiles, different launching locations, one from air , other from ground, same missile, same size, same fuel, same range.

NAF has a near BVR missile.....SAAF is dead stuck with short range toys

http://www.armyrecognition.com/china_chinese_army_missile_systems_vehicles/pl-9c_shorad_short_range_ground-to-air_missile_technical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video.html

There is ONLY ONE type of PL-9C missile in this world, no matter the launch platform !
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patches689:
You are talking about two different configurations


But ok - lets play along with your stup1dity

Gripen detects the F7 first (because better radar)

Gripen climbs to above 6km altitude

PLC missile canmot go that high

Gripen shoots down defenceless F7.

So in your crazy fantasy world it fails

And in reality you are talking about teo different missiles

You are very wrong !

F-7 altitude is far superior to Gripen !

NAF F-7 climbs to over 17 km ceiling.

SAAF inferior Gripen climbs to max 15 km ceiling.

From extra 2 km advantage above the head of the Gripen, F-7 jet fires near BVR missile PL-9C from 35 km away.

South African air force is wiped out in 5 minutes (((((((( BOOM BOOM BOOM )))))))

NAF is more powerful than SAAF .

CASE CLOSED

Msauza:
PL-9C has a range of 22 KM.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL-9



Your obsolete F7 has a poor detection radar, a very important element in any fighter jet. Any fighter with poor detection radar it means it can not be good for offensive and thus is a bad dog fighter.

Griffin has an important element which will detect F7 from over 120 KM away.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS-05/A


A Gripen jet will detect your F7 Jets from over 60KM away without your poor pilots realising that the gripen jets are on the nearby. That will serve as an advantage for gripen pilots to launch an attack first. F7 are not a good platform to launch BVR because of the detection radar which has severe limitations. A gripen jet will still defeat F7 jets even if they were armed with BVRs.


The BVR require stealth fighters which can detect an enemy aircraft from far distances and often earlier than before it could be detect. Tell me how will it help you to be armed with 60 KM range BVR when your radar is only 25 KMs? That does not make sense.

Wikipedia is an inferior source that even you can edit todsy and post wrong information.

My source is the world respected army recognition website and is very reliable.

NAF F-7 jets have PL-9C missile with near BVR range of 35 km...NAF out-ranges SAAF Gripen jets in combat...SAAF is finished o!

http://www.armyrecognition.com/china_chinese_army_missile_systems_vehicles/pl-9c_shorad_short_range_ground-to-air_missile_technical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video.html

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saengine:
Perhaps you think you are talking to a group of 5 year olds who cant read. This post proves you a mentally sick, attention seeking fraud.


35 km range = surface to air variant of PL-9C missile.
22km range = air to air variant

F00l

Did you not read your own link? Are you mentally sick? Look at the red box in your screengrab. Just next to it....what does it say?? ALTITUTE LIMIT 6.5km.

What kind of air to air missile has an ALTITUDE LIMIT of only 6.5km?? Gripen pilots will fly at 22 000 feet, shoot your rust buckets down, while chatting to their wives on whatsapp. And there will be nothing you can do about it.

You see how you have been sent to your hole? How your stupi.dity has been exposed? Waste of space.

Nope, you are the victim of Soweto breed sub-standard South African education.

Fool, it is the same missile PL-9C fired as air to air OR air to ground, same missile, same specifications NO difference in the missile itself.

Show me where army recognition says the air launch and ground launch PL-9C have different maximum ranges, show me below...

http://www.armyrecognition.com/china_chinese_army_missile_systems_vehicles/pl-9c_shorad_short_range_ground-to-air_missile_technical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video.html

The fuel load inside a missile determines it's range, the fuel load is the same in both variants, there is no small size or big size PL-9C missile, they are both same capacity and same 115 kg weight, same fuel load, and your science is too poor to let you know that fuel load determines range of a traveling rocket propellant.

22 km is used for air to air usual range, 35 km is the maximum effective range air to air or ground to air.

That is why army recognition data says Range = 22 km, Maximum Range = 35 km.

You thought I did not read army recognition analysis before I posted it? Mumu domingo

http://www.armyrecognition.com/china_chinese_army_missile_systems_vehicles/pl-9c_shorad_short_range_ground-to-air_missile_technical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video.html

PL-9C = PL-9C no matter the launcher system you use.

Fool, altitude only applies when the PL-9C is fired from the ground based launcher, the missile is used both as air to air. and ground to air combat.

The ground launch had ceiling or altitude because the fire control radar is fixed on ground, the air launch is at any altitude the the jet fighter can fly to, F-7 flies at almost 18 km altitude and is BETTER than the Gripen 15 km altitude. Use your coconut head when you read.

F-7 jet has superior altitude to the Gripen so NAF can fire missiles at SAAF from over your fvcking coconut heads above your level !

F-7 jet missile range 35 km near BVR

Gripen jet missile range 25 km short range !

NAF kills SAAF.....I have rattled you Southies into sweating and fainting mode today

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MikeCZAR:
Using its 4th generation characteristics the Gripen would eat the F-7 by intercepting them flying low from their flanks.

The Gripen will always have a upper hand and a superior situational awareness.

Can be supported by air force radars and army GBADS, bringing a radar coverage of than 400km.

Again your F-7 can't operate at night and during bad weather, so they'll be destroyed on the ground at night.

You Southies are a bunch of illiterates, F-7 jets have had all-weather combat capabilities since 1988 ! Fools !

"The J-7M's design was certified and adopted in 1988, giving the J-7 family an aircraft with all-weather capabilities. The successful development of the J-7M shows that it is feasible to import advanced foreign airborne equipment to improve the performance of domestic aircraft and thus to promote exports."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-7m.htm

You think Pakistan will field a jet that is not all weather against mighty India?

You think Nigeria will buy a $ 15 million jet that is not all weather capable? Mumu domingoes, all of you in Soweto are mumustic mumus

F-7 jet is all weather with Italian Grifo Radar.

A-Darter cannot destroy a small air to air missile, it was tested ONLY against a Skua drone, big drone !

SAAF has ZERO A-Darter missiles today, so no argument, you DON'T have it.


Nigeria too has ground radars with 500 km range, so don't bring ground radar to this air to air battle.

SAAF Gripen jet missile range 25 km .

NAF F-7 jet missile range 35 km....almost BVR.

South African air force is dead from a near BVR distance, your pilots wont even see Nigerian F-7 jet from our BVR position 37 km away, we fire missile at 35 km away.....Mandela will weep inside his grave as we demolish his air force
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saengine:
Waste of data. Waste of internet. Waste of space.

Your personal opinions are irrelevant.

A Darter/Iris-T can hit incoming missiles - engineering fact

PL-9 cannot hit incoming missiles - engineering fact

Gripen will completely and utterly destroy F-7 - engineering fact

Your opinion =/= engineering fact
Your opinion = pathetic, attention seeking stunt


Name one 4th generation jet that uses PL-9 missiles operationally. F-7 jet =/= 4th generation.

You have a 3rd generation missile, for a 3rd generation jet. Which will be completely demolished by Gripen. Basic fact. Deal with it.

JF-17 Thunder Block II and J-10 Vigorous Dragon jets use PL-9 missiles. PL-9C kill probability in combat is 90%. Stop spewing shiiit here
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saengine:
Waste of Internet. PL-9 has zero self defence function. The only killing that will happen Gripen vs F-7 is a dead Nigerian pilot.

No need to waste Starstreak missiles on ATR-42. ATR-42 can even have 500km range radar if it makes you happy. Gripen will fire from 24km out....turn those men to minced meat. Steak and kidney pies. Those planes are only good for the likes of Boko Haram.

[size=13pt]PL-9 missile is for 4th generation fighters, it has ECM, nobody builds modern missiles in that class, for almost a million dollars per missile with no internal ECM. Even 1980s Otomat missile has ECM.

F-7NI jets of NAF have a near BVR missile, the PL-9C and the range is 35 km.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/china_chinese_army_missile_systems_vehicles/pl-9c_shorad_short_range_ground-to-air_missile_technical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video.html

A-Darter range is very poor at 20 km and even shorter than PL-9 range 35 km. F-7 kills Gripen from extra 15 km distance away.

When SAAF flies it's first combat jet mission since 20 years ago, come back talk to us. NAF flew 6,000 combat missions in the past 6 months.

We are NOT in your league of redundant sit at home air forces with poor range air to air missiles.

NAF has near BVR air to air missile....PL-9C....range 35 km

SAAF air force is dead....((((((( BOOM ))))))
.[/size]
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MikeCZAR:
Including the Ingwe missile and the H2 glide bomb.

The whole SANDF has NO SINGLE air to surface missile, NAF has 30 !

SANDF is obsolete
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saengine:
Lmao! Talk about completely changing the topic after you see you've been defeated. From F-7 jets to air to surface missiles.

Did you not see me specifically talking about Iris-T missiles as well?

You will have JF-17, with missiles, with fully trained pilots within the next 2-3 months?? Let me bookmark this page to embarrass you later. You are completely delusional. Infact you are not delusional....you are simply being a troll.

A-Darter and Iris-T missiles are also self defence missiles. Yours are not. Your jets have no way to defend themselves. Gripen will completely and utterly out maneuver F-7 jets.....fact.

Like i have told you before, go stand in an open field/bush/covering and see if our "unexperienced" Gripen and Hawk pilots wont hit you. Turn you to minced meat.

Come fly your surveillance aircraft over Pretoria and see if a Hawk jet with simple guns wont shoot it down. Zero protection whatsoever. You can only spy on Boko Haram, and no country with a slightly modern air force. You yourself have said this on Beegeagle blog.

Spew more garbage, you have freedom of speech on Nairaland.

NAF PL-9C missile has it's own inbuilt ECM, it's a modern missile....with 90% kill probability....Your Gripens short range misses forces SAAF to fly into no-escape-kill-zone.

NAF ATR-42 flies with F-7 jet escort, and 330 km range radar, it sees all SANDF activities out of range of your 1 km ceiling Starstreak SAMS.

We will oppress your ZERO experienced pilots and soldiers....SANDF is a virtual-online-internet-web based military.

Come back for a debate when your impotent photo-club SAAF has flown one half of NAF's 6,000 combat sorties, like these....
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[size=16pt]

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Nigerian Air Force Joins The Big Club Of The Few In Africa :

Enter The 30 Units Of AR-1 Air To Surface Missiles !

[/size]

saengine:
Oh my God! You PROVED it by watching videos?? Oh my goodness....how embarassing . How amazingly embarrassing...wow.

So when the Nigerian Air Force generals look for a new jets to replace F-7 they go onto youtube? Lmao!

Gripen and F-7 are not in the same class at all. Completely different generation of jets. Fact. Waste your own time and google it. Even Beegeagle says your F-7's are crap. Waste of time. So waste your own time, not mine.


Gripen will utterly and completely r.ape F-7. Any missile you manage to fire at us will be shot down in self defence, which Iris-T and A-Darter can do.You will be r.aped....fact.

Add to that....Nigeria has 3rd generation PL-9C missiles. Range is 22km. IRIS-T has a range of 25km. We will shoot you down before you even have the chance to fire at us.


SA Airforce safe if missiles fired from max range
SA Airforce safe if missiles fired from close range
SA Airfirce safe if guns are needed at close range

CASE CLOSED

Nope, SAAF has NO A-Darter missile in service.

By the time you induct A-Darter we will have NAF JF-17 Thunder.

A-Darter has same problem with PL-9C....short range 22 km. We die together !

SAAF = NAF in air to air combat.

SAAF has zero air to ground combat experience with Gripen and Hawk jets, NAF has flown over 2,000 air to ground combat sorties in 3 months.

SAAF is 66 years behind NAF in ISTAR capability.

SAAF has NO SINGLE air to surface missile, NAF has 30 air to surface missiles.

SAAF will NAF's next Ra.pe victim after Boko Haram

NOW CASE PROPERLY CLOSED !
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DieVluit:
And his most famous word - obsolete - showing up in all the wrong places. Of course, this is Agauby.

DieVluit is it true that you are female ?
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Patchesagain:
Yeah

Because they did so well last time

Yeah, RSA surrendered at UN peace meeting last time