₦airaland Forum

olabowale:
@TayoD: I am very shocked that you and Havila are backslapping each other! Shameful is this attitude,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, A man is approaching a matter with clear LOGIC, you have a problem with it,,,,,,

'Jack-of-all-trades' Haji Olabowale,
You dont even know the meaning of backslapping, and you are talking of logic, sir. Show us any iota of logic in a bizzare faith that believe, among others, that with ablution, your sins are dripping off to the ground. Now how logical is that?, if not an opportunity to live in "antinomianism". (check your dictionary). Logic,,,dont even go there
We just presented easier analogies to aid in your understanding of the awesome omni-present, spiritual God, so what's shameful in that?, dont start pointless and docile tirades.

olabowale:
@TayoD: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I have made a name for myself in specialised banking operations. Am I going to discuss that with "you and people like you"? No. Your knowledge will not be able to gasp it!

I come from a bloodline which is drenching in business. From a little that I have spoken about myself, you shpould be able to find out about my name,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,What you people in the christendom are doing, an ignorantly, not aware of it, because of your blind faith, is that you are the one forcing people to accept your Blind faith,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,>

@Olabowale,
C'mon what really is your stress! I would have ignored your long but "empty" post above, if not that you mentioned Havila twice in it. Is it a crime that TayoD simply introduced himself as a fellow Ijebu man before you start ranting about your "fathers bloodline and mother's bloodline"? Why are you so obsessed with vanity of life with this 'elitist' mentality of 'I am this, I am that'? This is a forum for intellectual exchange of different opinion, if you can't stand it, why not quit. Do you know who TayoD is? Did he tell you he is unemployed before you talk to him in such a condescending manner; if you know the meaning. It is only a low insecure 'elitist' thinking that assumes everybody wants something from him and he is greater than everybody. TayoD simply made a jovial reference to our friend Onikunkewu and you started a boring 'authobiography'. Sir, nobody is interested in who you are or whatever your name is.!!!
",,,,,,,,,"you and people like you"(?),,,,!!! And you were referring to TayoD, another adult human being like yourself, created by God, that you don't even know? c'mom, that's really low of you, and smacks of a pride-blinded, insecure individual, and I thought you know better.
As per your beef with Awolowo, I am not interested neither do I give a hoot. Awolowo's achievements are still speaking for him decades after his death. People are still taking about Awo's factor in politics, education etc till today after many years; while people barely mention or remember your sex-obsessed philandering Baba Adini family friend Abiola outside myopic muslim community just less than a decade after his death.

As regards our gospel, whatever you say, nobody is forcing anybody to accept anything. We are only declaring what we know to be the truth in faith, and you cannot do anything about it. Is it getting to you? Then take it up with God, or the true prophets Moses, David etc (muhammed not included in true prophets, though!) Jesus is Lord, we will declare it, and there is no salvation through any other,  but by faith in the death and ressurection of Jesus Christ on the Cross!!! That is what separates us as Jesus Christ himself said: it separates us to the gentle Sheeps (believers) who know their Sheperd (Jesus Christ); and the Goats (unbelievers) who know they are blind, but stubbornly cling to empty lies of a sex-pervert prophet who was not even sure of his own salvation, talk about the blind leading the blind!! But we will declare the truth and will spread it even into your living room since you like watching TV a lot; why not come into the One fold of the body of Christ where your salvation is assured and secured, we will continue to invite you and others in love.
Talk about self-obsessed rantings, you are tops!!

TayoD:
Thanks Havila. I am still sure the guy will come back with more questions. this time, i will refer him to your daughter

goodguy:
I have been following this thread closely since it's inception, but never wanted to post.  But when I saw this last post of Havila, I couldn't but comment on it. Havila, thanks for that post.  Very perfect analogies there, especially that of the 3 states of water. I was actually engaged in an argument with two,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,

@TayoD and Goodguy,
You guys are very welcome! All the Glory goes to God Almighty. In fact, TayoD is the hero in this picture. I really admire his perseverance ; and just thought I should help out with the explanation to help understanding. It has proved very useful in explaining the concept of Trinity and evangelising to muslims friends. A question which you might expect with this explanation is that: 'what about before the birth of Jesus?'. In that case, I usually then go back to using the 'process' of creation in Genesis chapter 1, the various scriptures showing the appearances of the pre-incarnate Jesus in the old testament, the scriptures showing God is an "omni-present" spirit, etc etc, to show that the Trinity is not just a New Testament concept; but it is the nature of God which has been before the begining of the ages. God bless!

TayoD:
babs787,
You are still here? Can you for one just accept what Jeus said by declaring "I and my Father are One." If you do, do you still think the others verses are incomprehensible?

,,,,,,TayoD, well done for your perseverance . But in addition, understanding can also come by simplistically explaining the different roles for him to get understanding. You've been explaining the concept of authority to him, but he does not get it because of the level of your explainations. Now, this is the fact as we know it: POSITIONALLY or in NATURE; God is One Spiritual being existing and operating in three co-equal spiritual offices or persons: (1) God the Father is the Source of all authorities and power; (2) God the Son (Jesus Christ) is the Channel of all authorities and power; and God the Holy Spirit is the Agent of all authorities and power. Water, Steam and Ice are all co-equal as H₂O in Nature.

Now a simplistic analogy of the "Functionality" hopefully will make it simple and answer all the "great" questions above : Functionally; Assume God the Father is Kanji Dam, the "Source" where all authority and power of electricity comes from; God the Son is the "Channel" or all the cables by which the 'electricity' (authority) generated from 'kanji dam' will get to us individually/home/earth; and that God the Holy Spirit is the "Agent" or the actual electric power generated from God the Father, made available to us through the Channel or cables i.e Jesus Christ. Now, the source, channel and agent are all the same God IN NATURE but manifesting FUNCTIONALY in 3 different offices (i.e source, channel and agent) that functions differently. Just as Water, Steam and Ice although all H₂O in Nature, but they Function differently as liquid, gas and solid respectively.

A simplistic application of this analogy to the various questions above should give basic understanding of nature of the awesome God; then deeper understanding of the doctrine of Salvation will reveal the purposes of the various offices of God. In fact, my daughter got it just once!!!

olabowale:
@Havila:
(1) I have a life. I live a good and fulfilling life. The best that happens to me, is that I am not a disbeliever. I have hope in God.

(2) If we disappear, people like you will run rabid. You will confound the already confused. You may even shake the foundation of the belief system of few muslims. Taking into consideration of the condition of the world, where it is not popular to be Muslims, unrightly so,

(3) It may be possible that we will never meet each other, even as long as we both live. However, i want you to remember something, you can not ram your religion and its pauline doctrine into our throat.

(4) If when you were just a little boy, you were told, that some day, soon, you will be a grown man and even become a father, you probably will argue against the possibility.

(5) Then you will not have a glove off, tongue lashing from me. ,,,,,,,,,,,. To me you are a nobody.

@ Haji Olabowale,
I am here; still standing and always standing in the Lord Jesus Christ to the Glory of God the Father. So take your threats somewhere else. You are sounding frustrated, I dont want you to be!!. That anger in you is a 'spirit of resistance' which is temporarily working against the truth you've learned on this forum; but by the grace of the Living God, that resistance will fall according to God's will and purpose for your life in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. I have no doubt about the "hope you have in god"; the question is "which god?" Is it the true God of Love "who so much loved you and I, that he gave up his only begotten son as a sacrifice that whosoever believe in Him will not die but have everlasting life" or the god who is inconsistent in what he claims to create humanity from, how long it takes and it can't be found in heaven; a god who sanctions a selective doctrine of discriminating against disable people a.k.a Ayat, a god whose apostle sanctions sex with children, etc, etc.

Olabowale, take a look at your Quote 4 above, I am not surprised at that quote. You know why? Because it is an islamic thinking. As a young boy, I know by FAITH in God that I will grow up and do all that God has destined for my life to His glory. So, why should I or my parents argue? But I understand you! afterall, muhammed your prophet was not even sure of what his god-allah-will do to him at the point of death; so this thinking of insecurity is anchored in the belief in a false god. But the true God said to us that "I know my thoughts toward you all; thoughts of peace and not of evil to bring you to an expected end." So you see that this so-called allah that you can't put your faith or trust in, is not the one you should rest your hope or eternity on.
It is not me or TayoD or Davidylan or Babyosisi that is confounding you as you claim in quote 2; it is the truth and wisdom of God that we confess, profess and invite you into. This is because "God had chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the (wordly) wise" (1st Cor 1:27) because "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him."(1st Cor 2:14) So do you think you can stand against such truth? No you CANNOT, and dont even try it. I am sure many muslimis and muslimas have silently received revelations on this our forum, even you. I therefore DECLARE with ALL AUTHORITY in the name of JESUS CHRIST the SON of the LIVING GOD that the words you've heard and read will shine light into your heart, AMEN. Nobody is 'ramming' anything down your throat, we only come here and declare the truth that we know and believe in by faith in Lord Jesus , abi are we doing anything else?

As per your gloves, keep it on or off; from your previous experience with me, you know there is "no shaking" on my side. However you want it, bring it on; but I will come to you "firmly" in truth and in love declaring the truth to you and others. As before in your "elitist" mentality you, OLABOWALE, can call me a nobody (quote 5) it is aboslutely of no effect, consequence or meaning; because I KNOW what God the Father of our Lord Jesus called me. God said I am His CHILD!!!!!! Ameeeen; listen: "For ye are all Children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."(Gal 3 vs 26),,,,,,,,,,and that "because we are sons, God hath senth forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father."(Gal 4 vs 6). Thus, I am a Child of God and he is my father. But, to me you are not a nobody, but 'somebody' who is yet to know what God has done for him; and therefore is contented with being the "slave" of a deity who cannot save a.k.a allah. Wont you rather be a 'son' than a 'slave'?

olabowale:
@Havila: The person who said you should be slapped silly and call it a day, is probably right. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, whereby you explain your vain desire to us, forcing us to accept them as truth. Tell me, Pope or Archbishop Havila of Ekiti Parapo, is this the quality of a believer, knowing fully well that a prophet has higher believing quality that ordinary believer and you people blasphamed and call that 'disbeliever' God the Almighty!?

@Haji Olabowaleeeeeeeee!!
Ha aaah, are you getting frustrated? You better dont, this is the season to rejoice in the Lord Jesus. First, let me wish you and your family a merry Christmas and a prosperous new year in advance. Wisdom of the true God has come into your heart and family, and the Light will dislodge all the previously held beliefs of deception you are still stubbornly clinging to, in name of Jesus Christ, Ameeen. Now let me pummel your posts. Forget about what somebody else said, I want to assume you are more matured and exposed than that, but if you say he "is probably right", well,,,,,,,,,,,,whatever!!!. I can see that despite your confusion, you now know about Lord Jesus Christ; but the hidden wisdom of God is still a mystery to you, hence you cannot comprehend how Jesus Christ "who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God; But made himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." (Phillipians 2 vs 6- I am not from Ekiti, but I am a Nigerian, praise God that's all that matter.

olabowale:
Havila, you are a Doctor. In your epidermiology, have you not observed when there is an epidermy, the people who are not afflicted by it are always grateful to GOD? ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Maybe you should just concentrate on your epidermiology, because your thinking is very poor. You probably know your stuff and that is just about it. Logical knowledge is not in your repertoire. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,. Afterall, it exposed Christianity to all,whoever has a good heart will reflect.

It is epidemiology and epidemics! No big deal, maybe I can't spell some engineering terms too. But Olabowale, I thought you should know better, but you are not showing it. For somebody who says disabled peoples are a sign to others to be grateful to allah, if you call me illogical I dont mind. If it's somebody's whose reasoning is truly scriptural, I would mind. As a Yoruba man, you know when such things like epidemics happen, yes, we give thanks to God for sparing us but we also say "a ko fi yo awon to s'ele si" i.e "we are not gloating over those who are affected." But your principle of Ayat is "gloating over people who are disabled because they are a sign to those not disabled to be grateful to allah!!; that is not of God or from God. But I understand if it is from allah, I again say it emphatically, allah is not the true Living God. Pa Ola, seek wisdom!! Therefore men who do not grow beards are disabled, or less of a man, c'mon think man, think (as you usually say )

olabowale:
If you do not know that a person who has full sight is grateful and sees as a sign of favor of God on him when he sees a person who is totally blind. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if you do not know that when you describe normalcy in mankind, whatever makes a person not fitting this normalcy, whoever fits it is often very grateful.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, If Jesus was God, when the common people of Israel seized him, why was he crying out to God? He was praying to himself at gashemenee and crying out to himself on 'the cross'? See how poor your concept and judgement are? Very poor indeed!

Again, I have highlighted your statement describing the concept of Ayat above, so everybody can see and judge how wicked such a thinking or concept is. No wonder, you have a lot of beggars in Northern Nigeria. Because according to your Ayat philosophy in Islam, a disable person is not favoured by your god, so he is condemed. But you live in America for God sake (I mean the true God's sake ), cant you see how disabled people are integrated into the society, working and contributing to the society, even shopping malls and schools must have disabled entry and exit facilities!!!. What is the purpose of the long years you spent over there if you can't reason out of this false islamic concept of discrimination, elitisim and wickedness you called Ayat.? As such, beardless men are a sign to bearded people to be grateful to your god for being normal!! Kai, Na real waa for you oo !! You see, I am not forcing you, but simply debunking all your false claims and beliefs intelligently and you can't comprehend it. That is the light and wisdom of God that I am inviting you to allow to come in to your life and to shine light into your darkness, bro. Nothing wrong in "getting" information from TV, but Television documentaries are not the source of "seeking" wisdom for the wise. I even watched a program called the Lost Gospels yesterday, but with the spirit of wisdom I can discern what is true and what is false scientific claims because I actively "sought wisdom" myself as an individual not simply "cramming" and believing all I hear on TV. C'mom, Pa olbasy, dont disappoint me

onikunkewu:
@TayoD, Havila, Davidylan.
1. I strongly believe that perfectoin belongs to God Almighty,If atall i misspell "Hebrew" as "Ibru" i think your mental faculty should tell you am referring to "Hebrew scripture" if atall you are elites as you claim.

onikunkewu:
We have converted people like you in portharcourt, Lagos, Ibadan and  one local government in Markurdi.Go and see how these people propagate Islam now, irrespective of  their tribes, occupations, marital status and gender.
TONIGHT am travelling to MECCA FOR HAJJ,

@Onikunkewu,

In fact, you are indeed 'onikunkewu' because the passages you 'cram' end up in your belly as your name suggests, and thus your head is completely empty. Had it been that the quranic passages enter your head, your brain should have sounded an alarm that this 'stories' do not make sense becaue it is human lies concorted by muhammed. So it is only one local government in markudi, wait until your wife and children accept christ.
Now you are going to Saudi to worship the idol called 'allah' and throw stones at the devil. Just make sure you are not crushed to death, because every year the idols in kaaba always get sacrifice of human blood through the stampede. Stay alive, so you can receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ into your life.
As per your misspelling, na lie. You can wrongly spell Hebrew as "Herberew, not as "Ibru". You did not know the correct spelling and now you are lying. Instead of going to adult literacy school, you are wasting money by going to Saudi Arabia.

olabowale:
@Havila:  
(1) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what I do in Nigeria is nothing I will discuss with you. I am sure, by Allah, it is beyong your league. There is nothing wrong being an American, but I never leave my Nigerianness. And I did not have to marry a woman to get it, either. This was not my dream and it was not a big deal to me. I do not hide behind a facade.

(2) My education is not your concern. I went to West Virginia Institute of Technology, with a BS education. Then I pursued a graduate program in Architecture in 84 at New Jersey Institute of Technology, after many years of break from academics. Today, I am in Investment banking. Alhamdulillah, well known and good at what I do. The point is this "since I did not study in Nigeria, I can only listen to those who did".

(3) My surprised though, is that you as a medical Doctor, do not know the states of emprayoic development, as the Qur'an clearly explains the distinctive stages.

(4) Someday, I will give you a phone number to call in Nigeria and I will give them instruction to attend to you and answer any question you may ask about me. There are Kings, but there are Kingmakers.

@ 'Bill Gate'-'kingmaker'-Haji Olabowale,
You will not cease to display your unfortunate "elitist" traits as much as you deny it. You know Yoruba's say "a leopard cannot hide it's stripes." In Quote 1 above, you said "what you do in Nigeria is not my bussiness" (correct, I'm not interested) and then in Quote 4 you want to 'show off' by giving me a number! Dude, get a life, I am not interested in whatever you are doing in your locality, most likely in your local masjid, not contributing any benefit to the society at large. You know Yoruba's also say "somebody who has never seen another person's farm, will say his father's farm is the largest." I responded to you because of your myopic statement of describing education in Nigeria as mediocre. Now in your confusion you've confirmed it; you said "you did not study in Nigeria, but only listen to what you are told". Why do you like listening to other people a lot?, why can't you for once have your own opinion based on knowledge? So upon all your self-professed "what you do in Nigeria", yet you do not know about Nigeria and have to listen to people! C'mon, don't you see how contradictory that sounds?. That's why I said most likely whatever you do is limited to being "mr big man" in your local mosque in ijebu-ode(?) or wherever!!
You said I should not bother about you education on one hand; but then you reel out your CV! I don't give a hoot, it's not about certificate, it is about showing it's worth sir. The same Olabowale who said: "Africans know nothing, and that Nigerians are tops among those who know nothing" in your earlier post, now you are saying "I never leave my nigerianess". Which 'nigerianness' are you talking about? The same 'nigerianness' that Nigerians know nothing or that you specifically know nothing, sir? I don't blame you, it's those who dash you their country's passport I blame.
Haji Olabowaleeeeee, c'mon!! stop this your "elitist" self-eulogization or take it somewhere else, I know Ijebu's like it, but it's not relevant to peoples with secured identity. Self-eulogization is a sign of insecurity; emotionally secured people don't need to 'praise' themselves to high heaves an "kingmaker" . Dont bother giving me any number, I am not interested at all at all in you, your education, your wealth, your zakat, etc. It is the salvation of your soul that matters to me; for Lord Jesus said "What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul" Even Bill Gate is not as loud as you, kai proper Ijebu-American
Just know that Jesus loves you and He is knocking at your heart.

NB: As per Quote 3; I don't have to respond to that again. It is simply,,,,,,,,,,in fact the only way to describe it is 'illogical tissue of lies'. if you know what I mean. You know my opinion on your quran. I am sure if your 'cardiologist' read his embroyology from the quran, he would be practising his 'cardiology' inside a masjid now. By the way if your cardiologist is also called Gboyega, then maybe I know him. But I hope he is not somebody just trying to claim the respect of "Great Ife"

@Ajiboyet,
My brother, all sorts have been said about Jesus Christ but His glory is for ever. We've heard all about Jesus and december 25th celebration. But no big deal. Regardless of when he was born, the important thing is our celebration of the meaning of his birth; because it was through his birth, or incarnation of God in flesh, that true Salvation and Peace came unto mankind. He is "Emmanuel", the God who choose to dwell with us. Jesus Christ is the Reason for the Season. Just like somebody said in a similar post to this, he said: "It does not matter whether Jesus was born December, January or Sartuday, if we ordinary human beings can celebrate our birthdays, why should'nt the whole world consciously celebrate the living God himself". I totally agree with him.
So, I wish you and your entire family a very Merry Christmas. May the peace of God dwell abundantly in your household, Amen.

@All,
Well I looked at the poster of this thread i.e Atiku07, he gave his location as "Ibadan, ibi Ole ti gbe jare oloun". Well for those who dont understand Yoruba, the translation of this is: "Ibadan, where the 'thief' is declared innocent; while the 'owner/honest' is 'found' guilty."
So, now you can understand his support for, and celebration of, the looter of the year 2006.

olabowale:
@Havila:
(1) But I thought you area Yoruba man. "Ajagbe" means the one who shouts down at, Not the one who barks. lol.

(2) After the secular education, the type of education that you sordidly got your gear stuck in, I went out to educate myself in other areas of descipline, both secular and spiritual. My geatest accomplishment is learning the Qur'an without having to sit in front of anyone.

@Pa Olabowale,
In your "elitist" attempt to be more american "immigrant" than the "original" ijebu man that you really are, you are loosing the sense of "figurative meaning/interpretation" and understanding of Yoruba. Maybe you are like one of those funny Nigerians with insecure personal identify, that I occasionaly come across in my travels. They are the one who always want to speak with twisted american slangs/phonetics, but unfortunately heavily laced with their local ibadan or ijebu accent. They end up sounding like a comedian.
Figuratively, in Yoruba, "Ajagbe" is NOT one who shouts but "one who barks"; because it is expected that no "normal human being" will "ja igbe". To shout at somebody as a normal human being is to "pa ariwo mo" that person. Do you now get the difference between the two?. Since it is a dog that "gbo" or barks; as such, a dog-like man that barks could be figuratively described as "ajagbe". So if you call yourself "ajagbe", then that's your problem, not mine . I wish you'all the best. But I wont call you 'ajagbe' because it is not good for your health, as I have explained the meaning figuratively speaking.

As per your secular/spiritual education, well it is obvious that "oku die ka'ato" in both areas. As for me, there is no difference between my professional job and my faith; because everything I do, I do it as unto the Lord and to the Glory of the God through faith in Jesus Christ. Maybe, you are lucky you learned your quran without 'sitting in front of anyone', probably they would have confused you more than you are now. Therefore, I pray that the true Salvation of God, that comes through the appropiation of the power in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, will come into your life and your family, Amen.

belloti:
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I was wondering who was God before his birth and what shall happen to those that died before the birth of Jesus. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Of course Jesus was a wonderful man (WRONG, WRONG, WRONG) with lot of beautiful messages from God. Where then did the confusion set in as to who really is the God.

@Belloti,
I am happy at the questions that you are asking. It is not your wisdom that is springing out this insightful questions, but the 'spirit of God' that wants you saved. Soon, if you do not resist Him, you will know and accept Jesus as your Lord God.

(1) Jesus is God before his birth/incarnation; He appeared many times in the old testament in what is called "Theophany or Christophany". An example was his appearance to Abraham in company of two other angels when He told Abraham about the 'coming' of Isaac [Ref: Gen 18 vs 1-8: "And the LORD appeared unto him (i.e. Abraham) in the plains of Mamre: and he (i.e Abraham) sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; and he (again Abraham) lift up his eyes and looked, and lo, three men stood by him,,,,,,,,"] Another example was His appearance to Hagar in Genesis 16 vs 13, or to Moses in Exodus 3 vs 14, or to Gideon in Judges 6 vs 22, again to Abraham in Genesis 22 vs 14, and to Manoah in Judges 13 vs 18, 22. In all this appearances, His presence was recognised as not being that of a mere angel; and He was called GOD. Ordinary angels or prophets in the old testament were ALWAYS identified as the "Lord's messenger", e.g Hagai 1 vs 13, etc.

(2) As per what happens to all those who died before the birth/death of Jesus; this question will answer your curiosity about what happened in the 3 days when Jesus was "dead". In those 3 days when God the Son "died", he descended into "Hades" also called Sheol in Hebrew. Hades was the place where all peoples who died before the sacrifice/passion of Jesus go to. It is divided into a part referred to as Abraham's bossom or PARADISE for the good peoples who lived by the teaching of the law and the prophets, and the other part which is a place of torment for the wicked ones. Remember when Jesus hung on the cross, he told the penitent thief that "today, you will be with me in PARADISE" in Luke 16 vs 19-31. Upon ressurection, one of the many accpmplishments of Jesus Christ was to remove all old testament saints (i.e. those saved peoples who died before birth/death of Jesus as mentioned) from Abraham's bossom or Paradise, and lead them into the presence of God the Father in HEAVEN. Since the death and resurection of Christ, every believer who dies go immediately into the presence of God in Heaven.
I will now give you Scriptural references in support and to confirm it: Primary references: Psalm 16 vs 10, Psalm 68 vs vs 17-19; Supporting references: Ephesian 4 vs 8-9; Luke 16 vs 19-31; Matthew 28 vs 6)

Now Belloti, you claimed to be a scholar, try and read all the scriptural references I have provided and come back with any question. You can borrow a bible from your friend, Onikunkewu, because he said he has 27 different versions!! Imagine!

onikunkewu:
@TayoD
(1) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,infact I am a "memmorizer" of the whole bible from Genesis to revelation (but mind you am talking of the original "Ibru scripture" not the fabricated bibles you guys are using this days for money making and not preaching the real gospel of "Christ" Jesus (prophet Issa.peace be upon him).
(2) For your information, i am a comparative religion study lecturer in one of the Nigeria Universities. If you press me the more, it's like i will let you know somethings you don't understand in your bible and the so called christianity, with quotations from the Bible and Quran.
(3) With me here are 27 different bibles not in one way similar to each other,to show how bible has turned to something else. Please brothers let people see the original Ibru scripture and compare with the Quran if there are differences atall.

@ 'Ustas' Onikunkewu,
, You are indeed a "lecturer in comparative religious study" either in your own imagination; or teaching little children in your local masjid. I dont think even Usman Dan Fodio University can accomodate somebody like you. I respect Belloti because of his writing style, peaceful mien and dialogue skills; but a casual look at your post quoted above shows an obviously uninformed individual.
So you are a "memmorizer" of the whole Bible; well Bible is not the Quran you are commanded to "cram". We learn from the words to gain wisdom, not cram them into an empty head. You post did not show any derived wisdom from the "memmorization".
Are you now using Yoruba to type? What do you mean by original "Ibru" scriptures. I did not know that the Olorogun "Ibru" family of Delta state have their own scripture. Oh' or you are talking of "Hebrew" scripture? since the english one you obviously dont understand, how will you learn anything from Hebrew scripture? see me, see wonder oh!How did I know you dont have understanding? You agreed and referred to Jesus as "Christ" many times in your post, but yet you stll say he is one 'prophet issa' of your bizzare Quran. Do you know the meaning of "Christ" that you agreed that Jesus is?
Asking you to show any difference in the various Bibile versions you have will be a waste of space and time, first because there is none, and second because you will "find" what is not there in your confusion. There are different "versions" of Bible, not "different Bibles."

@Belloti and Davidylan,
Okay, okay my dear brothers; enough now! let there be peace, and there is peace! "Blessed are the peacemakers, for we shall be called children of God." So let me receive some blessings here by brokering a peacedeal. God bless you both.

Now, Belloti, having answered your question on Christianity; can you summarise the various responses and explainations we've given you on Christianity, so we can see whether you understand it or not. Thereby we can clarify any grey area. Now that is called Learning.

olabowale:
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,They are arrogant, being friends of Shaitan. They themselves are shayatin inns. They believe that Shaitan has no effect on them, because they are filled with the holy spirit. Yet, they say in their Bible that Jesus, their Lord and God and Saviour was tempted three times by the evil one. These Africans know nothing. Nigerians, they take the lead! You are dialoging with them.

@ Sheikh Olabowale,
Whatever, you dont know better.!!! Dont worry about which generation I belong to. I am good at what I do, my Ife certificate was the foundation for my further degrees from the topmost university in Europe. I am in high demand globally to the glory of God professionally; recently came back from the topmost biological/pharmaceutical research facility in Calif and the Research Triangle of Washington; where I educated them on the most recent findings on genetic epidemiology of infectious diseases in sub-Sahara Africa. All is to God's glory, our wisdom and righteouness are like filthy rags to him. You and you 'reference' cardiologist can sit over there calling education in Nigeria mediocre because you dont know better. Nairaland is a product of one young Nigerian who is doing his best to make the best out of what he learned inspite of the limitation; and yet he is a product of the mediocre education. I will always be grateful to my Ife background, pa Olabsy and I am now doing my best to collaborate with my former teachers to improve the standard. That is what people with secured identity and clear sense of purpose do; not sit away and point fingers like you and your "reference" cardiologist. who probably was an struggler academically at ife then. As for you, did you even go to any school sir, whether mediocre and 'unmediocre'? If not, no wonder; but if so, it is not showing sir.

So as for you, continue watching TV to get the education and information you need, but when we tell you that your arguements are shallow, dont be surprised because you can't know more than what you heard. My knowledge is wide about your deception because I "seek" wisdom widely and divinely, and have confounded you all.
You arrant posts now know no bounds. Now Africans know nothing and indeed Nigerias know nothing, yet your name is Olabowale. Indeed you top those who dont know nothing sir, seriously and you show it. Probably, dey don dash you one american passport. Kai, wonders shall never end on Nairaland.

@ 'Ajag'be mo keferi Olabowale,
I hope you know the meaning of 'ajagbe' before you rejoice in the title, it is 'the one who barks at'. Now you know the animal that backs!! Well, I remember the former older of that title in Ibadan. He should be dead by now. He indeed was a 'barker', a real alsatian who cannot and did not bite before his demise.

Pa Olabsy, with the amount of books I have read in my life up till now, you'll run for cover if you see 5%, your short stories do not matter at all. I totally understand all you wrote, and it is unfounded lies.

olabowale:
(1) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,you are very juvenile> Make fun as you wish. You will be crying very soon. Remember the day of rekorning is coming.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, You take the word of Allah as jest.

(2) @Havila: Around the world, you will see people born crippled or blind, for example. But in normal condition, you have normal birth of children. The children develop strong legs that are good and adequate to support the weight and walk without any defficiency. Those who are born, with any defficiency is what we call Ayat from God. It is a sign to those who are normal, without any defficiency to be grateful to God. For those who have any defficiency, they too, should be grateful for whatever is left as normal in their person/lifes.

(3) You should go to national geographic website and learn how fibble your religion is. I pity una! No wonder Seun says he will never return to Christianity, the religion of his parents.

@ 'Ayatollah' Olabowale,
Response to 1: Unfortunately, you are the one who is displaying such 'juvenile mannerism' and 'adolescent psychology' by resorting to cursing simply because people found your 'research' very ludicrous, ridiculous and untrue. Nobody will cry because they boldy disagree with your "Bearded man Theory". There was a 'dunceman' somewhere who was looking for evidence that allah is not the God; hope he is still reading.

Response to 2: Olabsy, so according to you and allah, men like Lafile , who have never grown a beard in their lives or are not naturally hairy, are disabled, abnormal and "are called Ayat from God" (your words). Well, that must be a wicked god and it is not the true God. I and others need to continue shouting to the world that our God is not the same as allah of the quran; because God is love and he said in Genesis after making man that "everything He created is Very Good" and our God looked at us, all human beings, and said in Psalms that "We are wonderfully and Fearfully Made". Even peoples born with disabilities or acquired disabilities are wonderfully and fearfully made, have you heard of Professor Hawkins, Stevie Wonder, one of my former professors is deaf ,etc. It is only a wicked god who will claim that some of his creations are abnormal/incomplete and thus are example to the others to be grateful a.k.a Ayat: such a god is allah but thank God we know "it" is NOT the creator but only trying to lay claim by deception. Do you know that genetic differences could determine different hormone level which could determine things like baldness, 'hairiness', 'beardedness', height, complexion etc? That was unknown to muhammed when he was concorting the lie inside a cave on behalf of allah. But because of wisdom from the true God, we now know that regardless of our physical or genetic differences, we are all wonderfully and fearfully made to the glory of God, Amen!!!

Response to 3: Well, true wisdom is not on Nat Geo channel, Alhaji Ola; the book of Proverbs said "Seek wisdom, and it shall find you." Sitting in front of TV is an example of "getting" wisdom, NOT "seeking" wisdom; because you "get" somebody's own opinion which is very limited. But when you "seek" wisdom, you are really enriched and enlightened to "Know the truth, and it shall set you free." Now, this principle of "Differential Appreciation of God according to ability or disability called Ayat", doe it sound like divine wisdom? Hell No! It is another lie from the pit of Hell, sir. Send it back to allah.

Quote from Olabowale:
@Davidylan: Ol boy, I beg, make una watch National Geographic Channel. You go see, about Christianity. Them dey make am for series since Sunday. Tell Baba Havila now.


@'Ustas' or 'Ayatollah' Olabowale:
I will try and catch up on the series as an 'exercise' if I have time; but why do you want to know about Christianity from the National Geographic Channel. I mean, check this out: if I want to know about the North Pole, or the Antartic or about culture in India, I will listen, or if I want to know about the soil or geography of Israel, etc I can also learn from Nat Geo; but I cant learn on christianity or Islam from Nat Geo. There are better sources that I can independently learn from e.g the Bible, the Quran et Hadiths, textbooks on the origin/doctrine/beliefs etc of the faiths. Did I hear you say that's dificult? Well, I'm sorry the only known antidote for ignorance about anything is to independently seek knowledge about it. Not 'cramming' other peoples opinion on TV; or from the 'ustas' in masjid who was probaby taught by the senior 'ustahs'; who himself does not know, for example, why muhammed keeps his beard but only that it is sunnah and makes you 'perform well in bed.'

belloti:
Am glad to hear that Havila. This place is not a battleground. We came here to learn from experts like you and the learned brother. But you know i shall always be on his side, the side of the Truth.

,,,Yes I know you will and I am not surprised: That is called CLOSED REASONING. It is the same reason that your 'fellow jammat' will start maiming and killing peoples in Nigeria, Somalia, Turkey etc because of a cartoon published in far away Norway. It is the same "closed reasoning" that makes them to be "always on the side of truth" without knowing what is the Truth. You are indeed a "scholar". You've seen some christians disagree with other Christians on some issues in this forum but eventually we take it to the scriptures for finality; that's because such 'closed reasoning' is not compatible to 'scholarly acquisition' of knowledge because if you agree blindly, you can't know more than the blind. Get wisdom!

Quote from Olabowale:
[@Havila: On the 16th of December, 2006, your response to me started with you saluting me? Abi? Even now, in your most recent response to me, it was the same salutation. Welcome. The training is very grounded, indeed. The younger 'jammat' to cul a phrase from you may tend to respect you. For me, I should not, since you have told me that i am older than you. I appreciate you to a point. That's all. Unfortunately, you can not see logic in my responses. That is good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,]


@'Prof' Haji Olabowale,
You are very welcome anytime and anyday. As per the younger 'jammat', well don't worry about them; let each person show his personality and maturity. I am not bothered about who respects me or not. I am a man of firm principles and my standing "earns" me respect, I dont 'ask or beg' for it.
Anyway, your analogy of the kuaresh people or whatever is not germaine because you know I don't believe in your concocted book of fallacy variously called Quran/Koran/Al-quran Kariim,etc or the lies contained therein. Which one are you talking about sef, the one compiled by Abu Bakr or the one with the so-called 'satanic verses' ripped out? whatever and whichever, it's all BS.
The topic questions have been scripturally answered variously but understanding of the poster is limited for now; but you are all in our prayers that "your eyes of understanding might be opened, so you can know the riches of your inheritance in glory"; in simple english, that means that your mind be divinely enlightened to receive the true Salvation of God which is by grace and also know how assured or certain is that salvation that comes through acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.
By the way, Olabsy, stop displaying such limited capacity that the best research you do is to sit in front of Television and listen to what National Geographic tells you about Jesus/Christianity. I dont need TV to know about Islam by listening to other peoples opinion, I read the Quran,  I'll read about muhammed and his deceptive doctrine and boldy declare it with evidences and in love. That's my mandate.
At least, your neophyte Belloti called himself a "scholar" somewhere; but I am yet to see the 'scholarly' product other than the same'ol masjid gossips about what Christianity is really is or not.

@Belloti,
You are reading with your eyes closed; or probably doing selective reading. You can't drive a wedge between my friend Olabowale and myself; in your attempt to gain a friend in islam. Never in my posts have reciprocated Olabowale's direct insults on me. But you are confusing my 'descriptions' or "classifications" of his 'posts' or 'opinion' with insulting him as a person. You probably have "selective dyslexia" that makes you close your eyes to Olabowale various times calling me/us all sorts of names and insults but that's settled between us; I dont have to explain myself to you, gaskiya?
So, please keep your selective advice to yourself. Pa Olabowale is my main man and that is none of your business, aboki!.

@Belloti,
You are reading with your eyes closed; or probably doing selective reading. You can't drive a wedge between my friend Olabowale and myself; in your attempt to gain a friend in islam. Never in my posts have reciprocated Olabowale's direct insults on me. But you are confusing my 'descriptions' or "classifications" of his 'posts' or 'opinion' with insulting him as a person. You probably have "selective dyslexia" that makes you close your eyes to Olabowale various times calling me/us all sorts of names and insults but that's settled between us; I dont have to explain myself to you, gaskiya?
So, please keep your selective advice to yourself. Pa Olabowale is my main man and that is none of your business, aboki!.

olabowale:
@All the christians: Material source from a non Muslim: Book Title: Muculess diet Healing system.
Writer: Professor Arnold Ehret.
Publisher: Ehret Literature Publishing Company.
Location: Beaumont, CA. 92223.
Year published: Cory right; January 12, 1953, Number 84332.

On page 174: The beard of man is a secondary sex organ. Beardless and hairless and bold, makes for a second rate sexual quality. in every respect. See Judges, Chapter 16; 13 to 18. From the Bible you will have remnant of truth, always.
Boys, you see, even a none muslim man knows a good quality when it hits him in the face! So the muslim men who wear beard  have 2 and barely have one, since you are beardless.

Haji Prof Olabowale,
It is insufficient to just post his conclusions like this: why not summarise the design and conduct of the study that lead to this conclusion; that will be more informative. That is if you understand it.
We know that hormonal levels could differ in different men which could influence physical characteristic. That is no news because it is biological. But how is this now related to the command to keep beards long. So, a muslim man who naturally or biologically does not grow much facial hair as explained cannot be a good muslim? And secondly, why are you so consumed by sex, sex, sex. Why must everything be related to sex in Islam?
'Beard is a sign of sexual prowess in Islam'; 'Women who refuse to cover their heads are like exposed meat according to another Islamic scholar'. 'Jannat (islamic idea of heaven) is loaded with virgin boys and girls for unlimited bedding' ; 'Ayatollah Khomeini sanctioned deriving sexual pleasures even from babies in his book'; etc etc
Is there nothing more to life in Islam than sex??

@Davidylan,
I am impressed that you are not provoked into 'retaliating' to "Dunceman's" name calling; otherwise we would have reduced ourselves to his level of ignorance. He is just spewing obvious ignorance out of immaturity and lack of knowledge. For a guy who is so quick to point out who is and who is not a christians, he does not even know who God is. Just ignore him, jare. He is looking for company!!

@Muki, muki
I wont get tired of telling you I can't attack you; more importantly now that I know you are an Arsenal fan. But I have every right to comment on the ideology called Islam; and will exercise that right!

Dumbman,,,,,,sorry Donzman,
dont burtst a vein. You are having serious fits now due to your lack of knowlege as accurately opined before. You can call us all sorts of names you like, it does not reduce or remove the fact.

olabowale:
@All: The undisputed book of authority for the Muslims, is (1) Al Qur'an Kariim. All the words comes directly from Allah the Almighty. In the Qur'an Allah talks about those who were changing their natural appearance. The obvious diffence between male and female is the beard,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Bros,
Then indeed your allah must be confused: because beards is NOT an obvious difference between males and females. Go to Calabar and you will see what I mean and some men even don't grow beard or body hair naturally; so what is the meaning of your obvious? I am not surpised because 'allah does not even know what it created the people from, whether sand or mud or dot or whatever.

olabowale:
Further the Qur'an tells the Muslims that they have good example in the prophet. In another verse, Muslims are told to obey Allah and the messenger so that they can achieve success. In another verse, still, the muslims are told that whatever Muhammad (AS) permits or allows or commands, muslims should take it and whatever he forbids, muslims should avoid.!

Now this is a horrible example of a role-model: A murdering prophet who offically sanctioned 'lying' called TAQQIYA; a grown ass man with a fetish for sex with the girl-child; a man who describes women as having half a brain; a prophet who permits his followers to beat their wives albeit 'gently'; a prophet with up to 23 wives at a time but restricts his followers to just four; a prophet who cannot know whether it was God talking to him or devil (probably the latter though); a prophet who does not know what his god will do to him at the point of death (I think we know); a prophet who was reported received some of his revelations after sex with a 9yr old girl; a prophet who permits killing of those who refuse to accept his ideology or taxing them to submission,,,,,,,,and so on and so forth.

olabowale:
For example Muhammad (AS) informed us that Jibril (AS), came to him and informed him that when ever he performs ablution (The washing of the parts for the preparation of prayer or reading of Qur'an), he should upon washing of the feet, to cup some water and wet his beard with it. I do that now, from the moment I learnt about it. Muhammad told us that when we make this ablution, every drop of water that drips off our body , is a sign that our sins are dropping off and being wiped off from our record. We all know that humans commit a good amount of sins per day. Muhammad (AS) said that the one who takes shower 5 times a day will be cleaner with less stain on his body than the one who does not take shower, daily.

@All,
Even if you've been trying to be 'politically-correct' and refuse to declare the truth so that you don't cause offense, please read this quotation above and know why you must start praying especially for the salvation of our muslim friends; because we love muslims just as we must love everybody because our God is Love. Our God is love and he has commanded we take his gospel of salvation to the end of the world. If you read this entry above and you don't have (1) pity for muslims especially; (2) and a righteous indignation at Islam and the deception of muhammed; then you are heartless.
Every prayer offered to God in Love and faith is answered, please pray for genuine salvation to come to our muslim friends. Pray for the continued exposure of the "gospel of salvation through works of deception" as highlighted above.
God answers prayers.

Mariory:
Good call Havila. Spend your time on something worth while.

Reformists and moderates continue to lead in Iran.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061218/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_elections

@Mariory,
Thanks; will do. I thought my experience of dealing with emotionally troubled teenagers will be useful with 'it'; but this 'thing' pass am!!!

@Davidylan,
I understand you position about the little progress; but seriously if you dare compare Obasanjo's administration, some policy changes etc with the former military, or grade 2 teacher/ leaders we've had. Then you might even be forced to see Obj as 'angel jibril' . You kno' what I mean!!

@Haji Olabowale,
Thank God you are not a lawyer because you will make an awful lawyer like Danny DeVito in one of his films.
So, if we use your arguement of the association between accuracy of pen-down history and time from occurence; which one is more credible: between the eye-witness accounts of Jesus's ministry documented under inspiration of the Spirit of God and the story about a certain Isa, whom you claim is Jesus although not, written by Muhammed almost 600-900 years after the occurence? According to your 'whispered story' theory if we remove the common denominator of "inspiration" from both accounts, then the quranic account is less than credible. But we know the inspired authors of the Bible were inspired by the 'promised' spirit of God; but muhammed received his own inspiration while hallucinating inside a cave, probably induced by a septicaemic or disseminated sexually trasnmitted infection.  Indeed your statement about Jesus talking as a baby and defending his mother is a figment of imagination of a deluded sex-pervert you called your prophet. When Jesus Christ said "It is finished" on the cross, it put paid to the need for any further prophet again because, from then on, we have direct access to God the Father through faith in Jesus the Son. So, Muhammed is nothing other than a fraud. Stop being deceived by lies, and seek wisdom!!!

olabowale:
@TayoD:  
(1) the professor whisper a story to the first student and instructs that it be whispered to the next student and so on. The last student whispers it back to the professor. The all write it down and read in aloud. Guess what? In every situation, in every school, in every semester, the initial story whispered by the professor, is always completely different from the final story whispered back to the professor.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
(2) You may find truth from a Hindu, for example. The truth that you find from them is from God the Almighty.
instead of the capout mindset that blood being spilled and the numbo jumbo okey doke chi wan chu of resurrection of short changed, terribly calculated after three days is pure madness. Please be for real, man.

In addition, well you might be correct here and I agree with you: the truth that you find from the hindu is from "your" shared god. But their god or your allah is not the God who called Himself the Almighty, i.e. the All Powerful God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. By the way, what's all the 'slangs' at the bottom, c'mon stop that, uncle Olabowale. grow up.

@Davidylan,
God bless you richly for your understanding of the depth of scriptures; and He will increase that understanding of yours.

@Donzman,
Thanks for your post; but as Davidylan has shown above, difference exists between 'afflictions' resulting from foretold words, and a 'Curse'.
I did not say Ishmael was cursed; but a view of the prophesy concerning his life will reveal my position that Islam is an extension of the 'affliction' (not curse) of Ishmael. The words of God cannot change.
Again, neither did I say Ishmael is the father of muslims in general (take a look again) I said Ishmael was the progenitor of Arabs and thus of Muhammed and his ideology of Islam. Even muslims know and admit it. Listen: Not all Christians are Jews, but all true Christians are joint heirs of Abraham's covenant and blessings through Christ/Christianity. In the same way 'not all muslims are Arabs, but all muslims are joint heirs of Ishmael's "covenant" through muhammed/Islam. Sorry if this sounds offensive but it is the spiritual fact of life. Even, idol worshippers share covenant with their deity through the priest or babalawo. Nature and spiritual things abhor vacuum; thus even atheist and secular humanist share covenant with the "ruler of the world system" (guess who) through philosophy and other world systems, etc. Do you now understand why truth must be told even if it is offensive?
I now know that you can see that this is different from the issue of Ham and Noah; the relationship here cannot be used to justify such things as racism because there is no word of God here, those who use it were simply ignorant fool doing the works of wickedness. Before you jump to post kindly make sure you have really read and understood a post.
This is not about Islamophobia; it is simply boldy declaring the escathological relevance of the prophesy of Ishmael to today's occurences.

@babs707,
as for you, babs, you are in a world of your own. Can you read at all? The fact that somebody is literate does not translate to being able to read and understand, hope you know.

@afam,
all the previous information, references etc provided by a lot of people on this topic have not been helpful to you; because of your lack of (1) personality and (2) intellectual capacity to reason intelligently.
Get help, dude. All the best in your future.

Afam:
@Havila,
Unfortunately, you are dealing with the wrong person. Yes, it made perfect sense to respond to the different posts under a single reply, it is common sense. Maybe in your wisdom I should have responded individually to the insults by the members of your gang, silly thing.
You have failed to support or oppose a position based on facts or simple logic, calling me Mr Objective won't add or remove anything from me, it may only make you fill fulfilled as it may be important to you.

@Afam,
You obviously have a very insecure identity as an individual, with no clear sense of purpose. That is the reason for your relatively easy resort to aggression whenever you are confronted by a superior or divergent intellectual reasoning. You also have an inflated false idea about who you are, as a psychological response to your emotional insecurity. Have you ever asked yourself why you have to abuse a lot of people all the time because they disagree with you.?? You most probably have a difficult upbringing and it is affecting you emotionally; it is obvious again that you probably translate your emotional aggresion against somebody - maybe a parental figure - from your youth, unto everybody who "dare" crossess your path .
You arguements are unfounded rumors, not backed by any reasonable reference; but pride and anger wont make you see reason intellectually with a superior arguement. What you need is help, counselling, anger-management, and some love in your life--> you seriously need it.
Dont worry, I still like you and hopefully, will pray for you; but henceforth will ignore you like a lot of people have done. Hopefully you'll seek help. You have nothing to offer, really!