₦airaland Forum

I can see Havila is the only reasonable reply i ve got. i expect babyosisi to reel out something more beneficial but she opted to go with david in the now usual aggresive rethorics.

Havila, i started with a lot of regards for the christians here. my intention definitely is not to ridicule but to be better informed from the horses mouth. But your reply was basically another exercise in futility.

1. I don't believe jesus ever claimed to be God. And if he does i can't see why anyoner should have believed him knowing fully that God is much bigger than any human imagination

2. You based your arguement on some books that were never credible neither were they even sensible.

3. The dogma(check meaning too  ) of christianity lays a lot of emphasis on verbal proclamation, acceptance of some biblical passages, lenghthy lectures on virtues and basically nothing on any particular act of worship like salat

4. You finally close your arguement with some unsolicited insult on Prophet Muhammad (SAW or PBUH) and Islam. That was very uncomplimentary especially from someone i have some respect for

Shango haba, Sharia or no sharia, we all know that corruption is the bane of our problems in Nigeria. And right now the searchlight of EFCC has being focussing on Zamfara state for a while, i just read that the speaker and some of his colleagues have being arrested. I believe one day nemesis will surely catch up with the guity parties.

The issue of cow theft which you deliberately want to view it as a little crime is actually a big problem if allowed to go unpunished. But in the Sharia provision, there is also enough consideration to ensure justice is administered appropriately. The Sharia government is expected to provide the minimum basic amenities within the capabilities of the state inorder to justify meting out the punishment. There is also a minimum value of the stolen item that may warrant the amputation. I dont want you to rush into conclusion without proper understanding of the legal system.

David is just looking out for ways to ridicule islam. Its quite unfortunate and pathetic. You are also talking to the wrong audience

I ve always pondered why anyone could be a christian but i thought it may look disrespectful to ask any of my christian's associates and (friends). i must also say unlike some of the blind critics of islam on this forum that employed every available negative word to insult islam and muslim, i intend to write cautiously inorder not to inadvertedly hurt the sensibility of any christian reader.

To any religious person, the existence of a supreme God has always being an unquestionable fact. Ofcourse there is God who created heaven and Earth, Plants, Animals and Angels and breath life into all of us. The merciful lord also sent His envoys to guide every set of human generations. From Adam, Solomon, David, Lot, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Jesus and Finally Muhammadu Rasul lul lah (SAW). The sequence of creations and mystery of nature has further strenghten my faith and devotion to the One and only Supreme Creator. The miraculous creation of Adam, The Ark of Noah, The Birth of Jesus and lives of many other envoys of Allah are stark reality that there is a greater power somewhere.

Then comes faiths and religions. All these messengers of God came with the same messages; love one another, Avoid Evil, Be good neighbours, Respect each other, Glorify the Lord, etc. Surprisingly, Among these generations of human being, some group just woke up one day and say one of these messengers is God himself. He never said so and even if he said so no right thinking person should believe him. He was a human being like us having the same anatomy and physiology with us. another creation (Adam) was even more miraculous than him. There was life before him and there is still life after him. How can anyone worship this individual. He probably DIED for your sin because the Bible said " All have Sinned and come short of the glory of God,  and but i can never worship anyone that can die. it doesnt make sense to me. IBB should have started worshipping the late U. K. Bello who threw himself between IBB and the coupists bullets. And if we are all sinners we should try to avoid committing sins and seek the forgiveness of those we already committed as the righteous envoys of God admonished us.

If the Holy prophet muhammadu (SAW) said he was god, i wouldnt have worshipped him, because i knew human being can never be God. If he said he was the son of God, i would probably take it in figurative term. But there can only be one God and no one anywhere is anything to him but his servant and creation. The statues of Mary and Christ all added to the insults and ingratitude of the christendom to the gift of life and health from God. Christianity is very wrong and the sooner we understand this fact the better for our salvation. Lets all come together and worship the One that created us all.

May Almighty Lord guide and Protect us all. Amen

I ve always pondered why anyone could be a christian but i thought it may look disrespectful to any of my christian's associates and (friends). i must also say unlike some of the blind critics of islam on this forum that employed every available negative word to insult islam and muslim, i intend to write cautiously inorder not to inadvertedly hurt the sensibility of any christian reader.

To any religious person, the existence of a supreme God has always being an unquestionable fact. Ofcourse there is God who created heaven and Earth, Plants, Animals and Angels and breath life into all of us. The merciful lord also sent His envoys to guide every set of human generations. From Adam, Solomon, David, Lot, Noah, Moses, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Jesus and Finally Muhammadu Rasul lul lah (SAW). The sequence of creations and mystery of nature has further strenghten my faith and devotion to the One and only Supreme Creator. The miraculous creation of Adam, The Ark of Noah, The Birth of Jesus and lives of many other envoys of Allah are stark reality that there is a greater power somewhere.

Then comes faiths and religions. All these messengers of God came with the same messages; love one another, Avoid Evil, Be good neighbours, Respect each other, Glorify the Lord, etc. Surprisingly, Among these generations of human being, some group just woke up one day and say one of these messengers is God himself. He never said so and even if he said so no right thinking person should believe him. He was a human being like us having the same anatomy and physiology with us. another creation (Adam) was even more miraculous than him. There was life before him and there is still life after him. How can anyone worship this individual. He probably DIED for your sin because the Bible said " All have Sinned and come short of the glory of God, and but i can never worship anyone that can die. it doesnt make sense to me. IBB should have started worshipping the late U. K. Bello who threw himself between IBB and the coupists bullets. And if we are all sinners we should try to avoid committing sins and seek the forgiveness of those we already committed as the righteous envoys of God admonished us.

If the Holy prophet muhammadu (SAW) said he was god, i wouldnt have worshipped him, because i knew human being can never be God. If he said he was the son of God, i would probably take it in figurative term. But there can only be one God and no one anywhere is anything to him but his servant and creation. The statues of Mary and Christ all added to the insults and ingratitude of the christendom to the gift of life and health from God. Christianity is very wrong and the sooner we understand this fact the better for our salvation. Lets all come together and worship the One that created us all.

May Almighty Lord guide and Protect us all. Amen

Babyosisi, i appreciate your attempt to atleast understand the prevailing circumstances then. You are much better than David who is always a blind critic but we thank God who gave us the wisdom to tolerate him.

I don't want you confusing the emphasis on virginity with pedophillia.  You know in muslims societies we strongly condemn pre-marital sex and subsequently every decent girl and boy is expected to be married as a virgin. This does not refer to any particular age bracket, however we understand it to mean a relatively younger age (below 30). I know in the western societies it is now its no longer strange to see little kids having sex outside wedlock. The holy prophet advice to Jabir was only referring to the preference of marrying a virgin not neccessarily an underage. We muslims we ve always cherish our virginity irrespective of our ages till we eventually get married.

You ve tried to understand my question even if you were unable to address it properly. But Islam is a very decent and beautiful religion which i am strongly proud of. You can as well ask your folks that have muslims neighbours how lovely it is to have one. i pray one day you fall in love with a brother and understand the true beauty of Islam.

David, i await your mischievious translation because our holy prophet has hinted us about the existence of mushrikuns like you.

What a reckless computations and malicious interpretation. This is the mischievious mindset i always stress about your postings. Right now i dont really care how you guys feel and please if you can, please hasten in rolling out the break up machineries. i d rather wallow in poverty in the desert than hang out with folks like you.

Black is not an official colour, its probably coincidental or for ease of maintenance. Islam always prefer white colour

You make so much noise about these marriage to a 9 yr old without understanding the circumstances and the teaching behind it.

1. Has anyone of the Holy prophets Sahabas also married a 9 yr old?

2. Was there any sexual contact at that particular point in time?

3. Was there any precedence set in respect of an older bride by the same person?

4. Was there any traditional Arab rituals in respect of female children as at then and what was it?

5. Has the practice of marrying a 9 yr old being encourage in any muslim society till date?

You guys should search for answers to these questions and stop wallowing in abject ignorance and malice. The Holy prophet life is probably the singular and most recorded episode of any human being that ever existed. Every bit of his action was intended to serve as guidance and correction.

Havila, let me give you the logic behind the law.

In the case of breach of trust. Someone as an individual was officially entrusted and offerred the custody and possibly appropriate application of public or sometimes individual funds. He was selected to handle the job. He did not forcibly usurp the task. He was considered fit and acceptable. Unfortunately, he disappointedly mismanaged these resources. The law now recognised the fact that he had failed and therefore did not meet the expectation. He should be punished with severe prison sentence and the ill gotten wealth confiscated when proven.

In the case of the Theft. Here an individual who is morally decadent and with evil intention tresspassed into somebody's estate without recognised invitation and with the intent to hurt and cause harm, stole what he never had any prior claim to with no legal justification. The law will now investigate the motive and the neccessity. If this theft was carried out with survival motive under a very severe circumstance such as starvation and death. If the law discovered that the society had failed in its duty to provide minimal resources neccessary for sustenance and the culprit was force to steal an item only capable of relieving his immediate situation. the law will discharge that suspect but if the theft was carried out specifically out of greed and moral bankruptcy then the capacity of that suspect to commit further offence is curtailed by removing his right wrist in the first offence, then left, then right feet and on and on for that criminal do not deserve pity because he never pitied the victim and he knw the legal implication of his action as a practising muslim. The severity of this punishment was only meant to serve as detterent but hardly carried out. No first offender has ever gone back for a second trial.

That is the beauty of Islamic law. It was made loud to scare offenders and Alhamdulillah zamfara is 10 times more peaceful than Anambra or lagos state.

There you go again Havila. If indeed islam teaches us to kill how come we never killed anyone and i believe i am one of the most passionate muslims you can ever find. Insha Allah i will surely die as a muslim and serving the lord Almighty. Islam is peace and Holy quran is guidance to mankind. You can concort all kind of interpretations and permutation but Islam has never ordered the killing of any innocent soul anywhere. The truth shall prevail and one day you shall account for all these reckless allegations and misconceptions.

Nilla, Thanks for your understanding. May the Lord almighty guide and protect you, Amen

gbasky means gaskiya ne, meaning you ve spoken the truth

David, looting treasury is a breach of trust and it carries prison sentence while Stealing a cow is theft and is punishable with amputation

Babyosisi, the Bible has never being words of God. But you are free to give it names if you like

That was a great gist. We very much welcome your contribution brother.

i still cant understand why 75% of the poll said yes

I agree with you that once in a while you find muslims women adopting the cultures and codes of their host countries. Islamic dress codes only has three emphasis - Not revealing, not tight and not transparent. you are free to wear any colour of any couture but dont expose your vital privacy. if you have problem with that, too bad.

But i can also agree with traces of extremism in enforcing these codes in some Muslim countries, that can be considered too harsh. But liberalism does not encourage flagrant abuse of Islamic codes and conducts. We like our women dressed properly and decently inorder to protect their intergrity and God-given beauty. And i tell you those babes look cool in those hijabs and long gowns.

Johnny, thats an absolute fact. We are counting on your support

i want to welcome the newcomers to the debate. i think i like your angles josboy and zulu.

I dont know why you try so hard to associate carnages with islam. does our joining you on nairaland to shed some lights on islam translate to terrorism or you dont want to appreciate our kind of islam which totally does not belong to your definition?

Babyosisi, Havila, Davidylan please give us particularly brother olabowale some little bit of respect. We are muslims and you are christians. we dont have to agree on anything but we ve got to appreciate our individual efforts in nairaland especially in educating ourselves on religion and conducts.

Islam respect women and much more than you can ever imagined, but i guess you dont like our approach to it, too bad. Our women like it and we are all comfortable with it. i dont get any appeal from over exposed women and i dont think a lady need to over mingled and rub shoulders to catch my fancy. we have our own way of protecting our women and we dont care how you feel about them. we cant always do things your way, no we have our islamic ways and we strictly abide.

David, You are hereby invited to the weddings of Yarima's two daughters on saturday Dec 2nd, 2006 in Gusau. If you are coming we can arrange for your accommodation. 

Anyway, we are talking about bounties of Jannah here. The goal is for us to worship God on earth and reap the reward in heaven and that goes for all the genders. Woman by nature are suppose to one day get married to a man and be his wife. whichever religion you practice, this sequence applies. i think that presupposes some sort of relationship putting one gender ahead of another or rather putting one under the influence of another. am not going to explain further but i think we all accord women similar regards and respect as our wives, sisters and mothers.

Baby and David, you use very harsh words on Islam and muslims despite our warmth and softle approach to these discussions. i strongly disagree and take offence, hoping next time you take note. we are trying hard altogether to be civil and soft inorder to earn each others respect. Is not going to do you any good if we got pissed off with you and ignore your posts. we are also not bound by anyone to reply your reckless insults on our faith. 

If you don't like Islamic provisions on polygamy, rules of engagements or anything else, you have the right to disagree without being insultive. i don't think you are portraying your religion in good form by resorting to nasty languages while we condemn yours softly. it only goes to show where candour and decorum lies.

we keep citing terrorist acts as despicable acts while we write worst atrocities on the pages of nairaland. we are suppose to be smarter here.

i just curiously peeped into this thread but i dont want to rush into writing anything, i d rather wait to hear someone says the reverend gentleman is wrong. Anyway, the contradiction or lack of it should not even bother me because i dont even agree with the whole of it.

But sometimes i wish there was no contradiction in it so that atleast you can have something to hang on to(hopefully). We in Islam believe God sent a holy book to Jesus which probably end up in the wrong hand and now got adulterated. The book was called Injil. Am not sure if it is what you now called Bible.

Shango, wetin now?
Dont give us those sorry computations, again.

Mustay, i pray our kids shall cling on our legs too while we clung on our own parents

David you are on your own and i strongly disclaim everything you added.

Havila and Baby, i like your prompt response to the attack on my learned brother Olabowale. i think we still got that special bond in here. And rightly so, i am more like a politician and sometimes if you take me too seriously you may be missing the point. But you all know am not a terrorist, that you can be sure of. Like what Havila said i try to keep the mood right by playing down on some key divisive factors. I never knew you guys were watching. lol.

But the fact is we are here to understand the psyche of an average muslim or christian on issues relating to faith and harmony. Most of the times you post as if you are trying to win new converts while we only try to explain some aspects of islam that you might not be clear about.

The truth is i am a devout muslim and i will always be one but i always encourage mutual dialogue and interfaith discussions in order to correct the misconception about islam.

As for the reptiles, i never heard of any brother or sister devouring any of such. But Pork is Haram in Islam, that is very clear.

My goodness. The fact is very clear that Jesus is a great prophet of Islam, a messenger of Allah sent to mankind with a beautiful message. But the confusion now is when did he now become God?. he was such a nice young servant of the Lord born miraculously by our dear virgin Mary, how do you even think we can deny him?. We understand his messages and we believe he was sent by God like our dear prophet Muhammad (SAW).

We just dont believe any human being irrespective of his spiritual elevation can suddenly become God. Jesus want us to be good servants of the Lord, good neighbours to one another, love and be loved, just like our Holy prophet Muhammad (SAW). You can never be a full muslim except you acknowledge and fully accept all these facts. But definitely Jesus was not and is not God because God was never a human being and can never be one.

Please understand our view point.

Jazakallah Olabowale, i appreciate your prayers. May Almighty God give you the strength to continue with the great work and my God give our friends here the wisdom to atleast understand our view points. Amen. Although Havila said am a politician but i got to say i enjoy these exchanges so much and i greatly missed them whenever i travel down to my village in zamfara. Babyosisi, David and Havila are wonderful guys and very intelligent. i always wished they are on my side too. Unfortunately, from the way it stand, there is still a long way to go.

What really amuse me is that for someone to be convinced so much that a very humane religion like my beautiful islam could have anything to do with terror. i agree battles were fought to spread the message which was basically the order of the day in those periods but even then our holy prophets encourage the signing of a lot of treaties with non-muslims to enable peaceful co-existence. How can anyone think that i can raise my hand to hurt anyone justifiably. i dont think so. we have so much love around us and we pray one day peace shall return to middle east too.

hey, whats happening here. we are back to the use of harsh words.

my question is that do christians really sanctioned the eating of pork meat?.

Having realised the deep emotional and spiritual attachements we all have for our respective faiths, its now reasonably binding upon us to tread carefully inorder to maintain the courteous relationship we are enjoying here. i really don't like christianity and i think it doesnt make sense to be a christian but i respect people freedom to choose. God who created all of us gave us that responsibilty and accountability clause in all our conducts and one day we ve got to stand before Him to hear our accounts.

But i also noticed the christians in our midst are not ready to even understand the tenets of Islam as it is but they d rather hold on to their readymade perception of Islam despite our willingness to explain knotty issues. We ve got to believe that once in a while we may make error of judgement and we should be open to corrections. Bro Olabowale and me can't harbour terrorism and violent tendencies and still hang around with you appealing for peace and harmony. I don't think any else can have more sentiments about islam than my bro Olabowale. I am convinced beyond doubt that he is a very knowledgeable muslim and his conducts also are in line with islamic provisions. Terrorism is never islamic and the historical battles were never the premise for modern day violence and destructions. Myself and Olabowale strongly condemn any acts of terror carried out in the name of Islam

Lewa, na wa for u oh. You have already dumped my candidate to the refuse bin without any consideration for any sort of eligibility. Thats not fair. I know IBB case is rather different having been there before but Yerima belongs to the new generation of tested politicians yearning to offer more. Give them a chance, may be just may be they may perform excellently.

Havila, as if you knew, i dashed down to zamfara to keep abreast with issues at the home front. It was an eventful trip and we are still hopeful and counting on your supports.