₦airaland Forum

belloti:
I tell you in Nigeria, the Igbo armed robbers we have killed more innocent civilians than the almajiri riots in the north. but then, we don't care about their faith because its probably in their line of duty.

@Belloti,
Ooouuuucchhhhhh!! that's way below the belt and improper!! ; do you want to start ethnic war right here? You better run for cover because I can imagine the rain of "scud missiles" and "Tomahawk cruise missiles" coming your way, brother!!
By the way do you have any data to support that statement or is it an assumption? If it is an assumption, then let me give you the idiomatic definition of 'assumption': It is an imaginary bridge built to connect a gap between established facts, but it is based on evidence.Has your assumption met that criteria?

@Belloti,
I commend your attempt at being 'broadminded' but you've really betrayed your own religious and ethnic bias in approach to this particular issue. You stated that Yerima's introduction of Sharia law in Zamfara state was "in response to yearnings of the majority". First, what majority? can you quote the result of the referendum conducted in which majority of poor and hungry Zamfarans gave their support to it? or rather that he bowed to the yearnings of some 'over-zealous Imams' to the detriment of democracy almost destabilising the nation he now wants to lead? (God forbid!!). One of the first rules of Leadership is that a leader must attempt to do what is right because it is right and not because it makes him a friend of the "influential elites".
Again you've shown Yerima is incapable of leading because he cannot control or contain the "selfishness of his lieutanants"(your own words); do you seriously think somebody who can't control his own lieutanants can control a nation with diverse opinions and oppositions?.
The fact that "you know him very well"(your own words) is making you to delibrately refuse to see his gross incapabilities; that betrays your own self-interest, but just as it is your right to support anybody or anything, it is also the right of others to critically appraise such individuals and present our conclusions, however bitter it may sound, that is called freedom of speech and expression.
Yerima is a clear and present danger to the unity and survival of our multi-ethnic, multireligious nation; he is a clear and present danger to democracy and right of individuals. He has shown himself to be an agent of division, rather than agent of unity by the discriminatory fees and ethnic polarizations in Zamfara State, what do you think he will do if he becomes president of a multi-ehtnic Nigeria? (Almighty God forbid again and forever!!). Belloti, I commend your 'intellectual attempts' and approach to issues, but you need to truthfully arrive at conclusions not based on personal gains.
What other legacy has he got apart from Sharia law and indictment by EFCC? Attempt to sell him to us, please  and you will see He has got nothing. Believe me, Belloti, there are much more credible people in the North (Muktar Shagari, Ahmed Makarfi, el-Rufai, Col Umar etc) who have shown themselves to be in tune with the multi-ethnic, multi-religious realities of Nigeria, rather than a religious bigot called Yerima.

Wumine:
@Havila
You mean being good doesnt equal righteousness? well
Thank you so much once again and God bless you for the write up.
wumi

@Wumine,
That's very good write up by Davidylan to answer the question. I will only want to add to it by referring you to read the scriptural backing for all that he has said in the Book of Romans, read Chapters 4,5,6,7 and 8.
King James Version (or New Intrnational Version for Queens English which might be more comfortable for you to aid understanding).
All the best.

belloti:
One funny thing again is that your opinions are always suppose to reign supreme. What i was saying was that you guys talked about violence and killings in 90% of your posts. Is that the only thing we can discuss as comrades? why can't we speak about positive things?
Instead of straining our nerves on middleeast politics which forever will continue to polarise us why can't we dissect the need for us to unite as one community to face the global challenges threatening our world?.

@ 'Oga Belloti'
OK now, make you start, tell us the positive things make we discuss. Seriously

@Web,
Good question, but it would have helped if you've given some vague introduction of yourself and why you are interested in this topical issue in Nigeria since you said you are not familiar with Nigeria. Probably, some of the earlier skimishes could have been avoided. But you are indeed a quick learner with your insightful questions. Anyway, all well and good.

@All,
Saying tribalism has nothing to do with corruption is a gross misconception or misunderstanding of issues in Nigeria. The two of them act synergistically in retarding the growth of our nation. For example, while tribalism is the root of the call for "rotational presidency" in Nigeria, the aim is to corruptly enrich ones' own kith and kin with the nations resources; thereby creating power-brokers or Godfathers in ones tribe with financial muscle which, in Nigeria, translates to political power. Corruption is not only in monetary terms, there is corruption in employment into the Federal Civil Service in Nigeria, stupidly sugar-coated as "Quota System", whereby merit is sacrified on the alter of tribalism because various sections want "administrative/political" power which eventually leads to corruptly enriching your tribes members. You can go on and on and you will see, that tribalism and corruption are intrinsically woven or an integral part of each other in our dear nation Nigeria.

These problems can only be addressed if we revert to true federalism; which could be simplistically explained by the term 'decentralisation' used by Web (really brilliant guy). By this, I mean we need to reduce the power at the centre and disolute power to the various geo-political regions that exist, with semi autonomous adminstrative powers and full regional resource mobilisation and control.
Open to critique.!!

@Distinguished Ladies and Gentlemen,
I think Babyosisi, Wumine and other ladies in the house will find this rather interesting. This senior but 'idiotic' cleric dude is a serious follower of his prophet. For those who have not heard this, enjoy.


A senior Australian Muslim cleric compared women who go without a head scarf to "uncovered meat" left out for scavengers, drawing widespread condemnation and calls Thursday for his resignation.
Hilali was quoted in The Australian newspaper Thursday as saying in the sermon: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ,  without cover, and the cats come to eat it ,  whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's?"
"The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred," he was quoted as saying, referring to the headdress worn by some Muslim women.

Prime Minister John Howard called the remarks "appalling and reprehensible." "The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous," Howard said.

Hilali is the top cleric at Sydney's largest mosque, and is considered the most senior Islamic leader by many Muslims in Australia and New Zealand.

He has in the past served as an adviser to the Australian government on Muslim issues, but triggered a controversy in 2004 for saying in a sermon in Lebanon that the Sept. 11 attacks were "God's work against the oppressors." Hilali said later he did not mean that he supported the attacks, or terrorism.

Hilali said in a statement he was shocked by Thursday's reaction to his sermon.
"The presentation related to religious teachings on modesty and not to go to extremes in enticements, this does not condone rape, I condemn rape," he said.



Story by ROHAN SULLIVAN [Copyright; 2006 AP]

babs787:
I MAY BE IN PRE-SCHOOL, PRIMARY SCHOOL ETC. AM VERY SURE IF YOU SEE ME ONE ON ONE YOU WONT BE ABLE TO ADDRESS ME LIKE THAT, BUT THATS NOT THE ISSUE AT HAND.

@Babs101,
What is it with some of you guys talking as if 'thinking' is not one of your charateristics on an open forum? What do you mean by "if you see you one on one you wont be able to address me like that". I said it before and now you've confirmed it, I overestimated you because this is actually a very silly statement. I tried handling you like an adult but my assumption seems wrong.

babs787:
U UNDERSTOOD MY QUESTIONS BUT DEVISING STRATEGY TO RUN AWAY FROM MY QUESTION. FROM YOUR QUOTE (JOHN). IT IS WRITTEN THERE THAT HE WILL NOT SPEAK OF HIS OWN, HE WILL SPEAK WHAT HE HEARS AND WILL TELL YOU WHAT IS YET TO COME.

Okay, now I give up on you. You will get it before Jesus comes back. You paraphrased rightly from the quoted scriptures by saying "He will speak what he hears and will tell you what is to come" Now look at the passage again and tell me what the passage says about the source of "what he hears and what is to come" and you can stop torturing yourself. Please, read the bible more and more and bring on more 'contradictions', 'errors, 'spoofs', the Light will shine into your heart. If you still dont get it,,,,,,,well I am praying for you, my friend

[yawn loudly] Boooorinnnnnggg
Another attempt by the Gnostics to seek relevance by trying to denouce what is indenounable or indisputable. Myrad acaheological evidences support the historical accounts in the old and new testament. Even the quran tries to seek relevance or credibility by plagiarising stories of Jesus the Christ.
Nice try mate, but it's headed the same way as those before it, down the drain!!

@All,
Our God is not a God of mediocrity, he can use anybody from unschooled illiterate (remember Pa Akindayomi, founder of RCCG) to these awesome 'academia' men of God. The fact is, whomsoever God calls, He qualifies them.

@Orikinla, Babyosisi, et al
I spent some years working in infectious diseases research in a small west african predominatly-muslim, poor country; while there I came in contact with a local missionary (a native of the country) who told us his story when he was invited to one of our house fellowships by a colleague.
This man was formerly a top Imam and a Marabout (pronounced 'marabu') in the country. Marabout are spiritual counsellors who do "work" for people, if you know what I mean. He was rich, with 'customers' from the nations military, commercial sector, the high and mighty. Told of how they go to the graveyard at times for more spiritual power; but he got into trouble when he did some "works" for some armed robbers who were caught and identified him as their spiritual backer. He was then sent to prison, when he got to prison, he said he asked 'allah' for forgiveness and became the imam of the prison mosque being the most senior muslim cleric there. However, he likes engaging and harassing some christian groups who come to the prison for ministration to the prisoners. He said he will challenge then to debates in the prison, bring out his al-quran and a bible and go on to 'provide proof of error in the bible (sound familiar?), why Jesus is not God, discredit christianity and so on and so forth. But he then discovered that for him to hit 'those' kafirs hard, he will have to read the bible more. So he was researching the bible and quran, that was where his 'good problem' started. Major questions started forming in his mind, he became very unsettled, before he knew it, he was questioning the same quran that he was preaching from in his mind. He stopped reading the bible, but the more the questions came to him about everything in he quran. He picked it up again and continued reading. It was to the shock of the whole prison and the predominatly muslim nation, when he gave his life to Jesus in the prison. He was released at the end of his prison term but temporarily went underground because his life was in danger. He then formed a missionary group that aims the muslims especially the fula tribes (i.e called fulani in Nigeria), manjango tribes (who are mainly muslims and animists') and others. His house/missionary office is more or less an hostel (I visited him a couple of times for support and encouragement to the glory of God) because a lot of the converts are young men and women who were immediately ostracised by their families following their convertion. He provided accomodation for them, and they were learning life-skills to engage themselves. This man today is a beacon of light in the darkness of that nation, and many are converting to Christ through his ministry. I did not read this, I am a living witness of God's grace on his life and ministry. For those who are yet to see a practising muslim convert, Oh' I have seen many and will still see many as the Lord tarries. This is a case of a "Damascus experience" for a 'Saul-like' man in our time, who today is an 'Apostle Paul' in that nation; many are still happening.
John 1 vs 4-5 say: "In Him (Jesus) was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness, and darkness comprehendeth it not."
Let's keep the Light shinning. In your discussions and debate, dont rely only on logic, throw the word of God at them, refer them to read the scriptures themselves so that they can 'discredit' Him whom the Living God has Glorified; then wait and see the powers of God

Wumine:
@havila
## i feel like a christian because i was born one and that is what everyone expects of me.
## the commandment says: 'Thou shall worship no other God before me'. Dont you think calling Jesus God is equating him to God, i feel christians worship Jesus and don't feel good abou that. I don't understant why you say Jesus is God! God? this has always been confusing to me.
I believe in God and i believe there is heaven. I believe you have to be good to get there. I also don't believe you have to belong to any religion to get to heaven. i feel you can do that on your own, believing in God and living a just life.

@Wumine,
Well, my first response to you is that I know exactly what or how you feel. I have been there before, believe me!!! It is true we all fill forms and put 'christianity' in religion, you are asked what is your religion-prompt answer : I am a Christian. The truth is a lot of us were born into so call 'christian' families and adopted the sunday-sunday ritual of going to church, singing hyms etc. But what we are fulfilling is the world definition or classifaction of 'christianity as a religion' and not the true scripture-supported understanding of Christianity as not a religion but a 'kingdom of God, a way of life, an unshaking belief in the doctrine of grace and redemption, that we could attain righteouness only from the Almighty God through faith in Jesus Christ'. Righteouness is the precondition to making it to heaven, and not feeling good because I do good, give to charity, treat people nice, help people etc. All those are good attributes but it does not attain to righteousness.
Jesus said the Kingdom of God is in our midst (i.e withing and among his disciples) and also said His kingdom is not of this world i.e his kingdom is not worldly in nature, it is a kingdom within men, set up in our hearts and mind; with it's riches and power spiritual. That is why Jesus said 'except a man be born again (i.e become renewed or tuned to the 'Kingdom' as described) he cannnot see, or become of, the kingdom of God. While 'feeling' like a christian was ascribed to you by your upbringing in a church-going family, becoming a true 'disciple of christ; a member of the body of christ; a part and parcel of the Kingdom of God; a true christian; is a conscious decision which you must make yourself by accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, believing He is God who died for your sins, raised from death and ascended to Glory. Not only will you become a christian but will truely feel liberated from bondage of sins and past mistakes by the blood of the Lamb of God, be assured of an advocate (risen and Glorified, Jesus) constantly interceeding on our behalf; and then gradually develop the holy reverence or fear of God that keeps a saved and sanctified person keeping his body and mind dead to the power or hold of sin as you continue i your 'new life'.
Now, you are an intelligent person, go read the entire Gospel according to John in the bible. This is a very rich source to get better understanding of what I just described above.

Part 2:
The concept of Trinity is that there is One eternal God in unity or One God in nature but yet existed in three persons i.e God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The members of the Trinity are equal in nature, distinct in persons and subordinate in duties. Matthew 28, vs 19, John 5 vs 18)
To give you a simplistic approach to understand this concept, example the sun, heat and light are all from same source yet are three different integral part of each other, water could also exist as steam. liquid or ice-yet they are all still water. Even human being have the body, soul and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23, Hebrew 4:12-13) yet are all of one nature but have different characteristics. Jesus is the Son (Luke 3:22) as announced by God himself, who is also God through his manifestation of power in three capacities that are prerogatives of deity: (1) Judgement (John 5 vs 22,27,30); (2) Forgiveness of Sins (Matthew 9 vs 1-6); and (3) Resurrection (John 5 vs 21, 25,26,28,29). The scriptures aslo point to the deity of the Holy Spirit as the third person of the God-Head or Trinity. (Which is why it is so stupid when muslims point to the comforter/holy spirit as the dead and violent muhammed who married a six year old girl ,Aisha, and comsumatted the wedding when she was 9- peadophilia of the highest order!!)
As Jesus the Son is eternally begotten of the Almighty Father (Yahweh), so Jesus is submissive to do the work of the Father, yet equal in nature to Him. The Father is the source of authority (Jesus alluded to this in various places in the Gospels of Matthew 5 and John 5 vs 19-47), Jesus the Son is the channel, and the Holy Spirit is the agent whereby that authority is exercised.
Wumine, I need to emphasise that the examples or illustrations I used to explain the Trinity above are in fact a simplistic approach to aid undrstanding, but you need to study the Bible in order to fully understand the Trinity. Kindly start from the passages mentioned or suggested in this discourse and you will get understanding. Reading is a virtue of a Christian, unlike those who need the Alfas, sheik, mullahs, ustahs etc to "think" for them. God bless, awaiting your response.

Dear Tanicarr,
With the number of "I think" in your most recent post, it shows you think a lot and looking for understanding; that is very good. But you need to be careful of some "non-thinkers" with 'Jesus-phobia' who say all sorts of heretic and unfounded things in trying to explain 'Jesus' whom they do not know and quoting from scriptures written by people who did not "know" Jesus as Lord. Is that not silly? just like trying to explain biblical miracles by using the magics of Professor Peller of Ibadan, what has light got to do with darkness?. What you need now is to add "reading" to the "thinking" and the wisdom will come.
For example:
Read Micah 5 vs 2 and John 8 vs 58 to know for certainty about the existence of the pre-incarnate Jesus.
Read Isaiah 7 vs 14, and 9 vs 6 to know that Jesus is God as prophesied by Isaiah the prophet.
Read Matthew 28:19 to know the existence of the Trinity as God the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
Read Luke 3:22 to know or 'hear' the declaration of Jesus as the Son of God, as announced by God himself.
The purpose of these readings is for you to first establish the divinity, pre-existence and sonship of Jesus Christ; after these, we can now go into the various roles and appearances of Jesus as the pre-incarnate Lord in the old testament where you will see God the father exercising authority through the pre-incarnate Lord (Jesus) as the channel of that authority.
My dear, to get understanding, don't rely on me or some 'deluded heretics' but rather rely on reading the true scriptures (i.e Bible) yourself to get a foundation of understanding (which we all need), and then move on to discussions.
Peace.

[quote =26125.msg671785#msg671785 date=1161691632]Afterall, some people deserve to go to Hell anyway. A well known example is Pharaoh who drowned in the sea. Jibril related the story to Muhammad (AS). Jibril said that when this tyrant saw the reality of his evil ways, he now began to declare his faith in Allah, (the God of Moses and Aroon). However, Jibril began to pack the mud of the bottom of that sea into Pharaoh's mouth, not allowing him to make that proper declaration. God then said that Pharaoh body will be saved for the future generations to see.[quote][/quote]


@Davidylan/Babyosisi,
As ludicrous as it is, I really don't give a hoot at any attempt to gain credibility for the 'peaceful' quran by plagiarising stories from the bible, afterall the truth has revealed itself. But plagiarism is one of the dumbest things to do, and some prophets can't even do that properly without exposing their inherent confabulations and wickedness. Look at the highlighted statement in the quotation above, now compare it to the story of the dying thief who decided to submit his life to the Lord right on the cross and received redemption from the Lord. Another suporting evidence that this 'allah' is DEFINITELY NOT the I AM THAT I AM, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who introduced Himself to Moses in the desert. It will take 'electroconvulsive therapy' prayers to open some minds, but the holy spirit is more than capable. Dont give up .

=topic=26946.msg671460#msg671460 date=1161661560:
I hate discussing with them, directly or indirectly. Infact, I pay them no mind, like flies on the wall.

@ Davidylan et al,
It is written that: "We are the light of the world" (Matt. 5) and it is also written that: "And when Light shineth in darkness, darkness cannot comprehend (or apprehend, or tolerate, or engage!) the Light (John 1). Furthermore, Jesus said that: "And many shall HATE you for my sake, but rejoice when that happens"

Herein is the word of the Lord come alive because His words are 'spirit and they are life'. Who says the bible is not true, let them eat their words. All glory be to the Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Redeemer. Rejoice because "whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world, and this is the victory that overcomes the world (the world is satan and his little deities like obatala, allah, okija deity, ogun, sango,etc) -- even our faith (in Lord Jesus)
Peace

[Quote:
In the Qur'an, you will find the mission of Jesus (AS), is essentially of two parts; to redirect the the children of Israel to the religion that the old prophets followed, with emphasis laid on Mosaic laws. The second part was to proclaim the coming of the Messenger, whose name is 'Ahmad.'[quote][/quote]


@Davidylan and Wumine,
Looking at the above 'quotation', now you will perfectly understand why I said earlier that if you are simply confused, what you need is wisdom and direction; but if you are in Islam, you need much more than wisdom and direction.

@babs,
You are really frustrating me with your poor handling. I think I actually over-estimated you. Are you a secondary school student? Dont take that as an 'abuse', it is just a curious question, if not then you must really be lazy. As a muslim, I know that independent scripture analysis is not one of your attirbutes, rather relying on whatever the Ustahs/Sheik/Imam said at your mosques.
So, your question is: what is the holy spirit saying about divorce, parents etc from the Bible aside what Jesus said? (a ridiculous but persistent questioning) This question is not correct is what I am saying, going by what Jesus said in the scriptures I quoted for you. Read it again:John 16, vs 12-15
"(12) I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. (13) But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (14) He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. (15) All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.


Now, in your wisdom, your conclusion from the above stated passage is that: Quote from Babs747: "the holy spirit is supposed to tell you new things aside jesus". This is why I said, what you DO NOT understand, you are looking for contradictions in it, how absurd.

There is NOTHING written by the Apostles under inspiration of the Holy spirit that is NOT from Jesus. There is nothing we learn now under inspiration of the holy spirit that is NOT from Jesus. Read the Acts of the Apostles and see how the disciples increased in wisdom, power etc following the impartation of Holy Spirit in Antioch after the death and rescurection and Ascension of Jesus. That and others is what that passage is saying. I doubt if you will understand because I really think I am overestimating your abilities.
About divorce, etc, we will have to read the epistles Hebrews, Ephesian, Phillipians etc for what the Bible said about marriage, divorces, respect for parents ect, written by Paul and co under inspiration of the holy spirit.
If you are looking for what the holy spririt taught, either in the bible or not, in lives of christians now, that is NOT from Jesus, it does not exist. Even, the 'true' insprational books, articles written by pastors, preacher etc now, are inspired by the holy spirit teaching us from Jesus. Is that too difficult to understand or should I say it in Yoruba?
You must first convince me you understand the above, then I can take time to show you biblical passages about parenting, divorce, marriage etc. Otherwise what is the point. But if you are a secondary school student, I will know which approach to use because I use to teach teenagers in church. I dont underrate people.

@wumine,
I really admire your honesty. There is a proverb in Yoruba that says "eni to ba b'ere ona, koni sonu' meaning 'whoever asks for direction will never get lost'. This is especially true when you ask God for direction. I usually like having an imaginary profile of whoever I am discussing with because it help me in knowing how deep or how far to go along. My profile for you is this:

A young and brilliant  individual with a very analytical mind, likes planning ahead, logically approaches issues but rather impatient or easily agitated if results are slow in coming or not coming the way you planned or expected them. Occasionally(?) you measure others by your own standard; which might or might not be a bad thing to do, especially since it appears you have a honest, straightforward (no beating about the bush!) and strict standard or code of living. A rather professionally minded individual who applies a lot of logic to issues.

Now advice me if I am spot-on right or combination of right and wrongs in this profile, which came from my observation of your discussions on Nairaland. Now to the issue you raised: (1) thank God you said you are no longer in Islam, and (2) thank God you said you "still feel the gospel of Judas CAN be true" (in your own words). The former indicates that most likely you will rationally and objectively approach issues and the latter shows that even you still exhibits some doubts about the authenticity of the so-called Gospel of Judas.
You said you are a 'christian' but don't feel like one at times, I am not surprised because you are still struggling with one of the most fundamental tenets of the body of Christ, i.e the Diety or Divine status of Jesus Christ. To address these issues, you must be ready to read and prayerfully seek understanding, I am talking of reading the Bible, a book full of widsom and direction. Now can you kindly give us (a) the 'reason(s)' that makes you not to feel like a christian at times, and we can take it rom there; and (b) the reasons (or rather the logic) why you think that the belief that Jesus is God is contrary to the first commandment;(c) any other confusion you might be entertaining.
I am on break now when I saw you response and I am quicky penning my response too but hopefully will reply in detail later in the day if you give the answers. But before I go, listen to this:

Hebrews 11: vs 1-2; Now faith is the substance (or assurance/realization) of things hoped for, the evidence of things NOT seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Hebrews 11: vs 6; But without faith it is impossible to please Him; for he that cometh to God must believe that He is; and that He is a rewarder of them that dilidently seek him.
God is going to strengthen our faith (yours and mine) as we go along, mainly through reading the scirptures because all the answers are there.

@babs727,
I think you have difficulty in understanding the scriptures that you are looking for contradictions in. Because if not, you will not persist at asking me the same question despite the scriptures I quoted above and referred you to twice now.
According to the scriptures all things that holy spirit tell us are from Jesus on His throne of Glory and the spirit is revealing, teaching, convicting etc them to us in the world. What Jesus was teachig, doing etc when he was on earth are now being done in the body of christ through the holy spirit but still from Jesus (that is the meaning of the verse) So asking what holy spirit taught aside from Jesus is ambigous. Go, read the passage again and ask a different question.
However, if you are asking me specifically what the holy spirit taught me, then I will respond in a simple statement: It's personal, None of your business. Give your life to Jesus and start enjoying the fellowship of the Holy spirit and you will know what it is to be taught and led by God, bro

@Wumine,
As Davidylan told you, try and conduct your own little research before accepting anything. Nowadays with internet etc you can sit down and research the davinci code, the 'false gospel of judas', islam etc.
But my advise to you is that it is better for you to be confused than be in islam. With confusion, what you need is wisdom and direction, with islam, you need much more than that.

@Walelead,
As a leader, you cant say what is right cannot be achieved. If you have time, conduct a desk-based analysis of what led to the collapse of nations like USSR, Yugoslavia and many of the other baltic states. It is the absence of true federalism in a very heterogenous entity. While we might not achieve text-book federalism, we can achieve perfect federalism-perfect for our idiosyncracies.
What do you think is fuelling corruption, fruad in elections, difficulties in implemetation of carefully designed policies etc in Nigeria? While greed is one of them, but you will know power struggle among the various geo-politcal zones is a driving factor. Why do we keep on talking of irresponsible policy like "rotational presidency"? because some zones have been erroneously led to believe they can decided who control power at the central with resulting unfair utilisation of resources. Why should Bayelsa and some other oil-producing states be among the least developed states in Nigeria with higher than average unemployment levels despite producing the bulk of the nations resources? Iit is almost impossible to accurately conduct a census in Nigeria, why? because the political class in the various zone recognise numbers determine how much resourrces can be allocated. Why is there always ethnic coloration to appointments in the guise of absurd 'quota system' at the expense of merit?We can go on and on and eventually trace our problem to the fact that we've not determined how we will co-exist in a multi-ethnic setting. Yes we have 250 (?) ethnic tribes but we have near homogenous geo-political zones or regions that could serve as centre of regional governments. I am from the south west (a yoruba man) and not from the south-south, but I recognise the problem of our country. Dissolution of power from the centre to the regions is the way forward to achieving efficiency in Nigeria.
I wonder how you intend to build a lawful society in a country where some feel they do not belong.

@Walelead and All,
Well, Walelead, if you become the president in 2007 and you start all those things you wrote, as commendable and sensible as they are, you will not last 2 years in office before you are either impeached consitutionally or not, or even killed. The reason is because you will be building a house without foundation. Nigeria is currently like a house built with no foundation, so it is shaking pretty bad.

However, if I become President in 2007, my main task will be to build a foundation i.e define our very purpose for co-existence politically. A definitive and comprehensive constitution review where all the different ethnic tribes will come and agree on how we will live together in a Nigeria where everybody will 'belong'. This will be a true federalism, with reduction of power at the centre and development of self-sustaining and/or semi-autonomous regional governments with considerable regional control of their resources. After succesfully achieving this, then we can embark on building the nation because we now have a foundation. This is the way forward for us in Nigeria, unfortunately we seem to be avoiding it, hence the unending crisis.

@TayoD and Davidylan et al,
One of the most laughable claims I usually come across from the muslims is their attempt at ascribing that Holy spirit is Muhammed. As ludicrous as this is, I have often wondered why they persisted at such claims, and then it hit me some times ago:---> In mass hypnotism, one of the most potent factors for turning illusion to delusion is to attempt to ascribe credibility to what is not credible using what is definitely credible and undisputable Read about a lot of the cults that exist in the world, whether affiliated to a religion or not, the leader keeps the followers in belief by claiming, albeit falsely, one form of relationship or another to another pre-existed definite or indisputable entity in order to gain some credibility. Then I looked again at the life and ministry of Jesus, never for once did he ask people to believe in him because of any of the old prophets. Rather Jesus lays his authority and credibility to his Sonship in the Trinity, his deep teachings, wisdom and the miracles he performed through the power of God the father, and He even existed before all the prophets:
John 8:18, "I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me."

And John 8: 56-58, Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am
Now compare this to the testimonies of the 'fake' bedouin prophet of the Quaresh tribe and you'll know the lies of the devil.

As per the real 'Heaven', I read Revelations 3,4,5 and 6 again today and I rejoiced again that it is going to be an awesome time of worship to and with the true God. Compared to the 'other' heaven (or rather Hades!!) where sexual orgies, cross dressing, and abundant food is the most important reward for 'believers', men what a shame. Read their description of 'jannat' again and then compared it with the 'seven sins', you will see it is all represented in 'jannat'. I am talking about gluttony, greed, lust etc

@Babyosisi,
Do you usually "palm" your hair?. I wonder what you do to the "palm fronds"!!. I'm sure the guy turned the sciptures and apostle paul himself upside down when he was reading the sciptures.

@Grouppoint,
Bible said God gave man the 'power' to choose between life and death, good and bad, right and wrong etc. As TayoD rightly said, sin is a missed mark, product of a conscious decision based upon a pre-existing nature or capacity to take such decision. The nature of Sin entered into humanity with the missed mark of Adam and Eve under inspiration of the 'evil one' hence the capacity to make 'sinful' decisions. The Devil actively encourages people to 'take' the wrong decisions' while the spirit of God actively encourages people to take the right decisions. At times due to the stubborness of heart, the spirit of God can leave men to the judgement of the evil one, usually aimed at achieving spiritual growth and not to destroy.
Nowhere in the totality of God does he have the 'nature' of Sin; thus the question of whether he can or cannot sin (i.e the capability or capacity to sin but choose not to!) does not arise because the very nature of sin is NOT there in His attributes.
So, Grouppoint, out of curiosity why dont you give us your own response to the question posed in the thread, as you can see understanding varies on the nature of God, ranging from the ludicrous and sublime 'Jesus-phobia' based, up to scripture-based depending on understanding.

@Alwahidi,
Well, you've told us with your own hypoactive 'mutton' between your ears and your own mouth that you are DUMB. After all you said you speak using the sign language, so no need to continue with you any longer. Almajiri!!

@Belloti,
Stay away from this slowpoke, he wont do your campaing for Yerima any good, seriously.

@feelgood,
Contrary to your thinking, Mallam Belloti is my main man on nairaland, but we disagree on a lot of things but it does not remove my respect for him.
one more thing, I am a very heterosexual 'male' man!! not a sister-look well well

@Grouppoint,
I perceive you are a man of logic, I respect that, a brilliant mind no doubt. However, if you understand the nature of God, his awesomeness, Glory, wisdom and majesty, you will realize human logic is useless with God. For it is impossible to please or even understand God without faith.
The simplest question in the Bible is not who is the mother of christ but: who tempted Adam and Eve to sin in the garden of Eden? That answers you question, God did not create sin and he cannot sin

babs787:
Havila and the rest,
having gonme through the chapters and verse in which jesus said he will gho so that the comforter would come. jesus also if the spirit (as you put ) comes, he will decalre what is his, he would tell you things aside what jeesus has taught you.
please what has holy spirit taught you and where can i find them in the bible as regasrds to adultery, divorce case, issue of will, orpahan, role of women, witnesses, contract agreement, trusts, trade and property, tratment of the poor, marriage, etc.

Babs727,
I am really having difficulty following your line of thoughts and questions; and I will suggest you put more effort into the clearity of your postings, but I will persevere for our times' sake.
The Old and New Testaments were written by men under inspiration of the holy spirit, who taught and inspired them from the Lord Jesus Christ. You are trying to 'differentiate' the Holy Spirit from Jesus Christ with your reasoning if I guess correctly by asking "what the spirit taught different from Jesus christ" -again read the passage, especially verses 14 & 15 . Now kindly go and read AGAIN the bible verses I posted above and the explanation given afterwards especially relating to the concept of the true Trinity (not the quran understanding of trinity); then re-think and possible reflect on your question.
By the way if you want to know what bible said about those things you mentioned, then you'll be ready to read. Start from Matthew Chapter 5 (the whole chapter) and then  you will go to the epistles, Phillipians, Ephesians and so on. The entire New Testament (Injill) reflects the new covenant of grace to us, and has deep teachings on how to and reign like Christ.
By the way, my heart of understanding has already been opened to who allah is and what Islam is, that is why we are trying to assist your understanding to realise that islam is an idolatory and darkness, but it is the work of the holy spirit to eventually convict you and convince you of the truth. Your quest on finding contradictions can be likened to the quest of Apostle Paul-formerly Saul until he had the 'Road to Damascus experience', yours is coming soon.

belloti:
Can you tell me who post more violent messages on nairaland. The muslims or the Christians. To tell you the truth i only hear about violence when i log on to nairaland

@Belloti,
You know, you really really remind me of an 'Ostrich' with your statements and positions most times. You'll rather bury your head in the sand and 'pretend' as if you dont see the 'going-ons' in the world vis a vis Islam. That is the position of an Ostrich. That is just a 'figure of speech' before you start accusing me abusing you no.

babs787:
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and also show me the verse or chapter that the holy spirit told u new things in which jesus never told you.

Babs737,
Check this out: John 16, vs 12-14 (King James Version)
Jesus said thus: "(12) I have many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. (13) Howbeit when he, the spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into ALL truth: for he shall not speak of himself ; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. (14) He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. (15) All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he take of mine, and shall show it unto you."

For better understanding of the grammatical presentation, now read the same passage in the New International version and you can see one reason why we have versions of bible to improve understanding:
"(12) I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. (13) But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. (14) He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. (15) All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.


Now Babs737, the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity----> equal with the Father and Son in Essence, but separate in person, and submissive in duties. Just as Jesus also submits to God the Father in His duties on earth. The Holy Spirit is teaching us new things everyday in our daily living, and in our walk with God which might not have been written literarily in the Bible but still comes from Jesus on His throne of Glory since he said in Vs 14 'he (holy spirit) shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you'. However, this guidance only comes with submission to the Lord for the Holy Spirit to reprove one continually of sin, righteousness, and judgement. The more you read (?or copy and paste) the bible to show contradictions, the more will the truth of God and the sprit of truth will be coming to you. So bring on more contradictions in the bible from your masjid . However, I will like to commend you Babs797, you appear to be easier to reason with than some other 'foul-mouthed, intolerant, epistle-writing people' we used to see or hear. If you think I used some languages you do not like before, I apologise unreservedly.

@All,
I think the Belloti of a guy is learning fast, and I hope he has understood that this 'Jannat' is not likely to be the 'heaven'. At least he is much better at discussion than the 'foul-mouthed elders' who will rather give an irrelevant epistle when asked a simple question. Ask them 2+2, and they will start at how Algebra was sent down to the prophet of God in Quran.