₦airaland Forum

mzilakazi:
LOL!!! Go to Libya and ask them.

NATO strike on Libya, led by USA not Sweden, few Gripens dropped a few bombs after NATO led by America neutralized Libyan air defences, NO Libyan SAM missile or AAA gun was fired at the Gripen and NO Libyan airforce jet intercepted to engage the Gripen.

NAF Alpha jets have fought against heavy enemy anti-aircraft fire, 1,000 times more battle tested than Gripen jets

FACT !!
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MikeCZAR:
The Gripen are armed with different armaments

free fall bombs: Mk 81, Mk 82 etc

PGM: GBU-12 II Paveway laser guided bombs.

Pods:

1.Lightening III LDP.

2. DJRP (Digital joint reconnaissance pod).

Missiles:

1. IRIS-T SRAAM.

2. A-Darter SRAAM receiving final qualifications in "the next weeks". This will replace the IRIST-T SRAAM.

3. BVR: Likely Meteor BVRAAM as an interim solution as the Marlin BVRAAM is developed. Going for flight tests early next year.

The Al tariq glide bomb is also integrated on the Hawk LIFT.

The only precision guided weapon on South African Gripen jet is Paveway guided bombs, finish.

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patches689:
First, you dont need 4th gen. You need a CAS platform that is rugged and cheap. This is the Scorpion

Second, the Scorpion is made by Textron AirLand, a massive multibillion dollar company that is not going anywhere.

Third, if your lawyers have any skill, the deal to buy them will include multiple clauses referring to complete life-cycle support for the platform.

Fourth, the Scorpion was not designed for US needs. Its in the same catagory as the AHRLAC. Target nations are those that need CAS and ISTAR but dont have the money for advanced multi-role air-frames. Nigeria falls squarely into that category.

Facts on ground proves you wrong....
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ActivateKruger:
Now Nigeria, go on and buy these NK rockets pulled by tractors...... buhahahah

Useless Military

No, South Africa needs the North Korean rockets, what SANDF has now is worse than the Korean stuff

PHOTO : ONE OF SOUTH AFRICA'S OBSOLETE JUNK YARD WEAPONS STILL IN SERVICE 2014
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ActivateKruger:
Like the "battle proven" JF-17.

buhahahah

Gripen jet has NO combat experience against any opponent

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mzilakazi:
JF-17 competes with Scorpion fighter jets.


http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/09/25/scorpion-low-cost-fighter-jet-for-future-battles/

Nope, illiterate man.

JF-17 is supersonic and multirole-air superiority

Scorpion is subsonic and ISR-Light Strike

I can say Scorpion competes with Gripen
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mzilakazi:
I posted Indian army source from their official website which proves you wrong. They don't agree with other sources.

You posted a private Indian website named Bharat, owned by a private man somewhere, it is NOT official Indian army website.

Stop telling lies, Soweto man !
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patches689:
Yeah, thats why the only armored vehical you make is 50% South African

How ?
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mzilakazi:
SANDF G6-52 self-propelled howitzer is far superior than FH77B. Nobody can ever dispute that even India couldn't think twice to see that.

G6-52 is NOT yet in service.

The G-6 has only 38km range shells available in SANDF arsenal
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ActivateKruger:
Sources say they will be getting 12 JF-17s from Pakistan end of November....

What is your source to prove that info ?

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mzilakazi:
Shut up, the whole of Africa is inferior to SA in terms of artillery batteries. You keep on waining and waining about Indian FH77B which India has upgraded. Show us Nigerian artillery or else keep that mouth shut. India with their FH77B came to SA begging for artillery which is equivalent to G6. So, tell me was India stupidd to have ever made such a purchase?


As far as this topic is concerned we are not going to entertain you anymore. You lost!!!! Next topic please!!!

You finally surrendered ! Good !

Nigerian and India both have Bofors FH-77B according to SIPRI and with range 41km according to army guide and Indian army.

Unless you can show us that the photo Patches posted, is Bofors on a mountain high altitude with proof of exact altitude in metres or kilometres above sea level.....

Or else you shut up... CASE CLOSED

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andrewza:
Nope. No orders are in other than a VIP chopper, not even for the scorpion order is in. You guys want to replace stuff.

April 2014 NAF Chief of staff officially anounced that Nigeria had already acquired new type of fighter aircraft to be showcased to the public later.

NAF is not in hurry to display our new combat aircraft, no rush, no photo cr.aze, no P.R. image boosting cr.aze.

Nigeria is not a noisemaker like South Africa

http://www.punchng.com/news/fg-okays-new-fighter-jets-for-air-force/
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andrewza:
So, we have them and can build our own.

Do you have any? no, and realy with what laser designator will your alpha jets use?

So they don't have it?

NAF Mi-35M Hind E and upgraded Alpha Jets are configured to fire PGM.

NAF has not bought PGM and related hardware, it's easy to install on pylons.

SAAF has only 15 or so pieces of PGM and only guided bombs.

No big deal
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snydergp:
Wow u guys still at each other.

@Augustine, u still baking casava muffins

Yes bro. How's Soweto slum?
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snydergp:
Wow u guys still at each other.

@Augustine, u still baking casava muffins

Yes bro
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mzilakazi:
@Agaugust, shut up!! you have lost this discussion.

@All South Africans, shut up !! You are CANNOT answer my simple question, means you lost the Bofors artillery argument

[size=16pt]

Show us proof of the exact altitude of the artillery gun in your photo, how many meters or kilometers above sea level ?
[/size]

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andrewza:
Though SAAF does have PGMs where NAF does not even have the means to deploy them

There is ONLY ONE PGM in SAAF and you have only about 15 units of it, Paveway Guided bombs.

NAF Mi-35M and Alpha Jets have capacity to deliver PGM if we buy guided bombs and air to ground guided missiles.

NAF has the capacity but is not using it yet
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patches689:
Yes, the SANDF says that max range with Base Bleed is 38km

Does it say we do not have VLAP?

No.

Max range is over 50km with VLAP

Bofors FH-77B range with it's own 'VLAP' called EXCALIBUR is 60km.

Both NA and SANDF have no such rocket assisted shell.

Another Mokopa ATGM tragedy
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......
[size=16pt]
Show us proof of the exact altitude of the artillery gun in your photo, how many meters or kilometers above sea level ?

.....
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mzilakazi:
So, this means Nigerian military does not have Airforce at all. They cannot fire a single missile from their platforms. Indeed, it is a disaster.

NAF and SAAF both have air to air guided missiles with about same combat capability.

If Nigeria has no missiles for our jets, South Africa too has NONE

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patches689:
No, the gun is at high altitude - its in the middle of a mountain range

[size=16pt]

Show us proof of the exact altitude of the artillery gun in your photo, how many meters or kilometers above sea level ?

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Patchesagain:
DONE!!

CASE CLOSED!!

Augugubug says Army-Guide is 100% correct!!

We have a max range of 67km

End of story

Nope I didnt say that, army guide says V-LAP rocket shell range is 67km, but SANDF says they dont have V-LAP, the best shell South African army has is base bleed with maximum range only 38km

SANDF is final authority like Indian army

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[size=16pt]Anyway, the Indian man said range is 42km at high altitude, so which one is at high altitude?

The gun or the target?

All photos show the gun at bottom of mountains on level ground, while the gun barrel points to high altitude mountain targets.

The only meaning is that the gun is on low altitude firing at target on high altitude 41km away !

.[/size]

Patchesagain:
No, its 30km in standard operating conditions.

And Nigeria does not have Base-Bleed, so its actually 27km

10 km short of the G5 and G6

You are a confused man, and CANNOT be trusted, you have quoted 3 different ranges for Bofors with standard shell.


You changed from 20km, to 24km, now 27km. So which is which? You don't know anything about Bofors artillery, please shutt up

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Patchesagain:
Augustus

Your "cold air is denser" is irrelevant

Cold air at altitude is denser than warm air at altitude

But cold air at altitude is still less dense than cold air at low altitude

The air temperature is largely irrelevant within the confines of what is being discussed.

And let me remind you, you know nothing about physics, you thought air at high altitude was more dense than air at low altitude because it was cold

This is why South African Universities are the best in Africa

This is why Nigerian Universities barely make the top 20

The effects will be balanced out. Theoretic Physics the altitude air is lighter because of less oxygen, but with the mountain snow it becomes colder and heavier, but it has a plus and minus effect.....that is now practical, called Applied Physics.

South African education did not tell you the difference between pure physics and applied physics, that is why your country imported Nigerian science teachers to save your backward brains from embarrassment in the international community

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mzilakazi:
That's a lie, the official Indian army says maximum range is 30 km.


http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Equipment/Artillery/354-155mm-Bofors-Fh-77b.html

That source you quoted is NOT Indian army official information, it is a private website.

The Indian army video is final authority and army guide website supports it, 42km or 41km if you wish.

CASE CLOSED
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mzilakazi:
I quote the same source as agaugust which proves that G6 can fire up to 67 km.


http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1207.html

Problem is that SANDF has on 38km range shell.

CASE CLOSED
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mzilakazi:
@Agaugust, truly your mind is messed up. I do not believe that you have studied physics at high school. In science and geography I was taught that air is less dense in high altitudes than in low altitudes. Moreover, I was equally taught that cold air is heavier than hot air, the reason is dependent on the molecules of air which tend to expand and move faster in high temperature. On the contrary, molecules of air tend to be compressed in low temperatures, making the air more heavy.

However, the composition of air is made of molecules of N2: H2: O2 etc and the heaviest of them being Oxygen. The oxygen as an element has a mass of 16 in periodic table, hence, if we were to do stoichiometry to calculate the molecular mass of oxygen (O2) we will have 16+16=32. So, oxygen has a molar mass of 32g/mol which appears to be heavier than other molecules of composition of air. So, you see how easy it is for air above our roof to be lighter than the one we normally breathe. Irrespective of the temperature, the status core will remain where the upper air will always be lighter than the lower air anywhere in the world. The density of air in Nigeria might differ with that of Russia because of temperature, but the common aspect will be that at altitude the air will always be slightly lighter in both countries but with different densities. It can never be that the density of air is the same in Russia from low grounds to high altitudes.


Well, I can see that you have drawn an example by using a missile and unwittingly seem to have forgotten that surface to surface missiles have a massive thrusting force due to their engines. Their engines can only drive them to a certain distance and shut down but the good thing is that they can be upgraded to extend the range if you have the competent engineers and technicians. That is something that artillery shells lack, since their range are merely dependent on the type of ammunition, charges and altitude. SA, however, has a new modern shells called VLAP which are similar to missiles and can reach the range of over 70 km at a faster speed than normal shells.

Lastly, I will recommend you to get your science skills in action and stop reasoning like a baby. This does not change the fact that G6 is superior than FH77B and it had always been and will always be.

Waste of time, I too have posted sources that say air is less dense at altitude, but I also posted the balancing other side that says cold air is heavier and reduces the speed/range of objects travelling through it, golf balls travels slower and lesser distance on cold days when the air is heavier.

My physics is very good and backed up with sources.

Your South African physics is internet copy and paste of theories of physics, you don't know the applied physics for practical effects and I am your teacher here, get it ?

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patches689:
Dude, I am not your tutor. I am not here to address your lack of education

It is clear you lack reading comprehension skills as well, because no one is talking about cold air. We are talking about altitude.

you are the only one here talking about temperature, because you cannot comprehend the argument or the (basic) laws of physics at play here.

Don't worry though, I don't blame you for your complete ignorance and utter lack of basic knowledge or general knowledge. I blame your countries education system.

I shall explain again (since your simple mind cannot grasp such basic concepts, and much like one training a dog, we shall have to do this many times)

- At high altitude air is less dense

- Less dense air provides less resistance and less drag

- This means projectiles retain kinetic energy for longer

- This means they travel further, like the shell of a FH77B

You not understanding something doesn't make me crazy, it just makes you poorly educated

Now I must ask, how much longer will you continue to embarrass yourself and waste our time?

I know you will say that, and I am just working you up from low altitude cold to high altitude, now chew on this :

[size=14pt]

Okay, so all army equipment used by the soldiers at high altitude lands, that is all artillery shells, RPG, missiles, and rifle bullets will travel with extra range increase of 40% ?

So, a surface to surface missile with 30km range, fired at sea level on low altitude grounds, will h.it target at 42km because @Patches new law of Physics has increased it's range at high altitude by extra 40% automatically ?

@Patches, during the fight on the Himalayas mountains, all rifles like AK-47, etc fired while deployed on your high altitude will have it's bullet travel extra range and increase from 400m to about 560m ? Right ?

Now show us a source to prove that, because we cannot see any military source that talks about these magical extra 40% increase in weapons range that will make Nigerian army Grenade launcher range to increase from 2.2km to over 3km !!!! Wow !!!

Please show us a source to prove this because ONLY PATCHES is saying it, prove it now !

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patches689:
Dude, I am not your tutor. I am not here to address your lack of education

It is clear you lack reading comprehension skills as well, because no one is talking about cold air. We are talking about altitude.

you are the only one here talking about temperature, because you cannot comprehend the argument or the (basic) laws of physics at play here.

Don't worry though, I don't blame you for your complete ignorance and utter lack of basic knowledge or general knowledge. I blame your countries education system.

I shall explain again (since your simple mind cannot grasp such basic concepts, and much like one training a dog, we shall have to do this many times)

- At high altitude air is less dense

- Less dense air provides less resistance and less drag

- This means projectiles retain kinetic energy for longer

- This means they travel further, like the shell of a FH77B

You not understanding something doesn't make me crazy, it just makes you poorly educated

Now I must ask, how much longer will you continue to embarrass yourself and waste our time?

I set a trap for you and you have fallen inside it

Less dense air begins immediately you go up from sea level, at every metre or feet you go up, even at 100 metres air is less dense, so the effect of less dense air should also affect artillery guns on a city just 500m above sea level, it does not only happen at mountain height.

Prove to me that at 500m in many African cities, the less dense air effect does not help increase artillery range

Also prove to me that the definition of high altitude meaning of the Indian army analysis is only 2.6km high mountain, the army captain did NOT mention any particulat height, and the most of Africa off the coast is about 500m to 8km high including ordinary cities and Kilimanjaro mountain ranges.

At high altitude, there is less dense air because there is far less oxygen to breathe, so how do they soldiers survive at that level of high altitude where the air gets less dense, so at the great altitude where the density of air reduces so much, human beings cannot survive for long as the soldiers will have much less oxygen to breathe and they will die.

So how does an army deploy to that great altitude and the soldiers stay there in position to fight without enough oxygen for survival ?


"Altitude and weather systems : As you go higher, the air's pressure decreases from around 1,000 millibars at sea level to 500 millibars at around 18,000 feet.

Effects of lower density on humans :

If you go high enough, either by climbing a mountain or going up in an airplane that does not have a pressurized cabin, you will begin feeling the effects of lower air pressure and density.

As air pressure decreases oxygen continues to account for about 21% of the gasses in the air as it does at sea level. But, there is less oxygen because there is less of all of the air's gasses. For instance, by the time you go to 12,000 feet or 3.6km the air's pressure is about 40% lower than at sea level. This means that with each breath you are getting about 40% less oxygen than at the lower altitude.


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/wdensity.htm

@Patches, your artillery gunners will die of shortage of oxygen by the time you get to where the altitude air is so less dense that your shell range will increase by extra 40%, that is almost half of the original range is added like magic !

Fool
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patches689:
Augustus the only source you have that says that the FH77B has a max range of 42km says that it is only achieved at high altitude

And he gives a different standard max range of 30km


So, are you saying that your only source rant says that the FH77B has a max range of 40km is a charade?

Are you saying the only source is a fallacy?

Ok, I agree. We can then consider theax range of the FH77B to be 30km

Congratulations on destroying your own argument and the only source that supports your claims.

Nope, TWO different reliable sources....

1. Indian army

2. America based website, Army guide website

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Patchesagain:
FH77 can acheive a max range at high altitude of 42km.

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So, you mean by firing Bofors at altitude on mountain, the range will increase from 30km to 42km because of cold air ? LOL

Extra 12km range extension like a rocket ? LOL.

Okay, so cold air increases artillery range by a whole 12km, then if any country in the world that has winter like in Europe and North America, places the Bofors on sea level low altitude during winter, the range of the gun will increase by 12km in the cold winter air at sea level ?

Wow ! Okay, so when any army equipment is used in cold winter, all artillery shells, RPG, missiles, Tanks, APC guns, and rifle bullets will travel with extra range increase of 40% ?

Wow, so in Russian winter or American cold winter, a surface to surface missile with 30km range, fired at sea level on low altitude grounds, will h.it target at 42km because @Patches new law of Physics has increased it's range in cold air by extra 40% automatically, Wow !!!

Okay, @Patches says the cold air at high altitude automatically increase the range of weapons fired by extra 40 % magic !

@Patches, all rifles like AK-47, etc fired in cold winter air at sea level will have it's bullet travel extra range and increase from 400m to about 560m ? Right ? @Patches, you are completely Craaaa.aaazy

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