jamesid29:

Yes in the modern sense in that many of its adherents have a core set of beliefs and positive claims.

Such as.....

sonmvayina:


Yes, that is what they all are...only difference is your parents where Christians..

True

Judybash93:
It's genital mutilation... There's no way around it

Right? Just a case of parents imposing their religious views on their kids in what would be child abuse!

Cutting up your child's genitals permanently because your religion says so. What if the child adopts a different religion or becomes irreligious altogether?

He remains scarred FOR LIFE because the parents imposed their bloodletting religious rituals on him.

Unfortunately, few theists use their brain to think.

MuttleyLaff:
Circumcision was usually already done before God commanded Abraham and the Israelites to circumcise

No where in the Bible is there any mention of man (i.e. human beings) created as a perfect image of God

"And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you,
every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed."
- Gen. 17:12

"¹Then the LORD said to Moses,
²“Say to the Israelites, ‘ A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be unclean for seven days,
as she is during the days of her menstruation.
³And on the eighth day the flesh of the boy’s foreskin is to be circumcised"
- Lev. 12:1-3

"²⁴One night while Moses was in camp, the LORD was about to kill him.
²⁵But Zipporah circumcised her son with a flint knife.
She touched his legs with the skin she had cut off and said, “My dear son, this blood will protect you.”
²⁶So the LORD did not harm Moses. Then Zipporah said, “Yes, my dear, you are safe because of this circumcision.”
- Exodus 4:24-27

The best and safest time to do this is the eighth day because on the eighth day, the amount of vitamin K and prothrombin present is elevated above 100% of normal and it is the only day in the males life in which under normal conditions, this will ever be the case.

So, in this case of circumcision surgery needing to be done, then day eight is the perfect day to have it done, simply because vitamin K and prothrombin are at their peak on that day and as vitamin K and prothrombin are vital to coagulation, that stops bleeding and paves way to healing faster. Apparently blood clotting mechanism does not function fully until the age of six months and is particularly weak in the first two to four days after birth.

Going back to answering the thread's titled question, well, the point of circumcision as commanded by (abrahamic) religion, is God letting Abraham realised that He owns Abraham's "little man" Abraham in cahoot with his wife, were trying to pull a fast one and helping God produce the promised heir. Seven times God had to keep reminding Abraham that He will give him a son through his wife Sarah, but Abraham still went into Hagar. Anyway long story, cut short, at age 99 years old, when Abraham had become impotent and/or infertile, God symbolically used circumcision to covenantally mark Abraham, and then miraculously make it possible for an impotent and/or infertile man and barren woman to produce a son, Isaac the promised child. Abraham's descendants, the Israelites, were commanded to repeat this practice as a memorial

According to the Bible, Abraham was the first man to circumcise his kid. But thank you for admitting the bible is fiction and isn't right about anything.

In the REAL world, Circumcision may date back to before the fiction book, bible was written. So I agree with you on that.


Provide a source for your elevated vitamin k blood level claims on the 8th day from a neutral source because I am well aware of the crooked and lying nature of christian apologists.


Lastly, would you agree with me that circumcision is a violation of the individual's bodily autonomy? If tribal marks on a baby are prohibited because there is no consent and permanently scars the kid, why should cutting the foreskin of the same baby be allowed?


Because a book written in the stone age says so?

budaatum:

No that does not make any sense at all so why did you say it?

Omg lol did you forget that quickly? lmao you said it here:

budaatum:

The evidence is that it is a belief. If it were provided believers would know.

I asked you to provide the evidence that gods do not exist. Because you said "there is SUFFICIENT evidence to categorically claim that gods do not exist."

And you replied with the quoted message. Jeez discussing with you people sometimes is frustrating.

budaatum:

The evidence is that it is a belief. If it were provided believers would know.

The evidence of the belief that gods do not exist is that it is a belief.

Does that really make sense to you?

I am that I am.

Limitless72:
I was told one time that the presence of an Owl mean death.

Whoever told you this either

1. is lying to you shamelessly.

2. knows nothing about nature and animals

3. Has no idea what causes death or how we would go about preventing it.

4. Is a low life animal rights hater and abuser

budaatum:

Some of us are telling you that there is sufficient evidence to categorically state that gods do not exist!

Provide this evidence

MrPRevailer:
You are also hurting the religious people by imposing your evolution laws and immoral perversions, among others, on them.

Atheism gas nothing to do with evolution or the immoral perversion you speak of.

Finallydead:
You really believe man in his current fallen condition bears the image of God, or you believe with all your tendency for sin, you bear God's image? Think again. Circumcision is no longer a physical(though still medically advisable) requirement of God but spiritual

Oh...so there's a spiritual dïck with a spiritual fore skin than needs to be chopped off

The stupidity of religious people knows no bounds

HellVictorinho:

Did you know that it's not advisable to be an atheist in Nigeria?
The more religious you are, the better your chances of being treated as part of the society.
Therefore,any religious person that loses faith in whatever God also has to be careful as he or she can also be regarded as unemployable or as a lunatic, actually.
As a result of this and other things,I think life is an absurdity.
So,people like me await death in whatever inevitable manner.

It was also not advisable to believe the earth was round at a time to prevent being ostracized from society. Many people were alienated from the society or even killed (in the case of Galileo and the catholic church) for daring to "think freely" and away from the common accepted beliefs of the society.

The fear of society is not enough reason to continue to believe in absurd and batshit crazy claims. The argumentum ad populum fallacy exists because people are not perfect thinkers. And many people believing in something does not necessarily make it true.

That said, it can be easier to join the crowd especially when it's a fanatic environment to avoid dangerous situations. I play safe when I'm in public spaces. But I think it's becoming less common for people to be (physically) persecuted for thinking freely in south western Nigeria where I live.

Although, I don't see how that has to do with what Tamara and I were discussing tho, or the OP. Why do you like talking off point?

tosinhtml:


Make Daddy in the Lord come & do 9 - 5 abeg. Then afte
He felt I would be so blown away by hearing everything about my life from someone I never knew. Omo I downloaded TrueCaller & blocked him.

I won't be surprised if these pastors run background checks on their members then tag it prophesies afterwards

Tamaratonye5:
Martian, Bacteriologist, LordTheus et Al

I must commend you guys, I have become rather weary of back and forth exchanges with theists.


I’m reminded of the quote, I accept as true with from Mark Twain: “Never wrestle a pig, you’ll best get dirty, and the pig might enjoy it.”

Your compliments are well noted, Tamarantonye.

I agree it is a huge task bantering with people who have resigned the use of common sense. It is a neck wrecking task trying to reason with adults whose mental capacity are complete ship wrecks no thanks to wholesale brainwashing, dogma and childhood indoctrination.

As hard as it seems, I take solace in the fact that there are religious people whose minds are not nearly as damaged and totally decimated by yampy religious bullshitery. Such people may be seeking answers to the questions that normally rational minds would ask about indoctrinated beliefs.

My discussions with apologists is not to win, per say, but to make other theists on the fence see, first-hand, why religion is a total misnomer and how it brings out the worst in people.

The conversations I read some 3 years ago slowly helped me shed that skin of stupidity and irrationality religion clothed me since I was born. I believe it can do the same for few more people. We must not relent in engaging primitive religious minds. At least I can speak for myself on that.


I, for one, have missed your quite resourceful rebuttals to theist propositions in this section. I have to confess I took an anonymous visit to your profile a few days back. I'm glad you are not too far away from here. Cheers.

Nazgul:

Fornication is already bad enough... don't insult God by commiting more abominations under the guise of praying

Bleep god and his fuckin rules.

how will an omnipotent god create the whole universe and then get pissed about how a dude (on one of the billions of billions of planets) uses his dick

religion is ridiculous

MaxInDHouse:

And as for the war that broke out in heaven you made a mistake there Sir, God's throne is far away from the place where the war broke out.

An omnipresent god was "far away" from where the war broke out. Lmao

More mental gymnastics and clownery from another bible-bashing, unthinking christian apologist.

kingxsamz:


He's been avoiding that question like a plague.

i don't expect less from someone who is merely regurgitating old and outdated debunked arguments. Such apologists have no mind (hence no arguments) of their own!

kingxsamz:


I believe this first cause is a black, transgendered lesbian.

I personally prefer universe farting pixies but I think I might reconsider that choice

A black transgender lesbian being an unmoved mover is definitely a more sexier argument. I'm cracked up for real

kingxsamz:


He does actually, because it sounds ridiculous to him.
Since he claims there's an Uncaused first cause, then anyone who believes this can claim this first cause to be anything they believe it is, even a Unicorn.
Well, as for ne, I believe this first cause is a black, transgendered lesbian.

I know he does! just trying to play along with im perhaps he can see how using the Kalam's argument is him shooting himself in the foot in what would be a theological suicide

Since all gods and even the more ridiculous ones can be proven using the Kalam's argument. I want to know how he came to the conclusion that his own Jewish imaginary daddy behind the clouds is the actual one...lmfao! This is so easy and fun

kingxsamz:


While a universe creating 60 year old white male is your own Uncaused first cause.
Everybody wins.

Checkmate!

shadeyinka:

No!
A universe creating unicorn is YOUR uncaused first cause!

Great. In the same vein, you hopefully wouldn't have a problem with the premise that universe creating unicorns have the same merit as Yahweh or The flying spaghetti monster or Allah or Odin in being the uncaused first cause.

shadeyinka:

If that's your identity for the UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE. A UNICORN...a horse with a single horn.

At least you admit that such is your SOURCE!

Yeah a universe creating unicorn is the uncaused first cause.. hopefully you don't have a problem with that?

"And there was war in heaven..."

You mean there was an uprising right under the nose of an omnipotent god who also has a prince of PEACE as his son!

Like a fight broke out in the most holy of all holy places

Doesn't sound like paradise to me... or a very capable god to me... or a very peace keeping prince to me..lmao.. religion is entirely laughable.

OP why do you stress over poorly written mythology?

shadeyinka:

In other words, the singularity had always existed.
Is it your Uncaused first cause of the Universe?



You are changing the goalpost. If you claimed the question how did God create himself, are you not insinuating that God (if He exists must be before the big bang) or are you saying God came (if He exists at all) after the big bang?

Physical time didn't exist till after the big bang only because there is no scientific means of going backwards in time before the big bang. But it doesn't mean that time didn't exist before the big bang


Check the logic and trace through it carefully
1. Nothing can come out of nothing
2. But things exist
3. Therefore things have come out of something that had always existed.

The thing that had always existed must be UNCAUSED. This Uncaused thing must be the CAUSE of every other thing. This means this Uncaused "thing" is the First Cause of Everything.

The UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE is just a neutral definition as the primary logical origin of Everything.



I don't care a hoot about Kalam and his thesis
I don't care about what Deists think

However, LOGICALLY, even if you don't want to ascribe the name "God" to the UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE, there is no denying that the UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE exist.

This UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE, could be either an IT or a BEING!

The "uncaused first cause" is a universe creating unicorn..now what

Dtruthspeaker:


"all I I require is evidence for your god" See change of Post. If this is your problem then you should not be in this thread, for in this thread it is settled that God is in Charge!

Of course! if there was the tiniest shred of evidence for your god - or any of the 4000+ gods for that matter. The religion section wouldn't exist. There would be no question. But here we are.


Yes god is in charge. The unproven one who also happened to be the one you were born and indoctrinated into..lmao... you bible humping troll .. Until you have evidence for your god stay off my mentions.

kingxsamz:


This their kind of special pleading no be here o.

It's like creating a rule and when the rule works against one, he says "No, it shouldn't apply to me. I created it." lol

shadeyinka:

Yes, nothing can come out of nothing: and since the universe has an origin at about 13.6 Billion years ago and these comprises EVERYTHING that has mass or occupy space.

Before the Universe is an UNCAUSED FIRST CAUSE. As UNCAUSED, it breaks every known scientific and logical rule. From this comes out everything we know as the universe.

This Uncaused first cause could be an IT or a BEING.
If it is an IT, it isn't of material nature: what is its IDENTITY?

If he is a BEING, it validates what Christians have always spoken about.

The age of the universe isn't necessarily an "origin." It's more of time elapsed after the big bang. Like the big bang is just a reference point for where we started counting time in our reality.

The singularity could have existed 10 times longer than that we may never know.

"BEFORE the universe is an uncaused first cause" is another fallacious logically inconsistent statement. Because if you subscribe to the big bang, time did not exist until the big bang. So "BEFORE" could not exist.

Even at that, you just don't get to claim an uncaused first cause existed before the big bang without a convincing evidence to back that claim up. How do we know such thing did exist "before" the big bang?

The term "uncaused first cause" is just a synonym for special pleading at worst, and word salad at best.

Lastly, the Kalam's cosmological argument despite its pitfalls proves a deist god at best. Every religion out there can use it claim their god is true. All they need to do is to insert the names of their gods into the premises of the argument.

Going a step further to tag a particular theist god to it requires even more evidence and far more stronger arguments and less pre-suppositions and appeals to logical inconsistencies and fallacious presumptions.

Dtruthspeaker:


Have you devils argued consistently? Lie here!

Since you devils have altered your weapon of attack, therefore, we have a right to alter our Counter in Rebuttal...lol

Why do I need to argue..all I I require is evidence for your god..Good luck providing what 3 billion+ indoctrinated bible bashers like yourself have failed to do through out history...

shadeyinka:


1. Do you think something can logically or scientifically come out of nothing?
2. If we are sure that things exist, it means they came primarily from a source that HAD ALWAYS existed before any other thing.

1. Nope. Something (including god) cannot come from nothing.

2. Which is the fallacy of the Kalam's cosmological argument for god: Special pleading! "Everything else needs to come from other things EXCEPT god." Why should this be? It is the inconsistency of the Kalam's argument and blows it out of the water.

If anything can exist without a cause, we could just as well conclude that it is the universe itself that is uncaused. -which seems a more reasonable position because the universe is completely physical and requires no appeals to the supernatural or some other unproven reality (e.g heaven, hell, ghosts, spirits etc.).

That's easy, god came from nothing....oh wait.. theists claim something cannot come from nothing..

Oh well when have theists ever argued consistently for their indoctrinated beliefs...lol

In a nutshell, OP is like Atheists say there is no god but there is god in my village who has a lot of deformed worshippers therefore he must be real.

The god in my village must be real because my villagers fear him. Although I believe he is a fake god because that's what christianity tells me but he is also real.


More bullshït from a theist and another classic example of why religion makes people complete fuckïn idiots.

Dtruthspeaker:


Gotcha! And you could proceed no more!

Yes your level of intelligence rendered me totally speechless! Loved how you detected my sarcasm!