₦airaland Forum

Sharn, there are instances in islam that warrant death penalty. but nobody can unilaterally kill anyone on islamic basis without recourse to judicial process.

Telly, dont get carried away by blind animosity and sentiments. i have done enough justice to your questions, that i can confirm from the response of the heavyweights here who always critically analysed my responses for launching their scuds, i mean Baby and David.

Anyway, i hope i can put it in another perspective.

a. In Islam, Prophet Muhammad SAW is the last prophet and the seal of all prophets, this is authentic islamic provision.

b. Shahada in in the holy Quran and i expect you to get to it by now if you are as serious as you seem to be. And Holy prophet Muhammad SAW is clearly included in it as the Messenger of God

Telly B, i give that title to David and i may probably come a distant second.

Telly dude, i think you are a nice guy.

let me answer your questions;

a. Am not very familiar with the lote tree story and i really dont even know lote tree but any fatwa given by the holy prophet is devinely ordained and not his personal judgement.

b. The name of our holy prophet is the concluding part of the shahada as a mark of respect for the leader of the faithfuls and to define his true status and avoid wrong perception for latter day followers to know fully that he was never God.

c. All human beings are equal but then you also know that destiny confers on other humans a greater weight and responsibility than others and with that comes different levels of importance and respect. All prophets are leaders of their respective followers but the holy prophet Muhammad SAW is the last prophet and he formally harmonised the works of the previous prophets and eventually laid down a comprehensive religion for everyone, that is Islam.

d. Ofcourse shahada is the first and biggest pillar of islam and deeply rooted in the quran.

c. Finally, As you are now aware the followers of the earlier prophets had no shahada obligation with the name of prophet Muhammad SAW but after the coming of the final prophet, you can never be a believer unless you pronounce the complete shahada with his name.

Kaput

Hey guys i think looking at it objectively, fanatism is just a state of mind and not a cult. And i think rightly so, we have some bunch of fanatics around here. You are all welcome

Stimulus et al, You know we muslims always consider the holy prophet Muhammad SAW as a mortal and a messenger of God Almighty. He was never God and never claimed to be God. He was born by a woman called Amina and a father called Abdullahi. He died and was buried like everyone of us. He is our leader and the founder of our religion through devine inspiration. We see in him a good and shining example of Leadership and humility. All other prophets like Eesa (Jesus) Alayhis salam, Abraham, Noah, Moses, David, Solomon etc are all servants and messenger of God too, but some of them were sent specifically to a set of people while Muhammad SAW was sent to the whole humanity. But the message remains the same till date. There is only one God, Allah SWT.

The meaning of Shahada is : I bear witness that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is servant and messenger.

I hope you understand now.

Religious posts are reflection of our fragile cohabitation in the so amalgam. we are wide apart

noisy babe

Whats the fuss about wrong accussations? they were just expression of opinion by someone who probably is an idiot, sometimes. that shouldnt bother anyone. i shall cherish that kind of appellation. so do we now have a real terrorist?

Mukina thats the more reason why you should ignore them.

Just try get used to that.

Anyway i respect your opinion

Toyin was not killed collectively by muslims or sanctioned to die by islam so you guys should stop making fools of yourselves by overflogging this issue with sensational posts. Some irate youth killed the innocent woman and we muslims in unisom condemned her killing and called on gombe state government to prosecute whoever is involved.

Next time i hear muslims killing toyin i shall re-assess the real motive behind this forum generally. Right now there is gross injustice against muslims here. It wasnt suppose to be so. we came here to reason intellectually in contrast with some folks out there.

i am not impress by this topic and i sort of feel shortchanged. Terrorism is not about muslims but its an anomaly that inflict all genres and with diverse motivation. i have always admired my muslim sister mukina but i think she has danced to the gallery here. I expect mukina to tell them to their faces call us whatever name you feel but we remain what we are and you can go to blazes.

Its being a familiar culture to call muslims terrorists so muki why bother?.

Gwaine, dont come with that distasteful whiplash again. no muslim has ever defended the killing of toyin here and none will ever. the only conflict here is that our christian friends here want us to blame the action on islam and not on those boys, but we disagreed. i am probably more islamic than those boys but i cant see myself hurting an innocent  fly in the name of islam.

Alexis, i cant see any confusion between getting justice for inflicted harm and paying the price for doing wrong in another regard. its two different scenarios. the boys get punished for killing toyin and toyin get punish for not believing in Allah subhanahu wa ta ala. But the Lord almighty is the ultimate judge and can arbitrate according to His Wisdom. May the Lord have mercy on our souls all and may He continue to guide and protect us, Amen.

As for the Hindus i think they deserve more sympathy from the christians who both has mortals as their gods. We muslims can not worship any human, plant or animal. We worship An Omnipotent God that was never born and can never die, not even on a cross or in a veterinary farm.

Lemoshe, i dont know why you picked on this thread to repeat your first two posts. Anyway you are welcome to intellectual fold.

Noisy chick, what about the unobtainable line. You are either a goat hearder from the north or a , from the south. fill in the blank space.

Baby, trying to sanitise the discussion as usual with your consolatory remarks.

Alexis, Toyin could rest in peace in the christian heaven or where ever, but if you want my islamic view, i think she will get justice for her brutal murder then she could get punished for dying as an unbeliever. If she never believed in One Almighty God before her death.

The bottom line is we are all sadden by her death and wish it never happened, but then God is the ultimate arbiter.

Festacson you dont seem to know much about islam like most of your brethren here, too bad. There is nothing about creed or colour in islam and certainly nobody says everyone most be a moslem. But i assure you from my own belief if you die as an unbeliever you are going straight to hell fire. So go ahead and make your choice.

There you go again with the intellectual comparism and arrogance. Oh yeah we are cattle rearers and goat hearders in the north and we are proud of that but we also see most of you guys from the south as bunch of criminals and armed robbers. That is some of our reckless misconceptions about each other, if you feel cool about yours, i dont always agree with ours. But here the complex thing surfaces again.

Thank you oga feelgood, am glad you are feeling good too. Am not totally relocated to the holy state, i still live in abuja with my family. Your comments in this thread is the most sensible and i appreciate it very well. Its time to bury the hatchets and allow the relevant authorities prosecute the crime committed in gombe so that the poor soul of toyin can rest in peace. We all know it was heinous crime and we cant gain much by throwing punches here.

Thanks Mr Babs and thanks to everyone else. May Allah bless you all, Amen

Have anyone bothered to find out if these kids are in jail right now or what? I sincerely believe that those kids are not out there on the streets. My condolences to Toyin's family once again.

And David you obviously know what goes around comes around, nobody can reasonably support these kids actions because no one knows the next victim. It could be you or me, murder is always murder and its a heinous crime.

I guess me and Bro Babs have been saying the wrong thing to the wrong listeners. What am sure you would love to hear is here;

Oh yeah those kids were the bravest islamic jihadist. Its high time we roast all these bloody infidel for their utter disregard for our holy symbols. The kids elsewhere should copy the gombe example and look out for David, noisychick, baby, batu and other unbelievers in their midst. The time to grab the 72 virgins is now or never. Toyin has been taught a lesson.

As long as we did not say this you guys will just keep knocking the issue and refuse to accept what really the muslims said. In islam it is forbidden for anyone to take any innocent live and that is very clear to every muslim, whoever acted in disregard to this, is difinitely on his own and should be brought to justice.

This didnt hit me as a surprise, i ve always knew Baby can be humane and generous. I would have been suspicious if this came from David. I dont think we are smart if we come here in the forum and say nasty stuffs about our faiths and persons. We all have our differences but this is an elitist fold that requires some level of decency and respect. And there are basic things about our religions that we cant change and we need to respect that.

Baby, i ve always respected you here but i dont agree in many stances and i am not going to change now. But thanks for the handshake and others that seem to share your sentiments. We need to keep this harmony going.

Hanny, thats was nice parents you got there. But islam is not all about sexual pleasures neither does it encourage celibacy but its about harmony and decency. we dont need to flog the issues of sex too much just to discredit a beautiful dogma. Baby and David talked so much about the 70 virgins more than i ever know. I only worship my Lord as He instructed me and i never believed in violence or killings. I read the scriptures very well and i follow the teachings of my Holy Prophet SAW. I only wish you know the kind of islam i know not the kind of islam you concorted from your negative perceptions.

Baby, right now am posting from zamfara and i was shocked to the marrow to witness a gigantic church project going on in the heart of gusau city, so whats the gist about zamfara stopping or demolishing churches?

Its just so pathetic how you guys come here to say all sort of things about islam or muslims for the simple reason that you find it convenient to do so.

hannydarl, whats the ding dong all about? If the leaders position is all you need to understand islam then you are only following the crowd. You need to do better by learning about islam yourselves. there are plenty of authentic literatures and religious materials to consult.

You know when i read your replies it just expose more and more the real motives behind them. You dont love Islam and you feel so bad about it, wish it could just disappear perhaps. But its ok, we are stuck together for good and thats exactly why i keep on explaining things to you for a clearer and objective assessment. Islam can not be the inspiration for the kids but certainly our continued mistrust and hatred for each other which you are encouraging here. The kids probably share your kind of hatred for the other religion and were just waiting for a reason to strike. Am sure if your kids share your kind of sentiment they could kill a muslim for a lesser offence?.

The fact is those kids can not go free and that killing was a big crime that must be punished. But dont go looking for source of inspiration to spite the muslims. The hadith about killing of non-muslim was related in the context of a war era and may not be given such type of interpretation now. Toyin is dead, May the good Lord give her family the fortitude to bear the loss and may the culprits be brought to justice accordingly and may you guys one day understand the real islam from an objective view point. Amen

Hannydarl, am happy you spoke reasonably well. i guess thats how it may look to anyone from the outside and the actions of some of our brothers contributed to that. But i want you to believe this, i am a muslim and i grew up in a muslim family and in a muslim community but never for once had any imam or family member ever encouraged me or anyone i knew to kill anyone but in the contrary i grew up hearing about peaceful co-existence and harmonious relationships.

Its unfortunate these killings happens but i can never be convince that it is sanctioned by islam. But then you guys have already set your minds to believe that violence is part of islam and thats exactly what you will be looking out for in any islamic environment. If there are 360 days of peace in kano and 5 days of disturbance you find it convenient to trace that to islamic teachings. Too bad.

i dont blame you hanny, we now see ourselves as enemies and choose to be skeptical about each other. Its not the best way to relate.

I don't need your symphathy baby. i am proud to be a muslim and proud of my religious obligations. Even if i was born a non-muslim and knowing what i know about islam now, i will still have converted to Islam.

I very much agree with islam positions on any aspect of life but i disagree with reckless and brutal murder of any innocent soul. i have said enough about the killing in gombe and there is nothing more to add except if you want me to renounce islam to appease you and your fellow demi-gods.

We have a situation in the world where some extremists kills in the name of religion, we wish they don't do that but we can only pray for God guidance. Everyone is accountable for his action, islam does not send anyone to kill innocent soul, just like the majority of armed robbers and cultists who are mostly christians. These are bad eggs who are beyond our reach.

Hannydarl, No one is killing anyone. the isolated incidences were unfortunate. we wish they never happened but truly we love you all. We shall all one day account for our actions here on earth. whoever kill an innocent soul shall stand before God to explain his action.

So much hatred and so much venom against islam. We muslims loves you all and your continued hatred can not get you any result but more anguish and frustration. what is needed here is understanding and brotherhood. I don't hate anyone but i understand your anger about the recent events in the country especially the brutal murder of the christian sister in gombe. you don't seem to accept my condemnation of the youth and my condolences to the family but God almighty knows how i feel about it and thats what matters to me now.

Beccia and alexis seem to be the new aggressors on the bloc. i welcome you guys and look forward to having a more fruitful discussion with you both.

I still don't understand what FBI list is doing on this thread but i suppose it was meant to spite the muslims and to confirm the global anti-islam conspiracy. I wish the world get to know more about the real islam, the peaceful and loving Islam not the popular misconception about islam

Who on earth is this BECCIA and Alexis? I dont think they deserve my reply but i can understand they are bunch of little kids. Baby and David we ve being together for a while sorting out knotty religious issues, i only hope that you appreciate my analysis here. The kids were wrong, she doesnt deserve to die but there are tendencies for things like that to happen when mistakes are made.

Baby, The Holy Quran is not just any book, infact its the basic reason why me and you are not in the same camp. We need to respect that.

David, the totality of nigerian muslims has condemned the gombe incident. I havent heard anyone sanctioning yet

Again, read my post carefully before making your faulty conclusion. i am not referring to that particular incident in gombe in my train example, i just wanted to give you another angle to the supposed intolerance of muslims.

Islam do not just endorse anyone to kill anyone but i am sure by now you are very familiar with the sharia legal system which is wholly derived from the islamic dictates. Its not a situation of lawlessness neither is it a state of anarchy. There are constituted authorities to deal with legal and communal issues.

You are also aware that there are death penalties in islamic codes just like in the conventional courts. The definition of those premises as the case with other conventions are clearly provided. i dont want to talk about legal issues here but the point i am trying to make is that islam can not give those kids the backing to take law into their own hands but if she was brought to sharia court and was adjudged to have disrespected islam intentionally then the court has a verdict to give which is subject to many other considerations.