₦airaland Forum

Olayoo:
Yah. Maybe I should rephrase it. I don't mean a literal god though. I mean to say it metaphorically. I'm more of an "agnostic pantheist"

The problem many have is their desire for an image of God. Unfortunately, many do not understand that claiming God is this or that, is image creation. Kind of makes Christians seem dumb when they respond to such requests when they should have learned from Christ to say, "It is written, 'Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth'. After all, you can't exactly produce a spirit as evidence.

If one does not create an image of God one would keep asking and knocking and seeking with all of one's senses until one finds God in God's very own Kingdom where God is written to dwell.

Olayoo:
Should have guessed from your name. Buddhism. Well cool. It doesn't force any one . I'm a fan of zen Buddhism and their minimalist philosophy. But one thing I don't buy is the concept of reincarnation.

Yes, you should have guessed, though you'd need to understand what Buddha meant when he said one must learn the religion of one's society too.

Reincarnation is literally the same thing as being born again. Simpletons think you must literally die first. If only they understood Paul's Road to Damascus experience, we'd all insist on becoming as children in order to reincarnate into new mindsets (as opposed to bodies, as many think).

Crystyano:
They always question the understanding of others in vain pride like a certain budaatum
Calling them trolls for not doing what they think is right.

Thank you for showing buda questions in order to understand.

The only troll I know is HellVictorinho. You'd see him trolling here soon. And if you read his posts you'd see how 'right' he is and the unfortunate consequences of his rightness.

Olayoo:
My definition of God is just following the cosmological argument, "for everything there is a cause, and for every cause a cause in turn ad infinitum" that will lead us to the first cause. That first cause is God.

We call this the God of the Gap theory. There's lots of threads where it is discussed and shown to be the attitude of the lazy who refuse to investigate further.

Such people tend to believe the earth, if not the universe, was created in 6 days starting in April 4004BC despite much evidence that indicates the earth is much much older. What's sad is their neglect of the preceding years which would explain why it is written that "out of Egypt I called my Son". If only such people would not feed on only bread, they would not be so malnourished.

Olayoo:
U are confusing me. I don't even know what u stand for. I'm trying to explain to Mr workch why a God can exist. U are a christian and u are tackling me...or let me ask . are u a christian.

No, Olayoo, buda is not a Christian! buda is simply a book reader who reads to understand as opposed to believe as Christians do.

If buda is put in the Garden of Eden and told "of all the fruits of the trees in the garden you may freely eat, but this particular tree of knowledge of good and evil you must not eat", buda will go eat it because buda will not believe you and buda loves knowledge.

Also, if buda is told to stay at the bottom of the mountain with Aaron, Ahibu and the 70 elders while Moses alone go before God, buda would say, "fuq off! Moses does not have two heads so I am coming up with him and you can turn me into a pillar of salt if you so want!"

basilico:
You can pull data from allover but India states reduced their covid infections using ivermectin.

I asked you how many people were given ivermectin in India so we can compare it to those who were vaccinated, but of course you refused to say because the facts disagree with you!

basilico:
Very sad. The big players seem to have declared that any drug that clears corona does not clear corona. That vaccination is the only way to flatten the curve .
Article here by a retired MD who explains why they go with the big players demand.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/09/why_do_doctors_go_along_with_covid_panic_porn_and_cdc_prescriptions.html

So let us suppose that you use ivermectin to treat a COVID patient as he arrives in the hospital. Ivermectin isn't on the Medicare/Medicaid approved list of medications for COVID. Your hospital pharmacy will call you up and give you grief.

So, let us assume you gave your patient ivermectin, and the patient recovered, would you not present your healed patient as evidence of the efficacy of your action when given grief, bas? And if they insist on reprimanding you, would you not go challenge them in court and in the public sphere, or even take your skills to say India where you claim such cures are appreciated?

I guess apparently not. Either because you have no cured patient to present, or because you sold your soul to dollars!

basilico:
This guy is black. A professor so we assume he has chewed more books than most of us.

So therefore you must believe what he said instead of using your own brain, bas?

I guess you might have been taught by professors who are always right and whom you dare not question and must believe. I, on the other hand, was taught by professors who believe in their own need to continue learning even from the mouth of those who would be their babies. In fact, not questioning them would significantly reduce the grade they give to you, because the entire purpose of them educating you is for you to develop your own mind.

Olayoo:
If I may ask, are also saying A God does not exist or a christian God does not exist.

God existing or not, is Irrelevant, to me, at least, is what I am saying. The devil believes God exists and then trembles in fear, we read, so of what value is believing if one does not do the will of said God? Would one not just be some foolish dumb lordist whom we are told would incur a huge dental bill?

Olayoo:
So far...I've learnt a lot from this discourse, and come with a conclusion that we can't know for certain if God exist. We can't prove he's existence and neither can we disprove it. Science will explain better to us the meaning and limits of our physical world and with technology we will alter it. God doesn't have to be a conscious being. He could be the sum total of the universe or multiverse, he could be a quark or a wave( he could have started the big bang) we won't know. But we we do know is that we can't look to superstitions to guide humanity. NEITHER can we ascertain for sure that that he/ she or whatever extra dimension he exist DOES NOT EXIST.

Thankfully, Jesus is written to have dealt with this. "Inasmuch as ye have done to those you see before you, God in heaven whom you see not is pleased".

If you understand that, you'd 'worship' (love, is the word Christ used) your fellow human being, if you know the meaning of 'worship' that is and don't just follow the believing multitude. Anyone who understands that would hesitate at insulting those they believe God breathed into mud and made.

Olayoo:
I asked what where u saying .

That's not how questions are asked olayoo!

You need to show what of what I've said that you understand, then ask an appropriate relevant question, or it shall be assumed that the conversation is way far above your level of intellect.

Please know that I will respond to relevant questions.

Workch:
I don’t teach, however I learnt some of these basics in my curiosity to find answers to the god hypothesis.

And your not teaching is why I have challenged you on this thread. You learnt, and you have assumed everyone has been priviledged to learn what you have learnt so you have come here to challenge them for not being as informed as you are.

It shows you do not value the work you've done and think everyone has done the same work you did, thereby basically undervaluing yourself, in my opinion. If you weren't undervaluing yourself, the words below that a wise man is written to have uttered would have significant meaning to you. But I guess you'd throw out the baby with the water you bathed it in, since your angst isn't quite against some imaginary God that no one has seen but against a physical book that anyone can pick up and read and either decide to brainlessly believe, or understand.

See below the same error, belief as opposed to understanding, being made by a science graduate.

Olayoo:
What are u even saying. Do u understand what u are saying

How can I not understand what I am saying, Olayoo.

Don't you think you should act responsibly and just admit you don't understand what I've said, then ask appropriate questions in order to understand what I am saying if you really want to know what I've said?

Workch:
ok thanks

You very welcome.

You mentioned string theory and relativity. Do they teach those in Nigerian schools yet? If they do, then I think you must become more forceful in your teaching those who refuse to learn, but if they don't, perhaps compassion for those who aren't taught it is what is required as we can not all be as blessed and priviledged as you are.

P.s The book below that I ordered arrived today.
Here's a link to a pdf download for those who love learning as opposed to believing.

Workch:
Another god lover with long epistles but no evidence.

God lover, is a new one. Hopefully, you know it means, lover of one's fellow human beings, because that is what the God books teach.

basilico:
But yahoo is reporting. It must be true.

Is that what you believe? Poor you.

kkins25:
If your BUBU administration doesn't invent another policy that would chase them away that is.lol

I didn't know the bubu administration belonged to buda. Thanks for informing me. I however doubt Chinese banks would arrive before bubu's term ends, and if they are eventually chased away, I'm sure China would inflict on us what those we previously chased away inflicted on us.

Those who refuse to learn from previous experience are bound to repeat the class.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Enterprises_Promotion_Decree

basilico:
Dont know what to make of this story.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/wuhan-scientists-planned-release-skin-145326380.html

I'd expect you to be suspicious about the story, at least half as much as you are about vaccines, but I would not hold my breathe.

They just might offer cheaper loans and the competition would be good for Nigerian banks.

basilico:
The vaccine pfizer has a secret 22% component that has not been disclosed.
Rumors are that the secret component is Ivermectin and HCL.

Rumours! That which q terms alternative facts.

Rumour are also that foetus were aborted to be used as components too. Make sure you do not take the covid vaccines, bas.

basilico:
Whistleblower claims China released COVID-19 during world military games in Wuhan in October 2019.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10014895/Ex-Chinese-Communist-Party-insider-Wei-Jingsheng-speaks-Wuhan-theory-relating-Covid-19.html

Oh, you are back? Don't think you can jump to a new topic and we'll all forget you are kraken q, bas!

Nothingserious:
Is the Big Bang science theory science or not? Does science not assume the sun will always rise and set everyday? Does science not believe and assume that the laws of gravity will always be there? Is macroevolution not science?

What exactly is your point here?

The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model explaining the existence of the observable universe from the earliest known periods through its subsequent large-scale evolution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang?wprov=sfla1

You'd think the important word in the above is theory, but it actually is "prevailing". The prevailing theory used to be ”God said" until 'Jesus the Logos' opened eyes.

As for "assume the sun will always rise and set everyday", I think it is human beings who assume that based on the evidence so far witnessed which kind of makes one assume the sun will never take a day off. When the sun takes a eay of scientist will jettison always rise and set everyday, or be ridiculed like flat earthers are.

Science does not believe, is my point. It has prevailing theories which it assumes might be correct or found wanting in the future when more knowledge is acquired. That after all is the lesson of history, that science is not some religion that must be believed when evidence suggests otherwise.

Nothingserious:
Don’t you think this is an absurd response to Lewontin’s quote?

I don’t think you scratched it.

You maybe right to say religion and science keep clashing. But the clash of religion and science is just superficial compared to the gap between science and atheism.

Again, I don’t think you understand what that quote meant.

Its not easy to discuss without defining terms. Take my definition of science as the use of the supposed God given senses. If you were not meant to use the senses why would you even have them? Also see how I have presented "in the beginning" as an early scientific theory.

Now for atheism. It used to mean those who did not believe what was believed in Athens, the Land of the Gods. By Christ's time, it meant those who did not believe in the God of the community they are in.

If I told you Jesus was crucified for not believing what was believed in his community, I will expect you to argue that Jesus was not an atheist while I would state that he was clearly atheistic to the beliefs of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.

Religion and science do not clash as much as you claim. What clashes is those who (religiously) believe, with those who are willing to scientifically use their senses to ask and knock and seek so they may actually learn and know. Its like a battle between, willing to remain ignorant naked and enslaved Adam, and use her senses to gain wisdom and her own freedom from slavery Eve. A nation built by Adams will differ to one built by Eves, you'd find.

Workch:
so what’s your argument all about?

That's the thing, Work, and why I have been nicely amused by your only tool is a hammer attitude.

I am not arguing, Workch. I am discussing with the hope of exchanging and sharing ideas and knowledge. Unfortunately, as I keep repeating to you with the hope you'd see, your hammer is to argue, which unfortunately blinds you to understanding. You may want to go back and read over our discussion. It is after all evident.

Workch:
Ok good then.

So who’s the god of buda?

Work! You jumped! First, you need to begin with What is God?

Searching for an answer to that question is a journey every serious atheist must go through instead of theistically accepting what they are religiously conditioned to believe. One can tell those who haven't gone on the journey because they'll say they "don't believe in the existence of God" without quite understanding their belief is as inconsequential as those who believe in the existence of God, as both think what they believe in their head is real.

After you have an answer to What is God, you and I can then discuss the God of buda. Meanwhile however, by buda's fruits would you know buda's God. Fruits, in case you are not aware, means, evidence.

P.s. I am assuming your name is a true indication of who and what you are. A worker, as opposed to a lazy believing fuq.

Nothingserious:
Materialism at its best!

“Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an[b] understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism.[/b] It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.”
[Billions and Billions of Demons - JANUARY 9, 1997 ISSUE]
Richard C. Lewontin

“There is an old saying, "If the only tool you have is a hammer, you will start treating all your problems like a nail.” This quote dates back to 1964 and Abraham Kaplan, whose first wording was actually, "Give a small boy a hammer and he will find that everything he encounters needs a pounding."

Once you view all existence through the prism of materialism, everything is reduced to what can be investigated by matter only.
We know that not all we know and believe in can be reduced to empirical analysis and yet we have come to belief in them by experience.

I ignored the specifics of your quote because of it's absurdity. The person who made it likely made use of numerous tools developed from scientific discoveries like rode in a car, sat in a chair, used a microphone, shaved with electricity, then says how science is struggling against the supernatural, when the truth is supernaturalists and scientists are perhaps struggling against each other. And indeed they are. In Nigeria, supernaturalists are winning, which is why we have lots of temples in which to worship the supernatural, and a lack of science temples (hostels , factories etc) in which to worship science, and we can all see the result. 56% of Nigerian youths get to worship the supernatural while begging for their daily bread! I guess many don't understand that when God is written to have said "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground", you are being told to use your senses (science) to make the ground more profitable for you.

Workch:
You made claim of a god,

No I did not make a claim of a god, workch.

Open your eyes so you may understand and not misspeak please, though I can forgive how you could have mistaken me for those making claims for gods.

Workch:
You still have not provided evidence for your god.

No amount of distraction can stop me from demanding for evidence sir

You are demanding evidence for my own God, Workch? Now, why would I want to provide evidence of my God for you? Do you think I intend to share my God with you and limit the time my God has for me because my God is spending time with you?

Please know that the God of buda is a very selfish God and only buda does it serve, and I do not wish you to know the God of buda when you can't even be bothered to know buda the owner of my God!

That said. If you really wish to know the God of buda, start by asking first, What is God, instead of assuming and believing what you already think you know.

See what you describe as Science, lol, big bang, micro evolutuon, etc. Were they replicated in a lab too?

Science, the use of your senses, is a tool to seek understanding. A theory is first presented then further information is sought. An example is the world was flat until subsequent observation found it was not flat. Unfortunately, human senses are rarely and slowly used, so knowledge acquisition is gradual.

There was a time when 'Scientists' came up with a theory that states that, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light."

Subsequent observation and theories have come up with alternative ideas like when God supposedly said "Let there be Light", there was a big bang then there was light. But you need to learn to separate hypothesis and theories from the observed facts. A scientist would tell you big bang is a theory, one of many.

You might want to start by observing how many science produced products you use today to plot how right human use of science profits you. Without it, humans can not possibly fulfil the command to "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth", and therefore be blessed, and go to Mars and Jupiter and Uranus too,

Just observe a country like Nigeria to see how a negative attitude towards science holds us back because we would rather believe than scientifically 'use our God given senses'. But as this thread shows, eyes are opening, thank the Gods.

Nothingserious:
You said Scientifc claims being testable and repeatable. Lol!
Has the Big Bang been observed and repeated?
Who tested, observed and repeated the Big Bang? Why does science BELIEVE by faith that it happened?

Did any scientist test, observe and repeated micro evolution of larger animals and humans?
Did science not BELIEVE by faith that it happened and it’s true?

Did science create the laws of nature? Did science know the origin of the laws of gravity? But it believes by FAITH that it has always been there and will always behave the way it behaves to make mathematical and physical laws and relationships same?

Have you thought of what would happen if tomorrow the sun doesn’t rise or set as it always does for like a month? Would the scientific laws and theories hinged on solar energy remain same? But scientific relationships are built on the ASSUMPTIONS that everyday we wake up, we WOULD always see the sun rise and set and our laws work as we assumed. If the sun doesn’t come up, then the scientific laws would not work as we BELIEVE them to be.
Even when scientists conduct tests and come up with hypotheses, human wills, worldviews, biases and philosophy are applied to choose from alternative results to suit a particular intended result. Those often are not empirical methods.

You are wrong about science. And science having limitations in explaining things that are not materialistic in nature makes it weak and insufficient to discuss religion and the supernatural and God. Maybe you go back to the Lewontin quote and understand their a priori worldview and their avowed reason not to let the supernatural through the door.
Lol!

Workch:
Where are you insulting me?

Just behind the teapot, though I doubt you'd see it since tea has not opened your eyes yet so you can see the pot.

Workch:
Thats exactly people who don’t provide evidence for their god do.

So why do you who claims to like evidence and not to believe do what those who believe do?

And why are you expecting someone else to provide you with evidence you ought to be seeking for yourself so that you are not deceived?

Workch:
Same way no one will provide evidence for existence and lack of existence for the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

It would be dumb to ask for any, I think, though one might do better with Russells teapot for which there's a photo showing its location in space and time.