₦airaland Forum

We haven't even finished talking about JIHAD and your brothers up north has started killing people again

https://www.nairaland.com/1282705/boko-haram-attack-police-barracks-borno

Later you will say JIHAD is defensive. Clearly, no one provoked BH this time did they?

lanrexlan: Brother,but I used the sira(life of the prophet),we go back in history and see why certain verses were revealed and I have explained why all the verses were revealed,what happened that time,the situation and you are still looking for hadith? Peace brother.

Please quote the Hadith and source.

talk2me006: LOL!

boolean ! boolean!
i have come across many christians explaining this trinity in many funny ways.boolean again!
it is now glaring that your religion is a confused one

let me correct your notion:

God is One

The following verse from the book of Deuteronomy contains an exhortation from Moses (pbuh):

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhad".
It is a Hebrew quotation which means: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord"
[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4]
let me ask u
now proffada! let me ask u, is there any confusion in the above verse.[The Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4].

tell me where did u see ur trinity.mr man think very well dont be brainwashed.



see this also from quran:
The Most Concise Definition of God

"Say: He is Allah,

The One and Only.

"Allah, the Eternal, Absolute.

"He begets not, nor is He begotten.

And there is none like unto Him."

[Al-Qur’an 112:1-4].


PEACE...........

I don't think Mohammed read 2 sentences of the New Testament. As a result, I can't bow to his denial of the deity of Jesus Christ. That been said, it changes nothing. No one is forcing you to believe it

lanrexlan: ,Brother where's your proof that said prophet muhammed(pbuh)break the peace treaty? The truth is that, many people even some
muslims inclusive have the misconceptions
that any war fought by muslims whether
good or bad is called 'Jihad'.Brother,so any war fought by muslims is JIHAD?If you
translate 'Jihad' into Arabic Language is called
'Harabun Muqaddasa',but surprisingly no
where does this word 'Harabun Muqaddasa'
exist in the Qur'an or Authentic Hadith.
Meanwhile,'Jihad' is derived from the Arabic
word 'Jahdah' which means 'to strive &
struggle'.In fact in the full context,Jihad
basically means to strive & struggle against
one's own evil inclination.It basically means
to strive & struggle to make society better. It
basically means to strive & struggle against
oppression. It also means to strive & struggle
in the battle front in self defence.I'm aware
one of the forms of Jihad is Qital which is
fighting in the way of Almighty GOD in the
battle front,which even @ that you can only
fight those who fought you (that is the way
of GOD) strictly in the battle field against
oppression & aggression.But generally
speaking 'Jihad' does not basically mean
'Holy War' or killing innocent lives as most
people think.Brother talktome has said it all,it's like a waste of time arguing with you because you won't accept the truth...Peace brother.Muhammed(pbuh)wasn't the author of the quran,and nothing was my own interpretation.It's the interpretation of islamic scholars.

If I show you the PROOF from your Hadith - what then? Are you going to accept it?

lanrexlan: Answer to allegation that Islam promotes
violence, bloodshed and brutality since the
Qur'an says that Muslims should kill the
kuffar where ever they find them. Loooolz..
anyway,this refutes the allegation.
A few selected verses from the Qur'an are
often misquoted to perpetuate the myth that
Islam promotes violence, and exhorts its
followers to kill those outside the pale of
Islam.The following verse from Surah
Taubah is very often quoted by critics of
Islam as you did,to show that Islam
promotes violence, bloodshed and brutality:
"Kill the mushriqeen (pagans, polytheists,
kuffar) where ever you find them."
[Al-Qur'an 9:5] but here is the context of
verse is during battlefield
Critics of Islam actually quote this verse out
of context. In order to understand the
context, you need to read from verse 1 of
this surah. It says that there was a peace
treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriqs
(pagans) of Makkah.This treaty was violated
by the Mushriqs of Makkah.A period of four
months was given to the Mushriqs of Makkah
to make amends.Otherwise war would be
declared against them. Verse 5 of Surah
Taubah says:
"But when the forbidden months are past,
then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye
find them, and seize them, beleaguer them,
and lie in wait for them in every stratagem
(of war); but if they repent, and establish
regular prayers and practise regular charity,
then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-
forgiving, Most merciful."
[Al-Qur'an 9:5]
This verse is quoted during a battle, for
example,the war between America and
Vietnam.We know that America was once at
war with Vietnam.Suppose the President of
America or the General of the American Army
told the American soldiers during the war:
"Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill
them".Today if I say that the American
President said,"Wherever you find
Vietnamese, kill them" without giving the
context,I will make him sound like a butcher.
But if I quote him in context, that he said it
during a war, it will sound very logical,as he
was trying to boost the morale of the
American soldiers during the war. Similarly
Allah told prophet Muhammad (pbuh)in Verse
9:5 to boost morale of Muslims during battle.
The Qur'an says, "Kill the Mushriqs where
ever you find them", during a battle to boost
the morale of the Muslim soldiers.What the
Qur'an is telling Muslim soldiers is, don't be
afraid during battle; wherever you find the
enemies kill them.
But when any sensible person reads the full
context he will realise that Surah Taubah
chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the
allegation that Islam promotes violence,
brutality and bloodshed. It says:
"If one amongst the pagans ask thee for
asylum,grant it to him, so that he may hear
the word of Allah; and then escort him to
where he can be secure that is because they
are men without knowledge."
[Al-Qur'an 9:6]
The Qur'an not only says that a Mushriq
seeking asylum during the battle should be
granted refuge, but also that he should be
escorted to a secure place. In the present
international scenario, even a kind, peace-
loving army General, during a battle, may let
the enemy soldiers go free, if they want
peace. But which army General will ever tell
his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want
peace during a battle, don't just let them go
free, but also escort them to a place of
security?
This is exactly what Allah (swt) says in the
Glorious Qur'an to promote peace in the
world.
Peace brother.

You haven't used ONE Hadith to backup anyone of those verses. So far, you have given then your personal interpretation.

vedaxcool: Thank God you hold the old testament (The Bible) to be valid, then the following statement are just as true the statement in bold shows teh racial psyche of the writer of the bible;

So, how many mosques have Christians blown up in the South or in the East. How many muslim throats have Christians in the East slit?

I would have explained those verses to you but I won't bother.

olempe: And how many of them did Jesus Kill? Compared to the numbers ur prophet killed?

Ash him again oh!

Proffdada: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_algebra

It appears it's only elementary math he stopped at

lanrexlan: Brother alexis,I promised to give you the explanations about all what you made about JIHAD.
The first one-''Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, [even if they are] of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." [Quran 9:29]
Some people have falsely concluded from verse 9:29, that Muslims are commanded to attack all non-Muslims until they pay money.In fact,such an interpretation is completely false and contradicts authentic Islamic teachings.Commenting on this verse,Shaykh Jalal Abualrub writes: These Ayat (Quranic verses) stress the necessity of fighting against the People of the Scripture, but under what conditions? We previously established the fact that the Islamic State is not permitted to attack non-Muslims who are not hostile to Islam, who do not oppress Muslims, or try to convert Muslims by force from their religion, or expel them from their lands, or wage war against them, or prepare for attacks against them. If any of these offenses occurs, however, Muslims are permitted to defend themselves and protect their religion. Muslims are not permitted to attack non-Muslims who signed peace pacts with them, or non-Muslims who live under the protection of the Islamic State. (Abualrub, Holy Wars, Crusades, Jihad) Shaykh Sayyid Sabiq writes about the Historical context of verse: As for fighting the Jews (People of the Scripture), they had conducted a peace pact with the Messenger after he migrated to Madinah. Soon afterwards, they betrayed the peace pact and joined forces with the pagans and the hypocrites against Muslims. They also fought against Muslims during the Battle of A`hzab , then Allah revealed… [and he cites verse 9:29] (Sayyid Sabiq, Fiqhu as-Sunnah, Vol. 3, p. 80) In light of the historical context of this verse, it becomes very clear that the verse was revealed in connection with agression initiated against Muslims. As Dr. Jamal Badawi very accurately concludes with regard to verse 9:29 and similar verses: All of these verses, without exception, if studied carefully, address aggression and oppression committed against Muslims at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), whether by idolatrous Arabs, some of the Jewish tribes in Madinah, or by some Christians,hope this clarifies your first claim...Peace.

Listen, it is not how you and I interpret it that matters. IT IS HOW MOHAMMED INTERPRETED IT THAT MATTERS. And that is the problem with Islam. The author of the Quran should have made it CLEAR ON THE INTERPRETATION. You can read that and don't have the urge to kill or attack anyone. Boko Haram reads it and kills innocent people mainly Christians.

So let me ask - was Osama protecting himself when he attacked America and killed over 3000 people on 9/11. America didn't do anything to him. America wasn't in Afghanistan then. So, Osama and his brothers weren't been oppressed.

Who is attacking muslims in Northern Nigeria. Even before Boko Haram and Ansaru - do you know the atrocities some muslims committed in the North? Who attacked them? There is a thread here on NL where an innocent woman (a teacher) was murdered and killed in Gombe state because she touched the Quran when students where cheating and hiding the cheat papers in the Quran. Her crime - she was an infidel that touch the Quran.

So, history is not on your side. All the wars that Mohammed fought were not defensive my friend. You are a muslim, you should know that. When Iraq and Iran fought their war - who was defending who? Two muslim nations killed each other and so many lives were lost. Muslims don't see that yet you cry foul and say infidels are occupying your land..

I am sure you are a Nigerian, who is attacking your land. You are not an Arab. The problem is Islam influences ones culture. How can an African like you complain that muslim lands are been invaded. You are a Nigerian, did America invade Nigeria?

Why must a non-muslim sign peace pact with a muslim to leave in peace with them? The Meccans and Mohammed signed peace pact but Mohammed broke it evening during the holy month of Ramadan.

Anyways - to Surah 9:29 ===> We need to consult the Hadith to know the TRUE INTERPRETATION of that verse and not what you are claiming it is or should be.

After all this - you will say you have provided PROOF

talk2me006: i know that already.your mind has already block for truth.who care!
[/b]

[b]Block for Truth? Omo - are you speaking English? Did you mean to say "Block to the truth"?

What truth - THAT ISLAM CONTRADICTS ITSELF. Now we all know that is TRUE

talk2me006: how ?
show me how it contradict quran?

You haven't posted one concrete contribution to this topic - when you do, ask for a response. Until then - follow your muslim brothers

Mintayo: please where is the truth? That the quran contradicts itself?
That the jews and christains threw away their book-a book given to them by allah(which they still have today-Bible),yet allah's prophet curse them?he also said you shld kill them if they don't accept him...AND YOU CALL THAT THE TRUTH?
LET ME TELL YOU THE TRUTH-THE TRUTH IS THAT "YOU KNOW THE TRUTH BUT YOU DECIDED TO FOLLOW LIES''.
ANOTHER TRUTH- JESUS LOVES YOU NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY AGAINST HIM.

Shalom dear.

For him to debate on new evidence, he has resulted to character attacks. His Allah said all revelations that come from Him are true both to Jews, Christians and muslims. He will not see that but will go on with his "Your Bible is Corrupt" mantra.

He turned around and said not all portions of the "Corrupted Bible" are corrupt. How does he know the one that is not corrupt? I don't understand how people can contradict themselves and put down their common sense whenever it comes to Islam

lanrexlan: One thing I noticed about alexis is that he loves starring at the obvious truth,no wonder your christian brother even condemn you for that(remember the first time I debated concerning prophet saleh(pbuh)'s miracle).you failed to admit it to be a miracle....Guidance comes from only ALLAH....Peace brother.

Hehehehehehe - . You and your muslim folks keep twisting FACTS. I won't bother to address such here mate. It's only when people can't debate openly that they start attacking other characters

Whenever you bring forth a debate - I challenge you with the same Quran you use proving other-wise. But somehow you want me to accept everything you say .

Christian brother is entitled to his opinion - this is a public forum. I get so many likes as well so I don't bother with the people opinions.

tintingz

Until you show us PROOF on your claim that Mary was 9 when she married Joseph. Abeg - HUSH!

lanrexlan: Thank you brother tintingz for your support,after all the point I have provided it's still baffles some people don't understand.Not your fault their faults,guidance comes only from ALLAH.No matter how harder I try to explain to you,you won't understand because ALLAH's guidance hasn't come.Ours is to deliever the message,only ALLAH guide...ALLIAMUADULILAH I'm a muslim.......Peace brother.

It's not a matter of guidance or understanding. It's a matter of scholarship proof and evidence. Your sources are not AUTHORITATIVE AND CONCLUSIVE.

@kenyattaMoore:
Buy condoms and sleep with him ,end of story!

One of the dumbest advice a woman can give another woman. Why not advise her to go a prostitute as well. You think condoms are 100% proof against sexual transmitted diseases?

lanrexlan: Thank you brother alexis,I will insha allahu still answer your question about JIHAD,but take the answer to your question about muslims in the west taking non-muslims as friends,consider the following quranic verses.

In surah Al-IMRAN 3;69-'a party of the people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians) wish to lead you astray.But they shall not lead anyone astray except themselves and they perceive not'.

In surah Al-IMRAN 3;72-''And a party of the people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians)say;believe in the morning in that which the muslims(believers),and reject it at the end of the day,so that they may turn back''.

In surah Al-IMRAN 3;98-99-''say;O people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians)! Why do reject the AYAT OF ALLAH(proofs,revelations)while ALLAH is witness to what you do?'' Say;O people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians)! Why do you stop those who have believed from the path of ALLAH,seeking to make it seem crooked,while you(yourselves) are witnesses(to muhammed(pbuh)being a messenger of ALLAH and that only ALLAHh deserved to be worship)? And ALLAH is not unaware of what you do''.

Surah Al-IMRAN 3;100-''O you who believe(muslims)! If you obey a group of those who were given the scriptures(Jews and Christians),they would indeed render you disbelievers after you have believed!

Surah Al-IMRAN 3;118-119-''O you who believe(muslims)! Take not as your bitanah(advisors,protectors,helpers,friends)those outside your religion(pagans,jews,christians and hypocrites)since they Will not fail to do their best to corrupt you.They desire to harm you severely.Hatred has already appeared from their mouths,but what their hearts conceal is far worse.Indeed we have made plain to you the AYAT(proofs,verses,evidences)if you understand''.
119)Lo! You are the ones who love them but they love you not,and you believe in all the scriptures(zaboor,torah,injeel and quran),while they disbelieve in your book(quran).And when they meet you,they say we believe.But when they are alone,they bite the tips of their fingers at you in rage.Say;perish in your rage.Certainly,ALLAH knows what is in the breasts(all the secrets)''.

Surah Al-mumtahanah 60;1-2-''O you who believe(muslims) take not my enemies and your enemies(i.e. Polytheists and disbelievers)as friends,showing affection towards them while they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth(the Quran and muhammed(pbuh))and yourselves because you believed in ALLAH,your lord.If you have come forth to strive in my cause and to seek my good pleasure,(then take not these people as friends).You show friendship to them in secret while I am all aware of what you conceal and reveal.And whosoever of you(muslims) does that,then he has gone astray from the straight path''.

2)Should they gain upper hand over you,they would behave to you as enemies and stretch forth their hands and their tongues against you with evil and desire that you should disbelieve''.

Surah Al-mumtahanah 60;8-9-''ALLAH doesn't forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor droves you out of your homes.Verily,ALLAH loves those who deal with equity''
9)It's only as regards those who fought against you on account of your religion and have driven you out of your homes and helped to drive out that ALLAH forbids you to befriend them.And whosoever will befriend them,then such are the zalimun(wrongdoers)''.
So Brother,ALLAH is telling muslims that it's better to take muslims as friends because non-muslims will do their the best to corrupt our faith.And that's the reason some muslims are leaving islam for other religions,they are absorbed with the friendship with non-muslims,hope that clarifies that....Peace brother.

Thanks mate - So, the Surahs I quoted, are they not instructions from Allah. Which of the Surahs are we to obey then? The ones you posted or the ones I posted. All Surahs we posted are in the Quran. Are they not?

lanrexlan: So, if what you posted is right in Surah 2 & 5, is Allah lying in Surah 10 & 46?. Can God lie? Thank you brother for your time,if you read all the verses I quoted you should notice the word 'a party',there was a group of the people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians) that adhere strictly to the injeel and torah before prophet muhammed(pbuh)came.As ALLAH said in the glorious Quran in surah Al-IMRAN 3;75-''Among the people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians) is he who if entrusted with a great amount of wealth,he will readily pay it back to you''.So it means not all the people of the book are corrupted.Consider this verse too
Surah Al-hadid 57;27-''Then we sent after then our messengers and we sent jesus(pbuh) the son of mary and gave him the injeel.And we ordained in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy.But the monasticism which they invented for themselves,We didn't prescribe for them,but they sought it to please ALLAH therewith but that they didn't observe it with the right observance.So we gave [b/]THOSE[b/] among them who believed,their due reward but [b/]MANY[b/] are rebellious and disobedient to ALLAH''.
So you should understand that some people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians) followed strictly the injeel before muhammed(pbuh).When prophet muhammed(pbuh)migrated to medina,he met Jews and Christians who recited the injeel,but when muhammed(pbuh)read to them some verses of the quran they said;Truly,this is the word of ALLAH.That's what ALLAH meant by saying quran is the confirmation of the scriptures before it,and they later accepted muhammed(pbuh)as a messenger of ALLAH.The same with Abdullah bin Salam(RA),he was a christian and accepted islam when he realised the quran confirms the word of GOD with them.But the injeel has been corrupted as I proved.so as we muslims find somethings in today's bible(not injeel) that's in line with the confirmation of the scriptures(The Quran),then we accept it as GOD's word,if it contradicts we decline and if neither contradicts nor in line,then we leave it(won't accept or reject)I hope that answers your questions....Peace brother.

Mate - you are contradicting yourself. Some of the things you are explaining to me is NOT IN THE QURAN. You are guilty of going around in circles. Look at the over-view

1. You said - the present Bible is corrupt
2. I said - if it is corrupt, there should be an uncorrupted one since Allah gave it to Jesus
3. You said - the original one is lost
4. I said - if it is lost then you can't claim the one we have is corrupt because you have no evidence
5. You said - The Jews & Christians threw away the original Bible that is why it is LOST.
6. I said - Allah confirmed that all revelations are from him and no muslim should dispute it and he said muslims should get along with Christians because both revelations i.e. Injeel and Quran are authentic and from the same source

NOW = Now, you are turning around and saying - NOT ALL PORTIONS OF THE CURRENT BIBLE WE HAVE IS CORRUPT. Did Allah say that? I thought you said the original was lost and the present one is CORRUPTED. Now you are saying not all parts of the CURRENT CORRUPT BIBLE IS CORRUPT. You went further to say:

So as we muslims find somethings in today's bible(not injeel) that's in line with the confirmation of the scriptures(The Quran),then we accept it as GOD's word,if it contradicts we decline and if neither contradicts nor in line,then we leave it(won't accept or reject)

You have turned 180 degrees around now mate. You are saying that parts of the corrupted bible Christians have contains some truth because it concurs with the Quran . If you say that - THEN IT MEANS PART OF THE QURAN IS CORRUPTED TOO. How can the Quran and a "CORRUPTED BIBLE HAVE ANYTHING IN COMMON". You are shooting yourself in the foot here.

You are using double standards - I see it all the time with muslims apologists. You use one standard to attack the Christian faith and another standard to protect Islam. You claim the entire Bible is corrupt and the ONLY original version is lost because Jews and Christians threw them away. Yet the Quran is authentic but the Quran endorses parts of the CORRUPT BIBLE.

First you said, the Jews and Christians threw away the LOST Bible now you are saying they are not all corrupted

IT APPEARS YOU ARE SPEAKING FOR THE QURAN. This is the instruction/commandment and word from Allah:

Surah 29:46 === And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

So, after the Injeel was lost in Surah 2 & 5. Allah has instructed every muslim NOT TO DISPUTE THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE & TO HONOR THE REVELATIONS MUSLIMS AND CHRISTIANS HAVE.

If you do other-wise, you are dis-obeying Allah - are you not?. I look forward to hearing from you - God bless

talk2me006: how and when did you answer the question. elaborate more. you liar

Your only contribution so far is follow follow . I have asked Seun to talk to him. It is not the first time your muslim moderator gets out of hand. Read your rules and regulation section - other muslims complain about him. Sometimes, his position gets to his head.

lanrexlan

It appears you didn't explain everything mate but I thank you for the effort, please read the piece below. I quoted everything from the Quran and Hadith and didn't go outside them

PEACE, VIOLENCE, AND ABROGATION

Muslims in the West are quick to point to passages such as Qur’an 109:6 (“You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion”) and 2:256 (“There is no compulsion in religion”) as evidence that Islam is a religion of peace. When confronted with harsher passages such as 9:5 (“Slay the idolaters wherever you find them”) and 9:29 (“Fight those who believe not in Allah”), Westernized Muslims interpret these verses in light of the more peaceful teachings of the Qur’an, typically saying something like: “Well, the Qur’an can’t be commanding us to kill unbelievers, since it says that there’s no compulsion in religion.”

Hence, Westernized Muslims pick the verses of the Qur’an they find most attractive, and they use these verses to sanitize the rest of the Qur’an. But is this the correct way to interpret the Qur’an? Unfortunately, the answer is no. The Qur’an presents its own method of interpretation—the Doctrine of Abrogation.

Qur’an 2:106—Whatever verse we shall abrogate, or cause [thee] to forget, we will bring a better than it, or one like unto it. Dost thou not know that God is almighty?

Qur’an 16:101—When We substitute one revelation for another—and God knows best what He reveals (in stages)—they say, “Thou art but a forger”: but most of them understand not.

According to the Qur’an, then, when Muslims are faced with conflicting commands, they aren’t supposed to pick the one they like best. Rather, they are to go to history and see which verse was revealed last. Whichever verse came last is said to abrogate (or cancel) earlier revelations.

What happens when we apply this methodology to Qur’anic verses on peace and violence?

THE CALL TO JIHAD: THREE STAGES

When we turn to Islam’s theological sources and historical writings (Qur’an, Hadith, Sira, and Tafsir), we find that there are three stages in the call to Jihad, depending on the status of Muslims in a society.

STAGE ONE — When Muslims are completely outnumbered and can’t possibly win a physical confrontation with unbelievers, they are to live in peace with non-Muslims and preach a message of tolerance. We see an example of this stage when Muhammad and his followers were a persecuted minority in Mecca. Since the Muslims were entirely outnumbered, the revelations Muhammad received during this stage (e.g. “You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion”) called for religious tolerance and proclaimed a future punishment (rather than a worldly punishment) for unbelievers.

STAGE TWO — When there are enough Muslims and resources to defend the Islamic community, Muslims are called to engage in defensive Jihad. Thus, when Muhammad had formed alliances with various groups outside Mecca and the Muslim community had become large enough to begin fighting, Muhammad received Qur’an 22:39-40:

Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them; Those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say: our Lord is Allah. . . .

Although Muslims in the West often pretend that Islam only allows defensive fighting, later revelations show otherwise.

STAGE THREE — When Muslims establish a majority and achieve political power in an area, they are commanded to engage in offensive Jihad. Hence, once Mecca and Arabia were under Muhammad’s control, he received the call the fight all unbelievers. In Surah 9:29, we read:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Notice that this verse doesn’t order Muslims to fight oppressors, but to fight those who don’t believe in Islam (including the “People of the Book”—Jews and Christians).

Not surprisingly, we find similar commands in Islam’s most trusted collections of ahadith (traditions containing Muhammad’s teachings).

Sahih al-Bukhari 6924—Muhammad said: “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: La ilaha illallah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), and whoever said La ilaha illahllah, Allah will save his property and his life from me.”

Sahih Muslim 30—Muhammad said: “I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah.”

Here again, the criterion for fighting people is that the people believe something other than Islam.

It’s clear, then, that when Muslims rose to power, peaceful verses of the Qur’an were abrogated by verses commanding Muslims to fight people based on their beliefs. Islam’s greatest scholars acknowledge this. For instance, Ibn Kathir (Islam’s greatest commentator on the Qur’an) sums up Stage Three as follows: “Therefore all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to do so, or refuses to pay the Jizyah, they should be fought till they are killed.”

WHEN MUSLIMS REACH STAGE THREE

Abrogation also accounts for shifting attitudes regarding Jews and Christians in the Qur’an. While Muslims are to be friendly to Jews and Christians when the former are outnumbered, the Islamic position changes when Muslims reach Stage Three, at which point Christians and Jews are to recognize their inferior status and pay the Jizyah (a payment made to Muslims in exchange for not being killed by them). Consider some of Muhammad’s later teachings about Christians and Jews:

Qur’an 5:51 — O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Qur’an 9:30 — And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Qur’an 98:6 — Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein. They are the worst of creatures.

Sahih Muslim 4366—Muhammad said: “I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.”

Al-Bukhari, Al-Adab al-Mufrad 1103—Muhammad said: “Do not give the People of the Book the greeting first. Force them to the narrowest part of the road.”

Needless to say, these teachings can hardly be considered peaceful or tolerant.

MUSLIMS IN THE WEST or on NAIRALAND

Since Muhammad obviously commanded his followers to fight unbelievers (simply for being unbelievers), why do Muslims in the West deny this? Here we must turn to Surah 3:28, which reads:

Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security.

According to this verse (which uses a variation of the word Taqiyya, meaning “concealment”), Muslims are not allowed to be friends with non-Muslims. However, if Muslims feel threatened by a stronger adversary, they are allowed to pretend to be friendly. Ibn Kathir comments: “In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship outwardly but never inwardly.” Abu Darda, one of Muhammad’s companions, put it this way: “We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.”

Is Islam a religion of peace? No. [size=15pt]Islam is a religion that pretends to be peaceful when Muslims are too weak to win a war[/size]. Of course, there are many Muslims who aren’t violent. Many Muslims in the West love peace and tolerance. But they didn’t get these values from Islam. They got them from the West, and now they’re reinterpreting Islam based on their Western values. For dedicated Muslims, however, there are only two possible situations to be in: (1) fighting unbelievers, and (2) pretending to be peaceful while preparing to fight unbelievers. Either way, fighting non-Muslims and conquering the world in the name of Allah is always the goal.


I await your response

talk2me006: I KNOW YOU HAVE BLINDFOLDED WITH TRUTH!
READ THIS:

[b]lanrexlan: I will insha allahu use this post to conclude the thing about the original injeel and Taurat and the bible.This will be my last post on that topic.Consider the following verses of the glorious Quran:


Surah Al-baqarah 2;75-76-'And when they(Jews) meet those who believe(Muslims),they say,'We believe',but when they meet one another in private,they say,'shall you(Jews) tell them(muslims) what Allah has revealed to you,that they(muslims) may argue with you(Jews) about it before your lord? Have you(Jews) then no understanding? Know they(Jews)not that Allah knows what they conceal and what they reveal?

Surah Al-baqarah 2;101-'And when there came to them a messenger of Allah(i.e. Muhammed(pbuh))confirming what was with them,a party of those who were given the scriptures(Jews and Christians) threw away the book of Allah behind their backs as if they did not know!'.

Surah Al-baqarah 2;146-''Those to whom We gave the scriptures(Jews and Christians) recognize him(muhammed(pbuh)) as they recognize their sons.But verily,a party of them conceal the truth while they know it(i.e. The qualities of prophet muhammed(pbuh))written in injeel and Taurat)''.

Surah Al-imran 3;187-''(And remember) when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the scriptures(Jews and Christians) to make it known and clear to mankind and not to hide it,but they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some miserable gain!And indeed worst is that which they bought''.

Surah Al-maidah 5;14-15-''And from those who call themselves christians,we took their covenant,but they have abandoned a good part of the message that was sent to them'.So we planted amongst them enmity and hatred till the day of judgement and Allah will inform them what they used to do''.

Brothers,it's clearly stated in the above verses that the Jews and christians have threw away the good part of the message revealed to them,disclosing a little.That's the reason I claimed the bible isn't the injeel,it may contain some GOD's word but a bulk of it are words of historians.Hope that clarifies that...Peace brothers.[/b]

WITH PLENTY OF PROOFS BEFORE AND THIS ONE, I CAN SAY YOU HAVE BEEN KNOCK OUT.BROS REST IN PEACE BROS!

Keep riding on lanrexlan shoulders . I responded and dis-armed his arguments.

talk2me006: GBAM!

GBAM - GBAM - GBAM - GBAM =====> Say it 5 billion times, makes no difference

talk2me006: GBAM!

You have provided good points and I responded. It's a debate not a religious lesson . Your points conflict with other Surahs in your Quran.

lanrexlan: I will insha allahu use this post to conclude the thing about the original injeel and Taurat and the bible.This will be my last post on that topic.Consider the following verses of the glorious Quran:


Surah Al-baqarah 2;75-76-'And when they(Jews) meet those who believe(Muslims),they say,'We believe',but when they meet one another in private,they say,'shall you(Jews) tell them(muslims) what ALLAH has revealed to you,that they(muslims) may argue with you(Jews) about it before your lord? Have you(Jews) then no understanding? Know they(Jews)not that Allah knows what they conceal and what they reveal?

Surah Al-baqarah 2;101-'And when there came to them a messenger of ALLAH(i.e. Muhammed(pbuh))confirming what was with them,a party of those who were given the scriptures(Jews and Christians) threw away the book of ALLAH behind their backs as if they did not know!'.

Surah Al-baqarah 2;146-''Those to whom We gave the scriptures(Jews and Christians) recognize him(muhammed(pbuh)) as they recognize their sons.But verily,a party of them conceal the truth while they know it(i.e. The qualities of prophet muhammed(pbuh))written in injeel and Taurat)''.

Surah Al-imran 3;187-''(And remember) when ALLAH took a covenant from those who were given the scriptures(Jews and Christians) to make it known and clear to mankind and not to hide it,but they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some miserable gain!And indeed worst is that which they bought''.

Surah Al-maidah 5;14-15-''And from those who call themselves christians,we took their covenant,but they have abandoned a good part of the message that was sent to them'.So we planted amongst them enmity and hatred till the day of judgement and ALLAH will inform them what they used to do''.

Brothers,it's clearly stated in the above verses that the Jews and christians have threw away the good part of the message revealed to them,disclosing a little.That's the reason I claimed the bible isn't the injeel,it may contain some GOD's word but a bulk of it are words of historians.Hope that clarifies that...Peace brothers.

Hi lanrexlan - thanks for explaining and taking time to throw light on this - I really really appreciate this. You are very objective when you respond. Let us consider your answers, it will give us more insight into the situation.

You quoted Surah 2: 75-76; 101; 146; 3:187; 5:14-15 as proof that Jews and Christians are the ones responsible for corrupting the Bible/Torah and these are the EVIDENCE because they threw the book away Meaning it was lost

Basically, you are saying that - Allah MUST have given Jesus the Injeel before the Surahs above since the Jews and Christians lost it. So, the Injeel and the Torah must have been given to Jews and Christians either in Surah 1 or Surah 2 or Surah 3 or Surah 4 BUT not later than Surah 5 because by then, they had LOST/THREW away etc the Injeel.

[size=15pt]NOW, READ YOUR HOLY QURAN AFTER SURAH 5[/size]

Surah 10:37 ===> This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.

POINT1 = So, after the Jews & Christians corrupted and lost the Injeel in Surah 2 & 5. Allah came back and said - Listen, the entire Quran is confirmation of the SAME BOOK that was LOST.

Surah 29:45-46 ===> Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish regular Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and remembrance of Allah is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And Allah knows the (deeds) that ye do. And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).

Point2 = So, Allah left Surah 2 & Surah 5 where He said that the Injeel was "lost" because the Jews and Christians threw it away. Allah came back and said, oops, [size=15pt]MY BAD, Don't DISPUTE ANYTHING WITH PEOPLE OF THE BOOK. THE REVELATION THAT I GIVE YO MUSLIMS AND THE REVELATION THAT THEIR GOD GAVE THEM ARE THE SAME - NOTHING IS LOST, EVERYTHING IS THE SAME AND CORRECT.[/size].

I hope I am not mis-quoting the Quran. Allah came in Chapter 2 & 5 and said - Guys, these guys threw away the Injeel I gave them. He stopped there and never said it was lost BUT for argument sake - NL muslims said - the jews and christians LOST IT. Then Allah came in Surah 10 and 46 and said - Omo, my people are all the same; the revelation I gave the Jews and Christians are the same revelation.

So, how can the Injeel be lost in Surah 2 & 5 and then be the same revelation in Surah 10 & 46. Surely, Allah is consistent & a true muslims believes in EVERYTHING THAT ALLAH SAYS:

Surah 2:136 ===> Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

So, if what you posted is right in Surah 2 & 5, is Allah lying in Surah 10 & 46?. Can God lie?

maclatunji: I am sure liars are damned in the Bible. Your account was banned for 2 hours for breaking a rule. The reason is there on your profile. Creating/using another handle to sidestep a ban is also an offence. You will be sanctioned.

You can debate all you want but stay within the rules.

My account was banned before I created another one to POST - YOU ARE ABUSING YOUR POSITION MATE. I will ignore your actions and follow procedures to get annoyances like this addressed. You are cherry picking who should be BANNED and who shouldn't abi? Keep it going.

Proffdada: Cyberterrorism

Abuse of position. I emailed Seun and told him to caution his "Dedicated" muslim moderator.

Is it in the Quran that the "original" Injeel is LOST and the present Bible is "Corrupt". Can nairaland muslims tell us where they get this concept from?

lanrexlan: Walah,I am tired of this thread,someone claiming no question has been answered after all that long run? Ha,are you afraid of the truth? Go back and read the thread from the beginning...Peace

His point is that no one has ADDRESSED the poster questions. Like the same way when we ask - Where is the LOST Injeel - muslims explain it away but can't provide an AUTHORITATIVE answer where it is. Yet, they CLAIM the current BIBLE is CORRUPT.

So, while you are attempting to answer the questions from the Quran - you are not addressing the questions. There is a difference

maclatunji: That the Bible contradicts itself has already been established on this thread or are you playing blind?

That you can't back up your CLAIM of a corrupt Bible shows you are not HONEST and deliberately distorting facts. THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS STILL ON YOU. You haven't provided A SINGLE EVIDENCE to backup your claim.

[size=20pt]LATER - YOU WILL LOCK ME OUT TO THE THREAD BECAUSE I AM UNDER YOUR SKIN . CHOOSING SIDES BECAUSE OF RELIGIOUS LEANINGS ARE WE[/size]

I have asked Seun to address you about this - Nairaland is his business and if he wants to keep it neutral, his moderators should learn to play fair.

lanrexlan: I thought you understand my post fully,but I see you don't comprehend it fully.I will explain in a more dynamic way.The Taurat we Muslims believe in is not the "Torah" of the Jews
and the Christians
.We believe that whatever the Holy
Prophet Moses (Peace be upon him)preached to his people,was
the revelation from God Almighty,but that Moses was NOT the
author of those "books" attributed to him by the Jews and the
Christians.
Likewise,we believe that the Zaboor was the revelation of God
granted to prophet David(Peace be upon him)but that
the present Psalms associated with his name aren't that
revelation.The Christians themselves do not insist that David is
the sole author of "his" Psalms.That's what I meant in my other post,the injeel is no more because it was revealed for jesus(pbuh)and his people only,so it's not preserved and due to changes in time,corruption has set in,the bible may contain some remnants of GOD's word but the original injeel has been distorted.Consider this verse of the glorious quran,in surah Al-imran 3;71-'o people of the scriptures(Jews and Christians);why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?''So from time to time,falsehood has crept into the injeel,the people conceals the truth about the injeel revealing a little and concealing most,then falsehood set in.That's why I said the original injeel is no more,the bible may contain some GOD's words but bulk of the bible are words of historians,hope that explains better...Peace brother.

Mate - How come all what you are saying is not DOCUMENTED IN THE QURAN. [size=18pt]ALLAH SAID HE GAVE THE INJEEL AS A BOOK[/size] TO JESUS..

So, it is not only a revelation from what the Quran said but it's also a physical book. If you can't provide a reference to the book or a copy of it - then you can't claim the present Bible is corrupt. Which part of the present Bible is corrupt, the whole thing - who said it was corrupt - you or Allah?

sam4xadams: All this u have said are xtian now the boko animal or alqedas

Abeg, ask him again!