₦airaland Forum

jl115:
Yes its a totally new aircraft witch is based on the mig 21, just like the olifant mbt is a totally different from the centurion tank.

JF-17 engine is MiG-29 engine, and between MiG-21 and MiG-29 there are 3 different MiG series gone by !

Engine proves JF-17 is based on MiG-29 Fulcrum 4th generation fighter

Show me a source that says JF-17 Thunder is based on MiG-21

I can show you one that proves you wrong :

"The official said, "This transfer of technology—transposing the aircraft systems from the J-10 to the JF-17—is what makes the JF-17 so cost-effective". The use of computer-aided design software shortened the design phase of the JF-17."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC/PAC_JF-17_Thunder

JF-17 is a mix of MiG-29 Fulcrum, J-10 Dragon, and the other newly created unique featured of JF-17 itself, like the never-seen-before wings

@Pateches deemolished
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jl115:
You are a true village idi0t my friend.
The source says as i quoted it before, the hms on the jf-17 is only used for targeting.
HMSD or HMS/D = HMS you cant have both only the one or the other.

You cannot use your own brain logic to interpret an essay until the writer spoon feeds you like a toddler.

Does the same source explain what each of the over 20 listed weapons/equipment of the JF-17 does one by one?

The source says the JF-17 has both HMS and HMD combines as HMS/D, the HMS part is used for targeting, but as a Soweto mumu, you need to be told in abc language what the HMD part is used for because you think HMD means Home Made Donuts....Mumu Domingo
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jl115:
HMD= HMDs project information similar to that of head-up displays (HUD) on an aircrew’s visor or reticle, thereby allowing him to obtain situational awareness and/or cue weapons systems to the direction his head is pointing, dus targeting plus additional info displayed on hud.
Plus i love how you left out the part where it says we created it first.(These devices were created first by South Africa, then the Soviet Union and followed by the United States)

A helmet-mounted sight (HMS) developed by Luoyang Electro-Optics Technology Development Centre of AVIC was developed in parallel with the JF-17; it was first tested on Prototype 04 in 2006.[71][72] It was dubbed as EO HMS, (Electro-Optical Helmet Mounted Sight) and was first revealed to the public in 2008 at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow, where a partial mock-up was on display.[73] The HMS tracks the pilot's head and eye movements to guide missiles towards the pilot's visual target.

If you are still confused then you are just plain stupd!

Nope, you are the retaarrd, you fraudulently left out the end of the same source on JF-17 that says it has both HMS and HMD combined :

"Avionics

DEEC electronic warfare suite
NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar
Night vision goggles (NVG) compatible glass cockpit
Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
Externally mounted avionics pods:
KG-300G self-protection radar jamming pod
WMD-7 day/night targeting pod"


You are the newest fraudster Soweto sent to us here !
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jl115:
Nope all 3 sources are about the gripen c/d just READ the sources PLEASE, i dont want to quote the sources for no reason when it clearly states that its about the gripen c/d.

Is every internet source reliable? South African defenseweb that you trust 100% says Nigeria has about 100 units of BTR-3U IFVs and it is very very wrong

There are stupiid interent sources with false information.
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jl115:
Yes your right but i was never arguing that fact, just pointed out that the gripen was a new design.

[size=16pt]Same way JF-17 Thunder is a new design, no aircraft in this world looks like it....Unique !
[/size]
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patches689:
Because the 105mm is still under design

The new turret seems to include an autoloader and a heat sheild on the barrel as well as active defence

Just because we have decided that we dont need the 105mm now doesnt mean development on the concept has stopped

Only one unit was built in 25 years, SANDF rejected 105mm gun Rooikat many years ago and would NEVER accept it.

Case closed.

patches689:
Nope the breech is a copy of the italian design

And your source is a rumor from an artical without citations written by the same women who said mandela was dead when he was not

Citations that the Rooikat is accurate up to 2km have been posted many times

Your personal opinion does not count.

The South African insider sources say DENEL copied the Italian gun same way Chinese would copy .

The same RSA sources say Rooikat gun is inaccurate for army targets, it is the copy of a naval gun for use against huge ships at sea

Case closed.

MduZA:
south African doctors were absorbed by American market before ANC came to power....

South African doctors are still emigrating to America today, they also run away to Canada and Australia.

I have friends among them, some just arrived America this year, ran away from ANC republic. Liar !
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jl115:
Nope the source YOU GAVE again clearly states that there is a difference one is for targeting and the other for targeting and display of hud info etc. Plus the jf-17 source you gave also states that the hms/d is only used for targeting

Quote that part. Confused man !

jl115:
Fair enough but the exsport version, the one NAF MIGHT be getting will only have a range of 250km!
BTW you dont have the missile yet, never mind the aircraft!!

No hurry. Done deal. It will come.

jl115:
SOURCE YOU gave says 180km-240km, give another source to prove your new 500km range please!

You need to buy new reading eye-glasses with ANC cash support ?

"
The CM-400AKG was demonstrated to the public for the first time during the Zhuhai airshow last year. The YJ-12 was originally designed to be used against multiple targets including US aircraft carriers with a combat range of 500 kilometers and can be carried by various platforms such as bombers like the H-6 and JH-7, fighter jets such as the J-11B, J-15, J-16 and Su-30MKK and Type 052D destroyers. However, the range of the CM-400AKG has been reduced to 250 kilometers to meet export restrictions of the international Missile Technology Control Regime."

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20131126000062&cid=1101

This is the missile Nigeria will use to sink ALL your Valour frigate warships in 5 minutes !
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jl115:
CM-400akg range=180-240km
KEPD 350 range= over 500km

cm-400akg speed is extremely impressive though!

www.taurus-systems.de/tsg/brocs/TAURUS%20KEPD%20350.pdf

Nope, range of the CM-400 is 500km, just that export versions were deliberately reduced in range to 250km because of international laws

"The CM-400AKG was demonstrated to the public for the first time during the Zhuhai airshow last year. The YJ-12 was originally designed to be used against multiple targets including US aircraft carriers with a combat range of 500 kilometers and can be carried by various platforms such as bombers like the H-6 and JH-7, fighter jets such as the J-11B, J-15, J-16 and Su-30MKK and Type 052D destroyers. However, the range of the CM-400AKG has been reduced to 250 kilometers to meet export restrictions of the international Missile Technology Control Regime."


LOL....Your Gripen cruise missile speed is less than mach 1, even a local hunter's gun will sh.oot it down

WOW....My JF-17 cruise missile speed is a whopping mach 4, even America is afraid of it !

Better don't let NAF Thunder s.trike y.o.u this Soweto man
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jl115:
you just prove what ive said the whole time: HMS/HMSD =Applications which allow cuing of weapon systems are referred to as helmet-mounted sight and display (HMSD) or helmet-mounted sights (HMS)" dus targeting of weapons

HMD= HMDs project information similar to that of head-up displays (HUD) on an aircrew’s visor or reticle, thereby allowing him to obtain situational awareness and/or cue weapons systems to the direction his head is pointing, dus targeting plus additional info displayed on hud.
Plus i love how you left out the part where it says we created it first.(These devices were created first by South Africa, then the Soviet Union and followed by the United States)

"The first aircraft with simple HMD devices appeared for experimental purpose in the mid-1970s to aid in targeting heat seeking missiles. These rudimentary devices were better described as Helmet-Mounted Sights. Mirage F1AZ of the SAAF (South African Air Force) used a locally developed helmet-mounted sight."

Conclusion: HMD not the same as HMS

See why I said you have learning problem?

See your own source above calling the 1970s HMS an HMD at the same time.....

""
"The first aircraft with simple HMD devices appeared for experimental purpose in the mid-1970s to aid in targeting heat seeking missiles."

JF-17 has HMS/D meaning HMS plus HMD.

Then both are the same, depends on use of English language.

The HMS on a 2014 JF-17 is NOT the same old rudimentary-elementary HMS that SAAF put on Mirage jet many old year 1970 ago.

Use your head like an adult dude, complex things screw you up badly
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[size=16pt]

jl115:
KEPD.35 is a long range cruise missile, as for nuclear missiles, sweden and SA are non nuclear states dus no need for nuclear missiles.

LOL

Gripen cruise missile is far inferior to JF-17 Thunders SUPERSONIC ANTI-AIRCRAFT CARRIER MISSILE....

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20131126000062&cid=1101

JF-17 combat weapons firepower is far superior to Gripen

GAME OVER + CASE CLOSED.
.[/size]

jl115:
Good for you, used to live there to from 1998-2000 in kansas city missouri.

South Africa still a 100x better for me personally

The South African black and white doctors running away daily to America will laugh at your 'better' ANC republic

jl115:
KEPD.35 is a long range cruise missile, as for nuclear missiles, sweden and SA are non nuclear states dus no need for nuclear missiles.

LOL KEPD.35 is NOT a stealth missile like the JF-17 carries stealth missiles, Gripen is inferior.

Secondly, Gripen not able to carry nuclear missile is a big minus and makes it inferior to JF-17.

What is a Gripen user wants to launch it's nuclear missile? Like if India buys Gripen....no wonder India rejected Gripen jets.

Swedish junk of 1998 old time generation.....Gripen jet C/D
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jl115:
Please quote where i said i was an aviation enthusiast or expert.

BTW u are confusing me with the american!

Yes, I thought I was replying @MiG-23.....the guy is NOT American, if he wants to drag that with me, I will expose him. I live in America.

You could be the one masquerading as MiG-23, you have already created two different user names/monikers in one day ! LOL !

Soweto fraudsters let loose

jl115:
Please quote where i said i was an aviation enthusiast or expert.

Your source only points out that the HMS used in the jf-17 is used only for targeting: (A helmet-mounted sight (HMS) developed by Luoyang Electro-Optics Technology Development Centre of AVIC was developed in parallel with the JF-17; it was first tested on Prototype 04 in 2006. It was dubbed as EO HMS, (Electro-Optical Helmet Mounted Sight) and was first revealed to the public in 2008 at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow, where a partial mock-up was on display. The HMS tracks the pilot's head and eye movements to guide missiles towards the pilot's visual target)

BTW u are confusing me with the american!

HMS and HMD mean the same thing, do you ever learn ?

"A helmet-mounted display (HMD) is a device used in some modern aircraft, especially combat aircraft. HMDs project information similar to that of head-up displays (HUD) on an aircrew’s visor or reticle, thereby allowing him to obtain situational awareness and/or cue weapons systems to the direction his head is pointing. Applications which allow cuing of weapon systems are referred to as helmet-mounted sight and display (HMSD) or helmet-mounted sights (HMS)"
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jl115:
Was asking a honest question just wanted to know, no need to get pissed if you dont know, a simple I DONT KNOW will do.
As for the gripen missiles:Missiles:
6× AIM-9 Sidewinder (Rb.74) or IRIS-T (Rb 98)
4× AIM-120 AMRAAM (Rb.99) or MICA
4× Meteor (under development)
4× AGM-65 Maverick (Rb.75)
2× KEPD.35
2× Rbs.15F anti-ship missile
Bombs:
4× GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
2× Bk.90 cluster bomb
8× Mark 82 bombs

Thanks, you just proved Gripen weapons are inferior to JF-17.

Gripen CANNOT carry or launch long range cruise missiles, stealth missiles, nuclear missiles.

Gripen price is a $50 million junk and Swedish rip off !
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jl115:
So it only has(HM sight) witch is used for targeting?

I just posted source that is has HMS and HMD, they are the same thing with two names.

"A helmet-mounted display (HMD) is a device used in some modern aircraft, especially combat aircraft. HMDs project information similar to that of head-up displays (HUD) on an aircrew’s visor or reticle, thereby allowing him to obtain situational awareness and/or cue weapons systems to the direction his head is pointing. Applications which allow cuing of weapon systems are referred to as helmet-mounted sight and display (HMSD) or helmet-mounted sights (HMS)"

Later you will be complaining about the way I answer you, it's all about the crooked way you think and talk, I just retaliate, my nature.

You must be a clown, you were posting photos of MiG-21 to compare it to JF-17 Thunder, real comedian you are, but surely not an aviation expert enthusiast....you know next to nothing except internet copy and paste

jl115:
What HMD does the jf-17 use, cant find anything on the web with the exception that it uses a HMS(helmet mounted sight) witch is only good for targeting and nothing els really?

JF-17 has mix of about 5 different European/NATO countries and Asia. The equipment varies with customer's choice. That is what is called OPEN-ARCHITECTURE.....I thought you said you know a lot about aviation
Learn to read :

JF-17 Avionics list -

Avionics

DEEC electronic warfare suite
NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar
Night vision goggles (NVG) compatible glass cockpit
Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
Externally mounted avionics pods:
KG-300G self-protection radar jamming pod
WMD-7 day/night targeting pod
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jl115:
What HMD does the jf-17 use, cant find anything on the web with the exception that it uses a HMS(helmet mounted sight) witch is only good for targeting and nothing els really?

What cruise missile, stealth missile, or nuclear weapon does the Gripen carry ? Just short range weapons and nothing else really?
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...

[size=25pt]

NAF : Devastating Thunder JF-17 [/size]


The avionics software comprises more than one million lines of instructions, and incorporates the concept of open architecture. Instead of the military-optimised Ada programming language, the software is written using the popular C++ programming language, enabling the use of the numerous civilian programmers available.[66] The aircraft also includes a health and usage monitoring system, and automatic test equipment.[12][67] The flight control system (FCS) comprises conventional controls with stability augmentation in the yaw and roll axis and a digital fly-by-wire (FBW) system in the pitch axis. The leading edge slats/flaps and trailing edge flaps are automatically adjusted during manoeuvring to increase turning performance. The FCS of serial production aircraft reportedly have a digital quadruplex (quad-redundant) FBW system in the pitch axis and a duplex (dual-redundant) FBW system in the roll and yaw axis.

The JF-17 has a defensive aids system (DAS) composed of various integrated sub-systems. A radar warning receiver (RWR) provides data such as direction and proximity of enemy radars, and an electronic warfare (EW) suite housed in a fairing at the tip of the tail fin interferes with enemy radars. The EW suite is also linked to a Missile Approach Warning (MAW) system to defend against radar-guided missiles. The MAW system uses several optical sensors across the airframe to detect the rocket motors of missiles across a 360-degree coverage. Data from the MAW system, such as direction of inbound missiles and the time to impact, is shown on cockpit displays and the HUD. A countermeasures dispensing system releases decoy flares and chaff to help evade hostile radar and missiles. The DAS systems will also be enhanced by integration of a self-protection radar-jamming pod that will be carried externally on a hardpoint.

The first forty-two PAF production aircraft are equipped with the NRIET KLJ-7 radar, a variant of the KLJ-10 radar developed by China's Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology (NRIET) and used on the Chengdu J-10. Multiple modes can manage the surveillance and engagement of up to forty air, ground, and sea targets; the track-while-scan mode can track up to ten targets at BVR and can engage two simultaneously with radar-homing AAMs. The operation range for targets with a radar cross-section (RCS) of 5 m2 (54 sq ft) is stated to be ≥ 105 km (65 mi) in look-up mode and ≥ 85 km (53 mi) in look-down mode.[69][70] A forward looking infrared (FLIR) pod for low-level navigation and infra-red search and track (IRST) system for passive targeting can also be integrated; the JF-17 Block 2 is believed to incorporate an IRST.

A helmet-mounted sight (HMS) developed by Luoyang Electro-Optics Technology Development Centre of AVIC was developed in parallel with the JF-17; it was first tested on Prototype 04 in 2006. It was dubbed as EO HMS, (Electro-Optical Helmet Mounted Sight) and was first revealed to the public in 2008 at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow, where a partial mock-up was on display. The HMS tracks the pilot's head and eye movements to guide missiles towards the pilot's visual target. An externally carried day/night laser designator targeting pod may be integrated with the avionics to guide laser-guided bombs (LGBs).An e xtra hardpoint may be added under the starboard air intake, opposite the cannon, for such pods. To reduce the numbers of targeting pods required, the aircraft's tactical data link can transmit target data to other aircraft not equipped with targeting pods. The communication systems comprise two VHF/UHF radios; the VHF radio has the capacity for data linking for communication with ground control centres, airborne early warning and control aircraft and combat aircraft with compatible data links for network-centric warfare, and improved situation awareness.
Data from Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Length: 14.93 m (49 ft)
Wingspan: 9.45 m (31 ft, including 2 wingtip missiles)
Height: 4.72 m (15 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 24.4 m²[114] (263 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb)
Loaded weight: 9,100 kg (20,062 lb)
Useful load: 3000 kg (6600 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 12,383 kg (27,300 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Klimov RD-93
Dry thrust: 49.4 kN / 51.2 kN (11,106 lbf / 11,510 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 84.5 kN (19,000 lbf)
G-limit: +8 g / -3 g
Internal Fuel Capacity: 2,300 kg (5,130 lb)
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 1.6 (1,217.9 mph; 1,960.1 km/h)
Combat radius: 1,352 km (840 mi)
Ferry range: 3,482 km (1,880 NM)
Service ceiling: 16,920 m (55,500 ft)
Thrust/weight: 0.95
Armament

Guns: 1× 23 mm GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon or 1x 30 mm GSh-30-2
Hardpoints: 7 in total (4× under-wing, 2× wing-tip, 1× under-fuselage; pylon stations number 3, 4 and 5 are wet-plumb capable) with a capacity of 3,400 kg (7,500 lb) for external fuel and ordnance

Missiles:
Air-to-air missiles:
MAA-1 Piranha (Short-range)
AIM-9L/M (Short-range)
PL-5EII (Short-range)
PL-9C (Short-range)
PL-12 / SD-10 (Beyond visual range)
Air-to-surface missiles:
MAR-1 (Anti-radiation missile)[79]
Ra'ad ALCM (Nuclear capable Stealth Cruise missile)

Bombs:
Unguided bombs:
Mk-82 (general purpose bomb)
Mk-84 (general purpose bomb)
Matra Durandal (anti-runway bomb)
CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye (anti-armour cluster bomb)
Precision guided munitions (PGM):
GBU-10 (Laser-guided)
GBU-12 (Laser-guided)
LT-2 (Laser-guided)
H-2 (electro-optically guided)
H-4 (electro-optically guided)
LS-6 (satellite-guided glide bombs)
Satellite-guided bombs
Others:
Countermeasures (Flares, Chaff)
Up to 3 external drop tanks (2× under-wing 1,100 litres (240 imp gal; 290 US gal), 1× under-fuselage 800 litres (180 imp gal; 210 US gal)) for extended range/loitering time

Avionics

DEEC electronic warfare suite
NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar
Night vision goggles (NVG) compatible glass cockpit
Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
Externally mounted avionics pods:
KG-300G self-protection radar jamming pod
WMD-7 day/night targeting pod


[size=25pt]Nigeria's New Air Power Is This Thunder ![/size]

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Henry120:
It is the E/F, formerly N.G that is classified as 4.5 Gen, not the older C/D models.

Southies are dreamers, they have obsolete Gripen C/D with 20 year old generation radars

Reason why Brazil refused to buy the SAAF's kind of old fashioned Gripen
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Sbura:
What amuses me is that we are comparing a war-time country(Nigeria), which is most likely to acquire more military assets and strengthen security, with a peace-time country(South Africa). From what has been debated, I can conclude that war-time South Africa will/would be superior to war-time Nigeria and the whole of Africa at large. Currently, South Africa does not see the need to go all out like the Nigerian government. The issue about the JF-17 is vague, there can only be solid arguments once it is operational in the Nigerian Air Force. What surprises me is that, when @MikeCZA, @patches..... bring up the Mokopa missile, A-darta, Ground Based Umkhonto missile, Badger, Mangoose etc People jump to say "It is not in service yet", but now they are talking as if the JF-17 is in service. So, till the JF-17 is in service, then the matter of who has the strongest air force in terms of fighter capability may resume, till then this argument is baseless.

The peace-time South Africa of today is a product of the war-time Angolan Bush war needs that were identified, today's South African military is built to fight a national army relatively as strong as Cuba with USSR supplied latest and best weapons.

War-time Nigeria is being built to fight Islamic terrorists, but if the threat is relatively the level of Cuba with USSR supplied weapons, you would have seen Nigeria buying anti-aircraft missiles with 400km range and cruise missiles with 1,000 km range.

Get it?
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MiG23:
Hi all,

Just found this forum by chance and wanted to set some facts right. I'm not a Nigerian, or even an African. Never even been to Africa actually. Just an Aviation Enthusiast.

The above chart was compiled by Pakistani JF-17 Fans and they cherry pick specs when the jf-17 was still in development. The production variant specs can be found in Pakistan Aeronautical Complex's official website - http://www.pac.org.pk/jf-17

And also the latest IDEAS 2014 which was concluded just 3 days back - http://s3.postimg.org/qfq5j5d83/2014_IDEAS_JF_17_Specifications_Infoboard_Placar.jpg

Here is another link which consolidates all Official sources and lists out the specifications. It's very meticulous and technical, so might not appeal for casual Aviation fans. http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/fighterplanes/texts/articles/jf-17specifications.html
But in the end it rounds off with the Specifications, if you just want the final result.

Also, Block 3 is not even on the drawing board. And its unclear whether Nigeria will receive Block 1 or Block 2. Actually the deal hasn't even been signed yet. It's in final stages according to Pakistani officials. And the only changes to Block 2 from Block 1 are the mid-air refueling probe and some avionics improvement. JF-17, either block 1 or Block 2 has no AESA, no IRST, no HMS/HMDS,

The only fighters PAF gets these days are the cheap JF-17s(and free F-16s from U.S WoT payments and donations which stipulates Pakistani should only buy U.S hardware from the money they give) and there is a reason for that. We are basically talking about a fighter which even the main developer, China, has refused to induct in its own airforce. That doesn't inspire much confidence if you ask me. The only reason pakistan wants this fighter is because it cannot get anything else. It is basically broke. It cannot even get J-10 because the chinese demanded $45 million a pop for the fighter, and PAF cannot afford it.

Not to mention the fact that JF-17 is just a further development of the 1950's MiG-21 family. I dont know about you but I wouldn't want to go into battle in 2020 in a heavily modified 1950's MiG-21.
http://s13.postimg.org/l52243t13/grumman_super_7_sabre_II_1_big.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/3t1pinzjr/grumman_super_7_sabre_II_2_big.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/u2ms1glh3/grumman_super_7_sabre_II_3_big.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/6ux36d22f/jf_17_prototype_1.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/rivql3nav/super_7_jf_17_1.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/ha39f9z93/super_7_jf_17_2.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/miyad5ho7/mig_21_jf_17_family.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/aq0h8xl87/jf_17_mig_21.jpg


My personal opinion, Nigeria would be better off with J-10s or MiG-29Ms or even Su-30s. If they are selecting JF-17 against all these options, it means there is some other factors involved.. one factor Nigeria's Airforce doesn't have much money to spend or basically there is corruption involved in this deal.

Regards,

-23

You are more likely a South African.

Your written English and composition of language is very similar to the pattern of we Africans, when a non-African writes so long an English passage, I will tell the difference because I live in an English speaking country where all nationalities/tribes/tongues/races from across the world live and we can tell the difference from how they write and speak English language.

I suspect you are a fake, you are very very likely a South African making false claims of Nationality here.

Now a few answers for you as reply to all the errors and ignorance you displayed in your aircraft analysis.

You call your self an aviation enthusiast and you don't know that most jet fighters of today evolved from older models

MiG-21 evolved to MiG-23, MiG-23 evolved to MiG 25 with extra one tail added, MiG-25 evolved into MiG-29.

Draken evolved into Viggen, Viggen evolved into Gripen.

Only a fool of a pilot will assume that since MiG-21 evolved into MiG-29, when he fights MiG-29 in air combat, it is same as fighting a MiG-21, that pilot will just make his wife a widow and his children fatherless like a fool

JF-17 Thunder is NOT a simple jet and NOT close to F-7 Airguard.

JF-17 engine is Russian, it's avionics are a mix of West European and Chinese, it's weapons are a mix of West European and Chinese.

Italian, French, Russian, American, Chinese, British avionics-weapons-technology are mixed into JF-17 Thunder.

If anyone says JF-17 is junk, then the Europeans are junk manufacturers and the Gripen too is Junk

J-10 Dragon is almost same as JF-17 in capability, the JF-17 was built from the ready made J-10 engineering works, thus the Pakistanis got many things free or cheap from Chinese technology transfer, that is the secret of the cheap price of JF-17 Thunder.

Next, the Chinese will not buy JF-17 because it is same basic engineering works as the J-10, simple common sense.

Why does South Africa not import Israeli MRAPs? You produce yours with about equal capabilities, simple common sense.

I think common sense is one thing you seem to lack, mister MiG-23....your name is an obsolete jet fighter and so is your brain

Thank you sir.

jl115:
Just getting back to th jf-17 vs gripen topic:

I really do think for the money the jf-17 is a pretty good fighter with good air-to-air capability, decent air-to-ground capability and excellent anti ship capability definitely making it a 4th gen aircraft , but it cant be compared to the gripen. what makes the gripen special is not because its the fastest(can reach mach 2.3 though),the most manoeuvrable,our carries the most payload, what makes its special is its ground braking software, making the gripen extremely easy to operate and enabling it to engage multiple targets at once including air and ground targets at the same time.

Too many errors in your above comment. Let me pick one, the Gripen maneuverability is very poor for a $50 million jet.

I have posted videos of it here and compared it with Algerian Su-30 Flanker, no South African dared to argue when both videos were posted here side by side in comparison. The greatest weaknesses of Gripen jet are the poor maneuverability for air to air dogfight and poor combat radius/range.

Sweden's just ripping people off with that price tag, same way their Volvo cars perform less than Toyota cars but the Swedish car cost much more than the Japanese....also add the bad fuel economy of Volvo cars and the Volvo engine inside the Gripen.

Sweden's SAAB manufacturer had to bribe South African politicians with millions of dollars to manipulate them to buy Gripen jets, a jet that buyers need to be bribed with money to purchase, must be a problem loaded jet and surely over-priced

For JF-17 Vs Gripen, @Henry posted a chart to prove JF-17 Block I is eqaul to Gripen, and @agaugust posted detailed descriptions to prove why the JF-17 Block 2 beats the Gripen, so if any South African wants to challenge Nigerians, post your own detailed sources and stop grumbling like a labouring worker not paid salary for the past 12 months
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jl115:
76mm rooikat, 105mm rooikat, 120mm rooikat?

The only Rooikat in SANDF sevice is 76mm gun. The other 105mm has one single unit produces and project rejected by SANDF.


Proved : only Rooikat in SANDF sevice is 76mm gun, go fool the kids in your village with your imaginary fairy tales by moonlight
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jl115:
Wouldnt say its a copy of the italian gun but its definitely based on the the oto melara witch is a naval gun,dus more powerful than your average 76mm as for the rooikat in picture that is definitely not a 76mm much thicker and longer than the 76mm.

And as for it not shooting straight, any citation to back that up,because as far as i know the rooikat 76 was pretty accurate! and could penetrate t62 armour at 1km, although it was never intended to be a tank destroyer.

Dude, welcome as a newcomer to this forum Mr.South African.

Sorry I cannot repeat my past comments for every new South African that joins this thread, I have over 6,000 comments posted here in over 2 years, so I will not waste my time to please you. Consult the archives.

I posted proof that Rooikat 76mm gun is a COPY of Italian Oto Melara, South Africa copied it with Italian permission and changed the name as you always do to create false claims of 'MADE IS SOUTH AFRICA WEAPONS'

Then you guys turn around and call the Chinese copy cats, what about South African copies of Israeli and European weapons?

The Rooikat gun from the South African inside source I posted here many times, CANNOT shoot straight with accuracy because it is copied from a naval gun that is meant to shoot at big ships on open wide oceans and not small tanks in clutter filled lands and cities.

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patches689:
Cuban and MPLA army = 150 000
SADF = 4000 (according to you)

How did that turn out?

That lie above is according to you.

The real truth is below :

SADF = 4,000 frontline + 18,000 border line rear guard

UNITA & FNLA = approx 100,000 frontline

You learnt your lesson of numbers/quantity from Seleka that had ancient weapons and still defeated SANDF and your modern DENEL products /weapons in less than 18 hours only
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