₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
In other words, the singularity had always existed.
Is it your Uncaused first cause of the Universe?



You are changing the goalpost. If you claimed the question how did God create himself, are you not insinuating that God (if He exists must be before the big bang) or are you saying God came (if He exists at all) after the big bang?

Physical time didn't exist till after the big bang only because there is no scientific means of going backwards in time before the big bang. But it doesn't mean that time didn't exist before the big bang


Check the logic and trace through it carefully
1. Nothing can come out of nothing
2. But things exist
3. Therefore things have come out of something that had always existed.

The thing that had always existed must be UNCAUSED. This Uncaused thing must be the CAUSE of every other thing. This means this Uncaused "thing" is the First Cause of Everything.

The UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE is just a neutral definition as the primary logical origin of Everything.



I don't care a hoot about Kalam and his thesis
I don't care about what Deists think

However, LOGICALLY, even if you don't want to ascribe the name "God" to the UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE, there is no denying that the UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE exist.

This UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE, could be either an IT or a BEING!

The "uncaused first cause" is a universe creating unicorn..now what

Dtruthspeaker:
"all I I require is evidence for your god" See change of Post. If this is your problem then you should not be in this thread, for in this thread it is settled that God is in Charge!

Of course! if there was the tiniest shred of evidence for your god - or any of the 4000+ gods for that matter. The religion section wouldn't exist. There would be no question. But here we are.


Yes god is in charge. The unproven one who also happened to be the one you were born and indoctrinated into..lmao... you bible humping troll .. Until you have evidence for your god stay off my mentions.

kingxsamz:
This their kind of special pleading no be here o.

It's like creating a rule and when the rule works against one, he says "No, it shouldn't apply to me. I created it." lol

shadeyinka:

Yes, nothing can come out of nothing: and since the universe has an origin at about 13.6 Billion years ago and these comprises EVERYTHING that has mass or occupy space.

Before the Universe is an UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE. As UNCAUSED, it breaks every known scientific and logical rule. From this comes out everything we know as the universe.

This Uncaused first cause could be an IT or a BEING.
If it is an IT, it isn't of material nature: what is its IDENTITY?

If he is a BEING, it validates what Christians have always spoken about.

The age of the universe isn't necessarily an "origin." It's more of time elapsed after the big bang. Like the big bang is just a reference point for where we started counting time in our reality.

The singularity could have existed 10 times longer than that we may never know.

"BEFORE the universe is an uncaused first cause" is another fallacious logically inconsistent statement. Because if you subscribe to the big bang, time did not exist until the big bang. So "BEFORE" could not exist.

Even at that, you just don't get to claim an uncaused first cause existed before the big bang without a convincing evidence to back that claim up. How do we know such thing did exist "before" the big bang?

The term "uncaused first cause" is just a synonym for special pleading at worst, and word salad at best.

Lastly, the Kalam's cosmological argument despite its pitfalls proves a deist god at best. Every religion out there can use it claim their god is true. All they need to do is to insert the names of their gods into the premises of the argument.

Going a step further to tag a particular theist god to it requires even more evidence and far more stronger arguments and less pre-suppositions and appeals to logical inconsistencies and fallacious presumptions.

Dtruthspeaker:
Have you devils argued consistently? Lie here!

Since you devils have altered your weapon of attack, therefore, we have a right to alter our Counter in Rebuttal...lol

Why do I need to argue..all I I require is evidence for your god..Good luck providing what 3 billion+ indoctrinated bible bashers like yourself have failed to do through out history...

shadeyinka:
1. Do you think something can logically or scientifically come out of nothing?
2. If we are sure that things exist, it means they came primarily from a source that HAD ALWAYS existed before any other thing.

1. Nope. Something (including god) cannot come from nothing.

2. Which is the fallacy of the Kalam's cosmological argument for god: Special pleading! "Everything else needs to come from other things EXCEPT god." Why should this be? It is the inconsistency of the Kalam's argument and blows it out of the water.

If anything can exist without a cause, we could just as well conclude that it is the universe itself that is uncaused. -which seems a more reasonable position because the universe is completely physical and requires no appeals to the supernatural or some other unproven reality (e.g heaven, hell, ghosts, spirits etc.).

That's easy, god came from nothing....oh wait.. theists claim something cannot come from nothing..

Oh well when have theists ever argued consistently for their indoctrinated beliefs...lol

In a nutshell, OP is like Atheists say there is no god but there is god in my village who has a lot of deformed worshippers therefore he must be real.

The god in my village must be real because my villagers fear him. Although I believe he is a fake god because that's what christianity tells me but he is also real.


More bullshït from a theist and another classic example of why religion makes people complete fuckïn idiots.

Dtruthspeaker:
Gotcha! And you could proceed no more!

Yes your level of intelligence rendered me totally speechless! Loved how you detected my sarcasm!

sonmvayina:
. It is a spiritual manual..for our walk through life..

I bet I could say the same for the Qur'an, the Torah, the Bagavad Gita and the holy books of pretty much every other religion out there...

Kenn55:
I agree with you. However, the way a lot of Nigerians were taking the election as if whoever wins will put Nigerian interest at heart starting becoming disgusting. Its one thing to love and support a candidate based on one's view but to become emotional and start insulting others is a stupid thing to do. Nigeria will not gain anything whether Trump or Biden is in the white house so why the brouhaha?

Immigration policies will likely be relaxed with Biden so it's not strange to see the excitement of Nigerians, who are one of the top US VISA applicants yearly, regarding the election,

Kenn55:
Nigerians can go and rest.

There is nothing concerning Nigerians with America election. Nigerians should rather face their own country instead of all these nonsense i read online that does not in anyway concern them.

If you understand the dynamics of global politics, you will realise that the person residing in the White House directly or indirectly influences every other person in the world. Especially people in third world countries like Nigeria.

Maybe god would protect people worshipping it in it's own house if it was real and not one hell of a made up lie...

HellVictorinho:
You don't have to secure a visa to know that a country exists.

Same way the probability of encountering the truth has nothing to do with whether the truth exists or not.

The lying con-artist pastors looking to cash out as usual using trendy terms. It is called aggressive marketing.

Smh

When one person believes in stupid nonsensical unproven claims it's called LUNACY.

When a group of people believe in stupid nonsensical unproven claims it's called RELIGION.

Infinite punishment for finite crimes (sins) is only a concept that can come from a sick, masochistic, sadist god who luckily doesn't exist except in the twisted heads of his indoctrinated followers.

HellVictorinho:
You get exposed to its reality by chance.

The probability of me getting to know the truth has nothing to do with the truth. Your chances of securing visa to travel to Canada doesn't mean Canada isn't real.

Enough with the non-sequiturs already.

Africa1234:
hello guys this is 2020
any info and amount to spend on travel to the country listed
(1)Seychelles....any new info and how much will it cost me on travel and can I get a job or will it be possible to establish barbing saloon shop
(2)cape Verde... I heard alot bout the country that it a tourist country..but is it possible to establish a shop
I mean barbing saloon shop
(3)mauritius....any info

please guy's no insult...any info will be appreciate
thanks we are one
❤�

Waiting for a reply to this

Dtruthspeaker:
You have just added this!

it's obvious that you are attempting to insult me and annoy me to leave this thread!

Interesting!

Think of as me giving you a little heads up to pay more attention to discussions before responding. It helps avoid making a complete fool of yourself.

Dtruthspeaker:


author=Bacteriologist

"You have the reasoning of a corn dog.

How would the evidence for a claim: "God created the universe" be "God is good."

That's the most ridiculous response I have ever heard from a theist in a long time. It's like saying I have a dragon-like dog in my backyard and when asked to provide evidence for my claims I reply with "well my dragon-like dog can fly."

You sound like you have no idea how we classify things as evidence or how we would go on presenting it. Your argumentative skills are a total disgrace."

I followed your first comment to wit-
"The funny thing is; I could be praying to a stone or a dog and the possibile answers would be exactly the same three (Yes, No or Wait)."

You get insulted when you fail to pay attention and use common sense.

If you were following correctly, I asked for evidence of Ehisscotch's claims when he said

Ehiscotch:
It doesn't still nullify the statement. God created the Earth and he does what he pleases and sees fit.

He's the God of all the Earth not just Christians but he's a Father to all who are in Christ.

So you did nothing to negate what was written.

When you can't even follow a single page thread properly it's no surprise how your type miss the inconsistencies and numerous lies in the Bible and your entire religion. It's a pity.

Dtruthspeaker:

author=Bacteriologist

"You have the reasoning of a corn dog.

How would the evidence for a claim: "God created the universe" be "God is good."

That's the most ridiculous response I have ever heard from a theist in a long time. It's like saying I have a dragon-like dog in my backyard and when asked to provide evidence for my claims I reply with "well my dragon-like dog can fly."

You sound like you have no idea how we classify things as evidence or how we would go on presenting it. Your argumentative skills are a total disgrace."

I followed your first comment to wit-
"The funny thing is; I could be praying to a stone or a dog and the possibile answers would be exactly the same three (Yes, No or Wait)."

So you really think I was asking Ehisscotch for the evidence of my own first comment.

You must be much more dumber than I thought

Dtruthspeaker:
He did!

But when He came with a little Authority, you fled and nearly died of Fear.

He came again looking like you and you Attempted killing Him.

So, now you have to be happy with the Records of Those Who Accepted Him and Conversed with Him, since you could not bear Him when He came.

Another bullshït response born from a straw man grabbing, unthinking, bible bashing christian.

How very thoughtful of you to know what I was feeling when god showed up "at first."

So the best records of those who accepted an intelligent god and talked with him are not books filled with thought experiments, empirical facts or epistemological theories but stories of mythological events in stone age settings, dragons, unicorns, slavery and how to take virgins as spoils of war.

What an intelligent god you serve! No wonder you sound so intelligent just like him!

Dtruthspeaker:
The evidence is simply that because God is good, you oftentimes get what you requested or even that which you did not ask.

If He was Not Good and yet in Charge, Surely, like Buhari and co have shown you, you will get Nothing!

Your Prayers and Request and Petitions will never be Answered, But This is Not So With God for He Giveth Good Gifts and From oftentimes He grants the requests of all, even those that hate Him, By His Good Policy of "Do Good to All, Do Good to even those who hate you"

That is the Evidence!

You have the reasoning of a corn dog.

How would the evidence for a claim: "God created the universe" be "God is good."

That's the most ridiculous response I have ever heard from a theist in a long time. It's like saying I have a dragon-like dog in my backyard and when asked to provide evidence for my claims I reply with "well my dragon-like dog can fly."

You sound like you have no idea how we classify things as evidence or how we would go on presenting it. Your argumentative skills are a total disgrace.

Really glad the western media is seeing Islam for what it really is, a virus.

It's a great day to say no to religious extremism. UK and other parts of Europe experiencing the great replacement take note.

sonmvayina:
The books are about us, our journey through life...at least that is what the Torah says. Our journey from Egypt to the promised land. It iis/was the roman and Greeks that highjacked it and included the fake story about a dying and rising god...which only belongs to the realm of mythology and Lucifer..

I think it's better to take history lessons and facts from actual history books with mountains of supporting evidence than books like the Torah, Bible and Quran that are filled with mythology and many other sorts of ridiculous bullshït.

jcross19:
until you realized that Allah is useless and toothless dirty... You will see behave like cancer...

Allah is those things but Yahweh, the Christian god is even more useless and toothless dirty.

HellVictorinho:
The truth is determined by chance.

2 + 2 = 4 is a truth.
How is that "determined by chance? "

Ehiscotch:
I asked you to provide evidence against it. Or did you not understand my response?

It should be a walk in the park for you.

Oh, and I would be really disappointed if you fall short.

Where's your evidence FOR it?

You don't get to make claims without any evidence and ask other people to provide evidence against it when you yourself provided none to begin with. It just doesn't work that way.

The burden of proof lies on the claimant. I have said this to you many times, but it seems you christians have trouble grasping simple concepts.

If you can't provide evidence for your claims don't even bother replying. I'm not ready for your mental gymnastic and proof evasion tactics.

jamesid29:
That's an interesting view point.
What makes you think that, if I may ask?
Care to expatiate on your point...

Everything that we know as part of reality exists between the "limits" of space and time. Anything outside the space time concept; is something man cannot comprehend, interact with or use for anything, in anyway whatsoever.

A god outside of space and time is the same as a god that does not exist.

jamesid29:
Well sir, do you believe there is a God or not?
By God here, I mean a pre-existing being outside of space-time and matter who created everything we know & understand in our world.

A god that is outside of space and time is indistinguishable from a god that does not exist.

AbbyBlack:
How does any of this demonstrate a god abeg?

Mental gymnastics from theists when they cannot seem to provide a reasonable argument for the topic at hand.

HellVictorinho:
Actually,you should have "faith in the truth"/ generally--used assessment.
Generally-used assessment is the effect of a social group's exposure to different things.
It's also your possession of something (abstract)that can be applied towards various tasks such as making things,fixing things,storing things and arranging things.
But the one that cannot be applied towards establishing anything that's EXPLICABLE by speech or by action is actually "faith in the false".

I'm not sure this post has anything to do with the point of the discussion.