₦airaland Forum

patches689:
No, Janes is respected. Military Factory is a passion project and not on the same level as Janes.

If Janes does not publish it then that is because no one knows.

3 websites gives 3 different service ceilings for same drone, so who is correct ?

patches689:
How will SAAF attack a surface target? JDAMS.

You want to say that they dont have a combat crew? Citations please

Suck it faggit, 2 SAN submarines conducting operations during Ex Young Eagle

((((((BOOOOOMMMMM)))))

How will SAAF attack a surface target?

Two subs sailing does not mean full combat crew on both, a simple sailing team can drive a submarine around for photo shows.

We know South Africa has a lot of fake things, like the Super Lynx ASW helicopters you have been photo showing us here for the past 5 years actually have ZERO ASW equipment or weapons inside them, you were showing us empty barrels and claiming it was full of wine !

((((((BOOOOOMMMMM)))))

Fraudsters !

FighterPilot:
I think we equally have to agree with your reliable source that its range on maximum is a mere 16 km.


You trusting BLOGS too much over reliable sources

Where does it say 16km range for PL-9C ? Quote it.

patches689:
1. So your naval stragergy is to hide in port and let us own your oceans?

2. Only one sub at a time?? Pic related

3. How will the NAF sink it??

How will SAAF attack a surface target?

Two subs sailing does not mean full combat crew on both, a simple sailing team can drive a submarine around for photo shows.

We know South Africa has a lot of fake things, like the Super Lynx ASW helicopters you have been photo showing us here for the past 5 years actually have ZERO ASW equipment or weapons inside them, you were showing us empty barrels and claiming it was full of wine !

Fraudsters !

patches689:
Where does it say in that link anything you have claimed?

You claimed landings that were bigger than falklands

Citation please

And FYI - your citation states that your landing during the war in biafra was a DISASTER

Quote where it said that it was a disaster, quote it you fraud !

Bonny landing was the end of Biafra, simple.

3rd marine is a whole army division, you don't know what division size is?

Britain was in Falkland at brigade size only.

Dummy, your Soweto country has ZERO capacity to do amphibious landing today and in 100 years to come
.

patches689:
1. Citation needed that submarine radar is on the conning tower... o wait!! Pic related!!

2. You said the ATR could detect it... so then show us with a citation

3. Again, irrelevant, provide citations


Big problem is: What are you going to do when you find the sub? Throw bricks at it?

1. Your own photo shows submarine radar is on the conning tower. # Suicide Comment

2. Show me a citation that your Super Lynx radar can detect objects on the sea

3. For what? Combat simulation?

If your submarine dares to use radar, it moves closer to the surface and becomes more vulnerable, it also begins to emit radar waves and it reveals it's exact position to enemy aircraft radar from 407 km away, the ATR-42 in PASSIVE MODE ESM will analyse your radar emissions and even jam it, our passive mode won't let your submarine know the ATR-42 is wrecking your radar operation ! Suicide move !

When my MPA/ISR aircraft finds your submarine snorkel, I will call in my missile drones or jets and helicopters to destroy your submarine, your sub is desperate for oxygen, that is why it is snorkelling for survival, that will be written in the autopsy report of it's untimely death
.

patches689:
And compared to your military?

We are better.

jl115:
1 SAN sub= No more NN......admitted by you yourself!!

When did I say that?

DictatorZAR:
Two submerged subs in your waters for two days is enough to take out your two OPVs and Thunder the rest of your gun boats are useless creek vessels not meant for high seas.

OPV will not wait for a submarine, it will move to harbour in there is threat. Unless you fight war without declaring war first, there are international laws of war, you don't just attack a sovereign state or UN will turn against you.

SAN has manpower to fully operate ONLY one submarine at a time.

Your sub can only survive 4 days under water, it will part surface to snorkel and NAF will sink it.

DictatorZAR:
The PL-9C is not even in the class of the top ten missile systems in the world yet the IRS-T and 5th gen A-Datar is. Where is your PL-9C outdated missile on this list of top 10 missiles.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/features/featurethe-worlds-most-effective-air-to-air-missiles-4167934/

That fake list of top 10 missiles does not include Russia's new 5th generation Novator K-100 missile that America is afraid of .

DictatorZAR:
This clearly shows you lack any knowledge on military or missiles.

Go do your research before I will expose your stu.pidity fool. The IRST was tested OVR before it was even brought into service anywhere in the world.
http://itweb.co.za/mobilesite/defenceweb/home/item_id-39260/

I know more about missiles than your country's minister for defence.

That IRIS-T tested in South Africa is the land based version, not the air launched that was tested somewhere else.

Msauza:
CH-3 specs as analysed by Beegeagle.


https://beegeagle./2015/01/28/special-focus-on-the-nigerian-militarys-new-chinese-built-ch-3-unmanned-air-combat-vehicles-armed-drones/


MISSION PROFILE
– reconnaissance in the combat zone,
– intelligence gathering
– precision strike missions
TECHNICAL DATA
* Cruising speed – 220 km/hr
* Loiter Time – 12 hours.
* Can be piloted as far as 200 kilometers from base
station
* Can send live feedback to the base station.
* Maximum takeoff weight – 640 kg
* Service ceiling – 5000 meters
* Maximum range – 2400 km

Umkhonto missile will kill their only one CH-3A and they will be left with nothing.

Conclusion.

Nigeria has no weapon in store to challenge SAN frigates.

You want us to bring in Beegeagle as source on this forum? You have to make up your mind, you say it's a blog
.

patches689:
Posting a blog as evidence

Into the trash it goes!!

Nope, it's not a blog, the database section is different, you cannot edit it, and is not based on speculation. The blog section is totally different from the database. It's a two in one website, like people comment on defenceweb but you cannot edit it's database. Dunce

Msauza:
PL-9C Has the same speed as umkhonto which is Mach 2. Both its AAM and SAM version.


http://www.deagel.com/Air-to-Air-Missiles/PL-9_a002626001.aspx


http://www.armyrecognition.com/china_chinese_army_missile_systems_vehicles/pl-9c_shorad_short_range_ground-to-air_missile_technical_data_sheet_specifications_pictures_video.html

Umhkonto missile speed is slow at 2,500 km/h.

PL-9C missile speed is about double that of Umkhonto, PL-9C speed is about 4,300 km/h confirmed from China.

PL-9 IR-guided missile was first developed in the late 80s based on PL-8/Python-3 technology and is for export only. It has an all-aspect InSb seeker and a radio fuse. Its range is 500m minimum and 16km maximum. Speed is Mach 3.5 and load is 40g. Its forward control fins look similar to those of AIM-9L (double delta). The latest variant of PL-9 is called PL-9C with improved multi-band IR seeker and a new programmable digital processor giving it a greater IRCCM capability and higher killing probability. Its range is also increased to 20km. Here two PL-9C AAMs are seen being carried by a F-7PG fighter to be delivered to PAF. However PAF eventually decided to procure AIM-9Ls for its F-7PG fleet instead. PL-9C is expected to be the standard air-to-air weapon for the new F-7NI/BG/NM series exported to Nigeria, Bangladesh and Namibia.

http://chinese-military-aviation..ca/p/missiles-i.html

Umkhonto is a freaking weak missile.

MikeCZAR:
That's more than four days you realise right?

Yes they are ghosts. Sweden tried hunting a similar ghost last year.

You have nothing to counter submarines!!!!

Your navy warships will be called back to naval bases.

4 days is not a useful naval blockade. After 4 days your submarine will die.

Sweden did not use aircraft to hunt the submarine, the worst enemy of submarines is enemy aircraft, they destroy them more than ships can do.

Msauza:
If the writer of that blog did not have any information about it ceiling at the time of publishing does not mean other sources won't.

The maximum ceiling of CH-3 is 6000m
Wiki put it at 4km.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CASC_Rainbow

Umkhonto will kill it dead

Finish and Klaar.

My source is not a blog, it's military factory website and world respected as a military data source. Even Jane's defence does not publish the drone max ceiling.

Your Wikipedia is an unreliable source, anybody can edit it.

Now you landed two sources that disagree with each other, one says 4km another says 6km, so which one is right? Mumu

Sorry your source is garbage....loser .

patches689:
They are Super-Rapids

Confirmed with sources

Stop wasting our time

Dont drag this forum back to that issue, SAN confirmed Valour frigates have NO modern super rapid guns, I proved it here, I would rather log out than go back to old concluded arguments that add no value,

patches689:
1. Nigeria does not conduct high intesity naval combat training with anyone

2. That assault was a failure and was not bigger than the falklands war

This is boring

Bonny landing of 3rd marine commandos, a whole division size in operation OAU 1968, was the defeat of Biafra.

Nigeria landed about 20,000 troops on sea shore, the whole British army in falkalands war was about 9,000 troops.

South Africa has NEVER done amphibious landing in your SANDF or SAN war history, only NN has done it in Africa.

Nigerian military amphibious landing on Biafra was a huge success. South Africa has never attempted such a combat feat because your navy and army have ZERO amphibious war capacity, your entire army does not even have one single amphibious armoured vehicle and your military chiefs have no brain to plan a massive amphibious assault.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/nigeria/marine-commando.htm
.

patches689:
1. Citation needed that snorkeling submarine cannot use radar

2. Citation needed that ATR can detect an object witg the RCS of a snorkel

Until you post proof for these two things, your entire argument falls flat

You don't need a citation to tell your dumb head that a properly snorkelling submarine only protrudes a snorkel, the radar is on the submarine hull or conning tower underwater and radar does not work through water, it's an air wave you fool ! Your physics teacher told you that radar waves travel trough water, or radar is used from ships to detect submarine under water? Why was sonar invented to replace radar for scanning through water? Mumu !

You show me the RCS size of your subs snorkel, lets see if it's as tiny as you think.

ATR-42 has high power Gabbianno radar, it has long range TV camera, and FLIR for detecting the massive diesel engine heat pouring out of your snorkel's exhaust pipe, the RCS does not matter to a visual TV or thermal detector you dunce !
.

Msauza:
Your F7 is handicapped.

Your Gripen is crippled.

Msauza:
BWAHAHAHA… SA IS THE FIRST TO INTRODUCE THE COMPLEX TECH OF SAM MISSILE THAT CAN LOCK ON TO OTHER MISSILES AUTOMATICALLY AND SHOOT AT THEM DOWN. UMKHONTO MISSILE CAN DO THE PIONEER OF SM-6 YET THEY ARE BOTH NOT CALLED ANTI-MISSILE MISSILE. YOU ARE STILL BACKWARD WITH TECHNOLOGY.

From manufacture:



http://www.deneldynamics.co.za/products/missiles/air-defence-missiles/umkhonto

I quote:

The missile ishigh-velocity and infrared homing, providing all-round defence against simultaneous attacks from missiles and aircrafts. Although, this is a surface to air missile, it is also capable of taking out stationery surface targets. The Umkhonto was designed with a 23 kg warhead for High-kill probability, unlike other SAM missile systems in its class. Quote closed.

Umkhonto kills other missiles as proven and tested.

Case-closed.

Show me source that says South Africa is the first country to produce a missile that can lock on to other missiles, there is NOTHING like that in the weblink you posted, fraudster !

For your info, USA was the first in the world to test a partially effective anti-missile missile called the PATRIOT, and it still missed target many times during Iraq gulf war.

However, what you do not know is that missiles are different, the class of missiles that are usually stopped with missile are slow speed cruise missiles and ballistic missiles.

Cruise missiles can have average speed of about 800 km/h, then you can attempt a stop with a 2,200 km/h Umkhonto missile.

PL-9C missile has speed of about 4,000 km/h and so how does a much slower Umkhonto stop that, by magic and juju?

You don't know that there are subsonic and supersonic missiles, and the speed difference can be as different as 800 km/h to 4,000 km/h.

If you cannot catch up with somebody running at double your speed, you cannot stop him.

jl115:
How many days are there in a 100 hours Augustine?

Far too few days for a naval sea blockade

jl115:
1. Daks will be replaced by 2018
2. Ratels have been upgraded to mk3 status, and are also being partly replaced by the Badger IFV.
3 Only a handful of Olifants are not upgraded to MK1B and MK2 standard
4 Nothing Wrong with our Casspirs, even today they are still considered as one of the best MRAPs on the market, they have also been upgraded to MK3 status.
5 Nothing wrong with our Samil trucks, even you said you like them!!
6 Still one of the longest firing 127mm MLRS systems in the world!!
7 Nothing wrong with our Cessna's, they are perfect light transports for our conditions and have been upgraded throughout the years.
8 Vulture UAVs are part of the G5 and G6 artillery system and work perfectly.

[size=13pt]According to your own Defence minister and military experts :

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2015/09/15/SANDF-goes-shopping

The report actually confirms that :

"Some of the equipment that must be replaced dates back to the 1950s, including trucks and aircraft."

Helmod said "Critical equipment, including trucks and armoured infantry vehicles, need to be replaced. We desperately need light anti-tank
weapons and reconnaissance vehicles. Our artillery and antiaircraft weapons systems need upgrading."

Stupart agreed that a lot of SANDF equipment had to be replaced
. [/size]

MikeCZAR:
Short legged! That's what subs do they can anywhere and gives the commander great flexibility.

You can search days and days!!!

Data regarding how long it can stay underwater is classified.

Nope, underwater time is about 100 hours maximum.

Only a fool needs days and days to find a Submarine that can only submerge for 100 hours....you think submarines are ghosts ? Fool
.

MikeCZAR:
ATR-42 range: 800-900km.

Taking off from inland air force bases that range is further reduced, searching the entire sea for a submarine which might long be 1000km out at sea recharging for the next attack.

To detect the sub you have to pray for it to snorkel.

The opposing navy is in control as your vessels can't operate freely.

You come again with false figures on ATR-42, who told you it's travel range is only 900 km ? Post source. It has 11 hours flight endurance and radar range 407 km detection, if it flies for 5 minutes the radar has scanned over 2,000 km of sea water line. Fool !

1,000 km away what is your submarine doing inside Angolan's waters? You have 1,000 km range torpedo to fire from Angola to Nigeria? Are you blockading Angolan waters or Nigerian waters ? Fool !

Nobody prays for diesel submarine to snorkel, it must do so in 2 days or else the engine battery will die and it will crash into sea bottom. Fool !

Better come to Nigeria and buy common sense, I don't know what's missing in your skull, maybe medula oblongata.

MikeCZAR:
Tell me what scenario will an Umkhonto missile be intercepting such missile, so I can better make you understand how missiles work.

Ask your Southie friends who claim Umkhonto will stop an F-7 missile fired on a Super Lynx.

MikeCZAR:
You think modern submarines are like WW2 U-Boats.

They have radar warning or radar systems.

A submarine can be anywhere trying to detect a snorkel at sea is just madness.

Fool, radar does not work from underwater, your submarine snorkelling level does not allow it to use radar that is submerged under water.

Snorkels stick out of the ocean surface into the air, they are heat exhaust tube for running the diesel engine, thus producing heavy thermal emissions for enemy aircraft FLIR to detect. Also, powerful enemy aircraft radar like NAF ATR-42 or Beechcraft will detect the snorkel tube sticking out above the sea surface, and long range TV camera with image magnification will see both the snorkel and the water white on blue wake it makes as the submarine travels along.

You see the difference between Agaugust on Nairaland and the Augustine on Beegeagle? Agaugust has no respect for your diesel engine submarine, so come back and talk to us when you have a nuclear power submarine that will not snorkel for a whole year and stay underwater as long as the sailors have food to eat.

MikeCZAR:
So what are ypu saying?

The missile will fly at that during perfect conditions against a none evading target.

Show us where a 2,200 km/h missile has been used or tested to stop a twice faster 4,000 km/h missile. Show us, you dummy
.

MikeCZAR:
Diesel subs are quieter than nuclear subs, from the SA navy constantly whooping the opposition in exercises to the Chinese diesel sub popping up near a carrier group.


You lack understanding of naval warfare.

A snorkelling Submarine's engine quietness has nothing to do with airborne radar/thermal/camera detection by enemy aircraft you fool

MikeCZAR:
The tests determine if the missile performs as expected and designed to.

Why are you calling the PL-9C "a supersonic missile"?

....because NAF's PL-9C missile is supersonic at about 4,000 km/h speed you dunce !

DENEL tested Umkhonto missile that has 2,200 km/h speed against a slow Sea Skua drone that has only 980 km/h speed....

#Marketing Fraud

Msauza:
Bwahahaha… CH-3 has only maxim ceiling/altitute of 6km and cruising ceiling height of 5km. I can feel for it already.

http://www.popsci.com/did-armed-chinese-made-drone-just-crash-nigeria

No maximum ceiling is confirmed for CH-3 drone on internet. Manufacturer has classified it. Most reputable military websites are silent on the maximum ceiling .

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1378

DictatorZAR:
Look at this bull shiiit I'll respond to it in due time and even prove some of the aircraft you posted are also non operational.

I dare you !!!!!