₦airaland Forum

Man. U for Final. You need to beat that yeye chelsea, they too get mouth.


Long live Arsenal

@stimulus

@jeshua

But i thought you said you have tried Christianity before, this things you mix up are things that you can ask from just kids in my church back home and they will give you answers. It is clear you tried to decieve me that you were a Christian-you know nothing about what you were saying only trying to raise objections to monistic ideas you don't know anything about. But Jesus Christ is ineluctable, you meet him alive to idea make a decision or meet Him when you die at the judgement sit to recieve his Judgement. I still love you though and I know you lied in the other thread now about "Islams guarantee of salvation" but the Scripture says, all liars shall have their part in hell, only christ Jesus can help you now. It is your game, play your cards well, it will determine you destiny.

Honestly, I weep for your soul. So you thought that I have been deceiving you about my reversion, well if you dont believe, thats your problem and not mine. How many of your doctrines have I laid to rest? My reversion is justifiable. On salvation in Islam, a liar will think that everybody is a liar.

You know babs very well when it comes to debate or argument, i believe in proofs, evidences, facts or whatever. By God's grace, the religious thread or debate will resume soon and all your allegations or claims will be sorted out, trust me for that.

Good day.

@mustay


Salam. Sorry for the defeat but the humiliation has just started o. We (gunners) will disgrace you on Sunday and Man U. will trample on you at F.A final. Why not leave this yeye chelsea and join mukina and I at Arsenal. You have not received any beating, in fact, its just starting.

@nossycheeks

Oya extension of handshake, you will be my new e-wife no 8 after babyosis.


All arguments/debates suspended till further notice

@pilgrims

It's okay to weep - I've actually see men do that. And if you churned for my pointing out to you that your post of the Essene doctrine of Christ is neither Christian nor Islamic, then my point is made. It only confirmed that you don't believe in Jesus Christ, and the verses you've been quoting from the Qur'an are mere cover-ups for your loopholes.

Okay, I dont huh but the fact remains that the bible in incomplete huh.

Take care and please am extending friendship handshake to you, make you accept o.


@stimulus

Biko. I hit you real hard huh? I am laying the thread to rest, it has been established that the bible is 100% complete (yes ke), so no more drama, give Jesus a big handsssssssssssssssssssssssss, halleluiah

Sombode shout amen, oay extension of handshake

@stimulus

I'm surprised you're pretending that you haven't registered "anything" in Christian threads. Most of your blasphemous statements are well noted and still in the various threads where you posted them.

No need to be surprised. Provide me the link to christian thread(s) where I posted blasphemous statements.

In as much as it is a "free-world", I'm not the kind given to your antics - and that is why you haven't seen me engaging in endless arguments with people (and I made that point clear the very first time I engaged you in a debate).

Likewise myself. Provide me proof, evidence, fact or whatever you have and I go with you.

Peace.

@stimulus




I should applaud pilgrims.1's concise rejoinder to that rubbish you posted there. You very well know that neither Christians nor Muslims pander to the so-called GNOSTIC Christ. When you reposted that excerpt, your opening comments were: "Read more about Jesus", and one should not be surprised that Islam promotes GNOSTICISM. And for all that, Muhammad yet did not know what to do with his tales of the 'christ' you copped out from the Essene.

Beating about the bush, defending the indefendable. Let me ask you, which came first, the Essenes or christianity?




Nope, you Muslims believe in LOST books! You are the same person who claimed that the TORAH, INJIL and PSALMS of the Qur'an are lost; and you still are yet to address the question of where you get your stories from. Just take style stop deceiving yourself - there are no prophets you believe in; and that claim that you believe in "all the prophets" is a sham for your apologetic "lost" books. It is now obvious that you're on a godless adventure to deliberately calumnize Jesus Christ, which is only a reaction to the exposure of the cover-up that pilgrim.1 has been carefully offering readers. Glad to know that her posts are reaching you where you least expected.

still making no sense. Trying to cover up the loopholes. It has been established, your bible is incomplete and not 100% the word of God. .




That is why Muhammad didn't know what 'allah' would do to him after he died. What a pity.

still not making sense,. Read more on the above and on the hadith you quoted therein
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-48586.32.html

@stimulus

No wahala if you want to discuss with a 'brother'. I don't remember any Christian posting anything on this thread until you invited such comments. Cheers.

If you want to post anything, you are free to. Have you seen me registering my post in any of the christian threads despite all your blasphemous statements. So brother, if you feel like I have said anything that called for your comments, you are free to submit your post just like in other threads.Its a free world.

Peace.

@stimulus

Calm down, hope you are not frustrated (from the tone of your post)?
]

"the ransom for the releasing of the captives from the hands of the enemies, and the law that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever).

I have told you that the incident you quoted happened during the war fought by the Holy Prophet and if you do not understand, try reading it over and over again for understanding.

If you care to know, I and the rest of muslims have told you that no muslim supported the act and have given you enough explanations. So if you are not satisfied, its your problem and not mine. I have told the one that created this thread that no muslim supported the act and even gave you verses from the Quran and Hadith going against that.

Peace.

@pilgrims



By posting that excerpt above, are you trying to convince readers that the GNOSTIC Jesus of the Essene is the very one YOU believe in - the very same one that the QUR'AN proclaims??

I should be the one asking you that. I thought you were a muslim and you might have read his story in my book. Are you telling me that the Gospel with you now is the one given to Jesus?


It is such a pity that you take pleasure in deriding Jesus Christ at just about any instance and in any way that suits your calumny. Little do you realize that, not only are your efforts counter-productive, they are also anti-Islamic, anti-Qur'anic, and anti-hadithic.

Point of correction, I am not deriding Jesus. I am not doing anything anti-Islamic unless you want to deceive yourself. You would have read his story in my book, compare the story in my book to that of your book. We muslims believe in all prophets including Jesus in which you are aware of. I dont want to go far cos it seems I have received nairalandian handshake but will still welcome any question as far as Islam is concerned.



May God lead your heart to true repentance from your ungodliness, and help you see that Jesus Christ the Son of God is the ONLY Saviour and hope for your soul.

Sister, stop deceiving yourself. I already believe in Jesus as the prophet and messenger of God sent to the Israelite wit the Gospel.

@stimulus


Funny how you just lift any hadith without understanding the reason and circumstances surrounding it.

This is the hadith again:

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 1, Book 3, Num. 111 -

Narrated Ash-Sha'bi:
Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked Ali, 'Have you got any book (which has been revealed to the Prophet
apart from the Qur'an)?' 'Ali replied, 'No, except Allah's Book or the power of understanding which
has been bestowed (by Allah) upon a Muslim or what is (written) in this sheet of paper (with me).'
Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked, 'What is (written) in this sheet of paper?' Ali replied, it deals with The Diyya
(compensation (blood money) paid by the killer to the relatives of the victim), t[b]he ransom for the
releasing of the captives from the hands of the enemies, and the law that no Muslim should
be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever).[/b]


Must you lie or pretend not to understand sentences in order to defame Islam? If not that you are here to make mischief, you would have understood that the incident happened during the wars fought then and I have given you verses forbidding killing and the punishment for killing in Islam.



@davidylan

Its your problem if you do not want to have a handshake. As I do say, nothing moves babs. If you want to continue with the debate or argument rather, babs is here and if its the other way round, babs is available too.

@reverend

So you believe that when you die, thats the end, that there is no resurrection or accounting for one's deeds?



@stimulus

Jump for my seat? No way, Allah is sufficient for me. But sir, cant I discuss with a brother? Na real wa o. Ok, I am very sorry sir, it wont happen again.



@davidylan

You need knowledge and not jumping here and there. It will be highly appreciated if you can shed more light on Sunni's belief as regards the judgment day

Peace.

@nferyn

Thanks once again.

You have my word.


@batu

Why cant you behave in a mature way. Enough of these senseless posts of yours. You can never post any rejoinder without behaving like a slowpoke. Which of your questions or threads have i evaded. When i contribute, you will say babs is appearing in every threads and if I didnt, you will still be the one saying I am avoiding you. Which one should I do?

@nossycheek,

If you have been reading your bible, you would have read that he left Bethlehem for Jerusalem and not Egypt.

I am putting a stop to it cos hands of friendship has been extended to me, so you are free to say whatever you feel like after my post

Peace.

Every believer wants to die in Mecca but we should know that everyone has his appointed time and when the time comes, he must surely leave. I may die now or tomorrow but what matter most is how close we are to Allah. If we are in the morning, one should worship as if one is not going to witness afternoon and if we are in the afternoon, worship Him as if you are not going to witness sunset. ALLAH KNOWS BEST.

One should strive towards perfection every second, minute and hour because no one knows where, when, time his time will come.

If I am to consider the likes of davidylan and batu, I wouldnt have responded but for my lovely sister Mukina that told me to ignore them. But I have learnt that it has become their nature to always go the other way when an issue is being discussed, so one need to ignore them pretending not to see their posts. I saw his blasphemous pictures in one of those threads (davidyan), there is nothing I can do on that, that would be decided between you and your God. No muslim has ever gone that extreme in uttering blasphemous statements as you have been doing (please provide proof if you have).

Firstly my sincere appreciation goes to babyosis for creating this thread. We have fought, yabbed, insulted, called each other's names but here we are bridging the gap of brotherhood and sisterhood. We at times disagree to agree, though we may not agree to each other's claim. We have our different religion which should be respected by either party. But remember that if one abuse God of one party, the party will surely respond and you may never like it. As I do say, I have christian friends and we respect each other's faith. My appreciation goes to my brother AdKabir too that has been trying to bridge the gap too but has been facing continuous attacks from apologists. My last appreciation goes to shahan, goodguy, stimulus, pilgrims, etc that have been exhibiting a sense of maturity and understanding in diffferent ways. Though we may be of different faith, the fact still remains that we are all children of Adam. Whether we like it or not, we can never all be of the same religion and when this happens, we shouldnt try condenming other's faith but accept them the way they are because only God knows the reason for doing so.

I will like to correct babyosis' impression towards me. Babs as you have said is not hot tempered nor aggressive. If you had known babs, you would known him to be a very jovial, loving, caring, honest, easy going, funny, easy going, shy and above all, has the fear of God. Some of my secret friends can confirm that. If babs is hot tempered as you have been claiming, I would have left all these while when you have been calling me names but like I said, nothing moves babs, he is the jovial type that you would never love missing his company. I treat nairaland as another world, nothing freaks me here. I leave nairaland behind me when I leave my pc.


I so much thank sisimose and viee for their efforts in bringing the gap of understanding, tolerance between the two religion and may God continue to be with you and your household.

My sincere appreciation goes to my brothers and sisters in faith who have been taking patience in explaining the misconceptions about Islam preached by westerners. My appreciation goes to my big brothers: Olabowale, Neoteny, Belloti, Islampride, Drbelloim, Drixie, Abkabir, Ibraheem, Mustay, twinstaiye, oyb etc and my sisters: Mukina, muske etc and those too numerous to remember, May Allah in His infinite Mercy to guide us all (Amin). I thank all of them for their efforts in preaching Islam as a religion of peace even if people may hate it, there is no religion that preaches peace as Islam and there is no religion that go against extremism as Islam. Islam preaches love, peace, patience etc but its very painful how some people hide under the cloak of Islam to do all sorts of atrocities.




@davidylan

Before linking Islam to terrorism, you need to first find out the history of terrorism and you will find out that it cuts across every facet regardless of religion, ethnicity, tribe etc.


@babyosis,

Thanks so much and may it never be the end of our friendship.

Have a swell weekend.

Peace

@LuvinGuy

Thanks for the Good News

You are welcome

@ogechi84

Okija shrine - Yoruba

@nferyn


I think you are an atheist? If you are, no problem, I respect your believe.

Hold your breath, when the time comes, you will debunk all the quranic verses and explanation regarding scientific miracles in Islam and the bible. We will soon get there in one of the threads opened.

Stay cool.

@batu & davidyan

Your posts are indeed extension of handshake

Good day.

@luvinguy

Did you read my post up?

@stimulus

Lert me have how to attain salvation in christianity. I have tried the two religion and can confidently tell you that no religion that teaches Paradise as Islam. Al-Quran is my sure link with Allah, proof me wrong and I will join yours.

On the issue of salvation, pastors too are confused and if they are not, please explain these to me

The Bible confuses the whole issue of salvation. Many claim that faith in Jesus Christ is enough for salvation as being put by John 3 v 15- 18. If you are laying claim to that, then is a problem as there are other verses that go against that. For example the Gospel says that whoever believes and is baptized will gain paradise (Mark 16 v 16) that leaves us to wonder about the fate of those born again Christians that died or are alive without being baptized. I doubt it if you yourself has been baptized. Now going through the bible, one wonders if faith alone can make one to have salvation (john 3 v 15-18) or faith with baptism (mark 16 v 16) or faith with works (james 2 v 14-15). Which of those qualifies one for Paradise?

Further, in the books of Ephesians 1:4-6 and Revelation 17:8, everybody is pr-destined for either heaven of hell before the ‘foundation of the world’. Meaning that no one can be saved except his name is written in the beginning whether you are born again or not and whether you have been baptized or not. Also, no one can gain paradise except God wants (John 6 v 65), meaning that it is based on God’s decision and will save someone when he likes.

So let me have your explanation in addition to my questions

Peace

@babyosis,

Let me have their difference and similarities and compare that to Protestants, seventh day adventist, Cathoics, Jehovah witness, etc.



@davidylan

I thought you know the bible very well. Didnt the Israelites tried Moses? Didnt they go back to worhipping idols. Didnt they tell him to perform miracles for them. Brother, if its about Moses and Israelites, you sure have babs, we can always iron the issue out. Read your pentateuch very well and you will learn what the Israelites did to Moses.

As for the the sunis and shittes, let me have explanation on the Quran they recite, the chapters in their Quran and compare with the books of protestant with catholics. Also give it to me where they face during their worship. When you are through with these, we go into other issues.



@pilgrims


Did you miss that? If you knew there were NO miracles in the QUR'AN, what zeal drove you to offer the falling eye-pupil as one of those miracles in the first place?

Sister, honestly it is very obvious that you were never a muslim let alone practising one. You can imagine a former 'practising' muslim asking if Muhammed's miracles were recorded in the Quran. A non practising muslim will tell you that the Quran was written by Allah and has no saying of the prophet. His miracles are recordd in the Hadith. Muhammed's miracles are in the Hadith and the Holy Quran is Allah's greatest miracle. Common, 'former practising muslim', this shouldnt be an issue, Muhammed's saying, doings are in the Sunnahs and the Hadiths.



Is it becoming so uncomfortable now that you address other people's questions as "allegations"?? What have you been doing all the while?

Is that the issue or topic at hand?   'allegations'


Let me leave you yet again with what I stated earlier:

Quote from: pilgrim.1 on April 25, 2007, 07:52 PM
That said, I should also remind you that your offer of those weblinks do NOT in even one instance claim that Muhammad performed ANY miracle. . .

Allah owns the Quran and the doings of the prophet is in the Hadith. So you expect his miracles to be written in the Quran. Wow, a ' former practising muslim' asking if Muhammed's miracle is written in the Quran. Now the Gospel was given to Jesus, why was it written in past tense and has the saying of 3rd party? You can never find his miracles in the Quran but the Hadith.


Again, for your sake, please stick to the topic; and if you have nothing to say thereto, please pass on and let other knowledgeable Muslims come to the discourse instead of being desperate to cover up what you can't defend.

I am not covering up anything. You should be the one covering up when you have nothing to offer in those threads opened by you. I have told you and I am telling you now sister, Muhammed has his doings recorded in the Sunnah and the Hadith. You will never find his words in the Quran except that of Allah and that is why its Allah's book. Very soon, we will know if really the bible should be taken to be God's book.


If Muhammed performed NO miracles in the Qur'an, he performed NONE outside Islam's holy book of 'Allah'. Subsequently, the word "MIRACLE/MIRACLES" should be scrapped from that book!

Haba, pls try to speak like a former muslim, you have not been speaking like one. You are expecting it to be written in the Quran. Quran is for Allah alone while Muhammed's (saw) doings and Sayings are recorded in the Sunnah and the Hadith. Al-Quran was revealed by Allah to Muhammed and it is the GREATEST MIRACLE OF ALL.




As Muslims, that is what we were taught by rote, and we all swallowed it - hook, line, and sinker. No Muslim ever stops to ask what miracle the Qur'an has actually ever performed. Who has been healed? Raised from the dead? Had their physically blind eyes and deaf ears opened? Had their lame feet strengthened so they could walk??

Well if you care to know, the Quran is more than that? Are you referring to miracles  of oyakhilomes, bonnkes etc, they are magicians. The Quran is the gratest miracle. It talks on past, present, future, science of nature in which scientist are just discovering. It talks about creation of things, biology, psychology, jinns (which your bible never tells you) etc. Scientist too respects the Quran and there are some that have accepted only cos of its Scientific miracles. Also it was arranged in chronological order etc .Its the greatest miracle. You keep mentioning opening of eyes, how many has been healed in your area. Anytime your pastor performs miracles, let him have it written down the address of those that he claims to have received salvation. We have lots of handicapped, let the pastors heal them , they are ready to believe and some of them are believers.

You are also a believer, why cant you heal cos Jesus said that you should ask and that it would be given to you and that if you command the mountain to move, it woud move. Abeg stop deceiving yourself with magic.

The Quran is the ULTIMATE MIRACLE.


What use is the claim that the Qur'an is "the greatest miracle" when it has done NOTHING at all to people who have physical and real needs of a miracle??

Na wa o.Is that your own understanding of miracle? The Quran talks on every facet of life, have you seen the arithmetical miracle of the figure 19 and other figures. Have you ponder on how the heaven and earth were created. In His Book, Allah even challenged the unblievers to verify it if His claim were wrong. You have everything pertaining to creation, justice, rulership, science etc in the Quran. You have



And then come to think of it - are you guys not speaking from opposite ends of the bridge? On the one end, it is popularly claimed that Muhammad did NOT write the Qur'an; but when it suits your argument, then all of a sudden, Muhammad the illiterate fellow sat down for 23 years and wrote the Qur'an!! If he was such an illiterate fellow, who did his counting for him in money matters, especially when he divided the booty and spoils of war?

Wait, get it straight. The statement goes to you christians, you have been acusing Muhammed of writing the Quran and that raises the question that, how could an illiterate be so well versed and had the knowledge of things in which scientist are just discovering. Further how coud an illiterate sit down for 23 years and arranged the Quran in a chronological way. Far from it, it was written by Allah, The Supreme.


Please, for one brief moment, challenge yourself to investigate your religion independently of what the Ulema tell you. If you can't, no problem: I'll come back later to show you that Muhammad actually wrote the Qur'an - and it's no longer a big deal to see that it's all fabrication of his own ideas and passions.

Islam is not like your religion. Please we do verify everything before accepting . And it is a result of our verification, we get to know Bidiah. I have been telling you, we muslims verify things before accepting. it is you that do not verify, you can imagine some saying that God is Jesus while some saying no. Some christians have been challenged and even pastors but they keep telling you that they met people saying it that way. Imam cannot bring anything and expect me to accept without proof. You should please check yourself.


Huh? Are you now again confirming that babs787's effort was a wasted one afterall? I guessed as much, although he wouldn't admit it.

Try understand to Oyb's statement.


[color=#990000]However, if "miracles have no effect on faith of human beings", then indeed the Qur'an is NOT a miracle - and for precisely the reason that it had no effect on my faith as a human being, I forever left it to those who still claim the opposite of what you're stating in Islam.[/color]

Is miracle the foundation of faith? Did the jews believe in Jesus dspite his miracles?



Absolutely correct! That's why I've always said that my leaving Islam was FOREVER!! I know what it means!!

It will not affect Allah's religion. May you realise the truth on time


In just the same way, the Muslim apologist(s) who spend their time attacking Christianity should realize that there are Muslims who de-convert from Islam to other religions, after having shouted the first part of the adhan many times - 'allahu akbar!' Is this why de-converting from Islam carries the death penalty; while the apostates of other religions simply pray for those leaving their religion?

Oh no. why are you preaching what you dont know?

Read on pls:

Deuteronomy 13:6-9: If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.


Deuteronomy 17:3-5: And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, , and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die.

2 Chronicles 15:13: All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.



Did I hear you say there are no variants of Islam? Where have you been?? Even with my small knowledge of my former religion, the last time I counted, there were over 75 well-established denominations in Islam, most of which are as far removed from each other as can possibly be!

Let me have the 75 variants, the book they read, the number of chapters, where they face when praying please.


Muslims often say, there is only one book, and only one Islam. Hey, forget the chant and lift up your eyes: the Qur'an CANNOT survive on its own, and Muslims MUST depend on the ahadith if Islam is to survive at all. Don't forget that Muslim scholars themselves today are beginning to suggest that Islam MUST undergo a "change" (nevermind that 'Allah' had perfected your religion for you!).


So how does that comes in? If muslims shouldnt support the hadith, then rerefence shouldnt me made to it. Please what change are you referring to? Let me have your own explanation


Plus, have you heard the latest? Watch out for the first English translation of the Qur'an by an American woman!

Are you saying that that woud be the first English translation? What is the noise about please? What is the deal in translating the Quran please, would that be the first translation?


Under what "laboratory conditions" was the greatest miracle in Islam (al-Qur'an) churned out??

Scientist have been confirming the scientificmiracles therein


Don't blink - I love you with the love of Jesus Christ, and hope that you come to know Him for His unfailing love. May God richly bless you and bring you to His saving grace.

Huh. I know that you went to learn about the false doctrines, Allah will touch your heart again and you will come and tell us those doctrines as bein preached by your pastors. Islam is the Noah' ark of today, embark on it and be saved. If anyone desire any other religion apart from Islam, it wil never be accepted of him and he will be among the losers. please I dont want you to be thats why I am calling you now.

Peace.

@davidylan

[color=#990000[b]]you are a disgusting hypocrite.[/b] Keep hoping from thread to thread. If this is really about the completeness of the bible i wonder why you ran away from threads that clearly prove the incompleteness of the quran. [/color]

Is that your biblical definition of hypocrite. A christian even called me anti-christ, maybe you have been reading all those from the holy bible that that would be th xteristics of the anti-christ . It has been established that your bible is incomplete. Let me have your proof of the missing verses in the Quran.



@stimulus



It's just the other way round: whatever allegations and accusations Muslims have acridly made against the Christian faith have been applied in examining Islam. The bitter truth is that you Muslims do not like being served your own diet, and the way your authorities go about quelling apologetic debates is by issuing fatwa, blowing up innocent people, or declaring jihad.

Please serve me my diet real hot. Still on the incompleteness of the bible, it has been established from christian source that its incomplete, so let me have missing verses from the Quran. You are just fighting a lost battle, its very glaring that your bible is incomplete. So admit the fact brother and lets move on  



Be honest, or simply claim that you don't really know the facade in Islam, the Qur'an and the Hadith.

Okay I dont know, please teach me.


The satanic verse has been editted to cover up the paganistic polytheism in Islam. Muhammad confirmed that he was made to forget certain verses of the Qur'an, and chose instead to adopt the renderings of those from whom he heard them.

Oh no, why must the verse be edited  . Cab you give me the editted verses please?


Aisha also confirmed that certain verses which are not in the Qur'an today were formerly written on a sheet of paper, which was eaten by a goat.

Meaning? Brother, why is it hard for you to admit the glaring truth. I have shown you missing verses in your bible, missing books and even the saying of the authors of RSV. Now, let me have missing verses, lost chapters etc from my book too.


Besides, I've dealt more on this issue by showing that most of the BOOKS Muhammad's 'Allah' revealed are nowhere to be found in the Qur'an, nor have Muslims up until today provided us with any such document.

Let me have them please and we will see if they are in the HOLY BIBLE.



What "Gospel" was Muhammad claiming that 'Allah' sent down, which NOBODY has seen?

The Gospel sent and given to Jesus  and not that of Luke in which he wrote it to Theophilus. or letters of Pual to the gentiles  



I'm sure you'd be rushing back instead of backing off - with more denials, no worries. We have also observed that you never answer questions offered you; and most of what you post are dressed up plagiarized material you found on other websites - I've said it before, and continue to say it, until you can afford to think for yourself. No problem in you devoting more time to Islamic threads; hope you'll be blessed soon to see that Jesus Christ is the Saviour - holy and without sin.

What questions have I avoided, hope you have not forgotten my questions in other thread? Brother, funny how you people run from issues when you have nothing to say. Has any muslim challenged you to lifting from thread when it was glaring that you, your sister and some others have been lifting from thread and dressing them up . Go to Christian sites, bring anything on Islam and Insha Allah, it will be debunked. You are free to continue going there, they have been deceiving you and I pray that may it not be too long in realising the truth.Did you say Jesus was without sin/ What is baptism for brother


Me sef, I go soon waka for a long while - man must make a living; plus, summer dey come!

Hope you are trying to run away?  


If you really have a heart to be honest, reasonable, and to learn, we are more than willing to assist. Enjoy.


Confess jare, your bible is incomplete, so no argument, the truth has been established. When you are ready for me, we move on with regards to other issues.

Having confessed to the fact that your holy book is incomplete, I now pray for you:
If the son of man can make you free, you are free indeed. Go now and sin no more. Old things have passed away, you have become new creature. Can somebody shout Halelluiah?  
Peace

@stimulus



The reason why you could not participate in your debate in that thread was because you lack proof, evidence, facts. Contrary to your argument there that has been challenged, Muhammad simply did NOT perform ANY miracle. Period.


He did perform but the problem of most you christians is that you are expecting it to be in the Quran. For God's sake, it was not written by him, so any of his saying, acts etc are the Sunnah and the Hadith. I think your sister pilgrim should know better having been muslim  




The so-called evidence you gave was challenged because of its inconsistency and lack of common sense. You never returned to give any explanations to the questions that followed. And your remark should be of huge interest to YOU: "If you want to learn, am here for you." Yep, we're all here dishing out scholarly lessons for your enlightenment; sadly, you many times fail to take your own advice.

Brother, you have not taught yourself anything let alone teaching another person. How many of your so called doctrines have been debunked by babs and non-muslims? I have told you, the Quran is the book revealed by Allah to correct the lost and corrupted bible. His miracles can only be found in the Hadith. Hear the person that wants to teach that couldnt defend his doctrines let alone teaching another person. If you need anything on Islam, am available and if you think that you can cover my eyes with false doctrines, I am available as well.

That reminds me, I asked you some questions but you havent answer them. These are the questions again

saw a post by someone saying he was crucified publicly, did his disciples witness the crucifixion?

1. Christians say that Jesus and the disciples were aware of what he came to do, if that is the case, why did the disciples not believe that he had risen from the dead?

2. If the disciples knew that Jesus had to rise, why didn’t they return to Jerusalem to see the resurrection?

3. Where was jesus crucified, Outside Jerusalem or in Jerusalem?

You should attempt them o brother.




Let's hope that you stop deceiving yourself, babs787. We all know that there is NO salvation in Islam. Muhammad faulted all the 'promises' of 'Allah' in the Qur'an when he contradicted them in the Hadith. He went so far as to state that even he himself was not guaranteed salvation by the same criteria that the Qur'an held out for others. I've dealt with that in another thread, and here repost them:

Ok, lets read on

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Almost every religion preaches good works and deeds of righteousness - including Christianity (although we are not saved by any work of righteousness which we have done - Tit. 3:4-5).

There are many such verses, babs787, there are many such. What I cannot understand with you guys is that you fail to see how Muhammad controverted this promise of 'Allah' in the Hadith. He categorically said that Muslims are not saved by good works or deeds of righteousness; not even MUHAMMAD HIMSELF can escape that:

  Narrated Abu Huraira:

     I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “The good deeds of any person will not make him enter Paradise.”
     (i.e., None can enter Paradise through his good deeds.) They (the Prophet’s companions) said,
     ‘Not even you, O Allah’s Apostle?’ He said, “Not even myself, unless Allah bestows His favor and
     mercy on me. So be moderate in your religious deeds and do the deeds that are within your ability:
     and none of you should wish for death, for if he is a good doer, he may increase his good deeds,
     and if he is an evil doer, he may repent to Allah.”
     (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 7, Bk. 70, Num. 577).

  Narrated Abu Huraira:

     Allah's Apostle said, "The deeds of ANYONE of you will not save you (from the (Hell) Fire)."
     They said, "Even you (will not be saved by your deeds), O Allah's Apostle?"
     He said, "No, even I (will not be saved) unless and until Allah bestows His Mercy on me.
     Therefore, do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately, and worship Allah in the
     forenoon and in the afternoon and during a part of the night, and always adopt a middle,
     moderate, regular course whereby you will reach your target (Paradise)."
     (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 8, Bk. 76, Num. 470).

This is my response too:

It has shown that you do not understand the above hadith. The prophet is saying that your deed alone cannot guarantee you Paradise. For example, there are some that do good deeds but do not believe in God, in his existence nor worship Him.

Islamic concept of salvation is not based upon good deeds, but is based primarily upon faith. In the dozens of times Allah Almighty talks in the Quran about salvation, he always states, "Those who believe and do good deeds." Belief is always mentioned before deeds or works. When one converts to Islam, one does not do it by doing some good work but rather through realizing and believing that there is but one God and Muhammed peace be upon him is his last messenger. Non-Muslims may perform good works as well, but what sets them apart from Muslims is their lack of Imaan (Aqeedah) [faith], or belief. The reason that the good works of the non-believers are worthless in the hereafter is because of their disbelief. Unless a person's imaan or aqeedah is not correct, all his good deeds are worthless.

In order to gain Paradise, belief must come first. I gave you lots of Verses on Salat as being the sole passport to Heaven. When a man die, His solat will forst be looked into before any other things.

Now after your belief, your good deeds follows as he said in the last part of the Hadith

Therefore, do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately, and worship Allah in the
     forenoon and in the afternoon and during a part of the night, and always adopt a middle,
     moderate, regular course whereby you will reach your target (Paradise)."

So you cannot say that your Paradise is guaranteed without belief in Him. Belief must come first before your good deeds. You can't worship what you don't believe in. So whether you are a believer or a non-believer, all your deeds will be shown to you be it good or bad


Quran 4 v 125:Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend.  

Also I want you to know that he forgives all sins so far you have no intention of going into it again


Quran 35v45: If God were to punish men according to what they deserve, He would not leave on the back of the (earth) a single living creature: but He gives them respite for a stated Term: when their Term expires, verily God has in His sight all His Servants.  


Quran 8:38:Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from unbelief), their past would be forgiven for them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).  

Quran 38v66:The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all between,- Exalted in Might, able to enforce His Will, forgiving again and again.  


Quran53v32:
If we are sincere, our daily sins are almost always forgiven:  "Those who avoid great sins and shameful deeds, only (falling into) small faults,- verily thy Lord is ample in forgiveness. He knows you well when He brings you out of the earth, And when ye are hidden in your mothers' wombs. Therefore justify not yourselves: He knows best who it is that guards against evil.  

Quran 4v110:If you ask Allah Almighty for forgiveness, then He'll forgive you: "If any one does evil or wrongs his own soul but afterwards seeks God's forgiveness, he will find God Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Quran 14v7:If you are grateful to Allah Almighty, then He'll give you more: "And remember! your Lord caused to be declared (publicly): 'If ye are grateful, I will add more (favours) unto you; But if ye show ingratitude, truly My punishment is terrible indeed.'

Quran 39 v 53: Be sure that Allah Almighty is always Willing to forgive all of your sins:  "Say: 'O my Servants who Have transgressed against their souls!  Despair not of the Mercy of Allah:  for Allah forgives all sins for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.  


Quran 10:61 "In whatever business thou mayest be, and whatever portion thou mayest be reciting from the Quran, and whatever deed ye (mankind) may be doing, We are witnesses thereof when ye are deeply engrossed therein. Nor is hidden from thy Lord (so much as) the weight of an atom on the earth or in heaven. And not the least and not the greatest of these things but are recorded in a clear record."

Quran 99:7-8 "Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!  And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it."




There are several other Hadith verses that speak to the same point. But there again, apart from deeds of righteousness, what about the question of SIN?? Muslims often accuse Christians as being the grossest of sinners on the face of the earth; but was Muhammad any better when he admitted to his sins and turning in repentance to Allah over seventy times DAILY? This is not some peripheral claim, babs787; and I'd like you to see for yourself how Muhammad dealt with SIN among Muslims:

  Narrated Abu Dharr:

     The Prophet said, Gabriel came to me and gave me the glad tidings that anyone who died
     without worshipping anything besides Allah, would enter Paradise. I asked (Gabriel),
     ‘Even if he committed theft, and even if he committed illegal sexual intercourse?’
     He said, ‘(Yes), even if he committed theft, and even if he Committed illegal sexual intercourse.”
     (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 9, Bk. 93, # 579).

Brother, let me explain. Heavens has grades, and you will be in any heaven depending on your belief and good deeds. Now there are some people that will taste Hell for a while and will be moved to Paradise just because they have faith and believe in God and His Messenger. An adulterer who confesses the Shahadah and died will be judged according to his belief and good work, if he deserves Hell, Allah will put him there but the time he would stay be determined by the level of his sin. Hope I have communicated?



Quite to the contrary, the righetous Lord of heaven and earth will not let sin abide His presence. He offers His forgiveness and cleaning of sin in the Name of Jesus Christ the sinless One; and NO worshipper of 'Allah' who dies in their sins (theft, illegal sexual intercourse, etc. included) will EVER enter into paradise:

"For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" (Rev. 22:15).

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor. 6:9-10)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My response again:

Firstly, if God of a believer that believes in God is condemned and doomed for Hell, tell me what kind of father is that as being claimed by you. Must a father condemn his son forever for sin committed? Islam stands on this is the best.  If you are believer but you commit any of those sin, you will be in Hell depending on the weight of your sin and will be moved to Paradise because of the belief after serving your punishment. On that day, Allah will allow the prophets, martyrs, angels and the believers to intercede for inmates of hell who testified to His ones, believe in Him but were deficient in their deeds. The Hell to them will be like a hospital established for the treatment of their painful diseases (terrible sins). Consequent upon their sufferings, there will naturally be the shrieks, cries, weeping etc.  these will not cease until the end of the treatment is reached. After their through cleansing, Allah will then allow Muslims to intercede for those Muslims saying, they are our brothers, we used to pray together, fast together, etc and Allah will tell them to remove from Hell anyone in whose heart you find faith equal to the weight of one (gold) Dinar. Further, Allah will tell them to take out from the fire those that have faith equal to the weight of one and half Dinar and finally those having faith equal to the weight of an atom.

If those that have committed those sins will be in Hell, it would include David that fornicates with his neighbour’s wife, Samson that slept with Harlot, Lots Daughters, Judah, etc will inherit Hell. In Islam, they would taste hell and stay there according to the weight of their sins but will be moved to Paradise because of their faith.



Quote from: babs787 on April 23, 2007, 04:31 PM
I've also wondered with careful observation about why babs787 keeps hopping from thread to thread and dodging questions these days. Even when people try to be reasonable with him and address some of his questions (most of which do not even deserve any answers), he runs around with even more of his games in hope that readers would either be left confused or just tired out.

What questions have I doged? Hope you have not forgotten my questions up, you need to answer them o.


So, what is wrong with others joining in the debate on any subject or thread? You wan continue your "taqiyya" on a private level??

Never mind, it doesnt matter, let everybody participate. Ar you ok now