₦airaland Forum

Hermes019:
Could you define God ?
Tell me God's features and .

Yes, and in your own words:

"An entity which caused or played a role in its existence" and it's features".

And from your own definition, it's features would be that of a "causer" or "role player".

Now, you tell us how you came to ascertain the above!

gensteejay:
**Modified

All right. Although, I'm irreligious, I'm not an atheist either. And I also hate labels.

I perfectly understand why an atheist would regard the concept of God in religions as a sham. God and his attributes, as explained in religions, are creations and fabrications of men.

That doesn't mean there is no God. But I don't like to use the word, "God", to describe the Entity that I regard as Infinite Intelligence (infinite understanding by humans) because that word has been grossly abused by all those jealous, insecure, and vengeful gods of religions that seek to be worshipped.

I know the universes, men, animals, and all that exists are created by an Entity (through a process, i.e. evolution). I prefer to call it The All, as Hermetic philosophers would say, or the Infinite Intelligence, and such an Entity wouldn't demand worship, punish people for evils they commit, and wouldn't create paradise or hell as places of reward or retribution, as the case may be.

And the Entity isn't sitting up there, monitoring our activities and regulating our affairs; every living thing, planet, universe, multiverse ... lies in The All. In other words, we are all parts or aspects of The All.

Associating things, like worship, prayer, forgiveness, benevolence, hate, love to the Infinite Intelligence is erroneous like the religionists do.

For instance, when science gets to an advanced level and virtually all societies become advanced ones, there is no need for anyone to pray. Prayer, as some philosophers say, is for the weak. Thinking is better and wiser.

The universe is governed by laws (rules), and these laws do not recognize Forgiveness. The Infinite Intelligence is not emotional like the gods of religions.

All other examples I gave above — love, hate, etc.— are mere relativistic concepts, whose meanings and implications change, depending on your frame of reference.

I don't fathom how atheists have sought answers to these questions satisfactorily and reached the conclusion that there is no Infinite Intelligence (not God or gods as described in religions) behind the creation of our world and several hundreds of billion worlds out there.

Most people became an atheist due to the way and manner God is described in religions. After studying a number of religions myself, I have seen their flaws, which is why I embraced irreligion.

I have also studied atheism, and its core concepts, like the problem of evil and the problem of good, and have seen its flaws. (Though if a large percentage, or even 50% of Nigerians were atheists, this country would have been much more developed than this.)

How is it possible for the hundreds of billions of planets and billions of galaxies to come into existence from NOTHING?

I feel atheists, having recognised the flaws in religions, should also critique the atheistic philosophy and note its flaws, and read books on philosophy, especially the Hermetic Philosophy. These will enable one gain a better insight on reality and grow, instead of being stagnant in the parochiality of atheism.

First let me mention that you have caused me to bring my mind to this discussion, and nothing pleases me more so thank you immensely! Second, note how I have placed some alternative words in your's above for consideration. I'll be using those alternatives in my response. They are at best, lenses through which we look, labels that we wear that distort what we see, and which Buddhism refers to as the finger that points to the moon and not the moon itself.

Labels are how most people understand others. They are the rudiments of language by which we communicate. But when we pigeonhole others with those labels, we claim we completely understand them, but that's like defining an elephant by it's trunk. Religions however encourage this simplistic attitude, which I am atheistic towards, as in, it is not a believe I adopt. Yet, one has no choice in the matter of labels when discussing with others for the benefit of being understood. Still, one must guide against taking the pointing finger for the moon it points to.

You say, infinite intelligence, and by choosing that phrase, you automatically, by implication, place your infinite intelligence in some external entity, whereby, I am placing an infinite understanding in the heads of humans. We both look at the universe, and you assume, if you don't mind my saying, that something must have created it, while I understand that it came in to being. It's like we both look at the course of a river, and since it appears to flow in what could be considered the best possible course for it to flow, one of assumes something intelligent designed that course while the other claims the river chose its own course guided by the simple rule (as opposed to a law) that water always flows downhill, which is explained by the rule of gravity. If there is evidence for a creator, I will willingly accept it but I am not likely to look at the course of a river and assume it's flow was created by anything but itself and the downhill rule of the flow of water. My atheism stops me from creating and fabricating things beyond the obvious rules that the universe appears to always obey, and which we seem to have the infinite ability to understand if we but search for them.

You ask "How is it possible for the hundreds of billions of planets and billions of galaxies to come into existence from NOTHING? And you say you know "the universes, men, animals, and all that exists are created by an Entity". To start with, atheism does not imply that the hundreds of billions of planets and billions of galaxies came into existence from NOTHING! An honest atheist will accept that they do not know how these things came about. I ask, do you really know how these things came about, or is it not truer to say that all you truly know is these things exist and how they came to exist is way beyond your knowledge? I, to be honest, only know that the hundreds of billions of planets and billions of galaxies exist, and any claim beyond that is not part of knowledge that I have, but a belief I may chose to hold on to with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to justify holding that belief - if I chose to hold on to it, which I don't. The truth is, I don't know how "the hundreds of billions of planets and billions of galaxies" and "universes, men, animals, and all that exists" came into existence, and neither am I willing to accept any of the religious ideas, be it God said, or a big bang, as reasons for their existence. Honesty, and an acceptance of the limits of my own understanding, allow me to take this stance and be content with it, and there's no need for me to create and fabricate beliefs in my head and claim they are things that I know. My atheism has not found "answers to these questions satisfactorily", but I feel no need to fill in the gap with an intelligent designer, or "Infinite Intelligence", as you call it. For though I claim that the entire human race has an infinite ability to understand, I know that I may possibly never reach the point of complete understanding, but still, we can continue to strive to reach that understanding rather than adopt a stop gap solution by inserting a belief for knowledge we are yet to attain. And by I, I do mean the entire human race for ever and ever. The evidence does however suggest that things follow the rules of evolution and have evolved into being what they are and which we see today. And they would continue becoming whatever they will become. But how it all began is so far back in time that we can only speculate, or create and fabricate beliefs about it, all of which I feel no need to do being mere human with limited knowledge.

I must say, I do not know what the core concepts of atheism are apart from the non-acceptance of an intelligent designer, be it gods, infinite or anything else, apart from a disbelieve and rejection of such notions, and not claiming to know what there's no evidence for. Atheism does not hold to the view that the hundreds of billions of planets and billions of galaxies came into existence from NOTHING! Atheism simply implies not filling the gap with "creations and fabrications of humans" without evidence, and has nothing to do with "the problem of evil and the problem of good". And that's where religion, or education, I would say, steps in, after all, that's what religion really is, a process of educating people about good and evil. It just so happens that the curriculum is based around our early understandings of things which is god based, but we are slowly evolving towards non-god based morality. Not many today after all believe that gods punish wrongdoing as seen by our inability to leave wrongdoers to be punished by gods with most societies choosing to inflict human punishment instead. But how about wrongdoings not punished by society, one might ask, like not working for one's daily bread, or being unkind to one's fellow humans. Does not reality deal with such wrongdoings itself, I ask? A great text in hermeticism says, "one who sows maize, reaps maize, and one who sows barley reaps barley. Humans reap what they sow". The fact that this is so can be observed in the universe, such that one can claim it as a rule. Or is it not true that everyone reaps what they sow? I can assure you that you chose to allow me to reap the intelligence of your mind because you have seen what I sowed and if I were as dumb as some, you would not have rewarded me with the intelligence that you have. Basically, you would not have cast your pearls in front of me if I were a swine. Do correct me if I am wrong. And not so much because a god said so, but just because, like me, you are human. I assure you that I would not have come up with this response to you if it were not for the intelligence which you sowed before me. And if I do not work for my manna, it will not from heaven drop into my mouth!

Just so it's known, I was fortunate to not have religionising parents whilst growing up and only got to know of gods as creators when I first arrived in Nigeria aged 7. Before that, I was familiar with Egyptian, Greek and Roman gods, but they were not taught to me as things to believe, but as things to understand along with the ability to think rationally which was the underlying lesson. In Nigeria, we are taught about gods as if they are facts that we must hold on to unfortunately, and the ability to reason is substituted with the principle of belief. It is this attitude to gods, the need to believe as opposed to the ability to seek to understand, that holds us back as a nation and which with every breathe I oppose, since it only promotes slavery to those whom we believe are more worthy and privileged than us to go up the mountain to the gods. As I've said on here, I'm the sort who would insist on going up the mountain too, and any god who considers me unworthy is not worthy of my time even if I were to believe that those who do go up return to claim they saw gods, which I wouldn't believe anyway.

Thanks for your time! I agree that everything is a hermetic whole, and if I were religiously inclined, could not but end this by saying it's all for the glory of that whole, or your "Infinite Intelligence", or the gods as some would put it, or my so called infinite ability of humans to seek understanding. They are labels, fingers, all. But they must not be mistaken for what they point to and imply and which we ought not to be reticent in seeking to understand.

Ranchhoddas:
Just so I am not mixing things up.
What do you think made your toes move?

The knowledge that made the neurologists place a suggestive picture on the wall in the room, the steroids they gave me to heal my damaged nerves, the doctors continously suggesting I try to move my toes, the positive mind I continued to have, and the crane far off that came in the window and wiggled my toes, Ranch, all made my toes move.

It was a miracle, I assure you.

Buda wishes Trump the same!

Ranchhoddas:
Miracle: An extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore [b]attributed to a divine agency.[/b]

Wrongly, and due to ignorance.

I'm sure I've told you about buda's miracle all the same.

gensteejay:
Lols. I didn't mean any insult. Sorry.
I see you read wide and are a knowledgeable person; that was why I made reference to your comment on being a Jungian.
I am trying to reconcile the fact that you lean toward Jungian philosophy with your atheistic philosophy.

Carl Jung was a man, well versed in spirituality and philosophy, and did a number of studies that involved paranormal and occultic (not necessarily evil as ignorant religionists say) concepts.

His ideals seem contradictory to those of an atheist. How then do you regard some of his philosophical notions as veracious?

Many have understood Jung that way, but for me, he pulled the wool off the spiritual and occult. I don't read intending to confirm my already held views, I guess, and hope to be challenged, which he did. Besides, I'd read a lot of anthropology before approaching him so I might have been immune.

He explained how religion works and how it affects and influences people, and did say one has to kill one's gods. It depends how one sees him and the lens one wears whilst reading his works I'd say. I'd go as far as claiming he was an atheist at heart, or would be described as one by those who like labels. Same way I am labeled an atheist, gods being things that only exist in the minds of those in whom they are created. Gods are not created in my mind, but I understand how they exist in the minds of some. I guess the gods created buda an atheist, for all intents and purposes.

You didn't insult me by the way. buda is just oversensitive, as muttley says.

There, done!

MuttleyLaff:
budaatum calm down, its barely a day yet into the New Year and you're already doing "alafejumo ole" Oliver Twist

Before you get your knickers in a twist, the overriding part of "not to overthinking too much" were the two keywords "too much"
We can overthink, but not to overthink too much. Capisce?

Your too much, is my not yet begun muttley. Try using your brain more. I promise, it will not run out!

Ubenedictus:
same to you dear.

It truly is OK not to know all the answers

But it's not ok not to seek answers, at least, for some of us!

PastorDavidAwuj:

Well! Imagine him trying to get me not to overuse my God given brain as if it would run out like his does! I wonder what God put it in my head for if not for it to be used!

MuttleyLaff, if you don't use the brain you are given, please know that it would be removed from inside your head and given to me who uses mine and I would become buda2brains, while you become muttleynobrain!

The choice is entirely your's!

gensteejay:
Since you're mainly interested in discussing unreal possibilities, which are only a product of imagination, I guess I would have to draw the curtain on this ratiocination.

I am primarily interested in discussing realistic concepts, not utopian ones.

Hey, that's not fair! The thread itself was about imagining! How else could we have gotten to a world without evil, or it's corresponding, good, for that matter?!

I'm hurt!

gensteejay:
One can learn by engaging in arguments with people, once such people are learned, pragmatic, civil, and not dogmatic. Anything short of this could be a waste of time.

Oh, this I agree to. When buda wastes your time, please let me know and I'll gladly do the reigning in.

MuttleyLaff:
https://i.pinimg.com/474x/d6/91/f2/d691f2f59b81bca264127d212b63b542.jpg
Glory and honour to God for witnessing 2019 which equates to a brand new 365 new days and 365 new chances to do the right thing

The Oga at the top Seun, amiable+capable moderators OAM4J & Mynd44, Ranchhoddas, budaatum, OtemAtum, PastorAIO, vaxx, tintingz, MizMyColi, MhizAngel99 aka LordReed, jesusjnr, Michellekabod RIP, luvmijeje, finalboss, MizyB, babeosisi, Goshen360, Ihedinobi3, bloodofthelamb, frank317, Gombs, petra1, joagbaje, OkCornel, OkaiCorne, VBCampaign, plainbibletruth, NPComplete, PastorDavidAwuj, LadyAnn, TATIME, Mujtahida, MrPresident1, Ishilove, naptu2, dominique, holahmihdeh, HappyPagan, JMG1, CAPSLOCKED, LoJ, Glycolysis, HopefulLandlord, solite3, paxonel, alBHAGDADI, francis247, Ubenedictus, 9inches, Syncan, Syncan, johnydon22, AAinEqGuinea, HardMirror, donnie, Akin1212, FOLYKAZE, manmustwac, Godsfavour78, frosbel2, Image123, Splinz, OLAADEGBU, Anas09, chemystery, JMAN05, delishpot, Mobilia, brocab, Primesky, DoctorAlien, Originakalokalo, omojeesu, tintingz, pressplay411, blueAgent, ScienceWatch, ichuka, , kevoh, JeromeBlack, chiedu7, scott67, TroublemakerPro etcetera

I vehemently wish my above aforementioned neighbours to stop overthinking too much because it's alright not to know all the answers

HAPPY 2019 everyone!

One person's overthink is another's just getting started, muttley. Not everyone is afraid of their mind running out. Especially those whose cup is full and overflowing. For some, burying head in sand is no option. Each to their own, I guess.

Happy you too.

gensteejay:
You stated you're a Jungian on a thread yesterday. By being a Jungian, does that mean you subscribe to Carl Jung's philosophy?

Did I? Know of, would be more accurate, and, influenced by, amongst many others, the Bible and Christianity included. I'm as Jungian as I am Christian, which I'm not, or at least I'm told I'm not being an atheist.

I'm live not by bread alone but by just about every book I've read.

Happy New Year

gensteejay:
All these are possible in the realm of imagination, and just about anything is achievable there.

Let's IMAGINE "the whole of Nairaland devoid of evil" as you say, what will be the characteristics of such a forum? Will Seun need to set any rules? If so, why are rules or laws necessary on a perfect forum?

Characteristics? Imagine? Ok, let's imagine. We could be a forum for good, promoting something worthwhile like goodness, education, anything worthwhile, instead of continued arguments, for instance.

gensteejay:
As regards your "lions eating wilderbeast" analogy, does the prey ever see the predator in good light? I'm sure if they did, they wouldn't run from them or try to defend themselves or their territory when attacked by belligerent foes. Can killing, in any form, be termed a "good" thing?

Depends who's killing, I guess.

gensteejay:
In your own opinion as an atheist, if natural disasters, such as earthquake, tsunamis, cyclone, etc. are not evil, then why are they called "natural disasters" by humans?

A natural disaster is not 'evil'. You might as well say death is evil too, when in fact, it's just the way things are. I guess one can imagine controlling the effects of natural disasters, however. The imagination can be that powerful. Regardless, shouldn't humans focus on what they can change instead of bothering about what they can't.

beamtopola:
This particular boy, always in every thread. Joblessness. BMC 30k is no salary bro

You we wey get job get time to de search for person nko!? Abi your job na "search for person wey no get job" ?

Na wa for some people o!

I tried posting comments regarding the above, but it seems my comment has been refused. Makes me wonder if the "popular Nigerian business news blog" is Naija247News!

Anyone got info about this blog please? It's not one I'm familiar with.

A popular Nigerian business news blog has been exposed while trying to blackmail one of the fastest growing banks recently. Information filtering in revealed that the business news blog and its publisher (names withheld) recently strategised their plots to blackmail Keystone Bank Limited and its managing director/CEO, Dr. Obeahon Ohiwerei.

According to sources close to the bank, the publisher of the blog had contacted Keystone Bank demanding a whopping N40 million to ‘kill’ purported stories which was discovered to be a fabrication of lies and allegation against the financial institution and its managing director/CEO. The publisher was told point-blank that the bank could not afford such amount of money. It was learnt that the publisher and blog was undaunted in his plan to obtain from the lender and its leadership. He therefore quickly pegged down his demand to N15 million, a negotiation which the bank also declined immediately. Angered that his plot to blackmail the bank was becoming unsuccessful, the publisher threatened to publish the false stories to rubbish the bank and its CEO. When contacted, a staff of the bank who doesn’t want his name in the print confirmed the story. According to him, after building its reputation to its present standard, Keystone Bank will not succumb to cheap blackmails or any blackmail for that matter.

“We are waiting for him to make good his threats. I can assure you that the bank will not hesitate to use all legal means to seek redress as a deterrent to other unscrupulous elements out there,” he said.

Read more


The k on story is getting bigger!

DeSepiero:
Ebuka should have dumped religion by now.

You will note that the more heavily they are invested in their previous religious state, the more likely they are to disappear when the conversion occurs.

MuttleyLaff:
Exactly my point, you just are only reinforcing it. Thats why I said I am not surprised.
Give it a rest, simply let it go, certain things in life, you'll never know the answer for.
So, what do you do? Nothing, except simply get on with it, move on and get on with the rest of life.

PS: please budaatum all these bad energy and negativity should've been be left behind in 2018. Wipe the slate clean, start afresh, start all over

"Wipe the plate clean"! "Start afresh"! " Start all over"!

Did you never learn that one must test one's medicine oneself before giving it to others? It don't look to me like you bothered!

Not knowing, is not the same as accepting any old crap and claiming that's it, muttley. Filling the gaps of ignorance with crap may work for you, but buda is not designed to just give up searching. And how difficult must it be to find evidence, which you say you already have, that my Lord is another!?

Do you know that this is how you create the attitude that allows Hines and Bonkers to exploit people? And coming from a "The truth will set you free" siggy wearer! You need to change clothes to "don't bother even looking", perhaps. It would define your attitude better than "piss you off"!

I need to warn you so pay close attention. You, MuttleyLaff, are on my mission list 2019. Vaxx was the last on my 2018 list, but he dropped off it by the end of the year. You, sir, will use your brain whether you want to or not!

Be warned that buda does not relent, tire, or fail!

MuttleyLaff:
PS I watched that your "giving false hope" miracle video last night. I was grieved & hurt though I previously knew those two chaps are scammers budaatum

I watched it in my bubbles too and it got me fumming! Disgraceful! But which one of them all is not a fraud? And why the tinies? Afraid to admit the preachers of your faith use it to exploit others?

Does Tunde Bakare do miracles, by the way.

MuttleyLaff:
What part of, you need not have more evidence that what I've already given, dont you want to accept.
You can take my word to the bank but I am not surprised you wont.

This is buda! Atheist buda! The buda who takes no one's word for anything that really matters! How dare you make out you are god, with "take your word for it"?! Are you nuts or something? Left your brain in last year maybe? About "accept!

Show me, man. Or shut the fuq up!

joseph1013:


You may want to look up the logical fallacy. Fallacies are not valid arguments.

Here, Tatime, is a list of fallacies that might be of help.

MuttleyLaff:
Yeah, I saw it, and think it was on the "You Become An Atheist Due To Limited Knowledge" thread

"Amo ara wa, ti a ba rira wa"
loosely translated means "we recognise each other when we bump into each other"

I am not giving away trade secrets and insider knowledge, so not saying or giving out more than that

Well, you know I'm not the sort to just take one's word for it.

No evidence, you might as well be talking through your ass, as far as buda is concerned.

Live long and prosper!

MuttleyLaff:
Let me whisper it to you, dont let the walls hear. That's no spring chicken, that is LordReed masquerading with his alter ego MhizAngel99

Do you know there's some idiot claiming my Lord is buda too?

I don't believe this! Evidence please!

urahara:
Wooow , so the modern Egyptians have even more sub Saharan blood than the ancient Egyptians!!!!!

That's what wiki says, at least.

urahara:
Looool , so Egypt is not enough , you also want to start claiming Libya nad Morocco

To be honest, they all were border countries and along ancient trade routes so inter racial breeding could have happened early enough to give a mix which may not have been mostly black depending on which migrated there the most. The evidence does suggest they are not of the more southern blacks, as you claimed, though I'd expect them to be more black African the further one goes back in time.

If you have any evidence on the matter urahara please share.

urahara:
This is total rubbish , Egyptians have never been black. DNA tests on their mummies have shown them to be of predominately Eurasian descent.

You may actually be right.

In the last few years, the first credible, peer-reviewed genetic studies on Ancient Egyptians have been conducted, which show that a small but significant and consistent percentage of Ancient Egyptian ancestry came from sub-Saharan Africa. This ancestry is lowest in northern Egypt, and becomes increasingly large as one proceeds south through the populations of Middle and Upper (southern) Egypt. A 2017 genetic study of 83 mummies from northern Egypt (buried near modern-day Cairo), which constituted "the first reliable data set obtained from ancient Egyptians using high-throughput DNA sequencing methods," showed that these persons were most closely related to the diverse modern populations of what is now the Arab world, particularly the southern Levant and Arabia, while also indicating smaller affinities to the neighboring southeastern European and sub-Saharan African (Nubian) populations. Though the mummies were much more closely related to Arab populations than European, they were actually slightly more closely related to southeastern Europeans than modern Egyptians, a fact publicized in the press coverage of the study; the genetic distance between Ancient and modern Egyptians reflects the much greater level of sub-Saharan African ancestry in modern Egyptians, who are heavily mixed with sub-Saharan Africans, and may also stem from a faulty comparison on the part of the study's authors, who compared Lower (northern) Egyptian mummies to the average genetic composition of all contemporary Egyptians (from both Upper and Lower Egypt).

Nevertheless, all 83 mummies tested had significant levels of sub-Saharan African ancestry, although this ancestry was relatively distant. Specifically, the mummies contained between 6% and 15% sub-Saharan African ancestry, with this component getting increasingly large in the later eras of Ancient Egypt. The study's authors noted that this is much less than the percentage of sub-Saharan African ancestry in modern Egyptians, and emphasized the genetic distance between modern and Ancient Egyptians. The authors also cautioned that their findings might be unrepresentative of Ancient Egypt as a whole, anticipating that mummies from Upper (southern) Egypt would contain considerably greater levels of sub-Saharan African ancestry than the Lower Egyptian mummies they examined, and calling for more future research on the matter.