₦airaland Forum

chuxyz: WORD!!! Bro you hit the sword (nail too short) on the head.

I was going to give you my own answer until I saw this post of yours. Obviously this shows you are not here to reason with divergent views rather to stick to your already drawn conclusion even before opening this thread so believe whatever you want. Nobody is forcing you to believe in God. Its a matter of choice. What you choose is what you ll get at last.

joezakdeen: d fact dat peter said he has no gold to ofer doesnt mean if he had, he wudnt giv. Its even not compulsory if u hv. Bsides dats not tithe acording to d bible, acordin to d txt it was giving to d poor nd needy buh peter rather healed. Tithe is not taken frm unbelievers who do not even knw its esence buh if u r in d family already u hv to suport to facilitate the evangelism of today. Dats y jesus said we shudnt colect frm those we r goin to preach to. Buh after they come nd understand the teaching nd stay, its also fair dat they giv frm their heart to b able to win anoda lost sheep. Pray fr understandin of the bible bro nd learn.

Bros I am not against tithe but the way some of these pastors are using church money to enrich themselves is very annoying. How do you justify a pastor who is living in so much luxury while some members of his congregation are living in penury? In that same church there are students who are owing school fees. Yet members of that same church will scream halleluyah that God is blessing their pastor. Are you not bothered about this display of mumurism by this set of naija christians?

lastmessenger: Pastor Olu it amaze me that you believe the crap that the catholic church is the first church.what i know is that the first church started in the book of Acts when the disciples of Christ recieved the Holy ghost.The Catholic church we know today was founded in Rome.

Thank you my brother. You have said it all. I knew this thread will go this way. With this truth you have said, I hereby exit the thread with joy in my heart. God bless you.

paxonel: you are right! heb 10:24 says let us provoke one another unto love so the reason why we should go to church is for pastors to teach us how to love which is the moral value we get from the Bible. If pastors were teaching us love then going to church wouldn't have been bad at all. but unfortunately they have not been teaching nigerians how to love that is why i say stop going to church. no love, no morality inspite all the churches, corruption and poverty is everywhere and pastors don't care. All they want is tithe and offering to buy private jet and build universities that will not profit the poor. God is not happy with Nigerian churches please stop going to church, all of them are guilty

Sure you are right but it is better for Nigerian Christians to begin to ask questions on questionable attitudes of their pastors and laws of the church. Personally if i see questionable things in the branch where i worship i always meet the pastor to sort it out with him. Sometimes i even raise it up in the church. You don't keep quiet and allow things to spoil. It is better to speak out than to stay out of the assembly of brethren.

frosbel: It does not.

If you have 4 or even 2 people meeting in a home and praying to God, this is sufficient. Fellowship does not mean Apostolic Faith, Deeper life , Baptist or even JW, it means Gods people meeting randomly , in no fixed location or home and in no particular order , to pray, share bread and witness.

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." - Matthew 18:20

and

"What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up" - 1 Corinthians 14:26

It does not say , so that Apostolic Faith may be built up, the emphasis is on the church of God which is made up, not of so called man led churches but made up of families and individuals who have been regenerated into the church of Christ with Jesus as its head.

The essence of church, whether Apostolic Faith or Deeper Life or anyone, is for the assembling of ourselves. I'm not talking about whether it bears a name or whether there are crowd there. The bottom line is that we should not forsake the assembling of ourselves. It doesnt matter where we assemble. I dont see my stand at variance with what you wrote, except you think so.

paxonel: please stop going to church you Nigerians. church is bad. Jesus didn't ask us to be going to church, there is difference between THE CHURCH and church. THE CHURCH is the body of Christ which is me and you while church is mere building. please stop going to church, you are THE CHURCH already. if you have brain to think you will understand what I'm saying. a word is enough for the wise

Your advice runs contrary to
Hebrews 10:25
25 We should not stop gathering together with other believers, as some of you are doing. Instead, we must continue to encourage each other even more as we see the day of the Lord coming.

The early christians were gathering together in the new testament so there is nothing wrong in it. Just that one must not swallow every church doctrine or every word of the pastor. Anything that runs contrary to the scripture should be rejected.

cidieschat: So if the hell is real, why create us as humans?.

Yea hell fire/lake of fire is real. God is a creator and he created man because he wanted to create man. There's nothing you can do about it than to embrace the salvation which he has made available to whosoever will. Its just like electric current, if you make good use of it you enjoy your appliances but if you are careless with it then it can blow up your appliances, it can also shock you to death. All depends on your choice.

cidieschat: Why not make us angels so we all can sing the "Hossanna" than this gamble called life.

If you embrace his salvation, when you get to heaven you ll be higher than the angels and you ll sing Hossanna. It all depends on your choice now. Do not reject his salvation. May God help you. Amen.

^^^^ the truth of God's word remains unchanged. No matter how you twist it nothing changes in it. It is this truth that will be used to juddge everyone of us(including you). so if you choose not to believe it or choose to twist it to suit your selfish or evil desires then you are deceiving yourself. The choice still remains yours. In one breath you quoted bible to show me how evil God is, and when I presented a clearer picture of what you quoted, in another breath you now went back to claim that the bible is man's concotion. When you thought the place you quoted satisfied your evil mindset towards God it was God who said it but when I brought up the version that destroyed your evil tendencies it became man's concoted word. Who is deceiving who?

mazaje: God is an idea that is why you are here speaking on its behalf. if your god is real you will not speak on its behalf he will do it himself but because your god remains an idea you will have to keep speaking for it, same with muslims, hindus etc all humans speaking on behalf of their god ideas. .No god can speak for itself because non exist in reality only in the pages of story books written by men. . . .Your god idea can be god, but it is also evil. . from the bible. . .

Jer 42:9
And said unto them, Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, unto whom ye sent me to present your supplication before him;
Jer 42:10If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.

Here is your god doing evil and apologizing for it. . .You keep calling it wrath when the bible has its god acknowledging his evil deeds. . .There is a lot of reason why many christians the world over do not want to associate with the god construct you have made out of the bible, it is sadistic and their own sense of morality is way ahead that of the god idea you have chosen to construct for yourself using the pages of the bible, every christian just use the pages of the bible to create a god idea that he/she wishes, that is why there is constant and endless disagreements in the christian body about even the basic nature of god and how people can achieve salvation. . .

My friend, below is another version of the place you quoted. The original text of the bible wasnt english thats why when we read we check other versions in order to have a better understanding of it.

Jeremaiah 42;9,10
9 and said to them, “Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, to whom you sent me to present your petition before Him: 10 ‘If you will still remain in this land, then I will build you and not pull you down, and I will plant you and not pluck you up. For I relent concerning the disaster that I have brought upon you.


Anybody can choose not to serve the God of the bible but it doesn't change anything. We don't follow God based on what people think about him. it is based on what is in the scriptures. The choice still remains yours. Everything boils down to choice.

jacksonite: Thirdly,by creating hell even before man,does it mean that there was fore knowledge and planning for hell's candidates?(why create an empty hell?)

In the Matthew 25:46 that i quoted earlier on Jesus said that it was prepared for the devil and his angels. We dont know when it was prepared just as we dont know when the world was created. Jesus said it was prepared for the devil and his angels but in that verse, those who also did not follow the way of God like the devil were cast in that same fire. What Jesus said is what we will take, not anybody's interpretation. The whole thing boils down to CHOICE. If anyone chooses to follow the path of the devil(which is the path of disobedience) then he also suffers the same punishment with him.

jacksonite: Fourthly,since God knows every ones in and out why does he allow people to sin only to throw them in to hell? For example,as a human,if I know my child is planning to harm someone, I would rather do everything to stop my child rather than allow him commit the act and then punish him after.

God is a creator, he had a concept of what he wanted in each creation. In the creation of man his concept was to have a creature who will be in his image. Who will have freewill to reason and make a choice. Not a robot. And from the garden of Eden He has always warned man about his choice. He made provisions redemption so that when we make a wrong choice we can be redeemed. He is the creator, it is his concept that will prevail not yours or mine.

mazaje: Why do you call it wrath, it is pure, evil. . .Even the bible says its god does evil. . .So why not just call it what it is. . .The god of the bible is god acknowledging his evil deeds and apologizing for it, why do you keep insisting that it is wrath?. . .Its just evil. . .The bible god is just a character that exist in the biblical stories and not in reality, that you chose to believe it is your own problem. . . Does Allah or Zeus exist outside the koran and greek mythological stories?. . .Same is what your own god idea that was invented by the ancient jews. . .

You can call it anything you like we couldn't be bothered. You are not God and you are not the bible. We follow/believe the bible and not you or anybody. In Malachi 3;6 God said, i am the Lord, I change not. We believe this. He is the God of judgment and we also believe this. when he judges you and you fall on the wrong side you ll face his wrath. He talked about his wrath in several places in the bible and we also believe this. He is a loving God and we also believe this. His love comprises his mercy and compassion. He is a just God and he has made a way of escape for us. its either you embrace the salvation of God or reject it to your own peril(may God help you to stop rejecting it. Amen). He has left us with CHOICE. Whatever you choose you face. God is greater than you, He is greater than all of us and there is nothing you or anybody can do about it. He is in charge. Your belief or disbelief cannot change it.

mazaje: This is a public forum and i can discuss what ever I want to discuss. . . .God has no description according to the bible. . .his description is just all over the place, people just use their own idea when formulating what god is supposed to be to them, you have no problem with believing in a loving and sadistic god at the same time, other christians do and your own conception and idea of god does not supersede theirs. . .. . .

In the bible we saw God display his loving nature and in the same bible we saw him display wrath. It is foolishness for anyone to believe one side of him and reject the other. Bible remains our guide and not what you think. Yea you are free to discuss in a public forum but you know you are deceiving yourself with your no-God belief.

mazaje: Stop talking about love because your god is no love, at least he is not love the way we humans define love. . .What offence will your child commit to you that will make you burn your son/daughter for 100 years in fire?. . .You guys just use this sick idea to enslave yourselves through fear. . .Next minute you will open your mouths and say your god is merciful. . .Do you know what it means to be merciful?. . .To be merciful is to treat people better than they deserve. . .Your god can not be just and merciful at the same time, to be just means to treat people the way they deserve. . .You keep concocting words and ascribing to this fictitious god of your that keep making him impossible. .A just an merciful god is impossible. . .By the way the god is the bible has changed, a simple reading of the bible from the OT to the new shows that this god character has evolved completely. . .Saying that god does not change is your own making. . .

Hey, we are discussing our God and I'm saying what He is according to the bible. I'm not begging you to believe. And those deceivers up here who are telling you that he is only a loving God have you believed them? By the way you said he does not exist yet you always intrude when we are discussing him. Doesn't that smack of foolishness on your part? Obviously you are deceiving yourself with your no-God believe.

.

jacksonite: According to Christian mythology hell is that place of eternal grief for sinners.But the whole idea of hell leaves me with the following questions 1 Who is the creator of hell-Satan or God?

All these people telling you that there is no hell fire are just deceiving you. Jesus himself spoke about hell fire in several places and he said it is an everlasting fire. In Matthew 25;46 Jesus stated it clearly that it was prepared for the devil and his angels and he went on to say that the unrighteous will be cast there. So it wasnt the devil that prepared it. All these agents of deceits here will always want to twist things because they are scared of hell fire for whatever reason.

jacksonite: 2 Why was hell created even before man and sin came to be?(there is no mention of it in the biblical creation story) Let me explain why I pose these questions. Firstly, if God is the creator of hell,then given that he also created man and also loves man so much,why did he create eternal damnation for him?(after all,everything that he made is good)

God never said he is only a loving God. He has always made it clear that he is also a God of wrath/judgment but human being in our selfish nature will always want to view God from his loving nature only and use it to condemn the other side of him. Thats unfair.. Since God is the same yesterday, today and forever(unchangeable God) then it means that this attributes of him(love and judgment/wrath) has been part of him before creation. He never developed wrath because of man. And obviously it was because he knows the severity of his wrath that he made the redemption plan from the foundation of the world so that the freewill man he created will have an option to escape from his wrath and that is a manifestation of his love. Thats why in the new testament it was the sacrifice that was made on the cross for our redemption that God used to talk about his love. There is no where that God used hell fire/lake of fire to measure his love. It is the agents of deceit who are interpreting the scriptures with sentiments that uses God's wrath to measure his love. These two natures of God are separate and they are eternal. Its left for you to CHOOSE the one you want. The best that God can do is the escape route he has made for us. God cannot change his nature for any reason. As his omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent nature are eternal so are his love and wrath/judgment eternal. All of them are part of his nature. None will be wiped out of existence at any time.
Let it therefore be known to you that heaven is a complete manifestation of God's love(nature) while hell fire/lake of fire is a complete manifestation of his wrath(nature). And both of them are eternal as Jesus said so make your CHOICE and dont allow this deceivers to deceive you.

I will answer the rest of your question after.

frosbel:

Tgirl4real: Why do you think Reyginus is close to being an atheist?

Not Reyginus. It was frosbel that i said is close to being an atheist.

@DrummaBoy,

Thanks dear. I think the suggested write up for the tract which you posted here is balanced. May God take control. Amen. I'm not a beneficiary of tithe money rather I am a giver so its not a do or die affair for me. I am doing it purely because its in the bible and when Jesus spoke about it he didnt condemn it(at least that would ve been a good time for him to do so). I am open to God's truth at all times. My prayer has always been- Let his truth crush any falsehood in me. Amen.

I will go through the WOF thread you mentioned. God bless you.

mkpakanaodogwu: Blacks and over religiousity

Black man and long name... imagine your username

DrummaBoy: Good.

And "amen" too to the bolded.

Read my last response to Bidam and see my statement on judgement, that I am ready to be held responsible by God for what I am doing here.

Ok dear. No problem. Tithe has been an age long practice in the church. If God sees it as an error and wants to correct it now then let his truth prevail. I dont have problem with tithing and i dont have problem with giving as recorded in the new testament. By the grace of God i do both and i have no regrets. However, if tithe is false as you people said then let your message triumph over it and crash it in Christendom, if not, then let your message crash. If both are good let them each stand. Amen. I stand for God's truth. God bless you.

PastorOluT: I just can't understand u frosbel, so when the bible uses the word forever n ever n d likes, to u its different?

Thats what happens when someone interprets the bible with sentiment. Trying to defend God is an error that every christian must get rid of in his life. Saying the truth about God no matter how hard it may sound is what is required of us. God will always defend himself when the time comes.

DrummaBoy: I believe you are directing your question at the wrong person. It is Bidam you should be asking those question and possibly, also, ask him what could be eating him up.

Check the Genesis of his post here, it has been one diatribe after another. What exactly has anyone said that requires a reminder of Ananias and Saphira? Is it not high time someone shows him the source of his frustrations, which is so well captured in the scripture trustman provided?

If anyone is panicking here, it should be firstly Gombs and then lately Bidam. And for reasons no one can tell because no one has asked them for anything to make the tracts. So the first question that you should be asking them both, or which all of you tithers should be asking yourselves is what exactly is your business here on this thread? And if it is to exercise your freedom of expression, then what exactly is biting you guys about the printing of a tithe tract? Or are you pastors whose business would be threatened by the project?

Let's start with those for now.

Its a very simple thing. If I am not lying about an issue and somebody quotes Ananias case to me i will simply say - no problem. A clear conscience shouldn't panic in such statement. When you panic it shows there is something behind it. Let me tell you that nothing is biting me about what you people are doing. I'm not rigid about tithe. I'm not also convinced to stop and i dont condemn those who are not paying tithe. As you are led pls go ahead. Its a free world. My simple prayer is- If what you people are doing is truly from God, may it prosper but if it is not from God, may it crash. Amen. I dont think the Op banned tithers from commenting. If he did, i will stop commenting.

Processor01: Error! Jesus never told any demons to die and he rebuked his disciples when they thought of calling down fire in their enemies.

Most MFM prayers sound like a prayer list from a Dibia or Babalawo! They just help in breeding fear!

YOU ARE RIGHT. GOD BLESS YOU. THEY ARE JUST DECEIVING THEMSELVES.

frosbel: As I said , the god who is against torture but who perpetuates the worst type of torture is a schizophrenic , hypocrite and sadist and is definitively not the God of the bible.

Says frosbel. We cant believe frosbel, we will believe Jesus. He is the one who told us about the torments of hell and we believe him hundred percent.
Of course you ve told us that your own Jesus is different. Your own Jesus runs contrary to what is written in the scripture so we dont need him. Even the unbelievers here have said it several times to you that you are sounding like them. Some said it was the same part you are following that they followed and finally landed in atheism. What does this tell? The part you are following is a dangerous one. Its very simple to understand. If I'm doing something and someone suffering of a disease tells me that the same thing I am doing was what he did before falling into what he is suffering, the wisest thing for me to do is to desist from doing that. The more reason we cant follow your part.

frosbel: ^^

Your belief in this place of everlasting torment is a myth , a fairy tale and if this is the lie you keep feeding your members every Sunday , now is the time to stop.

Actually you are the one deceiving yourself that it doesn't exist even when Jesus said it exists. We can't believe you more than Jesus.

Tgirl4real: I don't intend using him as my compass. I am quite objective.

That's good.

trustman: Luke 6:45:
"The good person out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil person out of his evil treasure produces evil, [size=14pt]for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.[/size]"

Are you afraid of what Bidam said? Is your teaching a lie? Search yourself. I don't understand the panic.

Dapo777: You are the confused one here,you claim to know the Bible well and also claim that the Israelites don't believe in God,why don't you tell me the god they believe in if not God.
If you are not the confused one here.

I don't have time for silly argument. You asked that we should show you in the bible where it is written that the children of Isreal had unbelief and I showed you. Rather than accept it you started some foolish talk and questions. Remain in your foolushness. If I show you any other thing you will still display your foolishness and I don't have that time to waste. I discuss with people who accept their errors. Bye.

malvisguy212: do you read the bible at all? On many occasion, the israelite forsook God and worship baal.

my dear leave the guy, he is confused. I hope Seun will start charging people for opening a thread so that some of this people will reason well before they spend money to open a thread.

Dapo777: Hmmmm,so which god did the Israelite believe in if not God? ( I want to learn something new today)

Kindly read those portions again with a sane mind.

Dapo777: Why would I try to authenticate a miracle published on tv when I already know the reason behind such displays on tv. So you think everybody would just believe whatever magic or miracles they are entertained with on tv like you do? Gullibility isn't in everyone.

My friend stop being foolish. Do you know what it means to research? You are the one that came out here and started making noise that God does not show himself in our time. Now someone gave you examples where miracles take place, if you are serious about what you are accusing God of why dont you go on a research and authenticate whether what we are saying is real or not. I also said that Its not all churches that make noise about miracle. e.g. my church. Why dont you go to those ones that are not showing on tv and verify since you are reluctant about the ones on tv(too bad of a researcher)? Again you were the one that said you dont believe what you ve not witnessed or verified. Now i ve asked you to go and verify and here you are singing a discordant(silly) tone. Abeg go sleep. you dont even know what you want. You just open a thread and start spewing rubbish. I blame Seun who made threads free.

Dapo777: Why don't u quote the verse in the Bible which indicate that the Israelites didn't believe God.

Hebrews 3;16-19

16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.


Also Romans 11;19-22

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[f] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

You can start from verse 1 to read through if you dont understand.