pranil:


T[b]he lithium raw material in a Li-ion battery is only a fraction of one cent per watt, or less than 1 percent of the battery cost. [/b]A $10,000 battery for a plug-in hybrid contains less than $100 worth of lithium. Shortages when producing millions of large batteries for vehicles and stationary applications could increase the price, but for now this is not the case.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/availability_of_lithium

The prices are bound to drop as the production ramps up and more players enter market - The cost of Lithium battery comes from clean production processes and not the raw materials
Attached is a nice video explaining the challenges .

That is the reason the semiconductor/ chip suppliers were ahead of the race ( Samsung, LG, Pansonic, Sony) but Chinese companies are catching up ( BYD... etc)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2819K8_m7c

AThe Bloomberg survey gives a nice overlook since 2012 -

https://about.bnef.com/blog/behind-scenes-take-lithium-ion-battery-prices/


P.s -Gambia is planning a 8 MWh battery bank to work with 20 MW PV power plant to offset the diesel production currently powering the country - Imagine trying to achieve that with lead acid and the environmental impact of such large quantities of lead

Thanks for posting this. This is great news and makes me a bit more optimistic about Lithium although it does little to change my current stand that Lithium works best when procuredas an integrated all in one plug and play package. This is where it shines. We have a 150k dollars solar project at work and i am recommending we use lithium because at that scale and the money involved it is a no brainer. But for the average solar DIY Turnkey plug and play solutions are totally out of reach for now. And the time value of money and the huge thin margin of failure involved in assemblying lithium battery packs made up of different independent components clubbered together together to work as a unit is something I am not ready to dabble in. I don't have that much money to waste. The day we have a knock on wood lithium battery based solution plug and play and within reach then count me in. For now lithium would be solution for enterprise, large scale project, and specialised applications like mobile and auto where the economy of scale makes it a no brainer

Everything that has been said about proponent of Lithium all goes to reaffirm my believe about the tech and why I still maintain that for DIY and mainstream solar user Lithium is not there yet. It is still too expensive, complicated and potentially dangerous. Yes advance in portable and mobile tech would not have been possible without lithium which is exactly where lithium shines best. Close loop applications where it is designed as a one piece solution with charging battery monitoring all built in and the whole system is offered as a one piece machine. This is what you get with a laptop and electric car and mobile phone. The lithium battery is part of a whole. It is what tesla offers and it is why tesla power pack sells. The thing about such systems is that they are very very expensive more expensive than even buying battery packs in isolation and then assembling it into a power backup solution.. In fact in middle income countries like Australia such systems are so expensive that they are ownship cost is spread over 4 to 10 years where the owner pay small small.

Now this does not mean u can not diy lithium it just means the level of skill and time required is very high and margin of error very very thing.. One bad move and if u are lucky your bank will fail other wise you are playing with fire.

Someone talked about finding the right BMS digging through the Chinese Market or getting an American brand then the right charger and right balancer this things are not easy and sometimes by the time u realise you have the wrong component it is already too late.. For lithium given the cost often time such mistakes can be very expensive. Same thing can not be said for lead which can be quite forgiven. You can assemble an offgrid bank easily and cheaply buying off the shelf components. Worse that can happen is your battery don't get improper charge and even this can be remedied if you notice quickly.

Lastly the notion that lithium will get cheaper as production ramps up is not backed by reality. Lithium is made from rare earth materials which are not easily available. This is why it is expensive in the first place. There are few places in the world with large deposit of lithium and as it becomes indemand the price would go down as producing becomes efficient up to a point then it will go up as demand begin to out stripe supply and we would be back to cartel system we see with oil where lithium countries try to control price to make more money.

Lithium has its applications no doubt especially with mobile tech ie laptop, phones, auto.. It is still a long way from being defacto standard for home use. And when I say long I am looking at 5 to 8 years. And the future of lithium lies in all in one closed loop systems not the voltron system we see with lead acid.

The only person who currently uses a lithium system for his offgrid on here got some of the best lithium battery cell and from a classified project.. That alone should tell you something.

wirinet:


Yes a 48v 400ah lead acid battery should out perform a 48v 50Ah lithium battery, but it's a bit more complicated.

A 48v 400ah battery set up consists of the equivalent of 8 200ah deep cycle lead acid batteries. At the cost of an average of N120,000, that's N960,000.
You know lead acid battery capacity is rated at C/20. Drawing 2kw from lead acid battery is C/4.8, so the capacity of the 48v 400ah battery would reduce to about to about 300ah (maybe less). It even gets worse. It is not recommended to draw above 50% DOD from lead acid batteries, 60% max, so you maximum usable capacity from the battery is 180Ah at the cost of N960,000. Don't forget the average cycle of lead acid is between 300 to 600 cycles when used carefully.

A 48 50Ah lithium phosphate battery system is the equivalent of one 200ah battery, the average cost of which is about N500,000. A lithium phosphate battery can be discharged 90% DOD, without significant loss of battery life. That means a 48v 50ah lithium battery can supply 45ah without any problem. Note that lithium phosphate batteries are rated at an average of 2000 cycles.

The 48v 400ah lead acid battery outperforms the 48v 50ah lithium battery by a factor of 4 to 1 on capacity.

The lithium iron battery outperforms the lead acid on cycles (life time) by a factor of 4:1 also. So when we look at the combination of capacity vs life time, the two battery set ups are the same.

Having said that, the 48v 50a lithium set up is too small to run a 2000w continuous load. So the best set up for this load would be 4 x 48v 50Ah lithium phosphate battery set up. This would give you similar capacity to the 48v 400ah lead battery and last 4 times as long (might last much longer) at the cost of just a little over double the cost.
The main problem with lead acid batteries is having to replace the batteries ever 1 or 2 years.

Let us take this off the realm of theory and talk practical. My first solar batteries were 2 Flooded acid non premium tubular batteries with worse rate of discharge and even worse charge rate compared to an AGM. I had 2 for a 2br apartment attached (first to a 480w solar array, and upgraded over the space of 14 months to a 1.84kw array).. Those batteries ran for over 3 years (In fact one got bad due to earlier electrolyte spillage which was the second battery was still waxing strong) Those batteries served me for 3 years (Including 1 year completely offgrid) The powered fridge, freezers, washing machines and the whole shebang of running a house hold of 4, laptop over 4 charging, 2 tvs, 4 fan etc. 3 good years that is about 900 cycles from a 5kwh battery system I goes for 200k today's money.

Lithium is sexy and cool and it seems to be the future, but right now, lithium still has many quirks to address before it becomes mainstream. It is still too delicate, damn expensive and bleeping complicated to use. The biggest concern I have with lithium is the tech is fast evolving, any thing you buy now is bound to be obsolete very soon. Lastly Lithium works best when it is used as a complete turnkey all in one intergrated solution not the Frankenstein mix mash setup common with Lead acid batteries where Battery is different from inverter which is different from controller. A all in one integrated package like the tesla is where Lithium shines the best.. and such solutions are so damn expensive that even in OECD counties like US and Australia such systems are deployed on a pay small small bases with payment scheme sometimes running to over 10 years.

.

Namzy:
Does anybody know how to equalize with fangpusun properly? I'm asking because when the set automatic equalization reaches it just equalize (absorption and float light on) for about 20 mins before switching back to float. I'm not sure that s enough time for equalization

One of the weak points of fangpusun is equalisation is automatically timed and decided by the cc charge algorithms which sometimes is too conservative. What you can do is to restart the charging process by turning of the pv input and pvoutput forcing it to restart the charging process. You might also considering forcing it by increasing the absorption voltage if you will not be at home in which case auto equalization will become useless to you. You can also increase the frequency to maybe every 10 days?

Saipro:

Tried getting to the settings mode but I can't get in. Stops on the screen right after the device selection. If I choose a higher VictronConnect app, it shortly afterwards tried to update the device but fails.

I think you were merely lucky. v1.19 definitely snowballs the device. Will keep trying my skills. Will see if I can peek into the update file and modify it appropriately such that I can downgrade (tricking it to think it's an upgrade).

Me labout 3 years ago. I tried all that trick and still have the 150/45 fangpusun under a able somewhere in retirement. Hoping to one day put it under the axe and use the internals while secretly waiting for the hardware hacker community to take up the challenge.. maybe someday. I hope u succeed way I did not.

olatade:



is it compatible with tubular batteries?

used it with tubular battaries for 3 years. No issues

NiyiOmoIyunade:
In my opinion, the Fangpusun Bluesolar clone has no equal in performance and price and available configuration options when compared to similar CCs in its class.

I benchmarked it's solar output performance vs MorningStar and it did very very well even though I hate to admit it The MorningStar will only beat it because one can set longer absorb times e.t.c but the Fangpusun bluesolar appears to follow it's own default algorithm for length of absorb based on voltage at start of charge and time spent in bulk (custom settings may be made but does not appear to obey them)

I believe for this budget installation, you are looking for the 12v/24v version rated 100v/50a at the PV end. Ogas JUO or DMerciful can supply you this at a good price.

My 3rd year on the fangpusun clone and not a single problem.. Note that I ran through 3 epsolar models of cc before finally settling on the bluesolar clones. The only time I had issues was when I installed a firmware update from victron and promptly had the clones killed. Fangpusun is the company promptly sent me a replacement after I explained the issue with them. I have been so impressed by the fangpusun devices that I am considering going the original victron as a show or appreciation for designing such a fantastic program.

chris81964:


If you use 5 sun hours in your calculation and you lack access to the grid in Lagos or Port Harcourt you will be in a world of pain. I use 3 hours for a customer with no grid access and 4 to 4.5 for those with the grid.

Probably true. My figures are from my experience in abuja. Using hard data collected over a 3 year period some of which can be verified from my signature. My panels it should be noted are barely tier 2 and with a battery capacity of 5kwh.. Are grossly over sized.

mctfopt:


9AM to 3PM sunshine is not so much of a stretch in most part of the country.

not at peak though.. generations usually peak between 11 - 1 and subsequently drops off. The standard practice is to use the 77% rule which will account for heat, wiring and charge controller related loses. do your calc with 77% of the capacity of the solar panel hence 300 x 0.77 = 231
231 * 5 = 1,155 using 5 hours is also a safe bet. Such calculation as this should err on the safe side and as such should focus on a minimum average

Barezzi:
Can you expatiate on what you tryna do?

I'm not sure you can do this, and it's not a good parameter to use for control.
You can produce instantaneous power of 1.5Kw, but only 200w reach the batteries.

Consider using the battery Voltage or SOC for your control system.

Bro. How area. Abeg ping me backstage i lost your number during a phone swap.

duwdu:


The component I'm monitoring and have shown is just my PCM60x CC so far and it is a Voltronic/MPPSolar product. It is coupled with a VIL Star-Light Power Inverter. Like I said, I'm yet to deploy my Axpert/Voltronic based PIP5048GK.

The com cable supplied with the CC (and also one of the cables that come with the PIP) is ethernet/RJ45-to-RS232. Based on what I learnt from MPP Solar and on other forums (chiefly secondlifestorage - yeah, I once saw one bigrovar post on there, hehehe) I then got a RS232-to-USB converter from Amazon. It has worked like a charm to seamlessly interface the CC with my PC/Pi via USB. I don't have the particular link handy, but the trick is to get one with a Prolific chip. Appropriate Prolific drivers are auto installed on Linux. For Windoze, they're available on Prolific's website.

(BTW, I also tried the RJ45-to-USB cable sold for EPSolar/Ever products but that did not work for me.)

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P34c3
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Thanks for the update.

duwdu:


I've been a fan of your dashboard for several months from last year already, actually; it's so functional and pretty and was partly where I took my inspiration from, so thanks. My post was geared more towards novices to visualization resources such as yours truly.

And aside from vizualization and data logging interfaces provided by my current budget and so far robust components by MPP Solar, I had also last year tried my hands on building dashboards based on Grafana/Chronograf and the like (attached,) but later slacked off; so I'm learning.

That being said, I'd still love to build something similar to your dashboard if you'll please share your processes/code with me? My new frontline PIP5048 is also Axpert/Voltronic based, although I'm yet to fully deploy it.

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P34c3
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If I am not mistaken the system you are monitoring is the axpert inverter? which communication media are you using? The supplied usb connection cable? I asked because that cable driver is an issue and I was only able to get it to work by treating it as a hardware input device and the hack was not that easy. How did you do the connection in your case?

duwdu:
The Raspberry Pi 3 Model B is an incredible, nifty machine and is truly affordable. These will have to partially explain why many arrays of developers favour it so much as a platform of choice for apps and IoT stuff, majorly of the open-source types.

In this case, attached are four screen shots of the SolarSnoop/PCM60X Monitor app on the Pi, by a developer and in use with my charge controller. It's freely available on GitHub. It uses a browser interface and is thus available to be interacted with within the range of a WiFi network, or from anywhere on the Internet, on a browser.

I set up this my own particular install of the PCM60X Monitor to auto-refresh every minute, which interval is good enough for me.

Hope some of us who are not already using equivalent or better solutions to monitor/visualize their RE set ups, will be encouraged to find similar ones for own use.

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welcome to the club bro. The system I setup some times in july last year is still running and has been logging away without issues. Even when I am out of the country, I can still always take a peep and see what is happening. Using the solar equipment with open communication port and documentations (Looking at Victron and to some extent some tracer and epsolar devices) is also very important if you are considering going this route.

4llerbuntu:
You guys must be smiling with this crazy sunlight/heat right now.

Last time I spoke to Juo about the heat.. his response was "what heat?" I can not even begin to imagine how people are coping.. My friends keeps reminding me that the weather is not getting cooler

JUO:
I think the flooded battery was overhyped. For me I will not have anything to do with any flooded battery or wet cell. I understand your pain Abu

Yes o, especially in Nigeria where there are often imported dry and then filled with "distilled" water by the merchant and subsequently sit idle in the wearhouse/shop until they are sold (in many instance at a longer than recommended partial state of charge leading to surlphation). Even at the best of conditions I have come to realise flooded batteries are not the best for offgrid use. Their low charge and discharge rate means you are unable to take advantage of the less than 5 hours peak sun time... unlike AGM which has ability to fast charge and can take close to 30% of it's rated capacity i.e a 100AH AGM can be charged at 30A while the flooded equivalent most not be charged at more than 13% or 13A to avoid damage. The periodic equalization and distilled water topping adds and extra layer of maintenance that becomes a chore especially if you have them in numbers exceeding 2.. Not many inverters supports equalization.

Flooded does have its advantages, their are cheap, quite robust and can be easily diagnosed for problems.. they can also take some level of beating. Unfortunately from my experience, their advantages is seriously out weighed by their disadvantages

SOLD!!

cyif2003:
Ok thanks all d same....

you are welcome

esperiense:
I'm interested but I'm in Lagos 08063737929

If you are really interested and serious *call* my number.

dirtycoin:



Where is your precise location in Abuja?

How low are you willing to sell?

Lokogoma. Give me a call if you are serious.

I got calls regarding the battery life. The laptop lasted 5 hours watching a movie while unplugged.

dirtycoin:
Do you still have the receipt of purchase? Was it purchased as brand new or pre-owned?

brand new online from amazon UK. I have the online invoice.

cyif2003:
100k

+ 40k. don't even call me if you don't have 135k

cyif2003:
Ba3 life?

Internal Battery

Front Li-Polymer 3-cell (23.5 Wh) and rear Li-Polymer 3-cell (26 Wh), both integrated

Rest of the specifications are here https://www.lenovo.com/ng/en/laptops/thinkpad/t-series/ThinkPad-T460s/p/22TP2TT460S

Oshomo12:


The battery probably have one or two cells shorted. Remedy, none(get it replaced if there is warranty on it).

You have said it all. This is a case of a bad battery. Under 2 months says it is bad from the factory so you best recourse is to have it replaced.

divo:

How many inches and what's the processor speed

14 inch
2.3 - 2.8 GHz

The T4** series of thinkpads are all 14 inch. This is the slimer version of the flagship Tseries.

Neatly used Thinkpad T460s ultrabook.

Specification:

Intel (Skylake) Core i5
12GB Ram DDR4
256GB SSD NVME (4 times faster than normal SSD)
Finger Print Reader
Backlit Keyboard
1080p Screen resolution
Antiglare screen
Screen size 14 inch
3G/LTE Sim card support

Reason for sale: I got an upgrade (The t470s)

Location: Abuja

Namzy:

Well I don't have the lcd version but after chatting with the supplier and extensive research I have come to the conclusion that the lcd version is same thing as the led version + the mppt control display and that does not have the equalization settings. I have also seen YouTube videos where someone browsed through the whole settings and equalization settings was not there. Also going through the manual of the mppt control display unit which the lcd of the mppt control is has no equalization option as well. If you can show pics I'd appreciate it because I want that display unit too

Equalisation can only be enabled through the victron connect software for victron charge controllers. The particular brand of fangpuson u are using is a clone of the victron mppt bluesolar controllers. Since late 2016, victron have made it difficult to use their official victron connect software with the fangpusun clones.. Often times they inject a silent kill switch to the fangpunsun which gradually kill the controller. This happens when you try to connect the fangpusun with a victron connect software (least from november 2016).. It was because of this issue that fangpunsun starting making a "*new*" bluesolar with a new casing that comes without the victron connect port hence making it impossible for users of their product to mess with victron software and end up causing damage.

Your options are in 2 folds.

1 find online an older version of the victron connect app (I am using version 1.7) and that seem to work without issues. Once you get this you ccan connect it to the fanpusun cc with the ve usb port. The newer models without the port on the surface can still be used but it would need to be opened up.

The best and easiest option 2 is to just manually increase your absorption charge voltage to 15.5 per 12v and ensure you maintain this for close to 2 hours. This is pretty much what absorption charge does anyway. The downside is you lose automatic equalization which is suppose to happen once every 30 month at least. But trust me, you always want to be there when equalizing batteries just to keep an eye on things so option 2 might not be as bad as it sounds.

I have a used 5kva 48v ipowerplus solar inverter for sale. It has been in use for about a year in a server data center. It is been sold due to upgrades. The system is in perfect working order. The ipowerplus is a white labelled axpert inverter mks 5kva.
120k
SOLD

.

Malevonent:
is there any more wrong in runing 2 x 250w panels in series to an mppt charge controller on a 48v inverter, my instaler is insisting there is no harm/loss of charging potential, i feel a 3 x 250w series setup is better, so as to have enough headroom to charge the smf batts.

what do u guys think?

You are right on the mark. 2 250w panels for a 48v setup is essentially running your mppt as a pwm. There is little or no head room at all and your system will have little tolerance for voltage loss.

hardywaltz:
Please house I need to find out the best option for batteries.

Seal maintenance free batteries
Or
Flooded batteries.

It's for a location that is unoccupied for most part of the year so regular topping of battery acid maybe impossible.

The recent I'm asking is coz a lot of people say they prefer flooded batteries to smf.

Thanks

The part in bold answers your question. Sealed Maintenance free are called that for a reason and are best for places what are unoccupied for most part of the year as long as they get sufficiently charged.