₦airaland Forum

ekt_bear

Perhaps. But then it is left to those governors I mentioned to do a bit of wooing.

Find out what "offer" Ghana made for this factory in Techiman and what offer Togo will likely make, and see whether you can match or beat it.

^^@ekt_bear - What "offer" do you think they made to the savvy Indian business man? It is not a secret that Nigeria is a rough and business unfriendly place but for cowboys and professional cheats. Please see the post below by[b] Gbawe[/b] for a clearer insight about the Nigerian condition despite our so much touted Potentials. Business men bring changes but the Governors/Administrators [/b]must establish the enabling environment for serious honest investors (local or foreign). Nigeria is an extremely high cost place to do business in. Try to find out about the experience of the "famous" Zimbabwe white farmers/investors in Nigeria(Kwara state). They are not finding the experience exactly as they hoped. Our banks are uncreative, lazy and very unhelpful for agric business besides our almost non existent infra-structure compared to Zimbabwe eats up their primary capital as they have to literarily install electricity, build or find water supplies and even roads etc.

[b]Gbawe

These days, it is natural for most businessmen who have choices. I would avoid Nigeria too if I am not Nigerian. In fact, I have actually revised some of my plans for Nigeria. I have not arrived at this point through hearsay. I speak from actual experience. My brother , what my eyes has seen trying to do business in Nigeria I cannot even begin to tell you. At the end of it, you even feel extremely humiliated, frustrated and angry. This is why it is mainly insensitive thugs, crooks and hardened individuals who get on in Nigeria currently  .

The tragedy is that very few can match our potentials to attract investment if well harnessed but grotesque corruption, everywhere, means that everyone and everything is looked upon as entities to be extorted rather than potential wealth/job creators to be respected and assisted as much as possible. One of the way forward is for Governors to be up and doing as far as attracting investors. The Governors must identify potential growth areas, seek out directly suitable investors and engage them directly.

[b]Onlytruth[[/b]quote] Ndigbo must today -not tomorrow - regain themselves and re-assert their corporate personality in our multi-ethnic Federation or diffuse into isolated individual entities in the anonymity of Nigeria's multitude[quote][/quote]@^^ Does the above quote not sound very hollow in the light of the sacking of so called non-indigene staff spat between Abia state and Imo state ?.  A house divided cannot stand. A people without vision, foresight and long range creative thinking plans rarely make it to the so called "promised" land. The current so called Igbo leadership are too short term [/b]oriented in thinking and lacking genuine creative problem solving abilities. They are too ego centric and easily pliable and dazzled by gimmicks by anyone and sundry. They seem to be quick to make grand standing statements without well thought out ideas and plans for viable, implementable actions. Please think and review the implications of the spat between Abia / Imo and perhaps other Igbo states like Ebonyi too. The situation demands serious thinking and action plan before looking outwards to projects like the [b]Centre where the general feeling of antipathy against the Igbo is enormous and those representing the various Igbo communities at the Centre are not exactly people of vision or emotional attachment to their people. It's as serious as War!

@Gbawe

No Government will be perfect but for Nigeria to make progress in reversing the culture of impunity and casual corruption, then the Government of the day must have a high number of members with undoubted integrity.

@^^ That sounds very optimistic/hopeful without our active purposeful intervention/mediation by everyone. Shamelessness and lack of accountability thrives in an atmosphere of collective alienation and feeling anonymous from the rest of us but your immediate village. It's akin to a "degenerate" from the hinterland living in Lagos or Abuja. Anything goes because of the relative anonymous atmosphere of the city. People behave badly, dirty and shameless in places that they feel no emotional connection with let alone a country like Nigeria where most "citizens" are psychically and emotionally disconnected/undecided about. Patriotism and doing the right thing because of a nebulous expectation of good character anchored on a sense of shame rarely happens. It becomes  a jungle. A majority of us instinctively support and protect our "Corrupt" politicians/power elites unquestionably because they're from my village/ethnicity. Visionary, Purposeful, and Determined Leadership is the key coupled with uncompromising effective judicial system. We cannot hope that individual integrity by a few good people will solve our myriad of problems. I love your general sense of optimism my brother. Thank you.

cap28

as long as africom is allowed to locate its bases on the african continent it will be very difficult for any african nation to obtain positive change.

^^ hi cap28, the French have many established bases all over Africa - from Djibouti- Central-Africa and ofcourse as usual in West-Africa. The Americans are trying very hard to muscle in but they have to learn some lessons from the old colonials who perhaps don't have the resources the USA have, nevertheless it does not negate their hold on Africa because we have no cohesive and aware leadership anywhere but Quadaffi during his reign hence the determination to get rid of him. Our condition is dire and sad indeed.

@op
What will the fine for home based players be if they default given that they don't earn enough like the overseas players ? I hope the so called fine is standardised and not an arbitrarily concocted rule informed by greed or rip-off of a foreign based player by inept administrators of Nigerian football.

MsDarkSkin

@ the conversation above me and the video posted >>> VEERY interesting. . .
and yes NoLongTing, the first lady of cameroon IS a hawt mess!

^^ Jamrican how do you do? What do you find veery interesting ? I guess you get my drift afterall . Have a good day sister.

daroz

By the way @Cheikh, are u a male or female

^^ Well. I quite sympathise with you because like many Nigerians some have become victims of the culture which does not tolerate nor accept dissent from a child no matter how old you are . I guess you are from the South West or Edo, so I quite understand the pressure and difficulty in trying to dissent from parental diktats. Nevertheless you should have tried a little harder . i hope you do not take my opinion as gospel or personal please Have a good day .

cheikh is male name in Senegal.

daroz

Just this afternoon I was forced to break up a nine months serious relationship with a girl I luv so much, just because my dad wont let me marry her cos she is not the same tribe with me.

^^ I don't believe the so called serious relationship was that serious let alone you actually loving the girl so much . It's obvious that you are immature despite 'cultural' barriers and parental objections to such unions which you were fully aware of before you entered a nine months old relationship. What were you thinking, knowing fully well that you do not have the balls/guts to stand your ground to parental disapproval or not? It's shocking to read your lame excuse- "just because my Dad wont let me marry because she's not the same tribe with me". Truthfully, you give men from whatever your ethnic background is a bad name/image with that kind of thinking and weakness(character) .

Gylae

I'm an Igbo man and the truth is my children cannot and will not marry from the north. Neither will they marry from the west. Take it or leave it. Call me tribalist if you must.

Besides calling yourself a "tribalist", you have not given any [b]plausible [/b]reasons maybe stereotypical or otherwise you'll not want your children to marry from the North or West. How are you going to explain your very narrow minded opinion to your children?. Children grow up and form their own opinions and rarely play according to your scripts especially if they are well adjusted/rounded Igbo citizens- Independent minded and self assured according to Igbo culture. You do not have control over their life choices let alone desires. You can hold on to your prejudices as usual because it's comforting to your ego to believe in myths and stereotypes. Deliberate ignorance is truly sinful and not excusable. It's a choice you've made.

@cap28
How do you do? Well, Africa has been ceded to the colonial masters of Britain and France to take care of since only they know our gullible lazy people more than we know of ourselves hence the prime movers for invasion of Libya are the usual Primary colonials(France and Britain) with "hapless" USA in tow. Cameroons is just another quasi-colonial territory. You only need to meet so called Francophone Cameroonians to appreciate the enormity of the problem with Cameroons and the so called democracy Cameroonian style. It's no different from Nigeria except that Nigerians have managed to believe their own hype and delusions. America is unlikely to interfere in a French "territory" no matter the temptation oil or not. France is a very aggressive colonialist and do not suffer fools gladly. Their sphere of direct influence rarely step out of line except if you are Proud Haitians, Guinea Conakry(Sekou Toure) and Vietnamese. They are already trying to woo Kagame back to the fold if only he'll play according to the script. Sincerely, I feel for the Cameroonians. After Nigeria they have the most actual ethnic diversity despite her small population. Nevermind Nigerians thinking that Indonasia, and India have more diversity than Papua New Guinea let alone Cameroons. I understand and appreciate your drift especially the Congress man's thoughts and also using his adopted Ethiopian daughter to buttress his point on so called "sub-Saharan" Africa and the Colonials(France and Britain) and the hapless Ivoriens who are equally lost like the over dressed, tie / bow-tie and badly fitting suits and their women no different from their so called First lady. Change is unlikely until the Franco-phone side decide so or perhaps providence intervenes like in Abacha/Nigeria. They are very apathetic and lazy like most tropical Africans who condone and support mediocrity and foolishness in the name of ethnicity.

Akhwat Akwop sounds like a South Sudan name or word. It's amazing, that at last the usually passive, lazy and feckless so called christians are waking up to their own responsibility.

@owobokiri

To me as a Nigerian, this is not even about Biafra or about the Igbos. Its about decency! What kind of personalities would i like my daughter to emulate as a young Nigerian? Murtalas name and face is everywhere but he did some of the most despicable things ever to be done in that country. In Asaba, he entered the city, then asked the people to come out and support his army, they didnt refuse since the so-called Biafran soldiers have left. Then he called all the males out at the market square fooling them to think a meeting was going to be held to iron out issues. These were poor village men who knew nothing about the war, who might not have seen Nzeogwu before. Murtala had ALL of them in attendance surrounded, taken to a nearby bush and slaughtered!!! ALL OF THEM. Thousands of civilians in an already taken city!!! So when you see folks from Asaba today, they are descendants of those who didnt attend Murtalas "meeting". If their fathers attended that gorry meeting, some of these Asaba people will not be here today simply because Nzeogwu came from a nearby village. This is the kind of person some of you support while calling for change in Nigeria. Shyte happens , right? It is sick.

^^^^ I admire your dispassionate opinions and those of PhysicsQED as very insightful about our "dear" country. The above history is actually an eye witness account of the events. Murtala was present in Asaba and actually addressed the crowd of people who unwittingly participated in the welcoming dance and meeting of death.
Nigerian Army and the Police force have a long history of massacre of civilians with impunity. Boko Haram have demonstrated that killing of captured unarmed persons cannot be tolerated hence some of their reactions/actions. ODI, Zaki Biam, Gbaramutu, Jos, captured Niger Delta volunteers, Apo killings etc come to mind. The only difference is the Bornu based Boko Haram have the guts and organisation to act and avenge for their losses unlike their southern based victims of Nigerian Army massacres and Police extra-judicial killings. Nigeria suffers from selective amnesia and a lack of sense of history. We are permanently in flux and denial hence our refusal to acknowledge let alone review our history as to have a true national conversation. Our old soldier president(OBJ) knows a thing or two about our history and the nuances underpinning the Boko haram reactions and capacity, hence his humble private apologies to them. Perception and knowledge of the history of the people is everything. Kanuris have a better knowledge and sense of self and the assurance of their own capacity to revenge. There is no forgiveness in their lexicon or worldview. Ironically, Asaba is usually the place of refuge for so called refugees of northern extraction on the run from retaliatory actions East of the river Niger. In Igbo cosmology strangers and visitors are never harmed but protected at all cost to self as demonstrated by Ojukwu by the safe passage and escort of Northern Nigerians out of the East of the Niger before the war. Everything in Nigeria must have pecuniary value, so despite our collective amnesia and deliberate ignorance, History is of no value to the   "elite" or educationists. Thank you for your contributions.

lastpage

Putting all these together, l will conclude by saying that "the Engineers" are not the problem, our environment is the problem!
What sort of engineering prowess do you expect from a country where the Presidential Villa makes a yearly budget for "GENERATORS"?
We have a govt that pays "lip-service" to technological advancement, that is just the fact and l am not surprised, in a country that is 50yrs old, we just got a first graduate President at 48yrs!
And they are not even "honors" graduates
In a country where the head of the CBN is a graduate of Islamic Banking! (where are the chartered Accountants, the Economists, the Financial Managers, e.t.c ?)
In a country where mediocrity is the order [/b]of the day and round pegs are put in square holes, just because we must abide by "Federal Character and Quota Systems"? (Name one developed Nation that operates on Quota system or Federal Character?)

[b]The system we operate right now is just so rotten we should actually recognize the "ingenuity" of Nigerian Engineers (and students in general) who can survive the constant abuse and deprivation called Nigerian Educational system.
What manner of Engineers can you produce from Universities with empty Laboratories and constant black-outs? Is that the students fault?

Maybe "buzeege" is still too young or too[b] inexperienced to grasp the enormity of the 'rot' and hence his frustration n "Nigerian Engineers" but really, they are not the problem.

[/b]

Gbam!!!^^^ the highlighted

Have you ever wondered why our own rich men (even if they did loot our national treasury) will rather stash their loot in Monaco, Belize or a Swiss bank, rather than "multiply it" by investing in such innovations?

^^ They don't believe enough in the nation let alone trust that their money will be safe despite their exalted positions. You put your money where you have faith and confidence in .

Katsumoto

It was Murtala who sacked permanent secretaries in 1975 without compensation. These career civil servants were made redundant without any pensions to provide for them. The next set of civil servants then decided to keep something for themselves in case they lost their jobs; the corruption epidemic was born.

Gbam!! Personal economic Insecurity begets unpatriotic behaviour.

ndu chucks

Call Murtala visionless but don't blame him for the endemic corruption in Nigeria - that is just too unreasonable and frankly senseless.

I don't think Katsumoto implied that Murtala invented endemic corruption but that he created and accelerated the "climate" of fear and general sense of insecurity about employment. We cannot runaway from understanding how seemingly "nationalistic" decisions by government can have very negative results and ofcourse inimical for social cohesion. We have not recovered from that experience ever since. Corruption previously was practised by a small coterie of savvy politicians and top elite civil servants and never brazenly celebrated let alone displayed as it is the norm nowadays shamelessly . There existed a modicum of "decorum" and "Shame" previously . Corruption was relatively "undemocratic", until later periods when it became "democratised", institutionalised and etched in our collective psyche as natural like pure water. We can all mention names of "Characters" who in their infinite 'wisdom' helped bring Nigeria on her knees(Khaki and Agbada).

ola olabiy

When Shell claimed they had people working for them in this Ministry (Petroleum), you all had doubts.
Remember the leaked cable?

@ola olabiy ^^ Gbam!!! It's amazing how gullible some of our people are. Some people are talking of "Rule of Law" etc in Naija under lucky Joe?

Kodewrita

We can all read I assume. She graduated at 27 and returned in 1993 when she was already 33. The crime is that she supposedly did not get an exemption. Fact is that she was no longer eligible as at the time she returned.

Gbam!! Unfortunately we don't read nor comprehend rules properly hence our confusion.


geosegun

HE/SHE WHO DOES NOT SEE IT WORTHY TO SERVE HIS/HER FATHER LAND [/b]WHEN THINGS WERE NOT ROSY SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN A JUICY APPOINTMENT AT ANY POINT IN TIME. IF PROVED GUILTY, SHE MUST BE RELIEVED OF HER APPOINTMENT IMMEDIATELY.

Are you real? She's from Bayelsa State so she's serving her [b]Father and Motherland . Who else is more deserving to hold that portfolio given the nature of our 'ethnic' based politics in Nigeria? She has a 'right' to claim that portfolio as part of the "peace" settlement for her restive people. The President(Bayelsan) and the Senate are not dumb my friend.

@PureOhio

Seriously, very many young men of early 20s whose parents or families are close friends etc will have issues dating within such close community. They'll be foolhardy to want to date within such close "incestuous" proximity. Who wants unspoken family 'monitoring' wahala etc .? Young Nigerian men are not silly let alone 'stupid' to play around close family circles. They are not ready to engage in the kind of dating adventure a young woman like you/ with close family connections will bring to the table. It's too close for comfort for any "sharp" young man(20s) just out for fun. Women of similar age group  as the young men, are inherently and relatively more 'mature'  than their male contemporaries in the affairs of the heart etc. Men are rarely ever ready for such issues etc. Try to venture outside your close family circle and see a different response. You are fairly grounded in Naija ways anyway, as you've actually lived there. Nigerian men don't discriminate at all only insecure men will place 'pseudo'-cultural barriers before making a move for a fine Babe like you . Take a trip again to Naija and let's see if you'll come back single . Please don't bother about Ghana or anywhere else in Africa but Proudly NAIJA .

tpia@

they were, in the congo.
and they were in west africa to get slaves, nothing more.

@tpia
I accept that at the end of the day they 'traded' in slaves etc but we are talking in relative terms here. If you carefully analyse their presence in Africa, they were [b]less confrontational [/b]until during the wars of liberation in her Africa colonies. Often times, they collaborated or signed some sort of treaties with local Chiefs(Dahomey), Kongo(the queen), Nigeria(Bini) and Badagry, Cameroons(Chiefs) Guinea and Ivory Coast(chiefs) etc. History has so many interpretations or versions, but we know some of our local history is littered with contradictions pertaining to our active participation in the sad episodes. We cannot absolve ourselves from such ugliness. We can only learn and grow from it hopefully, not gloss over it as mere victims.

@Katsumoto
Thank you for your insight on the Portuguese. They also had a treaty with the British for protection against the Spaniards too hence much of their territories were usurped by the British from Africa to Asia. The Portuguese in Brazil and perhaps in her African colony of Angola actively promoted miscegenation in order to "whiten" Brazil hence the peculiar "colour" issues pervasive in Brazil. They have over ten "colour" gradation and descriptions. It's extremely disheartening and sad for those of "pure" African or 'black' coloration despite their huge population. The story of Brazil though interesting to us, but it is extremely painful for our kith and kin in south America. The language barrier has conspired to mask and prevent smooth exchange of information that perhaps might inspire a different consciousness in our people, literally living in slavery never mind the tourist image of the place. I was a little chuffed when Obama came into power and the impact it might have on the psyche of South Americans in relation to their very perverse perception of Africa and black people generally beyond Pele or football. The story of our kith and kin in Latin America is indeed unique in human experience till this day.

kilode?!

Of course other groups did retain some across the Americas. Maybe the Brazil phenomenon is due to the practices of the Portuguese slavers compared with the English and the to an extent the Spanish. The Portuguese were probably the first set of Europeans to trade in African slaves. Maybe they were already over it and therefore went mild when they got to Brazil.

I also think it had something to do with the cultural development of slaves from some parts of Africa, in this case; maybe the Yorubas already had a well developed sense of religion and society which helped them survive the effects of slavery.

@Kilode?! ^^ The Bolded is very on point about Brazil and the Portuguese. The Portuguese were never an aggressive lot like her fellow European journey men. Remember that her initial contact with the Bini Kingdom was relatively respectful and equal hence ambassadors were exchanged etc.
The size of Brazil and the Quilombos or free states or territories controlled by runaway or free slaves was important in infusing relative sense of autonomy and maintaining cultural practices like in Salvadore/Bahia etc. The Language and cultural practices thing is not very clearcut as most people will like to propagate bearing in mind that the gulf of Guinea axis from Togo - Angola have some practices that can be described as very close or identical in practices. In my travels / Brazil and Haiti in particular, I think that some of the influences can be also be attributed to the Kongo/Angola basin e.g.(Capoeira) and even the world famous Rio carnival etc, Benin( R.P) and Togo also not far from modern day Yorubaland can actually legitimately lay claim too.
You and Katsumoto are on point and too much .

VALIDATOR

The solution to Nigeria's political problems might actually be in re-visiting our pre 1914 past.

@VALIDATOR ^^ GBAM!!! Thank you everyone on this Thread I was about giving up on the Nigeria Project . Thank you all.

@morpheus

I repeat "We do not have the right people oriented inspiring governments anywhere in Africa accountable to anybody either. Internal local capacity is lacking.
'Investments' are desirable but our history and local conditions [/b]should inform our decisions for the benefit of our people not just a handful of priviledged government officials etc. It appears bleak really.

In the light of the above statement by me in my earlier post before I saw the "Ethiopian Land Grab" posted by [b]manny4life do you not think that my fears and concerns are not mere Demagoguery to use your phrase?. Do you sincerely believe that those disinherited, disenfranchised landless Ethiopians are being ethnically cleansed because some powerful government officials have "negotiated and perhaps renegotiated" for Development or Progress. Nobody, per se is against "foreign" investments. I am actually more concerned about our internal socio-cultural dynamics and you'll agree that we cannot afford to be mindless and insensitive of our fellow citizens because the so called very "large" groups can literarily wipe them out as it is happening surreptitiously in many parts of Africa via so called "legitimately' negotiated 'development' deals. In other continents perhaps [/b]they have more 'enlightened' humane officials hence the so called 'weak' minorities of Europe, the Americas and much of Asia are thriving. I am rather surprised and puzzled that you mentioned China in this conversation in relation to our Local(Africa) developmental concerns as if both are historically similar even with "evolutionary" progression or "economic theory of life cycle of products". Please, I am not into blame games of the West etc let alone anti this or that. I am anti NGOs/ do-gooders and so called AID. My reasons are personal and not part of this discourse.
My concerns are grounded on the reality of our condition which may [b]outwardly look similar to other places in the world, where we may think that we can graft borrowed 'ideas' or "technology" transfer what ever that means but quite the opposite. We know that if technology transfer was that simple and "transferable" perhaps the story of certain parts of Africa including Nigeria will be different today despite our much vaunted human capital "capacity". Looking inwards to take thorough stock of our condition and capacity does not negate nor preclude looking outwards to acquire further knowledge which must be naturalised anyway, if it is to be useful to the society acquiring it, such as information software etc. Technology and pseudo Economic aspirations/designs on its own cannot solve all of our problems if we do not "actively" and "purposefully" participate in the process bottom up hence my concerns and the Ethiopian experience is a very sad case indeed for the victims of such high mindedness by all knowing "Government" in Africa. We have to be very afraid of our people not just the so called foreign bogeyman. Expecting active mediation or intervention by so called "Stake holders" is rather very 'optimistic' and engaging in intellectual sophistry keeping mind our local Nigerian experience. If you are a member of the large majority ethnic groups then you have nothing to fear let alone concerned about. We should be our brother/sister's keeper or protector. I believe that's what humane democracy should be about in Africa and not simplistic grafting of "economic" ideas inimical to large groups of our people because it was touted be ok elsewhere. The rest of the world and the West have since realised that China despite outward appearance of backwardness or inscrutability is a formidable competitor with very cohesive, long and local historical antecedents guiding her every stance or progress. There is no African country having that kind of historical background nor pool of ideas or knowhow to draw from. Ethiopia is in a good position to profit from her long history but somehow, I doubt that the centrist/marxist oriented Addis government have learnt anything at all from their past nor from their most recent history since Haile Selasie era to Mengistu. Well, we never learn from history anyway .
What do you sincerely think of the 'victims' in the "Ethiopian Land Grab" story bearing in mind her recent restive history. I agree that in everywhere there are winners and losers but in the case of Africa we are deliberately and quietly committing atrocities against vulnerable minorities in the name of so called "development" or "progress" negotiated by powerful larger groups. Please note the countries I mentioned earlier in my post that the internal local conditions are very volatile including Nigeria hence so called investments will not be coming anytime soon to purchase very large tracks of land no matter how desirable. I admire your optimism and trust that most of our people will do the right thing. I am in no way trying to make you to think otherwise. It's the democracy of ideas and thought . I am here to learn and exchange ideas hopefully .

Morpheus24

I ask again, what do we want? is it development? is it to progress?. If so then in what way, through what system, what structures. Any man made system will always flaws and have people who loose out as a result or advancement. The balance is embedded in recognizing and indulging in the philosphies of subject matters such as utililatrism or indvidual rights and freedoms of  where debates about the sacrfice of the few for the progress of the many versus the rights to life and to own ones self are critically analyzed. A case in point is the khoisan of botswana you bring up where their human rights seem to be violated in the arguement for urbanization and protection of the enviroment. These are collisions that are unavoidable in the matters that concern progressing and developing otherwise what is the point?

@Morpheus ^^ thanks for your write up but you'll agree with me that of all African countries Nigeria perhaps comes close to having the greatest potential to actually create or design and purposefully develop viable systems that perhaps may meet our goals of socio-economic development if we so desire or put our collective heads together given our inherent human capital. It does not necessarily follow that whenever we think  "development" or "Progress" it has to mimic something else wholesale. My fears are based on the fact that we have never really tried to look "inwards" at all but mimic others unquestionably. Looking inwards does not preclude exchange of ideas with others. As it is now we are very vulnerable because we have never been able to forge a healthy viable national culture which informs our actions such as sanctions and reward systems etc. Presently, we are hoping that "evolutionary" process will help us out without our active intervention. Whereas, economic "development" or "progress" maybe very laudable and desirable goals, can we ever overlook the social/psychic health of our society? With the little unmediated development we've witnessed so far in our domain(Nigeria), are we collectively satisfied with the impact on our socio-cultural[b]values[/b] especially as we are loosing sight of what's right or wrong but money etc. Desire for materialism or money per se is not bad but must be seated on a bed rock of positive value system pervasive in society which every one of us can sincerely plug in to like it is in those other societies we mimic. Other strong nations have an identifiable national culture and expectations. Can we afford to let mere "evolutionary" process take its cause?
Is it not rather inhumane if in the mad rush or quest for "development" or "progress" we sacrifice the tiny minority amongst us because that happens also in some places. I believe the African way of dialogue until we achieve a consensus is also a viable alternative than the "elitist" govt of Botswana method which was later found to be wrong at end by the Courts leaving bad blood everywhere hence there are on going endless wars in Africa. Your economic viewpoint in contemporary climate and times is the norm and very suitable for the prevailing market place of the Europe and the Americas. Africa is not quite a full equal member of that market place. Your economic analyses and viewpoint are on point but that kind of mind set and know how will be appropriate for a western market sphere where there are laws and accountability as given or norms instead of as exceptions .

@OP

There is nothing wrong in 'honest' transparent investments anywhere but somehow some of us seem to be holding the classical 'economics' text books too close to our chests for our own good without critical introspection of our  local conditions. We have so much unfinished business in Africa that using only classical economic interpretations as guides to confront our problems are nothing but recipe for future restive societies in permanent flux. Botswana was or still is touted as a beacon but the victims of such so called success are the Khoisan because they have no political(numbers) leverage but had to depend on international(foreign) campaigns and Lawyers to help prosecute their legitimate legal/land cases against a typical African government beholden to foreign investment interests but couched in "Development" narrative. If all was well with us, the economic interpretation of Morpheus24, Ekt Bear, and cautionary economic views of Kilode?! will be very welcomed anywhere but the reality of our state of being is sickening indeed. Watch out for future wars in South Sudan and other places in the not too distant future. The human relationship to Land in Africa is like no other place on the planet. It has been our greatest resource and protector against wanton destruction and wretchedness pervasive elsewhere but for aggressive foreign incursions into Africa. We are truly in danger again except this time, it appears 'legitimate, legal, 'equitable' negotiated investments. Zimbabwe, South Africa, Namibia, Uganda and Kenya should remind us of some festering 'Unfinished' business without adding more to our 'elitist' minority inspired anti people governments. We do not have the right people oriented inspiring governments anywhere in Africa accountable to anybody either. Internal local capacity is lacking. Nigeria comes close to having a local capacity by default because of the large ethnic groups counterbalancing each other. In other words, there is a balance of terror which most other Countries do not have hence my fear and cautiousness. 'Investments' are desirable but our history and local conditions should inform our decisions for the benefit of our people not just a handful of priviledged government officials etc. It appears bleak really.

Gbawe

Please save the patronising words for those who care. Some of you should make up your mind as to what you want this thread to be about because all I see is folks shamelessly shifting the goalpost to suit their intentions of giving a dog a bad name to hang it. The Nigerians in this thread , speaking in a self-hating manner from their American base and Local Tesco branch, do not fall in the category of under-priviledged Nigerians you describe above to make your case for some not seeing anything good in their Nation or fellow men.
The Nigerians in this thread should actually be informed enough and exposed enough to be the ones correcting misconceptions as I am doing . They certainly should not be found pandering to base ignorance and peddling false nonsense carelessly against their Nation in cyberspace while some , like yourself, have automatic mitigation in place for them!!!! That is despicable and I don't see how folks like you do not get that.
Are any of the folks in this thread , In their comfy American and UK homes, remotely close to those you describe below? Abeg let us save the intellectual dishonesty. If anything , many posters here are simply too dissociated with the reality of Nigeria today to be of any positive use to their Nation. They are blind, ignorant and totally lacking in objectivity. They have become part of the problem even if they cannot see it.

@Gbawe ^^
I am sorry if you think that I'm patronising. That is not my intention .

The highlighted above is the crux of the problem. You are presuming that every "privileged" Nigerian is well informed enough about Nigeria as to be able to defend and protect her honour in cyberspace from their comfy abroad etc. I certainly do not think most Nigerians are well informed even the so called comfy Naija. hence you are clearly offended by 'their' pervasive ignorance in your view. .
The imaginary example I used was to illustrate the palpable source of some of our collective angst. That some of the so called comfy Nigerians in North America or Europe may not share or have such an experience does not negate their legitimate feelings and empathy. Do you have to experience everything directly before you know the effects of such a thing? Let's be a little charitable to our fellow compatriots ignorant or not. It's not about winning an argument or making so called pseudo-intellectual grand standing statements on cyberspace. Please, I am out of here and I apologise once again. Bye.

ola olabiy

The investors have done nothing wrong.
It's up to your governments to look after your interest and that of your posterity.

@ola olabiy   ^^

Gbam!! .  Unfortunately there are no seemingly "legitimate" govts in Ethiopia, South Sudan, Mozambique, Central African Rep., Liberia, Gabon and Tanzania. The victims of such so called investments are citizens(minorities) who have no national political leverage. We are truly a wicked and insensitive people. All the economic reasons given in this forum are very plausible and make absolute sense in an equitable equal world but we know the reality of the socio-political dynamics in those countries if we care to look. Trust me no investor (FDI) for agricultural lands will be going to Kenya, South-Africa, Nigeria(south) or Uganda where they already have issues pertaining to land any time soon. South America, USA, Canada, much of East and Western Europe including Pakistan/India despite her large populations still have large tracks of land but no investors will be going to those places for large tracks of land either short or long term leases however attractive the terms or interest rates etc. There are no purposeful, "nationalistic" nation states in Africa hence our vulnerability to all manner of lucre. Remember Angola? . Our condition is dire indeed.

Gbawe

Let what slide ? So folks who don't know how to have pride in their nation , in good and bad times , carry the day? Abeg go siddon.  I aint playing here.

@Gbawe ^^

Haba! Bro Do you sincerely believe ^^ that? Let's assume for a moment that you are from Bayelsa state/ Ogoni and that you are about 30years old, , never seen fresh, clean, unpolluted water, decent schools that make Jakande schools @ Amuwo-Odofin look like heaven on earth, no  health dispensary let alone hospital, roads are but dreams etc yet the resources that keep the so called "nation" Nigeria afloat is under your feet; Will you still feel in good and bad [/b]times keeping in mind that you have never known any so called "good" times but pain all through life?. [b]Optimism is very good but we can't gloss over pervasive debilitating pain around us otherwise we become insensitive mindless brutes lacking in humanity. I believe you are not like that. 'Pride' in 'nation' is rather too rich an ideal to expect of someone like the 'imaginary' 30 year old I described above. We should be expecting anger and constant disruption or even War truthfully , not propaganda telling so called Nigerians that they are ok or that they are the happiest humans on earth because of a preponderance of "smart"  individuals.. Acknowledgement and discussion of our 'social problems' does not imply lack of "pride" etc Does it? Pls let it slide you're more than that

Gbawe

We are only ever to be found, as evident on this thread, criticising as if we are somehow dissociated from the problems of Nigeria. Somehow , it is other who are "greedy" and "wicked" - not us. It is easy to prove my point . If most Nigerians commentators on this thread are balanced and objective citizens in the normal sense of the world , as pertains to what obtains worldwide, we would have seen more robust defence of outrightly wrong assertions against Nigeria. Instead all I see is pseudo-intellectual pontification driven by inobjective thinking that has already made up its mind to unpatriotically give Nigeria a bad name to hang it. What others do that Nigerian does not do is now a negative indictment against Nigeria . What Nigeria does that others do not do is also a Negative indictment against Nigeria . How can Nigeria win or even make progress when its own citizens are such inobjective critics of their own Nation?

@Gbawe
I don't think that any fairly well informed Nigerian will be seriously troubled by the original post because a cursory reading of some posts have clearly pointed out to the poster that his assumptions/presumptions and assertions are rather on 'shaky' ground most especially where other groups like the Chinese, Indians and Jews were mentioned in the same breath with Nigerians for no other reason other than for "effect" etc. I clearly stated that it's unfair to do so most especially as the poster have not given us/forum any indication of a good knowledge and grasp of the [b]vastness [/b]of the national history and cultural antecedents of those groups mentioned compared to Nigeria. Hence, my first post began with a rhetorical question to the OP- " are we a nation yet let alone in decline"? etc. I continued to elaborate on how futile it is for us to attempt to deal with such a thorny subject by "painting" the scenario/cultural environment on which so called "smartness" could thrive or not etc. Please, we should not be overly 'touchy' or appear to be more 'patriotic', whatever that means. Nigeria is our collective patrimony we can do whatever we like with her if need be because it's a "work in progress" as most people have acknowledged whether we like it or not. A squabble or two between brothers and sisters in household is healthy and does us no harm . Such thorny discussions or conversations must be welcomed otherwise we become little "dictators" or "fascists" where only sweet, pretty and colourful speeches are heard. It's an indication of intolerance and fascism of ideas. I hope that democracy and freedom of thought is our collective desire. Your freedom to hold dissenting views/opinions must be respected and welcomed and nobody should feel denigrated and slapped down unjustly. As Africans we have always been humane to even our detractors.

Ade2k8

Furthermore, since we don't truly see ourselves as a nation (for all the obvious reasons), a collective sustainable push is unlikely.

@Ade2k8

That's partly the crux of our collective problems and perceived Incapacity, hence I asked rhetorically in my first reply "are we a nation yet, let alone in "decline"? ." Smart" does not spring in such an atmosphere of general feeling of collective incapacity no matter how urgent and dire the conditions are. It's a tragedy no wonder we loot and export the loot offshore not even to our villages or local domain besides the odd house or two.

Kilode?!

You discard your cultural advantage and you become a wanderer in the wilderness of earthly competition. Yes we can learn from others, but our competitors are not dumb. You lose your leverage (culture, language, society) and you become a follower never a leader.
Your "smart" becomes a disadvantage and a burden if you don't pivot it on your cultural advantage and home grown organic philosophies.

@kilode?!
Hi Bro  Thanks for your contribution. 

That was the clear intention and desire of "bantu" or "Apartheid" education in RSA then.

But if you pivot it on your cultural advantage and home grown organic philosophies, you become a truly empowered and liberated human being hence the sudden drive towards home grown appropriate economic ideas, technologies and softwares e.g. ubuntu and the study of 'King Shaka Zulu' military skills, discipline and ideas in business and military schools. There is no substitute for "Self" or home grown wisdom as the bed rock on which other so called "international" knowledge can be grafted to extend oneself. The Chinese, Arabs/Jews, Europeans, Indians, Japanese and ultimately Africans(us) must learn from each other without loosing sight of the Base or else we become nothing but efulefus instead of true Omoluabi in the true sense of the word.

ola olabiy

May be  we need to ask ourselves why these Lebanese guys who have never been to any university; [/b]who speak English the way my grandparents did -[b] run businesses better than Nigerians with multiple degrees.

@ola olabiy

Bros you are very much aware and will agree that you do not need a 'degree' to run a successful business at least from our 'common sense' observations around us everywhere let alone turanci(English).

The Lebanese will run businesses better than a majority of Nigerians because of their inherent "Culture" and historical exposure to doing so in their own domain. It is said that "Practice makes Perfect" . How many Lebanese, Asian(Indian and Chinese) young boys and women do you find roaming aimlessly around the streets of Nigeria instead of understudying and working in their Parent's businesses? Can you sincerely say that of our so called Nigerian business people in a consistent and constant learning environment? Children live what they learn. Our various cultures do not exactly encourage in a very systematic way such formal or informal education. In Nigeria, the closest to such practices are by our Yoruba and Itsekiri Market women/daughters, Igbo apprentice systems, Hausa farming, craftsmen and trading families, Bini and Nupe bronze casting apprentice systems yet are simply denigrated by the 'city' centric or quasi- educational culture pervasive in most sub-saharan Africa. We are indeed regressing and actively promoting ignorance instead of developing empowering systems to liberate us economically. The Lebanese like the Jews have age old systems that has worked and it's honed appropriately for their survival anywhere they go. Have you ever wondered how is it that money and gem stones(diamonds) are controlled and moved easily across borders by these low profile people? Well, culture and good age old system have become a Habit and an automatic reflex for them. Their "Education" from cradle to grave (Culture) does not allow an individual to be anything else but what is expected of them. Be good at whatever you are programmed to do or else you are seen as a "Disgrace", "Shame" "Failure" or "Outcast". Most societies in Africa have such values but somehow we are inexorably losing our inherent sense of "Shame and Disgrace" in Nigeria, otherwise why would an arrested thieving politician be seen on tv smiling and walking with a 'swagger' guilty or not. Culture of excellence begets smartness in the overall society. It's a skill that is not necessarily found in formal education but can be designed, institutionalised and socialised if we are truly desirous of a great society as a people.