₦airaland Forum

buda don't do play with muttley, you know that! Especially when muttley distorts what buda wrote by adding an extra 'l'! Don't you see how we've been accusing you of distortion since your first comment on this thread?

Learn first, then play!

happney65:
There you go again..You see why I said you trumpsters and buharists reason the same.

Stop insulting my bubu please!
Not all buharists are trumpissed!

He committed suicide!

MuttleyLaff:
Both of you are such a skeptic and cynic, you both had me up in stitches, laughing out loud literally, I was reading your posts and doubling up with laughter so hard I almost knocked over my glass of room temperature rouge. I'll say "amen" to liking both posts

And I'll call it progress. A tiny step albeit, but considering the effort in getting it, a giant leap forward indeed!

Cynicism and sceptism are healthy, muttley. If a God can be written to have cursed one to death for eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and place a cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth on the east side of the Garden of Eden to guard the way to the tree of life, then send its own so called only begotten son to come die on a cross to give one that eternal life which is the fruit of the tree of life, you got to wonder if those writing and telling you about it know what they are talking about or have taken up the right to be the cherubim with flaming swords for their own advantage. Serpents can be that wily!

Ubenedictus:
that may very well be your interpretation and in a subjective sense that may very well be what the text says to you as a person.


The text I read of the last supper narrative hardly talked about faith, Jesus took a memorial meal and made it his own memorial.

He took bread, blessed it and broke it gavery it out and said it is his body, the same body that he gives for us.
He took wine did the same and said that is his blood, the very blood that seals his covenant... It doesn't get clearer than that for a historic Christian whether a catholic or Orthodox or oriental, Paul then tells us in his letters that the blessed cup of the early church liturgy is a participation in Jesus Christ own blood and the broken bread is a participation in Jesus's own body and warn that he who cannot discern what he is eating and he who is unworthy to eat it both court trouble for themselves.

That's pretty simple for me, I don't need to import the theme of faith into the text, the text is about Jesus Christ giving us his body and blood as the anamesis of his sacrifice.

That is pretty much the ancient understanding of that passage and you'll see it in the early Christian writing and more so all the ancient churches hold it.

How was ur day?

My day has been good. Though you made me choke when I saw the word "faith" inputed to me, that word, and "believe", being the two most hated and detested words of mine!

"I am the bread of life", said Christ. He goes on to use one of my most hated words but in the baav, this word is rendered "to understand", and "to emulate", and all in response to the question "What must we do to do the works God requires?”

There was an "ancient understanding" too by the time Christ came Uben, but did he not come with a sword to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law such that a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household’? I daresay that where the "ancient understanding" of Paul and his faith is especially concerned, I defer to the "ancient understanding" of James with his works and faith, and with my sword by my side and at hand. It is to this I allude with my "And by 'life injected into', I mean not just claiming "Lord! Lord!", but "doing my will"."

But, hey! One understands that it is the blind who are made to see, the lame who walk, the lepers who are cured, the deaf who hear, the dead who are raised to life, and the Good News is for the poor. It is a grave error to think everyone is the poor, Uben, or that it is the lame who are made to see!

MuttleyLaff:
In fairness, to an untrained and/or unsuspecting eye, it is going to be hard to see where and how Jephthah vowed to send anyone to do seminary work, but it is there.

Untrained to see what's not there, perhaps, and trained to see what they want you to see maybe, but what please is the benefit in being trained to be blind or to make up things in one's head and claim it is seen? Is that not the complete opposite of what Jesus taught and died for?

You failed to consider the get out clause I gave you regarding Abraham at the beginning. I guess you failed to see it as such when I accused Abraham of mistaking his old gods for Yahweh. I know the Bible does not say so, but couldn't that have happened, with the voice of the real god saving the day but the writers themselves not knowing the difference? Knowing a serpent meddled in the Garden of Eden and meddled with Jesus on the mountain, would it be so difficult to assume it would meddle with Abraham and meddle with the Bible too? Oh, I forget, not only is God Almighty, but so too are the inspired writers of the Holy Bible despite most likely not knowing their noses from their asses, and the text of the Bible we currently read being edited and reedited over and over again to suit the sensibilities of the day. God forbid that a corrupt text come off the most holy editing and printing press in heaven!

One thing no one has brought up here is the reason the more original texts do not exist anymore. They were more explicit in narrating the blood thirstiness of Yahweh, which over time made it rather distasteful so they were suppressed and new ones written with Yahweh's bloodthirst written out. If they could get away with it, the walls of Jericho would be written out too and we would not read anywhere that Yahweh required the annihilation of entire tribes if not that doing so so late in the day when many know what's written already will discredit or force a rethink of the whole of Christianity.

Jesusjnr opened a thread about atheist not following Jesus, which I've been considering responding to muttley, but haven't yet. When I do, I'd be using the socratic definition of atheism which means to not worship the gods of Athens, and which means not being brainwashed into the prevailing point of view as held by the majority, but using ones own God given senses, as Jesus did, to sieve out the truth. The cost of doing so is huge as shown by the cross atheist (according to his crucifiers) Jesus ended up on, and it may piss you off finding out you've been brainwashed all this long, but you will at least be free in the end, muttley, and I tell you the truth that being unshackled from indoctrination and being free to use ones own mind is worth dying for, as our Lord Jesus Christ has taught, and as I insist on teaching you to do too because I think you are capable of seeing having had mud spat on and rubbed in your eye, muttley!

I'd ask you to just say "amen", but know you can't help writing epistles!

MuttleyLaff:
Applied Social Sciences BSocSc (Hons), and stop mucking about if you know, no matter how small it might be, you cant be of any help.

Local authorities are always after social workers, if that's what you mean. Try their websites or jobscouk.

It was disagreement with the Church's selling of indulgences that Martin Luther opposed, 9, and some will claim rightly too since the Church had no right selling tickets to heaven! Jesus too did exactly the same thing when he opposed the church of his day claiming they gave stones instead of bread, and as Luther caused a breakaway from Catholicism and the creation of Protestantism so too did Jesus cause the breakaway from Judaism and the creation of Christianity. I'm sure they both burn in hell for their disobedience to the church of their respective days.

All the same, you have convinced me to become Catholic, after all it's not like there's anywhere in the Bible they preach where it says fruits matter, and, in as much as I commit one sin, so why would the fact that the Church, its leaders at that, produce some rotten fruits, matter? Just remind me of the chapter and verse so that when anyone asks me about the rotten fruits of my newly joined sect I can tell them I am a member of the the "body of Christ" the Catholic Church that is the "custodian of his Word", the "pillar and foundation of Truth" and the "ONLY body instituted by Christ through which unadulterated Christianity" is taught, and I'm going to heaven because rotten fruits do not matter and they are going to hell, please.

And thanks for converting me to that "unadulterated Christianity", 9. Your time and effort has been appreciated.

MuttleyLaff:
by the way, do you know anywhere or anyone that can give someone work in the social sciences fields please?

The social sciences include, but are not limited to: anthropology, archaeology, communication studies, economics, history, human geography, jurisprudence, linguistics, political science, psychology, public health, and sociology. The term is also sometimes used to refer specifically to the field of sociology, the original "science of society", established in the 19th century. For a more detailed list of sub-disciplines within the social sciences see: Outline of social science.

I'm worried about you muttley!

MuttleyLaff:
the actual word used in the original text than the "commemorate" budaatum preferred to used,

Which original text are you referring to muttley?

"Commemorate" was the word used in the NIV, and not buda's choice, and unless your claim is buda wrote it, you might want to take it up with it. The KJV uses "lament" which isn't too far off!

MuttleyLaff:
Lastly, there, up above is the concrete and scriptural evidence in Judges 11:39, that though there was a bit of delay in paying vow #1,
it eventually got paid when Jephthah's daughter after two months, gave herself up to her fate of a lifetime "seminary work" in God's presence or temple.

This is the sort of lie you blind yourself with so you can't see. It also explains why you can't reason properly since you'd either write in such a way that you don't mean what you say, or twist other people's writing the way you've twisted scripture here.

Verse 39 goes:

After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.

First, what was his vow again, and where did he vow to send her to do seminary work muttley?

Here's verse 40,

From this comes the Israelite tradition that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.

Commemorate means, to recall and show respect for (someone or something).
"a wreath-laying ceremony to commemorate the war dead".

I don't think there's anywhere in the Bible where it says "Thou must not lie to yourself", muttley, but it is advice worth considering. Your blindness is like that of one who chooses to cover one's eyes and not put on a light so one can stumble in darkness. You need to learn to be kinder to yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt66kbYmXXk

sureheaven:
PDP shld first call for the arrest of FFK, Fayose, Lere olayinka and timi frank who have said worst of what Miyetti Allah.

I wonder o! Some people don't think! Arrested for what? Like if I say bad thing about Buhari, I should be arrested! As if they would like Nigeria to be like that.

If there weren't other gods Yahweh would not be so jealous to have to tell you to "worship no other gods but me"!

budaatum:
It is not legal to abort a foetus at 9 months in New York!

budaatum:
Here is a link to the act.

If you read the entire article you might find that op distorted the facts a bit!

ARTICLE 25-A
REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH ACT
SECTION 2599-AA. ABORTION.
§ 2599-AA. ABORTION. 1. A HEALTH CARE PRACTITIONER LICENSED, CERTIFIED, OR AUTHORIZED UNDER TITLE EIGHT OF THE EDUCATION LAW, ACTING WITH-
IN HIS OR HER LAWFUL SCOPE OF PRACTICE, MAY PERFORM AN ABORTION WHEN,
ACCORDING TO THE PRACTITIONER'S REASONABLE AND GOOD FAITH PROFESSIONAL
JUDGMENT BASED ON THE FACTS OF THE PATIENT'S CASE: THE PATIENT IS WITHIN
TWENTY-FOUR WEEKS FROM THE COMMENCEMENT OF PREGNANCY, OR THERE IS AN
ABSENCE OF FETAL VIABILITY, OR THE ABORTION IS NECESSARY TO PROTECT THE
PATIENT'S LIFE OR HEALTH.

Anduku:
Not content with legalizing abortion up until the moment of birth, these despicable, blood sucking liberals are now pushing for children to be killed even after they have already been born courtesy governor Ralph Northam in Virginia.

When you start to fabricate untruths, it becomes obvious that you don't really have a point!

AreaFada2:
Who is talking about arrest? Certainly not me. A lot is known about Muller's investigation. Certainly through revelations of Trump's associates.

You know nothing about Mueller's investigation of Trump! Even Trump who's being investigated knows nothing about Mueller's investigation of him!

Please get your understanding right, or be honest!

obixcel:
I know you all are worried about POTUS' next Supreme Court pick,

Really? Because Potus is picking the next Supreme Court Judge from Nigeria for Nigeria where the President can presumably tell the judge the decision he wants and get it?

I'm laughing, lol!

MuttleyLaff:
They knew Yahweh alright budaatum, but didnt know Yahweh in the context of what the name means, entails and/or what it is all about

They "knew Yahweh" but "didnt know Yahweh in context"

If I claim to know Yahweh but don't know Yahweh in context, would you not claim I don't know Yahweh at all? And if I don't know Yahweh in context please explain to me how I'd different Yahweh's voice from me just tripping?

MuttleyLaff, switch on your brain please, I beg you! You are tripping!

TATIME:
You've spoken or typed correctly Sir!
I am talking about "my God" so the rules are JUST for those who revere HIM not those who feels no need of a God. So you're EXCLUDED Sir,such guidance has nothing as in NOTHING to do with you Sir!

Remember that when you make out your god has authority over buda please.

MuttleyLaff:
budaatum, you will know the Yoruba colloquial that goes like this: "Ma fi han ẹ leni, nkan ti orukọ mi jẹ, iwọ kan jọ jẹ duro demi, iwọ na ma gba" loosely translated means "I will show you today, what my name is all about, you just wait and hang about, you will see a terrific demonstration of it today, you'll be awed"

budaatum, that is not what that verse is talking about. The verse is messaging that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob knew God as All-Powerful or Omnipotent but they never got to know, they never got to witness, they never got to see a demonstration of what it means to be Yahweh. They knew him to be Yahweh, but God, in respect of that name, did not make Himself fully known to them

So, they did not fully know Yahweh, right, and knew just a bit about Yahweh, and could have mistaken the voice in their head for the voice of a god just as you misunderstand the bible sometimes?

I'm seriously worried about you muttley. In your attempt to swindle others, you can't but help swindling yourself and it can't be healthy. Seek help, I advise you!

MuttleyLaff:
"I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty,
but by my name the Yahweh I did not make myself fully known to them."
- Exodus 6:3

So perhaps go back to where I said poor Abraham could be mistaking his old gods for Yahweh, after all, Yahweh had not fully made itself known even a few generations after Abraham was long dead!

9inches:
Now get straight: the Catholic church claims that it teaches, governs, and sanctifies with the authority of Christ himself. Catholics believe that this gift of Church authority is one of the jewels that Christ has given to us as an aid to our salvation. He promised to remain present in his Church for all time, and to guide it through the presence of the Holy Spirit. The source and guarantee of this Church authority is Christ’s continuing presence in his Church - "Lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age" (Mt 28:20). The purpose of this authority is to give the Church the ability to teach without error about the essentials of salvation (Mt 16:18).

The Catholic Church may claim so, but you yourself admit and agree with me that "there are words outside the Catholic Church and outside Christianity even, all godly too" , and "a non believer can possibly get to heaven". And besides, Jesus never said anything whatsoever about any one particular church!

One thing I dislike about Christians is that you never get a full record of the symptoms before prescribing you own version of Christ. You assume everyone is poor but proclaim the good news to the lame, the blind, those who have leprosy, the deaf and the dead, when what they need is to receive sight, walk, be cleansed, hear, and be raised from the dead. Do you not understand what it means to give stones instead of bread? Did Christ not preach 'woe' to those who do this? One would think you think you should not cast your pearls in front of swine because your pearls are valuable, when the truth is that you should mind not to choke the poor swine with your pearls.

I am taking offence at you, 9, for calling me straw, when the truth is I "Exactly! Well captured, well done", your argument! If you could be thinking I am so straw when I'm not, then maybe it is not me who is straw here!

Ubenedictus:
Buda i did note it. you have argue for subjective and also noted objective.

In masonry, it's called, squaring the circle, and is also what one learns from studying Koans in Zen. In Zen, we say, Mu, in recognition that things are not only good or evil, black or white or positive or negative.

It's not easy to show what I mean, but I see it in the Gospels with Jesus not being blinded by the subjective view of the religious order of his day with their fire and brimstone god, and which allowed him to objectively approach the text and subjectively interpret it in light of a loving merciful God.

You see, however one wishes to see God and the Bible, one must approach it from, using your own words, "the bible says God is merciful", and anything that fails to comply with this can not be of God.

Taking God's mercifullness, a subjective but necessary view, as given, informs how one subjectively understands one's reading of the Bible as a religious text. But there's still the objective view, as in one without the religion and belief, which informs one too.

I, an atheist, read my bible for the book it is without the religious indoctrination for or against that most receive before reading it having never been fed it from childhood. I'll call that a somewhat objective reading. But despite being an atheist, also allow it to come alive in my subjective reading as a religious text. A spiritual reading might be a suitable description for this latter sort of reading.

I apply the "bread alone" to not reading it in only one single way, see.

9inches:
Crux of the matter: What's the "proper" way of reading the bible?

See in my response immediately above.

Ubenedictus:
.

SO if a catholic or an orthodox or oriental christian is directing you to one interpretation he actually means this is the sense this has always been understood in the church for every century.

You called them "commentaries", and they seem to change over time, so I am going to heed your warning against them and go up the mountain with Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel to get my own interpretation directly from God as I stated I would here, with the one guiding principle that whatever I get must be godly. Amen.

I got my Quran from the Metropolitan Cathedral of the Precious Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ, by the way. They did a course over 9 weeks on understanding Islam which I appreciate them for. Their objectivity on the subject was commendable.

HappyPagan:
.

I replied him in the negative - I have never been that bored.

It must have been strange to find Yahweh wasn't reigning in India. I had a similar experience when I first got to Nigeria. I came from a place where they teach one to ask what, why, when, where, at an early age, so imagine when people tell you god done it and you're asking and the answers they give sound something out of Homer's Odysseus which they're claiming is fact and you must believe it! It's what made me go church, to find out what they were talking about, and what made me read the Bible only to find those telling me to believe hadn't ever read the book! I got lots of beatings just for telling them what I'd read!

Thankfully, I had parents who would never, at the time, ask me to believe anything. Dad was a lawyer, so you had to prove your case with evidence and facts, and ma being a nurse never could quite get her head around immaculate conception after finding out Jerusalem and Egypt were places on earth and not in heaven as she'd been made to believe before going there on her way to London.

We have a long way to go in our nation. I don't think we've yet got to the stage where many read it objectively, if at all (note that, Ubenedictus, despite my earlier position). When we do, our eyes will open and only then would we truly “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth and subdue it”, as we understand what it means to be God as people in more developed nations do.

MuttleyLaff:
Just saw this. SMH.

It's not funny, muttley, not funny at all

JujuSugar:
. You must be very good friends to know him so well like this

Oh, we have history. He's taking me out someday when I can muster up the self control to not kick his silly head in!

Ubenedictus:
you may be suprised the type of bibles believers read, one of my bibles have notes that the author thinks the prophesys were writing after the event had already happened. many thinks the some prophesy we interprete was actually meant for a different time. some pastors now teach that prophesys are fulfilld 2ice to account for the fact that the current interpretation may not be d jewish interpretation....
believers can be a wild bunch, mind u the bible that think prophesies were written after the even is approved by a church body.

Many christian simply filter those note, i certainly do.

Sounds like a classic definition of subjective, to me. Nasty when got wrong, but life affirming when got right.