₦airaland Forum

tgirl1986: Then there will always be religion because man can never know everything..the Universe is endless..we will continue to learn..but from Who?

Ofcourse,there will always be gullible people following exploitative religions. The aim is to reduce it to barest minimum.
There was never a 'who'. Man teaches his child what he knew, child teaches descendants....... man was teaching and learning from himself. We are discovering what has always being there. There is no need for another unknown entity to impart knowledge to us.

tgirl1986: So the concept of spirituality where did it come from?? At what point in human existence did man become concious of spirituality?? Wether juju or whatever higher power.. because i know d animals we evovled from do not have issues with spirituality.

I once watched a documentary about homo sapiens and neanderthals battle for survival. They actually made sure to show the root of spirituality(they may be wrong afterall they were not present), a very plausible explanation.
You see, when man is helpless in a situation and somehow he escape that situation, whatever exotic on him at that time becomes a God(my understanding of the doc). Even in the middle of battle,the guy was asking a wooden object the right path to escape to. Needless to say, he died while protecting his wife AND the wooden object.
Everyone gets a feeling of other worlds, the seeming purposelessness of this life is a major cause of 'spirituality'. Life is so short and meaningless that man assume it must be a phase. That a higher power must have created them ......... And you have religion and spirituality to explain things/phenomena unknown. A con artist hears about this- magic is invented.

mkmyers45: And you are convinced there is no evidence of real juju experiences that can held as proof?

Yes until proven otherwise. I will remain a skeptic. But please do not think I v never encountered spirituality before, I have, they do not work.
I can paralyse you( with my medical knowledge) and claim you are under spiritual attack. Once I 'cure' you, you are my slave for life. That's the experience people hold as proof. If not for our lack of equipment in hospitals to carry out adequate testing for all types of conditions and diseases,these superstitions would have disappeared long ago.

cyber999: @ alexleo and all other blind religionists



aren't you tired of using Pascal's Wager which states that "God can't be proved. But if God exists, the believer gains everything (heaven) and the unbeliever loses everything (hell). If God doesn't exist, the believer loses nothing and the unbeliever gains nothing. There is therefore everything to gain and nothing to lose by believing in God."

listen all of you, this argument, first formulated by French philosopher Blaise Pascal, is sheer intimidation. It is not a case for a god's existence: it is an argument for belief, based on irrational fear. With this kind of reasoning we should simply pick the religion with the worst hell.

It is not true that the believer loses nothing. We diminish this life by preferring the myth of an afterlife, and we sacrifice honesty to the maintenance of a lie. Religion demands time, energy and money, draining valuable human resources from the improvement of this world. Religious conformity, a tool of tyrants, is a threat to freedom.

Nor is it true that the unbeliever gains nothing. Rejecting religion can be a positive liberating experience, gaining perspective and freedom of inquiry. Freethinkers have always been in the forefront of social and moral progress.

What kind of person would eternally torment an honest doubter? If their god is so unjust, then theists are in as much danger as atheists. Perhaps god will get a perverted thrill from changing his mind and damning everyone, believers and unbelievers alike. Or, inverting the gamble, perhaps god will only save those who have enough courage not to believe!

Pascal was a Catholic and assumed that the existence of god meant the Christian God. However, the Islamic Allah might be the true god, which turns Pascal's wager into a riskier gamble than intended.

In any case, a belief in a deity based on fear is not a belief that produces admiration. It does not follow that such a being deserves to be worshipped.

Thumbs up, nicely put.
What religionists fail to grasp is that pascal's wager is all about probabilities. It is not as overly simplistic as blaise pascal thought it up. I once used this same argument to assure myself I was on the right path. Believe me, this Pascal wager is what's keeping some religionists from abandoning religion. But the way you put it here just gave me new firepower. I intend to utilise this method soon.

Juju(or every spirituality, tho depends on your definition of spirituality) does not exist. This people play on you weakness to think something exotic/intimidating must be potent/real. The aye ta charm people keep screaming all the time(from nollywood to streets) is completely fake. They give you a fake demonstration with the local gun with no bullets. If you find your self in a shoot out and it 'worked' the bullets MISSED you. Unfortunately, if you sense this, you pass it off as the potency of the charm. Cognitive bias.
As for the herbs, some contain exactly what a doctor will prescribe for you. I was shocked when I learnt this. So much for local herbs. The trick is done by keeping the 'special' leaf secret. So you will think, the leaf came from another dimension or some shit like that.
It gets really bad that even foreign religions(as practiced here) propagates such nonsense. Everything that happens to you is deliberately caused by some unseen force. WTF??!
If a person is bullying,manipulating me secretly, I will know that someone tangible is to be dealt with. Not by praying to some nonexistent entity to send down fire or some disease on the person.
Spirituality does not exist.

@op
There is no need for the 'may', God does not exist.

It seems there is a gross Ignorance of evolution in this forum. Evolution does not attempt to explain the origin of life. What it accurately and logically explained is the ORIGIN OF SPECIES(which include man). I think this arises from the erroneous notion that man was the first thing to walk the planet.
Origin of life and universe is another field entirely.

@master_1
I agree with you. Tho, God was never 'alive' anyway.
One piece of advice, if you don't mind, most religions have separate notion of God. Falling into a trap of giving characters to God the religion don't agree with is a common mistake. Just read and research more. Next time, be sure to clearly state you are referring to the general notion of God or else, religionists will bring their usual obfuscating argument.

larytz: Moderator,how do I do that cuz I'm new here and I'm not In naija. And I'm using bb?

Go to the appropriate section. At the top or bottom of the page, you will see a series of numbers ending with 'create new topic'. Click on it and. ........

Charcoal black jesus or buddha or muhammad or moses no go fine for picture.
Wait,what do all of them have in common? Middle east of. White people.

AlvinPlantinga: It is possible to show with argumentation that the existence of God is highly unlikely.Absolute Certainty is not a prerequisite for proving the truth or falsehood of a claim.

Yes, you are correct. Its very unlikely. But still,to some people, absolute certainty is required. I was referring to those people. Until, we have completely, without any iota of doubt, disprove all gods, I hold the position for science reasons.( Mind you, I am not talking about religious Gods, those ones are frauds, I completely disbelieve in their existence).

2good: very true. We reason in the same direction except the atheist is a little bit to the extreme

Most atheists hold that view. Since its not possible to disprove the existence of a God( whether particle,equation or even a indifferent conscious being),you cannot scientifically completely discard the possibility.
Atheism covers all of the distinctions. That's why I am one. If you ignore the distinctions, they are basically almost the same. (All of the distinctions disagree with the religious Gods)

musKeeto: And by the world's system of giving tags to everything, that makes you an agnostic theist...

Na jus possibility o. That's the problem, every distinction no matter how subtle, people must have a word for it. I still maintain my atheism. Some may think I'm confused about their meanings but I'm not the type to sweat irrelevant distinction.

Left to me, I don't really see much difference. There are subtle distinction tho. I m a freethinker too but I still accept the possibility of a God( not the religious version anyway).
All these atheists,agnostic and so on, I believe are in same boat. Different but still very similar. The little distinctions notwithstanding.

vedaxcool: You seem to have left Islam for ignorance lol! as david has really battered your profane banter here . . . And to think being an atheist really opened ur eyes yeah right maybe to the fact that you are a very ignorant man who needs classes on logical reasoning no insults intended.

Ignorance? Well, it depends on what you mean by that. I don't care.
None taken. We just disagree.

Purist: True. But if found, the "God particle" could help explain how the universe came to be. The discovery would change our present worldview, literally.



FALSE. Unless you're 14 years old. The LHC only began operation in 2008. As I said, keep your fingers crossed.

No wonder, he throws insults and abuses around like some angry teenager.

davidylan: Do YOU understand it? Asking for a science section to do what there? What do you plan to contribute? A few buzz words here and there?

I understand enough.
I specialize in the medical sciences(basic and clinical). There is a lot to contribute.
Health section is not as exciting or vast as a science section could be.

davidylan: So why have you been bothering us with CERN all day? Where is the evidence showing how man appeared?



How can you "lead me" when you also confess to be just as ignorantly stupid? It never ceases to amaze me how these stup[i]i[/i]d morons come here bleating about science only to admit they know absolutely nothing of what they brag about.

Again you mistake, I don't post for you.
You were the one trolling asking questions you can easily get the answers from experts all over the world on the internet.
I don't intend to lead. This is not a religion. I am opening eyes. Just how people here did for me.

Purist: Well, nothing concrete at the moment. But they are getting quite close to finding that elusive "God particle", which may very well turn out to be one of the biggest discoveries of the century. One of the engineers at CERN recently said that the particle may be discovered in a matter of months. Keep your fingers crossed.

Yes, the God particle. We need a science section around here. To think some people can do a simple research.

CERN has nothing to do with origin of man. Stop confusing yourself. It is a nuclear research facility. For particle physics.
If you want to know more, google is your friend. Get balanced views all over the internet.
I am not a physicist. So my understanding of particle physics is limited. But , its still good enough to get the basic ideas and theories of this field. Get your facts from the experts all over the world. ON YOUR COMPUTER.
I refuse to lead you. Its your journey.

davidylan: daft. Show us the evidence here dude. I'm tired of the circular reasoning you idiots resort to when you are asked to provide evidence of your baseless claims.

Look here dumbo, the idea that all universities need to do is "teach" evolution so others can carry out projects on it is bull. Those carrying out the research are doing so where? In the very same universities even you know are not spending any money looking into the bottomless pit that is evolution.

Why cant you show us the groundbreaking research you've been bleating about? Why telling us to go research it? Try by giving us just one pls...

Before I got convinced to take this position, I don't take links seriously,I still don't . I know it is preferable for the inquirer to discover it themselves. Nothing you say here will force me to change my no links position.
If you think I post my argument solely for you, you are sadly mistaken. This is why I'm not affected by your insults.
It has gotten to the point where you usually ask same questions over and over again even if every atheist on this forum answer them as accurately as possible.

davidylan: your post is a lot of words but very little said. America has practically given up on government-sponsored space research because after 60 yrs of trying, we still arent any closer to whether we have aliens in space, water on mars or how we virtually appeared out of thin air to land on just one out of hundreds of planets out there. Epic fail!
and what exactly has CERN achieved that has brought us any closer to figuring out how we came to be? Why cant you provide evidence when asked rather than the cowardly approach of asking others to "research" (the refuge of the clueless).

Huh the rover testing for life on mars has found exactly what? Epic fail.

? 'Out of thin air' 'what has CERN achieved?' are you kidding me?
Dude,you seriously have comprehension problems.
I rarely click on links here so I won't provide links. Anybody that wants to acquire knowledge should be ready to search for it. If you can log on to Nairaland, it will take you less than a minute to google up results.

davidylan: and why exactly do you think america abandoned space research if it is as promising as you say it is? What groundbreaking research has CERN come up with to improve our knowledge of how the earth came about by random chaos?

How exactly do you think voyagers will find something in space worth researching if they cant even get there?

Absurd.

Abeg,read my post properly before replying.
$$$ is the hindrance. America has not abandoned its space research. What it abandoned was a CERN-like project because of $$$ again. Don't look down on CERN,I am ashamed my country can not even mount a research like that if they wanted to. Check out the Nobel prize winners(when working with CERN) and the nobel laureates working on it. It will do you well to research on their groundbreaking discoveries. Most are even kept away from the public. Afterall,it is a nuclear facility.
One rover was equipped with instrument to test for life on mars. Some will remain travelling till after 2020 and beyond. Please just do the research.
As for your insults,everyone know the kind of person you are. I refuse to get in a mudfight with you.

davidylan: 1. Evolution has not been proven, please post the groundbreaking scientific peer-reviewed paper that showed this for the first time. Secondly, how many universities are getting NIH grants to study evolution? Pls post them here.

2. Creationism is not a science but a faith, no one is requesting grants to study it.

The above post i just replied to was a testament in stupidity to be honest.

Evolution have not been proven? Uh! If denial suits you,by all means keep living in it.
Universities cannot invest billions in evolution. Maybe the way I phrased it misled you. All they need to do is teach it and let undergraduate biologists or doctorate candidates carry out projects and thesis on it. Groundbreaking research? We are in a digital age,information at your fingertips.

Hm, most creationists won't agree with that. Afterall,they want it taught in a science class.

davidylan: Should the fact that America just retired its last space shuttle in a huge scaling down on space exploration also tell us something? You all seem to be stuck in the 1980s despite all the nonsensical bluster about "science".

Haha, only America funds research abi? The CERN LHC project has little to do with America. This is after America abandoned its own research on it. They had even built infrastructures halfway.
As for space exploration, it is expensive(putting it mildly). When those voyagers sent to explore space find something worth risking travelling to,don't be surprised at the speed it will be revived.

davidylan: Oh dear. On which planet do you live on? Try sending in an NIH R01 grant to study evolution and see if you get funded in 200 yrs.
sorry, most of US tax dollars is going largely to research that has next to immediate medical benefits.

Evolution have already been proved. Why would anybody still invest billions in that except universities? But still, its easier to get that grant to research evolution than creationism!

jmoore: So, apes are your cousins? You seem to have little knowledge of the evolutionist. Evolutionists call the so-called first common ancestors of men and apes “ Australopithecus ” which means “South African ape". So, I am not right to say that Richard Dawkins is a child of an ape, to suit you "south african ape" to be precise.



uncaused cause is a fallacy in logic. They knew they will never reach a conclusion if they keep following caused cause hence the "uncaused cause"



God in my mind? whatever you say.

I see, you seem to have a problem with sharing an ancestor with a lowly,inferior ape. You know some white men still believe something like that about you. That's beside the point. I'm sure you won't have a problem with it if its changed to primates.

I never agreed with the uncaused cause. I just gave that example for you not to assume. The 'may' in the sentence was the clue. Its religious people that hold on to that notion of first cause(God).

jmoore: Is evolution an invention? That humans came from ape sounds like an invention to you? That's the most foolish invention if it is one



That's why I wonder how the logic of atheists work?

Billions of dollars being sunk into the discovery of what happened before the big bang? That's a waste, reminds me of funds that some government have invested in finding aliens from other planets.

If you had read my post well you will see you will never reach a point from a scientific view. Assuming "a" caused big b@ng, what caused "a"? If "b" caused "a" that caused big b@ng, what caused "b"?. If "c" caused "b" that caused "a" which caused big b@ng, what caused "c"? The question will continue to go on and on till you die and your great grand children come and go and still the question continues to expand.


Science cannot explain God because science only works in the physical realm.

Atheists cannot define God because they do not know who God is. You cannot define what you don't know!!!!

Mr jmoore,continue to jump around completely misunderstanding my argument.
Science is vast. The scientists I was talking about were the physicists , not biologists. Again, you will never learn. Wasn't it a few posts ago that it was pointed out to you that we did not come from apes? We just share a COMMON ANCESTOR.
Waste of money indeed. I hope both of us will be alive, even on Nairaland to witness the success of those missions. That those highly advanced government with loads of global responsibilities deem it necessary to explore space should tell you something.
Don't assume. We may discover after the big bang that there is a uncaused cause and perfectly explainable infact. Will you then agree that something as 'inelegant' as a mathematical equation is God?
Your knowing God is just that , in your mind.

Pastor AIO: Lol! Billions of dollars are being sunk into the pockets of pastors too.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha
Pastor, I no wan laugh like this again.

@cyrexx
I didn't just wake up and become an atheist. No. It was a journey from theism, agnosticism to atheism. Nairaland merely opened my eyes. My research and the knowledge I have before did not come from Nairaland. I wish you well on your journey.

jmoore: why is it still unknown? looks like their brain ran out of fuel?

Seriously,dude. 'Their brain ran out of fuel'?
Its amusing really. It is your kind that benefits when scientists dedicate the whole of their lives inventing technologies to explore things unknown. Do not insult them. If you don't know, there are billions of dollars being sunk into the discovery of what happened before the big bang. When we finally get the answer(s), you will still mock them and bring forth another story to justify God.
I have no respect for your type either.

....

@cyrexx
The origin of species is what evolution and adaptation explains, this is without regard to intelligent designer.
The origin of life is what abiogenesis explains also without regard to a intelligent designer.(research this for reasons)
The origin of the universe is what the big b.a.n.g explains.
Beyond the big bang is what scientists are yet to be able. to explore. This is an unknown. It is not God.