₦airaland Forum

Afam:
A typical example is the last Israeli/Lebanese war that saw a Lebanese government handicapped while Hezbollah fought back and you will agree with me that the defence put up by Hezbollah is responsible for the current quest to change the status quo in the Lebanese cabinet.

@All,
Take a look at the quoted statement above: can anybody beat this?. I am sure we have P.R.Os worse than the late Wada Nas among Nigerian youths should in case we have a new dictator needing one. This is very 'objectively' embarrasing.
Israel / Lebanese war? Hezbollah "fought back"? "Defence put up" by Hezbollah? Are you living on this planet earth or living in Pluto and watching reports on Al-jazeerah Pluto TV?

@All,
I know that politics is a game of chess, and it is always good to know the move of the guy on the other side of the table. The choice of Goodluck as VP candidate by Yar-adua is making me think something is on the offing in Nigeria. Is this preparing the way for South-South to become president of Nigeria?. Do you think Yar-adua might resign before completing even the first term and Goodluck will become president?. Well, it's all good.

olabowale:
But to blame Islam for the woes of the North of Nigeria will be same as to blame Christianity for the woes and malaise plaguing Nigeria. Afterall, Mr. President Obasanjo is a Chritian. A Yoruba at that. Yet, there are Muslims in his own extended family in Abeokuta.

@All,
Now this is bizarre and precocious: The 'elitist' doctrine which is favoured in Islam is what has kept the Northern Nigeria , and most countries with large muslim populations, backward. In the North, a few are rich from stealing the country blind, but the poor majority accept them as 'blessed' and no questions asked; as long as they give alms. This is called 'fortune.'? In most Arab countries, the same thing applies, few rich families are the owners of the kingdom, while the majority are to survive on government this or that. No wonder the rebellion against government in Saudi now and the fear of the ruling 'elites'.
We know one of the former Sultans of Sokoto declared that western education is not good islamically and encourage the peoples to go to quranic schools; whereas his own children were in elite schools abroad in Uk and US. See the Sultan of Hypocrisy. The most progress Nigeria has made since independence is during this present regime of Obasanjo, I dare say that.

,,,that it is 'sunnah' to wear a beard simply because muhammed does ;but they do not know why muhammed does. We ask but the answer is it is 'sunnah' again. So, back to "circular reasoning" again as usual.

@Olabowale,
Maybe you should allow younger 'jammat' like Belloti and co to continue discussing here because it is obvious you are loosing touch with reality with all these bizarre and illogical posts. I don't remember calling you 'idiotic',,,,,,probably that's from your self-assessment and it's not my business then, abi? Really you waste a lot of space in making no sense at all, just take a look at the length of your post and unsurprisingly there is no valuable content in it. Now, that's quite confusing. You do not need to burst a vein, because you do not have the skill or capacity to twist what is written by me: no where did I or anybody justified discrimination from the bible; but it is only in your quran where you are taught to "tax" unbelievers into "submission/conversion", is that not discrimination?. My explaining the affliction/bongage of Ishmael is simply explaining the prophecy spoken about Ishmael in Genesis 16 vs 10-13 and seeing the escathological relevance of that prophesy to the descendants of Ishmael in today's world. Listen:

"And the angel of the Lord said unto her (i.e Hagar), I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with a child, and shall bear a son, and shall call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; and his hand will be against everyman and everyman's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren."

We know that Ishmael is the progenitor or forefather of the Arabs and thus of Muhammed and his sick ideology called Islam. Simply take a honest look at the prophesy on Ishmael above (written thousands of years ago) and relate that to today's world; vis-a-vis Islam and the rest of the world; and you will see that Islam is a fulfillment of the affliction of Ishmael. It is a known fact that Islam is the major danger to peace and freedom in the world today; it also poses a great threat to the salvation of millions of those in it. What is it about Ishmael? Well, since ten (10) years has elapsed since God promised an heir to Abraham and Sarah, and they were still with no child, they decided to take matters into their own hands. This negative, doubting action produces Ishmael as a "work of the flesh" in contrast to Isaac who is a promised product of the "Spirit of God." You have a problem with that? simply take it up with God; who can question Him? He does things according to his infinite power and wisdom and to purpose. And by the way, Hagar was not a black African woman; an Egyptian woman in those days does not translate to Africa. Africa was not in existence then, in fact the entire region of Egypt and middle east where one entity as of then. So, in your attempt to make this an emotional issue, you've shown your obvious ignorance of the scriptures. What do you read in the quran sef? She was a slave with no right as of then, but lives in the benevolence of the owner. However, we know that slave or freeman, black or white, once your are in Jesus Christ, you are a Child of God and a joint-heir of the Kingdom of God in the body of Christ. (Ephesians 2 vs11-13; Galatians 3 vs 28) So do you see how senseless you sound in trying to justify slavery and discrimination with the Bible or Christianity? Get wisdom, my friend, you are in serious need of it!!

Let me help you in getting the needed wisdom by providing an assignment for you and Belloti: it is true that when Jesus was born, three (3) wise men went to Him with three different gifts: Gold, Myrrh and Frankincense. In the ancient east history and practise, go and find out what Frankincense is used for. That is another answer to Belloti's question on Christianity and the Divinity of Jesus Christ. I know individually seeking wisdom is not an islamic virtue, so you can go and ask at the masjid too.
Did I hear you say muhammed was not a recluse; but he received the first revelations of the quran while 'reclusing' inside a cave. Give you 'profiles' to an uninformed like yourself. Muhammed was a sex pervert, a recluse, a nymphomaniac, a paedophile, a rascist, woman abuser who told his followers to beat their wives gently; a power hungry cretin who 'formulated' Islam as a power-grabbing instrument. Indeed, a false prophet who only command followership out of intimidation and lies which is still the tool-in-trade of todays' Islam. Are you fuming from the nose yet? wait for more,,,,,,,,,,,

Kai, this Alhaji Olabowale,
I can see your understanding of Islam is so rich that you even know that most other muslims dont know Islam, but you. You see how "judgemental" you are: that is so so shallow, inept and bereft of true knowledge or true faith. Again, that is anchored on your 'elitist' mentality as I told you before, which is very quick to point fingers of judgement at others, whereas you are not showing much knowledge yourself. You are so transparent, you make me laugh out of pity most times when I read you post. You need direction urgently regardless of how long you've been on earth. I thank God for your honesty in admitting some new-christians are now in your family. This is a testimony to what God is going to do in your life and family before you die. God will use those brethren as a point of contact to touch you too. Do not resist it, the Light has come.

As per inspiration from Muhammed; reading about Muhammed will fill any right-thinking person with what is described as "righteous indignation"- a form of holy anger- at how wicked muhammed is: a slimy playboy who married a much older but richer woman simply for her wealth a.k.a Muhammed the Giggolo; his treatment and description of women; marriage and sex with children who were still palying with toys (Aisha bin Talal); hallucination called revelation inside a cave probably induced by systemic dissemination of a bacterial sexually transmitted disease; his teachings of wickedness, killings, slavery, taxing etc; and the fact that he is leading some peoples into hell with his false ideology of idolatory called Islam where salvation is by works not by faith, were forgiveness is temporal and positional in ramadan and hajj respectively.
No, I cannot cry but have pity and pray that God will open your eyes into the debauchery you are deepy indoctrinated into.

@Olabowale,
This is your trademark "circular reasoning" we've known for some time, now at one of it's best or rather worst!! The only entry you can add to the information about the demagogue 12th Imam is a 2 liners of glaring empty information. We know the Shi'a understanding of the 12 lunatic,,sorry imam!, tell us what you know or don't know so we can help you out rather than go offtopic as always, ,that is an escape tactic for the uninformed.

I can see my explanation of some biblical passages is confounding you,,,,,well that is the the hidden mysteries of God that he has made known to those who know Him. Your dismay is because in your heart you can reason along with the explanations but you refuse to accept it. C'mon as they say: "Hate the game, don't hate the player! bro"

You LACK the knowledge and capacity of discerning what is of substance and what is not when it comes to the Word of the living God; but those who are not consumed by the 'elitist' mentality as you,  are understanding and agreeing with the explanations as can be attested to by various acknowledgements and appreciations. TayoD has the knowledge and understanding as can be judged from the product of his research; but even you a self-acclaimed muslim, is bereft of any credible statement. Maybe you should ask TayoD to help you out on this one. We are in modern ages now, we have the faith in the living God, we have the understanding of the works of wickedness and we have been commanded to expose all such works. So don't hide under the "circular reasoning excuse" of "you have knowledge but you don't have faith" mantra. So how can you convert an educated non-muslim? Oh, I know, simply accept the dogma of the 'salvation by works' called Islam a.k.a bondage of Ishmael; and live like or according to Muhammed- the prophet of idolatory, paedophile, sex-pervert, war-monger, hallucinator, cave-dwelling leviathan, manage-a-23 sexpert, women abuser and apostle of hedonistic bliss called 'jannat'! C'mon, can I say you are smarter than that,,,,,hope so! but We are smarter than that to be deceived as such. We know who your coming messiah is, and he has been defeated even before coming from Hades!!We know the Light and the Truth, He has made us free. You still have a chance.

@TayoD et al,
As you know, you need perseverance if you want to discuss with Haji Olabowale; literal clarity is not one of his virtues. "Bizzare" and arrant "digressions" into obvious irrelevancies are some of his strongest oratorial skills, ,,,,,,sort of 'flight of ideas'. So welcome into the world and mind of a 21st century Islamic scholar who's got absolutely no clue of modern day thinking,,,,,,but how many of them scholars do anyway, I think they are in 1472. Enjoy the ride!!

@Olabowale,
In your usually ignorant rantings, you appear to be confusing idiotic dogma that is the mantra of Islam to the doctrine of Grace. You see, as it had been foretold in the bible, Christ is a rock of offense to some peoples, and a stumbling block because of their foolishness. While belief in God's love and grace through Jesus Christ is simple, for some people like you, it is too simple!! That's why the things of the true God appears foolish to those who belief that mercies of God and salvation can only come through 'works' like knocking your head on the floor five times; or going on a journey of Idolatory called Hajj, or stoning yourself at kaaba, and worst of all living like and following the wicked teachings of an acclaimed sexual pervert, murderer and paedophile called Muhammed- your prophet a.k.a sunnah.

The questions asked by the original poster have been variously answered and supported with passages from the scriptures. It is not that they've not been answered; your problem is because of your mind being in darkness, and the temporary benefits of whatever you are worshipping is keeping you in this darkness. This is making you choose not to understand or indeed not understand the things of light. Your statements are usually so illogical, it becomes difficult to tie it in to the topic for discussion. Having read about Islam and muhammed especially, one wonders how it will be very possible for a truly intelligent person to be a true muslim. What of all the bizzare stories you add, were those just a moment of memory shut-down or just rantings? They just don't tally to the issue on ground.
I have seen Islam, I have read about Islam and more also I have have read about Muhammed just like a lot of peoples in the world, it is clear that Islam is fulfilment of the "bondage of Ishmael" who was born into the bondage by the slavewoman Hagar. The curse of this bondage is being broken among the direct descendants of Ishmael (Arabs) today who are rapidly embracing and accepting Jesus and putting of the curse of Ishmael/anathema called Islam. That is why the concept of divine grace and mercies is difficult for you to understand/appreciate; because of the "bondage" that makes you seek to 'please God' with your mortal works. The True God first loved us before we loved Him. It is sheer arrogance and ignorance that is making most of the remaining 'jammat' to cling to this afflication called Islam. I will advise you 'jammat' especially Pa Olabowale, and his neophytes Belloti, Oyebanji07, babs787,etc, to please seek wisdom; it is not in the Quran, in your masjid or in your heart/mind. You guys are simply empty, and it is unfortunate!!!. There is still time as long as you are alive to get out of the affliction which you taken upon yourselves called Islam.

@All,
That was a brillinat post from 4Play. I have been trying to add to the comment but everytime I pick the keyboard, I kind of felt weigh-down by the recent political developments in my own Nigeria where it appears obvious that another bunch of looters, fake PhD degree holders, contractors and glorified market men are going to take over in 2007; with credible and dynamic young men loosing out in the power game. It then pushes the Palestine/Isreal issue out of my mind, I just get tired. Seriously!!

@Mr "Objective"
Going by the number of peoples you needed to reply and abuse one way or the other in one 'single' post, you are obviously living in your own little "objective" world where white appears black. Check it out:

Afam:
(1) @Havila,

I can see the objectivity in your posts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

(2) @TayoD,

You have been so so wrong on so many issues on this forum,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

(3) @David Adenuga & Mariory,

I guess I have given you people a reason to post more than one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

(4) @Chidichris,

That Arafat was corrupt did not take,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

(5) @Donzman,

Trying to explain anything to David is like pouring water,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

zexyworm:
Mr. Ahmadinejad is being unfairly villified in the West. What he called for is to wipe out the "Zionist entity" from the map, which is very different from "massacring all Jews in Israel". (what's the difference ) What he means is that Israel is an unsustainable state having been founded through terror organizations (Irgun, Hagana, etc.) and the systematic destruction of Arab villages prior in the final days leading to 1948 procalamation of independence. The population of Palestine was roughly 80% Arab and 20% Jewish of mostly European lineage. Israel realized that it could only start a false "Jewish character" of the land by opressing the Palestinians and making their lives a living hell (hoping they would all immigrate - which they haven't).

@CHIDICRIS AND ZEXYWORM,
It would have been benefitial if zexyworm had kindly given some sources or references for the information that predicated the brief "history" of Israel he gave. However, I will re-post an earlier write-up of mine under the Israel vs Hizbollah thread, with references which I will ask Zexyworm to independently research and present his own finding. The references are government papers and books produced following academic research and are mostly available online; rather than spurious faith-based websites. This is the re-print-->
=================================================================================

@All:
In most of the Pro-Palestine websites, the conclusions or basis for their support is usually predicated on the following statement, which is from one of such websites: "During the 1948 war, 750,000 Palestinians fled in terror or were actively expelled from their ancestral homeland and turned into refugees". This is so ignorant and deceitful because they refused to state that the "1948 war" was actually 'started' by a coalition of Six Arab countries who 'attacked' the new Israeli state who were then forced to 'defend' themselves then, as they are still doing till today.
But why start from 1948?, it is intellectually lazy to do so. In fact if you really want to understand the origin of the conflict, historically, you will have to start from 1200 BC when the dispersion of the Jews from the 'land of Israel' started, with persecution upon persecution in everyland and everycountry. You will discover that the name of this land of Israel was changed to 'Palestine' by one of the Roman Emperors during the early wave of the 'Roman Crusades': he did this because of his hatred for the monotheist Jews who were not polytheist like the Romans and thus named the land after the Philistines, who are polytheists like the Romans and an arch-enemy of the Israelites. You will get to 18th century when trickles of Jews started returning to the then 'Eretz Yisrael' called Palestine and either worked for or 'bought' arid lands from the Arab landowners before turning it to flourishing agricultural lands (this is called the first "Aliyah" or going up: 1840/70). Then get to 19th century when more Jews came back to 'their' land and 'bought' lands (sanctioned by the Turkish governor of the then 'Eretz Yisrael' under the Ottoman Empire and later the British government and the Arabs in the region) to escape the escalating persecution in Europe and rising anti-semitism elsewhere. It is an historical fact , and indeed true, that the first, second and subsequent waves of attacks on the Jews in Eretz Yisrael were initiated by Arabs under influence of the Haj Amin el Hussein- the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (a muslim Nazi ally) in the late 1920s and 1930s, (just as Ahmadinajad of Iran and Assad of Syria are doing today,) because the Jews were legally buying back their lands ironically and flourishing in it.

Arab opposition to Jews was not based only on economic and social issues; it was colored by the traditional Muslim vision of the Jews as second class citizens. All these was before the creation of Israel in 1948, so that conclusion above is obtuse. When we see young boys throwing stones on TV at armed Israeli soldiers, the sympathy is emotionally for the children, but what you don't see on TV is that behind the "boys with stones" are "adult men and women with AK47 and Katyusha rockets" who are the real aggressors.
I  have listed some references below. These are not spurious websites with religious coloration but books that are products of academic researches and government papers from both sides of the divide through which you can trace and get an understanding of the root of the conflict.

References:
1) A.D. Gordon, "Our Tasks Ahead" 1920
2) "Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs: From Peace to War", London: Oxford University Press, 1985.
3) "Land, Labor and the Origins of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict", 1882–1914, University of California Press, 1996
4) The BALFOUR Declaration
5) League of Nations Mandate
6) Benny Morris, Righteous Victims, Knopf 1999.
7) Mandel, Neville, "The Arabs and Palestine", UCLA, 1976
8 ) The Passfield White Paper
9) The Arab Revolt of 1936
10) The Macdonald White Paper of 1939
11) British Peel and Woodhead Commissions Report
12) UN Debate on Palestine Partition- November, 26, 1947

Afam:
@Chidichris & Zexyworm,
(1) The problem with discussing these issues with the seriousness and objectivity they require is that many are often blinded by certain mindsets and hidden hate filled ideologies that is usually masked by pretending to be christains while supporting oppression, injustices, killing of innocent people etc.

(2) Even some Americans attended the conference, the "spiritual leader of the KKK" and other "non islamic" people.

(3) Sunnis and christains formed an alliance in the days of Saddam, today Sunnis and Christains are doing the same in Lebanon where they have indeed sided with the Hezbollah to "democratically overthrow" the government of Lebanon that is backed by the West.

(4) The president of Iran is one of the most intelligent presidents I have heard or seen on TV discussing issues whether technical, religious or political with real confidence and without seeking help from his aides before answering questions.

@All ,
Using every standard definition of 'objectivity' known; going by the listed quotations above, is it appropriate to think the author is being "objective" and not influenced by his/her own preconceived notion or "faith"? No!. Simply look at the few highlighted portions in the quotations above and you can see obvious 'oxymorons' like "democratically overthrow"; as well as 'prejudicial statements' like "pretending to be Christians", "non-islamic peoples" etc

@Belloti,
We KNOW that the Living Almighty God is ONE in nature who exist in three spirits or offices or persons: We KNOW that God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is the SOURCE of All authorities in Heaven, Earth and under the earth; We KNOW that Jesus Christ is God the SON and he is the CHANNEL of All authorities; We also KNOW that the HOLY SPIRIT is God and he is the AGENT of All authorities.

("God is Spirit; and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.")

Additionally, we KNOW that allah (i.e al-illah) is NOT the Living God of Heaven and Earth, so it's not that we don't want to call Him allah; it is because allah in NOT the Living God who made the heaven and the earth.
Peace.

olabowale:
(1) When you read the Qur'an and the adith/sunnah and the life history of the Prophet and his followers, all you find is inspiration. If your heart is not harder than stone/rock, it will be easy for you to cry/weep.

(2) I am working on the few remaining in my mother's bloodline and unfortunately, the few that are just a beginning trend in father's family tree. This had never happened before and it needs to be cut off.I guess they find christianity to be a feel good in all kind of weather thing. Just believe in the hanging of an innocent soul and then do whatever you want. Be shameless, man. Be shameless.

@Olabowale,
I have been reading from you for sometime now; and I have a very good understanding of the way you think, write and understand issues.
You are highly consumed by what is called "Elitist" complex: a system of reasoning that is firmly rooted in 'class systems'. Probably that is as a result of your being an Ijebu combined with Islamic influence, since the same class systems is also richly used in Islamic nations and muslim dominated settings to keep some people in perpetual penury. A condition in which you believe some peoples are poor because they were born poor and destined to be poor, while some others are born to be rich, or destined to be rich; you know a system of "master and slaves". This is always very obvious in your usually shallow discussions which is always centred on material things, possessions, etc. However, I will not generalise because I know other Ijebu peoples who are not as "vain" as you are; and I thought having lived in America for sometime, the system of 'free world' would have robbed-off on you where people can be all they can be regardless of their background.
You kind of have a 'God-complex' that makes you think you can do and undo with your limited material possessions!! This was one of the reason that made me particularly focus on you sometime ago. So, you are working on the 'remaining Christians in your mother's "bloodline", and the newly converted christians in your fathers "bloodline" who have discovered true Salvation in Jesus Christ, and you are shocked!!! Well, there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to them with everything YOU HAVE in this world, physical, material or spiritual!!!; I hope and pray that they've received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. If you've been supporting them financially and you think you will punish them with that, Jesus Christ will let you know that he is Jehovah Jireh--> The Lord Our Provider. Anyhow that you think you can "cut it off", you will be making a mistake because you will be declaring war on the Lord Jesus Himself. Do you know his name? He is Jehovah Sabaoth--The Lord of Host i.e the commander of heavenly armies!!! He is a also a "Consuming Fire" and He is very interested in the life and affairs of all His children who have made him their Lord and Saviour. The Light of the World has come into your 'fathers "bloodline", and darkness cannot comprehend it. I am appealing to you, for your own sake, to leave them alone. By the grace of God, Lord will use them as light into your family, both nuclear and extended. Dont fight a battle you are certain to loose, because you will be fighting the Lord of War himself.

NB: Can you show us any of the 'tear-jerking' inspirations from muhammed?

babs787:
@Havila; After jesus’s departures, the ‘little group of apostles’ formed a ‘jewish sect that remained faithful to the form of worship practiced in the temple’. However, when the observances of converts from paganism were added to them, a ‘special system’ was offered to them as it were; the Council of Jerusalem in 49 AD exempted them from circumcision and jewish observances, ‘many judeo-christians rejected this concession’. This group is quite SEPARATE FROM PAUL. What is more, PAUL AND THE JUDEO-CHRISTIANS were in conflict over the question of pagans who had turned to Christianity, (the incident of Antioch, 49 A.D.) ‘For paul, THE CIRCUMCISION, SABBATH, AND FORM OF WORSHIP PRACTISED IN THE TEMPLE WERE HENCEFORTH OLD FASHIONED, EVEN FOR THE JEWS.

For those judeo-christians who remained ‘loyal jews, paul was a traitor: judeo-christian documents call him an ‘enemy’ accuse him of ‘tactical double-dealing’ …until 70A.D., Judeo-christianity represents the majority of the church and paul remains an isolated case. The head of the community at that time was james, a relation of jesus(. With him were peter (at the beginning) and john. James may be considered to represent the judeo-christian camp, which deliberately clung to Judaism as opposed to Pauline Christianity. Jesus family has a very important place in the judeo-christian church of Jerusalem. James successor was simeon, son of cleopas, a cousin of jesus

@ Dear 'Toronto' Professor babs787,
Did I not tell you before that you CANNOT surpass your previously known level of intellectual incompetence and absolute ignorance? Yes I did, and you have further shown that I am correct.
When I told you that you need wisdom, intuition and inspiration to read and understand the Bible fully because it is not a book of do's and dont's, you found it difficult to believe because you wisdom and understanding is limited to 'reading or rather cramming' a book in arabic. First, you posted a write-up and then gave no reference; was that because you are not sure of the credibility of the source? So, this is the 'research' you threatened to 'reveal'?
Secondly, had it been that you are wise and intuitive, you would have first read the Epistles in the Bible because all the truth about the above story is in there but even if you do read it, you wont understand!!. But we know that such an independent investigation for truth is not encouraged in your religion. So I am not surprised that you copied and pasted an unknown source as usual.
To help you, I will briefly give you the correct facts and refer you to the relevant chapters in the Bible for reference.
There were actually three (3) parties to the story you posted above, not just your so-called 'Judeo-Christians' (nothing like that) and 'Pauline Christians.' They included:
(1) The newly converted Jewish Christians in Jerusalem (led by Peter, James, John)
(2) The Judaizers (Judaism practitioners) i.e Jews who opposed the early Christians and tried to impose it upon the them to still obey the Mosaic Laws
(3) The Jewish and Gentile Christians in Antioch led by Paul, Barnabas (both Jews) and Titus (a Gentile Christian)

In Galatians Chapter 2 and 1 Peter and 2nd Peter, you will get the correct story: Paul's divine assignment was to take the Gospel to the Gentiles, and he consulted with the Pillars of the early Christian church at that time i.e Peter, James, and John, who all acknoledged Paul's teachings: (1) to be genuine; (2) to be the same gospel they preached; (3) and they sanctioned or supported his taking the gosples to the gentiles. (Ref Galatian 2 vs1-10, 1 Peter chapter 1-2). The Judaizers were however a powerful sect who were commited to the Mosaic Laws, and they infiltrated the early church and tried to impose the Mosaic Laws on the new Christians. However, Paul was the first to oppose their attempt; because for Christians to still be observing the practice of the laws, will defeat the purpose of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ----> which is that grace, salvation and righteousness is through faith in Jesus Christ who's sacrifice has made Christians free from the bondage of the Mosaic Laws!!!

However, a disagreement between Paul and Peter was recorded in Galatian 2 vs11-21 over Peter's fear for the Judaizers. Peter, because he was afriad of the Judaizers, initially separated himself from the Gentile Christians when he and James came to meet the Gentile Christians in Antioch/Greece; and by his action seems to support the observance of some Jewish laws by the Gentile Christians (This is what you and your equally ignorant sources refer to as Judeo-Christianity). This was out of fear and politics of the Judaizers and not out of conviction, because they all knew and agreed that the sacrife of Jesus has removed the bondage of the mosaic law for christians (Ref; Gal 2 vs 14-15, 1 Peter chapter 1, etc). But Paul openly rebuked Peter and James for this act (Gal 2 vs 11-13); however, Peter and James later observed correctly and agreed with Paul because1) they offered him helping hand; (2) recognised the Apostleship of Titus (a Gentile Christian helping Paul) without the need to circumcise him; (3) and they all agreed that there is One Lord, One Spirit, One Body of Christ called Christians with Jesus as the Head of the church. (Read 1st & 2nd epistles of Peter, James chapter 1-end, Ephesians chapters 2-4); (4) additionally that saving faith is through belief in sacrifice of Jesus Christ and not by works of circumcision, sabath, passover,etc and other jewish law celebrations or mosaic laws which the judaizers were trying to impose upon the christians. In fact, the entire epistle of James in the bible is directed at the early Jewish Christians heavily infuenced by the Judaizers and Judaism aiming to give further clarity fo the doctrine of Christianity and the removal of obligation from the law through faith in Jesus, and he taught synergistically with the teachings of Paul on salvation, saving faith that produces works, etc

Now, babs707, do you see why they say half education is dangerous!! What you have is half or even maybe quarter education and you based your knowledge on that; now you are looking like an illiterate because you refused to get full education by seeking to get your own understanding of the truth. I have given you specific verses and chapters from write-ups by Peter, James and Paul on this issue, so endeavour to read and get understanding, and dont rely on an internet page written by somebody like yourself. Maybe you will not read it, but others probably will and get to know the truth. There is nothing like "Judeo-Christianity" or "Pauline Christianity"; there is just ONE body of Christ called Christians. The term judeo-christianity is just used in literature figuratively to indicate that Christianity has it's root in Judaism. I am not sure you will understand this my response as it might too complex for you, but hopefully it will stimulate you to seek better understanding.

@All,
You are seriously under-estimating the cunniness of IBB by rejoicing that he 'withdrew' from the race fo Gusau. This is a dangerous man who never does anything for nothing. I am sure that by saying he withdrew for Yar-adua and Gusau, IBB is indirectly telling us that one of them is going to be the next president; in addition, he probably has secured assurances from both of them that he would not be bothered, probed, EFCC'ed, ICPC'ed, etcUnfortunately, that is a mistake on his part!!

@Akolawole,
Thanks for that quotation from Pastor Adeboye. Now answer thse questions:

(1) Did Pastor Adeboye say that the born-again sisters who do not cover their head are in Sin?

(2) Did he say they will not make heaven because they refuse to cover their head?

(3) Did he say the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is of no effect to the sisters who do not cover their head

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying Pastor Adeboye is wrong, I totally understand what he meant. Whether a born-again sister covers her hair or not has nothing to do with her salvation. It is a moral issue which depends on her conviction.

olabowale:
@Dayokanu:
(1) KKK use the Bible to do their deeds> If that is not christianity, then I do not need the Bible or Christianity.
(2) Please know that the Bible was used to fortress te trade of man known as Slave trade. Whites still use the Bible to discriminate, even today in America.
(3) In the Bible, Ichmael who was a child was discriminated against and sent away with his young mother into a desert and was even called wild! This was the first son of a prophet who God Himself called friend!

@Havila: Mutamushiki is not in the Qur'an. It is a term coined using the original word Mushrik, which is in the Qur'an in all its form to describe a later group like John Esposito and others who hold scholarships in Islamic theory but never practice and always wanting to bring Islam down from the honored place that God the Almighty Allah has placed it. You know that they will never suceed. You Havila, do not have any qualification to be called a Mutamushrik. Plainly you are a Kufar and Mushrik, for now. You book of life is not complete until death overtakes you, so there is hope for everyone alive.

@ haji Olabowale,
Thanks for calling me Mushrik or Kufar. Whatever!! What you, Olabowale, and your fellows call me islamically is aboslutely of no consequence or effect like you guys. I am What and Who the Lords God Jesus Christ says I am. I am His child, called by His name and sealed by His Spirit "For ye are all the Children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." (Gal 3vs26). Therefore, I tell you that "From henceforth, Let no man trouble me, because I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus." Galatians 6 vs 17. You see, there is always an appropriate word in the book of life for accusers of the brethren and his tools.
Now to your 'opinion' above. In another thread, I saw you responding to mrpataki that the dirty behaviour of the northerners is because of the cultural behaviour or beliefs and has nothing to do with their being muslims. But, here you are now trying to do the same, in supporting the culture of racism or the ignoble slave trades carried out by some white people as being because of Christianity. It is simply because you lack understanding of christianity and/or you are delibrately being mischievious. Such inconsistencies reveal shallow intuition.
KKK, Slavery, Rasicm etc have nothing to do with Christianity; those who used the Bible to support their actions are not Christians but simply low-life racists and politicians who were using christianity as an "elitist tool" in those days. To support this assertion, listen to what the Lord told us in Gal 3:
"For as many as have been baptized into (Jesus) Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus."
Jesus again said in Matthew 8:11 that: "And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the Kingdom of Heaven."
So, having seen and read this, in your own understanding, do you still think any racists or slave trader have any justification to use the bible or Christianity to support their belief? No! That was simply elitist and political rather than scriptural. Such peoples were not and are not Christians. Period!!

Now to Ishmael: Ishmael was the child of the flesh or "arrangee" between Abraham, Sarah and the 'slavewoman' Hagar at a period when Abraham and Sarah doubted the coming of the Child of Promise called Isaac. The bondwoman Hagar delivered Ishmael into bondage and his seeds or descendants are also gendered into bondage unless they reverse the curse of Ishmael's bondage by "putting on (Jesus) Christ" as explained above. Just as Ishmael was 'troubling' Isaac in Genesis 21 vs 9-21 because he saw his hope of inheritance shattered before he and his mother were sent into the desert; Muhammed, being a descendant of Ishmael, is fulfilling his destiny of bondage through Islam, as a rebellion agaisnt the descendants of the child of promise and the God of Abraham. So, what Ahmadinajad of Iran, Assad of Syria, Assan Nasralla of Hizbollah, Sultan of Sokoto, Imam Bah of Senegal, Uthman dan Fodio, Sheik Gumi, Ayatollah Khomeini, Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani, etc either did or are all doing is to fulfil or fulfilling their destiny of bondage through Islam and to seek to destroy the descendants of the child of promise but their falilure as been foretold in the scriptures. Read Jeremaih 31, 33, Ezekiel 37-38, etc for confirmation. For the rest of God's proclamation on Ishmael, read Genesis 17-23 and you will SEE and understand what is happening in the Middle East.

This is the truth as foretold in the scriptures with no political-correctness; this is why we will continue to talk about Jesus Christ so that the "curse of bondage of Ishmael" being passed down as "Islam" can be removed by those who choose to accept Him as their Lord and Saviour. The Arab Christians have seen this and are rapidly shaking off the curse by accepting Jesus Christ in increasing numbers, what about you guys who are not even direct descendants of Ishmael but choose to take upon yourself the affliction of Ishmael called Islam?
Peace!!

babs707,
You are a total waste of space and intellect. Dont be offende! it is just my observation and opinion on your various posts and I am sure a lot of people have noticed that too. You post these long but empty posts and makes one to wonder how old you are, seriously.
Can you please tell us the difference between Judeo-Christianity and Christianity? Just prove that taking you up is not a waste of time.

@Akolawole,
I wonder why you are been delibrately dyslexic to the responses including the explanations you've been given. Or is it poor understanding? Has anybody told you old-testament is not revealing or relevant, before you start calling some people "anti-old testament" guys? The fact that people say, simplistically, that we are in the dispensation of grace and not of law does not mean OT is not relevant. Various responses have been given in response to your question from their own understanding, and you should respect that even if you dont agree. I have not seen any response that warrants name calling here. You've been told the purpose of the law of OT is to reveal christ or lead to christ; various promises or prophesies in OT including Psalms revealed the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ. I dont know of any responses that say specifically that OT is no longer relevant!
You know, self-righteousness makes you judge others based on your own limited or confounded understanding; and it is one of the easiest ways' to incur the wrath of God, simply because it makes you proud.
You are not showing much wisdom in your posts, whether you are a Christian or muslim.

TayoD:
For those who have attended the hajj, do they now have the assurance that their sins have been forgiven? On what basis and what premise do they expect their sins to be forgiven? Mercy can never be dispensed by God without justice. How will God's justice to punish sin be met if He just arbitrarily offers you mercy? Can someone provide the ansers for these? I'm sure many may not have given it a thought.

belloti:
Transfer this to your christian thread TayoD. It doesnt work the same with Islam

@TayoD,
Very brilliant insight and question. Your question is because of your understanding of the nature and ways of the living God. But the response you got from 'mallam Belloti' further attest to the fact that either the 'mummin' dont really know the ways of God or that allah is simply an idol who needs "works of 'appeasement" in the kabbah, or probably both. Now you see again that we do not worship the same God.

NB: Don't anybody waste their time in telling me this is an islamic topic or muslim thread or any rubbish about 'christian thread.' Any topic on this Nairaland is open to all. You cant hide under that here or in this day and age. If you are afraid of comments and questions, then stop using the net, or open another website, etc.

1st @TayoD
Brother, so you too have noticed the 'elementary-school' babblings of this 'mummin' called Babs787. At times, I feel like ignoring his write-ups but I thought: "How shall they believe unless they hear; how can they hear unless we preach/teach; how can we teach/preach unless we post; and how can we post unless we reply." Sound familiar? 

Now@babs787"

babs787:
@havila,
u said there is nothing like Pauline Christianity? and that Christianity is one. I thought that u know about Christianity but alas u know nothing.
so u don't know that there are Judeo-Christianity and Pauline christianity in which they differ on cruxificxion, circumcision, sonship, trinity etc

kai!!, now you see why I told your brother Oyebanji07 above that I am not looking forward to your 'confusions' on Apostle Paul which you've 'threatened' to post . I told him that you cannot surpass your known ignorance, and you've finally confirmed it. So, where do you want to teach us from? which of the passages from the 'corruption' called Quran will you use to support your claims? Dont forget the "Satanic Verses"
What is Judeo-Christianity and Pauline Christianity? You see, Judeo-Christianity is the same thing as Havila's Christianity , which is the Christianity that Apostle Paul taught us about, based on the ministry, life, sacrifice and glorification of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.
Judaism is Judaism. The one and only Christianity is the doctrine of Grace and mercies of God through faith in Jesus Christ, which has given us divine liberty from the legalism of Judaism. Judaism is about the Mosaic Laws which erroneously implied to achieve salvation through obeying the laws; just like Islam also erroneously seeks to achieve salvation through 'sharia', 'works' of self-righteousness, 'sunnah' (living like Muhammed), etc. But the purpose of the laws of Judaism, my friend, is to lead you to Jesus Christ, the only source of true salvation, i.e Christianity. We have variously given supporting references from the Judasim Torah and the Gospels; just read some of my earlier posts on this topic.
Look at this simple illustration, it will help your understanding:

    JUDAISM & Legalism----->Mosaic Law----->Jesus Christ the Messiah----->CHRISTIANITY & Salvation.

The terminology or phrase of "Judeo-Christianity" is simply used to indicate that Christianity has it's root in Judaism as explained or drawn above.
Babs787, quit wallowing in abject ignorance and seek true wisdom. True Wisdom is NOT in Islam, the quran nor at the local masjid, please don't be offended. It is a gift from God!!. He gives it liberally to all those who ask for it ONLY with faith. The big question now is: FAITH in who?
That's your assignment; , bro!!

olabowale:
@Havila:
(1) If you think that you have done your folks who left Islam any favor, you are completely wrong.
(2) On December 20, CNN will present a program titled, After Jesus, the First Christians. The trailler indicates alot of violence. You need to watch it or at least delegate Davidylan. In one of your early entries, you said that the dead sea scroll explained away the authenticity of the verbatim, (Word for word) of the Bible. In a program that Dr. Reverend James Kennedy, of The Coral Ridge Hour (www.crm.tv), presented to discredit the Davinci code, it was declared that the dead sea scroll has nothing to do with christianity. Now I will like to see you get out of this one.

@Olabowale and rest of 'jammat',
I thought your period of absence was to do some more research at the local masjid, which should give you better insight into the obvious danger in which you've decided to keep you and your family; but alas, you are still the same ol'ignorant chap! How I wish muhammed could get a message back to you folks from his deep pit of hell, about the falsehood he has sold to you. However, since satan has finished using him, but still needs some more neighbours in hell, he will prevent Muhammed from sending message to you guys. But we will continue to tell the truth as we've been commanded by Lord Jesus and taught by the apostles because of our love for your salvation; even though you are all inside an obvious "rebellion" against the true God called "Islam."
The reason a lot of you guys always argue ignorantly is because the deepest research you do personally is sitting down and listening, either in front of television (CNN) or listen to the mullahs at the local masjid . You arguements in such cases are always shallow, and when we tell you analytical issues obtained from your quran or the Bible, you scream it is not true, because you simplydo not know!!!. What do you know about the dead sea scrolls, apart from what you heard on the CNN? Absolutely nothing!! You see, the dead sea scrolls have everything to do with christianity and also have absolutely nothing to do with Christianity.!! Confused?? Relax, let me explain.
The dead sea scrolls were written by some Assenine Jews who were a deeply dedicated monks of Judaism in a little town called QUMRAN (not quran!! note) just outside Jerusalem. They separated from the mainstream Judaism synagogues of Jerusalem and decided to live a secluded lifestyle outside Jerusalem to medidate, pray etc. They wrote the Scrolls which we now called the Dead Sea Scrolls, because of the "caves" where they were found on the shores of the "dead seas". When the Roman Army came and invaded Jerusalem and killed thousands of Jews including the Assenine monks of Qumran, some of them hid the scrolls in the cave to preserve their teachings and way of life for the future generation. The scrolls were discovered couple of decades ago by some sheperds. The scrolls were discovered to contain same writings in the books of Torah, including Deuteronomy, Leviticus, etc and others showing their way of life and philosophy. The Assinine were known to be such a gentle, truthful sect who rebelled against the corruption of the mainstream Pharisees and Rabbi in the mainstream synagoues of Judaism; in fact it is believed that some of thre teachings of Jesus Christ were influenced by the peaceful teachings of the Assinine Jews of Qumran. This particularly include the beatitudes or teachings of Jesus Christ recorded in the book of Matthew Chapter 5-6 in the Gospel e.g Blessed by the meek,,,,,,blessed be the hungry,,,,,,blessed be the peacemaker,,,etc.
Why did I say it has everything to do with Christianity? Because Christianity has it's root in Judaism and it's legalistic approach as shown by the Mosaic Laws. The Judaistic Legalism or Law simply serves one purpose; this is to convict of guilt of sin and thus lead sinners to Jesus Christ; without the law there is no sin, thus the law convict of sin. But the law cannot save or make righteous; that salvation only comes through faith. Habakuk 2:4 "The Just shall live by faith"(not by law) The Torah contains in various parts books or promise and prophesies of the Coming of Jesus Christ
But Why did I say it has nothing to do with Christianity again? Because the dead sea scrolls contains the laws; Salvation however is not by the laws or works or sunnah, but ONLY by faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ says in John 14:6 that "I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man cometh to the father but by the Son." Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the law i.e He is the highest revelation or the Purpose of the law. That is why Jesus Christ said in Matthew 5:17 that "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Do you now see that it is easy to get out of "this one", because wisdom is a gift of God. When you read and research the scriptures because you want to know God more personally, He will give you wisdom and revelations to defeat the lies of the devil. I think you should now contact the man who did the programe and educate him with what you now know. But you too can conduct your own independent research, ,,,,but that is going to be a hard work, right? Since it is easier to just go and ask the equally ignorant Mullah at your masjid! Talk about the blind leading other blinds straight into the ditch!!

NB: By the way, it was not me who did my family members who left the darkness called Islam any favour; it is God in His infinite mercies. I have absolutely nothing to do with it. In fact my father left Islam before I was born. But I thank God for that, because with my enthusiasim for Jesus Christ through the grace of God, I would have been a danger to the world as a muslim, probably a suicide bomber. But God has a greater purpose for my life than for me to be an instrument in the hand of the devil through Islam. Seek wisdom my friends, and it shall find you!!!

mrpataki:
@ Havila
Where you once a muslim now regarded as a Mushrikun??/

@mrpataki
No!, I was never a muslim; but my father and my the paternal relations were, but they've all converted to Christianity to the glory of God. Additionally, I have personally researched Islam variously, including advanced research materials on Islam from a global leadership training institute in Hawaii, USA. The fact is most muslims don't know Islam because they are not encouraged to; it is sufficient to just learn from the mullahs at the local masjid. Thus it is relatively easy to keep the truth from them; but that is now our responsiblity as believer who love muslims; to research and expose the deception of Islam, and to tell them the truth about the true salvation that comes only by faith, and not through "works" or "sunnah." Unfortunately, there is no politically-correct way to say the truth. Remember: "The Just shall live by faith" (Habakuk 2 vs 4)

@Olabowale,
As somebody said, I dont want to digress from the topic, which is about dressing in today's churches. No I dont know Nurudeen Lawal, he must have finished little earlier than myself.
By the way, there is no way you can understand how I come to explain the biblical passages, neither can you understand it. The fact that it is written in English does not mean all tom, dick and harry can know the "implied" meaning. You do not need to 'think' when reading the quran because it is a book of do's and dont's written by your General/Field Marshall Muhammed for his servants and recruits a.k.a the 'jammat'.
The Bible was not only written under inspiration of holy spirit, in fact to further confound you, the understanding also requires "inspiration"of spirit of the true God which you do not have or know, and He does not even know you and your fellow 'jammat'. But as Children of God, (yes!! children of the mighty God we are) we have understanding of the hidden mysteries of God through His spirit that teach us all things.
No wonder almost everything about Jesus Christ is plagiarised into the quran to give credibility to what is not credible: His virgin birth; his many miracles; his ascension to heaven; His being the Word and Spirit of God, etc; But then the quran "choose" to deny the remaining truth about his divinity; his crusifixion simply to make way for propagating by deception the false ideology called Islam that seeks to portray a false way to salvation through works and sunnah (living like muhammed, talk about living like the devil himself as a route to salvation).
Olabowale, you are correct: I am in the brain of Jesus; in fact, his mind and his thoughts are inside me, as in any Christian who submits his life to Him as Lord and Saviour. We learn to understand by His Spirit who "teaches us all things." This is why you and other 'jammats' are amazed at how we explain the same passages using different references to support a single point. That is called power of consistency of a God who does not change.

Oyebanji07:
@Havila
(1) You always find your own personal interpretation for any quotes in the Bible that goes against your believe by saying this is what is means,that is what it means.

(2) Honestly, for a man with little knowledge could easily understand and interprete what that verse is saying.This verse it self is self explanatory so why confusing yourself Havila?

@Oyebanji07
Now you've further confirmed the assertion that you and couple of your fellow 'jammat' on this forum are very narrow-minded,,,,,,,,you know what is described as 'tunnel reasoning.'
The Bible is not a book of do's and don't like that "heretic story book" which you guys are required to "cram" and they kill goat for you when you finish . The Bible is a book of wisdom containing the thoughts and intents of God. Understanding any part of the Bible will require that you to know (1) who was talking, (2) to whom is the passage directed, (3) what is the context and (4) then you find supporting references. A self-confessed "man with little knowledge" (your own words) definitely will read the passage out of context and assume it is self explanatory because you are using the 'skills' of reading or  "cramming" the quran to explain a biblical passage.
The interpretations of the passages are inspired by the Spirit of God that gives understanding and wisdom; and it requires intuition and cross-referencing; not just reading with a closed mind. It is the hidden mysteries of God that is hidden from the blind. This is why we always try to explain the passages to you and other 'mummin' so you can move away from darkness and let the Light come in.

Oyebanji07:
@Havila
It's very unfortunate u did not open your eyes very well to see whom u've quoted above.Was the post from Oyebanji07 or babs787.Havila seems u are so confused.Open your eyes and see things clearly ok?
However,babs787 is telling you the truth.Why not wait for his posts?
Take care.

Oyebanji07,
Ma bad,,,,,,,but I probably mistook the two of you because you both have letters and numbers in your names, and more likely because the two of you argue or post alike,,,,,in a rather narrow-minded manner. No probs, I am waiting for his posts; but I know it cannot surpass his prior poor understanding, and I know it will be another waste of space and intellect that you boys are known for while wallowing in 'Jesus-phobia' prejudice.

babs787:
good that u came out with the truth that Paul want one of his disciples, and was also against his teaching when he was alive.
u said he enounter jesus, have u forgotten or maybe u didnt go through your bible very well . in your same bible, two contradicting were said about his encouter with jesus, i will post the verse to you soon.
u also accused @Olabowale about having baseless argument on Paul.
soon, u will see my write up on who Paul is.
maybe u don't know that, its Pauline Chrtistianity you christians of nowadays are practising.
i will shed more light on that soon, get your bible ready because i will let u see reasons backing it up with biblical quotations.
till i come your way, you, havila, TayoD, bABYOSIS ETC, BE PREPARED FOR THE TRUTH

@babs787
Why don't you stop behaving like a primary school boy who want's to fight and says "wait let me go and bring by weapons" , c'mon bring out the 'clarifications' you need about Pauline teachings of the Gosple. You cannot present any quotations because you are still blind to the hidden mystery of God. There is nothing, aboslutely nothing, like Pualine Christianity. This is not like Sunni Muslims or Wahabi sect or Shiites etc. Christianity is Christianity simple: It is all about the life, crusifixion, death, resurrection, ascension and glorification of Jesus Christ; whereby we are redeemed from the curse and bondage of sin through the blood of Jesus Christ in the Cross; and justified into righteousness through faith in Jesus. That is why we can boldy say we are the Children of God by adoption through faith in Jesus Christ. For He has not given us the spirit of bondage again to fear, but spirit of adoption whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

We know why Muslims leaders "particularly" dislike Paul and always try to discredit him in your local masjids by teaching you lies!!!, because he CORRECTLY predicted the coming of the "bondage of Islam" in Galatians chapter 4 vs 21-31; this was almost 600-900 years before Islam truly came. He used the allegory of "Ishmael and his seeds" born into bondage through Hagar; in comparism to the child of promise called Isaac. We know that Ishmael is the progenitor of Arabs from among whom comes Muhammed and his ideology called Islam.
Thank God for the Christian Arabs who have broken off the curse of inherited bondage through Ishmael, by accepting Jesus Christ. So come with the biblical passages; and to the glory of God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, we will help you in understanding.

belloti:
I can see Havila is the only reasonable reply i ve got.

Havila, i started with a lot of regards for the christians here. my intention definitely is not to ridicule but to be better informed from the horses mouth. But your reply was basically another exercise in futility.

1. I don't believe jesus ever claimed to be God. And if he does i can't see why anyoner should have believed him knowing fully that God is much bigger than any human imagination
2. You based your arguement on some books that were never credible neither were they even sensible.
4. You finally close your arguement with some unsolicited insult on Prophet Muhammad (SAW or PBUH) and Islam. That was very uncomplimentary especially from someone i have some respect for

@Belloti,
You are just a bundle of contradictions; and this is seriously imparing your ability to accept the truth. You KNOW that my initial response to your 'opinion' is very "reasonable" BUT you choose not to go with it because of your anger at what has been said about Muhammed thereby saying it is "an exercise in futility". Take it or leave it, truth will always be the truth regardless of how you feel about it and there is no other way of declaring te truth.
Whether you, Belloti, believe Jesus is God is immaterial: God the Father said of Lord Jesus the Son, in the taurat/Torah, that "In Zion have I laid a rock of offense, a stumbling block; and those who believe in Him shall be saved." The Divinity of Jesus Christ has been a rock of offense to those who are gendered into bondage as Ishmael from the bondwoman Hagar (Ref: Galatians 4 vs 21-28) which is why the scriptures say in 1st Corinthians 1 vs 18 that: "The preaching of the Cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God."
Why is it that the narrow-minded response from muslims is always that a book is not credible, yet you have no evidence of how it is different from the original? If there is any book that lacks any iota of credibility, it is that bundle of oxymorons and contradictions called the QURAN. A book of plagiarism being used to lead you into hell by denying the only route of salvation. It is absurd because the Quran describes Jesus as the MESSIAH or Al-Mashi in Surah 4:157,171 and 172; It called Jesus Kalimatullah - i.e the Word of God - in Surah 3:45; called Him Ruhun-minhu or Ruhullah - i.e the Very Spirit of God - in Surah 4:171, 58:22; attests to miraculous virgin birth of Jesus in Surah 19:20; attests to the many miracles of Jesus in Surah 3:119, 5:113; attests to it that Jesus ascended into Heaven in Surah 4:158, etc. BUT the Quran "Choose" to Deny the only route of salvation which is His crusifixion and His divinity despite the fact that historical and eye-witness accounts of this exists in Judaism, Christianity but denied by an ideology that came almost 1000 years afterwards. How is the Word of God and the Very Spirit of God different from God??
Dont you suspect something false in this contradictory ideology that Muhammed is trying to sell to you, to lead you into damnation just like himself? Dont you know that even your Quran says the followers of Jesus are Superior in Surah 3:45? Muhammed and Islam are both ANATHEMA (i.e Accursed) because he attempts to get credibility for his ideology called Islam using the life and teachings of Jesus Christ; but choose to deny Jesus His due glory of Sonship, His Sacrifice on the Cross and His Divinity, in other to propagate his own ideology. Muhammed is not different from all the false prophets like Jim Jones, the guy in Waco Texas, Guru Maharaji, Buddah, etc who are all agents of the Anti-Christ with the only purpose of leading ignorant souls into eternal damnation by denying the ONLY route to Salvation.
I am a respecter of the Divine Revelation and divine principles; but not a respecter of persons. Jesus is not just a prophet, He is the Divine Revelation; (I think the oxymoronic quran is the revelation in Islam, right?); He is the Redemption; Christians are therefore released from the enslavement or curse of sin and the resulting divine wrath. This Redemption is effected for those "who believe" through His blood, i.e, by Jesus Christ's atonement secured by His death on the Cross.
I have quoted from the quran to show you the contradictions in it about Jesus; and I have quoted variously from the true scriptures, both the Torah and the New Covenat Gosples for revelation. You can't use your wisdom confounded by a life time of indoctrination in the local masjid to understand this; but God in His infinite love and mercy will open your eyes, not only you but other muslims reading it, so you can be the light into your various families of the true source of Salvation. God bless and give you understanding.

Guys,
The truth is that 'Islam is the greatest self-inflicted travesty of justice.' I said self-inflicted because most muslims submit to what they do not know. Muslims really deserve the pity, love and prayer from us, just like Jesus when he said on the cross "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."
The truth about Islam need to be broadcasted loud and clear with no 'political correctness'

Oyebanji07:
Do you guys read this verses in Matthew at all?

Matthew 5:17-18
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. 5:18 I tell you the truth, 19 until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place.

Guys think about it. Its there in your Bible.

@Oyebanji07,
1) So what is your point? In fact that is the wrong question, the right question is this: What do you understand by, or what do you think Jesus meant by ",,,,,,,,,,,but to fulfill them" (i.e. the Law) (?) I am sure you took it literally, well reading the Bible requires intuition if it is to serve it's purpose of being a guiding light. This is what He was saying:

Now, the Gospel figuratively is "Jesus Christ" and as a proposition it means "good news". What Jesus meant in Matt 5 v17-18 is that the New Testament Gospel is not contradictory to the Old Testament Law; rather 'He' is the ultimate fulfilment of the "spiritual Intention" of the law. What is that 'spirittual intention' of the law?; as I stated in my earlier post, it is clear from the scriptures that the law cannot impute salvation, the purpose of the law is to convict of guilt of sin; and then lead you to Christ for Salvation. Where the Law had degenerated to outward legalism (e.g dont wear trousers, dont cover head, etc), Jesus Christ takes the law beyond mere outward observance or self-piety, to the inner spiritual intention of God, which is Holiness and righteouness. This again emphasise that Salvation is not by works or law but by faith is Christ Jesus. God will give help your understanding.

belloti:
What a reckless computations and malicious interpretation. This is the mischievious mindset i always stress about your postings. Right now i don't really care how you guys feel and please if you can, please hasten in rolling out the break up machineries. i d rather wallow in poverty in the desert than hang out with folks like you.

@Belloti,
It is quite obvious you are used to talking and living like a king among ignorant folks; unfortunately on the www. you come across brilliant and intuitive deep thinkers who are logical in their approach to issues, rationaly and intellectually appraise such issues and direct in delivering their point of view. The is no "reckless computations or "malicious interpretation" of your irrational and mundane sharia justice unless we decide to be as docile as the "authors and defenders" of the sharia law.
Believe me, it would be very very good riddance to very very bad rubbish if the Sharia mongers wallow in poverty in the desert. Who says you are not already doing that: simply read the UNDP Human Development Report for Nigeria on Zamfara State.