₦airaland Forum

FOLYKAZE:
That question should be directed to Eusebius who invoked the ' discredited' Testimonium Flavianum of Josephus antiquity to prove the existence of historical Jesus.

Unknown to him and the church, Josephus was only referring to Jesus ben Damneus the high-priest whose brother - James the Just was reportedly killed by Ananus ben Ananus.

It however came out that what Origen, Eusebius, and church fathers hold to their chest as a secular evidence of historical Jesus is forgery.

Historically, James existed and his brother who was elected as high priest is Jesus Damneus, not Jesus christ.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_son_of_Damneus

The following is from your source.

"In the Antiquities of the Jews (Book 20, Chapter 9) first-century historian Josephus states that Jesus ben Damneus was made high priest after the previous high priest, Ananus son of Ananus, was removed from his position for executing James the brother of Jesus of Nazareth (James the Just)."

Does that, upon critical analysis, not imply that Jesus ben Damneus is not the same person as the brother of James whom Ananus he replaced was written to have executed?

Or perhaps your argument is that Jesus Christ is not Jesus of Nazareth?

FOLYKAZE:
He critically analysed the Dead Sea Scrolls, Nag Hammadi, Damascus scroll, Pseudoclementine Holmilies and Recognition, Josephus' Antiquity and War, Writings of the first and second century Christians Elders and whole lot of documents. If you call his analysis speculation, you are welcome..

"Critically analysed" texts, lol, as if those mythical texts themselves are not speculation, at best.

Fact is, whether Jesus walked on earth or not, quite a lot of that which it is claimed he taught is beneficial to society if properly understood. If you slap my cheek for instance and I turn the other cheek, your hand will tire of slapping my cheek long before you get to the 7 times seventieth slap, and if you critically analyse your slappings, you're bound to wonder if my cheek was made of iron, and that's if you are too heartless to wonder why you slapped my cheek so much. And there should be no doubt that everything we see before is, our understanding of it at least, was created by the words we read as you've show here. Though believing, which is what I'm finding funny about you, gets in the way of understanding what we read and claim to critically analyse.

This is shown by Bart Erthman whom you say claims "the whole New testament you depended on is wholesale forgery", but who concluded that "whatever else you may think about Jesus, he certainly did exist."

The New Testament was not forgery. It is however quite a lot of fiction, but that does not invalidate whatever truth is therein just as tales of the story of the tortoise in Things Fall Apart does not invalidate the truth of the lesson is sets out to teach, which is, don't be greedy and selfishly think of yourself alone.

Pelecius:
I agree with you about perspective and which was why I explained how the others too will see it differently. And also agree that truth should not be colored by perspective (I would actually prefer using worldview).

I have actually passed through the phase of unbelief, and I think I understand you there

Of course, evolution is now being used to refer to every form of CHANGE (maybe that's necessary to engrave it in our hearts? ), Just that I don't agree with the equivocation or bait-and-switch tactic that folks employ. It's a simple fallacy, not perspective/worldview based this time (lol).

Like I explained before, I have passed through that stage of skepticism and even unbelief. But skepticism cannot be infinite, else, there won't be anytime one can hold on to a truth. I believe wise Budaa understand what I mean with the last statement

I do understand your last statement. I myself have been an atheist from birth with deep interest in theism due to the need to understand those around me. Belief, however, is not what I'd advise as an antidote to skepticism because it implies laziness, to me.

If one is to be honest one would admit that one's belief might be one's 'knowledge' but that does not make it the truth, contrary to what we are made to believe. When one is told to be skeptic and ask and knock and seek, it is not so one may find what one should believe, since we are given beliefs from birth already and need not even bother to ask and knock and seek. In fact, I'd say beliefs are toxic, after all we do read that it is a thing demons do and tremble, so why emulate them?

Truth and understanding, are much more important, I'd say, but belief gets in the way often, stopping one from even seeking so one may actually know. My classic example is Eve the Skeptic, who did not believe she would surely die on the day she ate and so asked and knocked and sought the truth for herself and went on to populate the entire earth, we read.

Another example is of course Jesus Christ who refused to believe as those around him did to the extent that I say he was atheistic to the beliefs of his time. But I guess one would need to understand the unevolved meaning of the word to even consider Christ as an atheist.

As to what we seek, I guess we need eyes that see in order to recognise it, but when one does, selling all one has to purchase the field it is in becomes an option. It would however be silly to insist that those who see not purchase it.

FOLYKAZE:
Jesus Christ didn't exist. He is a personification of Jewish resistance movement, fashioned around The Egyptian, a zealot revolutionary leader; Jesus ben Sephat, second temple high priest; Jesus ben Ananus, second temple high priest; Jesus damneus, the brother of James; and so many other revolutionary leaders.

His birth is personified weaved around Judas the Galilean birth of the Zealot movement. This is why the Gospel writters fixated Jesus birth in 4BC.

Apostle Paul was an instrument in establishing Gentile Christianity, whitewashing Jewish community and killing James known as Stephen in Acts of Apostle. Herod Agrippa I and II had a hand in this. Vespasian saw the simultaneous uprising and escalating war in 66ADb and decided to create pacifist Jesus to counter the awakening Messiah motivational belief in Jewish community. He took Seraphis worship from Alexandra and coined Jesus with it.

Get James the Brother of Jesus written by Robert Einsmen, he elaborated the Jesus movement and how Paul, a Roman citizen hijacked it, creating what we know today as Christianity.

Very funny that you believe Robert Einsmen who at best was speculating. It's similar to believing Jesus walked on water and that he rose from the dead, but I'd expect you to argue you are not like people who believe that.

FOLYKAZE:
Had Christians know John Frum and Seraphis, they will understand that cobbling a new deity both in new and ancient age is norm. All these are done for political correctness and hopeful windbag. Jesus Christ is an invention of Roman Government. They succeeded in overthrowing James the just in the Jerusalem church and enthroned Peter the hypocrite in Rome church. Constantine established the Universal church to unite divided Western and eastern part of the empire.

I don't subscribe to Atwill's Caesar Messiah but his works opened me ancient conspiracy

Funnier still that the Romans "succeeded in overthrowing James the Just" who is recorded to be a brother of Jesus.

Was 'James the Just' a fictional character too then?

FOLYKAZE:
Get your hand on Forged written by Bart Erthman, there you will find the whole New testament you depended on is wholesale forgery, deceit in service of truth. Read Christians

Funny. Here's about the same Bart.

Did Jesus Exist? The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth is a 2012 book by Bart D. Ehrman, a scholar of the New Testament. In this book, written to counter the idea that there was never such a person as Jesus of Nazareth at all, Ehrman sets out to demonstrate the historical evidence for Jesus' existence, and he aims to state why all experts in the area agree that "whatever else you may think about Jesus, he certainly did exist."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Did_Jesus_Exist%3F_%28Ehrman_book%29?wprov=sfla1

The Gospels may be fiction but that does not mean Jesus is fiction too.

22jumpstreet:
Provide one please...

I should provide evidence that Jesus is more real than Okonkwo, or did you misunderstand my point?

I ask because no one seems to be in doubt that Okonkwo is a fictional character, while that of Jesus is debatable.

Pelecius:
from a Christian perspective

This, Pelecius, would be the issue here. The truth should not have a perspective, or at least, one should not colour it with perspectives, but if one does, one must acknowledge that those with other perspectives would hardly agree with one since a perspective is a kind of blindness that stops one seeing other's perspectives. It's an allegation I'd make against you and those debating with you by the way, myself included.

Still, here's a perspective for you. Unless one becomes an unbeliever of all that which one has been taught to believe, one would not understand God. Sound familiar? "As a child", is how the text puts it, but we must know we are not expected to literally degenerate to childhood, but just clear our minds of junk.

Evolution is not only genetic. One evolves when one becomes born again. You take on a new body (they might have written genes if they'd evolved to genetics, and it spiritually can mean mind), and become a new 'species'. Societies socially evolve or de-evolve too, in which case complexity may increase or degenerate just as a born again person may lose their born againism if they do not watch and pray.

Sceptism is healthy, is the point here, or one would just keep going in the path one has been told to, thereby repeating the errors of one's ancestors.

This is of course a perspective, and not a Christian one I dare say, and in no way truth.

Emusan:
Nice contribution budaa

Yes! And that was the reason I said PHYSICAL GROUP which I believe that by the time we begin it'll be at specific location.

I overlooked your "physical group". It means you'd be after people in a specific location or those who can travel to it, which might be limiting.

Might I suggest a Telegram group to begin with. There's bound to be lots of discussion before "by the time we begin", which could be done virtually. You may from there find people grouping according to common physical location.

By the way, your idea brings the following to mind.

https://archive.jewishagency.org/first-home-homeland/program/16766

https://www.touristisrael.com/what-is-a-kibbutz/6053

oaroloye:
MISHIGAS!

I THINK THAT IS CHARACTERISTICALLY COWARDLY OF YOUR KIND NOT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU DID NOT SEE THIS, UNTIL I POINTED IT OUT FOR YOU.

Mishigas please know that I don't read your word diarrhea unless you mention me, and even then I hardly bother to get past the first few paragraphs, so grow up and understand others have brains too.

oaroloye:
WHAT IS THIS "RAPE! RAPE!! RAPE!!!" YOU KEEP HARPING ON?

It is not a SIN.

There is no Commandment of God against what GENTILE UNBELIEVERS call "RAPE!".

So go rape, and see us unbelievers deal with your raping ass if God won't!

vedaxcool:
That is your reality... Why don't t you live it by yourself and not try to drag others into it?

Nicely put.

Perhaps they think everyone failed like they have, or can't understand how to take responsibility for themselves.

CharisEleos:
Wrong. It's not right to say "Handwriting". It can't be used in this context because it's not a specific statement as there's nothing like "legwriting."
However, you can have " hand writing" in this context of expression... "Can you see the hand writing on the wall?

As in, an actual hand writing on the wall, but can you really not see the handwriting on the wall?

There's usually no hand nor wall nor writing involved.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/handwriting--on--the--wall

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handwriting?wprov=sfla1

khia:
But are they invading other countries with their violence like Nigerians?

Yes now! On a larger scale too. Or what do you think they were doing in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and Panama, and almost Iran and Cuba if they had the balls?

backT:
The moment you identify yourself as being Nigerian, everybody is careful interacting with you.

Really? What country are you in that "everybody is careful interacting with you" because you are Nigerian?

Are you certain everybody is not careful interacting with you because of your own demeanour, because I haven't found people to be careful when interacting with me.

benalvino3:
Na wao? Buzz feed is following the case and reporting about what's filed in court. How that Wan take be my fault? Is buzzfeed lying or they are reporting on court activities? Buzz feed is a leftwing propaganda media. They are reporting what they see. I said the fbi is corrupt and I believe they have entraped the militia. What's dishonest about that?

Buzzfeed made that claim on their own assessment of evidence presented in court, which is very different to "reporting what they see" without adding their own opinion!

Pelecius:
Smiles
Of course, the context of my discussion clearly showed that I was talking about biological species since I talked about speciation.

That I'm complex than my ancestor is simply begging the question at hand already. I've been asking for evidence of how speciation leads to complexity - the mechanism involved and if possible, empirical evidence that demonstrate this. But my "learned" one has not for once provide any.

Speciation is mostly a BRANCHING OFF from a lineage, so that changes due to selection pressure causes such population to be unable to breed with the parent population. And this change is definitely controlled mostly by genes. A classic example is the Darwin's finches. The different beak size and shapes are controlled mostly by the time, place and amount of expression of a certain gene during embryonic development. So a certain species which have completely adapt to a niche becomes "specialized" than a parent population which still has the variability to adapt to various habitats. Hence, the new species born have lost the ability to thrive in another environment (due to loss in genetic info).
Another classic examples is the flightless beatles which thrives in the windy desert. They lost the ability to produce wings from a winged parent population. And of course thrive since the winged ones in such habitat would be blown away by wind into the see. But then, for most which have completely lost the genetic mechanism required for producing wings would be unable to produce it again. Thus, we say that they are less complex than the winged ancestor.

That I am being complex genetically than my ancestor is really begging the question at hand.

Well, I'd claim you have adapted to survive in an environment your ancestors couldn't even dream of, so I'd tentatively say you are more complex than your ancestors pending an assessment of said ancestors.

Complex is an odd word to use however I must say, because I don't really see how humans are more complex than say chimpanzees, especially since it opens one up to complexity due to colour, or differences in ability between humans of the same time. An example would be like claimimg an Ijaw person is more complex than an Ibo, or to be absurd, that an atheist is more complex than a theist.

Igboland bought Panama Canal? Now that's progress, I dare say, to shame the rest of Nigeria!

I wonder if some Northern state would buy the Suez Canal to compete.

Plomo:
Let their avengers disconnection team go and do what they do best na.

Why are they crying

I do not think they have the balls to cut off electricity to government agencies.

benalvino3:
See your life? the case is in court. You are ignorant of the issue. Leave it there

You so love being dishonest! I just hope you never get called for jury service, as you'd be deciding the case without considering the evidence.

An examination of the case by BuzzFeed News also reveals that some of those informants, acting under the direction of the FBI, played a far larger role than has previously been reported. Working in secret, they did more than just passively observe and report on the actions of the suspects. Instead, they had a hand in nearly every aspect of the alleged plot, starting with its inception. The extent of their involvement raises questions as to whether there would have even been a conspiracy without them.

This account is based on an analysis of court filings, transcripts, exhibits, audio recordings, and other documents, as well as interviews with more than two dozen people with direct knowledge of the case, including several who were present at meetings and training sessions where prosecutors say the plot was hatched. All but one of the 14 original defendants have pleaded not guilty, and they vigorously deny that they were involved in a conspiracy to kidnap anyone.

Attorneys for all but one of the defendants declined invitations to comment on the record for this story. To date, one defendant has formally accused the government of entrapment, arguing that the FBI assembled the key plotters, encouraged the group's anti-government feelings, and even gave its members military-style training. Additional defendants have said they plan to make similar claims when the cases, divided between federal and state court, go to trial starting as soon as October.

Last week, the lawyer for one defendant filed a motion that included texts from an FBI agent to a key informant , the Iraq War veteran, directing him to draw specific people into the conspiracy — potential evidence of entrapment that he said the government “inadvertently disclosed.” He is requesting all texts sent and received by that informant, and other attorneys are now considering motions that accuse the government of intentionally withholding evidence of entrapment.

Claiming government entrapment is a common strategy in domestic terrorism cases — in part because it is among the only available defenses if prosecutors have evidence from extensive surveillance. Such defenses usually fail, and most domestic terrorism defendants are convicted.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kenbensinger/michigan-kidnapping-gretchen-whitmer-fbi-informant

Pelecius:
Have anything contrary to it? I'll love to see it

Specie usually refers to:
Coins or other metal money in mass circulation
Bullion coins
Hard money (policy)
Commodity money
Specie Circular, 1836 executive order by US President Andrew Jackson regarding hard money
Specie Payment Resumption Act
And some are definitely superior to their ancestors, but I'd assume you mean species, which is one of the basic units of biological classification, in which case I'd have pointed to yourself being a newly formed specie more complex than your own ancestor but I'm certain you'd argue you are not a newly formed specie or not superior to your ancestors, but if you had studied Biology you'd have definitely been taught about evolution.

That said, Workch is adequately educating you so I'd let him get on with it, but after he's done, here's Evolution 101 to further your education.

And remember, Jesus is Lord.

Pelecius:
and that no newly formed specie is more complex than it's ancestor.

Really? Interesting.

RiceProducers:
Saudi Arabia lured a regime critic to their Embassy in Turkey, cut him up into little pieces and sent the chopped pieces back home.
Russia is nicer, they just inject plutonium into you and you die a slow painful death.
The US itself killed a high official of a sovereign government in Iraq at the airport using a cruise missile. Anytime I hear some duncy talk from fake Nigerian fawners after US and Europe, I get full of contempt.

You absolutely don't know what you are talking about.

I am saying Saudi Arabia is worse than Nigeria. We may kidnap, but I have not yet heard us chop people up like SA did. I even think USA is worse than Nigeria since we have not yet left our own country to blow people up in their's, and I doubt we are as bad as Russia as we have no plutonium, but perhaps you are saying different since you claim I don't know what I'm talking about but have then gone on to provide evidence for what I wrote. So, can you intelligently educate me to accept that Nigeria is worse than those countries above please, because I can't say I see it.

benalvino3:
You don't know what is going on. This is because you rely too much on the leftwing media.

So, Yahoo reporting "according to buzzfeed" is your source?

I smh.

arkonpoint:
MDA is broke niyen

That's not a reason not to pay their debt and plunge the nation into darkness. If it were publicly listed it's shareholders should ask for the head of its chairman and managing director.

Eko Electricity Distribution Company (EKEDC) asked the National Assembly to intervene in the debt owed to the company by Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDAs) which total about N21 billion.

This was disclosed by the Managing Director, EKEDC, Mr Adeoye Fadeyibi, during a visit of the Senate Committee on Privatisation to the company on Tuesday, in Lagos. The Committee was led by its Chairman, Sen. Theodore Orji.

The EKEDC revealed the government agencies were its largest debtors and has devised strategies to commence repayment of the debt by MDAs, citing worries that the inability of the DisCo to collect its debt owed is impeding its efforts to invest in infrastructure upgrade to improve power supply.

“It is our prayer to this committee to intervene on the repayment of this debt owed over the years by the MDAs,” Fadeyibi said.

“The biggest threat to our operations are vandals and customers who illegitimately connect to the lines causing revenue loss.

Prosecution of these types of cases are often prolonged and difficult to conclude because of the technical expertise required by the bench,” he added.
https://nairametrics.com/2021/07/28/power-ekedc-asks-national-assembly-to-intervene-in-n21-billion-mda-debt/

To start with I bet the debt is far greater than ₦21b, but see how they declined to name the MDAs as "biggest threat to our operations".

EKEDC would go to court if they were serious. Even if they did not get paid they'd have a judgement.

benalvino3:
Even the mainstream media now admits 12 out of the 18 plotters of the “whitmer kidnapping” in Michigan were FBI agents. They blamed trump rhetoric and his fanatics on it but the FBI took leadership role on the group, organised meetings and planned the kidnapping. The whole thing is nothing short of an entrapment. They blamed maga and trump.

Here you go again exaggerating like chief maga does. We all know that if you believed this you'd post credible sources.

I would wonder who'd be the first to mention anything to do with things with horns, but I guess that would be myself since I already have.

Two unidentified persons have been beheaded at Okporo Orlu in Orlu Local Government Area of Imo State by some yet to be identified persons.

The emergency search party, he disclosed, quickly visited the house of one of the victims, where a relation, who pleaded not to be mentioned, said that the assailants, who wore a face mask, carried out the dastardly act, after invading the house around 3.00 am, even as they started shooting sporadically.

https://tribuneonlineng.com/again-gunmen-strike-in-imo-behead-two-persons/

DappaD:
Can you give verifiable evidence that Greek philosophers like Socrates, Plato & Archimedes walked the earth?

For Archimedes and Plato, their writings would suffice as evidence of their existence. For Socrates, however, we'd have to consider if what Aristophanes wrote was true or fiction or fiction based on an actual person which is what Plato presents for Socrates. That however is not to claim Jesus existed or not as the facts are rather more patchy.

Still, that should be relevant only to a believer, and not so much to a learner, as its like asking if the fictional tortoise in Things Fall Apart existed, rather that learning the lesson therein, and would be the province of one considering or convincing themself to be an atheist. After all, love your neighbour and your enemy moreso is good for human society and not a suitable thing to be atheistic about just as it would be odd to be atheistic about fictional Okonkwo.

Just consider a thread asking 'Did Okonkwo exist', and you might get my point, though there is far more evidence for Jesus.

The title of your thread "My Mother Set Me Up With Her Friends Daughter, now She Is Pregnant" is rather amusing.

Did your mother use your bits to impregnate Her Friend's Daughter, I can't help wonder.

So, because she mistook his car for Uber, he stabbed her 120 times?

I hope he enjoys his 'life'.