₦airaland Forum

jay bee:
@OP
Which family has it worse when their commuting to work is compared on a like for like basis?

Nigeria. UK
Cost of fuel. 140. 325
Average cost per month (per 100 litres). 14000. 32500
Miminum monthly salary. 18000. 240500
% of salary spent on fuel. 77.7%. 13.5%

PS: Assumptions factored into the above are as follows,
Exchange rate= 250 to 1 pound
Minimum salary for an adult in the UK is based on the calculation of 6 pounds per hr * 37 hrs a week * 52 woks a year divided by 12

This is a dishonest comparison.
Firstly, you have not included fractions for rent or taxes. Secondly, the UK didn't get to where it is today because of oil subsidies (yes, the UK is one of the Worlds top oil producers).

We all need to desperately want Nigeria to attain the UK's standards and we cannot do that by effectively subsidising the indolense in the system.

tlops: @ Beaf

you always jump to support GEJ no matter what, try to be objective a little. what should Nigerians expect (not shifting of goal post promises) at the end of this year! Atleast we need to have moved a step closer to the right direction. That is the major fear of Nigerian. Nigerians should not be made to pay for the comfort of the politicians.

Dude, I understand your fear and it is very valid. I too share the same fear, but we have got to take a step away from where we are, if not today, then we'll have to do it tomorrow with even more pain and greater chances of failure.
Everyone has been traumatised by the stup!d policies and reckless attitudes of our so called leaders, most of whom couldn't give an arse about how you and I exist.

However, as you know, I have always had faith that GEJ has the sincerity of heart toward Nigeria to set us on the right path. It is for the people to for once, have faith in a govt leader and back GEJ now. In backing him though, let us be totally clear about what our expectations for the better are; let us tie him down to his word that we will begin to see positive changes in 6 months from now, afterall June is not far off.

If this all comes out right, the pay off will be something Nigerians will forever cherish as the turning point in our national development.

texazzpete:
My point is, subsidy or no subsidy, the much touted future where a myriad of private investors are falling over themselves to set up refineries is a lie.

Since this has been put forward as a very realistic future which would lead to a reduction in fuel price, I am keen on busting that lying balloon.

Forget this talk of private investors, let the Nigerian Government fix the existing refineries and even build a few more! Saudi Aramco puts the cost of constructing a new 400,000 bpd refinery at $6 billion. Ask yourself why the clueless GEJ happily shared out the $20 billion excess crude account to his cronies who frittered it away.

Saudi Aramco can quote for and build refineries, but what is lost on you is that Aramco is Saudi Arabia's equivalent to NNPC. Aramco can also drill oil, bid for oil blocks in foreign lands, and clear oil spills (I recall they offered their expertise to the US during their recent BP spill).
Why do you think NNPC cannot even design a fuel jerrycan, talkless of a full refinery? In one simple sentence, I'll tell you the reason; it is because of the upside down, phucked up system we run. I will explain.

While Aramco is expected to compete and run a profit, every last thing in our NNPC is subsidised. NNPC does not compete with anyone and has never turned a profit in its wretchedly corrupt history (neither is it expected to and neither can it). All that people at NNPC need do to earn a startling wage is turn up for work, because NNPC's very existence is subsidised; it can drain the economy with yearly losses and never go burst. Aramco on the other hand does real battle to stay afloat and thrive and the difference is shown in their valuation; NNPC is not worth a sheet of used toilet roll, but Aramco at $8trillion, is the Worlds most valuable unlisted company.

While Nigeria has subsidised laziness and fuckry in NNPC, so that mental output is less than what one would get from a heap of cow dung; Aramco is deeply into Research and development, they operate on the cutting edge and have a Intellectual Property portfolio that boasts hundreds of patents. They have diversified into shipping with a tanker fleet that plies Europe, Asia and America.

I could go on and on, but it should be quite clear what our id!otic subsidies have brought us. Why then, would any right thinking person oppose a govt that wants to sweep NNPC away and replace it with non-subsidised companies as part of the deregulation that the removal of subsidies is a part of?
Some might argue that Saudi and other OPEC country subsidise fuel at the pump, but those countries tend to have much more oil than Nigeria and populations that however around the 6million mark and below. For them, oil is abundant, for us it is not.

softelng:
@Poster your point  is noted but i leave you to ponder on something:

Check the transport sys in UK and compare to that in Nigeria. 75% of Nigeria economy is directly or indirectly related to PMS. If the level of Infrastructure in UK is on par with what we have in Nigeria who cares about the price of  petrol.

So when do you think Nigeria should set down the path for developing a transport system that rivals that of the UK and do you think that journey would be without sacrifice of some sort?
What do you think it entails to ween 75% of Nigeria's economy (as you put it) off reliance on PMS, what would the journey away from an oil based economy entail?

Nobody can continue to rely on a system that has only delivered failure and mediocre life standards to miraculously deliver success at some point. The fuel subsidy was an id!otic policy from the outset, but it was put in place by illiterate soldiers whose id!otic decisions got us where we are today. If the subsidy had been placed on areas that would have boosted our industrialisation, like research, health, education, high tech manufacturing etc, by now it would have paid itself back several times over for reinvestment in other developmental areas needing a boost. Right now, the subsidy is little more than a bribe to keep the mouths of the citizen shut, while some bastar'ds loot the country dry.

I would rather fight for subsidies in the right areas than lose sleep over a policy that has kept our development at stup!d levels. Come on! We are not a nation of clowns!

www.nairaland.com/attachments/607019_subsidy_jpg82cb9f2ef10183e3a5e7d4d158bf56e4

This woman has a damn lovely arse!

Thor (OP) is correct, his article might be "in your face" and some might view it as insensitive, but it is correct and it is uncivil to insult anyone for expressing their opinion. There is no developed oil producer that subsidises petrol for consumption, instead subsidies are put on things that generate profits like manufacturing, research etc or areas that build up the citizen like education, health, out-of-job welfare etc.
Please, let us press our govt to provide these things and target them to the common man, failing which we can take to the streets.

How could anybody's English name be, dimwit?

^
Did you spot any smugglers on your way to work?

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=836787.msg9878813#msg9878813 date=1325496778]Thank you! This government began her journey from the pit of deceit during the PDP primaries, engaged in massive deceit during the electioneering campaign, and has continued to engage in deceit since she came into power in May 2011.

While the nation yet mourn the death of her precious citizens during the christmas day bombing, a heartless Jonathan played His cards of deceit yet again on Nigerians.

Like you rightly said, there is no room for subsidy of Petroluem products to remain they way it is, but the FG have failed to spell out to nigerians how this policy will not send them to early graves.

ARE WE GOING TO BE SHOUTING SOON , DEATH TO GEJ LIKE THE LIBYIANS DID TO GADAFFI[/quote]Is your "revolution" going to take place in London?
Welldone bros! You de UK de tell pipul make take bele face mopol! You are a "strong" man sha!

^
What quoted comment?

Chubhie:
Alas you puting your mouth where your pay comes from. I respect that. However, according to you and oga jonah the masses should endure the antecedent hardships for 6months? What you and Pdp are good at is giving hopless hope to the masses. It pains me that a guy as your headmaster rode on the goodwill of the masses only to jump ship? The end justifies the means? This goes to show that all politicians are rogues. My heart goes out to real men out there who battle against all odds in this jungle to stay afloat. This is a burden we must al live with-Headmaster GEJ.

I am not paid by anybody. You stick to such crappy stories because your brain is too weak and dried out to cope with the level of stuff I put out.
Try something else or head for the romance section were intelligence is not required and stup!dity might be admired.

I'm sure your English name is, dimwit!

.

Boko harams will soon be dodging slaps o!

DivideUs:
Thanks, I take it waiting a while will not be a bad thing to see which way it starts moving towards

Lol! Guy, you de sell forex?

^
The money you are talking about went into fuel. As you know, fuel isn't free; neither can we keep borrowing to feed a bad habit. Other countries borrow to grow their economies.

Hardunnii:
^^^^ you not cut down d cost of running govt and use d money to make d diff?? Why shud it have to be d masses to bear the brunt

Are the masses bearing the brunt? Its too early to say so; govts plans would have to fail first.
There will be pain, no doubt, but there is light at the other end of the tunnel. I want to trust GEJ for 6 months as he has promised. June is just around the corner and closer than we think.

As for govt cutting costs, I believe that demonstrations will aid that; it is impossible for one man to to face down the entire NASS and governors, but the streets can cause the NASS to eat humble pie. There is no reason on Earth why they should take more home than Obama does. Its just damn annoying and the generality of people need to make strong demands for the drastic reduction of their obscene pay packets and perks.

omokidew:
Any Government policy on oil whether subsidy,deregulation or what ever poo i dont understand will always be perfect for a nation.The two prominent things that make things go wrong is corruption and greed.

Even at the current price,fuel price in Nigeria is still low compared to prices in the US and UK

Subsidy or No Subsidy,the problem with Naija is leadership.
It would make more sense if protests were staged to drag incompetent leaders out of office than protest against economic measures.

That is so true!
It would make even better sense to demonstrate for true federalism and true representation, or to ensure the passage of the PIB in its most radical form.

Hardunnii:
@beaf another questn, since there is no provision for d subsidy in d budget, n u claim govt borrows to finance d subsidy, where will d money for d SURE projects come from

It will come from the FG's increased budget. It shouldn't take 1.3trillion to make a difference to the man on the street.

Chubhie:
No matter how harsh any govt policy seems, There are one thousand and one reasons to take sides. I must commend the energy and doggdness you invest in defending Pdp and your head master oga joe. Even Aldof Hitler has supporters! But history has a special karma for your kinds.

Forget about me and worry for yourself. By the way, I think you and dplordx should hitch up, you both have a dark, leaden, unrefined aura of the night.
I prefer bright, cerebral types who blossom with idea's and are mentally agile. Thank you.

^
I would support it, but I wouldn't want it. In any case, there is no choice, it would have been impossible to keep the subsidy. We had very detailed warnings from financial guru's like Okonjo Iweala and Sanusi.

sheyguy:
was there no smuggling in obj's time or in yar' adua's time Suddenly smuggling has taken N250b subsidy to N1,300b.
Smuggling of goods can be drastically reduced but we have a govt to lazy to think and act responsibly, if the govt of Gej is not a lazy and insensitive one why havent they given the pple clear direction of where we are going so far, during OBJ's time he tried to ban importation of certain goods to stimulate industries. Though he failed. what is Gej's govt plan and set targets? I am asking u beaf, cos u seem to know much abt Gej' govt and their direction.

Were there fuel queues day-inday-out in Obj and Yar Adua's times? That should answer your question.
Abundant fuel costs much more than no fuel. Seen?

And, I do not know more about GEJ's govt than you do, I am a regular NLer like the next person.

[quote author=meee! link=topic=836323.msg9874263#msg9874263 date=1325416164]Directory of Bridal Business:[/quote]Are you this heartless? This is a thread about untimely death, but you posted a jamboree pic?

May the souls of the dead rest in peace. When are we ever going to have codes and standards in Nigeria? This manner of living in chaos like animals is not the best.

Chubhie:
As an agent in the field, once your cover has been blown you are officially declared dead by your pay masters.
Agent beaf doing his spining.

Maybe you think you are a filmwriter and NL is Holywood.
Contribute to the topic or waka!

oyb:
beaf has no probem ith making a case for smuggling across togo, burkina faso , niger(who have their own refinery) and cameroon based on one blog post by two oyibos hitchhiking through africa.

http://lilandjohninafrica..com/2011/04/cotonou-benin.html

but the same hypocrite attempts to shout me down for pointing out that smuggling is always with the connivance of authorities.  

come and tell us that all our feul ends up in the whole of west africa becaue of three lines in a blog post

what a slowpoke!!

did your president not tell us he would secure our borders? do you think people looking for work are the same thing as terrorists? you think if mexicas were coming as terrorists the border would not be sealed tight?

do you have any brain at all?

ode. talking about the us, and illegal migrant workers  did you forget about Israels security fence?

keep on apologist for incompetence.

Poor metal-headed dunce. You must be the only person on Earth arguing that Benin Republic is not wholly reliant on smuggled oil from Nigeria, but then you are insane.

I would have suggested you take your smuggler hunting skill's to the Americans, because you've got a nose for such stuff. Tell them you detect smugglers because, "they have no lights, the windreen is a mess and teh driver looks out the front window."
Damn! They just might lock you away at Guantanamo Bay, where they keep real crazies.

oyb:
you are the fool. uk Arrow. u dont know what is happening in this country, which is why you spam us with infantile bs about how things are changing

bloody coward like your master. you finally found the guts to answer one of my replies to the incoherence you have been spamming the forum with, as as always your reply is little more than trolling to distract from the subject

ANYONE who plies the lagos badagry road in the morning can point out smugglers cars. as far back as 1999, during my first it in lagos, people in the staff bus were pointing out the cars . they are usually in a convoy, the bodies are beat to sheet. all the windows are taped ovr, te car i saggig from the weight of the goods.

instead of blathering about clever ways to detect snuggling ask your aster the slowpoke in aso rock, to call the customs to order.

have you wondered why customs officials are so rich ?

meanwhile answer ths. is your master a no good liar like you, eran ileya?

You are a dunce. Keep peeping through car windows and shouting, "smuggler!"
You have the mental output of a cockroach.

Go sell your "clever" ways of closing borders to the US, they've been trying to stop Mexicans coming in for decades. Don't forget to also tell them you can detect smugglers because, ""they have no lights, the windreen is a mess and teh driver looks out the front window.""

How meat headed do "clever" people get these days?

[quote author=ade_77 link=topic=836524.msg9878184#msg9878184 date=1325488704]If govt paid 400billion has subsidy in 2010, how did it jump to 1.3trillion in 2011.
What about the fuel refined locally, will that also be sold at 141?
Shouldn't govt take on this cabal and make them pay all the money they have stolen
If we actually know how much fuel Nigeria consumes, why does the govt keep paying excess
Subsidy to the cabal without confirming if the fuel was actually brought into the country.
We all know that this people bring the fuel into Nigeria and discharge them to other ships on the
High sea. Govt should start by bringing this people to book first[/quote]Many of you have forgotten fuel queue's. More fuel had to be imporeted to banish them and more money had to be borrowed to finance the imports because of the lousy subsidy system.

We Nigerians have short memories. Una don forget as e be before:

[img]http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg&STREAMOID=FRdsmntXNDuhvkmj2uDV_C6SYeqqxXXqBcOgKOfTXxTSEy8PWRzDbESMJF_XQupYwLkdkNm4NaK1iliY4aRX7GEabxkeoo57KN3LcI4Be79xyJSXHeyn6i9C8rc3E0xoX_kuXYWCUJRqviwH8FNPwULIcdFM9zupuYHBJc2ySZk-[/img]

oyb:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-836191.0.html
so you admit that your master is an incompetent, bare faced liar?

smugglers always have known routes. on my way to work every morning, there are always cars from Cotonou laden with canned goods. these cars are hard to miss, s they have no lights, the windreen is a mess and teh driver looks out the front window. they are rarely disturbed. the same goes on in the north.

in the same way, there are known routes through which cars are smuggled into nigeria.

smuggling a tanker of fuel is not the same as a terrorist sneaking across a border.

you seem to think the job is meant to be easy or something. the us borer patrol does not make such pathetic excuses as we cannot polic the border, therefore we will throw up our arms?

what defeatist nonsense

You are a fool.

Only a fool would point at a car they see in town and somehow know that the goods in it are smuggled, because "they have no lights, the windreen is a mess and teh driver looks out the front window."

What a "clever" way to detect smugglers. Abeg, I don't have time to converse with a person whose mental output could at best be described as arid and kwashiokored.

sheyguy:
Rip off indeed . . . Isnt it the same border they sneak these fuel through the same place they sneak rice, flour, and human beings for prostituzion and even Boko haram  use through? Instead of securing the borders he is changing policies and removing subsidies that will punish her citizens.
What happens when rice and flour subsidy becomes choking for the govt.
Gej is towing a cawordly and wicked path that punishes the pple instead of him manning up to face the real issues here.
No mata how hard u av tried thus far beaf, your arguments concerning subsidy removal on this forum still lacks substance . . .at least to me.

Secure the borders? Its easier said than done, even the US cannot secure its borders with Mexico, as developed as that country is.
If you have ever done business across the borders, you would know that it is impossible. Even in the areas where there is a fence between Benin Republic and Nigeria, people have cut holes where there is the slightest bush. In other areas, there is no fence, but there are forest tracks. Smugglers do not go through customs (except the daft ones or JJC's), the best way to stop them is by pricing the goods they smuggle competitively.
By the way, I am not trying to convince you, I am simply conveying my opinion.

[size=14pt]The fuel subsidy was for Benin Republic, Cameroun, Togo, Niger etc.[/size]

[img]http://3.bp..com/-50sJe0SdLVU/TaGPWcN-xBI/AAAAAAAAA_w/lq-1yfSkCKs/s1600/IMG_4899.JPG[/img]

Anybody that has travelled through W. Africa by road knows the scene below only too well.
90% of fuel sold in Benin Republic is smuggled from Nigeria. It is the same in Togo, Burkinafaso, Niger Republic, Cameroun, Chad etc.
All bought and paid for by Nigeria in the name of subsidy.

That trade just ended. Nice.

[img]http://3.bp..com/-50sJe0SdLVU/TaGPWcN-xBI/AAAAAAAAA_w/lq-1yfSkCKs/s1600/IMG_4899.JPG[/img]

caseymoney:
I think the next step is to cut the cost of running Govt. GEJ should also reduce Govt spending. Nigerian politician are making more than the US Politician. GEJ advocate should defend the raised argument.

I second this. There is no reason why the members of the NASS especially should take home more than Obama. For doing fuckall!

^
Crap 28 days of the month.

ogugua88:
Na my fault. That's what I get for responding to you on NL soon after waking from sleep. I meant living comfortably. If you're saying Nigerian citizens think backwards, do I dare think which way politicians are thinking?

Check the average income and poverty line of Nigeria, and then tell yourself Nigerians don't need fuel to be subsidized. Power first, then any other thing can fall into place, including a fuel subsidy removal.

Lol! I hope you had nice dreams?

Unfortunately, there can never be a right time to make corrections in Nigeria. Every last thing is wrong with our system and shock treatment is necessay in some instances. It is unfortunate that people will have a hard time, but it shouldn't last too long.
What we really need in Nigeria is to start manufacturing, if there was a magic wand to kickstart that, I would wave it; but we've got to face the reality of how messed up our system is, chomp the bit and get on with it.

viewlekan:
But isn't that putting the cart before the horse? How can a policy be formulated and be promulgated without a consise and clear framework that would alleviate the impact of the policy on the most vulnerable in the society?

You say Iweala and Allison have "mentioned" education, maternal care etc, so essentially no palliative measures have effectively been put in place ?

I am very sure the likes of Okonjo Iweala have a very clear and focused framework. However, you have to factor in the ugliness and gutter morality of Nigerian politics; anybody making sincere fundamental structural changes would need to keep their cards close to their chest if they are to have any success.