₦airaland Forum

@Shahan,
At the risk of going off-topic; with regard to you guys discussion on whether women should preach or not, thought I dont feel like contributing but I believe and totally support women preaching in churches. Using Titus and Timothy alone will confound other scriptural references in support because issue of periodic and contextual tradition comes in; but really I dont want to go into it. Personally, I am indifferent to who is preaching, male or female, but concerned about the message being preached. e.g the current head of the episcopal church in the US is a woman, I dont mind but had it been that I am Anglican, I will disagree with her ministry and belief such as support for ordination of gay priests, and gay marriage among others
By The Way, you are such a gifted and brilliant bible teacher from your various discussions, if someone like you refuses to teach in your church because of your gender, did God make a mistake in giving you such wisdom and knowledge (probably more than most male folks in your church) for the edification of the church? Definitely not!!

islampride:
when the queen of england addresses the populace, she says 'we have decided to,' 'we shall' etc.
so dumb ass, shahan, WE as found in the Quran is nothig other than the royal WE.

And how many times has this Ibadan moto-park tout seen or heard the Queen of England speak?; maybe that was the lie from prof yusuf of OAU Ile-Ife (the blind leading the blind)
Really dumb guy, the Queen never ever said "we"; she alway says "My kingdom" or "My Government". If you want a recording of the last Queens speech why not go online and get a copy for prof yusuf. Talk of looking for any reason to hide the truth that is glaring to all except cerebrally bereft peoples with "Reverse IQ" (brilliant phrase borrowed from dear Shahan)

babyosisi:
Let me leave some quotations from the Koran that has led several Muslims to Christ,one was on TBN the other day,now a pastor in Texas,he started reading the Bible after hearing the Koran declare that those who follow Jesus are greater than those who don't and he sought from the Bible who this Jesus really is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
003.055
[b]YUSUFALI: Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith,[/color] to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
PICKTHAL: (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve [color=#990000]and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.
SHAKIR: And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed. [/b]

@babyosisi,
Thanks, while it is true that, thankfully, these passages make some muslims to want to know more about Jesus Christ; but I can tell you that was not muhammed's intention for "receiving" these passages; if you know what I mean by "receiving."

It was in his quest to convince the early Christians in his area at that time to accept his "new religion" that made him "receive" this passage. He is capable of any suitable revelations to achieve a purpose, which at that time was to secure followership at all cost including deception. You know he also "received" revelation of the 3 "daughter" goddesses of Allah (called al-Lat, al-Uzzah and Manat) in order to convince the polytheistic Arab pagans to accept his new ideology of "pseudo-monotheism" called Islam at that time. The guy na just one 419 prophet of the devil!

@Shahan,
Thanks once again; you are correct about the three duaghter gods (al-Lat, al-Uzzah and Manat are their names). While it is true historically that Muhammed initially chose only Hubal (or the moon god) as the only al-illah/allah ('the god'); later he included 3 other idols as the daughter goddesses of 'hubal or allah'. I posted the passage below in another topic but let me post it here again; it is from the Quran in which muhammed asked for his followers to worship the daughter gods as their intercessors but he later retracted it and blamed it on the devil:

"Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for."
[The word in bold are the acclaimed "Words of Satan" Deleted in modern day Quran] (Ref: an-Najm 53:19-22)

It is an "undeniable fact of history" that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located i.e the so-called Kaabah.
As Muhammad grew weary from evangelizing his new religion with little success, he deceptively decided to add the above verse in the Koran that commanded Muslims to pray to Allah's three pagan daughters Lat, Uzza and Manat as stated above in the first paragraph. The pagan female trinity was immediately accepted without dissent and the passage was considered part of the revealed Koran. However some time later, (probably because he had secured some considerable followership among the Arabs who then were more favourably disposed to polytheism) Muhammad claimed he was tricked by the devil in adding the passage in question, and that he got another revelation from "God" that the passage commanding the worship pf daughter gods should be removed. However the duaghter gods are still included in the Quran.
Such fake "corrective revelations" as demostrated by Muhammed are very common with false prophets and their cults who choose to receive a suitable "revelation" for a particular dire need. Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormons also claimed he too received a "corrective revelation" from "God" (maybe allah) and then retracted his previous "divine command" allowing polygamy.
Therefore, we know and declare it again that (a)ISLAM IS IDOLATORY; (b) ISLAM IS AN ABOMINATION TO THE TRUE LIVING GOD; (c) ISLAM IS A REBELLION AGAINST THE TRUE LIVING GOD. It is a polytheism in false monotheistic veil; let him/her that has an ear let him hear and flee.

References:
- Muhammad at Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt, 1953, p 23-29
- Islam and the Arabs, Rom Landau, 1958 p 11-21
- The Life and Times of Muhammad, John Bagot Glubb, 1970
- Muhammad's Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt, Chapter 3
- Religion In Pre-Islamic Arabia, p26-45
- Islam: Muhammad and His Religion, Arthur Jeffery, 1958, p xi-xiv

belloti:
Havila, what are you saying? Oh yeah Islam is a complete way of life and a culture for everything. If you are just knowing this, its quite unfortunate. It shows you never knew Islam at all. you only come here to make noise and rubbish people as if appointed by someone. And please stop all these personal condemnation and restrict yourself to the issue on board. It doesnt make you anything.

Belloti,
Ok, stop taking my posts to you as a personal attack: and chill! I know islam in and out; I know what you probably do not know or what you know but probably refuse to acknoledge. The senseless lies, the deceptions, the hedonism, pervertions etc all glorified in the deception called Islam.
There is no way you can critically appraise islam without it's "author" called muhammed, get a contextual revelation about the true motives of muhammed in creating islam in those days: it is all about power, money and nationalistic pride. No revelation from God. He is an agent of satan whose mission is just like all the other false prophets before and after him, to deceive people into eternal damnation. The ideology of islam is similar to that of various cults in the world today. If you also look at the pattern of behaviour of muhammed, especially in abrogating certain verses he originally claimed to be from his 'allah' but later claim he has received another revelation or that he was deceived by the devil (so much for god's prophet) you will see a similar pattern of behaviour among other head of cults; e.g the head of the mormons also behaved similarly by withdrawing his initial 'revelation' that polygamy is ok.
We are asking you to "come, let us reason together" (the True God said that in the book of Isaiah in the bible) so you can know that God want's us to "reason"; look at the message of islam, look at the life and death of the prophet of allah, look at the followers of muhammed: do you see true Love/Charity, Mercy, Forgiveness, Wisdom, Justice, Peace, Salvation or Assurance of Eternity? Nooooo!!!

babyosisi:
2Ch 7:14 "if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

Our father, it is my earnest desire that you uproot the spirit of greed in my beloved country.
That anyone going into office with a desire to steal and embezzle will not succeed in the elections.
That the power of God will reign in our nation and beyond.
That all those who call on the mighty name of Jehovah depart from evil and worship Christ in Spirit and in truth.
That the spirit of the bondwoman shall not prevail and it's devices crushed forever.
In the Mighty name of Jesus.

Aaaaaammmmmeeeeeeeennnnnn to all the prayers; but especially to the one in bold by fire!!! The same God whom Elijah called upon and He sent down fire is Still Alive and on the throne; because God is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrew 13: May God send his fire/judgement upon the spirit of the bondwoman in our nation Nigeria, that eyes may be open, hearts will be softened and we will all call upon the living God with a faithful heart. Amen

shahan:
@lafile,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,As for the violence, hatred and sexual perversions, you will not find any muslim claiming any such idea as imbeded or remotely suggested in the Qur'an. If you do, that would be a very queer "Muslim" indeed. However, Muhammad's rejection of the paganistic worship of the Arabs, and consequently their opposition to his claims of prophethood, are the two most important factors that gave rise to violence, hatred and sexual perversion.

@Shahan,
thanks for your usually insightful posts; while it is true historically that muhammed's failure in "converting" people (Arabs pagans, Jews, Christians) to his "new" brand of "monotheism" and his rejection as a prophet were the strongest factors responsible for his "spread it by violence" or "triumphantism"; but did muhammed actually reject the paganistic worship of the Arab pagans or he just refined the paganism into islam?

At some point in Muhammad’s life, he was convinced probably by the early Arab Christians that Polytheism was wrong and sought to reject the 360 pagan gods he had grown up with. Muhammad was converted to the concept of monotheism through the influence and teachings of Christians. However, being a proud "nationalistic cultural Arab", bent to preserve his traditions, Muhammad, decided to "reform" his native pagan religion, rather than adopt a completely different religion like Christianity or Judaism. So Muhammad took the top pagan god of the Kabah in Mecca (called Hubal and/or Allah) and chose it to be his new monotheistic god. This god was already considered the top god among other gods at the Kabah. Muhammad’s strategy was simple. Rather than converting all the Arab people to the monotheism of Christianity, Muhammad merely banished the other 359 pagan gods and chose the one remaining to be the one and only god, what Muslims refer to today as "Allah". Thus Islam was born.

When muslims chant "allah u akbar" the true english translation is "allah is the greatest" (i.e allah is greatest among the other idols); this supports the fact that islam is actually a repackaged polytheism; "a polytheism with monotheistic veil". There are many elements of pagan worship that Muhammad grafted directly into Islam virtually unchanged. The symbols, the temples and the rituals of modern Islam were practiced by polytheists before Muhammad was born

References:
- Muhammad at Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt, 1953, p 23-29
- Islam and the Arabs, Rom Landau, 1958 p 11-21
- The Life and Times of Muhammad, John Bagot Glubb, 1970
- Muhammad's Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt, Chapter 3
- Religion In Pre-Islamic Arabia, p26-45
- Islam: Muhammad and His Religion, Arthur Jeffery, 1958, p xi-xiv

@Belloti,
My friend, rather than get all worked up over, why not just get a gist of my advice; which is strictly that any thought, idea or position on this forum can be suggested to in-depth critique not necessarily to your taste. This is why you need to get out of Zamafara, Abuja axis (with all due respect) maybe temporarily and get an understanding of the true meaning of freedom of speech, expression or thought; it is an unwelcomed concept islamically because of what is hidden in islam, the lies, debauchery, hedonism, etc. But if you operate in an atmosphere where your thoughts and opinions are subjected to total ridicule by colleagues without political-correctness, you will not take every disagreement as personal attack. It is obvious you grew up and live among those who shout ranka-dede all the time. Get a grip, my favourite friend, now that olabowale has gone AWOL.
For example, just listen to yourself:

quote from belloti: "The issue of worship in Islam is very clear. The lord said " La Khalaqatal Jinnu wal Insu Illa Li ya a budun". The Jinns and Humans were not created for anything but to Worship Allah. Life on earth is about worship and infidelity. You ve got the right to choose what you want, you ve got freewill. If you choose to serve God on earth, you shall be rewarded with Heaven in the hereafter and you choose to be infidel and follow the desire of your flesh you shall also meet your punishment in the Hell fire (Jahannama). The Lord said "Wa man ya amal mis qala zarratin khairan yara hu, wa man ya amal mis qala zarratin sharran yarahu."

First, how can you talk about freewill on one hand and then talk of "islam specifying how you must act/think according to a code of ethic which is compulsorily binding"? (your words under another topic)
Secondly, how sensible is it that your allah will reward you with works of flesh in heaven becuase you are obedient in avoiding the same works on earth? The reason it makes sense to you is because your definition of infidelity and works of flesh are different. Unfortunately what is actually infidelity is permitted in islam; talk about temporary marriages, sex with children, multiple sexual partners, officially sanctioned lying called Taqqiya, etc
So you see, your understanding of works of flesh and infidelity is convoluted; that is the blindness of Islam. how it imprison apparently brilliant peoples like you beats me. Dont talk about choice or freemind here. You are being shown right and left how islam does not make sense; and dont take it as a personal attack.

belloti:
Can you see how you can get cowed in by any critical posting. You d rather have mukina alone here to toy with than any one coming in who seem a little less friendly. You are even doubting the anatomical configuration of the person. May be you think a lady can't be so sharp. You guys just hate Islam but why?

@Bellotiiiiiii,
Haba, is muske's post what you, of all peoples, call "critical posting"? C'mon Belloti, I am not surprised because you've said it before that you'll alway be on the side of a 'jammat', regardless of how docile, stupid and intrepid that particualar position might be. You've confirmed it, again and again.
I dont know the definition of your 'sharp' but did your allah not say "we made Eve stupid" and did muhammed not say most of the occupants of hell are women becuase they are stupid and disobey their husbands? Is that why you think I infered she is not sharp simply because I compared her to babs787? Are you indirectly saying babs is stupid?
We just analysed her aggressive and empty post without regard to gender and no where did anybody say anything about sharp or not sharp. But because of what you already have in mind about women, you are quick to jump to the conclusion.
As per your question, the answer is affirmative because Islam is the work of the devil and we've been instructed to expose all satanic works, and rebuke them with no 'political-correctness'. Islam is deception and a sin; it is the ultimate rebellion against the Living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob just like homosexuality and bestiality, paedophilia, etc

belloti:
Islam on the other hand, its a complete way of life, it has a culture of communication, of lifestyle, of appearance, of sleeping, of Sex (), of eating and even of shaking hands. It always provide for the most modest and most respectful way of living. However, there is a difference between Islam and a muslim. If a muslim chooses to behave as he wishes that has nothing to do with Islam. Its essentially about that person. But we can not have gay Imams in Islam. thats not possible. Here is where the difference lies. We have code of ethics that are compulsorily binding especially on religious leaders.

@Belloti,
My suggestion to your "uncle" who is now AWOL extends to you too: when you write, first read it before sending it unto the www for the whole world to see. A culture of anti-intellectualism seems to pervade in the entire islamic culture and you've further confirmed it. So, islam is a "complete way of life, it has a culture of communication,,,,,,,,,,,even of shaking of hands"; in other words, islam also specify a "culture of thinking" as part of the "code of ethics that are compulsorily binding" on all of you. So, how can you reason how of the box? Are you capable of lateral or integrated thinking or rational analysis at all?
It is`obvious you are not; just listen to youself above. you claim to know what it takes to become a christian and you gave a pathethic description that shows you either do not understand what you read in the bible you claim to read (injeel) or you are being miserly with truth. BELLOTI, get understanding, you really need it!!!

@All,
This liar sat in Ibadan talking about why woem are turning to islam in Britain. Who told you that and where did you get the quoted piece from? Maybe it was your Oustass who brought the paper, abi? Yeye man. The whole world is turning away from the works of the devil you call Islam, and some foolish peoples are covering your eyes with fat lies.
Just a couple pf days ago, Channel 4 showed a program called " Dispatches" of an undercover reporter who went into mosques with hidden cameras and recorded the messages; we were showed how the imams themselves declared that it is right to have sex with a 9yr old girl because muhammed did; muslims were told it is islamic to hit their wives if she disobeys them or refuses to wear a nikab; they said it is right to "flog" the child by the age of seven if he/she refuses to pray or wear hijab, that matrydom is the quest of every true muslim, etc etc.
Today we heard how a male muslim terrorism suspect wore the nikab to escape the police but he was caught.
Those who are interested can check the program on: www.channel4.com/dispatches (the title of the episode is "undercover mosques"

This are some of the reasons why the whole Britain are turning away from the islam because they now know that Islam is a religion of hatred, wickedness, debauchery, lies, intolerance, in fact it is clear that Islam is an idolatory because it's root is in polytheism masked as monotheism. Have you not heard of al-illah and hubal (the moon god of arab pagans), and his duaghter godesses' called al-Lat, al-Uzzah and Manat?

So stop believing the lies you are being fed, in fact more of your muslimas are escaping from islam once they get here because they are protected by the law from being killed as an apostate for converting to chrsitianity. Wake up, dude!

Al-'Uzza, al-Lat and Manah, the three daughters of Allah, had their sanctuaries in the land which later became the cradle of Islam. In a weak moment Muhammad was tempted to recognize these powerful deities of Makkah and al-Madinah and make a compromise in their favour, but afterwards he retracted and the revelation is said to have received the form now found in surah 53:19-20. Later theologians explained the case according to the principle of nasikh and mansukh, abrogating and abrogated verses, by means of which God revokes and alters the announcements of His will; this results in the cancellation of a verse and the substitution of another for it (Koran 2 :100). (History Of The Arabs, Philip K. Hitti, 1937, p 96-101)

Can you see how muhammed is pulling wools over the eyes of muslims? Useless man, prophet ko, prophet ni!

@Babyosisi, Davidylan, Shahan,
Hi guys, just came across this 'goat' of Ibadan called islampride; you should not be surprised at his anti-intellectual, motor-park-tout use of language or curses. You know, there is a Yoruba proverb about Ibadan (capital of Oyo State) that "Ija igboro l'arun ibadan", that is "street fight is the curse of ibadan." This is only true of Adebidu type of ibadan children like islampride and his equally bereft sister muske, because there are many decent and brilliant peoples in Ibadan or from Ibadan who are not afflicted with that tout mentality.
But, this nairaland is getting more bizzare each and everyday with docile and empty liars who come with nothing but curses to support their wicked faith. How else will you know a true muslim, a real follower of the marauding, paedophilic bandit called muhammed (piss be upon him), a prophet of a pagan god/idol called Hubah or al-illah a.k.a allah and his daughter gods called al-Lat, al-Uzzah and Manat:
Read this from the inglorious quran, containing the command by muhammed for his followers to worship and pray to the daughter goddesses. (He later said he was tricked by satan to write it and it was deleted from the quran; but we know the truth, the entire Quran is from satan, djinn!

"Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for. What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair! (an-Najm 53:19-22)

So, let him keep on cursing himself; but we will bless him and he will heap the hot coals of fire upon his own head. But we will tell the truth that has been ordained before the begining of ages and is now revealed to us, the saints of Gods. Let's keep on showing them the truth, the way and the life; and keep on exposing the works of devil called Islam.

muske:
babysis,

ve noticed most of your thread that something is missing "upstairs". most of your threads are based on copying, lifting and pasting from another link. now lets get straight to business. i owe you no apology for my tone because you deserve more than. if you are really up to the task, lets open a thread and you with a question and myself a question too and we slug it out there, you and i only without any third party.

@Babyosisi et al,
Ok, do you see what I see? This 'above' sounds and looks like a "she" version of that guy who is always in "I am waiting" mode.

winie:
According to Rom:5:1 a christian that is believes that Jesus is lord and alive is justified by faith. This means that God sees us as sinless. This is an awesome truth. i know that many may find it hard to believe, but its true. We are no longer under the curse of sin.

@winie,
Yours is a simple but brilliant post. But why do you think "most christians" don't know this? I believe a genuine bible believing christian should know it. I especially like the phrase "God sees us as sinless" because it simplistically defines 'justification' which means to be 'declared righteous'. In other words, we are in good standing with God because of faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. However, this is not an opportunity to continue living in or committing sin while believing that we've been declared righteous; the same faith in Jesus Christ that we confess at conversion should produce good works leading to regeneration, while knowing that we have a constant advocate.
Bless you!

@ Babyosisi and all,
I went through the link provided by mamaosisi and found this hilariously stupid Islamic teachings by Ayatolah Khomeini on marriage, divorce and relationships; check this out:

"If a man is called upon, for medical reasons, to look upon a woman other than his wife and to touch her body, he is permitted to do so, but if he can give such care by only looking at the body he must not touch it, and if he can give it by only touching, he must not look at it."

Babyosisi, isn't this interesting from a medical practitioner's point of view!!!E.g. in a situation where a woman needs surgey and the only available surgeon(s) is a man, such a male surgeon will have to be blinfolded to operate on the woman, abi, just jiving, but isn't this ludicrous

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not comitted a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."

Obviously, this is from the act of prophet muhammed, the peadophile-in-chief-of-islam. This is sicker-than-your-average!

"A woman may legally belong to a man in one of two ways; by continuing marriage or temporary marriage. In the former, the duration of the marriage need not be specified; in the latter, it must be stipulated, for example, that it is for a period of an hour, a day, a month, a year, or more."

So therefore, "short-time" is permitted islamically, afterall it is just a "short-time" or temporary marriage for a purpose!

"A father or a paternal grandfather has the right to marry off a child who is insane or has not reached puberty by acting as its representative. The child may not annul such a marriage after reaching puberty or regaining his sanity, unless the marriage is to his manifest disadvantage."

Nne, What a good way to abuse the mentally-challenged, just dispose 'it' off by marriage; but who go marry am? Babyosisi, you no go kill person for this nairaland! where did you get this link.

"A marriage is annulled if a man finds that his wife is afflicted with one of the seven following disabilities: madness, leprosy, eczema, blindness, paralysis with aftereffects, malformation of the urinary and genital tracts or of the genital-tract and rectum through conjoining thereof, or vaginal malformation making Coitus impossible." "If a wife has her marriage annulled because her husband is unable to have sexual relations with her either vaginally or anally , he must pay her as damages one-half of her mehryeh (her price) specified in the marriage contract. If the husband or wife annuls the marriage for any of the above-mentioned reasons, the man owes nothing to the woman if they have had sexual relations together; if they have not, he must pay her the full amount of the dowry."

In other words, a fifty something yr old man can marry a 10/11 yr old girl, have sex with her and impregnates and if she develops VVF as a result of obstructed labour due to her age, simply annul the marriage, and look for the next 9 yr old. No wonder the war against VVF is the north is failing.

"A woman temporarily married, say, for a month or a year, has her marriage automatically annulled at the end of that time, or at any other time when the husband releases her from the balance of her engagement. It is not necessary for this that there be any witnesses, or that the woman have had her period."

Amazing, indeed amazing!

"A woman who wishes to pursue her studies toward the end of being able to earn her living through respectable work, and who has a male teacher, may do so if she keeps her face covered and has no contact with men; but if-that is inevitable, and religious and moral tenets are thus undermined, she must give up her studies. Girls and boys who attend coeducational classes in grammar schools, high schools, universities, or other teaching establishments, and who, in order to legalize such a situation, wish to contract a temporary marriage may do so without the permission of their fathers."

No, let me get this straight; a boy and girl in a mixed school should get "temporarily married" for them to be able to attend class in a mixed school, and that a girl should give-up her studies if she has a male teacher and the logistics of the course wil not allow a nikab. Is this insanity or what?

gists:
@mukina2 Sallam alykum,

Insha Allah no one will ever hit you. But that will only be guaranteed if you marry a muslim (just in case you're not married). Even if you did something wrong, you husband will be guided by the Qur'an as to how to deal with the situation. If in the most unlikely event that it get to the popular beating part, he will not touch your face, abdomen, head or any sensitive part of your body (that leaves just your palm/arm and legs). Guess what, he will only beat you with a miswak meaning tooth-cleaning stick or at best a toothbrush because the prophet was once angery and said: 'If it were not for the fear of retaliation on the Day of Resurrection, I would have beaten you with this miswak (tooth-cleaning stick)' [as reported by Ibn Majah and by Ibn Hibban, in his Sahih]

@All,
Every decent person alive should lose any shred of respect for GIST from thisday onwards. I have discussed with you previously and I had a good impression of you from your discussion, but this!!!! Oh my God. Indeed, not only babyosisi do you make sick, you make every decent and right-thinking person, male or female, sick to the deepest part of the gut.

babs787:
sorry i was a dropped out. can you refer me to any pastoral school.

babs,
sorry you dont need to go to pastoral school yet, not while you are still struggling with basic comprehension and english language. Flipping ignoramus! a "dropped" out indeed!

Gentle men & Ladies,

Babs has not said any wrong or bad! He quoted the Qur'an correctly.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,But we muslims are supposed to emulate Muhammad, its just makes sense to learn how he treted his wives

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Generally, the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) used to discourage his followers from taking even this measure (the beating part). He never hit any female, and he used to say that the best of men are those who do not hit their wives.

In one Hadith he expressed his extreme repulsion from this behavior and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

But the verse still stands because in some instances it might just be helpful. Thank God Muhammad realised the possibility of the abuse of this verse as he described intesity of the beating part as "dharban ghayra mubarrih" which means "a light tap that leaves no mark". He further said that the face must be avoided.

@Davidylan, On this you are very correct: this is an equally woeful but colouful attempt to defend the barbaric faith of Islam. Although the author appears to be more cerebral than babs787, the very attempt to explain what can not be justified has revealed a dogmatic 'closed-reasoning' approach to issues by Islamic scholars.

This is just a bundle of oxymorons: "dont beat the woman because the prophet never beat any woman, but the prophet said if you must beat her, beat her lightly leaving no marks and avoid the face".
Indeed this is shameful!

belloti:
When a man dies and his relatives are busy in funeral, there stands an extremely handsome man by his head. When the dead body is shrouded, that man gets in between the shroud and the chest of the deceased. When after the burial, the people return home, 2 angels, Munkar and Nakeer (names of two special Angels), come in the grave and try to separate this handsome man so that they may be able to interrogate the dead man in privacy about his faith.
But the handsome man says, "He is my companion, he is my friend. I will not leave him alone in any case. If you are appointed for interrogation, do your job. I cannot leave him until I get him admitted into Paradise".

Thereafter he turns to his dead companion and says, "I am the Qur'an, which you used to read, sometimes in a loud voice and sometimes in a low voice. Do not worry. After the interrogation of Munkar and Nakeer you will have no grief. When the interrogation is over, the handsome man arranges for him from Al-Mala'ul A'laa (the angels in heaven) a silk bedding filled with musk.

Rasulullah (Sallallaahu 'alaihe wasallam) said: "On the Day of Judgment, before Allah, no other intercessor will have a greater status than the Qur'an, neither a Prophet nor an angel

@Davidylan,
This is not just a fairy tale; it is quite unfortunate but this is one of the "veils" that is being used to keep these guys in perpetual darkness and bondage called Islam. Can anything beat this type of lie from the pit of hell? This is the very reason why the 'inglorious' quran plagiarises everything about Jesus the Christ but denies his crusifixion and ressurection- the very source of salvation. Because Christ is the revelation/salvation, but islam presents the quran as the revelation/salvation to our muslim friends. So guys, if you really are interested in ministering to muslims, forget about muhammed (he is an inconsequential failure and a liar) but focus on the book of lies and deception called "Quran or al-Quran or Quran al-Kariim" upon which they are putting their hopes. What a shame!

Ugwumba:
Like I have said, you choose your ways, and I have chosen mine.
You may think this is 'political correctness', but your folly is that you think your ways are God's ways, and here the whole message of the Holy Books are lost on you.

@TayoD, shahan, Davidylan,
I agree completely with you guys. Many times I have had to declare that my perceived 'hatred for Islam' is just an hatred for all such works of darkness from whom we've been instructed to have no fellowship and reprove as written in Eph 5:11 posted by shahan.

But importantly, why not see the quotation of dear ugwumba which I highlighted in red colour; then you can understand who he is. You know you can read into peoples mind by just reading whatever they wrote. This guy believes in "Holy Books" (plural) so you should not be surprised by all he said. Becuase we know and we declare it boldly that: "THERE IS ONLY ONE HOLY BOOK; IT COMPRISES THE OLD TESTAMENT OF JESUS CHRIST & THE NEW TESTAMENT OF JESUS CHRIST -- IT IS CALLED THE HOLY BIBLE."
Did I hear somebody say 'which version': All the different versions, as long as it declares the Old and New testaments of Jesus Christ. Even I hear there is a Bible for prostitutes, it is a Holy Bible as long as it fulfils above and leads them to Christ!!

Shahan, Davidylan, TayoD, Babyosisi and even Mukina2,
God in Heaven knows that you guys are indeed special group of beings; because to have really continued trying to educate this babs787 beats my imagination! Is it possible that you are talking to a primary school student? Not likely because his writing skills, though not good, surpasses that of primary school student in Nigeria. If this guys has finished secondary school, then public secondary education in Nigeria must be a disaster. However, if he actually is a student or has finished 'any type' of tertiary education, then we are in a state of emergency.

I am saying this because in this century, people are now advocating that we need to change the definition of illiteracy from not just being "unable to read or write";  it must also include those who can read and write but are just totally incapable of understanding basic explanations!  He is a champion. Is it possible he has some form of undiagnosed dyslexia?

@TayoD and Babyosisi,
Guys, how you dey! I'll suggest you ignore this attention-seeking babs787 as I have done, you can see I did not even respond to his post. In december he stumbled on, and decided to contribute to, a disagreement between Olabowale and myself that took place in Sept/October after which we've settled and are now good friends on Nairaland.
But he is just waking up, you know he is always waiting, because his brain is always in "waiting" or "standby" mode.
Let him write more than that, he is somebody of low/sub-human intellect, so dont bother much with whatever he wrote! It's really not his fault

babs787:
1) i ask you, did the bible teach you to love your wife that bring concubine to your bedroom more than twice, u will pat her on the back and tell her welldone baby, i still love and will continue loving you.

2) does your bible tells u to love a wife that changed her attitude and started going wayward eg, coming home late and uve told her and she didnt take to correction. u will continue loving her. NA WA O

3) does your bible tells u to love a wife that doesnt perform her role like cooking,

, Well, the answer to all the three questions above is quite interestinly YES in capital letters. Because the 'Bible' tells us to love our wife unconditionally, to forgive each other unconditionally just as God forvies us of our sin, to live and lead each other in the paths of righteousness, etc etc But the 'Bible' did not tell us to upbraid or 'lightly beat' our wives in any situation! What of the wayward husbands, oh, nothing can be done. Babs, why don't you stop sounding so silly and childish. You are not making sense!! Is it islamic not to be able to think laterally? Gosh!!

belloti:
i would love to have replied all of you but i noticed some deliberate attempt at falsehood by Havila and Maliki, i don't need to go after an exercise in futility. Mr Havila as always choose to create some unreasonable and flimpsy excuses to tarnish islam just because he had to do it not for any sensible purpose.

Ibadur Rahman or rather the servants of God are basic descriptions of pious muslims and i don't see how that can be confusing to any responsible adult.

@Belloti,
It is really glaring that you do not think through your posts before posting them. WHy dont you address that so-called "delibrate flasehoods" in my post? You cannot because I have revealed the futlity of your belief system called Islam. Isn't it idiotic that you are saying a write-up backed up by saying of "allah" should not really be used to judge the doctrine you profess? You are exercising the same dogmatic "closed-reasoning" that makes you resist a critique of the tenets of Islam. Why dont you objectively read throug my rejoinder, search the scriptures and then respond or get understanding, instead of sulking like a child. Belloti, I am not tarnishing Islam, you are the one tarnishing islam by bringing it under the limelight for the world to see that it is all false. You cannot reconcile your position because you lack the basic intellectual capacity to contructively appraise!
By the way, have a wonderful new year, and give my regards to your family. God bless.

@Gist,
Hi, and thanks for your warning message to babs787 above; I have read a couple of your posts in other topics and I guess you are currently a muslim, but most importantly you are humbly interested in seeking wisdom. Please keep it up, as God himself will enrich your heart of understanding. Bless you and have a great year ahead.

Now @babs787,
I really really pity you and your soul; because your ignorance is fuelled by spiritual pride and a dark heart with no knowledge. Are you trying to prove that Jesus is a sinner? Haa! you are on the path to destroying your life and your soul eternally and it will be wicked to leave you without warning.

Listen to what  the Bible as well as your quran says of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 2:21-22: ",,,,because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth."

1 John 3:5: "And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."

Jesus Himself said in John 8 :46: "Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?"

In addition, Soskilam has graciously provided quotations from three different translations of the your Quran, probably you've not read that part or you are dyslexic:

[Shakir 19:19] He said: "I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy".
[Yusufali 19:19] He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
[Pickthal 19:19] He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

In conclusion babs, in Matthew 12:32 Jesus Christ said: "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
In your "attempt" to prove that Jesus is a sinner, what you are doing is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; you are now delibrately rejecting the Christ, His Holy Ghost-empowered sinless life and many miracles. You are not just denying salvation, but now putting yourself outside the reach of the grace and mercy of God. Waoh!!, you must be very very stupid to declare war on "Him who is able to destroy both the body and the Soul in Hell" (Matt 11:28)
No wonder, I was actually wondering why most of your posts are outrightly foolish, now I know why. You need help.

Part 1.
4. They ask for safety from Hell- Fire:
"In spite of their performance of both voluntary and mandatory prayers they do not feel that they have done enough and they still fear the punishment of Allah. They are so humble, before Allah, that they do not say, ’Allah give us Heaven for the good deeds we have done’, rather they ask for safety from Hell-Fire for the evil deeds they might have done knowingly or unknowingly. No one should ever think that he deserves Heaven by his deeds. One can never pay back a small portion of the blessings of Allah in this life only, even if he spent all his life in worship. This is why the prophet (saaw) said in a Hadeeth: "No one shall enter Heaven by his deeds"; when his companions replied "even you, o messenger of Allah", he said "even me; unless Allah bestow his mercy on me"

@Belloti,
Sometime ago, you opined that you do not see how christianity makes sense; well, you've revealled one of the most important reasons why Islam DOES NOT make any sense, and that the Grace of God through faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven.
If you read through your quotation above with attention to the highlighted portions: you can see that Muhammed has "actually confessed" indirectly that there is no Salvation in Islam!!! How? Since the theology and doctrine of Islam preaches salvation by works, sunnah etc, how do you reconcile that with "No one shall enter Heaven by his deeds" (?). Everything presented in Islam is all about belief, deeds and works and NO faith!
In addition, going through the above quote again, it is very clear that Islam is an opportunity to live in "Antinomianism" (please look for the meaning if you dont know it)

Part 2:
Tabari I:280
"Allah said, "It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent."

But the True God said in Isaiah 1:18 that "Come now, let us reason together,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"; and also David said in Psalms 139:14, in describing us, God's creation: "I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Another evidence that 'allah' is not the true living God!!!!

ThiefOfHearts:
This thread's too much of a headache for me to wade through.

Not surprised at that; going by your usual dyslexic, maniacal and outrightly silly contributions, it is obvious that seeking knowledge is not one of your attributes. Why not move over to "sexuality and/or romance forum". you will be more relevant there.! Bye

@Genial,
hmmm,,,,,,,,,,,yes and no! Yes it is true John TB baptised Jesus as recorded in the passage you quoted, and also in Matthew 3 vs 11-17 (same story). But do you know that John TB later QUERIED/DOUBTED the messiahship of Jesus when he was imprisoned, in Matthew 11 vs 2-3: "Now when John had heard in the prison the works (of Jesus) he sent two of his disciples, And said unto him, Art though he that should come, or do we look for another?

And in response, Jesus now sent message back to John TB (that was my initial answer) in Matt 11vs 4-5 that:
"Go and show John those things which ye do hear and see. The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them."

The highlighted portions are Jesus's allusions to Isaiah 35:5 and Isaiah 61:1, where it is stated that these will be some of the works performed by the Messiah. Hence, Jesus was clearly vindicating his messiahship to John who questioned/doubted His messiahship, while wondering why Jesus left him in prison! Yes it is true John TB proclaimed Jesus the messiah at Baptism, but did he really "undoubtedly" believe it himself or really know it, until Jesus asserted it?

@Bobbyaf,
Sir, thanks for this post,,,,,but I have a couple of worries which I will like you to clarify just for 'oneness' of our Gospel and for the edification of the saints reading!
First, Are you saying we are being Judged from Heaven even as we are on earth and alive right now, according to the topic of your post?

Secondly, what exactly do you mean by the term "judgement" from your posts?

Thirdly, Do you know and agree that there are actually 4 (four) Judgements scripturally?; each occuring at different times. (In fact, one has occured on the cross i.e. Judgement of Sin; second is Judgement of saints/men at death or rapture; 3rd is Jugement of Nations; and fourth is the Great White throne Judgement or the second death of Revelations 20:12 and not John 20:12)

(NB: Hebrews 9:27: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but "AFTER" this the judgment.)

Genial:
My question: How did John the baptist know that Jesus was the Christ, the Messiah?

@Genial,
Jesus Christ simply quoted Isaiah 35:5 and 61:1 where it is written that the coming messiah will give the blind their sight and preach the gospel to the poor. By telling John that He is doing those things, Jesus Christ alluded to his Messiahship, thus John TB knew Jesus is the Messiah.

@Babyosis, m4malik, Davidylan,
I know why muslim leaders teach hatred of Paul to the muslimis. It is all in the scriptures. If you read carefully the various epistles of Paul in the Bible, you can see that Paul has accurately predicted the coming of this "religion" called Islam.
For example, Paul declared the root and destiny of Islam in the book of Galatians 4 vs 22-26. Listen
"For it is written that Abraham had two sons, the one by a slavewoman, the other by a freewoman. (23) But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. (24) Which things are symbolic: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Hagar. (25) For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and correspond to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. (26) But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."

Now, we know that Ishmael, the son of Hagar, is the progenitor of Muhammed and his ideology called Islam. Notice the continous expression of "which now is, and is in bondage with her children." Having predicted the root and destiny of Islam, there is no way they will want you to talk about Apostle Paul!!. But will will declare the truth so that they can be saved.

In addition, look at the 2nd Epistle of Paul to Timothy, chapter 3 vs 1-9 about "the coming apostasy". It accurately describes Islam among others. (Read especially from Vs. 5-9). Verse 1 says: "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,5. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6. For of this sort are they are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts. 7. Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall manifest unto all men, as their's was."

Now if you look especially at the higligted portions of these verse, you will see the Islam of today.

(NB:Jannes and Jambres were Pharaoh magicians who tried to perfom the same miracles of Moses e.g turning rod to snake.)

Question: Is muhammed a prophet sent by allah?

@All,
I agree totally that muhammed is "a prophet" of allah. But the main question, just as m4malik rightly pointed out is "Who is allah?" Well, we've variously pointed out that although muslims are being deceived into thinking muhammed and Jesus are prophets of the same God, 'we know and we understand' that allah is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; the God of All Grace and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; the Father of All Creation; Maker of Heaven and Earth.

We've variously posted historical and archeological evidences that shows that Allah was/is a deity of compromise between muhammed and the pagans of Makka. Most of Islamic rituals were incorporated from the same practice by the idolaters of makka. Islam is an ideology based on polytheistic belief: the Islamic chant of 'Allah u arkbar' correctly translated means allah is the "greatest". If so, "greatest" among who? Answer: Greatest among the other idols who are co-worshipped in the Kaabba. allah is a translation of the moon-god of the pagans of makka.
The "allahs" said in the Quran that And "WE" gave the gift of Psalms to David; but Islam denies the Sonship and/or divinity of Jesus Christ. However David said in the same Psalms, in reference to God the father and Jesus the son, that "And the Lord said to my Lord, sit though at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool". David also of the Jesus in Psalms that "Kiss the Son (Jesus) least he be angry,,,,,,,," We can go on and on, but the truth is that Islam is idolatory, a work of deception trying to gain credibility by alluding to Lord Jesus Christ.
So therefore, that muhammed is a prophet of allah is undoubtedly true, but the truth is that muhammed is NOT a prophet of the True and living God. Yahweh Tsidkenu; the Lord our Righteousness!!

A true test of a true prophet is the conformity of his/her doctrines to the scriptures. If Muhammed claims that allah sent the torah to the true prophets of old, how come the Quran is denying the Sonship and the Messianic office of Jesus Christ which have been promised and prophesied in various passages of the Torah or Taurat?

"By their fruits ye shall know them". A good tree will always bear good fruits. "Fruit" here indicates the doctrine of prophets and their way of life, as well as the life and lifestyle of their followers. We have seen that the doctrine of Muhammed is false and not consistent with the Torah/Taurat he claims allah sent. Now take a look at the life and lifestyle of muhammed, and that of his followers who were and still are very willing to take human life at the slightest opportunity. Muhammed was lying when he said he was not sure what God would do to him when he was about to die because time was up, in fact he knew he was going straight to hell!!