₦airaland Forum

@Ubenedictus,

THIS QUOTES WERE CREDITED TO YOU PROGRESIVELY,

k i believe i can work with that.
I sam2:3 ...for d lord is a God of knowledge. Ps147:5 his understanding is infinite. Jn3:20 he knows all things, act15:18 from all eternity, his knowledge is unsearchable rm11:33, beyond measure ps147:5, perfect job37:16. He know what happens on earth ex3:7, from d past act 15:18, he predicts is46:10, gen 18:18, 2kg8:10. This is all abt the knowledge of d divinity.

YES ITS STILL TALKING ABOUT GOD'S QUALITIES HERE,NO MENTION OF JESUS,...STILL WAITING FOR THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS ('' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')

d divinity.
The knowledge of God transcends d knowledge of man is55:8,9 d knowledge God posses is too wonderful for mans mind, it is too high ps139:6. Do you suppose that the limited can totally grasp the unlimited? or that the finite can totally contain the infinity? Do you suppose the human mind can search the divinity? My answer is no. This i present to show u that the infinitness of the divinity would not fit the human mind.

YOU MADE ME LAUGH HERE......HE,HEE,HEEEE!!! ALL THESE YOUR EXPLANATION ABOVE CONCERNING HUMAN LIMITATION HAS BEEN KNOCKED OUT PATAPATA-POROGODO-YAN-AN-YAN-AN;MEANING;ALTOGETHER BY YOUR NOTION THAT

''that the fulness of the Godhead rested on him bodily''

MY BRO,ARE YOU NOT THE ONE WHO SAYS THAT CHRIST IS GOD-INCARNATE? THAT IS CHRIST IS GOD IN HUMAN FORM WHILE ON EARTH,THAT IS 'HE IS STILL THE SAME GOD IN FULNESS,WHILE IN BODILY FORM' SO HIS FULNESS TESTIFY TO THE FACT THAT HIS BODILY APPEARANCE DOES NOT ALTER HIS LIMITATIONS INCLUDING HIS KNOWLEDGE,THE ONLY CHANGES IS THAT OF APPEARANCE ONLY,IF YOU DONT KNOW.

AGAIN YOU ARE YET TO SUPPLY BIBLE VERSE THAT SAYS ('' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')
AS THE ONCE ABOVE ONLY POINTED TO HUMANS LIMITATIONS WHICH IS NOT AN ISSUE HERE,BUT WHERE THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS THAT 'A PARTICULAR KNOWLEDGE THAT GOD-JESUS RECORDEDLY POSSESES BEFORE WAS'NT AVAILABLE TO HIS MIND WHILE THE FULLNESS OF GOD WAS WITH HIM' SHOW US JUST ONE VERSE PLS.

Because of that the human mind he can increase in wisdom as lk2:52 attest.

SOLOMON TOO INCREASED IN KNOWLEDGE,AND THAT DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR ASSERTION OF 'DIVINITY IMFOMING HUMANITY' AND BESIDE,HE IS NOT GOD.

In his divinity he is alike to his father's knowledge.

NO BIBLE VERSE TO SUPPORT THAT!

He is d heir of all things,creation was his work,

HE WAS APPOINTED TO BE HEIR BY HIS FATHER,THE WAY HE WAS BEING CREATED AS THE FIRST OF GODS CREATION,REV 22:8 (NIV)

he reflects the divine glory

YEES!

and bears the very stamp of the divine nature

UNLESS YOU SUPPLY US WITH VERSES THAT SAID IT.heb1:2 DOES NOT SAY THAT!

truly everything has been given to the son, and everything the fada has is his, whoever knows him has known d fada
jn14:7,9,

JOHN 14:7-9 DID NOT MEAN THAT JESUS IS GOD, HOW DO WE KNOW THIS? IN THE NEXT VERSE;
john 14:10 REVEALED 'WHOSE AUTHORITY' JESUS WAS SPEAKING ,HIS FATHER'AUTHORITY' WHICH MEANS THAT IF A DIRECTOR INSTRUCT HIS SECRETARY OR PERSONAL ASSISTANT P.A. TO WRITE A LETTER,ONLY A SIGNATURE HAS CONFIRM WHOSE 'AUTHORITY' THE CONTENT BEARS, WHICH MEANS ITS NOT THAT OF THE SECRETARY OR P.A, BUT THAT OF THE DIRECTOR HIMSELF.BUT THEN,THE P.A OR SEC CAN REPRESENT THE DIRECTOR IN MANY FUNCTIONS,BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM EQUAL.YOU CAN SEE WHAT AUTORITY REPRESENT IN THAT CONSENT.
JESUS ALSO USED THE SAME WORD OF ONENESS WITH THE BELIEVERS SAYING,''FATHER IN ME AS I AM IN FATHER SO THAT YOU CAN BE ONE WITH US'' DOES THAT MEANS THAT BELIEVERS ARE GOD INCARNATE?

and the son knows everything jn16:29-30,

VERSE 30 OF JOHN 16:30 Now we are sure that You know all things, and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God.”
IT AFFIRMS THAT 'JESUS CAME FROM GOD'AND NOT GOD HIMSELF.
SO,IT DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR POINT STILL.

he is the power and wisdom of God 1cor1:24. Like his fada he also predictsmatt24:30 like his father he know what happens on earth rev2:2,9,13,19.3:1,8,15

NOBODY IS DISPUTING THAT HE RECEIVES ALL THIS THROUGH HIS FATHER GOD ALMIGHTY.
SO IN ALL NO BIBLE VERSE SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT WHY ('' why knowledge Of the day and hour'was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')
AND THAT BRINGS US TO THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL QUOTE YOU CITED BELOW;

Infact all the teasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in christ, all Col2:3. So to your question 'why didnt his human nature know the date of the end while on earth?' i posit that on earth all knowledge where hidden in him. His human nature served as a vessel hidding that infinite knowledge that resided in his divinity.

WHEN COLOSIANS 2:3 SAYS,

Infact all the teasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in christ, all Col2:3.

MY GOODNESS!!!DO YOU UNDERSTANDS IT WELL BEFORE YOU JUST GO ON TO MISAPPLICATE IT?

i posit that on earth all knowledge where hidden in him.

IM SURE OTHER TRINITARIANS WILL NOT BE PROUD WITH YOU HERE AT ALL!, BUT LETS GET THE TRUE MEANING FIRST;
THE SENTENCE READ 'TREASURES OF WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE ARE HIDDEN IN CHRIST' AND NOT 'FROM CHRIST' SO,THERE IS NO MENTION OF BODY VESSELS IN THE VERSE AT ALL!! SO WHERE DO YO GET THAT FROM,IS A MYSERY.

SO WHEN YOU HIDE A THING 'IN ANOTHER THING' IT REMAINS IN THAT OTHER THING, BUT WHEN YOU HIDE A THING 'FROM ANOTHER' IT MEANS IT IS UNAVAILABLE TO THE OTHER.
THIS IS JUST ENGLISH LANGUAGE UNDERSTANDING ERROR,ANYWAY NO PROBLEM.
SO IN ALL,THERE IS NO BIBLE VERSE THAT SURPPORT YOUR FORMULATION

he didnt know becos that knowledge isnt in his human mind.
Unless u cant undastand english.
Peace

NOW LETS SEE SOME SURPRISES BELOW,AND HOW YOU CHANGED YOUR WORD,CONTRACDICT YOURSELF,IN YOUR EARLIER POST ON THIS SAME ISSUE OF YOU TO SUPPLY A BIBLE VERSE THAT SAYS(''knowledge of the day and hour'was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human '')

sorry friend, u want to put words in my mouth, i didnt say it 'dwindled' i said that knowledge wasnt available to his human mind.

YOUR CLAIM HERE AFFIRMS THE REASON WHY JESUS COULD NOT TELL WHEN THE END WOULD COME,AND YOUR REASON BEING 'UNAVAILABILITY OF THE KNOWLEDGE TO HIS HUMAN MIND'ABOVE,

ONLY FOR YOU TO CHANGE FROM 'UNAVAILABILITY OF THE KNOWLEDGE TO HIS HUMAN MIND' TO 'A DECISION NOT TO TELL' WHICH MEANS IN HIS HUMANITY FORM,HE ACTUALLY KNEW OR POSSESSES THE KNOWLEDGE,BUT HE ACTUALLY WITHELD THAT IMPORTANT IMFORMATION; (BELOW)...THAT IS CLEARLY CONTRADICTORY SIR!!!

he expressed a decision not to tell becos one would notice that in acts 1 the apostles ask again about the time and he goes on to clarify that it is the will of God that man be ignorant of the times and seasons the father has placed.

So to your question [size=14pt]'why didnt his human nature know the date of the end while on earth?'[/size]

WHERE IS THE BIBLE VERSE HERE SIR THAT SPEAK ABOUT CHRIST KNOWLEDGE IN HIS DIVINITY WAS UNAVAILABLE TO HIM IN HIS HUMANITY! NONE

The end of the world couldnt come from his humanity, it could only be known thru his divinity. An so from his humanity he couldnt really know when the world would end.

IM NOT SAYING THAT HUMANS KNOWLEDGE IS LIMITED,BUT WHERE IS THE BIBLE VERSE THAT ACTUALLY SAYS THIS? WHERE DO YOU GET THAT FROM? DEFINATELY NOT IN THE BIBLE SIR.

but i would disagree with your insinuation that in his divinity Jesus didnt know because my bible shows me that all knowledge is hidden in christ

E MA GBA MI O,(MEANING; CAN SOMEONE HELP PLS)!

Jesus and i would disagree even more with your insinuations that christ Jesus didnt posses divinity because my [size=14pt]bible tells me that he is God and goes on to clarify that the fulness of the Godhead rested on him bodily[/size].

OKAY,IF THE FULNESS OF GOD RESTED ON HIM (JESUS) BODILY, THEN WHY DO YOU ALL SAY ALL THIS BELOW EARLIER JUST READ YOUR QUOTES ONE BY ONE;

UBENEDICTUS QUOTES; 'he didnt know becos that knowledge isnt in his human mind'
'knowledge wasnt available to his human mind'
'His human nature served as a vessel hidding that infinite knowledge that resided in his divinity'.

Truly i join in saying that great is the mystery of the divinity.

THE ONLY MISERY HERE IS KNOWN, AND THAT IS YOUR OWN INCONSISTENCIES,AND UNDERSTANDING OF SIMPLE ENGLISH LANGUAGE,EHN,SO GODS WORD IS PURE AND CLEAR.

I HAVE EARLIER WARNED YOU THAT THE ARGUMENT IS ALREADY LOST, IM SURE BRO OLAADEGBU WILL NOT BE HAPPY SEING THIS. I HAVE JUST FOUND SOME NEW FLAWS NOW, LETS GO ON NOW...

@ubenedictus,

i have answered your question about 'God's infinite knowledge' in my post above(first post of this page) so im waiting for yours,thanks

@Ubenedictus

Im not denying that God Almighty do have infinite knowledge pls;

if i had a passage that said exactly that it wouldnt even make a difference, i wouldnt even see the need of posting it. If a christian would deny that God has infinite knowledge just so he would feel good about a discussion i wouldnt like to waste time giving him more thing so he could just deny them.
Peace

and let me back it up now choosing one of numerous verses that i have;

isaiah 46:9-10;

9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’

this above quote support 'my own' assertion that God do have an infinite knowledge because i have back it up using our common constitution here;the bible,

so the same way that i expect you to back up your own claim and not mere verbal opinions,it has to rest on a bible verse,so give us bible verses that says that ;

.[size=14pt]'' knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human ''
[/size]

waiting pls,at least i have answered yours.

@Ubenedictus

Dear barristers
if i have a list of people who suprise me d most, i would put your name would be among the 1st 10, you claim victory even before d end of a contest, [b]and u even claim victory [/b]as though u were in a debate with judges. As it seems you are more inclined to the winner-loser mentality i would love a debate.

of couse tthere is victory here isn'nt it? because suddenly there are nomore bibleto quote from,and that signal the end,or you still have any bible verse to quote?then back up the last claim here again,im waiting;

''why knowledge was not available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human ''

waiting for answer pls.

@Ubenedictus, ihedinobi should ignore this,i thought it was ihedinobi.
so,Ubenedictus,

well dear friend it seems u didnt even start the discussion from the bgining becos if u did u would have seen my posts the bgining and not insinuate that 'i joined myself to the issue'

i hate to use some words expecially when i have tried to give someone some respect, but how can i help this when you are sounding in this way in above quote,

pls hear me again in english language again,you even quoted it without understanding it,see the bolded blue letter below;

[size=14pt]The discussion lately was between myself and bro OLAADEGBU[/size], maybe he could not sustain it or whatever,by not replying my demanding posts consecutively, you joined yourself to the issue perfectly,

whats the meaning of lately,
from online dictionary

.lately.
adverb recently, of late, just now, in recent times, not long ago,

i used the word 'lately' before saying that 'you' joined the conversation between myself and olaadegbu,which also means that using any of the options above shows that im not saying that i started with the tread but that the latest posts on this particular page is where you actually joined yourself with olaadegbu and myself on a particular aspect of the issue concerning jesus saying 'that he and the father are one the same way that he said that christians will be one with him the way he is one with the father God'.

so if you dont consider what i said using the word 'lately' well there is nothing that i can do about it.

@ihedinobi

well dear friend it seems u didnt even start the discussion from the bgining becos if u did u would have seen my posts the bgining and not insinuate that 'i joined myself to the issue'

i hate to use some words expecially when i have tried to give someone some respect, but how can i help this when you are sounding in this way in above quote,

pls hear me again in english language again,you even quoted it without understanding it,see the bolded blue letter below;

[size=14pt]The discussion lately was between myself and bro OLAADEGBU[/size], maybe he could not sustain it or whatever,by not replying my demanding posts consecutively, you joined yourself to the issue perfectly,

whats the meaning of lately,
from online dictionary

.lately.
adverb recently, of late, just now, in recent times, not long ago,

i used the word 'lately' before saying that 'you' joined the conversation between myself and olaadegbu,which also means that using any of the options above shows that im not saying that i started with the tread but that the latest posts on this particular page is where you actually joined yourself with olaadegbu and myself on a particular aspect of the issue concerning jesus saying 'that he and the father are one the same way that he said that christians will be one with him the way he is one with the father God'.

so if you dont consider what i said using the word 'lately' well there is nothing that i can do about it.

@Myjoe,
Im not a mouth piece of jws,because i have explained my stand earlier,but i need to point some things out;

Why does the church’s leadership not allow Christians to decide for themselves in matters of medical treatment when the Bible is not clear on the matter? For example, blood transfusion, vaccines and organ transplant.

im revisiting this quote again to draw home some points.

It is a fact that that jws members did not make a complain about their leadership,neither do they complain of any leader or overseers robbing them on their decision-making in matters of medical treatment,and so your cry here as regards the unexisting issue of 'church’s leadership not allowing Christians to decide for themselves in matters of medical treatment' looks very empty and misleading,until you supply us a legitimate issue here,one that can be confirmed,and not the type that was unfounded which you related here earlier this way;(Your-friend's-classmate's-mother-back-in-the-day's)and attempt to shed more light on the matter proved abortive as you declined not to go into detail,only to have an afterthought on mentioning a name but in another encounter when you alledged to be 8 yrs old,to make up the story,while the first one concerning the woman was abandoned by you, so supply a legitimate issue that you can sustain here that the jws leadership was accused by a victim of not allowing him or her to decide in matters relating to blood.i will be glad to see that so that we can continue from there.but as it is now,nothing like that exist.

your above quote again above,is uncalled for the first place in its entirety,
and nothing appart from a seeming fabricated and a calculated attempt as you make it sound as if someone is being denied an advantange like the one that cause eve to commit the first sin,innorder to discredit the leadership of jehovahs witneses by unfounded allegations which do not even exist,or which the members do not even share or aware of, why do i say that;

1, you are the only one at least on this forum who in your own discretion, accuses the leadership of jws of 'not allowing Christians to decide for themselves in matters of medical treatment when the Bible is not clear on the matter' jumping several issues progresively such as;

(1)you did not even accept the fact that their leaders are even qualified to lead them in the first place,and maybe the members share the idea with you that they accept the direction of their leadership or not,

before

(2)proceeding on blood related matters,

and

(3)the issue that maybe the bible is clear or not

or

(4)what constitutes ones acceptance of the bible inspired instructions,and the fact that if Myjoe sees the Bible as a mere textbook filled with opinions or that should not be taken so seriously,or Myjoe's personal belief that the bible is filled with ambiguities, and based on that every other member of jws should accept Myjoe's eye opener at all cost,and that since there are alledged posibilities that makes the bible ambigous and as such the jw members should now go on to demand that the leadership should denounce belief from following bible counsels found in the bible due to an alledged ambiguity and follow Myjoe's own concept.

and its just laughable when you said that bible is not clear on the matter of Blood.instead of telling me that Myjoe is not clear,now myjoe in a desperate bid to create a case where there is none choose to speak for people who dont even share his own view and idea talkless of talking on their behalf(i will touch that briefly)

and after explaning to you and proving to you that the members of jws 'willingly studied and make reseach on their own,can choose to signify their intention to be a full member by baptism'or may choose not to,and that does not stop the person from participating in some aspect of the worship or being greeted as a brother/sister, and therefore if one choose to proceed for baptism,then he or she have accepted the leadership's direction from God,which is different from 'surrendering freedom to choose' as you further put it below;did i mention 'surrender?' but you have just help me to fill in the gap,making the sentence misleading;

that people willingly agree to surrender their freedom to choose in these matters, therefore, they can’t complain.

this proclamation above on your part after explanations now shows that there is the need to pay moore attention to how you understands,and your standards used in evaluating matters rather than feeding you with more and more facts.

let me put something forward here to prove you wrong,and pls dont think that i want you to be convinced,but because your standards used for understanding scriptural matters still need to be known first, then discussed and evaluated to form possibly common grounds with the bible standards, or maybe it may not even be outrightly neccesarily to try that dialogue .

But get these straight;

No member of jws is under coersion of anytype from their leadership not to accept blood, but a member choose on his own wheather to take a blood or accept an alternative blood boosting medications.

this is a decision that a member choose to consider when he/she weigh considering his/her full trust on the bible's inspired guidance on blood issue,here are some scripture that a member on his/her own considers first to make his/her decisions based on clear instructions which he or she belived, an instruction being agreed upon durind the first christian era;

In a conference occurred in 49 C.E., in which the apostles and older men of Jerusalem who served as a central body of elders for all Christians held a discussion. In this discussion, Jesus’ half brother James brought to the council’s attention certain essential things that he deemed important to include in their decisions, in particular, "to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood." (Acts 15:19-21)

He referred back to the writings of Moses, which reveal that even before the Law was given, God had disapproved of immoral sex relations, idolatry and the eating of blood, which would include eating the flesh of strangled animals containing blood.
There are two different issues that are sorted out;

1,Among the Christian gatherings were the jewish law teachers,[b]who still canvassed the need for non-jews known as gentiles to get circumcised as it used to be before under the law,so as to be to be reconcilled to the christian faith,and it was noted this way;
Acts 15:23-25;
23 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law” —to whom we gave no such commandment—

but

A formal declaration in verse 16-17 evidently showing that the gentiles or non-jews have been reconciled with God and circumcision's burden which they trouble the non-jews with is now unneccesary,this way (bold)

Acts 15:19 and
19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:

verse 15 above shows the extent of the burden,that is the circumcision, but were they given outright freedom?no, how we knew this can be read in later part of verse 28 '' than these necessary things''

pronouncing the content of verses 29 ' these necessary things':

29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.[g] If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

looking at the greek meaning of abstain as used in the context will not mean the same thing with myjoe's own meaning;

ἀπέχομαι

apechomai

ap-ekh'-om-ahee

[size=14pt]to hold oneself {off}[/size] that {is} refrain: - abstain.

so,a true christian accept this as inspired direction from God throungh his servants/leaders.

This is a just a typical mentality of some lagosians, they always like to take advantage of a perceived wrongdoing to rope you into a calamity.

last three years 2009, in almost the same area of ikota-lekki lagos,it was the at ilaje street after ikota,i hired a truck to move some load from ilaje street, unknowinly the roof of the truck happens to cut an electric wire,and you need not be told how unstructured wires were connected to the pole carelessly was very close to the ground, i agreed to fix the wire back,only for some group of people to come to the scene and ask me to come into a next compound that their 2phased meter was burnt as a result of the wire that was cut,i went there and touch the meter it was very cold,and not even warm,but before i reach there,they have already awashed the meter with sands, i try to make them understand that there was no proof that shows that it has just occured,a woman who was trying to caution them that it is not good to make me responsible was shouted down and rushed out of the scene, i demanded to see the nepa controlling the area,only for me to see some faces previously at the scene accompanying the nepa vehicle to the scene and the yoruba ones of the nepa officials conspired on the issue, infact two of the hired truck tires were deflated already,so i have to cough out N15,000 forcefully, to protect the truck from vandalisation.
But just few months later, fire razed the whole left side of ilaje street due to those illegal electric connections and all the houses including the house that conspired against me were razed down to ashed,i was told and i later visited the scene.

Well,im not saying that im happy at the later,but the rate at which some lagosians wants innocents to suffer callamities at all cost,is noteworthy and should be discouraged.im not also saying that one should get himself into avoidable problems.Thanks.

@ihedinobi

nobody is saying that he or she would not believe the trinity,but it has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt,you need to sink overwhelming facts pointing to God and jesus as not the same.

My final submission: if you don't believe in the Trinity of God, you do not know the salvation of God. If, like Frosbel, you believe that Jesus is God but that God is not a Trinity, your salvation is fine, but your effectiveness for God is under tremendous limitation.

No man can lay claim to the Salvation of God whose salvation is not founded entirely on the revelation that it was God Who became man to set men free from their enmity toward God and bring them into family relationship with Himself. Knock yourself out attacking this position.

Edited.

you can only prove,using sound bible quotes,and not what the pope or father is telling you from the youth that sounds real to you but when you finnally test your knowledge,you are disappointed that there is no bible verse to sustain your point.
so prove,prove,prove to counter the last claim here from the bible that;[size=18pt]''why knowledge was'nt available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate''[/size]
simple and i will believe you, waiting pls

so u need a bible verse to inform u that divine knowledge is infinite?
Do u also need a bible verse to inform u that ur human mind is finite?
You really want to play the dull boy uh?
And u also nid a verse to inform u that d divine infinite knowledge cannot fit into a finite mind right?
Yeah if u nid a bible passage to inform u of that then i really dont see a reason for this discussion, because for d first time in my life i meet a xtian wu doesnt know that God is infinite in knowledge.
Peace

so prove to me all these above in the bible,thats the only way we can understand the position of the bible from humans infusions.

@Ubenedictus

bros,

in a contest, there must be a winner,and a looser, a winner will not neccesarily always win while the looser will not always loose but will always win at times too, but only in africa we dont accept defeat easily until it drags one into the mud,thereby making recovery more difficult.

The discussion lately was between myself and bro OLAADEGBU, maybe he could not sustain it or whatever,by not replying my demanding posts consecutively, you joined yourself to the issue perfectly,and i was expecting your well analysed bible quotes to defend and counter defend points until we get to a point where 'the chaff would have been all removed so as to remain only grains'.

you should know by now that if any gospel does not or cannot be reconcilled with the main ideas available in all the verses contained in the sacred scriptures also know as the bible,then it is to be rejected and abandoned in whole,irrespective of who pronounced such gospel;maybe pastor,bishop,pope even an angel,...we are to reject it;

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

we received Gods words through (holy writtings), and not based on an individual opinions (verbal) more so, the scripture has already been completed so addition and no subtraction the according to book of revelation.

again,we are to test all spirits wheather they are of God,or originate from God or from false prophet who misinterprete Gods word;

1 John 4:1-6
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

so you can understand what i mean now that you should back up your last claim here which you term 'divinity informing humanity' you need to expecially highlight with scriptures someone whose divinity status could not communicate with his humanity status, so that we can be very sure that the concept or the assertion is from the bible and also a sound and acceptable bible teaching that has passed the test expected of it, so it is not a fight,...just look at it this way;

in an English language comprehension test,you are given a paragraph to deliberate on,and answers must be drawn from the supplied paragraph and not outside it, any answer outside the paragraph supplied or outside the boundary will not be entertained,so also is our debate, the bible is our 'constitution' here and any notion formulated outside the bible standard that cannot be backed by the bible is unacceptable,it may be hard,but that is just thetruth, this is to safeguard true christians from false teachings.
your post below is going ridiculous,as it is evident here that your sustaining the argument is without any substance,how can you prove what you said below;

sorry friend, u want to put words in my mouth, i didnt say it 'dwindled' i said that knowledge wasnt available to his human mind.

failure to quote just one bible verse to back up [b[size=18pt]]''why knowledge was'nt available to jesus human mind when he is God incarnate in human is contradictory''[/size][/b] and further cross examinations will expose you to something that i wouldnt like,its laughable anyway,but if you read my discussion with olaadegbu very well i even went extra mile into hebrew/greek translations used then to translate the old and new testaments respectively to draw out meanings used in a particular context and which he did not or have not yet argued.

so my brother we agree to disagree or disagree to agree, we are friends,you have lost this argument unless you supply the bible verse to back up your claim above,thanks and God bless you in all your ways.

common guys, you know the end of this discussion will be no agreement, what's the point

at least the grain will be separated from the chaff!!

@Ubenedictus
and if you dont accept defeat here in the sense that what you wrote below were mere formulations;

unless his humanity is informed by his divinity he (jesus)truly didnt know d date d world would end

can you quote a bible verse to back it that ''unless his humanity is informed by his divinity''.

@ubenedictus

pls read your post loudly here;

so unless his humanity is informed by his divinity [b]he (jesus)[/b]truly didnt know d date d world would end. So yes dear friend God never wanted humans to know d date of d end and thus that knowledge was kept from humanity.

bros, i rest my case, accept defeat!!!

my last post? where?

show us where the bible say clearly that the father God and the son jesus christ have the same nature,quote it out pls.

im not talking of 'same image' because humans too are said to be created in Gods image,but same in everything such that no one is greater than another

@ubenedictus

the trinitarians never said the father and Jesus are one person, they said father and son are one in nature. U are arguing a case that wasnt made, a worthless arguement.

If you are following the tread,you wouldn'nt have made this mistake,

It was OLAADEGBU that quoted john 10:30; 'i and the father are one' to support his point that jesus is same as God,
so the verse does not say one in nature, neither does it says one persons, this is not a case of someone making a case on my side,but that the choice of bible verse does not affirm jesus to be God since 'one' can mean anything since it is not used alongside any qualifier.

for example,in the same book of john;

john 17:21

''That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me''.

well i believe christians have dsame spirit d fada and son has d same nature. I cant find any arguement.

i dont expect you to have any argument,first it wasnt directed at you,and secondly john 17:21 was meant to be read alongside john10:30,

that is,if john 10:30 which says 'i and the father are one' could mean that jesus is God himself,or let me put it to your own understanding,does the 'one' as used in john 10:30 mean 'one nature'? and if yes,since the one used there is the same in translation with the 'one'used in john17:21, john 17:21 says ''That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me''.
then all christians are God or equal with God bsaed on john 17:21 above,the same way the so called the son and the holy spirit are claimed to be equal with God,isn'nt it?

he and d father has more than one purpose, they have one nature, the father is God and so is d son.

im dying here with laughter,there can only be one purpose at a particular time in a particular context,so if jesus is saying that himself and the father are one in a particular matter here,pls dont muddle it up,there can be different purpose at a time,but one must be agreed upon after one another,so,
show us where the bible say clearly that the father God and the son jesus christ have the same nature,quote it out pls.

actually i didnt see the any good point.

you are not expected to see any,but rather to make good points so that we can debate it,many of trinitarians could not sustain the heat,so we are waiting for yours,oya now!

@ubenedictus

Mathew 24:36;
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
or why is jesus saying this to himself;

Matthew 27:46

46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[a] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”)
[size=14pt]that only proves that Jesus was a man[/size]

so being a human makes jesus not to share the same knowledge of 'the day and hour?' please explain it well,dont just breeze through it like that, explain why jesus in humans form would know that he is one with God but would not share same knowledge.

@OLAADEGBU

im happy that you quoted this bible verse below to affirm your point;
John 10:30-33

This is another clear passage teaching that Jesus is God: (Christ speaking)

"I and the Father are one." Again the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but Jesus said to them: "I have shown you many miracles from the Father, for which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

When studying the original Greek of Jesus' statement "I and the Father are one," the word translated "one" means one in essence, or nature, not merely one in purpose.

There are a lot more.

There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up “one God.” The phrase was a common one,the same greek translstion used for paul and apollos,a neuter form,but can you deny the fact that jesus did not say ''i and my father are one person?''and that wisdom demands that since the word 'one' was an open word and two persons that are reffered to 'we' are not in the 'neuter' sense since it did not specifically say 'i and my father are one person' ,then we have to verify other options,

for example,in the same book of john;

john 17:21

''That [size=18pt]they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us[/size]: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me''.

why not consider the verse above to add to the trinity? and refusal to do so is called 'cherrypicking'.
Even today if someone say 'i and my father are one', people would know exactly what he meant—he and his father are very much alike. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, [size=14pt]“he who plants and he who waters are one” [/size](1 Cor. 3:8 – KJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up “one being.” Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as “he who plants and he who waters have one purpose.” Why translate the phrase as “are one” in one place, but as “have one purpose” in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ’s statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father’s will; he and God have “one purpose.”

Christ uses the concept of “being one” in other places, and from them one can see that “one purpose” is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God’s children “one.” In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be “one” as he and God were “one.” We think it is obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being or “substance” just as he and his Father were one being or “substance.” We believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose.
The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively that Jesus was referring to the fact that he had the same purpose as God did. Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the “sheep,” the believers, who came to him. He said that no one could take them out of his hand and that no one could take them out of his Father’s hand. Then he said that he and the Father were “one,” i.e., had one purpose, which was to keep and protect the sheep.

and lastly,see some strong verses that destroyed any of your affirmation to seperate persons in God.

if jesus is God himself,why would jesus not share same knowledge with God here;


[size=14pt]Mathew 24:36;
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.[/size]
or why is jesus saying this to himself;

Matthew 27:46

46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[a] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”)

you knew that you trinitarians have lost this argument,but lets go now!!!

@OLAADEGBU

All I can make sense of in your treatise is that you want to know where almighty God is used to depict the Lord Jesus Christ.

Here are a few scriptures.

In John 8:58 Jesus says,

"Before Abraham was, I am."

where is the answer here? is 'i am' Almighty God? i tire o!
and if this is an english language comprehension class,the answer is wrong.

let me explain better again,
the word 'God Almighty' defines itself,it stands out and unique, also its self explanatory even to a novice without an infussionhty;All-mighty-God shows unequal might or power of one God. and that prove to be so when he said that 'he is a jealous God'.he doesnt share his worship with anybody or image,but through his son,our prayers are channelled.

but using your claim below 'i am' is just too weak;

I AM was the most revered divine name of God in the Old Testament (Ex. 3:14). Christ was not merely claiming that He existed before Abraham, but that He was still in existence before Abraham. Dr. A.T. Robertson, one of the greatest Greek scholars who ever lived, had this to say about John 8:58 after translating it "I am":

"Undoubtedly here Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God."

common,is 'i am' carrying any serious message? either its typed in uppercase or lowercase and anybody can read millions of meanings to it because of the wide holes that the interpretation accomodates,you have a distinct name,your own dialect name that the true meaning can be read in short form in the same sylables without neccesarily giving openings to millions of interpretation. okay do i make any meaning if i just walk up to a gathering and say 'i am',will i be taking seriously, so if you have a distinct name with embeded meaning,why not God?Gods name revealed who he was,

but unfortunately the trinitarians deliberately refuse to use it in order to throw people into confusion;

compare these two bible translaions below,and see that 'lord'was used to replace Gods real name;
Exodus 6:2-3
New King James Version (NKJV)
2 And God spoke to Moses and said to him: “I am the Lord. 3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name Lord [/b]I was not known to them.

Exodus 6:2-3
King James Version (KJV)
2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord.

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, [b]but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

How can God said 'i am the lord' but by my name 'lord' i was not known.of course lord can be used for even humans,i.e court judges,or a woman may tell her husband..my lord.

but God Almighty stands out from lord,or 'i am' which God did not share with anybody.

Others are:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." --Revelation 22:12,13

A number of persons are represented by the Angel as speaking in this chapter,dont muddle things up here pls, vs 8-9,the angel spoke to john,verse 16 applies to jesus. first part of 17 is credited to 'the spirit and the bride,and the one speaking in vs 20 is john himself,while vs 12-15 apply to God himself.
Dont get confused by the expression in your quote above

"And, behold, I come quickly;

it does not mean that it was jesus that was speaking,inasmuch as God also speak of himself concerning the judgement day by also using same expression in 1saih 26:21 below,,

Isaiah 26:21
New International Version (NIV)
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;

and also to distinguish God from his son,God actually reffered to his son to be the one coming to carryout his own order,see below;

Malachi 3:1
3 “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. Then the Lord you are seeking will suddenly come to his Temple. The messenger of the covenant, whom you look for so eagerly, is surely coming,” says the Lord of Heaven’s Armies.

you make me laugh here below, who told you that jesus was the one on the throne,

Revelation 21:5-7 reads:

"He who is seated on the throne said "Behold, I make all things new" And he said unto me, "Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."

Here God says that He is the beginning and the end. In Revelation 22:12,13, Jesus (see 22:16) says that He is the beginning and the end:

REV 5:7 and psalm 110:4 shows that jesus 'the lamb' was not the same as the one on the throne but 'the one on the right hand' of the throne.

"Behold I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."

Jesus clearly shows that He is God by saying things about Himself that only God can say about Himself.

jesus cannot show that he is God,but God himself declared below who is coming as his messanger,jesus also described in verse 2 here as 'he';
Malachi 3:1-6
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Coming Messenger

3 “Behold, I send My messenger,
And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek,
Will suddenly come to His temple,
Even the Messenger of the covenant,
In whom you delight.
Behold, He is coming,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
2 “But who can endure the day of[b] His coming?[/b]
And who can stand when He appears?
For He is like a refiner’s fire
And like launderers’ soap.

@Tunnytox

@BARRISTERS
For the sake of putting the record straight I will drop this quick note for you, you see all the Bible verses you qouted does not in any way relates to the topic. Firstly, be truthful to yourself for once if you have not read and interprete PTB message with a prejidiced mind I'm sure you'll see it in a different way. I don't attend PTB's Church as I don't live in Nigeria but having listened to many of his messages either on youtube and on AIT international I'm more than convinced within myself as a Xtian that he's God's own man.

Secondly, if you read your Bible very well you'll see that even Jesus Christ our Lord proclaimed curses on the pharisees and the saducees who are more like the politicians of then. trying to potrays the Bible and Jesus teachings as one which advises Xtians to be passive, turning other cheeks, waiting for manna by praying alone is not only daft but ridiculous. And talking about PTB preaching politics in the Church, please tell me if you could separate yourself from the reality of the world you lived in?, can you win souls on empty stomach? one of the main role of pastors is to sentitize their members about their rights and how to fight for it. The time of manna has gone and praying without work brings nothing.

If you've concluded within your mind that PTB is fake fair enough but be sure that truly you have reached this conclusion without bias and only by the guidance of the holy spirit. Many of the respected men of God today that many of our Xtian borthers refer to as Daddy etc has deviated from their calling, go to Church every Sunday and almost none of them is preaching about salvation, all of them have now focussed on tithes, offerings and seed sowing forgeting that Jesus himself advised us not to store our treasures in this world. PTB is the only Pastor that I know that never preaches about or coarce his church members to pay tithes or sow 'seeds' many of the present day MOG's cannot survive without these seeds because that is their way of robbing people of their hard earned money.If truly all these MOGs want to follow the Bible to the last they should do what the apostles did after the baptism of holy spirit, none of the apostleslook after themselves alone but the looked after the church as a whole. All early Xtians shared what they all have together, some sold their houses, plots of lands etc and divided among themselves to make sure no member of the church lacks anything. However, today we have MOGs that have private jets and own Universities that even members of their own congregations could not afford to send thier children to, yet these same MOG rants on the pulpit every Sunday telling all who cares to listen that they are rich and that members of their church who are not rich are simply not sowing enough! None of these MOG ever crticise the govt for their corruption and impunity yet they are suppose to look after their flock who are being molested daily by these so called political elites.

Talking about PTB participartion in politics, I've said it before and I'll say it again that this is 100% Biblical and there is nothing wrong in it. In fact we need more Xtians and MOGs especially those you think are holy to come into politics to sanitise it otherwise we'll leave the destiny of this great country in the hands of thieves.Vieing for a political post is the SAME THING AS APPLYING FOR A JOB NO MORE NO LESS. its only in Nigeria that you see politics as a dirty game here in the UK my local MP is a practising lawyer and whenever he's not in Westminster he's either at his local surgery meeting his constituents or in his legal firm doing his job. And for those claiming that contesting as Buhari's running mate make him unequally yoked with unbelievers, they are simply ignorant and deluded when is working with muslims make you unequally yoked? How many of these so called xtians can do without dealing with muslims, atheists and traditionalists on daily basis? Many of them would even gladly accept to wipe dangote's bum for money and go to their churches the next Sunday to give testimony of how God provided a lucrative job for them with Dangote.

I'm not going to say more than this for now and mind you I'm not trying to convince you or any other person to agree with my point of view I believe we'll give account of ourselves to God almighty one day.
Finally, let me advise you that as a Xtian you're are not exhibiting the fruits of the spirit by calling PTB names like harlot, etc. If truly you are a Xtian do some soul searching and free yourself from indoctrinated Xtianity that is prevalent now in Nigeria and allow the Holy spirit himself to minister to you, you'll be surprised why you have been living in darkness for such a long time.

There is no substance inanywaywhatsoever at all in all what you wrote here, i will be back tommorow as usual with a piece of reply.

@naturalwaves
Now you want to see why i have to go that far (the quote below in green);

*smiles*....U must be really furious.Ur writup was again not devoid of it's usual characteristics I pointed out earlier on.If I may ask,ow come U know much of d bible and quotes it at d slightest opportunity yet ur behaviour doesn't potray someone that understands the bible particularly with d way u rain abuses and curses?I doubt if U understand d bible U read.Why don't U just work on urself first of all before U pick on Tunde Bakare.

first of all,purpose of people coming to his the church is being defeated,...he is reffered to as an overseer presiding over people who cherished why jesus died to save them,people who want to learn ways to love God, and love their neighbors to improve peaceful co-existence,which all other law hangs.
Most people that came to christ even the disciples are poor,and jesus never condemn them but encourage them,lifting their soul;

Luke 6:20
New King James Version (NKJV)

20 Then He lifted up His eyes toward His disciples, and said:

“Blessed are you poor,
For yours is the kingdom of God.
compare jesus statements above(without adding some abracadabra-the-more-you-see-the-less-you-understand philosophical viruses,that gives a totally brainwashing meaning to kill the true meaning)
compare it with your own statement below;

PTB replaced 'Jonathan' with 'the shoeless'.When Jonathan takes over,he becomes clueless...when 'the shoeless' takes over,he becomes clueless

which hereinafter means that;his 'shoesless state'also understood to be his 'poor background' is largely responsible or actually makes him clueless.and the statement is coming from a church sermon,what a heresy?jesus promotes one thing,and bakare is promoting another,but both bakare and buhari needs naturalwaves to break their loose statements down to be understood,abi.

recognising the dangers posed by some so-called christians who posseses some knowledge,among the first christians,these ones are determined to cause divisions in the church,which is against the cooperative loving spirit championed by jesus,paul wrote;

Jude 1:3-5
New King James Version (NKJV)

3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. [size=14pt]4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God[a] and our Lord Jesus Christ.[/size]

and so,since my rebuke was on the ground that Bakare has denied the church members what christ instructs,but he rather tends to use church sermons to promote divisions and hatred like those reffered to above,

i have the priviledge to 'rebuke sharply Mr bakare because he is not sound in faith',see below;

Titus 1:10-14
New King James Version (NKJV)

10 For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole households, teaching things which they ought not, [size=18pt]for the sake of dishonest gain.[/size] 12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.
so,it is in order to 'sharply rebuke' to save true christians from contracting the virus that bakare is promoting, so as to lead people in the right direction of christ,and not hate promoted by politics.

let bakare denounce being a church overseer,simple, and stop using that platform to promote disciples for buhari for 'dishonest gain'(titus1:11above),period.

@naturalwaves

olodo plus onijekuje-omo-awabeaya-to-da-eko-onini-to-tun-un-bere-change. so if someone bears bridgestone then he must be a tire,oponu alaini-ironu, you better get rid of the virus transmitted to you by harlot-bakare-baba-agbaya-alaini-ironu-oponu-ara-galatia.

There is no other tread to mess bakare up than this tread,
you know what,bakare is polluting christianity,its unacceptable using that platform, and let me show you a fact here;

he is portraying jonathan as uneducated and 'shoeless' right, then when he bakare was wallowing in abject poverty and was to be an almajiri born into a polygamous muslim family,abandoned with his mother, if you dont know and even if you know it goes to no issue,

but must one attain richness and education before lead Gods people,and turned around to mislead?
peter and john are overseers,but do not even need much education, and have to leave their fish business to promote gospel and not politics, read below;

Acts 4:13,14
13 When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus. 14[b] But since they could see the man who had been healed standing there with them, there was nothing they could say.
[/b]
but they actually performed miracles unlike fake harlot-bakare, and until he drop that 'pastor' he remain to be condemn. Agbaaya-olori kodoro, elenu-gboa-bi-taya-tractor.....he,he,he,heeee.

@ubenedictus

Are you begging someone not to exercise his right? common leave the tread the way it is abeg, i appreciate your concern,but its getting interesting this way,thanks!!

@OLAADEGBU,

When it says that Jesus was in the form of God it means that He was God from eternity who created all things and this is corroborated in John 1:1-3

Noo, Dont force your personal opinion of how you choose to understand John 1:1-3 on us pleeeese,it does not support your point at all,because the conclussion on that matter was a debate among scholars,

but one thing that was so sure in the wikipedia, was that the result favours 'the word was a God' check the WIKIPEDIA free encyclopedia now and see for yourself under the topic;

"God" or "a god"

Main article: John 1:1;
The last four words of John 1:1 (Greek: θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος, literally "God was the Logos," or "God was the Word" have been a particular topic of debate within Christianity. In this construct, the subject (the Logos) and the complement (God) both appear in the nominative case, and the complement is therefore usually distinguished by dropping any article, and moving it before the verb.[33][34] Grammatically, the phrase could therefore read either "the Word was God" or "the Word was 'a' god."[33] In Greek grammar the word 'a' is nonexistent and is generally understood as implied by the very nature of its absence. Different translators decide to add it or to not add it. However, [size=14pt]according to a grammatical construction known as Colwell's Rule, the predicate of a predicate nominative should not be considered indefinite unless the context mandates it. Since "God" (Greek: θεὸς, theos) is the predicate in the predicate nominative construction, it is unlikely that the noun "God" is indefinite (requiring "a god" rather than "God"[/size] [35]. Early New Testament manuscripts did not distinguish upper and lower case,

so,

instead of wasting much time here, the conclusion still remains that either 'a God' or 'God'
it still boiled down to the fact that the creator himself share some titles with his son,and even humans,for example in the new testament God was reffered to using lord with small letters;

Jude 1:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

And that is why if your argument must hold water, you must prove to us why jesus was not reffered to as 'Almighty God' but only 'Mighty God' just show me one,and dont try to divert from the question here please,because people are watching,and it is getting more interesting now

Jesus Christ thought it not robbery to be [size=18pt]equal[/size] with God means that He didn't cling to His deity as a robber will cling to its plunder. It means that despite the fact that He took up the outward form of a man it did not detract from His intrinsic deity.

now you are looking at 'the robbery' aspect,only,and forgeting the 'equal' aspect which both the (king james version KJV) shared with (Complete Jewish Bible) (CJB)

ok lets treat the 'equal' along with 'robbery'

'equal' as used in the context using strong hebrews/greek dictionary gives us the following;
ἴσος

isos

ee'-sos

(through the idea of seeming );
similar (in amount or kind): - + {agree} as {much} {equal} like.

three discriptions we have derived here were
1,similar;.... often used for two different things.
2,Agree;.... two separate persons or more in agreement.
3,like;......two or more separate persons or things sharing 'some likeness' in some areas.

if christ thought it not robbery to be 'similar' and not 'same', to 'agree with'or to share some 'lkeness' with his father, its not the same as being God almighty himself, okay?

If Charles T. Russel understood it he wouldn't have twisted it to mean something else and there wouldn't have been this many false religion and cults today. If you read further in John 17 that you quoted you will discover that Jesus Christ was with the Father before coming down to earth. He said:

i earlier quoted from Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) word for word,[/b]and not NWT,so i dont know what you are talking about,
John 17:6
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
6 “I made your name known to the people you gave me out of the world. They were yours, you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.
i dont need russel to tackle you bro, [b]but then do you know that you have diverted from the question that i ask? here is it again,

BARRISTERS:
lie!!! the catholics made the gospel looks complex to gain undue advantage of the poeple, the bible quote below aknowledge the fact that jesus message are to be understood by the followers,read (bolded)
john 17:6,7;

my post above is directed at your assertion below,to show you that God did not intend to make the issue of christ message a mysery or runs counter to humans mind but only catholics do;

OLAADEGBU
The entire gospel message runs counter to the human mind. The Creator dying for the creation. The judge paying the penalty for the guilty. The immortal One dying. Sinless God substituting for human sinners. No human or devil ever could have thought of this scheme, and indeed, no such one did.

this notion was confirmed below;

John 17:6
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
6 “[size=18pt]I made your name known to the people you gave me out of the world.[/size] They were yours, you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.

lets thank williams tyndale that catholics killed for this exposures!

I hope you are not quoting from the dodgy NWT that has been twisted to deny the truth. Here is what the authorised version says:

no i have not, the translation is there for yoiu to verify,they say that 'you cant be rome than the pope' abi, lets start from bibles fro the jews where christianity came from using first complete jewish bible,see below

Proverbs 8:22-31
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
22 “Adonai made me as the beginning of his way,
the first of his ancient works.
(somebody had made someone here)
23 I was appointed before the world,
before the start, before the earth’s beginnings.

'somebody appointed someone here'can you see how hard pressed it can be for you?
see the translation that i used in my quote (NIV)now compare below word for word what i pasted earlier;

Proverbs 8:22-31
New International Version (NIV)
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,[a][b]
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.

and to expose another 'big' lie

"The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was" (Proverbs 8:22-23).

The word [size=14pt]"Possessed" [/size]in verse 22 is the same word as [size=14pt]"acquired"[/size]. It means that the Lord Jesus Christ was not just the Son of God, but that He was the only begotten Son of God. It means that He was "in the beginning" with God as the gospel of John put it in (John 1:1-2), Simultaneously He is the only begotten, eternally proceeding from the Father

you claimed that 'possesed'used in the context means 'aquired' ? is it from using your pocket diary,not even considering what the 'context itself states' thats a poor homework,im sorry using the language because you want me to do your simple home work for you,
ok lets see what the context itself presents as possibilities of what is meant by 'possesed' and you will see that 'aquired' wasnt among options,below;

'possesed' as used in the context appear in hebrew/greek below

קנה

qânâh

kaw-naw'

[size=18pt]A primitive root; to {erect} that {is} create [/size]; by extension to {procure} especially by purchase (causatively sell ); by implication to own: - {attain} buy ({-er}) teach to keep {cattle} {get} provoke to {jealousy} possess ({-or}) {purchase} {recover} {redeem} X {surely} X verily.

you can see that 'a primitive original usage' here favours [size=14pt]'create' and 'erect'[/size]
and it was only by extension that other usages excluding 'aquire' were considered.
so oga OLAADEGBU, your assertion seem to have failed you here.

I have addressed this misconception of yours if you read earlier posts. The Father and Son are both referred to as the mighty God. (See Isaiah 1:24).

no you have not adressed it sir, show us on particular place where 'almighty God' which is not same with 'mighty God' is used to depict jesus, then i will rest my case, but failure to do that.......ah,ahh,aaaaah, the trouble just start oo. you go defend tire, trust me.

Can you answer this question? Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Saviour?

if not,why not?.......yes of course, expecting your reply ooo, no diversion.thanks.

Tunnytox

Im dying with laughter here,your pastor-turned-harlot is a sharring a deadly virus that can be dangerous and impair proper reasonings,he needs to be marked-out of christianity or better still,tell him to drop the title 'pastor' period.!!!

@quiverfull
just listen to your post by yourself,who is fooling who,complete virus-sharing,and this assertion has to be in a 'sermon',i dont think that you guys still have anything called morals in your dictionary;

I hate the fact that,I have to talk on this over and over again!....Like I said earlier on in d previous post on PTB,Tunde Bakare's intellectual level(being a sound lawyer of high repute) is just too high for a lot of Nigerians to decipher and this is obvious from from d funny conclusions being drawn from his statements even by d Sahara reporter. It is also very funny to see how d so called Sahara reporter structured people's thinking and thoughts with the first sentence of d report before quoting Bakare and a lot of peoole fell for it (bad journalism).

FIRST OF ALL, There's a diff. Btw saying; "WHEN A SHOELESS TAKES OVER" and "WHEN THE SHOELESS TAKES OVER".The first statement( when a shoeless takes over)is a general statement. However,the second statement which was said by PTB(when d shoeless takes over) refers to a particular person which in this case is Jonathan.The statement doesn't mean that people of low background can't make it.ok?
EXAMPLE......WHEN A FOOTBALLER STEPS ON D PITCH,HE SCORES GOALS(general statement).WHEN THE FOOTBALLER STEPS ON D PITCH,HE SCORES GOALS(This is specific and directed towards a certain footballer)and sensible people will ask Who? I.e which footballer am I referring to?.Therefore,Bakare's statement was directed specifically to Jonathan and he isn't saying people of low backgrounds cannot make it.
POINT 2....Since the subject is already known,the rest follows...WHEN SUCH MEN OF LOW ESTATE FIND THEMSELVES IN POWER,TERRIBLE THINGS BEGIN TO HAPPEN.This statement is directed also to d subject and it means when people of Jonathan's mentality(CLUELESS persons) takes over,terrible things happen.QED.
Moreover,I guess the OP pasted this to provide a misleading twist to the previous topic which was well won by the PTB supporters and I am so dissapointed at the Admin/Mods for bringing this on for d 2nd time in less than 48hrs.I guess this was done basically for selfish profit making reasons and that's not good enough!

compare this same justification above to when bakare was justifying 'punching his wife'
honestly its a shame to aquire knowledge to make things go worse,excuse me!irukan-aso-oyo;birds of same feathers!

@tunnytox

Dude stop blabbing about, you've been posting this same post on few other threads and this is nothing to me but desperation and foolishness.
If you have any opinion or conviction as to whether PTB is truly called by God simply open another thread to highlight your point rather than spamming other threads with a post that is off topic! This thread is about PTB message and the interpretation of the message IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK OF PTB.
And next time you better choose a username that truly depicts your type, something like 'noisemaker' sort off.

sorry,Truth hurts, isn'nt it?im happy to still bring this to the tread,and will continue to whip you guys to your senses with it.
The Bible requirement now in your infected brain had being reduced to 'mere opinion' im only trying to get rid of 'viruses concucted by your bakare that is attacking your proper thinking ability'ehn.

a harlot-pastor-turned-politician who admittedly punch his wife and proud to shamefully potrays the act as normal shows the degree of virus infections that has been spread through his followers, i beg just cover your face with shame.The only thing your small virus-infected brain can do now is to childishly insult,oponu-alaini-ironu.

The Man Tunde Bakare,

Does he really worth your attention? quotes from his site here supplied by one his followers (kingoflag)http://babatundebakare.com/site/?page_id=2

''In May 1988, at the peak of his legal career he was called into ministry and he founded The Latter Rain Assembly (End-Time Church) on April 1, 1989 and is currently the Serving Overseer of the church''.

now this is where his fraud was established (read bolded letters above)

''he was called'' into a ministry that he founded so he was not appointed by an independent team of appointed Godly men who must see that he had been 'tested first' to meet the requirements of a church overseer before he was declared fit to preside over a church.

maybe he got a call from God according to him and that automatically made him a pastor and to impose himself as a pastor, if you dont understand, any pastor or general/overseer that is not appointed to lead having gone through the standard required of christians as practiced by the early apostles of christianity,such is fake,and self impostor and must mislead,

read the requirements below and compare maybe impostor-bakare is worthy;

1 Timothy 3:1-12
New International Version (NIV)
Qualifications for Overseers and Deacons

3 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. [/b]4 [b]He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 ([size=14pt]If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?[/size]) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. [size=14pt]7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap[/size].

8 In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9[b] They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 [size=18pt]They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.[/size]


can you see clear standards that qualifies someone above, (bolded), if someone just says that he receive a call from God,wealthy and with connections, people start following such person without knowing maybe the person meets the standard set out in the bible as a true man of God or just want to adulterate Gogs people with his selfish ambitions.

note the words in bold,'' They must first be tested;and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons''

compare bakare's activities....above, read it from your own bible, probably he may not even read such in his sermon.

pastor bakare on 14-12-2011 admitted that 'he punched his wife' who is also a pastor Mrs B. anybody can confirm that,

1 tim 3:3;
3 not given to drunkenness,[size=14pt] not violent but gentle,[/size] [b]not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

Get me right pls, if he is an activist,or labour leader,no problem,but using the time to teach 'morals' to teach 'hate' and campaign for a buhari who killed democracy with millitary rule in 1983,ban media houses and jail activists at will is laughable, mixing politics with religion on the pulpit can be best termed as being a 'HARLOT'.

pastor bakare on 14-12-2011 admitted that 'he punched his wife' who is also a pastor Mrs B. anybody can confirm that,

1 tim 3:4-5;
on requirements of overseers;
4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)

@kingoflag

You are "not necessarily quoting" me, abi, but you affixed my name to a false quote? You must be out your damn mind, stinking liar!

show me where i lied pleeeease,

And, what the hell are you thanking me for?

i have withdrawn my thanks, so now go ahead to show me 'where i have lied'
but then let me refresh you;

This is my comment after you have directed me to bakare's site here;http://babatundebakare.com/site/?page_id=2

then in the cited site,
see part of what i found there you cant deny this below;

''In May 1988, at the peak of his legal career [size=14pt]he was called into ministry and he founded The Latter Rain Assembly[/size] (End-Time Church) on April 1, 1989 and is currently[size=14pt] the Serving Overseer of the church[/size]''.


now this is where his fraud was established (read bolded letters above)

''he was called'' into a ministry that he founded so he was not appointed by an independent team of appointed Godly men who must see that he had been 'tested first' to meet the requirements of a church overseer before he was declared fit to preside over a church.
Then after the observation from your quoted site,i wrote below;

Thank you for directing me to the the fact that bakare abandoned practicing law (maybe he chooses to go for the later is not an issue here)...maybe he got a call from God according to him and that made him a pastor and to impose himself as a pastor

in the same site that you quoted,i discovered that he ''had abandoned the ministry to pursue a ''coalition of pro-democracy groups and individuals[b] with a clear mandate to promote political knowledge[/b]'' see below;

''Dr. ‘Tunde Bakare is the Convener of the Save Nigeria Group (SNG); a coalition of pro-democracy groups and individuals with a clear mandate to promote political knowledge and participation of the Nigerian citizens through strategic activities''.
also in the same site i found below;

Dr. ‘Tunde Bakare was General Muhammadu Buhari’s running mate in Nigeria’s 2011 Presidential Elections on the platform of The Congress for Progressive Change (CPC).

so, are you denying that 'you' are actually responsible for the availability of the site on this particular page,and that you hold the responsibility to defend it rather than making childish insult!