₦airaland Forum

Show where it clearly states in the DSM-IV that atheism is a mental illness please.

I Pirate Flag!

Butterflyleo:
I am sure you saw where it clearly states



And also where it states



The websites simply reported the news from an authority which is the DSM-IV.

Go and argue with the Psychiatrists who deemed it fit to confirm it as a mental illness.

You should also go on reddit and find out why the atheist there are very angry at this.

Maybe you can lend your voice to theirs and argue with the psychiatrists

cc sciencewatch, sonofthunder, felixomor, emmanystone, budaatum finally freethinking has been declared officially and medically as a mental disorder.

Butterflyleo:
I disengaged downloads on my device. But you can download on yours

Butterflyleo:
Calling me a liar does not change that it is on the DSM-IV psychiatrist manual.

So, why don't you just point to the bit in DSM-IV where it says atheism is a mental illness instead of the anecdotal evidence you have posted?

dalaman:
So questioning authority, negativity, defiance, argumentativeness, and being easily annoyed is now a mental illness abi?

Or, is atheism, for that matter?

Butterflyleo:
You forget that atheism has been diagnosed as a mental disease in the world today.

Forgot? Didn't know, more like. By whom, please?

Emmanystone:
Sir, meaning can well be purpose. As a matter of fact, another word for purpose can be meaning. Meaning and purpose can be used interchangeably.
These words are the synonyms of Purpose, intention, import, meaning, reason, significance, content, and even sense. So, YES, Meaning and purpose are the same.

Guess I was stuck in a literal frame hoping for non-ambiguity. In religious discussions it helps to be specific. Thanks for the educating.

Emmanystone:
Why then are you living? Why haven't you killed yourself and get it done with? Why do you eat when you are hungry? Why do you sleep when you get overworked and fatigued? Why do you medicate yourself when your body breaks down?

I live because I was born, basically. The fundamental purpose of my being alive is to live.
That's not to say I have no purpose for living. I have chosen to do something with my life time like most afteral.

Emmanystone:
Why do you strive to become someone in life? You go to school, try to come out wirh good grades to get a better job. You want to start a business and achieve a level of comfort. You marry and want children, when you don't have, you see the doctors, you do fertility this and that. Why?

To live.

Emmanystone:
But, i thought you said there was no purpose? What then are they choosing from?

Perhaps you should have read the entire lot before jumping to conclusions?

Emmanystone:
Guy, i think you just tied yourself in robes with this your assertion. You codedly just said, to those who have a purpose, they try to make the world leas bad, but those who feel there's no purpose to life, seek to desrroy it because they believe they are here to eat, sleep and just die.

Guy, I see you have not yet learned to deal with my paradox and contradictions. Existence is full of them.

Emmanystone:
If humans are here primarily to fertilize the soil with manure, why then don't we allow our sick children die and contribute manure for us? Why medicate them?

To live, basically. To extend ours and our progeny's life. And in that living a purpose, by which to live, arises. Living is the purpose, all we do - caring for China, teaching our kids atheism, lab rats, fertility, gods, evolution etc - are all about living, to ensure we do not die.

You should see the extent trees go to to not die. And they produce fruit and seed to increase their numbers.

A purpose above that? Eternal life, perhaps. It would explain why some religions convince themselves its a possibility. Seems borne of an innate fear of death, in my opinion.

The facts though are thus:
"From earth thou came. To earth shall thou return."

Perspectives:
Sometimes, the meaning and purpose of something cannot be separated. So please, go ahead

"Meaning" and "purpose" hardly ever mean the same thing. Try it with "combustion engine", see what you come up with.

That said, "Purpose of life"? None really. Most living things, humans specifically, just occupy space and consume resources to remain alive. In effect, one could say the sole purpose of life is to live. If humans weren't in existence, the planet would most likely go on much better than with them in it. Even birds and goats probably serve a better purpose, birds by spreading seeds and goats by mowing the grass. Trees however help maintain a balance between CO2 and Oxygen.

There is one important difference between human beings and trees and birds. Birds and trees don't choose a purpose while human beings can. Some humans choose to make the world less bad than if they did nothing, whilst some choose to make the world much worse than it would have been if they actually ate, slept and eventually just died.

Regardless, all living things contribute towards the making of manure, in the end, whether they choose it as a purpose or not. Whether that manure makes up for what they consume is debatable though.

The question, "What Is The Simplest Meaning Of Life?" is flawed, in my opinion, or it does not mean what is implied.

Wiki gives the following definition for life

Life is a characteristic that distinguishes physical entities that do have biological processes, such as signaling and self-sustaining processes, from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased, or because they never had such functions and are classified as inanimate. Various forms of life exist, such as plants, animals, fungi, protists, archaea, and bacteria.

It is further stated that:

It is a challenge for scientists and philosophers to define life. This is partially because life is a process, not a substance. Any definition must be general enough to both encompass all known life and any unknown life that may be different from life on Earth.

From the above, one can see the difficulty. It does not help also that many might understand the question implied is actually "What is the purpose of living?" but since that is not what op asked, let me not deviate (unless op wants to say that is what is meant).

vaxx:
my friend budaatum will disagree with you.

Was about to too. Though, I speak not for all people called atheist. Still here goes:

I do not believe that gods do not exist. I know that gods do not exist outside of the minds of those in whom they do exist as figments of the imagination.

John 8

“The truth will set you free."‎‎‎

I went to see Mary Magdalene during the week. Main point of the film was the attitude to women in those times, and the relevance of Mary to Jesus. She is referred to as one of his disciples.

Chapter 8 is one of those chapters we atheists would never get our heads around (we'd most likely have the same issue with the entire GoJ, really). When people make the claims that Christ is making here it can't help but sound like a teapot between Earth and Mars kind of claim, and you'd by now know we react no different to how the Pharisees reacted, with incredulity.

“You are making those claims about yourself! Such testimony is not valid.”

“You Samaritan devil! Didn’t we say all along that you were possessed by a demon?”

I must confess that that is exactly the reaction I have to the text until I switch on my god gene, the gene that makes things divine make some sense. It does involve some acrobatics however, and for it to make total sense, one does need the "belief gene", which happens to be the gene that the atheist is completely devoid of.

The core point is that Jesus is not pleased with the religious attitude of the day. It seems that there was more concern for the observation of the religious dictats and no regard for the person behind the religion. More like me condemning a person because they think differently to me and completely disregarding the fact that there's a human being behind their thoughts. Very easy to do I guess. How many times has one read condemnation of another on here? Par for the course, it would seem. And no, you are no better than the rest of us! This is one sin all are guilty of! Though we think it ok to stone others! And despite a sticky thread begging you please!

The film, Mary Magdalene, is an Easter film and is well worth seeing, though it did give me the winks (probably more due to the sleepless night before).

Have a good week as we prepare two pieces of wood.

wirinet:
I now understand why my good friend Billyonaire is winding down his time on nairaland, debates have becomes childish, repetitive and unproductive.

I am also extremely tired of the merry go round, no matter how much you try to educate the fundamentalist Christian that the only thing binding atheist together is a lack of belief of God or gods, it looks like you are talking to a prerecorded voice message, they keep repeating their nonsense of atheist being a platform to offer anything like hope, motivation, etc.

It seems their grouse is with atheists in general and not any other theist. it is as if converting to any theist like Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or even okija worshiper would douse their hatred of others holding different beliefs, and show love instead.

I am also considering leaving like billyonaire, so Christians can have free reign on this section. I think I have outlive my usefulness.

The way a devil would work would be to get you involved in what concerns it so that you would not concentrate on what concerns you. It would eat up your time with things it claims to believe exists but which it does not quite know exists itself because the fact that you might not believe what it believes puts doubt in its belief in it's own existence. It would take you on a merry-go-round to absolutely nowhere because that's where it is stuck, and if it is not consuming your time and effort it becomes irrelevant. This is the reason some believe their gods created them, to serve and worship them! And in reward, it makes them think it blesses them. But this is achieved by making them think those who do not bow to their gods are not blessed, and this, despite vast amounts of evidence which they themselves, see before them. And to live in hope, they create an imaginary afterdeath of blissful existence that only they would get to go to, while they completely ignore reality.

The devil is just another god that only exists in their mind, so you might understand how simple it is to make it disappear as if in a puff of smoke. You might from that understand how they must so tenaciously hold on to the figment of their imaginations. The thought that you could dare to be free scares them! The idea that you would not tremble in fear at the mention of their gods makes them tremble in fear at your existence! "We shall not have unenslaved people like you around, least you unenslave others!" "O, shall we therefore destroy you least others become as you", and their gods and they themselves lose relevance! Who will work in their gardens then? On whom would they prey if eyes open?

O what lives of enslavement they live.

Atheism is not some religion. And we do not congregate like those who convince themselves that godpots exist between the Earth and Mars which they must bow to and worship in fear. One is an atheist because the chains of religious enslavement have been broken. Yet, we don't go about slapping ourselves on the back to reinforce our sense of freedom. Nor do we go about evangelising as they do either. For we don't need them to abandon the gods they so strongly hold on to. If their gods exist, surely we too would become aware of it. And if gods don't exist, surely, people are able to realise that for themselves.

Rest assured wirinet, we watch. Its just that many have learnt not to bring the devils into existence by allowing it to always occupy the mind with its nonsensical, ignorant, illogical, irrational, merrygoroundism which they claim is 'love' but which is borne out of hatred of the worst kind with devilish intent.

The proper response for devils is, "Get thee behind me Satan!" It means, "Disappear, Satan!" Which, even when they disguise themselves as the gods, is what they truly are, completely irrelevant, in the long run, and eventually, dead!

Emmanystone:
Good mirning good sir.

Good afternoon sir.

Emmanystone:
Thanks for your kind words. And i will address this when i power my ba3.

That's the Spirit!

Billyonaire:
At this point I have no form of guidance. I do not know anyone who has gone through this and I definitely can't trust any ET, so I must carry my cross.

I am sure I will be fine.

You are not alone! The journey however is lonely.
Read Siddhartha!

Billyonaire:
Please I need a simple answer. WILL THIS KILL ME ? WHAT IS POSSIBLE AT THIS STAGE, SIR ?

Don't we all want simple answers. And call me not Sir, please. Or one might think I am more than I am!

Simple answers are for simple people. To them, the gospel is preached, and Jesus is Lord, Amen. And yes, one must die to be reborn.

Live, to the fullest, is what I advise. Simple people is not for you. You already have all that is required.

By the way, I hope you have been reading all that you have written on NL. It's easy to think the words one writes are meant for others when in truth they are meant for oneself first and foremost.

Billyonaire:
Yeah, I know I am on the right path, but what happens from here onward ? I am just a researcher, who knows that I am on the right path. How do I shut it down for now.

Check my profile and my posts. You will find that I too was away for a period. And this is not the first, second or even the third forum I've engaged on.

It never shuts down. The Dhamma Wheel has been set in motion, and it forever turns. We, are but bits of the spokes of that wheel and no part of it is unmoving. One does not one path nor many thread. Whichever path one is on is one's path.

The GoT put it succinctly when it was written,

"Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

Laugh at thyself meanwhile,
for we turn with the wheel.
Be hopeful good sir and joyful in spirit.

Whatever has the nature of arising,
has the nature of ceasing.

“Koṇḍañña surely knows,
Koṇḍañña surely knows.”

Your journey is not unusual. All enlightening people go through it and at the end, or close to it rather, "crucify him! crucify him!" is what you'll hear. One must forgive however. Some know not what they do. Besides, forgiving is what gives the final key. That's when you'll understand what it means to 'love'.

You must have read Hermann Hess' Siddhartha. Please read it again. You are on your right path.

And remember, there is no 'here'. Only lots of 'theres'

Billyonaire:
Thanks buddy, I love you all as far as I know. But then, what is here for me ? I have been insulted and mocked on account of these discordant messages. There is no way I can continue to spend time trying to tell people to keep an open mind. I have been deceived severally by even the Gods. So many Entities wanted me on their sides telling me different stories. I do not know anyone who will not fall for their tricks, it is a tough call. How I succeeded in getting the locate the Infinite Source amazes me till this very day. I have gone to Mountain of Fire for a week of deliverance on this, and it happened that when I went there, I realized the Jezebel Spirit ran the Church and I was so confused cos I was so sincere to know if the Infinite Source cant show me a sign. There is no bias in me about anything and I owned nearly all Holy books. I have dined with muslims, Hindus, Taoists, Jehovah Witness for 2 yrs done everything, I went to Ekankar, Amorc and I kept searching for Truth without bias.

I ended up with Scientific researchers, New Age etc. Became Vegan/Vegetarian, tile my home with marble to walk on bare floor, sun gazed, and even multi-million Reverse Osmosis water treatment to get purest water just to ensure that I am not tracked by archons.

I left no expense and time on this search, and I can not name all I have done in sincerity of purpose. I have given arms, done charity, promoted a course, supported indigenous people and even get psychic attacks and ...my oh my....

But when I share the data I am mocked and I kept questioning my sanity almost always, cos people think I smoke weed. Yes I smoked weed recently while researching on it and it was nice and I stopped after a day or two cos I am naturally high due to my level of consciousness so that can not work for me as I am already 'high' on Cosmic consciousness.

Now, I have to move on. I wrote those few examples to show my efforts at sincerity. But I must move away from this and enjoy materialism. Even though I am very wealthy, I mingle with everyone and do not even care about my assets cos I believed I needed to stay connected to humanity. But now is the time for me to live my life and I will spare no expense is getting myself happiness of this world.

So I am not sorry to move on, I need me now.

butterflylion:
Or do you not also think that I know that many are reading yours and also disassociating themselves from you? Atheist subjectivity in full bloom

I doubt I engaged with you much as you probably appeared whilst I was away, but I've gone through some of your posts and can say, you will be missed.

The time till your departure is short, so might I ask that those who did engage with you post links to some of the interesting posts of yours from the past. I have posted one below. Your away will be as fruitful as your mind can imagine, and your return will be immensely fruitful to us!

GOD - The Scientific Perspective

Fare thee well.

superhumanist:
WTF?

budaatum, how do you manage this guy's nonsense?

I look way beyond him really knowing there are a lot of intelligent people silently seeing how deep the pit he digs himself into gets. Just when you think he might have hit the bottom, out comes his shovel and the deeper he digs.

Do you not realise that many people read what he writes and disassociate themselves from him? If you were his god, would you not hide your face in shame and say "dude, please stop worshipping me"? In fact, isn't it obvious his previous god must have said that already? He used to be a Christian but now he's some sort of whatever he calls his faith!

Only a very tiny few subscribe to his sophistry. Still, he serves a purpose. I just picked up Bertrand Russell's, On Education from a secondhand bookshop because of him and I'm sitting in Costa drinking a latte while I further enlighten myself. Trust me, Butter is a walking advert screaming "Please become an atheist", least that's what discerning people hear from reading him.

My hope is that one day he might read what he has written and see how unintelligent he sounds, though I must confess that a teapot will exist between the Earth and Mars before that happens as he has a profound inability to hear himself and reflect.

butterflylion:
The funny thing here is that you are already worshipping a certain teapot known to only you and nobody needed to tell you to worship it before you even began doing it

You just do not realise it yet because you haven't sat down to think about it.

Enjoy!

It's "known only to" me but I "do not realise it" though I "worship it" but "don't think about it"?


I need to find a name for that! How about butterflylionism? (Though, I reckon that should be what I should call your entire unique mode of reasoning!)

butterflylion:
Not when the "teapot" carries the import and holds the attributes I enumerated! For a lot such experiences with their "teapot" is personal to them. You are free to bow down and worship Bertrand Russells teapot since you wish to use his analogy to argue a reality (on my part).

Enjoy.

Regardless, it matters not till they tell me to worship it too.

And if someone said the same about their teapot, I doubt I'd want to argue much except when they tell me to bow down and worship it, at which point, Pirate Flag!

butterflylion:
Unfortunately all the Christians say about God when compared to this analogical teapot would render the teapot redundant.

We say God speaks to us
We say God hears us
We say God blesses us
We say God heals us
We say God causes us to receive favour
We say God protects us
We say God causes us to prosper in spirit and in reality when we know the truth
We say God reveals himself to us through his word
And so on

I guess a teapot (which by name means it is used to serve tea) can only be used for what it is called.....to serve tea in whatever variants. But for those who wish to follow a different path, they could hide their coins and cash in same teapot but a teapot is still a teapot.

Gracias

In 1952, in an article titled, What is God? Russell wrote:

Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

In 1958, Russell elaborated on the analogy:

I ought to call myself an agnostic; but, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist. I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely.


The full article can be downloaded as a pdf. It's only 11 pages, and Russell is a fine writer worth the read.

butterflylion:
Have you ever read about the teapot analogy by Russell?

He actually wrote about it? That's amazing!

butterflylion:
God is not an analogy same way you are not an analogy but we both know that the teapot by Bertrand Russell was an analogy

I found a book about sophistry in the library yesterday. Made me think of you.

So, someone can say something that doesn't exist does exist? Or they can sarcastically be stating an analogy and so don't have to be speaking from a position of knowledge?

Is God an analogy perhaps? An analogy for what, exactly?

butterflylion:
Russell's teapot is an analogy, formulated by the philosopher Bertrand Russell (1872–1970), to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others.

You and the person who liked your comment obviously did not think it to be an analogy and not a reality.

This was why I said this to you earlier

.

Bertrand only made an analogy and did not speak about what he KNEW but was being somewhat sarcastic.

Even at that the very purpose of Bertrands analogy has been disproved because WE CAN PROVE A NEGATIVE or DISPROVE it as it were. But somehow atheists never believe that they can actually show proof for a negative.
So they always attempt shifting the burden of proof to others despite also making claims of their own. Such grandiose proportions of dishonesty.

paxonel:

That's not possible in Nigeria
Even the government that is doing that will begin to fight itself to destruction.

Impossible for you to just imagine too?

Ok!

butterflylion:
You cannot say something does not exist unless someone first declares that it exists and for anyone to say it exists they must be first speaking from a position of knowledge.

A certain Bertrand Russel once said that a teapot orbits the Sun somewhere in space between the Earth and Mars. I guess if he hadn't said so, I wouldn't be able to say, "Bollocks Mr Russell! There's no teapot anywhere in space between the Earth and Mars"!

You sure that's tea you been drinking?

Imagine a bill is put forward in both houses and signed by the President banning Christianity and Islam such that:

All worship buildings are to be shut with immediate effect.

Anyone caught congregating in the name of Allah, Mohammed, God, Jesus, Mary, Gabriel, Michael or any thing so related would be fined 100000 Naira for the first offence, 200000 Naira and no less than 6 months imprisonment for the second offence, a million Naira and 2 years imprisonment for third offences which will be doubled for subsequent flouting of this ban.

Anyone adorning religious symbols related to Christianity and Islam, including but not limited to, the Bible, The Quran, a cross, text from either book, a hijab, etc will be deemed to have flouted the law and would be treated as though they were congregating.

Any building used for such congregating will be confiscated and its owner fined no less than a million Naira.

Get the gist?

What do you think reactions would be?

How would you react?

Onyinye15:
As I celebrate my birthday today, let the word
Of God continue to spread and let souls be won in Jesus name Amen


The gospel must be preached

Happy birthday

What woke you up this morning? Did something apart from you decide to get you up when you did? You might think not, that that something made you go to bed in the first place intending you to wake up when you did. So, which of your legs touched the ground first? And all the other choices you have made today, did that thing determine that too? Those choices are afterall what determined where you are right now, your destiny, at least to this minute.

Just think, gone are the days when it was god's will for some people to be captured, chained, shipped and enslaved to work for some master in a foreign land. It was for this purpose that god made them black, so they can be identified as beasts and worked as such by those who god made their master and designated with white skin. The destiny of black people was to be the slave, or at least, so went the thinking! Would you accept that if you had a say in the matter?

It's very easy for humans to give credit for their choices to the supernatural. Christianity specifically says "for Christ's sake", but I think it robs the individual of self worth. You will achieve things in life. You, will achieve those things, but you might be the sort that claims God done it. And that's okay I guess. Then your child will achieve something in life, but you will give the credit and praise to God, and not your child! But when another person is a bum on the street begging from you, you would hardly claim God put that person there, and God put you there to help them! Oh no, its the bums fault for begging at the gate but God's fault for the rich man in his mansion.

Not many steal from themselves the credit for their achievements and give it all to gods. You might think you do, and some actually really do. But all things considered, you know how much work you had to do to achieve what you achieved. You know how much effort was expended. So I advise you to give yourself some credit and pat yourself on the back, or at least give some credit to others. For even if it were true that the gods worked through you, you would have had to at least done some work to ensure the gods considered you worthy of being worked through in the first place!

"He was rejected by the some of the Priests", is how atheist me would put it, "the mouthpieces of the some of the gods". (This is an instance where an atheistic or theistic outlook makes a difference in how one sees things.) It would be the equivalent to Pastors rejecting a candidate for Nigerian presidency nominated by Imams. They would say God does not approve. Of course if that person becomes president, it is Allah who would have said "Yea".

Also, consider his mother's influence and compare it to a certain Mary, who was well steeped in things divine that her baby leaped for joy in her womb and her relative, Elizabeth, gave birth to a John. My point is that women, who would in those days, have had to hide behind the throne so to speak, would exercise their influence in divine ways. It is the reason we cursed her so severely in the Beginning. They have a nature of accumulating divine knowledge - since they need do no work and have much time to learn, and of indoctrinating their sons in fashions that make them uncontrollable by the mainstream. Akhenaten's mother probably worshipped Aten.

OkCornel:
Why I am inclined to think that Akhenaten believed in Aten was due to the fact that he was rejected by the gods at the point he was dedicated to them as a child...

In ancient egypt, it was the custom to dedicate the children (both male and female) of the Pharoah to the gods... Ahmenotep (IV or V) was rejected by the gods..but still somehow ended up as the Pharoah due to his mother's influence...

He built a new city and dedicated it to Aten... He also changed his name from Ahmenotep to Akhenaton...

What I really find baffling is how he got personal revelation he got to rise above polytheistic beliefs and usurp a lot of things in Egypt in his lifetime...due to his belief in that there is only one true God...