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Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 2:02pm On Mar 21, 2018

Compare wth:

Spinozism (also spelled Spinoza-ism or Spinozaism) is the monist philosophical system of Baruch Spinoza which defines "God" as a singular self-subsistent substance, with both matter and thought being attributes of such.

When Spinoza wrote "Deus sive Natura" ("God or Nature" ) Spinoza meant God was Natura naturans not Natura naturata, that is, "a dynamic nature in action, growing and changing, not a passive or static thing."

The concept of a personal relationship with God comes from the position that one is a part of an infinite interdependent "organism". Spinoza argued that everything is a derivative of God, interconnected with all of existence. Although humans only experience thought and extension, what happens to one aspect of existence will still affect others.

Christianity Etc › Re: DISCUSSION: YHWH (jewish) And Enki (epic Of Gilgamesh) Who Is Older? by budaatum: 1:46pm On Mar 21, 2018

Aten, Atum, Otem, was not so much the only god, but first amongst the Egyptian gods, having created himself and spitting the god Shu and goddess Tefnut out of his mouth. Aten is symbolised by the sun, which was considered by some to be 'the all before anything else' and the 'life giving force'. It was however not the central worshipped god as other forces were considered important at different periods and by different Pharaohs. Basically, the gods had been decentralised.

By elevating Aten above all other gods, which by his time were in the many, Akhenaten is directing power to one central overarching account, and by effect, stopping the flow of funds to the priests of the other gods which created an inflation in the royal accounts but caused a recession similar to that caused by Buhari’s Treasury Single Account in society. No wonder they killed him.

Incidentally, the centralising and elevation of Yahweh to supreme god in Judaism is obscured in the narrative of the Torah. But it's there. There were always many gods, but often, one rises above all others and claims "Thou shalt have no other Gods but Me". Political expediency necessitates the 'one god' as a centralising idea at some time or the other. Consider Rome's adoption of Judaism, Henry VIII's CoE, and even Corpenicus/Gallileo/Keplers Heliocentricity

Might I suggest you be economical with your use of the word "believe" as used in your post. In all reality, no one knows if he believed it or not, and to be honest, what the Pharoahs (and their equivalents today) knew, and what they needed to be believed were not always necessarily the same thing.

I'm going to defer to Atum's highest priest. I am certain he has more to contribute. Meanwhile, below is an extract from The Great Hymn to the Aten.

How manifold it is, what thou hast made!
They are hidden from the face (of man).
O sole god, like whom there is no other!
Thou didst create the world according to thy desire,
Whilst thou wert alone: All men, cattle, and wild beasts,
Whatever is on earth, going upon (its) feet,
And what is on high, flying with its wings.
The countries of Syria and Nubia, the land of Egypt,
Thou settest every man in his place,
Thou suppliest their necessities:
Everyone has his food, and his time of life is reckoned.
Their tongues are separate in speech,
And their natures as well;
Their skins are distinguished,
As thou distinguishest the foreign peoples.
Thou makest a Nile in the underworld,
Thou bringest forth as thou desirest
To maintain the people (of Egypt)
According as thou madest them for thyself,
The lord of all of them, wearying (himself) with them,
The lord of every land, rising for them,
The Aton of the day, great of majesty.

OkCornel:
budaatum , ifenes

THE CURIOUS CASE OF AKHENATEN

I trust you are doing well...
I did some research on Pharoah Akhenaten...
I am somewhat puzzled on how he encountered "Aten"...
Akhenaten brought about some reforms in a polytheistic Egypt. Akhenaten stated he believed in a God above all gods...
He was hated by the priests of these polytheistic gods such that his name was struck out of all the records after his death...

I am still at a loss on how he believed that there is ONLY ONE GOD...even in the midst of prevalent polytheism in ancient Egypt...
This man was neither a Jew or a Christian...

Christianity Etc › Re: Stephen Hawking To Spend Eternity In Church by budaatum(op): 4:06am On Mar 21, 2018

Full list of people he would be spending eternity with.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Stephen Hawking To Spend Eternity In Church by budaatum(op): 3:53am On Mar 21, 2018

Stephen Hawking to Be Interred in Westminster Abbey Near Newton, Darwin

Stephen Hawking will spend eternity in the company of some other tremendously influential English scientists.

The cosmologist and science communicator, who died March 14 at age 76, will have his ashes interred in Westminster Abbey later this year, officials with the famous London church announced today (March 20).

"It is entirely fitting that the remains of Professor Stephen Hawking are to be buried in the Abbey, near those of distinguished fellow scientists. Sir Isaac Newton was buried in the Abbey in 1727. Charles Darwin was buried beside Isaac Newton in 1882," the Dean of Westminster, the Very Reverend John Hall, said in a statement.

"Other famous scientists are buried or memorialized nearby, the most recent burials being those of atomic physicists Ernest Rutherford in 1937 and Joseph John Thomson in 1940," Hall added. "We believe it to be vital that science and religion work together to seek to answer the great questions of the mystery of life and of the universe."

Abbey officials did not specify the date of interment. Hawking's family will hold a private funeral service for him on March 31 at Great St Mary's, the church for the University of Cambridge, the BBC reported. Hawking did his graduate work at Cambridge and was based at the university for decades thereafter.

Space.com

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 9:13pm On Mar 20, 2018

Then you ask for them to be treated separately, despite starting the thread specifically asking for them to be treated collectively.

I'm certain you make sense, unfortunately, only to yourself it seems.

butterflylion:
It's either that Or you do not understand crispy clean queens English.

Despite my using the word "mention and what it meant you still jumped to LIST which is talking about detail.

I guess your understanding of grammar is off.

I don't like it when your brain is switched off.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 9:08pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
I didn't say he listed. You keep claiming what is never said. WHY?

he said THE 10,000 which means they are EXACTLY 10,000. If that isn't specific then you need to check your grammar.

He mentioned the phrase.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 8:18pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
He mentioned the phrase THE 10,000 fairytale magical creatures. Did I throw you off with the word "mention"?

Not really, you just wrote bad ambiguous English.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 8:13pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
This thread has long flown over your bird coop. So you have always missed my point despite the pointers I have always given.

Nice try but you said nothing.

Guess you'd never ever get it. It was worth a try.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 8:11pm On Mar 20, 2018

Gggg102:
when the believers share their experiences we are to take their words for it according to you but when budaatum shares his', it is just his opinion.

Abi now. He make the rules!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 8:10pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
I didn't say he listed. You keep claiming what is never said. WHY?

he said THE 10,000 which means they are EXACTLY 10,000. If that isn't specific then you need to check your grammar.

This is what you said:

butterflylion:
Budaatum do not tell me tomorrow that an atheist did not SPECIFICALLY mention 10000 magical fairytale creatures.

Anyone reading that statement would be led to expect a list of "10000 magical fairytale creatures".

Perhaps you should learn to be specific!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 8:03pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
Too abridged and your opinion based on a generalisation.

Lol!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 8:03pm On Mar 20, 2018

I e-slap you!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 8:02pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
I didn't say he listed. You keep claiming what is never said. WHY?

he said THE 10,000 which means they are EXACTLY 10,000. If that isn't specific then you need to check your grammar.

I said one billion. I guess you would henceforth claim buda believes there are a billion gods.

I don't like when you switch off your brain!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 7:59pm On Mar 20, 2018

Gggg102:
but I was dishonest when I tried to do the same.

Now you are beginning to understand the op. The rules you must obey do not need to be obeyed by him!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 7:56pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
I know you saw the word THE before 10,000 . If that isn't specific then call me a reindeer.

Reindeer!

He did not list 10000 anything!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 7:55pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
You are actually keeping me busy here as you are running rings around yourself.

What do you understand by the word ABRIDGED?

Abridged Version

"All gods are figments of the imagination!"

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 7:49pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
Budaatum do not tell me tomorrow that an atheist did not SPECIFICALLY mention 10000 magical fairytale creatures.

And stop lying. He did not "SPECIFICALLY mention 10000 magical" anythings!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 7:48pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
This is an assumption and a sweeping comment.

Budaatum do not tell me tomorrow that an atheist did not SPECIFICALLY mention 10000 magical fairytale creatures.

How did you SPECIFICALLY go through the 5000 or is your atheism based on a generalisation and not empirically derived?

I just said there is a billion, so there!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 7:47pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
I didn't ask that they be treated one by one. I said you should show me an abridged version of how you went through all of them to arrive at the no god position.

How I went through them one by one, right? And thereby taking me away from talking about a monotheistic God, as initially requested? But then not just grouping them all together as they are all subject to my "figment of the imagination" statement?

Well, I guess I can post "gods are figments of the imagination" 4999 times with the specific god's name inserted, but I actually think there's at least a billion versions of gods. And you are wasting my time!

Funny though!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 7:42pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
Wrong!

Remember I also said this to earlier too

This contradicts atheism as depicted by you above.

How then can we both be atheists? .

Of course it's wrong, and contradicts what I said earliar. It's a sarcastic statement made to make a point. It is however similar to you claiming atheists are only atheistic towards Yahweh and Allah but accept the existence of other gods!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 7:31pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
I simply posted a portion of the 4999/ 5000 gods they always throw around.

Then you asked them to be treated one by one, which flies in the face of the proposal in the op.

But you wouldn't see that since it does not suit your agenda!

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 7:28pm On Mar 20, 2018

OkCornel:
Just like how terrorists also think they are "pleasing God" by waging a Jihad and killing people everywhere...

And also just as how atheists are killing people for the sake of propagating their beliefs.

In summary...

1) An idiot remains an idiot whether or he chooses to believe in a god or not...
2) Any excuse will serve a tyrant...even God (or lack of belief in God) can be used as an excuse...

Yes indeed. People create figments of the imaginations to justify their acts.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 7:18pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
In existence or outside existence?

Remember I said this earlier

"Outside existence"!¿ What non-meaning expression is that?

You continuously miss the point in thread after thread in which this same issue is discussed. I even placed a pointer to this fact in one of my posts, but as usual, it flies right over your head. So this time, please pay attention!

As far as I am concerned, all gods are figments of the imagination, made up in the heads of those who create them.

Now, for the trick part, what is god(s)? Any idea associated with the ~~creation of~~ how the universe came into being, including that which claims "all gods (and bangs regardless of their size) are figments of the imagination made up in the head of those who create them". No one knows, but some ~~gods~~, ~~ideas~~ figments of the imaginations are more plausible than others, unfortunately, however, figments they still are made up in the head.

For emphasis, all gods (in all forms) are figments of the imagination made up in the head of those who create them. No figment is really more valid than any others. You have yours, and I have mine. They oppose one another's, but hey, tough! Unless we want to start blowing each other up, after all, after I kill you, your figment no longer exists, and my figment becomes the monofigment I Am that I Am!

I know you don't get it yet, so listen carefully, and think about it. Even the idea of gods that buda has is created in the head of buda, a figment of buda's imagination created there by buda (even if buda claims it is based on a study of the evidence! After all, so too is yours, or isn't the figment of your imagination based on your study of the evidence?)! They are ideas and concepts that have no actual existence outside one's head (even though we like to believe they have, and tend to base our entire existence on this sole fact).

This is the reason why gods are subject to 'belief'. There is no thing that one knows actual exists that one would use such language to describe. You would either know, or not know! So, asking someone to provide evidence for beliefs they have made up in their head is rather silly.

However, when someone claims, "Look there is the figment of my imagination that I believe exists", one should expect one to be pirate flagged, and asked, "where?" (or what, or how, depending on the evidence), if one looks where is pointed to and sees absolutely nothing.

What you do however, is then ask those who look where you point to, to prove that what you point to is not there! And now you want to point in 4999 directions, say "see, gods", and then have it argued with you that the invisible things you are pointing to are not there! Talk about seeking relevance 'outside existence', a pointless venture if nothing else.

Trust me, if you didn't fit between a chess game, and therefore serve to help keep my wits about me, I'd be busy elsewhere!

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 6:29pm On Mar 20, 2018

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Stephen F Roberts

butterflylion:
https://www.rationalresponders.com/a_big_list_of_gods_but_nowhere_near_all_of_them

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 6:24pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
Existence is all I seek. By the process of elimination, how did you systematically remove the pantheon of gods to the point of declaring there is no god.

Since there is no god, I obviously did not find any in existence.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 6:22pm On Mar 20, 2018

[quote author=butterflylion post=66006175][/quote]Just goes to show, atheists mean all gods don't exist, whatever other names you wanna call them.

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 6:14pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
I do not think you read what I posted with an honest mind.

What they are doing is simply garbage in garbage out without research, experience, NOTHING!

There is no fallacy in monotheism even if the gods are 1billion. It could be viewed as 1billion representatives of God or 1billion gods working together to make GOD.

Basically a polytheistic monotheistic god. Yep, that makes a lot of sense. (Though, I am very certain you don't mean a Pantheon of gods.)

Which GOD exactly do all Gods combine to make? Are the Gods themselves made up of many gods?

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 6:08pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
Because I am not giving you what you need to troll with

Says the man who trolls his own thread shocked

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 6:03pm On Mar 20, 2018

butterflylion:
Stop trying to shift the focus of this thread by derailing.

This thread has no focus!

2 Likes

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 6:01pm On Mar 20, 2018

Trust you to be literal when it suits you. They are simply pointing out the fallacy of monotheism itself by showing you that there are many monotheist gods, and not specifically 5000.

butterflylion:
You do not need to lie when making a post. Are you blind when people say God exists and the atheists quickly ask "which of the 4999 gods"?

Will you deny this?

This is one from such an atheist as I declared in a conversation with vaxx

Here is another

And another

And another

And another

And another

And another

And another

And another

And another

And another

AND SO SO SO MANY MANY MORE. SO WHO IS BEING SILLY NOW?

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 5:38pm On Mar 20, 2018

OkCornel:
Good point...

That means they attributed phenomena beyond their understanding or knowledge to the gods...

Yes, including killing someone and claiming he is my only begotten son, and raping and plundering and killing people and stealing their land then fabricating godly justification for it!

Christianity Etc › Re: Atheists Let's Discuss God. by budaatum: 5:34pm On Mar 20, 2018

Ps. Now that we are finally being specific,

Yahweh, the god of I so much love you that I will kill my only begotten son for you, and the god of drown the bastards for not doing my will, and rape and plunder and kill those people and steal their land because I am promising it to you!

All creations of human beings!

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