₦airaland Forum

@babyosis,

OK babs,allah allowed temporary marriages and later changed his mind and forbade them,I quoted that already.
Remember however that is Sunni doctrine,the shittees still have temp marriages.

Let me have it from the Quran or anywhere where it is allowed.


You want me to accept that mutah marriages are no longer allowed though they previously were and you continually find it difficult to understand that old testament laws are not applicable to Christians since Christ fullfilled the law,he said it himself.

baby, what blasphemy is that? Old testament is not applicable to Christians again!! What did God Jesus say concerning OT, ddidnt he say that he didnt come to annul it? Since you find it hard to understand the reason for the muta marriage which was explained above, I am now asking you that why did God Jesus made law in the OT and you refused following it today and why did he abrogate some of the laws. Let me have your response.


You keep asking if God of the Bible changes his mind despite the explanations,can I assume that Allah changes also?
You see,when you ask questions that are ridiculous,you should be ready to receive same.

Same explanation as above. Ok you have agreed that abrogation is in the bible too and you have agreed also that some laws are made according to the situation of things therein.


Ok babs,make sure you marry just one wife,I'm very sure you can't handle more than one especially if you're blessed enough to land a great woman like babyosisi

Is that an advice ? Babs doesnt need that. nossycheek didnt ask question, if she had, I would have explained, there are reasons that allows polygamy and the reasons too can be be applied in christianity too. So you dont know that one wife is one problem, two wives two problems, etc. What is great about babyosis sef, abeg make I hear word jare . Babyosis is not different from every other woman jare

Some do indulge in polygamy in order to satisfy their selfish desires and Allah said at the tail end that no man will be able to do equality among the wives and if you can not do that, it will be better for you to stick to one in order not to offend the creator.

Honestly, I missed Shahan so much.My regards to her and May God be with her wherever she is. (Amen)

Can somebody shout em 3 Halleluyahs?

@jeshua

Thanks but no thanks.

What is your conclusion, please be factual and tell me how to get salvation in christianity. I have tried the two religion and can confidently tell you that no religion that teaches Paradise as Islam. Al-Quran is my sure link with Allah, proof me wrong and I will join yours.

On the issue of salvation, pastors too are confused and if they are not, please explain these to me

The Bible confuses the whole issue of salvation. Many claim that faith in Jesus Christ is enough for salvation as being put by John 3 v 15- 18. If you are laying claim to that, then is a problem as there are other verses that go against that. For example the Gospel says that whoever believes and is baptized will gain paradise (Mark 16 v 16) that leaves us to wonder about the fate of those born again Christians that died or are alive without being baptized.  I doubt it if you yourself has been baptized. Now going through the bible, one wonders if faith alone can make one to have salvation (john 3 v 15-18) or faith with baptism (mark 16 v 16) or faith with works (james 2 v 14-15). Which of those qualifies one for Paradise?

Further, in the books of Ephesians 1:4-6 and Revelation 17:8, everybody is pr-destined for either heaven of hell before the ‘foundation of the world’. Meaning that no one can be saved except his name is written in the beginning whether you are born again or not and whether you have been baptized or not. Also, no one can gain paradise except God wants (John 6 v 65), meaning that it is based on God’s decision and will save someone when he likes.

Which do I take

Thank you and God bless.

@pilgrims



What was your initial remark? -- "following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remained in the area of Jerusalem for the presentation".

HEY, dont try to act funny. This is the quote below

Note: following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remained in the area of Jerusalem for the presentation (about 40 days) and then returned to Nazareth without ever going to Egypt.


Did they REMAIN in Jerusalem or they brought Him TO Jerusalem?? How do you GO TO a place where you already REMAIN there?

You know that I am not a professor like you. What does 'follwing' meant to you? Did it not meant that after the birth of Jesus or what is the meaning to you? The quote says following his birth, meaning after his birth, they remained in Jerusalem for the presentation. And even if you do not understand the above, you should at least understand the word , 'returned to Nazareth".

Read the verse above for yourself. Do they ever go to Egypt in the above verse? So let me have the real Jesus please.



If you want to learn, read the Gospels. If you don't want to, you can continue to believe in the Injil that you claim are LOST; which makes the Qur'an an INCOMPLETE book.

I have been reading and that is the reason I came up with these. Tell which is the real Jesus and stop beating about the bush. The one that left for Egypt or the one that didnt go to Egypt al all? . I have told you to provide me the incomplete verse as I have done with your bible.

Honestly, the bible is 100% complete



Jesus' birth and early childhood, family ancestry, and detail of His ministry are in the Bible, not in the Qur'an. When you're ready to learn, then answers will come. Until your reading skills improve, enjoy your mindset as I noted earlier.

Are you referring to Jesus of the book of mathew or Luke. That of Mathew has 28 genealogy (mathew 1 v 18) while that of Luke has 43 genealogy (luke 3 v 23)

Na real wa oo for you christian faithfuls

@pilgrims

WHERE IN THE QURAN ARE THE MIRACLES MUHAMMAD PERFORMED TO PROVE HE WAS THE LAST AND GREATEST PROPHET??


His miracle are no recorded there. Are you ok now? More of your allegations please.

@noosycheeks, you didnt say anything to the contradictory statement made BY Jesus as to the position of bein on that day and polygamy in the bible


@babyosis

firstly, what does the verse meant to you?

secondly on Muta marriage, why did your authors lift one hadith in order to deceive you and never complete it?

It seems you just lifted without reading, if you care, this is what is in the last sentence

So I contracted temporary marriage with her, and I did not come out (of this) until Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) declared it forbidden.  (Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3253)"


You see that it had been banned, so no hiding place for you.

Narrated 'Ali: "I said to Ibn 'Abbas, 'During the battle of Khaibar the Prophet forbade (Nikah) Al-Mut'a [Temporary Marriage in English] and the eating of donkey's meat.'  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah), Volume 7, Book 62, Number 50)"

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah and Salama bin Al-Akwa': "While we were in an army, Allah's Apostle came to us and said, "You have been allowed to do the Mut'a (marriage), so do it." Salama bin Al-Akwa' said: Allah's Apostle's said, "If a man and a woman agree (to marry temporarily), their marriage should last for three nights, and if they like to continue, they can do so; and if they want to separate, they can do so." I do not know whether that was only for us or for all the people in general. Abu Abdullah (Al-Bukhari) said: 'Ali made it clear that the Prophet said, "The Mut'a marriage has been cancelled (made unlawful)."  (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Wedlock, Marriage (Nikaah), Volume 7, Book 62, Number 52)"


Narrated Saburah ibn Ma'bad al-Juhani: "The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) prohibited temporary marriage with women.  (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2068)"  


Volume 5, Book 59, Number 527:

Narrated 'Ali bin Abi Talib:

On the day of Khaibar, Allah's Apostle forbade the Mut'a (i.e. temporary marriage) and the eating of donkey-meat.


Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3259:

Rabi' b. Sabra reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage.


Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3260:

Rabi' b. Sabra reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade on the Day of Victory to contract temporary marriage with women. This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Rabi' b. Sabra that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade to contracf temporary marriage with women at the time of Victory, and that his father had contracted the marriage for two red cloaks.


Book 021, Number 4763:

'Ali b. Abi Talib reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade on the Day of Khaibar temporary marriage (Muta') with women and the eating of the flesh of domestic asses.


Book 008, Number 3262:

Sabra al-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage and said: Behold, it is forbidden from this very day of yours to the Day of Resurrection, and he who has given something (as a dower) should not take it back.


Are you ok that it has been banned. Now read the reason dear


The reason why temporary marriage was allowed is to prevent illegal sex, prostitution and rape especially during the early times of Islam when Muslims didn't have residence stability and were facing all kinds of difficulties from the pagans.  The Muslim men used to also travel for long months away from their families to meet the enemy in the battle field.  Some of the towns they used to go to had Muslim women in them, and like I said, to prevent adultery and fornication with any woman (Muslim or non-Muslim), and to prevent rape, the Prophet peace be upon him allowed temporary marriage contracts between Muslim men and women.

When the Muslim state became stable during our Prophet's time, he then forbade that act because Muslims then could get married and have stable lives with their families and raise Children in a stable and convenient community.  


Are you ok now?  

Quran 2 v 111: And they say: 'None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian.' Those are their (vain) desires. Say, 'Produce your proof if you are truthful.'

To the unbelievers; that reject truth

Quran 16 v 25: Let them bear, on the Day of Judgment, their own burdens in full, and also (something) of the burdens of those without knowledge, whom they misled. Alas, how grievous the burdens they will bear!


Quran 29 v 13; They will bear their own burdens, and (other) burdens along with their own, and on the Day of Judgments they will be called to account for their falsehoods.

Quran 98 v 6: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book (Christians and Jews) and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein. They are the worst of creatures.

Peace.

@pilgrims


(a) you're correct that in the Qur'an, faith and works go together rather than stand alone. You can't really blame stimulus for not having been a muslim previously; but even so, his analysis is accurate to the last dot!

What analysis?


(b) the reason why I say the above is because the criteria for entering paradise in Islam as taught in both the Qur'an and ahadith are inconsistent. If faith AND works are closely connected, mutually inclusive rather than exclusive, then it only makes sense that a man's faith must be produce good works.


Please, let me have the inconsistence criteria. Let me ask, is it everybody that has faith, produces good work? Are you telling me that there are no Christian that believes in Jesus yet far from doing good work. Are you telling me that there are no assassin, armed robber, etc that believes in him yet indulge in those bad deeds?.

Have you read the book of James (James 2v14-15) where it is said that faith without work is useless? Lets be honest with ourselves, there is no book that talks on Paradise and Hell as the Quran.

The Bible confuses the whole issue of salvation. Many claim that faith in Jesus Christ is enough for salvation as being put by John 3 v 15- 18. If you are laying claim to that, then is a problem as there are other verses that go against that. For example the Gospel says that whoever believes and is baptized will gain paradise (Mark 16 v 16) that leaves us to wonder about the fate of those born again Christians that died or are alive without being baptized.  I doubt it if you yourself has been baptized. Now going through the bible, one wonders if faith alone can make one to have salvation (john 3 v 15-18) or faith with baptism (mark 16 v 16) or faith with works (james 2 v 14-15). Which of those qualifies one for Paradise?

Further, in the books of Ephesians 1:4-6 and Revelation 17:8, everybody is pr-destined for either heaven of hell before the ‘foundation of the world’. Meaning that no one can be saved except his name is written in the beginning whether you are born again or not and whether you have been baptized or not. Also, no one can gain paradise except God wants (John 6 v 65), meaning that it is based on God’s decision and will save someone when he likes.

So let me have your explanation on the above  from your bible. As for Islam, belief comes first followed by good deeds.



(c) that said, it is utterly untenable and illogical that a man may believe in Allah and enter paradise EVEN if he dies in his SINS! Is it not for the same reasons of "THEFTS" and "ILLEGAL SEXUAL INTERCOURSE" that Muslims have their hands cut off and women are stoned?? (even the stoning of women is one of the missing verses of the Qur'an, which again makes the book INCOMPLETE!!).
You my sister with your incomplete Quran!

Firstly, if God a believer that believes in God is condemned and doomed for Hell, tell me what kind of father is that as being claimed by you. Must a father condemn his son forever for sin committed? Islam stands on this is the best. I didn’t refer to those that have their hands cut, they have received their punishment. That reminds me, did jesus not tell that he didn’t come to annul any law? Why did God Jesus made law in the OT and you never judge by it? If you are believer but you commit any of those sin, you will be in Hell depending on the weight of your sin and will be moved to Paradise because of the belief afyer serving your punishment. On that day, Allah will allow the prophets, martyrs, angels and the believers to intercede for inmates of hell who testified to His ones, believe in Him but were deficient in their deeds. The Hell to them will be like a hospital established for the treatment of their painful diseases (terrible sins). Consequent upon their sufferings, there will naturally be the shrieks, cries, weeping etc.  these will not cease until the end of the treatment is reached. After their through cleansing, Allah will then allow Muslims to intercede for those Muslims saying, they are our brothers, we used to pray together, fast together, etc and Allah will tell them to remove from Hell anyone in whose heart you find faith equal to the weight of one (gold) Dinar. Further, Allah will tell them to take out from the fire those that have faith equal to the weight of one and half Dinar and finally those having faith equal to the weight of an atom.



(d) I see no reason why Islam should teach heinous punishments against those who commit such wicked sins if they would still enter paradise even though they die in their sins!! This is an indefensible contradiction.

Read above and for further clarification, if those that have committed those sins will be in Hell, it would include David that fornicates with his neighbour’s wife, Samson that slept with Harlot, Lots Daughters, Judah, etc will inherit Hell. They would taste hell and stay there according to the weight of their sins but will be moved to Paradise because of their faith.



(e) Just imagine what kind of message is being preached in Islam if people can go out and commit ILLEGAL SEXUAL INTERCOURSE and still hope to enter paradise if they die in those sins, simply because they believed in 'Allah'! What does that say about the holiness of Muhammad's religion? Is it any wonder that people don't take sin seriously in Islam, and all the talk about "righteousness" is mere talk?

Sister, I have explained above. No sane person or believer will go about fornicating. If you really believe in God and wants his favour, you will avoid sin knowing that sin delays whatever one asks from God and keeps one off from him. And if it happens that the person committed it, fine, he would be punished in Hell and serve his term in Hell according to the weight of his crime.
So if they would be in Hell for eternity, it means that David, Samson , Lots Daughters, Judah etc would be in hell.


You could just imagine asking Jesus the same question about SIN. Here is His answer:

Luke 13
verse 2-3:  "And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

verses 4-5: "Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

A message that preaches hatred against ILLEGAL SEXUAL INTERCOURSE and still admits its perpetrators into paradise (even if they die in them) is NOT worthy of the name "religion".


A question for you, what would be the fate of include David that fornicates with his neighbour’s wife, Samson that slept with Harlot, Lots Daughters, Judah on that day because they have committed grievous sins?



(e) does Islam teach that believing in Muhammad is to believe in Allah?

Does this not confirm the convoluted idea that Muhammad was merely a messenger? Look closely, babs787, and you will find that Muhammad set himself up at par with Allah; and there's no denying that fact. More to come when you deny that.

In what way did he set himself up at par with Allah? Allah sends Muhammed and believing in Him is believing in Allah that sent him just like as you put that believing in Jesus is believing in God. Please let me have your claim. Muhammed is not Allah for your understanding, he was His messenger.



(f) can ANYONE enter paradise with ANY sin at all?


I had hoped to read something more enlightening that what I already know is being taught in Islam. This is very sad, to say the least. If you had shown me without contradiction that a sinner could enter paradise but "will first REPENT of his/her sins," then perhaps you'd have caught my interest. Without contradiction, remember?


And if the sinner died in it, it means that he would be in Hell despite his faith. What kind of father is that that will condemn his son for life? Then my question again, what will be the fate of David that fornicates with his neighbour’s wife, Samson that slept with Harlot, Lots Daughters, Judah that committed grievous sins?



This belief is why Muslims still have no clue of how seriously God takes the issue of sin. NO SINNER who dies in his/her sins can ever hope to get out of hell! As long as people believe that they will still enter paradise even if they die in their sins, there would be no genuine repentance from them.

Islamically, if you repent of your sin, you would be forgiven. And if you die in your sin, you will be judged accordingly and serve your punishment in hell if it warrants it. I wonder what kind of father is your God that decides to condemn his son for life for sins committed. Once again, your bible never tells you that we have 7 heavens and everybody will be in each according to his faith and deeds. (Do you have that in Christianity too?)




May God open you eyes to see this truth. The beauty of salvation in Jesus Christ is that the repentant sinner will NOT enter hell even for one minute!! Why? Because a merciful and forgiving God reaches out to the needy sinner in complete compassion, forgiveness, and redemption.


Sister, stop contradicting yourself. So repentant will not taste paradise. What of those that have been killers, fraudsters and changed to pastors, are you saying its hell straight? Then if there is no need for forgiveness of sins, Jesus wouldn’t have said that he came to call the sinners and not the righteous and there wouldn’t be any need for him preaching repentance and telling his disciples to do same. My eyes is already opened, it is you that should check yourself. I am Muslim and will die as one. If you sin and you seek forgiveness, you would be forgiven.

Quran 2 v 186: When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way

Quran 4 v 48: Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin most heinous indeed.  



If a person is striving after righteousness and still hoping to go to hell, what kind of message is that? Once a person gets into hell, all hope is LOST!!

If one is striving towards righteousness, he would not indulge in sin. I wonder what kind of God Christians worship.

What will be the fate of David that fornicates with his neighbour’s wife, Samson that slept with Harlot, Lots Daughters, Judah that committed grievous sins?



In the name of Jesus Christ, may hell never be the portion of anyone reading this discussion. Amen.

Amen for those that refused to accept the truth despite the fact that they have seen it and may their faces be opened before its too late (Amin)

Take care  

@davidylan

I love the subtle way you decided to acknowledge defeat. I am of the belief you never fully recovered since mo's many blatant lies, contradictions and the scientific illiteracy of the quran was exposed when you can blabbing about Mo's "miracle" of the iris falling down the cheek!


My brother. I am not backing out cos of defeat but just for the fact that, it has been established that the bible in incomplete. So I dont need to be dragging irrelevant issues with you and your sister again . Besides, I dont want to go off topic because you have been known for that. When you have enough evidence to give me that your bible is complete, then I will respond.

Good day  

@pilgrims

Thanks for your understanding.

II am most certainly not clutching at straws. The issues are clear: it's either Muhammad said Allah has 99 NAMES, or he was wrong and should have used ATTRIBUTES!!

So you didn’t see those posted up. He was right in using names and not attributes.


If you maintain that it should be NAMES exactly as Muhammad said; then the issue of "attributes" begs the question. If it was rather "attributes" and not NAMES, then Muhammad was wrong.

Clarify yourself please.


I did not state that there were 1000 names; my challenge was straight forward - please provide me with a list of the 99 names from the Qur'an where Allah SPECIFICALLY said those were his NAMES!!

So if you did not state that, why going into what you have no knowledge of? I have told you to provide me a proof where it was stated that it is 1000 or less.



I can understand that you are asking out of this discussion because you have none; which further confirms that Muhammad got it all wrong; or that you simply can't find the relevant verses to show that Muhammad was correct afterall.

What did I get wrong? I have provided you enough answers up, its left for you to go through them again and get back at me. You were a Muslim before, now to your understanding, what do Abdul Hakeem, Abdullah, Abdul Ghaffar etc and what does Rahamon and Raheem mean? When you provide that, we will move on.




Thanks for trying to explain yourself again, although it was unnecessary. I say so because it does not differ in substance from what you posted earlier, and again it does not answer my questions.

Well, I dont know which will answer your question. I have provided some of the names and backed them up with Hadith, so if you do not accept, there is nothing I can do. I cant foce you to accept.


On the one hand you quoted the authority of Abu Hurairah (RA) who said ‘Allah has ninety-nine names; which is the same as saying that, "The names of Allah is 100-1." On the other hand, you would have to either agree that there are MORE THAN 99 names being offered today by Muslims (combining different lists); or else, please offer me a complete list of yours, with the verses in the Qur'an where Allah specifically mentioned that those names belong to Him.

I am still telling you that the inclusion of the name ‘Allah’ makes the names to be 100. Better stil, let me have yours that says it is 101 or 95 or provide me hadith that says it is less than.


Partly true, especially because the Quran loses its status of being Allah's word when translated into another language. Yet, I have the arabic Quran, and that's why I continue to express these concerns.


Wow, are you trying to say its incomplete just it has been established that the is not? You are right . Arabic language is the language of Allah and that is it’s the most acceptable. Moreover, there would have been confusion when praying to God if different languages are allowed just like Christians do not have any act nor mode of worship

Quran 12 v 2: verily, we have sent it down as an Arabic Quran in order that you may understand

Quran 20 v 113: and thus, we have sent it down as a Quran in Arabic, and have explained therein in detail the warnings, in  order that they may fear Allah, or that it may cause them to have the honour for believing and acting on its teaching.

Little wonder we are having missing verses, chapters from the bible.


I'm no stranger to what you've stated. Could you then offer me a list with ALL 99 names and their verses where Allah SPECIFICALLY CALLED HIMSELF BY ALL THOSE NAMES??


Haba, haven’t I given you part of the names? And if you are not contented, let me have your meaning of Abdul Hakeem, Abdul Malik, Abdul Bashir etc.


Thanks; but where did ALLAH mention those names as HIS OWN??

In case you missed them. Here are the verses I gave to you
He is Allah, that whom there is no god, the Knower of the invisible and the visible. He is the Beneficent, the Merciful. He is Allah, that whom there is no other god, the Sovereign Lord, the Holy One, Peace, the Keeper of Faith, the Guardian, the Mighty, the Compeller, the Superb, Glorified be Allah from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)1.

Read it from, ‘he is the merciful down to the Superb.

Also
He is Allah, the Creator, the Shaper out of naught, the Fashioner, His are the most beautiful names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Him, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.

He further said, ‘He is Allah, the Shaper out of naught, the Fashioner (Al-Sabih), the Mighty (Azeez), the Wise (Hakeem)


Is this a name, or an attribute describing allah? Remember that my argument is about the NAMES (Muhammad said "NAMES" and not "ATTRIBUTES."


Names my dear. If you can get the transliteration, you will have it Al-Azim, and if you cant, please try to find the meaning of Abdul Azim meaning the servant of the Great.


The name "ALLAH" is NOT regarded as an attribute by Muslims, is it? And if that is the first NAME among the 99 NAMES, what are you now inferring with this idea of "attributes"?? Was Muhammad WRONG about using names instead of attributes??


Cool down sister. I have given you the hadith above. Are you telling me to follow man or Muhammed? Muhammed (saw) said names and why should I be bothered with the list of men like you and I. Jesus said that the servant is not above his master. Will you follow man as against the teaching of Jesus?. Allah is the first name followed by other names.



If this is not clear to you, then I would like to offer further explanation upon request as to the huge difference between them; and why I am sticking by NAMES instead of ATTRIBUTES.

Let me have your own version please. Are we not saying the same thing?


Not names there.

Are you expecting him to say , my name is Al-Ghaffar just like God Jesus said his name is God? Did you ‘Allah is ….? If they are not names, what are they?




I was a practicing muslim; but NOT a gullible one. I don't wait for the Ulema to give me their political re-interpretation that non-thinking Muslims are only too happy to swallow, even if Muhammad asked them to drink camel's urine that none of them will dare do today.

Hello. Why must you follow Ulema?  You were not a practicing one, if you are you wouldn’t be following Ulema but confirm anything being said by him before accepting it. I for one, I don’t follow Ulema or whatever as what I am doing is what Allah wants and there is proof for it. Like I said in one thread, Imam cannot tell me anything and expect me to accept without due verification. So muslims don’t follow imam or whatever, we verify anything before we do or accept it. You caused it yourself because you never verified anything before accepting, Islam gives you opportunity to verify things and Allah and the prophet talk so much on acquiring knowledge because if you don’t, you will not be able to worship and will be deceived.



I have done all that, and thanks for the offer. Problem is that they are NOT names; and I'm not after attributes.

What are you after then?


Take care

@olutomiwa

Have you asked yourself why Jesus never married at 'supposed' age of 30 something?

@pilgrim

(d) there is a consistent criteria for entering paradise; or just so many ideas that Muhammad wished on the spur of the moment? (no offences meant; and I'll offer why my question is thus worded).

Just like I replied your brother

Islamic concept of salvation is not based upon good deeds, but is based primarily upon faith. In the dozens of times Allah Almighty talks in the Quran about salvation, he always states, "Those who believe and do good deeds." Belief is always mentioned before deeds or works. When one converts to Islam, one does not do it by doing some good work but rather through realizing and believing that there is but one God and Muhammed peace be upon him is his last messenger. Non-Muslims may perform good works as well, but what sets them apart from Muslims is their lack of Imaan (Aqeedah) [faith], or belief. The reason that the good works of the non-believers are worthless in the hereafter is because of their disbelief. Unless a person's imaan or aqeedah is not correct, all his good deeds are worthless.


(e) does Islam teach that believing in Muhammad is to believe in Allah?

Quran 4 v 80: He who obeys Muhammed (saw) has indeed obeyed Allah, but he who turns away, then we have not sent you (O Muhammed saw) as a watcher over them.


(f) can ANYONE enter paradise with ANY sin at all?

A sinner can enter paradise but will first taste Hell and remain there according to the weight of his sins.

Hope I have communicated?

So let me have yours

Thanks.

@davidylan

Honestly, you are too hilarious. Are you trying to cover up the story? Your sister posted rejoinder on Luke and I replied but rather than read post before replying you never, but posted your rejoinder without thinking. If you care to know, Jesus of Luke did not leave for Egypt and no record of Killings. Please read Luke 2 v 22- 40 yourself and get back at me.

For your understand, this is the summary of the story in luke, so compare to mathew's

Note: following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remained in the area of Jerusalem for the presentation (about 40 days) and then returned to Nazareth without ever going to Egypt. There was no slaughter of the infants. There were 43 generations in all and the annunciation occurred before conception.

@pilgrim

You are just clutching at straw, I have answered you and if I havent, let me have your own Hadith that says its 1000 or 98 and if you cant, am laying the argument to rest because your argument holds no water.

Take care.

@davidylan

Are you afraid?

You are trying to be one sided in your argument but we need to touch all arears.

Like I told you, go to the sites and read the comparison between them, your Jesus occupying the 3rd position.

As for the miracles, let me know when you are ready and we will also compare the creation of things, stories of prophets, scientific claims etc

This will be the most interesting of all threads.

Are you ready?

@batu


When I read the passage, the first thing that came to my head was: "For God sake , what is the problem of this blab787? and how is this issue of resurrection, and the levirate marriage custom according to the Mosaic law, related to the question of having multiple wives?"
Then it dawned on me that the reason a lot of peoples have uncomplimetary things to say about you, your questions and attitude, is simply because we try to reason with you on the assumption of the same level of understanding; and that is complicated by your usual arrogant I-know-it-all disposition. I therefore apologise for some names I have called you before. I will henceforth discountenance your attitude and when I have time, explain things as "simple" as possible to the best of my ability.

Never mind, we are still friends




However, the theme of the passage is on the resurrection, and you can see that Jesus taught on the resurrection of the saints in heaven, i.e in heaven there is neither marriage or giving out children in marriage, but we are like angles living in eternal glory of God and happiness.

Wow, this is what I need. Jesus said we would be like angel and no sex in heaven. Please explain the verse below

RE 14:1-4 Heaven is to be inhabited in part by 144,000 virgin men who have not been "defiled" by women.

144,000 virgin!!!!!!!!!




@nossycheeks


@babs787

You are just rambling. I asked a simple and straight forward question which are you unable to answer instead you go about making wrong quotations.

You didnt ask like someone that wants to learn. If you want to, I would have told the reason behind it.


Just In case you have been reading the Bible in "Arabic", know it that Christianity does not permit polygamy, pedophilia, divorce, homosexually (dan daudus) nor women being recycled in marriages upon marriages as practiced and ordained in Islam.



Now lets see if God Jesus does not permit polygamy

God Jesus said:
mathew 5 v 17-18: Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.


Christians always say as an excuse "Oh this law doesn't exist in the New Testament, it is only the Old Testament." Well, according to Matthew 5:17-18 above, we clearly see that God Jesus honoured the Old Testament, and forces Christians to follow the unmodified laws of it.

Now lets read from the OT

Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry.

2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines.

1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.

2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines.

Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons, "



The Old Testament as we clearly see above does indeed allow polygamy without a shadow of a doubt !!.


Abeg, you have not answered me, where can I get self generating hymen? I have lost mine.

Also the parable of the ten virgins supports polygamy

Let us look at Matthew 25:1-13

The Parable of the Ten Virgins

1. At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

2. Five of them were foolish and five were wise.

3. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.

4. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.

5. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6. At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'

7. Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.


8. The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'

9. 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'

10. But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11. Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'

12. But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'

13. Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

According to Jesus' parable, the bridegroom married 5 of the ten virgins! It seems also that Jesus in this parable really allowed for all women to be naked in one room with their one husband!!!

When the time comes, we will look at the stand of Jesus and paul on widow etc

@Ibraheem 007


Salam brother


We are already friends and brothers in Islam just am I am to my Brothers in the like of Belloti, Islampride, Mukina, AbKabir, DrBelloim, Drixie, Mustay and those that I have forgotten to mention, May Allah never forget them (Amin)and May Allah continue guiding us (Amin)

I was afraid and wept when I first read the book, it was so touching that there is no way you will not be moved when you go through it except those that have their eyes blocked.

Honestly there is no day that I will not shed tears for these unbelievers when I remember the Judgment day. If only they accept the last book and the last prophet.

When you read Quran chapter 3 and 5, you will see that they will be spending so much time, money, energy on the so called evangelism but their deeds will not be looked into on that day.

I am grateful to Allah for making me a muslim even though I wasnt from the onset.

You have my email address and I can have yours too and we communicate anytime we feel like and expand our knowledge on Islam.

Maa Salam.

@pilgrim

When a chap has a mindset pre-programmed against JESUS CHRIST and what He represents, it is no wonder that we read amusing topics like this.

More of that. I am not perturbed  


They did not REMAIN in the area of JERUSALEM. They were outside of it, and only came for the ceremony prescribed:

Luke 2:22 - "And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord."

If they had REMAINED in the area of JERUSALEM, what is your explanation to "they brought him TO Jerusalem"??


Where was he born, was he not in Bethlehem? Is bethlehem part of Egypt. He was born in Bethlehem and was carried to Jerusalem and not Egypt, unless you want to tell me that Jerusalem is part of Egypt.

Secondly, no killing of infants was recorded in the story of Luke's Jesus.

Now in addition to the Jesus in the book of mathew where we read that Herod killed all infants from 2 years downward, why did John the Baptist escaped being killed because he was below 3 years then.

Thank you.

@pilgrim

You dont have to wait any longer, Babs is finally here


I have learnt that I don’t need to look at the noise being made at the market square but rather concentrate with the person am trading with.

If you are looking for the miracle he performed, you will never see it in the Quran .  He didn’t write the Quran and the only place you can find it is in the Hadith.


If really Jesus can wake the dead, I need your explanation on
Mathew 8 v 21:another of the disciples said to him, ‘Lord, let me first go and bury my father’

V 22: but jesus said to him, ‘follow me and leave the dead to bury their own dead.

Now if you need any further comparison between the two prophets, go to these links and read that your JESUS didn’t even occupy the 2nd position but 3rd!! The comparison was done by a non-muslim. Happy reading.

http://www.adherents.com/adh_influ.html

read the reason for chosen him as the first

http://www.twf.org/Library/Prophet.html

read the comparison below too and he deserved number 1.

http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/islam/T12D25GTN8JVE2EDP



Now as to the scientific miracles, we will be comparing from the two books, we will look at stories of the prophets, mathematics and number 19, mathematics miracles in lexical concordance.


Quran 41 v 53: We will show them our proofs in the horizons, and within themselves, until they realize that this is the truth. Is your Lord not sufficient as a witness of all things?

Quran 83 v 18-22: Indeed the book of the righteous will be in 'Elleyyeen. Do you know what 'Elleyyeen is? A NUMERICALLY STRUCTURED BOOK To be witnessed BY THOSE CLOSE TO ME. The righteous have deserved bliss.

We will look at the numerical miracles in the book and compare to the bible.

Quran 74 v 32-35: Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon. And the night as it passes. And the morning as it shines. This is one of the great miracles.


Are you ok, should I proceed?

@stimulus



1. I saw a post by someone saying he was crucified publicly, did his disciples witness the crucifixion?


2. Christians say that Jesus and the disciples were aware of what he came to do, if that is the case, why did the disciples not believe that he had risen from the dead?


3. If the disciples knew that Jesus had to rise, why didn’t they return to Jerusalem to see the resurrection?


4. Where was jesus crucified, Outside Jerusalem or in Jerusalem?



You have been accusing me of running from questions, I asked you the above questions in 'was jesus crucified' but u never said anything to the questions, so I decided to bring them again and after that, we will address those of misright together.

Take Care

@stimulus

No wahala. I'm going to be very busy beginning next week; but I'll always try and address the issues you bring along. In hindsight, please do us the favour of addressing issues laid out for you, abeg - especially those posted by pilgrim.1  

Never mind, Insha Allah, I will meet you there after my response to your rejoinder here. The thread will be the most interesting and mother of all threads.

Here are the questions:

1. I saw a post by someone saying he was crucified publicly, did his disciples witness the crucifixion?


2. Christians say that Jesus and the disciples were aware of what he came to do, if that is the case, why did the disciples not believe that he had risen from the dead?


3. If the disciples knew that Jesus had to rise, why didn’t they return to Jerusalem to see the resurrection?


4. Where was jesus crucified, Outside Jerusalem or in Jerusalem?





What you offered was your trademark denial, rather than rebuttal. Here's Isaiah 9:6 again:

  "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
  and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
  and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,
  The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Now, let me ask you: If that verse was not refering to the MESSIAH, then WHO was it referring to?

Isaiah 9 v 6:

a. Did he rule Isreal?
b. Was he king of the Jew?
c. Was Government on his shoulder?
d. Was he really prince of peace of OT or NT?




Okay, here are the OT verses I offered earlier in reference to the crucifixion:

Psalm 22:16 - "For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet."

Zechariah 12:10 - "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn"

Here are the NT verses in fulfillment of those referenced in the OT:

A. Psalm 22:16 & 18 and Mark 15:24

Psalm - "16For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. . . 18They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture."

Mark - "And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take."


B. Zechariah 12:10 and John 19:37

Zechariah - ""And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

John - "And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced."

Now, babs787, what is your understanding of the word "pierced" in those verses, and how do they differ from their fulfillment in the NT verses I referenced as well??


You are very funny my brother. Hope you will not say that I lifted the verses from websites (typical escapist strategy). You have been accusing Muslims of lifting out of context but here you are doing same. Now let me bring out the verses for readers to see and you will see that it was David talking about his deliverance. Now go to the beginning of chapter 18 and you will read thus and I quote

‘To the choirmaster. A psalm of David the servant of the Lord, who addressed the words of this song to the Lord on the day when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of saul. He said

Psalm 22 v 1: My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me from the words of my groaning (2) o my God, I cry by day, but thou dost not answer and by night, but find no rest (3) yet thou art holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel (4) in thee our fathers trusted; they trusted and thou didst deliver them (5) to thee they cried, abd were saved; in thee they trusted, and were not disappointed (6) but I am a worm, and no man; scorned by man, and despised by the people (7) all who see me mock at me, they  make mouths at me, they wag their heads ( He committed his cause to the Lord; let him deliver him, let him rescue him, for he delights in him (7) yet thou art he who took me from the worms ; thou didst keep me safe upon my mother’s breasts. (10) upon thee was I cast from my  birth and since my mother bore me thou hast been my God (11) be not far from me, for trouble is near and there is none to help. (12) many bulls encompass me, strong bulls of Bashan surround me (13) they open wide their mouths at me, like a ravening and roaring lion (14) I am poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint, my heart is like a wax, it is melted within my breast (15) my strength is dried up like a potsherd and my tongue cleaves to my jaws, thou dost lay me in the dust of death (16) yea, dogs are round about me, a copany of evildoers encircle me, they have pirced my hands and feet (17) I can count all my bones, they stare and gloat over me (18) they divide my garments among them, and for my rainment they cast lots (19) but thou, o Lord, be not far off! O thou my help. Hasten to my aid (20) deliver my soul from the sword, my life from the power of the dog (21) save me from the mouth of the lion, my afflicted soul from the horns of the wild oxen

From NLT

(22) Then I will declare the wonder of your name to my brothers and sisters, I will praise you among all your people (23) praise the Lord, all you who fear him! honour him, all you descendants of Jacob, show him reverence, all you descendants of Israel (24) for he has not ignored the suffering of the needy. He, has not turned and walked away. He has listened to their cries for help.

The word of God concerning Israel
Zechariah 12 v 7 : and the Lord will give victory to the 10th of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem may not be exalted over that of Judah. ( on that day  the Lord will put a shield about the inhabitants of Jerusalem so that the feeblest among them on that day shall be like David anmd the house of David shall be like God, like the angel of the Lord, at their head (9) and on thwt day I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem (10) and I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of compassion and supplication, so that when they look on whom they have pierced , they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly for him, as one weeps over a firstborn (11) on that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadadrimon in the plain of magido (12) the land shall mourn each family by itself, the family of the house of David by itself and their wives by themselves, the family of the house of nations by itself and their wives by themselves.

To understand what they meant by piercing, pls read on

Chapter 13 v 3: and if any one again appears as a prophet, his father and mother who bore him will say to him, ‘you shall not live, for you speak lies in the name of the lord, and his father and mother who bore him shall pierce him through when he prophesies

Now after being pierced, this is the result

V 6: and if one asks him,’ what are these wounds on your back? He will say, ‘the wounds I received in the house of my friends.

Hope you have understood piercing?  Piercing is different from crucifixion and crucifixion wasn’t mentioned. Hope you ve seen that the verses are not making reference to Jesus but to David and Zechariah respectively. Give me a verse that says he would be crucified and would rose the 3rd day.

Did you also noticed that the incident was recorded before Jesus was born (‘whom they have pierced’) meaning that the action happened before he was born.

Did you also read piercing from John 19 v 34. piercing is done with sword and not your so called crucifixion.




Oga, na true I talk now. . . anyone who goes to those websites at first glance know say you dey photocopy (or rank xerox) their vexations, dress them up and call them your own. Haba, maigida. .minini??

Yes o. I rank zeroxed all the verses as well  



Okay, I can understand that you're repeating Muhammad's claims by rote without having examined ALL he said and taught. If anyone follows the adventures of Muhammad, would one call that "sweet"? I give you just one: what is sweet about "turning in repentance to Allah more than sevety times in a day"?? What is even sweet about the racism against the Jews that Muhammad pronounced as a 'prophecy' for the LAST HOUR unto Muslims?

So, if I happen not to join ranks with those who have no assurance of their sins forgiven, and who express such deep racist hatred against any group of people, then there's nothing for me?? So much for the salvation in Islam; but no thanks - Jesus has both changed my life, filled me with love and hope for hope for the glory of His presence in the Second Coming.


So because Jesus is a prophet, he shouldn’t be grateful, worship him, seek repentance for sin committed unknowingly to his creator who made him prophet among thousands of people. Brother, you need to know the purpose of creation and by so doing, you will know that even the  prophets worshipped God, glorified Him, seek his repentance and protection from evils. Please what is baptism for?



He has always been the Son of God and Lord of our salvation. Deny that, no bother; but He certainly was NOT a muslim.

Brother, the religion practiced wasn’t Christianity. Did he practice same as Abraham, Adam, Noah etc and do you have the proof from your bible?




Was that why Muhammad declared war on non-Muslims when he sought to force his religion on others? But you should have quoted Sura 2:256 where Muhammad said that "there is NO COMPULSION in religion"; and yet he still came back to controvert that statement with this hadith: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle. . ." [Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 1, Bk 2, #24].



When did he force his religion on others? Brother, you need to read the story of the most influential man.

As to the verse you quoted, the incident happened during his time when he was preaching Islam and the pagans never wanted him to, they tried all sort of things, they never allowed his people to do anything with the community. He was told never to fight and had to leave his community with his followers. He left Mecca, leaving his properties along with that of his companions, his homes etc for Medinah. When the oppression and aggression became too much, he had to fight back, for the safety of his companion etc. bother, this thread wil not be able to contain his story if I start.

Quran 22 v 39 –40: permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed and most surely Allah is well able to assit them

V 40: those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say: ‘our Lord is Allah’. And had there not been Allah’s repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques in which Allah’ name is much remembered; and surely Allah will help him who helps His cause, most surely Allah is strong, mighty.

Quran 2 v 190 – 193: and fight in the way of Allah with those who fight you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.

V 191: and kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out and persecution is severer than slaughter and do not fight with them in the sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them, such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

V 192: but if they desist, then surely Allah is forgiving, merciful

V 193: and fight with them unbtil there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against oppressors.

Hope you understood?


As for the jews, you need to read their history and learn more about who they are.
Hear what Jesus said concerning them

Matt. 23:27-39 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead {men's} bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchers of the righteous, and say, if we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. {Ye} serpents, {ye} generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and {some} of them ye shall kill and crucify; and {some} of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute {them} from city to city. That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, {thou} that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under {her} wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed {is} he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Read this too

Deut. 7:2-5 "When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jesuits, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, {and} utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire."

As for racism, why not read your bible first before accusing me of same

Deut. 23 v 19: do not charge your brother interest, you may charge a foreigner interest, but not a brother Israel.

Mark 7 v 27: jesus said to her who sought his help, ‘it is not meet to take the children’s bread and cast it to th dogs.

Mathew 7 v 6: he also said: do not give that which is holy to the dogs, neither cast your pearls to the pigs.

Genesis 9 v21: noah drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent. And Ham the father of Canaan saw the unclothedness of his father and told his two brothers outside. Then shem and japhet took a garment laid it upon both their shoulders and covered the unclothedness of their father. Their faces were turned away and they di not see their father’s unclothedness.

Whn noah awoke from his wine and he knee what his youngest son had done to him, he saisd’ cursed be cannan, a slave of slaves shall be to his brother, blessed be shem, and let cannan be his slave.

Leviticus 26 v 7: infact you will chase down all your enemies and slaughter them with your hands

V 8: five of you will chase a hundred and a hundred of you will chase a thousand. All your enemies will fall beneath the blows of your weapons.

Now let us read further, the most interesting story showing that is God really LOVE

Leviticus 27 v  14: if you do not obey me or my commandments
15: and if you break my coveant by rejecting my laws and treating my regulations with contempt

16: I will punish you. You will suffer from sudden tenors, with wasting diseases and with boring fevers, causing your eyes to fail and your life to ebb away. You will plant your crops in vain because your enemies will eat them

17: I will turn against you and you will be defeated by all your enemies. They will rule over you and you will run even when no one is chasing you.

God did not stop there ooooooo

V 18: and if , in spite of this, you still disobey me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. I will break down your arrogant spirit by making the skies above as unyielding as iron and the earth beneath as hard as bronze

V 20: all your work will be for nothing, for your land will yield no crops and your trees will bear no fruits.

Again, the merciful God continues

V 21; if ever then you remain hostile towards me and refuse to obey. I will inflict you with more disaster for your sons

V 22: I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted

The forgiven and merciful God Jesus continues

V 23: and if you fail to learn a lesson from this and continue your hostility towards me

V 24: then I myself will be hostile towards you, and I will personally strike you seven times over for your sins

V 25; I will send armies against you to carry out these covenant treats. If you flee to your cities, I will send a plague to destroy you there and you will be conquered by your enemies

This God is really wonderful, haba na wa o, he vex reach food o. he is really merciful

V 26: I will completely destroy your  your food supply, so the bread from one oven will have to be stretched to feed ten families. They will ration your food by weight and even if you have food to eat, you will not be satisfied.

Hear God after all those sufferness, he never stopped, he continued

V 27: if after this you still refuse to listen and still remain hostile towards me

V 28: then I will give full vent to my hostility. I will punish you seven times over for your sins

V 29: you will eat the flesh of your own sons and daughters

V 30: I will destroy your pagan shrines and cut down your incense altars. I will leave your corpses piled up beside your lifeless idols, and I will despise you.

V 32: yes, I myself will devaste your land. Your enemies who come to occupy it will be utterly shocked at the destruction they see.

V 33: I will scatter you among the nations and attack you with my own weapons. Your land will become desolate and your cities will lie in ruins.

Now for the survivals

V 36: and for those of you who survided, I will demoralize you in the land of your enemies far away. You will live there in such constant faer that the sound of a leaf driven by the wind will send you fleeing. You will run as though chased by a warrior with a sword and you will fall when no one is pursuing you.

V 39: those still left alive will rot away on enemy lands because of their sins and the sins of their ancestors.

After killing everybody, he said

V 40: but at last my people will confess their sins and the sins of their ancestors for betraying me and being hostile towards me

Now from the disgusting story above,  God that forgives after having inflicted them with diseases, allowed them to kill their children, remembered his covenant with Jacob Abraham etc.

God did all the above because they did not listen to him. He indeed pray for sinners and never do any harm.


"It is not fitting, for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire
This is the continuation of the verse you quoted


Quran 9 v 114: And Abraham asking forgiveness for his sire was only owing to a promise which he had made top him but it became clear to him that he was an enemy of Allah, he declared himself to be clear of him, most surely Abraham was very tender hearted and forbearing.




  Narrated Abu Huraira:

     Allah's Apostle said, "The deeds of ANYONE of you will not save you (from the (Hell) Fire)."
     They said, "Even you (will not be saved by your deeds), O Allah's Apostle?"
     He said, "No, even I (will not be saved) unless and until Allah bestows His Mercy on me.
     Therefore, do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately, and worship Allah in the
     forenoon and in the afternoon and during a part of the night, and always adopt a middle,
     moderate, regular course whereby you will reach your target (Paradise)."
     (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 8, Bk. 76, Num. 470).


It has shown that you do not understand the above hadith. The prophet is saying that your deed alone cannot guarantee you Paradise. For example, there are some that do good deeds but do not believe in God, in his existence nor worship Him.

Islamic concept of salvation is not based upon good deeds, but is based primarily upon faith. In the dozens of times Allah Almighty talks in the Quran about salvation, he always states, "Those who believe and do good deeds." Belief is always mentioned before deeds or works. When one converts to Islam, one does not do it by doing some good work but rather through realizing and believing that there is but one God and Muhammed peace be upon him is his last messenger. Non-Muslims may perform good works as well, but what sets them apart from Muslims is their lack of Imaan (Aqeedah) [faith], or belief. The reason that the good works of the non-believers are worthless in the hereafter is because of their disbelief. Unless a person's imaan or aqeedah is not correct, all his good deeds are worthless.


In order to gain Paradise, belief must come first. I gave you lots of Verses on Salat as being the sole passport to Heaven. When a man die, His solat will forst be looked into before any other things.

Now after your belief, your good deeds follows as he said in the last part of the Hadith


Therefore, do good deeds properly, sincerely and moderately, and worship Allah in the
     forenoon and in the afternoon and during a part of the night, and always adopt a middle,
     moderate, regular course whereby you will reach your target (Paradise)."

So you cannot say that your Paradise is guaranteed without belief in Him. Belief must come first before your good deeds. You cant worship what you dont belive in. So whether you are a believer or a non-believer, all your deeds will be shown to you be it good or bad


Quran 4 v 125:Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend.  

Also I want you to know that he forgives all sins so far you have no intention of going into it again


Quran 35v45: If God were to punish men according to what they deserve, He would not leave on the back of the (earth) a single living creature: but He gives them respite for a stated Term: when their Term expires, verily God has in His sight all His Servants.  


Quran 8:38:Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from unbelief), their past would be forgiven for them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).  

Quran 38v66:The Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all between,- Exalted in Might, able to enforce His Will, forgiving again and again.  


Quran53v32:
If we are sincere, our daily sins are almost always forgiven:  "Those who avoid great sins and shameful deeds, only (falling into) small faults,- verily thy Lord is ample in forgiveness. He knows you well when He brings you out of the earth, And when ye are hidden in your mothers' wombs. Therefore justify not yourselves: He knows best who it is that guards against evil.  

Quran 4v110:If you ask Allah Almighty for forgiveness, then He'll forgive you: "If any one does evil or wrongs his own soul but afterwards seeks God's forgiveness, he will find God Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Quran 14v7:If you are grateful to Allah Almighty, then He'll give you more: "And remember! your Lord caused to be declared (publicly): 'If ye are grateful, I will add more (favours) unto you; But if ye show ingratitude, truly My punishment is terrible indeed.'

Quran 39 v 53: Be sure that Allah Almighty is always Willing to forgive all of your sins:  "Say: 'O my Servants who Have transgressed against their souls!  Despair not of the Mercy of Allah:  for Allah forgives all sins for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.  




Quran 10:61 "In whatever business thou mayest be, and whatever portion thou mayest be reciting from the Quran, and whatever deed ye (mankind) may be doing, We are witnesses thereof when ye are deeply engrossed therein. Nor is hidden from thy Lord (so much as) the weight of an atom on the earth or in heaven. And not the least and not the greatest of these things but are recorded in a clear record."

Quran 99:7-8 "Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!  And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it."



  Narrated Abu Dharr:

     The Prophet said, Gabriel came to me and gave me the glad tidings that anyone who died
     without worshipping anything besides Allah, would enter Paradise. I asked (Gabriel),
     ‘Even if he committed theft, and even if he committed illegal sexual intercourse?’
     He said, ‘(Yes), even if he committed theft, and even if he Committed illegal sexual intercourse.”
     (Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 9, Bk. 93, # 579).

Brother, let me explain. Heavens has grades, and you will be in any heaven depending on your belief and good deeds. Now there are some people that will taste Hell for a while and will be moved to Paradise just because they have faith and believe in God and His Messenger. An adulterer who confesses the Shahadah and died will be judged according to his belief and good work, if he deserves Hell, Allah will put him there but the time he would stay be determined by the level of his sin. Hope I have communicated?



Quite to the contrary, the righetous Lord of heaven and earth will not let sin abide His presence. He offers His forgiveness and cleaning of sin in the Name of Jesus Christ the sinless One; and NO worshipper of 'Allah' who dies in their sins (theft, illegal sexual intercourse, etc. included) will EVER enter into paradise:

"For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" (Rev. 22:15).

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor. 6:9-10).

Brother, from christian's perspective, they claimed to be God's son. Does it make sense for God to put his son in Hell for eternity?

Far from that, if you want to judge based on the above, it means, David, Judah, Amnon, Absalom, etc will be inhabitants of Hell fire.

@nossycheek,

You should read your bible, the stories of some prophets that married more than one and some even had concubines

Now read Luke 20 v 27-36 and tell me your understanding of the verses

@babyosis

You own you mouth, you may use it to eat it.


Now which is the real Jesus out of the two

Mathew 2 v 13 – 16: Now when they had departed. Behold an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, rise take the child and his mother and flee to Egypt and remain there till I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child and destroy him. and he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed for Egypt and remained there until the death of Herod.

Note: following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt where they stayed until after Herod’s death in order to avoid the murder of their firstborn by Herod. Herod slaughtered all male infants two years old and under. There were 28 generations from David to Jesus and the annunciation occurred after Mary had conceinved Jesus.


Luke 2 v 22- 40: ( a long story, I can't type)

Note: following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remained in the area of Jerusalem for the presentation (about 40 days) and then returned to Nazareth without ever going to Egypt. There was no slaughter of the infants. There were 43 generations in all and the annunciation occurred before conception.


So sort it out, one left for Egypt while the other didnt.

@pilgrims

Funny how you accused me of dodging your questions.


(a) Muhammad expressed doubts about the message of salvation he preached?

Nooo.


(b) he contradicted himself in both the Qur'an and ahadith on the basis of entering paradise?

Nooooo


(c) the Qur'an and ahadith are saying the same things on guarateeing salvation to Muslims?

Yes

(d) there is a consistent criteria for entering paradise; or just so many ideas that Muhammad wished on the spur of the moment? (no offences meant; and I'll offer why my question is thus worded).

Let me have yours

Then also,

(e) does Islam teach that believing in Muhammad is to believe in Allah?

Yes


(f) can ANYONE enter paradise with ANY sin at all?

Yes


So let me have your denial, hadith and verses from the Quran please

@ndipe



Early christian writings did not support the crucifixion. If you need proof I will supply you in abundance but at the same time am signing out from Muslim-christian debate.

@ndipe

Insert Quote
@Babs, how is the death of Jesus Christ controversial? He died on the Cross and Resurrected on the third day, based on the Gospel, that has proven to be true. Despite assaults on Christianity, the religious movement is growing by leaps and bounds all over the world. The Da Vinci code, while living upto its hype has gradually losts its steam in the country. So tell me, if Jesus Christ did not die, or there was foul play, why is it that in today's technology and advancement, there has not been any concrete proof to substantiate this allegations.\

Read more about Jesus:

[b]INTRODUCTION TO THE GNOSTIC CHRIST

The Essene Nazorean Christ is not quite the same as the Romanized Jesus propogated by the New Testament and modern Christianity. Original Gnostic Christianity had a deeper and better understanding of the real historical Jesus before the coverup and falsification of the record by the Pauline school. In addition, the Nazorean office of Christ is filled by both Yeshu (Jesus) and his female counterpart Maria. On this page we will concentrate on the male aspect of Christ. Correctly identifying the Essene culture and backdrop of Christ's life and teachings is an important component of identifying the true tradition, as is identification of the correct historical record. Jesus WAS NOT a Jew or a believer in the Law of Moses! The New Testament IS NOT an accurate portrayal of His life. He was NOT resurrected in his body which was entombed in Jerusalem next to Miriamne and other members of his family. Yeshu was vegetarian and taught a unique form of Nazorean Gnosis called Nazirutha. The Order of O:N:E: is committed to restoring the original Jesus and the form of Buddhist Christianity expounded by His true sucessors such as the prophet Mani. [/b]

Read more from
http://essenes.net/subindex8.htm



Rather than engaging in frivolous debate, I hope you accept the established FACT that Jesus Christ Died physically, and Rose physically, for the sake of Salvation for the human race.


I don hear Pastor Ndipe, am putting a stop to it.

@donnie

Haba, I am not denying his existence. How could I deny jesus existence when I have his story in my Book.

Thanks for the post anyway.

CHELSEA WILL BE BURIED LIVE

I AM AN ARSENAL FAN. THOUGH NOTING FOR US THIS SEASON, I STILL PREFER MAN. U TO CARRY THE PREMIERSHIP ALONG WITH THE F.A CUS THEY REALLY DERSEVE TO WIN THE TROPHIES.

DID ANYBODY WATCH MOURHINO ON SUNDAY WHEN THEY PLAYED WITH NEWCASTLE, THE MAN NEARLY CRY, HIS END TIME HAS COME, THE REMAINING MATCHES WILL BE HELL FOR HIM

Very interesting thread.

Anyway sha. Gunners rule