₦airaland Forum

@ OP

1)Since when does evolution equals atheism? Your assertion is false because there are so many christians that strongly believe in evolution. Evolution is a branch of science that has nothing to do with any system of beliefs.

2) Which part of the evolutionary theory states that the earth evolved from nothing?

3) Atom that is not seen yet is believed to exist you said, Who told you that an atom has not been seen?

https://www.zurich.ibm.com/images/news/electrons_press_release/STM_data_280.jpg

A little reading here will help you understand how the image of the atom was obtained.

Romeo4real:
I don't know the type of Christians you know, or what they have told you. The purpose of Christianity is not to "live longer", be "better protected from disease", or to be "happier" than any other person. There is nowhere in the Bible that alludes to these claims. And remember, anything a Christian asks for has to be within the will of God anyway. We have hashed this out before.

On what basis did you come to this conclusion? What do you mean when you say that there is no where in the bible that alludes to some of the point the OP raises?

Lets look at the bible and see where it promises those things.

The bible promises protection to people that believe in God.

Psalm 37 says, "Trust in the Lord, and do good; so you will live in the land, and enjoy security."

Psalm 32 v 7:
You are my hiding place; you will protect me from trouble and surround me with songs of deliverance.

Psalm 34 v 7-8:
The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them. Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.

There are many promises in scripture of God's love and care (see: Romans 8:35-39; I Peter 5:7). For example the bible teaches about God's provision of guardian angels (Matthew 18:10) to protect. The psalmist talks about, God being "our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble" (Psalm 46:1). There are also great examples of God's intervention for his people recorded in the bible.

Is there any evidence that shows these promises to be true? I don't think there is.

Backwards and too close minded.

Romeo4real:
Fundamentalism is a malady that afflicts all sides equally. There are scientists who are "fundamentalists" in their thinking, who have gone on to do abhorrent things all in the name of science. I personally, have no time for fundamentalism of any kind or sheen.
There is nothing fanatical or fundamentalist about the teachings in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ. [/b]People choose to interpret things in a way that is aligned with their initial thinking.This is a case of Don't blame the Game, Blame the Player.

It seems we have both read different bibles.

As you rightly pointed out, many great things have been done in the name of religion. Unrivalled acts of kindness, compassion and selflessness. These do not, can not, and must not erase the equally abhorrent things done in the name of religion.
[b]Contrary to popular thinking, most wars are not caused by religion - A catalyst? Yes. Contributing factor? Yes, but rarely the cause. Show me any war, political unrest, rebellion or revolution, and I'll show you injustices, land grabs, genocide, ethnic cleansing and government terrorism.

How can you say that religion is not the cause of war even when war is sanctioned and encouraged by God in the bible? People in the bible were encouraged and commanded by God to fight wars in his name and religion. For example Yahweh tells the Israelites he will give them the land of Canaan (inhabited by people who worship other Gods which is the ultimate sin to Yahweh, besides breaking the Sabbath and not sacrificing
animals to him) if they obey him and kill everyone in Canaan. They kill everyone in Canaan and in all
the other lands they set foot on (as God commands them) and take virgin women and livestock as
war booty (which is perfectly okay with Yahweh).

Here a few more readings from the bible were wars are encouraged or sanctioned by God.

- God tells Israel that they are supposed to destroy all the people in every land they set foot upon
and then take the land for themselves because God says that's their inheritance from him -- their
"Father." (Deuteronomy 11:24-25)

- Kill anyone who worships other gods! (Deuteronomy 17:2-5).

- The Lord (Yahweh) is a "man of war." (Exodus 15:3) Describes him perfectly.

- God tells Israel that they are supposed to destroy all the people in every land they set foot upon
and then take the land for themselves because God says that's their inheritance from him -- their
"Father." (Deuteronomy 11:24-25)

The  bible which I guess you believe is the word of God has God himself encouraging people to kill unbelievers and fight them for worshipping other Gods or fight in the name of God and his religion so what point were you trying to make. Religion has been the cause of war and still remain a cause of war all over the earth as mazaje said. There is no need debating that fact.

mantraa:
Here is a link to the new documentary that it refers to.

Its well worth watching but would be much better in high definition and on a 3d tv.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2oYS9-Ee9U&feature=related

Interesting vidoes you have posted up there. Nice!

The acting president should learn to do one thing at a time. What's his agenda? What nigerians need is stable electricity and good roads for now not some bogus white elephant project that will not see the light of the day.

Go ahead and marry the lady if you guys are truly in love.

miftaudeen:
that mean, we need to work together i.e the whole ummah to[b] invald the enemies of islam[/b].

Who are the fictitious enemies of islam you guys keep deluding yourself about? The only enemy of islam is islam.

toba:
Him jesus and angels. lol

Seriously him self and jesus i think

I thought jesus is god? I just realized that the jews that wrote down the fable actually do not beleieve it the way the christians do, the jews mostly regard it as an allegorical tale. The christians here are busy beating their heads against the wall lying to themselves and trying to put things into the jewish creation story that were never intended by the jews that wrote them. Jesus has no part or role in the genesis fable. Jesus is a christian fable and has no role in the jewish fable.

alimat 2:
Muslims are the best of Mankind.

Proud to be a muslim.
Muslims are those that submit willing and totally to the laws of God Almighty

Are you trying to say that submitting willingly and totally to the will of a god that tells you to kill others for their unbelief is a good thing to do? Muslims are not the best of mankind no matter how long you keep lying to yourself.

Can a non existant god create anything? Prove your god exists first and then we can discuss what he's capable of creating.

Intimidate the person and tell him that when he dies he is going to hell. . . .

noetic2:
that would not be necessary, cos we already know two things

1. from your definition post that ELOHIM refers to the plural of ELOHA. . .meaning more than one.

2. ELOHIM is used to refer to ONE God in the bible.

The deductions from the above are pretty obvious. . .arent they?

Eloha= god
Elohim=gods

Is the concept of trinity=gods?

The worst part is that you will find women passionately defending Islam even when the Koran says that the women and intellectually deficient and less than men, I don't blame them though they have been indoctrinated to believe in all these lies since childhood and it has now become not only their way of life but a fact of life to them.

Deep Sight:
I believe to some degree there must be some sort of evolution, although i am convinced it could only have occured under intelligent supernatural direction.

Nevertheless, untill you can show me anywhere in the fossil record where there appears a giraffe with a neck half or two thirds the length of the neck of a modern giraffe (in order to show intermediate evolutionary progression), there remain questions to be answered by the Evolution Theory.

Are you also able to show fossils with half developed limbs (e.g fish on the intermediate progression into reptiles).

Or do you imagine the legs would have sprung out suddenly one sunny day in June.

There must be fossils showing intermediate stages otherwise there are problems. . .

That is the same problem I have with the theory too many assumptions and subjective suppositions.

noetic2:
This is officially called ILLITERACY and IGNORANCE.

from your own post,  it is obvious that there are several definitions of the term ELOHIM. . . .as used by different speakers.
All u have done is to pick out one this terms. . . . .how EXACTLY does this definition of urs dispute/discredit the trinity definition?

Ok can you show where it is written that Elohim is a trinity in the OT or where the OT god says he is a trinity in the OT. I just gave you the definitions of Elohim according to the word in Hebrew and the Canaanite language which are all the same and you are calling me an ignorant person?

noetic2:
just look at your own post:
from the above we can deduce two things.

1. Elohim is used to denote a single God.

2. Elohim is a plural word. . .referring to more than one.

That should tell anyone that the TRINITY is ONE but has three entities that form one. why is this so hard for u to gasp?

Elohim refers to the entire pantheon of the Canaanite gods and is used as to refer to god and gods by the ancient jews. What do you mean that Elohim is the trinity? Go tell that to a Jew if he doesn't slap your mouth for blasphemy.

noetic2:
you are so ignorant.

The old testament specifically, genesis talks about ELOHIM. . . . . .
Elohim is simply the trinity. . . .God the father, Son and Holy spirit.
have u ever heard the phrase  Let us make man in our own image? who was who talking to?

Please will you stop lying, Who told you that Elohim is the trinity? Is there anything like the trinity in Judaism? Elohim simply refers to gods its the plural of El and El means god.

Elohim is the Hebrew plural word meaning "goddesses and gods," but each time it appears in the Bible it is translated as "God." In the original manuscripts of the book of Genesis, Yahweh was one of the elohim.

http://en.mimi.hu/esoteric/elohim.html

'Elohim' is a plural word, which is peculiar because God is one (Deut 6:4). The etymology is generally deemed uncertain but most likely it comes from lh ('lh 93), and perhaps from elim, the plural of el, el, the common Canaanite word for god.

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Elohim.html

Elohim (אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים, sometimes transliterated as Aleim[1]) is a Hebrew word which expresses concepts of divinity. It is apparently related to the Hebrew word ēl, though morphologically it consists of the Hebrew word Eloah (אלוה) with a plural suffix. Elohim is the third word in the Hebrew text of Genesis and occurs frequently throughout the Torah, the Jewish Holy Scroll, recognized as the Bible or the Old Testament by other religions. Its exact significance is often disputed.

"And Elohim created Adam" by William Blake.In some cases (e.g. Exodus 3:4, ",  Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush , ", it acts as a singular noun in Hebrew grammar (see next section), and is then generally understood to denote the single God of Israel. In other cases, Elohim acts as an ordinary plural of the word Eloah (אלוה), and refers to the polytheistic notion of multiple gods (for example, Exodus 20:3, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me.". This may reflect the use of the word "Elohim" found in the late Bronze Age texts of Canaanite Ugarit, where Elohim ('lhm) denoted the entire Canaanite pantheon (the family of El אל, the patriarchal creator god). It may also refer to a Henotheistic strand of Judaism. In still other cases, the meaning is not clear from the text, but may refer to powerful beings (e.g. Genesis 6:2, ",  the sons of the Elohim (e-aleim) saw the daughters of men (e-adam, the adam) that they were fair; and they took them for wives,  ," Exodus 4:16, "He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you [Moses] were Elohim to him [Aaron],  ," Exodus 22:28, "Thou shalt not revile Elohim, or curse a ruler of your people,  ," where the parallelism suggests that Elohim may refer to human rulers) (see Sons of God).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim

"The sword of Mahomet, and the coran (koran) are the most stubborn ennemies of Civilization, Liberty, and Truth, which the world has yet known."

- W. Muir

MrCrackles:
[/b]
Dude shut the fuc.k up, that wasnt necessary!

Shut the fuc.k up too, were they not trying to promote islamic ideas and what the koran says? They did what they did all because they were trying to enforce the laws of the koran.

What is wrong with these people? Piss on Islam.

Is this congress man deluding himself or does he think he is deluding others?

z-murda:
I think creationism and evolutionism are both concepts developed by people. It takes a lot of faith to believe both either ways. I do no believe that the world was created in 7 days,it would be wholly irrational to think it was (if that's what you are alluding to) neither do I wholly believe that evolutionism is THE WORD.
I think as they say faith without works is dead (maybe i quote outta context).
My idea is SOMETHING created the first single cell bugger. It may be a higher force, the big bang or even me for that matter. I don't know, the scientists don't know.

The world being created in seven days is not really a problem for some one to believe to believe if you really want to believe in it. There are more problems in the creation accounts in genesis for example the account talks about the earth being created before the sun, what held the earth in orbit before the sun was created? How was there evening, morning day and night without the sun? It does not even talk about the creation of other planets because the people that wrote the creation accounts did not know that there are other planets orbiting the sun in the solar system, they just wrote down what they knew and thought was right. What about the stars? The really had no idea what they were,the thought the stars were just tiny dots hanging up in the sky for signs that is why they said it took their god an entire day to create the earth and annother entire day to create the moon and the sun but  just a day to create uncountable stars that are more complex and more complicated than the earth, our moon and sun. If only they had looked into a space telescope they would never have written any such thing. Creationism is the thoughts of how medieval men who now nothing about the universe thought it came about

Evolution is based purely on supposition like creationism, it has some points but instead of scientist to allow the evidence to speak for it self they make too many subjective claims and try to impose their suggestions all the time. If evolution is true then let the evidence speak for itself. Too much "We believe" or ridiculous reconstructions by scientist makes it absurd to me.

As you have said no body knows how the earth, life or the universe came about if we do then we will not have any reason to believe in any of the many hypothesis out there, any body that claims to know for sure is a liar.

z-murda:
His book, the God delusion makes for very interesting reading, throws up a lot more questions for me than answers. The video is a continuation of a man who seeks answers.

I am tempted to agree with you. For a fact, the 'science' of evolution is a bit shady. Though I tend to side with it more than creationism. I think growing up as christian has made me have a syncretic way of looking at the beginning of life. A little of creationism, then things moved on from there.

Creationism itself is just a concept that people developed but the only thing is that they wrote that their various gods did it. A good look at the universe shows that the earth and the universe did not come about that the way it is portrayed in any of the man made religious text. Read the creation accounts in the bible and the koran and you will see for yourself that those stories and nothing but lies. That is why people are supposed to believe them based o faith not because they make an sense at all.

Interesting videos but one thing with evolution is that it is full of conjectures and suppositions to the extent that it makes little sense to me. Personally I believe that evolution is on the same page with creationism. The FACT is no one knows how the universe began and how we got here or even if we are the only ones here in the universe any body that claims to know for sure is a LIAR.

banom:
What if in the end you find out Mohammed is real, what will you do ?

His soul in eternal hell. . He talks about things like soul but if you ask him to provide a single evidence to show that there is anything called the soul that exist he will start complaining. There is nothing like the soul, the brain controls everything.

davidylan:
That's absurd. See it this way . . .

1. I remain a committed, genuine christian . . . at the end i find out there is no eternity. What have i lost? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

2. You remain a confused, insecure atheist . . . at the end you find out eternity in Christ Jesus does exist . . . what have you lost? YOUR SOUL IN ETERNAL HELL.

Irrational fear IS THE ONLY thing that makes you believe and hold onto all these lies and myths nice for letting us know that fear is what really drives your beliefs.

davidylan:
I dont think the evolutionists have a more persuasive argument than creationists . . . i think the problem is a lot of people are desperate for an excuse not to consider the creationist angle. Daring to accept the creationist theory would force you to play by God's rules which no one wants to.
the rejection of creationism is not really the goal here, rejection of God is . . . rejecting creationism is simply one more excuse.

Again you make up a false theory and believe it is true. I personally threw away creationism because it does not make any sense to me based on what I know about the earth and the universe as a whole. There are so many people that believe in the god of the bible but still do not believe in the genesis accounts because it does not make sense to them. There are millions of christians that believe in evolution and the BB not in creationism. So your theory of people not believing in creationism because they do not want to play by your god's rule is actually false considering that there are a lot of people that believe in jesus but do not believe in the creation accounts in genesis.

As for playing by god's rule all I have to say is god's rules or man's rules? You have no evidence at all to show that any god gave any law or rule to any man, all you have are men writing down rules and laws and saying that god told them to write it. What is your basis for believing that the bible is the word of god and not the hindu text? is it because you were brought up in a culture that accepts the bible as the word of god?

davidylan:
you just confirmed my hunch. Responding to you is a wasted effort as you're not rationally sane enough to comprehend sound judgement. Good luck.

You displayed a pure case of paranoia by falsely accusing me of personal insulting you when I did no such thing at all and you claim to be rationally sane to comprehend sound judgment while I am unable to do so? . Learn to know that people are not out to get you when they disagree with you. Good luck to you too.

davidylan:
the usual personality attack that adds NOTHING to the topic at hand.

Please your paranoia is really getting out of hand, where did I attack you personally please? Learn to know that people are not out to get you when they disagree with you.

you say the bible makes claims without evidence . . . BUT YET we have an entire thread devoted to someone's conjecture that has NO EVIDENCE and you're not equally as appalled as you would be if this had been a discussion on creationism?

Did he tell you that his conjecture is true? Sure his conjecture is no different from that of the bible because all of them have no evidence to back them up. Where did I say that I was appalled by creationism? . You talked about how false the theory of evolution and the BB were nobody said that you were appalled by them. As usual your paranoia knows no bounds. People that do not agree with what you believe are not necessarily out to get you.

If no one has any clue how the world came to be, what is the basis for rejecting the biblical view?

A look at the earth and universe says that the creation account written in genesis is only a wild conjecture.

davidylan:
You cant see beyond your own nose. Its funny that your "curiousity" NEVER leads you to consider for even a remote second that the bible could be true. It seems your "curiosity" is mainly geared towards ANYTHING that can explain life outside of the bible.

Has it ever occurred to you that he might have once considered the bible to be true but left it after knowing that it isn't true so he decided to look else where? The bible does not explain how life came about at all it only makes wild claims without any evidence at all that are NOT true.

If every body will just drop his ego then I do not know will be a better answer to all these questions. I once tried to subscribe to evolution but I know its all another piece of conjecture no different from creationism so i dropped it off. The big bang is just another conjecture modern scientist use in recreating how they believe the universe came about but the BB it self has a lot of holes and provides no evidence at all. The universe did not come about from a big bang, Creationism (of all religions) is just the how medieval men thought the earth and what is contained it came about nothing more. The FACT still remains that nobody truly knows how the universe actually came about all we have are wild guesses and conjectures with no evidence to support them at all. I don't know is the best position to take for now because that is the truth for now no body knows.