₦airaland Forum

logicboy: You mad? Why are you trying to outdo my answers?

On a serious note, it's good to see another answer from a similar but different perspective. Thanks for your answer. I also learnt something

LoL
The inquirer need to get info from as many perspectives as possible. To gain complete understanding. You are doing a very good job,I find it unnecessary to comment when you are here.

Chrisbenogor: @cryexx
That's the answer to most of your questions.

Just a thought, 97 percent of this worlds water is salt water, two percent is trapped in icebergs, the last one percent is what we can drink. Do you really think this planet was designed for you?

I don't know,I find this post very witty.
@cyrexx
Beauty is subjective. All the flowers you talked about are ugly to some people. Have you thought about why those flowers brightly coloured? To attract insects(bees,butterflies),simple. They need insects for the process of pollination. Brightly coloured petals attract them. Those without colours have evolved another way of pollination, from self pollination to wind dispersal. All this just to survive or they will become extinct.
Mind you, millions of species have since gone extinct.

Double post.

cyrexx: pls i need an atheist to answer this question clearly and logically, without strong language that abuses religion. i'm personally beginning to lose faith in mainstream religious teachings (christianity and islam)but i have some questions that nags at my soul that i need anwsers before i finally cross over to atheism
1.The complexity of our planet points to a probable deliberate designer who not only created our universe with carefully thought details, but sustains it today. e.g. the distance from the sun to the earth is perfect, if its shorter or longer, there would be chaos. could the universe have caused itself to be?
2.our brain is another complex machine that baffles me.it simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. our brain takes in all the colors and objects we see, the temperature around us, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your computer keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands. The human brain processes more than a million messages a second. Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. could your brain have created itself. is there not a genius designer who designed it
3. the universe had a start, according to scientists. but something cannot just start itself, e.g. a car engine cant just start except someone started it or programmed it to start at certain time.logically,somebody must have started the universe. and who is he. does anybody know.
4. the universe operates by laws of nature, as every reasonable scientists will agree. if there is a law, is there not a lawmaker who formulated those laws.

i need a sensible and unemotional answers these questions, if anybody knows. thanks in advance

1)Most people make this mistake, thinking this planet,solar system was made specifically for us. No,its not. This planet was at a reasonable distance, of reasonable size and our specific form of life was able to survive on it. If it was made for us, then all planets must have a type of life it can support made specifically for it . Venus,for instance is regarded as earth twin, it cannot support life. Mars, rovers have landed looking for life,none is yet to be found. Distant planets which have earth's life supporting attributes are being looked at but for now,we cannot properly explore them. If we find life, this will put to rest,notions that life on earth was put there instead of it as a random occurence.

2) Man being superior in intellect to other animals also 'logically' presume there must be something greater in intellect than us. This is false. When no other creatures seem to match us, we assume God put us in charge of them to do as we please. Do you know that the difference between us and primates is that they have around 5% more DNA than we do. Complexity of the brain is something that evolved over time. The brain and eye cannot see ultraviolet,some animals(insects) can. We cannot hear some frequencies,some animals can. Why? Because its not particularly needed to survive,even detrimental to our survival. Tho, because we make advanced computers,it may look as if since our brain is even more efficient than a computer, then someone must have created it. This is not necessary. Look at the evolutionary tree,as we move,our brain develops and gain more complexity in order to SURVIVE. As a medical student, I can tell you the brain is a f**ked up place even in its complexity. A simple trick can turn the brain in all its glory to a confused neuron firing nut case.


3) Yes, it did. But to label that unknown(for now),God, is illogical. Once upon a time, the sun was worshipped. Why? It was believed to be singly the source of life. Now we know better. Once it was proven incorrect, that there are billions and billions of other stars, that explanation became obsolete. Once we discover what happened beyond the big bang, some people will still claim wherever that knowledge stops is where God is. And it will continue. Just Ask GALILEO. Why does it have to a HE? Why not a equation or principle or even SHE? Are they not grand and elegant enough?


4)All those laws are random occurrences in a sense. Cause and effect really. Tho, I agree that its a mystery why the universe even obeys laws of mathematics and most laws of physics but that still does not prove the existence of all-powerful,omni-everything God whose sole preoccupation is to play human beings on chess boards. Who is as anthropomorphic as the next human.
Hope this answers your questions. I asked same.

pazienza: The atheist/agnostic intelligensia on this forum are doing a good job,there are many undecided souls out there that you guys are helping to reach logical conclusion with you guys sound arguements.

I was once a pseudo- xtian,but you guys helped me to complete the transition to your team.

This is one of the reasons I started this thread. You are Free to live your life as you see fit. No God to punish your simplest mistake,no more fairytales,no more bullSH.IT

vedaxcool: @ op well good for you, Islam lost nothing by ur conversion if there had been such conversion, for all it is worth, there are many individuals Islam can do with out. The prophet pbuh predicted that a time will come when people will openly deny God, and certainly we live in that time, I remain clear, when I read such conversion "stories" it remains their lost, as Allah gains nothing from ur belief or disbelief in him! Seeing the atheist jubilant makes laugh it validates my thoughts towards them that they suffer serious insecurity in their disbelief and are looking for a herd to make their irrational claim as normal as in we plenty wey disbelief in God! Alhamdulilah the disbelievers seek to extinguish the light of Allah, yet Allah continue to perfect his life.

I hear. You just confirmed it. I lose nothing either but I gained. You won't understand.

logicboy: Nobody should mind this coward called Enigma. He/she can not defend his religion and so, he either derails the thread or chooses to cheerlead his religous companions, no matter how stupid the comments are

I think I will do that.

If only,Mr sweetnecta,if only you could bring a proof from anywhere except the Quran. I cannot verify the authenticity of Quran written more than a thousand years ago.
If only.........

Enigma: Whether the "exchange of words" continues or not does not bother me.

Interesting, now you consider it "unnecessary" . . . .

Again, if what we are suppose to talk about deviates into something else unproductive,it becomes unnecessary. I v clarified my position,so have you. I see no reason for this deviation to continue. We are not even talking about existence or in existence of God and truth-ness or false-ness of religion this thread is all about.

Enigma: I will post what I choose to post. You will just have to live with that.

If you peddle tosh as "intellectual discussion" and pass it off as part of Christianity then you have an issue with my post --- otherwise you just seem to be demonstrating my point about atheists, especially evangelical atheists, and obtuseness.

Its true,public forum and all.
But I m neither a ex- christian nor have I attacked your christians scriptures. I didn't attack your post because you argued against those 'tosh,ex christian intellectuals'. I took offence because of the inherent insults in it. It affected me too.
Now that we v clarified our positions, I do not expect this unnecessary exchange of words to continue.

Enigma: You say someone is "deluded" and in the same breath claim not to come/not to "insult" anybody.

OK: from your responses to both of my posts, if you think you understand my point, I am certain that you are seriously deluded.

Haha, I put the 'deluded' and 'since' parts there for a reason. You are going to take offence at that, I knew that.
If you took offence,then you must realise I will also take offence at insults.
You do not have any interest in showing your 'intellectual muscle', then please do not post. Until someone explicitly attack your christian doctrines,keep your peace. Don't come here to talk down on others because I simply do not agree with you!

Enigma: I don't remember having engaged in discussion with you in the past. I don't care whether (you think) you were, are, have become an atheist or whatever.

I don't care to show you or anyone my "intellectual muscle"; I am not interested in convincing you or the evangelical atheists here of the existence of God.

I know that atheists, especially evangelical atheists, are generally obtuse; so to spell it out for you, I am more concerned with some instances where people peddling utter tosh, claiming it to be "intellectual discussion", pass such nonsense off as part of Christianity.

If you still don't understand that; tough. I won't be surprised anyway.

Hahaha.......
I do not need your convincing. If you think I don't understand what you wrote, you are deluded. That's the problem. You think you are superior. If that's what you think,you shouldn't have commented, from your post you said nothing about the 'tosh' you claimed they peddled.
I will not get into a slugfest with you. I didn't come here to insult people neither have I insulted anybody since. I expect same courtesy from everybody. Understand?
Btw, I don't intend to get into a 'discussion' with you. Its unnecessary.

amosy007: uhmm i wnt agree with u on this.. People have being worshipin God be Jesus and muhamed...

Exactly. People have been believing in a God for support only. It is easy to fall into that trap. The reasons(rainfall,drought,diseases,childbirth and so on) those primitive people held on to God was because they didn't know better. We do now. Therefore those reasons should be discarded.

^i went thru this phase.
But a God should be able to show himself to people he allegedly created. We have absolutely NO evidence that he exist. Air,oxygen and things like that CAN be tested for. He cannot.

AngelEbi: @poster, when i die as a Christian n discover dat Christianity was just a ruse, i will be proud to say that i had noting to lose bt if u die n discover dat u were wrong, what would u do?

Hehehe,if I discover Islam was a ruse(it is), I will say I told you so. Hehehe
But I am fully convinced the scenario will never come up. See, most religions control you using the Pascal wager,drilling that fear into you. Just imagine if the wrong side of the coin......... B.U.L.L.Poo
Let it be known, I come from a home that doesn't joke with education. If I made it to being a doctor, I won't be the first neither the second. We have all sorts of highly educated and still Islamic scholars in my family. The doc told me not to ask questions about certain things. That somethings are better left alone. Obviously,he had thought about it too,just fearful of what might happen if he probes further. Any questions you ask after this point will be greeted with a certain look of scorn and disgust. It basically tells you are blaspheming,stfu.
Why should I not ask questions about something that so deeply affects my past,present and future. In fact my everyday life? It was the start of a journey. Things happened,realizations were made. I arrived here.

Enigma: I agree with the red bolded. Both risibly and annoyingly they peddle utter tosh as "intellectual discussion" just because most of the audience is not sufficiently informed to be able to challenge and/or expose their nonsense. I generally ignore them and laugh at them privately and usually only get involved when some nonsense is passed off or represented as part of Christianity either ignorantly or, with the evangelical atheists in particular, fraudulently.

And you that is 'sufficiently informed' and able to 'challenge' why don't you 'expose' our 'nonsense'.
Why don't you show your 'intellectual muscle'? I can assure if you can do that convincingly(defend your God), most people here(I talk for myself) won't be atheist.
But you can't . You can only defend when aspects of your bible is attacked,the unverifiable bible is the only thing you can defend.

nakedall: OP - your best bet is to worship IFA - Whitman don embraced IFA, even RUSSIANS don embraced IFA. they all visiting Osun State for lesson and blessing.

THE GREAT OYO EMPIRE NO GO DIE!

I hear, I hear.

dekung: How on earth did you come about this noble knowledge/expose of yours. Were you present at the meeting where Satan wnts 100% of the world's population? If you wont mind I will require at least 3 different references (citations) mind you the bible is just one reference so get tio wrk and lets have other refs.

Don't wait on it. Its not coming. If they can even bring one proven fact,not many will be atheist. They keep referring to holy books as if they were there when it was written or they witnessed the events. This is why Islam don't have many atheist. They don't even pretend that science can prove their religion. The ones that can be 'proven' using vague verses are pushed forward o, don't mistake but they don't even try to prove all. Its either you accept whatever your alfa teach(btw,he can barely speak arabic) or prepare for hell.
My mother's questions was instructive. She had asked the mallam if all the christians will go to hell. The answer was short and quick. 'Yes,'he thundered,'they will all burn in hell.' More than one billion and half people will burn in hell for a mistake that was not their own making. He continued,' Infact hell will be begging for more people,it will be for eternity.' I was terrified,a look at my mother showed her mouth agape and afraid. Amazingly,she started giving thanks to God for making her one of the 'fortunate' ones. I did too then. I laugh about it now.

buzugee: fail, the catholic church compiled the bible but black israelite men wrote the bible. when antiochus epiphanes broke into and took over israel, he stole all the manuscripts in the temple. then the greek empire got took over by the roman empire. the roman empire took the scrolls and compiled it into the bible. all under the auspices of the lord of course. the lord works in mysterious ways. the israelites were slacking and he let them get invaded by heathens and the heathens compiled the scrolls into the bible and now the heathens are now convicted because they now have the convenants which only the israelites had. the lord let them convict themselves and now the whole world has the bible and no one can say they dont have the convenant

atheists 0
theists 23

LOL

?

davidylan: Its an anonymous forum so pls shove the unecessary "friend" request.

How is my science the wrong one? No self respecting scientist throws out what?

Throws out unscientific arguments like you do. Arguments that hold no proof,no verifiable facts and so on. Don't pretend to be a scientist,you are not. Take a cue from logicboy who isn't a scientist but still managed to disprove religion anyway.
Btw, I don't mean any friend request or things like that. I meant I do not pretend to agree with you or try to change you as a 'friend' if that's what you are implying.

davidylan: I tend to post less than 3 yrs ago - i have a job now and this place is not as stimulating as it once was. Its populated now by empty barrels who shout really loud but convey nothing.

I have no idea what you mean when you say my belief evolved over time. That's news to me. Seems you're making things up as you go along.

I made nothing up. I do not intend to be your friend so I m not patronizing you.
Btw, your science is the wrong one. No self respecting scientist throws out.........

^am I suppose to reply or something?
They can't be all wrong. If anything,your bible has a absolute chance of being wrong than me.

moxamet: @ OP

Being in the medical profession aswell and going through a similar phase in my life i fully empathize with you.....

I think faith has 3 different stages

1. Indoctrination
2. De-doctrination
3. Personal Truth

Interestingly majority of people live out their entire lives in the "Indoctrinated" stage. Now there is nothing wrong with that as long as they let others develop their personal truth.. but sadly our present religious culture strongly discourages such scrutiny.

As regards to God however.. i think it is like Being in Love.. Sometimes you're in love sometimes you're not, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist existence..

I think you are very interesting Avicenna, and i would like to know u more if u dnt mind..what's ur email...?

Inasmuch as I would have love to meet other like minded people,it is not possible now. As you said,you are already in the medical profession,you are on your feet. I am not.
I m not confusing you for an atheist but in a way we are very much like minded. If you still remain on Nairaland, I WILL CONTACT YOU.

davidylan: hmm pls do you even know what science is? I detest people who run here trying to hide behind the fig leaf of pseudo-science. Can you scientifically justify your own unbelief WITHOUT copying from the thoughts of your atheist gods?

I v seen some of your posts,it seems your belief evolved over time. You of 3years ago is not you now. Am I right?

seguun: @op
You have not addressed my questions.

Unless you can bring forth proof apart from the Quran. The Quranic explanation is way too vague. Any guessing man can arrive at that. Semantically or even philosophically.

buzugee: i aint try to keep the dude glued to religion, i am trying to keep him glued to his sanity you gotta be insane to think man erupted from primordial soup. noit like i blame the man though. if i had to pray 5 times a day and then worship some stone in mecca, i would probably lose my mind too.

This is unnecessary. The reason I left religion and God is not because of that. Haven't I made it clear enough?

Joagbaje: You've not even known God to start with. Religion , yes but God is not in religion. .

Okay, I hear. Until God decides to educate me,we dey dere. I used quotes like this before. I m laughing about it now.

fellis: You don't even know what the supernatural experiences pertain to and you are sure they can be explained without recourse to the supernatural.
Are you mustay? I think you might be mustay. Are you him?

?

fellis: What Irony? I don't need a couple of scientific theories to believe that God exists, I have had supernatural manifestations that convinced me.
Those are enough.

See,that's where we disagree. 'Supernatural manifestations are not real'. I m not calling you a liar because of your supernatural encounters but those things can be explained without recourse to the supernatural.
Its not enough for me.

Sweetnecta: @Op [Avicenna]: Allah says I am your Lord, worship me.
Muhammad [as] said worship Allah alone in Islam as in there is no God but God Alone and I Muhammad [as] is His last Messenger and Prophet in one to you and all human being.

My dear sister deols said in her post to you: "the same medicine that is driving you to spiritual ignorance has driven many {including those whose blood hated Islam the europeans and even jews] into Islam.


I say to you here and now that it is Islam, your studying Quran as a child that has made you capable to dabble into pure science. Check your environment among your family bloodlines and friends to notice what God has blessed you in secularism, yet will you be ungrateful?


Quran is touched upon here and you should watch these and I will not enter this post and my hand of friendship will ever be extended.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjFw1bv6p3M&feature=related



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKXqZE5eyK4&feature=relmfu

Like I said earlier I am a regular poster. The way you disprove boko haram's assertions those time,I find them amazing. So I follow your posts. You may not even know this. I didn't know you from this thread.
The way you advised me is like a brother infact tho,I don't know you personally,I will say it was fatherly.
I said it earlier that I have a lot of respect for the billion people that follow Islam. If you noticed,I have not disparaged the Quran in any way. I didn't quote from it to disprove it neither did I insult the prophet. I must thank Islam for some things. Even some of it moral teachings(not belief) I will incorporate into my guiding principles.
But there's a mistake. I didn't dump religion because I can't practise it. Oh, I practised. The very notion of God(Allah) is what I am against. So,therefore since I lack belief in God itself, I do not share in the belief of religions.
My realizations were profound enough to override every religious verse,teachings, juma'at preachings I have heard over more than two decades. I appreciate everything you said but I am done. I will never go back.

fellis: There could be billions of scientific postulates, my point is that Science doesn't prove there is no creator, so why do you believe something which has no Scientific proof?

[b][/b]
The Irony,the Irony.

aukasa: @ op why is your conscience disturbing you, you can be anything its up to yourself, why the broadcast.Medical studies or not, you are just a student millions of proffessors of medicine believe in God, so don't think you are superior because you are a medical student. I pray you realize your folly and return to God who cannot be disputed.

Read my posts, I never claimed superiority. Saying that I am studying med was to give background to where I am coming from. You could also have said I shouldn't mention Islam!