₦airaland Forum

2muchlogic:
cap, why are you wasting time on educating the lost souls? some of us are born to lead and other are born to follow. There would be no balance if we were all leaders or all followers - you are needed here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-642516.0.html

i hear you bro, the thing that gets me about mental deficients like sagamite is that instead of hiding away in a corner in order to cover up their vast ignorance and stupildity they shamelessly inflict their limitless foolishness on others and parade their ignorance and gross stupididty on public forums for the whole world to see - and these same people have the audacity to claim that they are educated, where in the world do educated and informed people reason like sagamite and his ilk,i now see why the IMF's recommendation to cut spending on education is the most effective form of enslavement - because poor education not only causes you to be mentally enslaved by your oppressors but it also prevents you from knowing how to change your condition.

guyman02 after reading through your transcript from US senator Inhofe i found this clip on youtube where he goes into more detail about how the elections were rigged in favour of Ouattara:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yxy2Z7UTdQE&feature=related

its really strange how even white intellectuals understand that africans are exploited by western imperialists and yet some brain dead africans DEFEND and make excuses on behalf of their own oppressors, i would really like to know how an illiterate like Sagamite can claim to be more knowledgeable than an esteemed academic like Noam Chomsky or an intellectual juggernaut like Michael Parenti, how is it that a gibbering illiteerate like sagamite can actually think that he is more credible than this man:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eKMspN-7Co

^^^^^^

thank you bro you've described this self hating sambo down to a tee - gutless and balless to the core.

Sagamite:
Don't be as DAFT as cap28!

Don't be as STEWPID!

Where the fck is your education!

In your education, they did not teach you to evaluate critically? They taught you to generalise?

Why are you comparing 1993 to 2011? Governments don't change? Philosophies don't change? Ideologies don't change? Cultures don't change? People don't react differently based on experience? Different people with different outlooks are not in power?

How dumb are you to be comparing what leaders in early 1990s did to what leaders in 2011 are doing?

You are so dumb you think Obama will or has to do exactly the same thing as HW Bush? Sarkozy to do what Mitterand did? Are you really that daft?

You think Obama or Cameron will send troops into Libya after experiencing the difficulty and prolongness such a decision produced in Iraq? You think they will be willing to go gong-ho into countries after Somalia?

How dumb can you be to expect a static approach to issues despite changes in generation, governments, powers and thinking?

What a dumb simpleton mind!

Where the fck do reeetards like you and cap28 get your education?

yes govts and ideologies change -but economic interests remain the same and europe and america's economic interests have always been about maximising profit for their multinational corporations around the world - hence the promotion by the govts of these nations of a free market economy based on privatisation of the public sector, deregulation and a reduction in public spending on education and healthcare.  This is the current economic model promoted and championed by america, and europe and this is what is being imposed on countries like ivory coast and nigeria in the name of economic development.  

so get it into your big head that economic interest has always been the foremost consideration for all of  these neo colonialists not freedom and democracy in africa.

Obama is not interested in repeating the mistakes of iraq - and he's not willing to go gung ho into other countries??

well he's got a funny way of exercising caution - i mean if he's exercising such caution why has he committed america into a war in libya thats costing the american tax payer $ 100 million dollars a day !!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2011/mar/28/usforeignpolicy-usdomesticpolicy

Sagamite:
Moooron, were the AU and Ecowas who approved the election also stooges of the "dangerous, colonialist white men that are hellbound on taking cap28 back to slavery" as well?

Sick muthafucker!

I really now see why the whites laugh at us - with  illiterates like you they will continue to run rings around us for centuries to come - so in your dense brain you actually think a toothless bulldog like the AU has the balls to defy america, the EU and NATO when the majority of the leaders of those AU member states owe their very existence to these same organisations, dumbo, nigeria receives millions of dollars in military aid from the america, britain and the EU - do you serously think that with that they are going to go against the very people who are making it possible for them to remain in power?  why do you think nigeria cowardly voted in favour of the no fly zone over libya - because they are pawns of the west - they are owned by the west you dummy, nigeria is not a soveriegn entity it has to get clearance and approval on anything it does from the US and the UK before it does it, the same goes for the majority of the AU member states with the exception of libya which is why libya is now under attack, boy you really need a wake up call.

bawss1 said:
Cap28, I find that you are disturbingly pro Ghadaffi and pro Gbagbo. You cut the picture of one who prefers that tyrants and dictators hold a people to ransom as long as they fit into (imagined) western conspiracy theories.

these people you call tyrants were allies with the west until they stepped out of line, gaddaffi was doing a roaring business with the entire EU, along with america up until december last year, there was no complaint about him being a tyrant then was there?  does it mean  a person only becomes a tyrant when he falls out of favour with the west ?  are you that easily maniupulated that you only recognise something to be "bad" or "wrong" when someone else (who doesnt even have your interest at heart) tells you its wrong?  How come Blaise Campaore or Paul Biya are not being described as tyrants by france and the EU, oh let me guess - because they are following orders -  hahahahha - i should have guessed .

Dont forget that the late Omar Bongo another tyrant was in power in Gabon for 42 years, why wasnt he described as a tyrant after all he appropriated billions of his countries oil revenue and used it to enrich himself and his family while leaving the majority of his people to live in squalor - why wasnt the cry of tyranny raised by france then? funnily enough his son has since taken up the reins of power and not a whimper from the french, oh that must be because Bongo and his dad have been financing french presidential elections for decades.

gadaffi only became a tyrant the minuite he decided to nationalise the libyan oil industry thereby cutting out western oil corporations from the humonugous profits they were making in his country to the detrimient of libya's economy and its people- learn to read between the lines, you are being taken for a ride.

oh lets not forget mobutu - place in office by the CIA and allowed to stay there for  37 years courtesy of military aid from the US, despite all this the US were quite happy to look the other way while he plundered billions in mineral resources and killed thousands of his own people who tried to challenge him - not even whimper from the US while all this was going on, probably due to the mineral concessions they received from him.

Sagamite:
You are reeetarded!

That is why Ouattara was announced the winner?

Shagamite, Ouattara was announced the winner because he is an IMF stooge imposed on the ivorien people by France, the US, the EU and US controlled UN, the west regard him as a safer pair of hands because he will implement the complete privatisation of the ivory coast public sector by foreign investors, and he will also allow the implementation of IMF conditionalities which will focus on paying off ivory coasts debt rather than the economic development of ivory coast- he has an impeccable track record in the economic enslavement of african nations to the US owned bank, in his previous job with the IMF  he was responsible for implementing Enhanced Structural Adjustment Facilities (ESAF) in a number of west african countries which subsequently led to the collapse of those countries educational and health institutions, that is all he has to offer the ivory coast people, and the smart ones know this, therefore start using your brain and learn to see the bigger picture before you open your big mouth to talk about "peace and democracy", yeah like the "peace and democracy" in nigeria abi.

The cap28 guy honestly has mental issues. I bet he looks outside his window every 45 seconds for the "imaginary" white men planning to bring him down.

People like you deserve whats coming because your dense brain can not tell the difference between fantasy and reality, perhaps when you are back in chains a light will go on in that your dense head, in the meantime keep hallucinating about "freedom and democracy" in africa, fool.

^^^^^

Saggy, Ouattara won 49% of the votes while Gbagbo won 51%? how does that translate as a win for Ouattara dullard?

^^^^^^^
hahahaha lest i forget - why didnt your own colonial masters britain overrule IBB's annulment of the 1993 elections in which MKO was declared the winner, how come they didnt declare MKO the winner of the elections then, why were they silent to the extent that they even allowed him to hand power back to another military goon - abacha.  

As if that wasnt bad enough they even stood by and let abacha jail your supposedly democratically elected president MKO, the icing on the cake was when they sent their hit squad to silence him once and for all because he refused to abandon his goal to be reinstated , now these same people have bamboozled you into beleving that they are in ivory coast in order to install a democratically elected president  - hahahahhahahahha

May these people continue running rings around you, you're simply too dumb to understand the game.

^^^^^^

will you close that gaping hole you call a mouth, do you think Ouattara is there to serve the interest of the ivory coast people or the economic interests of france, in your dumb mind do you seriously think france took all this trouble to send troops to remove Gbagbo because they're interested in implementing democracy in ivory coast or merely interested in protecting their vast economic investments . when are you going to wake up and understand that this is all about NEO COLONIAL RESOURCE CONTROL, dURING THE RWANDAN CRISIS (a crisis which they instigated) DID FRANCE SEND TROOPS to protect their former colonial subjects  the tutsis who were being slaughtered by the hutus? DID THE UN send troops?  What did Clinton say when he was asked to send troops to prevent the loss of lives there?
do yourself a favour and close that gaping hole u call a mouth before flies take up permanent residence in it.

^^^^

sshhh - i can see you still follow blindly like a sheep without a shepherd - the constitutional council which is the highest decision making body in the land much like nigeria's supreme court declared Gbagbo the winner.

this situation in ivory coast has got me thinking, consider the following scenario in nigeria:

after a hotly contested presidential election between a northern muslim and an incumbent southern christian, the northern candidate is declared the winner, however after the nigerian supreme court discover evidence of voting fraud the original result is nullified and recounted resulting in a declaration of victory for the southern incumbent.

the UN and prime minister Cameron of the UK overule nigeria's supreme court decision and declare the northern IMF puppet the winner and ask the incumbent southern president to step down in favour of the northern candidate, the southern incumbent refuses to budge.  The AU join the chorus of western voices calling for the southern president to step aside, to which the southern president turns a deaf ear.  

the UK and the UN impose a no fly zone over nigeria and destroy nigeria's entire air defence capability. The UK arm the northern puppet's militia who go on a murderous rampage killing thousands of southern christians, the UK provides them with air cover and bombs the southern incumbent's presidential palace into what they hope will be submission, the UK then send in ground troops who join in with the northern puppet's militia in the killing of  many more southern christians, british SAS then storm the southern incumbent's presidential palace capture the incumbent and hand him over to the northern puppet's muslim militias.  

Ivoriens who have been following the situation on the BBC, Al Jazeera , CNN and MSNBC cheer on the british, praising them for their fair play in the same breath they call for the southern president's head, calling him a greedy sit tight b.astard, the northern puppet is hailed and welcomed as a breath of fresh air.

This is the new face of neo colonialism and its coming to a resource rich country in africa near you.

buzugee:
no problemos mi amigos

well its like this, existing is what your physical body does. what does your physical body need ? food, light, water, clothing, decent standards of living. your physical body needs a place to exist. certain places are hard to exist in than others. nigeria is one of those places that is hard to exist in, especially if you are poor.

now the main and controlling component of your 'being' is your soul. your soul does the living. your soul wants to breathe and be nourished and not feel limited, constrained, shackled down, beatdown, etc etc. your soul craves the company of other souls for joy. this is why your soul can never be happy in places like the uk and usa and germany. your soul ceases to live when you exist in places like that because those kinds of economic and social systems are designed to destroy your soul and recombine it into a robotic form. your soul also is beatdown on the racial level too. that feeling that you are percieved as less than human is bad for the soul. it destroys it. these western societies destroy souls. thats why a lot of black people go crazy in those societies. these societies are fiercely individualistic, your next door neighbor does not want to know you, heck you can live in the same building and not know one single person in there for over 10 years. its a host of factors in the west that colludes to make your soul stop living.

so there you have it. the body exists but the soul lives.
ever notice how the happiest nigerians live in nigeria while the saddest nigerians live abroad ? you would think with all the creature comfort they have abroad they will be happier right ? well their soul has been crushed. it has stopped living.

very good points you made up there bro, the western world is not conducive for the spiritual and psychological well being of black people, this fact has even been borne out by empirical evidence from a number of psychiatrists, a study was undertaken in which blacks living in america and europe were found to be more prone to psychiatric illnessees than blacks livign in nigeria or any other nation with a predominantly black population.  its one thing beign able to have the basic neccesities of life but of what use is that if you are desperately miserable when you get them?
This is why the psychiatric hospitals in this country have a very large black male demographic, its the  years and years of undermining, the covert racism and the negative subliminal racist messages used by the media that eventually cause many blacks to suffer mental breakdowns.

AkoEja:
Bavarian is mostly right, but he has exagerated a lot.[/[/b]color] I have lived in the UK for 16 years, so I know what I am talking about. UK is not as dangerous as he has put it, but some parts are.

[color=#550000][b]If you are not the best in your chosen field and your area of expertice is not in demand, you will almost never get a proper job in the UK.
The average white person in the UK suffers from a form of colonial mentality which makes them want to seem to be good to Africans, though behind, they hate you. They can pretend to be nice a lot, though they may make racist comments or commit racist acts without realising it.
Subconsciuosly, they set a much higher standard when assesing a non-white person, so you have to be better than their best to get an average mark.

At University or college for example, an assignment that should get an A * might manage a D or C, so if you are normally worth a B or C, you will fail, unless you are lucky to meet a good person marking your assignment.

But legally, the law is much stronger against racism than most European countries, though the burden of proof will always be a problem for victims.

english people DO NOT want to be good to africans at all - they have nothing but contempt for africans, ive worked with these people for years and years and i can tell you that if they had one wish it would be for all of us to be put on a boat and shipped back to africa. I have never ever come across any english person that treats africans as their equals, when it comes to jobs, they will tolerate you working with them if you are doign something menial like a cleaner, cook but you will get a lot of hassle, backbiting, undermining and hate from them if you are on an equivalent level, god help you if you have to supervise or manage any of them - they will make your life very miserable. We like deceiving ourselves into beleiving that they dont realise just how racist they are - beleive me they know exactly what they are doing, go onto their chat forums and find out what they think of black people. Or go to their football matches and here the vile abuse they mete out to black footballers that even represent their own teams. Ill give them one thing though, they've perfected falseness into a fine art, thats why many africans dont even realise it when they're being treated badly by them.

buzugee:
bad housing ? really ? dude you need to go all over northern england and see what bad housing is. all occupied by white people. my point being everybody collects the same benefits. you can live wherever you want if you can afford it. high levels of unemployment ? ill give you that. but i think naija guys in IT were making big bank ? or is that a past relic ?

well there isnt much investment up north, thatcher closed down the coal mines in the 80s which was a major employer of white workign class people and the big manufacturers who were also big employers of working class whites outsourced most of their jobs to the far east, i think thats the reason white people up north live like that, down in the south east of england however where there are more jobs, better housing and more investment blacks still find themselves struggling, mainly because blacks face discrimination in the employment market.  

yes you can live wherever youwant if you can afford it, but thats the problem, many blacks face discrimination in the job market and therefore cant live wherever they want for the simple reason that they dont earn enough.

i dont know much about the IT market, but i suspect that after the dot.com bubble burst many of these jobs disappered.

buzugee:
i can respect that but i differ on them being powerless. bernie grant, dianne abbott and david lami (tottenham guy ) have done lots for their constituent. boateng is a power broker too. dont under-estimate what these people are doing. and yes the proportionality of the black population to the white population is fairly represented in the house. we are 1 percent of the british population. i believe we are fairly represented. for every 100 mp there should be 2 asians and 1 black and 1 other.minorities are only 5 percent of the uk. remember that

I dont know, i really struggle to see what the abovementioned people did for blacks in britain, im not saying they were or are not well intentioned, i just think that you cant do much when you are just a tiny minority without much clout. blacks still suffer higher levels of unemployment and bad housing a lot of this is to do with the overall crippling effect of institutionalised racism.

buzugee:
in britain tonnes of blacks hold political offices. and these guys say germany is more advanced than the UK ? i laugh in swahili

hmm lets not get too carried away bro, i dont think there are "tonnes" of black politicans here in the UK- there are a few, they are powerless and never speak up on behalf of blacks but at least they're there and they dont have to walk around with 24 hour armed guards to protect them from potential racist attacks.  the truth of the matter is that britain's black population is much larger than the rest of europe, has been here longer and has fought to get a few crumbs from the table, with places like germany blacks are few in number and are more or less invisible and have no political representation.

i forgot to post this clip of a black man who tried running for a political seat in germany and had to withdraw because of all the death threats he kept getting, the head of a far right german organisation had this to say: "we dont mind non germans (blacks) living in our country we just dont want them to have any political power"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avk6333V_Z4

[quote author=Münchener link=topic=640893.msg8091555#msg8091555 date=1302401347]@cap28

History of Germany´s genocide in Namibia? and Colonization and Hitler? is that where you want to be looking into in 2011? things that happened over 130 years ago? I´m not denying anything but tell me, the British, Americans Spaniards, Australians didn´t massacre native americans and black people for over 400 years that´s what I´m saying. I see that you´re in the UK, why don´t you ask the british if they didn´t kill us for centuries and ask them if they really like you. I think you don´t get me, an average German will show you if he doesn´t like you but the British won´t, they´ll kill you so, choose one. Do you think I´m lieing that I know the UK more than many of you? Ok, you´ll be surprised if you see evidences that I could be more british than you. let me give you a tip, I´m a mix of black and white I´m very proud of my father & I´m proud to be a Nigerian so conclude the rest yourself.[/quote]i mentioned the genocide of the herero because its a hidden part of german history that many africans dont know about, the fact that it happened over 100 years ago doesnt mean it shuld be swept under the carpet, arent we bombarded day in and day out with tv programmes, documentaries and discussions about the jewish holocaust?  how come the jews are not saying - oh that happened over 60 years ago lets forget about it?  No they learnt from it and today israel is one of the most powerful and militarily superior nations in the world, once bitten twice shy i guess.   but with us just because a white person shows his teeth to us we roll over gratefully and think he loves us.
im very aware that other europeans that you mentioned committed genocide of non white people, did you see me here making excuses on their behalf the way you are?

i am also very aware that the british killed hundreds if not thousands of africans - im not making excuses on their behalf, what im saying here is that all europeans have the same agenda towards africans - subjugation and exploitation -nothing has changed.

of course i know the british are the ringleaders but again im not defending them the way  you are defending germans who the whole world knows are a bunch of racists, had hitler won the second world war what do you think would have happened to non white people the world over, or did you not know that the nazis beleived in eugenics and the superiority of the aryan race (blue eyed blonde haired northern european) over every other race.

if the germans are as tolerant of blacks or non whites as you claim why did boris becker have to leave the country when he married his mixed race wife, correct me if im wrong but i heard he was getting loads of death threats from white germans. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/monaco/1377224/Becker-and-his-wife-split-after-seven-year-fight-against-racism.html

i thought  a few posts ago you said you were a black nigerian, now all of a sudden you've become half white and half black - despite the fact that i was born here in the UK i do not identify myself as british - to me having british citizenship just makes life a lot more easier in terms of moving around, other than that being a black person with british citizenship does not confer any special privileges or advantages as you are still treated like a foreigner therefore if you see yourself as being more british than me, thats up to you, the fact remains that if you look visibly black you will still be treated differently from whites.

[quote author=Münchener link=topic=640893.msg8088716#msg8088716 date=1302370531]@Outstrip


I believe you, it´s such a pity and of course like every country in the world,and infact Germany has a ugly history of it. there is racism everywhere and racist individuals. But have you considered that it didn´t have anything to do with the German government or an average German on the street? you too know that racism begins and ends in America & former American leaders + present ones have been openly racist not to talk of Directors of some German based company. Do you believe me that I am black, Nigerian, and fight racism in this country? I´m infact actively in a political party. I have done better in this country seeing less of the racism, I discovered how tolerant & good Germans are when I decided to see things in a more neutral way instead of judging from their history or what people say they are. Believe me Outstrip, I´m saying this to you with all my heart as a sister, I swear, I have been happier and more successful in this country than ANYWHERE in the world. Please don´t join the people who condemm this country from outside, you and your husband should get to know this country and the people.

There are racists everywhere but one thing I can asure you is that this is a humble, neutral country and you could face worse racism in any country. Germany has the problem we have as well which is bad media image from their fellow english speaking westerners UK, US Australia etc, they´re envious of this country because of their economic strength & the Germans themselves know that this game has been played well. They know that English speaking africans have this impression about them, judging them from the UK media. Here, camerounians, senegalese, and other francophone countries do better than many Nigerians because they´re more positive about the country and they integrate well-study/settle. But Nigerians rely on what UK & US media report so they don´t even see the oportunities right in front of them when they migrate here. I left this country too! and after 6 years of roaming about, I saw that Germany was not that terrible afterall. Many of our people are too lazy to learn the language, go to school, and settle down like they would do in the UK or US. So, they start complaining that Germany is bad without integration and education. The issue is more with the language than racism. That is the bitter truth sister.[/quote]is it me or do you sound as if you are in denial about germany's heinous past and present treatment of african people?

do you know who the first victims of the german genocide programmes were? Africans, the germans killed over 120,000 africans from the herero and nama ethnic groups in namibia in 1904 because these tribesmen refused to give up their land, they dont like you - they are just keeping up a very thin veneer of tolerance, but when the chips are down you will soon find out who they really are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_Genocide

2muchlogic:
how are ya cap? 

my brother im well thanks

These are good points the water project and constant electricity without borrowing heavily, I am not trying to knock Gadaffi as a person; to be honest I am more concerned about sub saharan Africa and the effects Libya might have on them. 

Can you imagine how developed libya would be if Gadaffi harnessed ALL Libyan Human resources and did not subject his country to 12 years of economic sanctions? That is bad management.  Oil to the west is like crack to a drug addict, why? because their whole infrastructure is built on oil.  The USA did have some of the largest deposits of oil before they industrialized but they have developed so much that they have exhausted those supplies, while Africa was NOT developing.  A good manager will say "they need the oil, lets sell it to them at the highest price and use the proceeds to develop" - SIMPLE!!!!!  For crying out loud, after 12 years of economic sanctions and having to pay around $7 billion dollars compensation for sponsoring terrorism had Gadaffi not learnt his lessons?

bro, lets just clarify one thing here, Gadaffi did nothing to deserve the economic sanctions that were imposed on libya, Gadaffi is the victim here.  Lets talk about lockerbie, have you researched the evidence on this case?  Are  you aware that there IS NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE IMPLICATING LIBYA ON LOCKERBIE, okay i know what you're thinking, why did gadaffi then pay £2.7 billion in compensation to the relatives of the victims - i will tell you why, because the economic sanctions imposed on his nation were crippling them and in a bid to develop his nation and move it into the 21st century he decide to pay his way back into the international community, bro if you only know the half of who this international community is and what they are capable of you would pity gadaffi, im telling you.  Okay so gadaffi, pays the £2.7billion, he is then welcomed back into the "international community" and alllowed to resume the sale of his light sweet crude, he now starts opening up the country to foreign investment, he lets the chinese and americans in , he lets the russians in, he lets the british, french and italians in to take on various crude oil and infrstructure projects - he then agrees to hand over his nuclear capabilities -  is that the behaviour of an unhinged deranged megalomaniac?
In my opinion - the biggest mistake he ever made was dismantling his nuclear capabilities, to be honest with you this man has been betrayed by the west , how is it that in a space of 3 months this man has gone from being business partner and friend to public enemy number one, do you knw that this man's son donated millions of pounds to the london school of economics (an elite higher institution in london) and financed sarkozy's (french prime minister) election  campaign - please im sick of the stinking hypocrisy of these demons - lets open our eyes and stop being fools for christsakes!!!!

If you check the deeds of this man you will find that he most definitely has the interest of his people at heart.

I am not too sure about this, information was tightly controlled in Libya as we can see and GDP per capita is such an inaccurate measure of wealth invented by Oyinbos as far as I am concerned.  Thats why I want us Africans to come up with our own system that will benefit us Africans but fit in with the west.   For example Bill gates is worth something like $56 billion, but the GDP per capita of the USA is $47, 152, that means Bill Gates accounts for the productivity of 21 million Americans?

okay dont look at GDP, look at these so called rebels, look at the smooth roads they drive back and forth on on therir way to wage war on gadaffi and his troops,  look at the faces of the libyan  people , are they filled with despair, hunger and misery?  I am sick to my stomach of the western media and their lies, the truth of the matter is that  this is a neo colonial war for the appropriation of libya's oil - end of story, its also a war for expansion and further geo political control over the middle east - lets stop pus.sy footing around this issue.

more importantly, its obvious that africans are more spiritual than their western counterparts, how do we measure that? What impact dose spirituality have on the quality of life? Economics eliminates all these  variables and tries to simplify things inorder to promote globalization in favour of the west.  How many economic concepts have africans come up with?  This is why its pertinent to have a cultural revoultion because every action will be designed to maximize the life of ones people.  In Africa they try to practice European culture, thats why they are suffering.

i agree, but as long as you have puppets like jonathan, obasanjo and other traitors at the helm of affairs we will continue to suffer, these people are neo colonial agents - in order to move forward we must remove them.

Exactly, so that shows you that Africans developing Weapons are not enough!  As the Yoruba will say: “ogbon ju agbara lo” that means the intellect is more powerful than physical power (e.g nukes).

We are on the EXACT same wavelengh on this one – great response.

I see what you mean but this is where the management needs to come into it, if he used his brain he would say:

1. if I sell the oil to the west I will get $N Billion per year
2. If I nationalize the oil industry I will get $N Billion x 4 per year
- BUT the ECONOMIC sanctions will cost $N Billion per year
- The attacks on my country will cause $N Billion of damage per year
- The REBUILDING will cost $N Billion per year
- The Phycological damage will cost $N Billion per year
-  The decrease in INVESTOR CONFIDENCE will cost $N Billion per year
3. Conclusion option 1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its not that simple, the western neo liberal economic model doesnt not tolerate deviation in any form, no matter how minute, read about how america destroyed all left leaning socialists regimes in nicaragua, ecuador, guatemala, grenada, the leaders of these countries wanted a ssytem which was more socialist and equitable and could provide a safety net for the poor but they were all subjected to coup detats or military interventions all orchestrated by the US/UK .  Gadaffi's crime is that he cut oil production in order to make oil prices go up, the west were outraged by this, they wanted him to behave like the other OPEC nations and just take what he was given for his oil.

Yes! Instead of being confrontational and nationalizing the oil industry they have been using their BRAINS (which is not very often) by encouraging the private sector to buy out foreign oil companies to increase indigenous ownership and production.  Have you not heard of wale Tinubu? Have you heard of Kasse Lawal? Adenuga just bought an oil block from shell two days ago for $1.3 billion.  Harsh conditions have forced shell to embark on a divestment plan, and as long as Nigeria keeps selling to the USA at reasonable market prices there will be no problem.

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/adenuga-wins-shell-s-most-prolific-onshore-oil-block/88992/

But is shell exiting completely? No, but lets see how this one develops.

I would be scared too if there was a prospect of 120 missiles a day being dropped on my country.

i regard the likes of Tinubu, Adenuga and Lawal as profitteers of a corrupt system,will their actions lead to job creation or allevation of poverty among the teeming masses of unemployed youths in nigeria,? No, these people will merely pocket their huge windfalls and continue to exploit the masses of poverty stricken nigerians, they are part of the problem.

In all seriousness, I do not know whether to laugh or cry when it come to nigerian politics – its a mess! I agree that as long as they can profit thats it – they don't care about the environment, the people, the image of africa, NOTHING! But themselves.  Can you imagine that oil spill off the gulf of mexico occuring in Nigeria? I have read that most of the spills in Nigeria are worse and have been taking place since the 50s and what happens?  A crooked politician will take a bribe of a few million whilst the land is left damaged for generations.

But on an encouraging note, as I mentioned earlier, the divestment of shell and participation of some wealthy nigerians in the oil industry is a welcome development – time will tell if this is the way forward.

i dont think unlimited privatisation is the answer, because you are simply placing economic control back into the hands of people who are only interested in making money at the expense of the masses , we need a mixed economy, where the public sector retains control over major sectors such as the oil industry, agriculture, manufacturing, health and education with limited access to the financial industry,  i think that is the way forward.

Bastage:
You're always good for a laugh. You've held up this river before when challenged as if it's the greatest thing in the world and that it vindicates 40 years of tyranny in Libya. Maybe it escaped your notice, but the Egyptians were irrigating the desert 3000 years ago.
Interesting that you use the statement "he built this without borrowing a penny from the West" as if it's some personal achievement of Gaddafi. The planning, the labour, the money were Libyan - not his. All the "beneveloent dictator" did was give the scheme the go-ahead. You shout as if it was some sort of personal achievement of Gaddafi's that every one should worship him for.

i said that i wouldnt respond to you but i just cant resist making you look like the re.tard that you are, you accuse gadaffi of tyranny - would you have preferred that the libyans remain under fascist  italian colonial rule which is basically how it was ruled up until 1947 in which the occupying italians forced libyans to give up their identity and culture in order to be assimiliated by italy.  would that have been your idea of freedom and democracy?

Or would you have preferred the monarchical system which followed under the british puppet - king idris who preferred to serve the interests of the british rather than the interests of the libyan people?
i know you have no appreciation of nationhood ,therefore this point is very likely to go over that your big empty head.

do you understand what tyranny means?  or do you just use the word because you think it makes you sound intelligent?

Libya is actually a socialist state that is why it refers to its self as the Libyan jamahiriya - jamahiriya meaning state of the masses or govt of the people.  Libya is run by groups of council's and committees, gadaffi does not actually have absolute power - he rules through these various committees, the reason that he is so visible is because he is the spiritual leader of the revolution which ushered him into power 42 years ago, he is seen as a symbol of strenghth, courage and nationalism by his people, this is somethign which you cant relate to because  you are a man with no cutural affinities who stands for nothign and falls for everything.
If he wwere such a tyrant why is he building roads, hospitals, housing, why are his people well fed and educated, why are women allowed to go to school and get a decent education, why are libyan women the most educated arab women in the middle east - dumbo answer those questions.

If he were such a tyrant why is libya's Human development index the highest in africa, higher than in your own country which is a supposed democracy?  Why werent libyans leaving libya in droves to look for a better life in europe like nigerians?  

The fact that this supposed dictator could provide his people with a higher standard of living than your own democratic nigerian leaders, makes you look like the complete fool that you are, are you not ashamed to keep bleating on about libya being ruled by a tyrant when you cant even afford to live in your own country?  

It's also pathetic how you're now whining about UN and Western involvement in Cote D'Ivoire. A couple of weeks ago, you were continuously posting about how the West were hypocrites because they wouldn't use military force to oust Gbagbo. Now they have, you've completely changed your tune and started crying about it.

If you had a working brain you would have understood that my complaint against the UN was about their failure to intervene in Ivory Coast in order to prvent the unecessary killing of thousands of civilians that were being mowed down by Ouattara's thugs -at no point did i advocate that the UN should intervene to remove Gbagbo - only an unadulterated dunce like yourself would recommend external military intervention in order to remove the head of a soveriegn nation.
the UN charter explicity states that UN member states are not permitted to intervene or interfere with the internal politics of member states but again these are facts that re.tards like yourself are not familiar with.  

Talking about? He mentioned it once in a satellite conversation to a class of students. Then it dropped off the table forever. But let's say that he was going to nationalise it? In the conversation he had with the students, he claimed that he wanted to nationalise because oil prices were low. Since that conversation, they've climbed to record levels (long before the Libyan crisis). Are you dumb enough to think he'd still want to nationalise? And what about a little thing known as OPEC. Try reading up on it. OPEC sets the oil price. Not an individual government. Even if Gaddafi nationalised, he would not have the power to put up oil prices. Or do you think that a tyrant whose oil exports were 3 percent globally could control OPEC's monetary policy?

More gross stupi.dity from an A class dunce - so you think the foreign press would get jittery over a conversation he had with a class of students without first confirming whether or not this was his official position? dumbo he was making an official statement which is confirmed in the reuters article.

Also at the time that gadaffi made that statement crude oil prices were very low at $44 a barrell, a third of what they were in 2008 ($148 per barrel)  this is why he was talking about nationalising the oil sector.

the reason that theyve  started climbing is because HE CUT PRODCUTION on 1 January 2009 BY  270,000 barrells, in doing so HE caused prices to go up, in your dazed and confused state you cant even understand this basic concept.

It is because of Gadaffi's unwillingness to be bullied into accepting $44 per barrell for his sweet crude oil that prices have been on the rise however they are nowhere near the levels that they were in mid  2008 therefore i have no idea how you came to the conclusion that they have reached "record levels".

I love the way you say "get a better deal for his people". He's sat there with billions of dollars in international banks and with gold reserves under his personal control for 40 years and has given the Libyan people what? A river. Man, you make me laugh.

No dumbo he gave his people, constant electricity, running water, well maintained roads, affordable food, and the highest human development index in africa, which by the way is higher than that of nigeria - so high that unlike you his people didnt have to leave their own country in order to make ends meet,  am i getting through to you now?

Bastage:
You're always good for a laugh. You've held up this river before when challenged as if it's the greatest thing in the world and that it vindicates 40 years of tyranny in Libya. Maybe it escaped your notice, but the Egyptians were irrigating the desert 3000 years ago.
Interesting that you use the statement "he built this without borrowing a penny from the West" as if it's some personal achievement of Gaddafi. The planning, the labour, the money were Libyan - not his. All the "beneveloent dictator" did was give the scheme the go-ahead. You shout as if it was some sort of personal achievement of Gaddafi's that every one should worship him for.


It's also pathetic how you're now whining about UN and Western involvement in Cote D'Ivoire. A couple of weeks ago, you were continuously posting about how the West were hypocrites because they wouldn't use military force to oust Gbagbo. Now they have, you've completely changed your tune and started crying about it.

Talking about? He mentioned it once in a satellite conversation to a class of students. Then it dropped off the table forever. But let's say that he was going to nationalise it? In the conversation he had with the students, he claimed that he wanted to nationalise because oil prices were low. Since that conversation, they've climbed to record levels (long before the Libyan crisis). Are you dumb enough to think he'd still want to nationalise? And what about a little thing known as OPEC. Try reading up on it. OPEC sets the oil price. Not an individual government. Even if Gaddafi nationalised, he would not have the power to put up oil prices. Or do you think that a tyrant whose oil exports were 3 percent globally could control OPEC's monetary policy?

I love the way you say "get a better deal for his people". He's sat there with billions of dollars in international banks and with gold reserves under his personal control for 40 years and has given the Libyan people what? A river. Man, you make me laugh.

It is obvious that you are mentally ill, you know why?  Only a mentally ill person would continue to track a person who has gone out of their way to ignore them all over a discussion forum.

It looks like you havent yet come to terms with the public humiliation i have continuously subjected you to on NL and this is your own weak way of trying to get your own back, how clever of you.

Well, heres the thing bas.tard no matter how hard you try, you will never have the intellectual ability to win any argument with me - you know why because you are not smart enough, smart people know when to give up, but obviously that doesnt apply to you, i enjoy intelligent debate and i will not compromise my sanity by lowering myself to engage in a debate with you because of your extreme mental limitations.

Remember a few days ago i told you that you were a niggerized african, an african who looks black on the outside but internally is consumed with self hatred and wishes for nothing more than to wake up one morning and see a white face looking back at them in the mirror , this is  why your thinking ability is upside down, you are incapable of thinking and reasoning like an intelligent black man therefore it will be foolish of me to even attempt to engage with you, as i said in my last post to you i would have a better chance of reviving a corpse than being able to awaken you from your semi conscious state.

It seems as if i have permanently damaged your fragile ego hence your desperate need to keep stalking me , however i would like to say this - and i will highlight it and put in big capital letters so that this time it sinks into your skull:


YOU HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER BY WAY OF INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION BECAUSE OF YOUR RET.ARDED MENTAL STATE, THEREFORE I ASK YOU AGAIN, STOP STALKING AND PESTERING ME I AM NOT INTERESTED IN DEBATING WITH AN ADULT MAN WHO HAS LEARNING DIFFICULTIES.

thank you

2muchlogic:
With all due respect i think you mistook my generic answer the wrong way, management encompasses many different disciplines finance, technology, economics, warfare etc and africans have failed to manage their county's properly! 
Gadaffi did not modernize Libya - give me a break!!!! And his GDP per capita was high due to his small population of around 5 million people around 50% of the population of Lagos state and yet his country has a land mass nearly double the size of Nigeria.  Why would he have $70 billion plus, invested in the west? after 42 years ruling a country with a single language and all of those resources he has seriously under performed.  Surely, you will admit that a nation with africa's largest oil deposits coupled with one of Africa's smallest populations has been seriously mismanaged.  However it dose not give the west the right to bomb.

How about the great man made river that he built which supplies pipeborne water to the whole of libya, he built this without borrowing a penny from the West, this river is also used to irrigate the land in order to enable libyans grow their own food instead of relying on foreign imports,  the nigerian govt cant even provided constant electricity supply despite the billions it makes from oil revenues,

most people seem to forget that libya is just recovering from 12 years of economic sanctions from the west, however as soon as the sanctions were lifted gadaffi started major infrastructure projects in the country, thats why you had so many migrant workers in libya workign on constructions sites, many of them from sub saharan countries including nigeria.

Also the average libyan has a home and a car and isnt starving, libyans had no need to leave their country to work in europe or america because they were provided for in their own country, the true indicator of how well a country is doing is by looking at the condition of its citizens, nigria is an oil rich nation but its citizens live in grim poverty the rest flee the country for a better life.  If libya was such an undeveloped place you would have had mass emigration of its people just like nigeria.

War is more than bombs, it encompasses economics, technology, information, culture, education and the simplest component weapons. Look at North Korea they have developed Nuclear weapons so why are they still suffering? The west have decided to launch an economic and information war on them instead.

Yes but thats because when the US cant get you militarily they punish you economically, North Korea has nukes therefore the US have isolated and punished them.

They are not my resources  again i will re-iterate my response above: Look at North Korea they have developed Nuclear weapons so why are they still suffering? The west have decided to launch an economic and information war on them instead. Furthermore has Pakistan not developed Nukes? Yet the USA still treat them like you know what.  Nigeria dose not have Nukes and yet its richer than Pakistan and North Korea; you see the USA spend hundreds of billions on weapons every year can these 'developing countries' match that expenditure?  If you think on another axis rather than just being reactive to all the oyinbo moves you will see the real potential of Africa.

nigeria is rich but the wealth is only enjoyed by less than 1% of its people, of what use is the wealth of a nation if the vast majority of its population are forced to live in poverty or leave the country?  in addition the nigerian govt do not even have any real say in the running of their own economy , they are forced by the UK/US to implement economic policies which benefit and enrich multinationals, foreign banks and a few nigerian elites whilst leaving the rest of the population to suffer, why cant nigeria adopt a more socialist or mixed economic policy which provides a safety net for the poor as is the case in the western nations?  The reason is because it is tied into the neo liberal economic model laid down for it by britain and america, this policy ensures that nigeria will remain a supplier of raw materials with no industrial capability, thereby condemning it to the status of a third world nation for life.

Gadaffi on the other hand was not willing to allow the west to dictate to him , in 2009 he was talking about nationalising the entire libyan oil industy thereby cutting out the western oil corporations who had a 49% stake in it  in order to have more control over oil prices in order to get a better deal for his people, this is the reason that the west have attacked him. Do you think any nigerian leader would have had the guts to demand a better deal from western oil companies operating in nigeria?  the nigerian govt are all cowards and they are running scared - they do as they are told and are merely happy to let the west do what they like in our country as long as they are able to keep skimming off the profits.

my version is that Quattara is backed and armed by the west to replace Gbagbo

true, the west fight, with computers and dropping bombs from 10,000+ miles in the sky; the answer is simple guerilla warfare - tell me the last time any western power won a guerilla war? They always loose when it comes to real war, then a new president will say the last was wrong and pull the troops out.    Its like a destructive merry go round.

The real waking up needs to be in terms of how we think and culture - we need a cultural revolution.

I agree with you Ouattara is an IMF puppet who has been forced on the ivorien people, at the moment we have our own puppet Jonathan, i wonder whether the nigerian electorate will be able to get him out though or whether PDP will do all they can to keep him there, lets wait and see.

I agree that a cultural revolution is needed in africa though.

buzugee:
yeah i had a rude awakening in dusseldorf germany. i went to a restaurant and they wouldnt serve me. of course this was the nineties. i had to slink out of that restaurant in shame after sitting for 30 minutes after everyone around me got served including all those who came after me. then it sunk it, dude they dont serve black people in germany so i skedaddled and never came back.

wow, sorry to hear that bruv, this is why i have only been to one place in europe - malta, because i feel if i have to spend my hard earned money its not going to go to a bunch of ungrateful racist crackas.  I hear it is not uncommon for such things to happen in those nasty eastern bloc european countries too where a lot of africans are beaten up and racialy abused,but i suspected  that germany would be like too this as i have relatives who lived there briefly and were unable to get decent jobs while there.  Also blacks in italy and france are treated like crap and are only able to get low paid crap jobs.

Ive always wondered how black people who live outside the UK in europe cope, im not saying the UK is great, the racism here is not open its more institutionalised thereby giving the impression that its a fair country but in places like france, italy and germany its more in your face,as for the former eastern bloc - i hear its a no go area for blacks unless you dont mind being called racist names to your face.

author=2muchlogic link=topic=638180.msg8075978#msg8075978 date=1302210194
I see where you are comming from but the whole of Africa uniting is a pipe dream at present - Nkurumah and Lumumba went to their graves with that dream and Gaddafi was the last leader pushing for it - notice how Gadaffi had the picture of those two African legends behind him when he made speeches?

lumumba was betrayed by his own people and assassinated by the CIA, Nkrumah was toppled by the CIA, we are not a united people that is why its so easy for the whites to infiltrate, divide and conquer us, there are so many among us who will sell their own mothers for a few pieces of silver.

I believe that what Africa needs now is good management, but the leaders are hopelessly devoid of any kind of ideology that will lead to prosperity.  Look at Nigeria today, their destiny lies in the hands of a former brutal ex dictator 68 years young and a pastor,  a former policeman who is loyal to Godfathers or the incumbent who is sleep walking when he's at his best.

good management will not stop the west from dropping 120 tomahawk missiles on your country if you fail to allow them in to pillage and plunder your natural resources. gadaffi modernised his nation and uplifted his people, he increased their standard of living and to date libyan people enjoy the highest standard of living in africa and yet  look at what the west is doing to the country.  the only way to repel such an attack is to have a well developed military with nuclear weapons.

If each country is well managed the respect and unity will come naturally with time.

no it wont, britain and america are bankrupt - they need your oil and mineral resources to prevent their economies from going under, they will bomb you into submission if you refuse to allow them in to ra.pe and plunder you.
the only way out is military might -  if you cant defend yourself from military attack you are toast.

Its so funnny [b]PEACE[/b]keepers attack Ivorians   what kind of PEACE is that?? The west are taking double standards and imperialism to a new level; whilst the world watches they blantantly violate all the rules they created themselves  

the idea is to bring the ivoriens in to line, they are unable to defend themselve and that is why they have been invaded and bombed into submission by the UN/France.

Don't forget that about 10 years ago the British did the same thing in Sierria Leone, the Nigerian troops did all the hard fighting and DYING.  The world was harking on about how toothless the AU was despite Nigeria's efforts so Obasanjo at the time asked the EU for Logistical help to finish off the job - but they refused.  Eventually the British came in to finish off the job captured Foday Sankoh and took all the Glory.  Looks like in 2011 Gbagbo is playing Foday Sankoh and Sakozy is playing Blair.  :-

you have to understand that ECOMOG is a army of african pawns used by european nations to fight wars that the europeans do not want to fight, the europeans have figured out that africans and their  leaders are so st.upid that they think its okay for their troops to go and die in order to ensure that the europeans continue to be allowed to plunder africa's natural resources.

the worst part of this set up is that the europeans dont even want to use their own troops to do this dirty work , after all africans lives are worth less and therefore can be used by them to acheive their objectives.

they have been using africans like this  for almost 4 centuries and it appears many of us are yet to wake up.

the fact that there are people on this thread hailing france's intervention in ivory coast should indicate to you that africans are a lost people, second slavery is knocking at the door, perhaps when the chains and shackles are placed around the necks and ankles of these dullards they will then realise that they are about to be re enslaved for another 2 centuries by their european masters.

Gerald Celente - an american social commentator pours scorn on Obama, Cameron and Sarokozy's intervention in Libya


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C--iSaYAO4&NR=1

DeeJay20:
Dude it was all a plan, A so called Black President means that his puppert masters can go in
and Bomb African Countries at will, Lord Help us,

Deejay my man how you dey, have you listened to this guy, dr lee warren - he's an african american social commentator - very very knowledgeable and on point on every issue -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a--NEEU60uI&feature=related

isale - how's it going ?  have you heard of this african american guy Dr Lee Warren? He's a social commentator, here's a link on his views on libya:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a--NEEU60uI&feature=related

i think he's very very on point: