₦airaland Forum

iamdrfresh:
I'm an agnostic... I'll come up with why I became one in latter articles but let's reason this together for now.

Growing up as a kid was much fun and on Sundays, extra fun for people like me who were always stuck at home thruout the week.

We were made to understand from that time how devil is the bad guy; how he wants no good thing for us and how he wants us to end up with him in hell... This story I have always believed 100% until a point in my life when I started thinking logically about these things myself

Back to the topic- is God the devil??

Let's to back to the time before Man was created.
God created the angels and He gave them choice - that's the first temptation right there
Devil, being just a victim, took the bait

Fast forward to when he created man into the garden of Eden. He placed d tree of good and evil in the garden( that's another temptation right there)

Also, the devil prolly having nothing to lose again was tempted into deceiving Eve

Eve looked at the tree and saw that it was attractive, she fell for the temptation too

Adam, prolly bcuz he loved his wife(which he never asked for until his rib was stolen while he was sleeping) decided to eat of the fruit too despite knowing the repercussion.

You might be thinking rn "why is this guy muddling things up?? These were never God's intention.."
Well maybe!! But for someone who is the alpha and omega, it'd be a sham if he didn't see this coming.
But since the Bible says "we're created for his pleasure" , maybe we're just characters in his life video game...


I could go on and on with few other examples but I know NLders don't appreciate epistle.

You still wondering who the real tempter is??
For me, I wouldn't say the devil cuz it seems dude was just a victim like everyone else is

CC
OAM4J
LALASTICLALA
FYNESTBOI
mynd44

damosky12:
Laughable! Jesus is not just called son of the Most High. He is extremely incomparable to the "children of the Most High" described in Psalm 82:6. He is CLEARLY called the Most High Himself... Remove your Kantian spectacle and see...

John 1:1-3
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

A human "child of the Most High" coexisted with God at the BEGINNING?

[2]The same was in the beginning with God.
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

A human "child of the Most High" created all things that are?
Moses calls He who created all things God. John says it is the Word.... It shouldn't be confusing that when John says the Word was God, he meant it.
The context is clear. It only takes dishonesty to twist things out of context.




As I showed above, The Word coexisted with God in the beginning (John 1:1-2), the Word created all things (verse 3), the Word contains is responsible for life and light (verse 4-5)... It becomes clear that when John said THE WORD WAS GOD, he meant Jesus really is the Most High...

Actually, does it not take a level of dishonesty to compare this Word to the context of Psalm 82:6

The contexts speak for themselves... THE WORD (that became Jesus) is GOD himself.

Why are you going back na?

Jesus knew what He was saying when He chose the Words "I AM". He clearly meant it. He is God, the same God if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He knew what he meant. Even His audience understood him...

John 8:58-59
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[59] Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.


If these ancients understood him clearly that they were ready to lynch him, why should you doggedly stick to your ignorance?


The context is lucidly clear, read it in full...

John 8:56-58

[56]Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

[57]Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.


It takes either dogged ignorance or self deceit to try to twist this...


For a parting, its not cheer, it is sheer .




Take the truth wholesale and be better for it.

alBHAGDADI:
Did the verse speaking about Abraham and Isaac being his only begotten son ever mention Sarah? I wonder how you concluded that God was speaking of the son produced by Abraham and Sarah . Moreover, God never canceled Ishmael from being Abraham's son, so it could have been him. But why it can't be mistaken for Ishmael is because he shares no special relationship with Abraham in the case of being the promised child.

Look at the cunning way you threw away the Biblical meaning of only begotten son.

alBHAGDADI:
Dont be in a hurry to run away from the powerful verses because you can't explain them. And also, the quote you are replying to isn't talking about begotten. So, don't try to use that to derail or escape.

Now, If you say God doesn't share His glory, then can you explain each of the verses below? Don't run away this time.

JW have been rambling on thus thread on how God doesn't share His glory; they've made that as a point to say Jesus is not God. They quote Isaiah as seen below.

Isaiah 42:8 King James Version (KJV)
I am the LORD : that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Clearly, God said He will not GIVE His glory to another. But below is Jesus talking.

“The Father…has GIVEN all judgment to the Son so that
all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father” (Jn. 5:22-23).

Peter made the same point:

“Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. TO HIM BE THE GLORY, both now and to the day of eternity . Amen” (2 Pet. 3:18).

“I have sworn by Myself…that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance” (Is. 45:23).

“That at the name of Jesus every knee will bow…every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…” (Phil. 2:10)

“I, even I, am the Lord; and there is no savior besides Me” (Is. 43:11).

“..by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ ” (2 Pet. 1:1).

“Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock ? I know of none” (Is. 44:8

“All drank the same spiritual drink [in the wilderness], for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them, and the rock was Christ ” (1 Cor. 10:4).

“God said to Moses…say to the sons of Israel, ‘ I AM has sent me to you ’” (Ex. 3:14).

“Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM ’” (Jn. 8:58).

“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘ I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me’” (Is. 44:6).

“I am the first and the last, and the living One, and I was dead, and behold I am alive forevermore” (Rev. 1:17-18).

Please, tell us why Jesus is using and being ascribed titles which only belongs to God?

damosky12:
I have said before... CONTEXT is very important in Bible interpretation...


Psalms 82:6
[6]I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.



Now, who are those David calls "gods" here? Are they, not the same people referred to as "children of the MOST high". The reason why they are gods is because they are CHILDREN of the MOST HIGH, God Himself.



For some understanding, see the verse 1,
Psalms 82:1
[1]God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

GOD is distinct from gods. The context is clear!

Children of God can be called gods BUT not God Himself. God, the most high is always distinct throughout scriptures.

It is this God that became flesh, Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

John 1:1,14
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[14]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..

alBHAGDADI:
Have you been following the discussion or you jumped on the tail end of it? Scroll up to see where I replied him on his immortal soul question.

damosky12:
Laughable... This is English language... Its like saying "I was with you in the beginning of the class...". Does that by any means infer that I am no longer with you?

You expected it to have said, " in the beginning IS the Word, and the Word IS with God and the Word IS God"


The translation chose past tense articles because it addressed the beginning of time.






In your own Bible, people served as God Are you doing a comedy here? Moses served as God?

Stop fusing things up chairman. God said HE made Moses a god to pharaoh ... By this, God CLEARLY means he (Moses) will represent HIM before pharaoh. Moses did not "serve" as God. He served God.

Jesus didn't serve as God. HE IS GOD.
See what John says of the Word, Jesus:
John 1:3
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Could this ever apply to Moses or any man? The same description for God describes Jesus...




When exactly did Jesus stop being God? When did he retire from His ONENESS with God?

John 17:22
[22]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Can you show me when Jesus announced His retirement from divinity from the Bible?

alBHAGDADI:
@damosky12

JW have been rambling on thus thread on how God doesn't share His glory; they've made that as a point to say Jesus is not God. They quote Isaiah as seen below.


Isaiah 42:8 King James Version (KJV)
I am the LORD : that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Clearly, God said He will not GIVE His glory to another. But below is Jesus talking.

“The Father…has GIVEN all judgment to the Son so that
all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father” (Jn. 5:22-23).

Peter made the same point:

“Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. TO HIM BE THE GLORY, both now and to the day of eternity . Amen” (2 Pet. 3:18).

“I have sworn by Myself…that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance” (Is. 45:23).

“That at the name of Jesus every knee will bow…every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…” (Phil. 2:10)

“I, even I, am the Lord; and there is no savior besides Me” (Is. 43:11).

“..by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ ” (2 Pet. 1:1).

“Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock ? I know of none” (Is. 44:.

“All drank the same spiritual drink [in the wilderness], for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them, and the rock was Christ ” (1 Cor. 10:4).

“God said to Moses…say to the sons of Israel, ‘ I AM has sent me to you ’” (Ex. 3:14).

“Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM ’” (Jn. 8:58).

“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘ I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me’” (Is. 44:6).

“I am the first and the last, and the living One, and I was dead, and behold I am alive forevermore” (Rev. 1:17-18).

Can OneJ Tatime barristter07 jozzy4 refute this?

damosky12:
What is this one saying.... Back to the main issue.
John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Just also as you equally admitted to Jesus being 'at one point', God.

WHEN DID HE STOP BEING GOD

Besides, tell me you are referring to the same Jesus that said:
John 8:58
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 17:22
[22]...that they may be one, even as we are one:

alBHAGDADI:
Don't you get it? The fact that the word begotten was used doesn't mean it was referring to giving birth. Yes, Isaac was giving birth to by Abraham, but the word begotten was used to show his unique relationship with Abraham which Ishmael lacked. He became a begotten son because of the relationship he had with Abraham.

Jesus was not begotten by God in the sense of giving birth to, but is the begotten son of God because of the relationship he has with God.

Understand the meaning of the word begotten, then we can talk.

alBHAGDADI:
You are a confused being. I thought after I explained the meaning of the word Begotten, you would have accepted without doubt. I'm surprised that you accepted but turned around to show you didn't accept it.

You said Isaac is no different from the other sons Abraham had, Likewise Jesus not different from the other sons you allege God has. If you had carefully read how I explained the meaning of the word Begotten, you would have seen that it connotes to any child that has a unique relationship with his father. That makes Jesus and Isaac far above every other child their father has. The word has nothing to do with literally giving birth. Go back and read my post again to understand.

damosky12:
I have said before... CONTEXT is very important in Bible interpretation...


Psalms 82:6
[6]I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Now, who are those David calls "gods" here? Are they, not the same people referred to as "children of the MOST high". The reason why they are gods is because they are CHILDREN of the MOST HIGH, God Himself.


For some understanding, see the verse 1,
Psalms 82:1
[1]God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

GOD is distinct from gods. The context is clear!

Children of God can be called gods BUT not God Himself. God, the most high is always distinct throughout scriptures.

It is this God that became flesh, Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

John 1:1,14
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[14]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..

alBHAGDADI:
How many of the humans does He share His glory with?

alBHAGDADI:
How many of the humans does He share His glory with?

alBHAGDADI:
How many of the humans does He share His glory with?

alBHAGDADI:
How many of the humans does He share His glory with?

alBHAGDADI:
You clearly think the word BEGOTTEN as used in John 3:16 is talking about literal birth? Maybe that's why you JW believe he was created. Rather, that word is a Greek word monogenes which is actually talking about the unique relationship a child has with his father, not literal or physical birth or begetting itself.

Consider when God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac as an offering. God says to Abraham, “Take your son, your only [monogenes] son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you” (Gen. 22:2). Of course, before Abraham can carry out this command, God stops Abraham and says, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only [monogenes] son, from me” (Gen. 22:12).

The author of Hebrews picks up on this expression and writes,

Hebrews 11:17-19
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

We know that Isaac wasn’t literally Abraham’s only begotten son. Isaac was the second son. Ishmael was Abraham’s first-born son. If you understand monogenes as a literal begetting, then God clearly got His facts wrong. However, if you understand monogenes as a unique, one-of-a-kind relationship, then God can accurately describe Isaac his “only” or “only begotten” son. Isaac was the only son of the covenant.

Likewise, Jesus is God’s unique, one-of-a-kind Son. You can call him the “only begotten” Son if you like, but remember, this word isn’t about procreation. It’s about a unique relationship between the Father and Son.

alBHAGDADI:
Look at the way you are trying to explain away all the verses I posted to prove the Trinity. I thought you said Yahweh doesn't share his glory or anything. I just showed you the many things Yahweh shares with Jesus. Jesus even says ''I and my Father are one''. (John 10:30).

John 17:21
that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 16:15
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

With all this verses and more, you still claim Jesus is not God which is the office of the Trinity consisting of Yahweh, Jesus the son and the Holy Spirit. You and your JW claim he was an angel who got elevated. Where is that written in the entire Bible?

damosky12:
Though I don't find this relevant to my reply..

Try and cut down on heresy a bit.... You probably never heard that CONTEXT is the king of Bible interpretation.

If you understood the context in which "god" was used in Exodus 7:1, you wouldn't try to make a mountain out of such an hill. No sane and honest Bible interpreter will mistakingly think that portion means Moses is equal with God. Why? The context is lucid! God said to Moses: "I HAVE MADE YOU A GOD BEFORE PHARAOH"...

The usage of "god" shouldn't confuse any sane human being here. HOWEVER, see this:

John 1:1
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He existed with God at the beginning. No wonder Jesus could say:

John 8:58
[58]Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 17:21-22
[21]That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[22]And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:


Jesus is God in human flesh. Jesus is God becoming a man.

alBHAGDADI:
Exactly why I asked earlier that "why do you JW say man seizes to exist when he dies?". Here you are admiting that the soul never dies. So where does it go after the body dies? We know Jesus went to hell, which you guys don't believe in. So, where did his immortal soul go after death?

I think we should also ask: How many Nigerian guys know how to chat ?

Some guys just ask question upon question

How was your day ? She will say " Fyn " , what do you eat ? " Rice and on and on , just asking questions . so at the end she will get bored and tired.


True some ladies are boring, but if you as a man also step up your conversation skills , at times even a boring girl can be very active typing epistles .

What about intro to chats ?

All this " Hi " " Hello " ' Hi Babe" are turnoff for many girls, beside even me as a guy don't find it interesting.

Instead of Hi or hello. Why not start by something unusual, sometimes you can just give a comment on something she posted on status, And take it from there. And if you want to chat her directly. Be unpredictable.

" anyone here " ?

" Can i come in ?"

Example:

- Why is your door locked ... Are u online ?

Lol, am here

- Ohhh, watching TV?

Not really

- I thought u were busy watching movie ni

Lol, no

- I don't really like movies though, you ?

I do

- really ? But I don't find them interesting, execially Nigerian Movie

Lol, some of them are fine

- give example?

She mentioned one

- hmmm, what's it all about

Many will Starr writing epistle ( area of interest)

Etc

Combine fun with your intro, makes some feel free with you.

I once have a girl who is always Lol, Lol

So one day I changed approach towards her, and come and see how she was typing epistles,, no more one word replies .

salvation101:
i beg ur pardon. We're u expecting him to accept that he is JW after all he had done? He purposely created this account to constitute nuisance he just might be here with another muniker

Riofidelio:
I've told her that she can ONLY experience exchange of insults and curses when dealing with amateur Christians. But she said she's enjoying every bit of it, even taking permission from these guys before going to bed so i assume they're getting along! Until she now wants to drag all witnesses into it proudly saying she's having a show of shame with JWs! She thought Jehovah's witnesses are robots without feelings so she can be messing around without seeing anyone who has REAL feelings. Let her know that we're not robots or zombies as the disfellowshiped taught her, it's right time she learn that we're trying REALLY HARD to put away the old personality and working DAY and NIGHT to put on the new personality, of course we're not born with it. We're Adams offsprings with Human Rights to express our feelings towards those who ASKED FOR IT!

salvation101:
good to know sir but virtually all Jw here have used vulgar speeches. I think they should be investigated. U can go through the thread from the beginning to see how it all started

unbitchable:
Sir, thanks a lot for your concern..

unbitchable:
Henceforth, Let my mention depart from your mouth. Delete my moniker off your memory.

kolawoleibukun1:
I am a liberal Christian. I have no affiliation to any religion. Just believe in the Bible and that is what takes me to God above. Religion has done more harm than good in our society and I am anti-religion. The word above any religion for me. I free sheeples and I drag them out of bondage. I prefer the Bible to word of men.
I do not fight against religion but I fight against people who control the minds of their faithfuls and exploit them.

nutarious:
Actually, Salvation101, I dont expect you to go down that line, if it were real life, you could have be consistent with the Stalking Complain. But online stalking ain't mean anything to me because your identity is secure.


I get it now, JW is a group or Organisation with a Believe System and Mind Set, this would mean they are different from other believers, its eye opening to be on this thread.

In a Pentecostal setting, if you wish you could change church from one denomination to another still be able to practise your Faith, if Denomination A is not aligning with what you believe or you saw error you could look for a proper One by switching. You could also be in two different churches like myself or might not even join one and still be Close to your God.

But, for the First time am opportune to see what JW as an Organisation is, Salvation101 spoke comparatively, Analysing Scripture for Scripture and we are all getting well before other members of the Group or Organization started Attacking her, it was slow and steady and it was continuous. Gradually the whole good start went into Mud and later many Member were coming out to play the Victim card.


I waited and waited wishing someone will clear my doubt, Nobody did. No member scolded the other member for insult. I notice that Kola started the Dirty Talk, after the insults have already been introduced, then Kola started that talk that got Salvation101 to where she is, I Still Waited, Nobody, I mean Nobody scolded him, for me that's important. Very important.


I concluded that this your Faith or Believe System is about Winning especially Scripturally.

This Faith is not based on been a better person, something normal Education in Schools can teach. It's about a Group and how they must Uphold the Norms, its embarrassing that this is not really based on God nor Righteousness but based on a School of Thought and how well they were discipled to defend their stand.



I won't use this against Other JW that I meet outside , I will hope again that they clear this doubt of mine, I hope they can.

But as for most of you following earlier till Now I Say Shame on You especially if there are Females among you, your Faith is unbelievably hypocritical. Nothing to gain from the Thread absolutely Gabbage. Next time don't just do this, nairaland is read all over the Whole World and you come here to showcase the worst form of embarrassing character for People professing Faith, you are not different from Muslims.

My dear Salvation101, I don't support you on the Vulgar words, that ain't you. You are better than that, you err in that part and I ask you, if you take your Birth and a mentally ill patient carry your Towels , will you run after him. Nope. We discussed this at Office with my Collegues who has joined me in Following this on my PC. I can say, Atheist are well behaved than Members of JW on this Forum. But I believe maybe this won't define JW, I will wait till I meet others to reach my conclusion.

I hate Men who has no respect for Motherhood.

kolawoleibukun1:
una even day folo this ediort day reason like say she be person. she called me peacefulllove, wumifun, removetheturb, unbitchabke rio and many more. what do i have to prove to a slut? who cares about ashewo for t society? no one! you day ask am to prove abi u go blast that minion and drag her to where she belongs.
old brothelite

salvation101:
My sister, dis is not the first thread and if you go through their threads, if dey ain't winning an argument dey resort to intimidation. If you go through the "is Jesus God?" thread you will see how many people they silenced but because I wasn't giving up dey resorted to intimidation. I couldn't comment peacefully on any thread without unbitchable stalking me. I was wondering where we met cos he wasn't following my profile but he was following me. Den wen i came on this thread and I talked about their past, errors of their founder and corrected the distortion of facts and history dey were telling, Rio went mad and called me oponu Olodo. I waited to see if removetheturban( who I tot was a friend cos we were both following each other) would call him to order, he instead took sides with him and ended up deactivating his account den suddenly kolawoleibukun1 showed up. This people are like a cult and the whole world needs to be aware of their evil. I know I erred. Even if I stop, those two demons will follow me to any thread I go so I have dedicated this account for anti JW. If dey spoilt my reputation as an individual I will spoil theirs as an organization.

salvation101:
Wow, I love nairaland. Nairaland remembers here is the first appearance of the JW dolt called Kolawoleibukun. He came in and started raining insults immediately. He is a jehova withness and my truth got him mad like the pharisees who gnash Ed at Jesus.
https://www.nairaland.com/3833612/christian-need-see/6

TheUpsetGirl1:
..... and in this era no man will marry you without having sex with you before the marriage