₦airaland Forum

@ Poster,

That story was told by Jesus himself, and it wasn't even talking about Jesus dying in the cross.

Could you please provide "Biblical Evidence" that Jesus was the last Messenger?

[quote author=**osisi link=topic=246365.msg3614047#msg3614047 date=1237396926]I understand Usman dan fodio and his men were on horse backs sharing chewing gum and singing choruses from Sokoto to Ibadan.
make una take small small dey lie na
we no be childrens [/quote]There was ISLAM from Sokoto to Ibadan since before Usman dan Fodio was born.

Unfortunately, the charged atmosphere engendered by the Sept. 11 tragedy has prompted media opinions, based on some Qur'anic verses that are misquoted and taken out of context, that the Qur'an promotes violence.
Cal Thomas, a columnist for the Washington [DC] Times, did just this in his Oct. 3rd article "Can we be fooled twice?" For example, he presents only part of 5:85: "among those most hostile to the Believers you will find Jews and Pagans. . . " One wonders why he does not complete it: ". . . and nearest among them in love to the Believers you will find those who say: 'We are Christians,' because among them you find men devoted to learning, men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant."

Thomas quotes part of 9:5: ". . . then fight and slay the Pagans wherever find them. Seize them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them." However, when read in its full context, verses 1-5, the meaning is quite different.

Islam does not allow or sanctify the killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. According to the Qur'an and Hadith (sayings of Prophet Muhammad) life is sacrosanct.

We read in the Qur'an: ". . . Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except through justice and the law. He orders this so that you may acquire wisdom" (6:151) and, "Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for a just cause. If anyone is killed unjustly, We allow his heir (to seek justice) but do not allow him to exceed bounds when it comes to taking life, for he is helped (by the law)" (17:33). According to the Qur'an, killing a person unjustly is the same as killing all of humanity, and saving a person is the same as saving all humanity. (See 5:32.)

Other critics of Islam found: "Kill them wherever you catch them. . . " (2:191), ". . . But if they turn away, seize them and kill them wherever you find them. (In any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks." (4:89), and similar verses.

When placed within their textual and historical contexts, however, their true meanings emerge:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors. Kill them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. But do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there. If they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression and justice and faith in Allah prevail. If they cease, engage in hostility only against those who practice oppression. There is the law of equality of for the prohibited months, and so for all things prohibited. If any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress likewise against him. But be conscious of Allah and know that He is with those who restrain themselves" (2:190-194).

The other verses read: "They hope that you will reject faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they). So do not take friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). If they become renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them. (In any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks, except for those who join a group with whom you have a (peace) treaty or those who approach you with hearts calling upon them to be neutral. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you and they would have fought you. So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah has opened no way for you (to fight them). You will find others who wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people. Every time they are sent back to temptation they succumb to it. If they do not withdraw from you or give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and kill them wherever you find them. In their case, We have provided you with a clear argument against them" (4:89-91).

Nowhere do these verses give general permission to kill any one. They were revealed to Prophet Muhammad at the time when the nonbelievers were attacking Makkah's Muslims and threatening those in Madinah. In contemporary jargon we may say that as the Muslims were subject to constant terrorist attacks on Madinah, Allah allowed them to defend themselves. These verses do not allow Muslims to engage in terrorism; rather, they are warnings against terrorism, but they also contain clear calls for restraint and care.

Religious texts, if not read within their proper textual and historical contexts, are easily manipulated and distorted. Let us look at the Bible and apply the standards applied above.

In Deuteronomy, the fifth book of the Torah, Moses shares this message from God as the Israelites prepare to enter the Promised Land: "I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the long-haired heads of the enemy." (Deut. 32:42)

"When the Lord, your God, brings you into the land that you are entering to possess, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the Lord, your God, delivers them before you and you defeat them, destroy them utterly. Make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them" (Deuteronomy 7:1-2).

"When your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying 'Let us go and serve other gods,' . . . you shall kill him, your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God. . . " (Deuteronomy 13: 6-10)

"When you approach a city to fight it, offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, all the people found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, besiege it. When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, kill all the men in it. Take as booty only the women, children, animals, and all that is in the city, all its spoils. Use the spoils of your enemies which the Lord your God has given you. . . Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. Do not leave alive anything that breathes" (Deuteronomy 20:10-17).

"Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But spare for yourselves all virgin maidens" (Numbers 31:17-18).

"I will send my terror in front of you. . . you shall utterly demolish them and break their pillars in pieces" (Exodus 23: 23-24, 27).

The New Testament attributes the following statements to Jesus:

"Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Mathew 10:34-35).

"I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27).

There are dozens of other verses that, if taken out from their historical context, seem to favor violence. Some violent Muslim groups misuse the Qur'anic verses just as various violent Jewish and Christian groups have used them to justify their causes. The Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. The Nazis used them against Jews. Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims, and Zionists regularly use them against Palestinians. David Koresh, Jim Jones, and Baruch Goldstein all relied on religious texts to justify their violence.

Muslims believe in all Prophets sent by Allah, and so do not misuse or misinterpret the religious texts of other faiths in order to defame them. Even in recent times, Muslims have and are facing genocidal campaigns in Bosnia, Kosova, Chechnia, Kashmir, and PalestineÑbut they have not questioned Judaism and Christianity. Such a spirit needs to be reciprocated.

@ Poster

The person that asks these questions is either lying to be a Muslim, or he is not an active Muslim, or he is a Nursery school student. Because these are questions that can be answered even by non-Muslims (who learned about Islam).

1. Why cannot the Muslim males and females pray together, like other religions in a family unit?
Muslims are always encouraged to pray with their family, it is a very good practice in Islam

2. Why cannot a man pray with his wife and daughters?
A Man can always pray with his wife and daughters

3. Why did Allah not have direct dialogues with our messenger of Islam, just like when God directly talked with the Prophets in the Bible?
Almighty Allah communicates with Prophet Muhammad directly in the Heaven, please refer to Isra and Mi'iraj below

4. Why weren't there any witness to the monologues between Angel Gabriel and Muhammad, unlike Bible prophets, where there were so many witnesses?
Several Hadiths have told us some accounts where Angel Gabriel visits Prophet Muhammad and his Companions, in the form of human being, for example, the following Hadith

5. Why did the Hadith say Jesus Christ would come again on final Judgment Day; but if Muhammad is the last prophet, why didn't Allah send him instead?
Muslims believe in all the Prophets sent by God, and He told us about them in the Qur'an, and our faith is not full until we believe with all True Prophets He sent. Jesus is an important figure in Islam, He is the Son of the Virgin Mary, the Giver of Glad Tidings, the Prophet of God, and the Restorer of Faith. As we believe, Jesus is not coming with a new religion or new revelation, but rather, he is coming to restore Christianity back to the most purest Monotheism, that is Al Islam.

6. Why did Muhammad supposedly, go to Jerusalem on a donkey to rise to Heaven, instead of going to Mecca – Islam's holiest, or Medina-Islam’s second holiest, and why are there no witnesses?
For Full account please check here

7. Why cannot Muslims marry in a mosque, like others, blessed in their sacred places?
The last wedding I attended was in a Masjid, though only male are allowed

8. Why are muslims always so afraid to ask questions of their quran? What are they scared of? why are they so quick to threaten others who ask, delete threads and harrass those who innocently wish to be informed?
Do you have any question? Give an example of where someone is threatened because they asked.

9. Why can i not personally know allah? Why cannot i talk directly to him? why can i only see his back in jaanat? does he not love me?
Praying 5 times daily is a direct link to Almighty Allah, for best network connection, perform the Night Prayers.

davidylan:
auwal, what has this to do with Livni and the elections?

I was answering the question asked by dayokanu.

By the way, you were the person that made the topic into religious one.

@ Poster

Most Christian Ladies do wear cross on their necks "even the prostitutes" but that does not make them purified, right?

If I am right on the above, then you should also agree that, Muslim Lady that does not wear Hijab may be more purified than the one that wears the Hijab. This is a matter of "Faith" only Allah knows how purified one's heart is.

Were they wearing Niqab (i.e. covering their faces as well)? If their faces are covered then most likely they are trying to hide themselves from people that knew them, because they know what they are doing may tarnish their image in their community. Those women may then be regarded as "Hypocrites".

May Almighty Allah guide them to the rightful way, Amin.

@ All ARABS and MUSLIMS haters here.

Would you please keep your hatred for even a second and look at the reality?

Oh my God!

It seems you don't even agree that you "HATE" all Muslims and Arabs.

If you do, please clearly state it here saying you hate all Muslims and Arabs. I bet you cannot and can never say that, but down there in your hearts you "HATE" all Muslims and Arabs.

Hate is a very loose weapon, you can never win with hate.

ElRazur:
For the record, Christians can actually leave with Muslims. It is part of the Christianity teachings to be tolerance towards others. Jesus showed this by dealing with the unbelievers in a civil way.

On the other hand, teaching of Islam do not advocate tolerance, it instead preaches the death of Jews, homosexuals and non-believers. It recommends they should be killed and their land, women and money taken period.

And before anybody come running at me, I am an atheist. I also happened to live in Kano for at least good three years or so. During which I witnessed religion violence, killings and what not, so I know what am talking about.

Unfortunately, the charged atmosphere engendered by the Sept. 11 tragedy has prompted media opinions, based on some Qur'anic verses that are misquoted and taken out of context, that the Qur'an promotes violence.

Cal Thomas, a columnist for the Washington [DC] Times, did just this in his Oct. 3rd article "Can we be fooled twice?" For example, he presents only part of 5:85: "among those most hostile to the Believers you will find Jews and Pagans. . . " One wonders why he does not complete it: ". . . and nearest among them in love to the Believers you will find those who say: 'We are Christians,' because among them you find men devoted to learning, men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant."

Thomas quotes part of 9:5: ". . . then fight and slay the Pagans wherever find them. Seize them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them." However, when read in its full context, verses 1-5, the meaning is quite different.

Islam does not allow or sanctify the killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. According to the Qur'an and Hadith (sayings of Prophet Muhammad) life is sacrosanct.

We read in the Qur'an: ". . . Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except through justice and the law. He orders this so that you may acquire wisdom" (6:151) and, "Do not take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for a just cause. If anyone is killed unjustly, We allow his heir (to seek justice) but do not allow him to exceed bounds when it comes to taking life, for he is helped (by the law)" (17:33). According to the Qur'an, killing a person unjustly is the same as killing all of humanity, and saving a person is the same as saving all humanity. (See 5:32.)

Other critics of Islam found: "Kill them wherever you catch them. . . " (2:191), ". . . But if they turn away, seize them and kill them wherever you find them. (In any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks." (4:89), and similar verses.

When placed within their textual and historical contexts, however, their true meanings emerge:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors. Kill them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out, for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. But do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there. If they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression and justice and faith in Allah prevail. If they cease, engage in hostility only against those who practice oppression. There is the law of equality of for the prohibited months, and so for all things prohibited. If any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress likewise against him. But be conscious of Allah and know that He is with those who restrain themselves" (2:190-194).

The other verses read: "They hope that you will reject faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they). So do not take friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). If they become renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them. (In any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks, except for those who join a group with whom you have a (peace) treaty or those who approach you with hearts calling upon them to be neutral. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you and they would have fought you. So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah has opened no way for you (to fight them). You will find others who wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people. Every time they are sent back to temptation they succumb to it. If they do not withdraw from you or give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and kill them wherever you find them. In their case, We have provided you with a clear argument against them" (4:89-91).

Nowhere do these verses give general permission to kill any one. They were revealed to Prophet Muhammad at the time when the nonbelievers were attacking Makkah's Muslims and threatening those in Madinah. In contemporary jargon we may say that as the Muslims were subject to constant terrorist attacks on Madinah, Allah allowed them to defend themselves. These verses do not allow Muslims to engage in terrorism; rather, they are warnings against terrorism, but they also contain clear calls for restraint and care.

Religious texts, if not read within their proper textual and historical contexts, are easily manipulated and distorted. Let us look at the Bible and apply the standards applied above.

In Deuteronomy, the fifth book of the Torah, Moses shares this message from God as the Israelites prepare to enter the Promised Land: "I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the long-haired heads of the enemy." (Deut. 32:42)

"When the Lord, your God, brings you into the land that you are entering to possess, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the Lord, your God, delivers them before you and you defeat them, destroy them utterly. Make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them" (Deuteronomy 7:1-2).

"When your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying 'Let us go and serve other gods,' . . . you shall kill him, your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God. . . " (Deuteronomy 13: 6-10)

"When you approach a city to fight it, offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, all the people found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, besiege it. When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, kill all the men in it. Take as booty only the women, children, animals, and all that is in the city, all its spoils. Use the spoils of your enemies which the Lord your God has given you. . . Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. Do not leave alive anything that breathes" (Deuteronomy 20:10-17).

"Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But spare for yourselves all virgin maidens" (Numbers 31:17-18).

"I will send my terror in front of you. . . you shall utterly demolish them and break their pillars in pieces" (Exodus 23: 23-24, 27).

The New Testament attributes the following statements to Jesus:

"Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Mathew 10:34-35).

"I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27).

There are dozens of other verses that, if taken out from their historical context, seem to favor violence. Some violent Muslim groups misuse the Qur'anic verses just as various violent Jewish and Christian groups have used them to justify their causes. The Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. The Nazis used them against Jews. Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims, and Zionists regularly use them against Palestinians. David Koresh, Jim Jones, and Baruch Goldstein all relied on religious texts to justify their violence.

Muslims believe in all Prophets sent by Allah, and so do not misuse or misinterpret the religious texts of other faiths in order to defame them. Even in recent times, Muslims have and are facing genocidal campaigns in Bosnia, Kosova, Chechnia, Kashmir, and PalestineÑbut they have not questioned Judaism and Christianity. Such a spirit needs to be reciprocated.

Terrorism is the war of the poor, and War is the terrorism of the rich.

The invasion of Iraq was a bandit act, an act of blatant state terrorism, demonstrating absolute contempt for the concept of international law. The invasion was an arbitrary military action inspired by a series of lies upon lies and gross manipulation of the media and therefore of the public; an act intended to consolidate American military and economic control of the Middle East masquerading -- as a last resort -- all other justifications having failed to justify themselves -- as liberation. A formidable assertion of military force responsible for the death and mutilation of thousands and thousands of innocent people.

So the answer to your question "Why some Muslims are so willing to kill in the name of Islam"? is simple.

Simply because they are not "Rightly Guided" or "Rightly Educated".

Refer to my last post before this one.

There are dozens of other verses that, if taken out from their historical context, seem to favor violence. Some violent Muslim groups misuse the Qur'anic verses just as various violent Jewish and Christian groups have used them to justify their causes. The Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. The Nazis used them against Jews. Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims, and Zionists regularly use them against Palestinians. David Koresh, Jim Jones, and Baruch Goldstein all relied on religious texts to justify their violence.

Muslims believe in all Prophets sent by Allah, and so do not misuse or misinterpret the religious texts of other faiths in order to defame them. Even in recent times, Muslims have and are facing genocidal campaigns in Bosnia, Kosova, Chechnia, Kashmir, and Palestine, but they have not questioned Judaism and Christianity. Such a spirit needs to be reciprocated.

The New Testament attributes the following statements to Jesus:

"Do not think that I have come to send peace on Earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Mathew 10:34-35).

"I say to you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. As for my enemies who do not want me to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence" (Luke 19:26-27).

Since you cannot find the answer yourself let me paste for you here.

Religious texts, if not read within their proper textual and historical contexts, are easily manipulated and distorted. Let us look at the Bible and apply the standards applied above.

In Deuteronomy, the fifth book of the Torah, Moses shares this message from God as the Israelites prepare to enter the Promised Land: "I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the long-haired heads of the enemy." (Deut. 32:42)

"When the Lord, your God, brings you into the land that you are entering to possess, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the Lord, your God, delivers them before you and you defeat them, destroy them utterly. Make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them" (Deuteronomy 7:1-2).

"When your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying 'Let us go and serve other gods,' . . . you shall kill him, your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God. . . " (Deuteronomy 13: 6-10)

"When you approach a city to fight it, offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, all the people found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, besiege it. When the Lord your God gives it into your hand, kill all the men in it. Take as booty only the women, children, animals, and all that is in the city, all its spoils. Use the spoils of your enemies which the Lord your God has given you. . . Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. Do not leave alive anything that breathes" (Deuteronomy 20:10-17).

"Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But spare for yourselves all virgin maidens" (Numbers 31:17-18).

"I will send my terror in front of you. . . you shall utterly demolish them and break their pillars in pieces" (Exodus 23: 23-24, 27).

dayokanu:
Auwal, WHy are moslems so willing to kill everyone

http://www.twf.org/Library/Violence.html

The Link has your answer.

LONDON – For a nation shaped by an overtly Christian heritage, Britain has apparently become a difficult place to be overtly Christian.

The conservative press bewails a steady erosion of Christian values. A member of Parliament has called for debate on "systematic and institutional discrimination toward Christians." Even former Prime Minister Tony Blair recently let slip how aides would brusquely suppress any instinct he had to bring his faith into public view.

Now, a succession of ordinary Christians are finding this rule applies to them, too.

Earlier this month, Caroline Petrie, a nurse, was suspended for offering to pray for a patient. The case echoed another incident in which social worker Naphtali Chondol was fired for giving a Bible to a client.

Elsewhere, a teen was prohibited from wearing a chastity ring in school in a case redolent of British Airways's move to forbid a check-in worker, Nadia Eweida, from wearing a cross. A university Christian group was banned for requiring that members attest to their belief in God. The requirement was considered discriminatory.

"There's going to be lots more cases like this," says Paul Diamond, a barrister specializing in religious liberties cases who represented both Ms. Petrie and Ms. Eweida. "Christians are a soft target – it's easy to be nasty to them."

He says Christians are a victim of an overcorrection. Once, the Church of England and its mores predominated. Now, the pendulum has swung decisively in a secular direction.

"It's important that the state is neutral [but] the issue is slightly more complex because religion goes with culture and values and therefore we are saying we will have no values in the public domain," he adds.

The Christian complaint is generally twofold: that other faiths are treated more favorably and that the dilution of Christian values in a soup of secularism has eroded the core morality of the nation.

Nonsense, say secularists, who argue that Christians do not have a monopoly on morality. With church congregations generally in decline and Britain a patchwork of different faiths (there are some 2 million Muslims, for example), they argue that reining in expressions of faith are a necessary compromise in a multicultural society.

Philosopher A.C. Grayling says that ever since 9/11, a "bad-tempered quarrel" has broken out between those of Christian, Muslim, and other faiths and those who think religion has more influence on modern society than it should. He says that to avoid culture wars, the public space cannot be seen to favor one creed over another.

"It's in the interest of all religious communities that the public domain should remain neutral," Professor Grayling says.

Christians like Eweida say this is "political correctness gone mad." In her case, which she intends to appeal later this year, British Airways was allowed to decide which accessories of faith were acceptable and which were not.

The outcome? A more lenient approach to Muslims and Sikhs than toward Christians, she says.

"They deemed it mandatory for Muslims to wear hijab, but not for Christians to wear a cross," she says. "What right have they got to tell me as an individual how to manifest and proclaim my personal faith? I was brought up in Egypt, and Christians there are allowed to wear crosses. Why should I feel ashamed to hide my faith and my cross because I believe in the word of God?"

The Church of England has begun weighing in on the debate. The Archbishop of York, John Sentamu, said that asking someone to leave their faith at the door of their workplace was "akin to asking them to remove their skin color before coming into the office."

Yet gloomy intimations of Christian persecution may be overblown. The church remains part of the British establishment, and enjoys formidable privileges. Britain, for example, is the only mature democracy where bishops are elevated, unelected, to a legislative chamber, the House of Lords.

The established church plays a key role in education, running thousands of schools and dictating admissions policy.

It is this privileged status of the established church that may be backfiring on individual Christians – a general wariness that the majority creed shouldn't get any more favors than it already has.

"We have an established church, and so people feel that Christianity is privileged and therefore oppressive and people see it more negatively," says Theo Hobson, a theologian. "It might be healthier if we had a secular state in which religion was more tolerated."

Christians should also be mindful of how they would feel if roles were reversed, says Simon Barrow, codirector of the theological think tank Ekklesia. How would a Christian feel if, for example, a nurse offered them an Islamic prayer?

"People are nervous about overenthusiastic public expression of belief of any kind," Mr. Barrow says. "There is a great desire for people not to tread on one another's toes."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090226/ts_csm/ocomplain;_ylt=AnUU33J8vgC1Yq3jkNm8bj07Xs8F

Note: Don't think on what is happening, but WHERE this is happening.

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. – A jury convicted a Florida priest on Monday of stealing from his church, but the panel found that he embezzled far less than the $488,000 prosecutors charged.

The Rev. Francis Guinan, 66, was found guilty of second-degree grand theft of more than $20,000 but less than $100,000 after less than four hours of jury deliberations.

Prosecutors claimed the clergyman from St. Vincent Ferrer Catholic Church in Delray Beach used the money to fund a lavish lifestyle that included trips to the Bahamas and Las Vegas, jewelry and home furniture.

Guinan faces up to 15 years in prison and will remain jailed until his March 25 sentencing. He had been charged with first-degree grand theft, which carried a sentence of up to 30 years.

Guinan was accused of taking the money during the 19 months after he became pastor in September 2003.

The priest that preceded Guinan at the church pleaded guilty to first-degree grand theft last month. The Rev. John Skehan, 81, who had been at the church for 40 years, is set to be sentenced next month for taking $370,000.

Prosecutors told jurors during closing arguments that Guinan took money from a "slush fund," had records shredded and deceived his parishioners' trust.

Guinan "stole from the community he was appointed to protect," prosecutor Preston Mighdoll said.

Defense attorney Richard Barlow told jurors that Guinan's actions may have been morally wrong, but he did nothing illegal.

"The diocese, in their own rules , gave the priest the unlimited discretion, without defining it, without restricting it, as to how you spend" the church's money, Barlow said.

Guinan testified last week that he believed a priest could spend as much as $50,000 on any one item without reporting it to the diocese.

Guinan said it was "a small compensation" for his service, but he acknowledged, "When you see it all together in one package, it looks terrible. I will agree with that."

Prosecutors claimed Guinan used church money on seven trips to Las Vegas, three trips to the Bahamas, trips around Florida and to Ireland, luxury hotels and personal credit card bills.

Church auditors believe the figure stolen over the years by the priests was in the millions.

---

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090223/ap_on_re_us/church_theft;_ylt=AkCf4LH.kPoTP7kId4KJjkw7Xs8F

Miami Christian Piano Teacher Kills Kids, Wife, Self

MIAMI – Pablo Amador was a "regular dad" who made music with his children and shared his gift teaching kids to play piano, a man known for a friendly wave and lending a hand to jump-start a car. And those who knew him say they can't understand why he apparently shot and killed his two daughters, wife and then himself.

TV satellite trucks surrounded the gray-trimmed, white ranch home Wednesday as authorities carried out the family, whom police identified as Pablo Josue Amador, 53; his 45-year-old wife, Maria; and their youngest daughters, Prescilla and Rosa, 14 and 13.

A teenage son escaped the shootings uninjured, calling 911 at 5:58 a.m. as he fled the home, police said. Those who saw him regularly along the quiet, modest street of homes could only wonder what happened.

"It confuses me," said 48-year-old Thelma Vallecillo, whose 13-year-old daughter took piano lessons at the house. "I don't understand."

A biography of Amador posted on a Web site advertising his piano classes says he began studying music in Havana and later earned a degree in the U.S. The U.S. Copyright Office lists 36 compositions by him and a set of photographs. The songs he wrote, many in Spanish, included titles such as "Beautiful Boy" and "Rose of Love," as well as numerous religious selections.

Sarait Betancourt, a 44-year-old school bus driver who lives near the family, said Amador was a Cuban immigrant who has been giving her two sons, ages 9 and 10, piano lessons at his home once a week since 2006.

"He was a marvelous person and a tremendous professor," she said. "People would enter the house, and you just breathed peace."

Amador's two slain daughters, his 16-year-old son, and a college-age daughter all excelled at piano and performed together at church and home as Los Galileos, Betancourt said. Amador said on his Web site that he produced 13 CDs of his children performing.

Authorities have not confirmed that there is a fourth sibling, nor said where the son is now.

Gregorio Montesino, who lives nearby, said music could always be heard coming from the house and children often played in its in-ground pool. He said Amador always waved to greet him.

Amador also said on his Web site that he sang tenor with the Greater Miami Opera chorus and was a soloist at Kendall United Methodist Church, though officials at both places weren't able to confirm that information.

Christina Ruiz, a 23-year-old social work student who lives next to the family, described him as a "regular dad" who helped her grandmother jump-start her car several times but who was known to complain when he was bothered by noise or work being done on her house.

Neighbors said Amador also worked at a music store. His wife had nursing degrees and officials at The Miami Project to Cure Paralysis confirmed she was the director of education there, teaching about spinal cord injuries and answering calls from patients looking for the right doctor.

___

Associated Press writers Suzette Laboy, Antonio Gonzalez, Ileana Morales, Kelli Kennedy and Damian Grass contributed to this report.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090226/ap_on_re_us/florida_four_dead

This is to show you people how easy it is to turn any crime into religious one.
You better stop your nonsense hatred against Islam.

Bastage:
The satellite has been launched in spite of Iranian Islam. Not because of it.

You are lying. The satellite has been launched in spite of "Sanctions" by the US and Ally against the Islamic Republic of Iran.

davidylan:
Stop deluding urself. they cant be going to the same place by two divergent routes.

I am not deluding myself, for you and I most witness this day, and you will be ashame of yourself.

Good Night!

davidylan:
go back to hiroshima again . . . Japan is one of the world's top three economies thanks to the US.

If that is what makes Japan great today, I wonder how many Nuclear Bombs China got from the US that is also great now. Man, please stop fooling yourself here, US killed thousands of people and you are here saying it is what makes Japan one of the world's top three economies today.

If that is the case, how many Nukes will US use in Nigeria in order to make it a developed nation?

davidylan:
Yeah i'll go to heaven as a Child of God . . .saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. you go wherever you wish.

Heaven? I wonder how Jesus is going to receive people like you in Heaven.

Let me tell you, better you get ready, for what you think is not what you are going to see in Heaven,

For you will see Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, etc, all in one place.

If you think you are fighting Islam because of Jesus, then Jesus will be the first to nominate you into Hell Fire.

davidylan:
we are not looking to kill you.

I can see, you are looking to help us in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Gaza, and you helped the people of Hiroshima in Japan as well. You are of course not Killers, you are helpers, you help people whereever you sent your troops, you don't kill women and children.

MR. DAVID, you just say

davidylan:
this exposes your stark ignorance . . . al-banna was the founder of the muslim brotherhood that spawned HAMAS

Mister, you claimed something was not in the HAMAS charter, now i showed you and all you did was try to run rings around it by singing another tune? Hypocrite. Who cares whether you live or die in the cause of allah? Just make sure you only kill ur brethren. We'll bury u all and move on with life like you never existed.

Typical Hypocrite!
Nawa for u ooo!

davidylan:
here is the difference - we are not looking to kill you. On the flipside you are actively seeking to force us to convert or kill us.

forcing you to convert or I kill you?

It is not allowed, I would have hope you die a Kafir (non-Muslim). Just to see for yourself what you have been shunning.

davidylan:
this exposes your stark ignorance . . . al-banna was the founder of the muslim brotherhood that spawned HAMAS

Mister, you claimed something was not in the HAMAS charter, now i showed you and all you did was try to run rings around it by singing another tune? Hypocrite. Who cares whether you live or die in the cause of allah? Just make sure you only kill ur brethren. We'll bury u all and move on with life like you never existed.

We know you don't care whether we live or die in the cause of Allah.
As well as we don't care whether you live or die in the case of life of this world alone.

davidylan:
The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)

18 August 1988

Paragraph 2 - Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).

Is this a Hadith or what? Who is Imam Hassan al-Banna?

This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.

They have an enemy to fight, if they did not fight the Zionists, who will fight for them? You? Do you think Palestine will be existing today if they stopped their resistance? They are fighting those who are willing to fight them.

Note:
1. The "struggle" against the jews is NOT political but religious.
2. It is simply a step that will be followed by other steps i.e. conquering Europe and America.

Say it a Million times, but this is a mere political struggle, (maybe you can put it with Political Islam) which is vastly disputed on whether or not Islam should be attached with Politics, etc.

Article Eight:
Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes.

If one did not die for the sake of Allah, then for whose sake will he die?
If you are fooled by the term Jihad, even what I am doing now on Nairaland is a Jihad. (Judge that).

Article Eleven:
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Muslim generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Muslim generations till Judgement Day?

This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Muslims have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Muslims consecrated these lands to Muslim generations till the Day of Judgement.

Spain will be next after Israel!

And why didn't you quote this place?

This [norm] has prevailed since the commanders of the Muslim armies completed the conquest of Syria and Iraq, and they asked the Caliph of Muslims, ‘Umar Ibn al-Khattab, for his view of the conquered land, whether it should be partitioned between the troops or left in the
possession of its population, or otherwise.

Following discussions and consultations between the Caliph of Islam, ‘Umar Ibn al-Khattab, and the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, be peace and prayer upon him, they decided that the land should remain in the hands of its owners to benefit from it and from its wealth; but the control of the land and the land itself ought to be endowed as a Waqf [in perpetuity] for all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection.

Now to mohammad:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim).

Auwal the inverterate liar . . . what do i earn?

The Hadith you quoted is referring to the war that will be conducted with Imam Mahadi and Prophet Isa fighting the Illuminatis/Zionists/Anti-Christs, the fact that Zionism exists since the time of Prophet Musa, the term Zion was not used to refer to the then Zionists, as such, they are only identified as Jews, but in reality, the Hadith means the Present Zionists.

Now quote my lie.

Big MUGU!

davidylan:
and you live in the west? hypocrite.

This is not hypocracy.

It will be hypocracy if he lives in the west and support it on anything they do, good or bad, like you!
But become against it as soon as he leaves the west.

Let me do it

davidylan:
Lets make a deal:
1. I will post the section of the HAMAS charter where this is taken from
2. I will post the very words of Mohammad from where this inspiration is taken . . .

What will you give if i do the above 2? Be honest.

which is why i am happy netanyahu is going to be in charge. I am waiting with bated breath from weapons of mass destruction to land on Iran . . . then and only then will you murderous thugs of allah sit up and see reason.

Yeah . . . say that again.

I am waiting for you to post.

I will challenge you.

This is my 700th post on NL.

dayokanu:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020472.php

One reason why the Arab extremist should be crushed. around 3-4 minutes lie the thinking of the Arab Moslems

You will only be duped a million times if you keep using those kinds of websites as your reference to Islam. If you are really sincere on what Islam is really about, then you need to use genuine Islamic websites as your reference.

If you are blindly searching anywhere to find lies and extreme hatred on Islam, then keep it on.

Let me ask you this questions?

1. To your post, why would Arabs represents the whole Muslims on anything bad that happen?
2. Have you ever searched for anything good that the Arab Muslims are/have been doing?
3. Why will you never give credit to the Arab/Muslim Scientists, Philosophers, Chemists, Physicists, etc?
4. Do you think that how you think about Islam is the right way to think about it?
5. Do you think that Muslims in the whole world are outrightly thinking the same way that 0.01% of the other people that called themselves Muslims think?
6. Why have you never thought to yourself that it is generally agreed in Islam that whoever killed an Innocent person willingly is no more a Muslim?

davidylan:
We know you dont want us to talk to you about Egypt . . . it exposes your hypocrisy and lets us know clearly that the continous cry that Israel BUT NOT EGYPT be forced to open her borders has absolutely nothing to do with economics but easier access for suicide bombers and terrorists. If Egypt is afraid that shld it open its borders all Gazans will flock to it then why do you think the jews have no legitimate right to express that fear considering HAMAS constitution says islam will not rest until jews are obliterated? Why are you bothered about "humanitarian problems" in Egypt BUT NOT in Israel which is far smaller (Israel is not even up to the size of the empty Sinai), has less resources (has no oil or gas) and has a much smaller population to support refugees?

Your Evil war against Islam is not going any where, you said "Hamas Constitution says Islam will not rest until Jews are obliterated". This is an outright lie, I have posted their Charter, and no where did they say "Islam will not rest until Jews are obliterated" no where in that Charter.

Israel controls Gaza's sea borders so as to prevent the shipping of Iranian missiles to her borders!

Exactly as I said, Iranian missiles can be taken to Gaza by Air if they so wished, and I hope they will.

Your own post reveals your islamic agenda for murder . . . shame on you.

Islam has no agenda for Murder, Islam is always against Murder and Evil acts like the one done by Israel in Gaza, and the one done by US in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Stupid Zionist!

He is Mad
A good Muslim cannot do this, even a Christian or Jew, or Atheist, in as much as he is mad, he can do this.

This is a Christian man, he killed 2 of his children.

[size=14pt]Christian Father killed children then himself[/size]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090220/tuk-father-killed-children-then-himself-6323e80.html

A father killed himself and his two young children after a bitter split from their mother, an inquest has ruled. Skip related content

John Gittins, acting coroner for North Wales Central, recorded a verdict of suicide for karate expert Brian Philcox, 53, and verdicts of unlawful killing for his daughter Amy, seven, and three-year-old son Owen.

Llandudno Magistrates' Court was told Philcox took the children in June last year, drugged them with chloroform from a padded envelope and attached a vacuum cleaner pipe to the exhaust of his Land Rover in an isolated spot near Llanrwst in North Wales.

The trio were found dead, poisoned by carbon monoxide fumes, sitting next to each other on the back seat of Philcox's car.

The children's mother, Evelyn McAuliffe, 38, Philcox's estranged wife, wept as details of the deaths were read.

Offering his condolences, the coroner told her: "When Brian Philcox took Amy and Owen from you he thought they would be lost to you forever - but he failed.

"The short lives they had were imprinted on your heart and they will endure with you. They will be part of you every single moment of every single day."

Ms McAuliffe had begun divorce proceedings against Philcox by June 13 last year when he took the children during an access day away.

He knew we would be unable to see them on Father's Day - the following day - and hatched a plan to kill them.

He is outright MAD!
This is Insane!

Any Good Muslim will not do this.