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Christianity Etc › Re: If Evolution Was Untrue. by cloudgoddess(op): 6:14am On Apr 16, 2016

odijeks:
there are also questions that arise with the evolution theory. for example, why did evolution come to a stop with man. after several centuries, why didnt we keep evolving and evolving to more superior organisms.

after several years of chimpanzees existing, why hasn't any one of them or any other animal for that matter, evolved to a human or a more complex entity respectively. probably that's why it remains at the level of a theory tho. this evolution you speak of has remained as a theory since the 1800's when it was proposed till date of which we have had enormous leaps in science and technology since then. it stands to reason that with our technological prowess, after all that time, this scientist should be able to replicate what their theory states in the lab or in nature in order to remove all doubt.

its good u have knowledge about evolution and DNA similarities, but it would also enlighten you more to study and see how almost impossible it is for those light differences between species (that have look-alike DNAs) to transform and bridge the gap of those dissimilarities for e.g chimpanzee to man.
the evolution theory assumes that life appeared spontaneously and began to transform itself slowly. thats absurd and requires a lot of faith to believe dear

Well for one, there are a lot of false misconceptions about evolution in your post. And because your questions are based off of those misconceptions, they don't actually make much sense. I'll go one by one.

for example, why did evolution come to a stop with man. after several centuries, why didnt we keep evolving and evolving to more superior organisms.
Evolution has not come to a stop, nor will it until all life dies out. Every population of every species on earth is still evolving - it's an ongoing process involving tiny changes in the genetic material of populations generation after generation, which leads to large changes over large expanses of time (as in, millions of years for certain species - certainly not hundreds).

"Superior" is a meaningless term when comparing species with different biological niches. Evolution acts on organisms based on their environments, so the evolutionary fitness of organisms can only be measured in the context of their specific environment. If you placed a human being in a lion's den or a killer whale territory, you will quickly see that we are NOT superior to those creatures, just different. They have exactly the necessary features to survive in the environments they are presently home to, therefore they have achieved just as much evolutionary success as we have.

after several years of chimpanzees existing, why hasn't any one of them or any other animal for that matter, evolved to a human or a more complex entity respectively.
Again, this comment is based off the false assumption that humans are somehow the apex of evolution. We are not. Many animals have all sorts of features that humans lack - stronger sense of hearing, sight, and smell. Quicker reflexes, faster speed, specialized limbs & digestive systems.

Our pre-frontal cortex, the part of our brains that allows us to do all of the complex human behaviors that make us so "special", is really the only part of us that distinguishes us so much from other animals. Harm that area and people can quickly revert to very primal ways of behavior - no different than our closest living evolutionary relatives (chimpanzees & bonobos), or our less neurologically developed Homo ancestors (like Homo erectus, Homo habilis, etc).

this evolution you speak of has remained as a theory since the 1800's when it was proposed till date of which we have had enormous leaps in science and technology since then.
This statement stems from a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word theory in the context of science, versus the layman's meaning. In science, a theory is a thoroughly supported description of a body of facts - not a guess about what might have happened. An article from the National Acadamies of Sciences, Engineering, & Medicine sums it up nicely. Feel free to only read the bolded.

"The formal scientific definition of theory is quite different from the everyday meaning of the word. It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence.

Many scientific theories are so well-established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). Like these other foundational scientific theories, the theory of evolution is supported by so many observations and confirming experiments that scientists are confident that the basic components of the theory will not be overturned by new evidence.

One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed. For example, the theory of gravitation predicted the behavior of objects on the moon and other planets long before the activities of spacecraft and astronauts confirmed them. The evolutionary biologists who discovered Tiktaalik predicted that they would find fossils intermediate between fish and limbed terrestrial animals in sediments that were about 375 million years old. Their discovery confirmed the prediction made on the basis of evolutionary theory. In turn, confirmation of a prediction increases confidence in that theory.

In science, a "fact" typically refers to an observation, measurement, or other form of evidence that can be expected to occur the same way under similar circumstances. However, scientists also use the term "fact" to refer to a scientific explanation that has been tested and confirmed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing it or looking for additional examples. In that respect, the past and continuing occurrence of evolution is a scientific fact. Because the evidence supporting it is so strong, scientists no longer question whether biological evolution has occurred and is continuing to occur. Instead, they investigate the mechanisms of evolution, how rapidly evolution can take place, and related questions."

it stands to reason that with our technological prowess, after all that time, this scientist should be able to replicate what their theory states in the lab or in nature in order to remove all doubt.
And they have. Populations of E.coli bacteria and Drosophila flies have been observed to evolve new alleles in their DNA & thus new phenotypic traits after several generations of testing. Drosophila specifically were evolved to the point of genetic isolation - the marker that determines when a population has undergone speciation.

I don't expect you to have seen this research though, because it is likely (especially given your other misunderstandings, which very basic reading on evolutionary science would have eliminated) that you have only ever sought out [apparently false] information to reinforce your biases against evolution, rather than learn about the mountains of evidence that support it - or even the basic premises of the theory itself.

its good u have knowledge about evolution and DNA similarities, but it would also enlighten you more to study and see how almost impossible it is for those light differences between species (that have look-alike DNAs) to transform and bridge the gap of those dissimilarities for e.g chimpanzee to man.
Another misconception - Chimpanzees did not evolve into man. Man and chimpanzee share a common ancestor, which gave rise to multiple species over time - think of a cluster of tree branches with the same root, but different endings.

And the obvious dissimilarities between chimps & man are mostly caused by changes in regulatory genes. Chimp DNA has genes turning certain features 'on', which for us are turned 'off', and vise versa. Chimps & humans share over 98% of their DNA, nucleotide by nucleotide (that is very far from a "light similarity" ) and the differences we do see in our genomes are precisely those that would be expected after 5 million years of genetic divergence & isolation.

the evolution theory assumes that life appeared spontaneously and began to transform itself slowly. thats absurd and requires a lot of faith to believe dear
Evolution assumes nothing about the origin of life, actually. Another example of your comments being based on false premises.

ABIOGENESIS exclusively describes how the first primitive forms of life first arose on earth. Evolution EXCLUSIVELY describes the process by which life diversified into the millions of species we see today. They simply aren't the same study.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 7:28pm On Apr 14, 2016

Tjayjosh:
My dear sis, if a person is not willing to accept God’s existence by faith, then he/she is definitely not ready to accept Jesus Christ as Savior by faith. The
Bible teaches that God’s existence is clearly seen in the universe, in nature, and in our own hearts With all that said, the existence of God cannot be proven literally or scientifically; it must be accepted by
faith. At the same time, it takes just as
much faith to believe in atheism. To make the statement "God does not exist" is to make a claim of knowing absolutely
everything there is to know about everything and of having been everywhere in the universe and having witnessed everything
there is to be seen. Of course, no atheist would make these claims. Atheists cannot prove that God does not exist, for example, the solar system, their satellites and an immense number of minor plannets, comets and meteoroids. Since those places are beyond our capacity to observe, it cannot be proven that God does not exist. It takes just as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a christian. Abraham lincoln admited when he was asked about the existence of God; he said, it is hard to believe in a God that you cannot see, but it is harder not to believe. So you see, the bible is correct when it says; The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God (Psalms 14:1 KJV).

So how about the Hindus who worship Krishna by faith? Or the Muslims that take Allah by faith? The Shintos & Jains with their multiple gods who are nothing like Yahweh? They're using faith too, no evidence required so they must all be correct according to this logic!

That's what happens when you take reasoning & evidence out of the picture. Everyone gets to come up with their own "truth"

Precisely why there are over 4,000 religions, with over 100,000 denominations within them, who all think they have the correct "truth". What else would you expect with such an empty method of coming to conclusions?

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Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 7:20pm On Apr 14, 2016

analice107:
See how good you are as the Devil's advocate, meanwhile you don't believe the devil exists.
When I say it over and over that atheists are Satanists, those who don't understand disbelieve.
Stand firm darling, defend Satan, when you stand before the Judgement seat, Satan will be your advocate. Hahahahaha.

More deluded brainwashed nonsense. If you have nothing productive to bring to the discussion then I advise just sitting down. Because you're only proving my point further.

Satan is not merely an imagined scapegoat of human wrongdoing, but a real individual that controls people. Atheists are Satanists, even though by definition they lack belief in supernatural entities. And despite there being nothing other than magma and iron under the earth's crust, hell exists SOMEWHERE, and everyone who doesn't believe in your particular Jewish God who was forced into your ancestors by white colonists, is going there.

All incredibly outrageous claims, which you have provided zero valid evidence for. You rely solely on circular reasoning: "The bible is true because I know it's true and therefore God and Satan are real and if you don't believe it you're foolish and a Satan worshiper and going to hell! I win, you lose!"

Yeah, that's not how adult arguments work. No sensible person will take you seriously if that's all you've got. Anyone can shout baseless assumptions from a religious text. Doesn't make them true, doesn't make them valid, all it does is expose you as an indoctrinated religious zealot incapable of actual rational discussion.

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Christianity Etc › Re: God Does Not Change. by cloudgoddess(f): 11:50pm On Apr 13, 2016

Does god still support slavery?

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Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 11:46pm On Apr 13, 2016

analice107:
Am, this guy. You are deceived into believing atheism is just an unbelief in God. Everybody worships something dear. Everyone.
You are an Atheist and you don't know this?
O boy. Atheism is the worship of self.
Anyways. Any enough said about this matter.

Actually, NO.

YOU worship something, and because you and the likes of you are so brainwashed beyond any concievable measure, you can not fathom that other humans exist who do NOT need to "worship" things, people, or objects, to carry on their lives peacefully. Your assertions are unfounded, incredibly bigoted, and annoying to read. Just saying things over and over will never make them true. Bring your evidence for these outrageous claims and maybe people will take you seriously.

But of course, you have no evidence, because your ideas are borne solely out of the programmed need to defend your religious beliefs at all costs, despite how ridiculous you have to make yourself look, and how much you have to degrade humanity in order to do so. The expected fruits of an indoctrinated mind. And you wonder why the nonreligious are so sickened by all of this.

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Christianity Etc › Re: What If The Bible Is A Lie? by cloudgoddess(f): 11:23pm On Apr 13, 2016

DrDxtrz:
Well i have to say this is a well researched post and a really compelling delivery.. am still a little skeptical about the statistics, because i still believe the existence of a god and boomerang have actually kept some people in check, at least i have some theist friends who won't entertain some supposed sins (which are crimes in our world) because of their beliefs, maybe not all, but to a greater degree, I feel if its a free for all, it'd be more chaotic then it already is.
But hey, a little more study on this and an on ground practical citations (largely atheist and theist societies crime comparative) and i might segue, because my inclination has shifted a little to your side.

at least i have some theist friends who won't entertain some supposed sins (which are crimes in our world) because of their beliefs
What makes you so certain their intolerance for certain actions comes solely from their beliefs, and not elsewhere? It is very typical for people to misattribute the causes of their behavior, to factors other than the actual primary causes. That is especially so in the case of religion, which relies on self-fulfilling biases - "I don't steal because the grace of god is with me" could in reality be, "I don't steal because my society would punish me/I wouldn't want to be stolen from so I don't do it to others/My parents taught me it was wrong/I have no need to/etc". But the attribution is given to God because the person has been taught that good behavior can only come from God.

Contrary to what religions promote & what many religious people believe (imo, to the disservice of their own potential to simply be good human beings), going from belief in deities to nonbelief in deities does not turn people into raging kleptomaniacs and killers. That didn't happen to me, hasn't happened to any of the Ex-Christians I know, and, as I mentioned, isn't happening in the developed countries where religion is on a steady decline. In fact, the exact opposite is happening.

I feel if its a free for all, it'd be more chaotic then it already is.
Why would things need to turn into a free for all in the absense of religion? There is still government. There is still the basic, universal need to maintain a functioning and harmonious society. And seeing/imagining the effects of your behaviors on the people directly around you in the society you live in, might be a far more motivating force to act civilly than the idea that someone invisible is watching you from above and will punish you after you die. The former has a more immediate and tangible reinforcement, which, according to the research, may very well be more effective.

But hey, a little more study on this and an on ground practical citations (largely atheist and theist societies crime comparative) and i might segue, because my inclination has shifted a little to your side.
This graph from the United Nations Office of Drugs & Crime shows the relation between crime rate and public acceptence of evolution (which typically indicates lower amounts of fundamentalist religious belief).
https://s9.postimg.org/8g32e4ir3/crime_rate.png

This article on Psychology Today summarizes a research paper that found the following:

"Citing four different studies, Zuckerman states: "Murder rates are actually lower in more secular nations and higher in more religious nations where belief in God is widespread." He also states: "Of the top 50 safest cities in the world, nearly all are in relatively non-religious countries."

Within the United States, we see the same pattern. Citing census data, he writes: "And within America, the states with the highest murder rates tend to be the highly religious, such as Louisiana and Alabama, but the states with the lowest murder rates tend to be the among the least religious in the country, such as Vermont and Oregon."

And these findings are not limited to murder rates, as rates of all violent crime tend to be higher in "religious" states."

I'm sure there is more research emerging on this topic, but from what's out there so far, the trend seems to be consistent. Even visiting the countries with higher secular populations could attest to it. Places like Japan, Iceland, China, etc are visibly more peaceful & harmoniously functioning despite their lack of religiosity.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 4:05pm On Apr 13, 2016

colp2015:
As stated earlier, the problem with you was the same problem with Adam. With all the seeming intelligence you demonstrate on this thread, you still fail to see all the evidences of EVIL, nay the presence of Satan, in the world. Your very essence is flawed just like Adam was a flawed creation.

More assumptions with no evidence, and you're going off topic. There is no proof for the existence of Gods or Satan. There is no proof of the existence of "evil" as some standalone supernatural entity; there is no reason to believe that this force you call "evil" is anything other than the inevitable result of the selfish tendencies, psychological maladies, overblown egos, & conflicting motives of human beings.

Before you can dare to tell me I'm in the wrong, you must provide evidence for all of these fantastic supernatural claims. Because I can just as easily, as you're doing now, say "There are aliens controling everyone in the world through telekenesis, and we just don't know it because we are blinded by our own egos. If you doubt me you are a fool." See? Anyone can make baseless claims and insult others for not accepting them. That doesn't make those claims true or valid.

Also, how can a perfect being create something flawed? How can the pinnacle of perfection and the unlimited potential to make anything possible, "mess up"?

Adam had no say in his make-up, but he understood that when man is hungry, s/he eats food, not poison, to quench the hunger. Adam and Eve were intelligent enough to understand what it means to 'be wise like God;' thus their desire to be like God.

Another big contradictory jumble of words.

1. If Adam had no say in his make-up, that means he is NOT RESPONSIBLE for his flaws, because his flaws were not chosen by him, but selected precisely by whoever/whatever created him. When a sculptor makes a flawed vase, do you now blame the vase for being flawed? Or do you say the sculptor should've did something different? Inanimate or animate, any thing that was indeed created can ONLY have properties bestowed upon it by said creator. If the created thing is flawed in some way, then the flaws are the responsibility OF THE CREATOR.

2. Why should Adam & Eve have to desire to be like God in the first place?? Why couldn't God just make them like him from the beginning, what was stopping him from simply doing that?

Adam was a sentient being - a being capable of independent action. He was not an inanimate object devoid of intellect, emotion and volition. In fact, Adam was endowed with sufficient wisdom, hence he put the blame of his disobedience on Eve.

He blamed Eve after he had already eaten the fruit and gained knowledge of good and evil. Prior to that he did not even know the meaning of evil, and was unable to even comprehend that disobeying commands was "evil". And he clearly did not have sufficient wisdom because if he did, he would not have succumbed to Satan's tricks. He would've seen right through them. But his brain and all the processes within it, which were both created by God, did not allow him that advantage.

Actually there are people on earth dreaded by Satan. They are folks who maintain holiness and righteousness through Christ Jesus. God is powerful and He's getting His desires through believers in Christ Jesus.

...to save man from eternal perdition, separation of man from God. ''God is in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their sins unto them...'' 2 Cor 5:19.

Biblical claims without evidence. You can't prove something by referring to another unproven thing. The bible being the true & infallible word of an all-powerful entity, rather than the writings of imaginative Hebrew men, has not been proven by any external, objective, reliable measure.

No! It's not contradictory! You simply refuse to engage your faculties! God did not discuss with Adam and Eve about Satan - just as Christians are instructed not to expend their energy and time on the devil, but to abide in Christ - God simply gave Adam and Eve a simple instruction to guide them from becoming captives in the Devil's net.

The statement above is a mockery of your intellect. Adam and Eve wanted to be like God, hence their disobedience. Don't suspend your faculties, lady!

Yes, it was contradictory. If they were not responsible for how they were created, then they were not responsible for their flaws. Whatever blunder in decision-making they made was a direct result of their flawed brains, the creation of which they had no control over.

Again, why did Adam & Eve have to "want to be like god", when God had the full power to make them like him from the beginning? At the very least, why couldn't they simply have been created with knowledge of how to discern trickery?

You still have not shown why God was unable to give them that simple ability, or even a simple forwarning about Satan. God created them ill-equipt for the situation at hand, and then punished them... for being the way he made them; for acting precisely how God KNEW they would act given the way He created them.

I knew you would say that! I was on board the same boat with you until God rescued me. You will soon see the light, because people like you (as was I) will never leave the Christian faith and its adherents alone. Why do you bother to read the Bible since you believe it is a compendium of fairy tales put together to control the minds of the 'gullible'?

Anyone who uses their brains for anything other than apologetic mental-gymnastics will quickly see through the idiocy of religion. A few things:

I was a Christian for most of my life. Then I did research and actually learned about things other than a 2,000 year old Hebrew storybook passed down to my people by WHITE COLONISTS who wiped out the religions of my forefathers to dominate them. Knowledge is the enemy of religion, once you understand how the world actually works, how history ACTUALLY played out, it becomes strikingly clear that the whole thing (Christianity, & other religions) is a fabrication of the human mind and a plague onto societal progress. I am not the first ex-Christian and I certainly won't be the last. People all over the developed world are leaving religion behind by the droves and their societies are clearly benefiting from it.

Imagine if all the money spent on tithes to greedy pastors, building mega-churches, and funding idiotic anti-science Creationism programs, was put into research for HIV and Cancer? Or eradicating world hunger and spreading education to underdeveloped ocuntries? Or within Nigeria alone, rebuilding our government infrastructure and upgrading our schools. Pursuits that have TANGIBLE, REAL LIFE benefits, and do not depend on suppositions of an afterlife that haven't even the tiniest shred of proof? Our country and the world would be infinitely better off. Religion feeds ignorance and halts societal progress, history shows us this clearly. Why WOULDN'T someone who understands this, do whatever is in their power to OPEN PEOPLES EYES?

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Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 7:17pm On Apr 12, 2016*

colp2015:
The way you are arguing against the blog post would have been the same way Adam and Eve would ask endless questions about Satan, his nature and modus operandi. It's a futile exercise to discuss about an invisible entity with Man. The problem was never with God, but the limitations of man. Man was incapable of understanding Satan and his forces. The Bible describes him as a Dragon with seven heads. The most practical way to alert Man of another entity in the Garden of Eden was to give Adam an instruction like God did. To people like you, God and Satan are nothing more than figments of man's imagination.

The reason for creating man predates the drama recorded in Genesis. God actually wanted man to dominate the forces of darkness on earth.

The argument in your post is valid to some extent, but have you ever wondered why God decided to save Man? Man was disadvantaged from the beginning, but not without an instruction that gave him an edge over Satan.

In addition to the submission above, God actually wanted man to know that Satan was, and still is, in the world. Adam and Eve, though, were no match for their enemy, they were capable of obeying a simple instruction. They were given a choice to live by God's enabling power or live independent of him. They made their choice and consequently plunged their kind into a mess.

The question to you is: What's your take on God's salvation plan for man?

You cannot straddle the fence on this matter: if you reject the creation story in the Bible, then you must be bold to say that the Christian faith is a hoax.

It's a futile exercise to discuss about an invisible entity with Man.
It's a futile exercise to discuss things that have not been proven to exist. There are invisible things who's existence of which we have clear, objective evidence for, and can thus discuss productively.

The problem was never with God, but the limitations of man.
But... God created man. So God created those very limitations. In fact, the problem is precisely with God. Adam had no say in how he was made.

If a sculptor makes a flawed piece, do you blame the piece for being flawed, or the sculptor for being unskilled? The fact that God can even create something imperfect clearly contradicts the idea that he is perfect.

Man was incapable of understanding Satan and his forces.
Again, God's fault. He could've easily given man the ability if he wanted to.

God actually wanted man to dominate the forces of darkness on earth.
So why couldn't we? If God is truly all-powerful then he should get exactly what he wants. Nothing is superior to Him, correct? So why should anything, or anyone be able to interfere with his plans?

have you ever wondered why God decided to save Man?
Save Man from what? The very problems he created by making them flawed in the first place?

Adam and Eve, though, were no match for their enemy, they were capable of obeying a simple instruction.
Actually, no. This statement is self-contradictory.

That they were no match for the enemy means that they in fact were not capable of obeying the instruction. Them obeying the instruction was a potentiality that would only be actualized IF they indeed WERE a match for Satan & capable of discerning his trickery.

if you reject the creation story in the Bible, then you must be bold to say that the Christian faith is a hoax.
That is precisely my stance. Christianity is a hoax, along with the thousands of religions that came before and after it.

Humans created religions and the God(s) within them to explain things they did not understand (like weather, disease, and death), to maintain control over societies, to give hope and emotional comfort, the list goes on.

Before science, before medicine, before education, before space travel and exploration, before widespread availability of food and resources, humans needed some sort of guiding ideas for their societies, some semblence of protection, and some relief from the fear of dying (since death was far more frequent and common in the absense of medicine & reliable food production).

So every society created their own ideas of gods, and what supposedly pleases those gods (typically aligned with whatever the society valued at that time). The religions with the most powerful supporters conquered, and the ones less popular died out. Emperor Constantine of Rome is the reason Christianity still exists today. He spread it forcefully throughout that geographical region, and history ran it's course.

This proclivity of religion to to fill gaps in understanding and provide comfort in harsh societal climates is still clear today; we see that most under-developed countries who lack access to education, medicine, science and resources, also have the highest degree of religious belief. And the countries that are thriving, making steady scientific progress, living long and living peacefully, have very low rates of religiosity. Because they no longer need those comforting imaginative ideas.

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Christianity Etc › Re: RE: How Is Jesus’ Death A Sacrifice If He Rose From The Dead? by cloudgoddess(f): 3:19am On Apr 12, 2016

TrueBorn:
I have tasted God. I have experienced d wonders of His power. His S p rit dwells in me and bears me witness that wot I believe is true. He proves it in my life everyday. That's why I stayed. That's why I am resolute bc I see results. Jesus works.

What would your response be to a Hindu who says to you the following:

"I have experienced the wonders of Krishna's power and glory. The creator and destroyer of all things is embodied within me, and his power and beauty have permiated throughout my life. My children are healthy and educated, my husband is loyal and caring, I am safe and have overcome difficult trials in my life. This is how I know Krishna is real - because he has worked in my life personally and I can feel his power throughout my body when I meditate and do my yoga practice."

?

Christianity Etc › Re: Reasons Why God Is Not Subject To His Own Laws ! by cloudgoddess(f): 2:28am On Apr 12, 2016

PastorAIO:
Of course the very title of the thread and subsequently the OP, an attempt to excuse God of the need to act morally, is in fact a tacit admission that the God they worship is in fact immoral.
That is the big joke inside all this. If he wasn't immoral there would be no need to try to invent up all these excuses.

Christianity Etc › Re: Death by cloudgoddess(f): 1:57am On Apr 12, 2016

Joshthefirst:
My existence is worthwhile because I have purpose given to me by my creator.

It absolutely blows my mind that an adult man can utter this, and confidently. How zombie-like, mindless, I don't even know how to call it. How willing humans can be to relinquish all sense of self-autonomy, independent thought, self-trust, to an idea. A very shakey, unsubstantiated, 20 century year old idea. It's incredible.

And yet the person who says, "my existence is worthwhile simply because of the experiences in life that I find worthwhile", HE is the one who is messed up? He is the one who is weak-minded and wasting his life?

Fear & indoctrination can truly do a number on the human mind.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 12:03am On Apr 12, 2016

colp2015:
Not quite!

Satan is a complex being. You can't pin him to any particular action or situation. If God had said to Adam and Eve ''Hey, look out for serpent, your enemy may use it to deceive you..'' Please read below for the situation in the Garden of Eden.

First, man knew nothing about Satan. The whole concept of Satan could not sink because Satan is invisible.

Second, Satan would use another method to carry out his enterprise. This is perhaps the most difficult aspect of Satan's nature. He can manifest in any form he chooses.

So, the problem was not about God, but the limitation of man's understanding.

Man simply did not know that Satan was in the garden/earth. The story is the same for every one who repudiates the existence of God and Satan.

To underscore my posit on this issue, I'd like to ask you a question:

Do you know that Satan is the ruler of this world?

I urge you to read an interesting article on http://faithfuljoel.com/2015/07/the-tree-of-knowledge-of-good-evil/

I read the link and the argument put forward there is very nonsensical.

Satan was too powerful, so God was unable to disclose his presence to Adam & Eve? Foolishness. How does Satan being powerful/invisible prevent God from putting a warning sign? If anything Satan's "ultra powerful-ness" and invisibility would be even MORE reason for God to DO SOMETHING to INFORM/PROTECT HIS CREATIONS rather than simply allow Satan to work is way into Adam & Eve's minds, especially when he knew they would be too mentally unfit (and lacking in knowledge) to be able to resist!

And, Satan's super-powerful complexity and deceptive abilities are even more reason why it makes NO SENSE AT ALL for Yahweh to have PUNISHED Adam & Eve for blundering, especially with such severity of punishment (cursing them and every generation of human beings?). THEY WERE NO MATCH FOR SATAN THE FIRST PLACE - they did not know of his existence AND they were not suited to overcome his deceptive abilities. That is like putting a mouse and a lion in a cage for a fight, sitting back and watching the lion tear the mouse to shreds, and then punishing and damning the mouse (and every member of the mouse's familly, and all future decendents) when he inevitably loses the fight. Nonsensical, unfair, and cruel.

That blog is just more mental gymnastics that answers nothing, creates even more questions, and dodges the problem at hand. A convoluted non-answer that is extremely typical of apologetic arguments.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 11:57pm On Apr 11, 2016

analice107:
No one can make you believe anything. The facts will be stated before you, the choice to believe is solely yours.
What is Atheism. Atheism is refusing to believe there's a supreme being. Or the unbelieve in the supernatural, hence; the believe in one's self.
Adam started the believe in self. Rejected God's rule over him.

Super idiotic assertions here.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 11:56pm On Apr 11, 2016

tete7000:
I don't have your time. Believe whatever suits you. Its part of your choice, your free choice borne out of your freewill.

My standpoint is a result of education & critical thinking. Both enemies of religion, and for obvious reasons. The only way a person can believe these fables is if they have suspended all rational thought, lack basic understandings of the human mind, and/or have been brainwashed via fear of hellfire & eternal damnation. Ignorant 1st century men wrote these stories and that's exactly why they make no sense. For someone to point that out is not mere "belief because it suits them". It's the clear result of critical thinking.

I don't see why any person would refuse to apply a critical eye to the beliefs they are choosing to dedicate their entire lives to. Do you even care if what you believe is true? Or have you already invested so much emotion that it's accuracy takes a backseat to the emotional comfort it grants you?

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 11:18am On Apr 11, 2016

Drigdee:
God created Man to be a god on the earth and have dominion over everything.
But God does not force anyone to worship Him, that is one of the proofs of his love for us and it also describes His personality. He gives everyone the power to choose to serve , He does not force it.
So there had to be an avenue for Man to make that choice.
For example, when the devil rebelled against God long before creation, he didnt force His dominion over the devil, instead he allowed the devil to choose , and prepared the lake of fire for the rest to know the punisment of not recognisig Him as the creator .
This applies to us Humans also.
Choose you this day whom you will follow.
But still, How unsearchable are his judgement and His ways past finding out.

Benprak:
God never intended man to sin by creating the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God put d tree there because man is a free moral agent,and u can say man has free will to choose if u don't give him a choice? Think about dat

shine12:
Because He (God) did not create Robots.He gave man (Human) the freewill to obey/disobey and choose between right and wrong.Had He created Robots there wouldn't be the tree of good and evil.

tete7000:
The tree was placed their so as not to make us a programmed robot, a zombie like we have now in our scientific world. In a nutshell it signifies our freewill. It is actually love of God for us that made him do that not the other way. Imagine how painful it is for him see human chose the devil over him when he has the power to constrain us.

Adortem:
The power of choice! God didn't create man as zombies,He gave man a will,so the fruit of good and evil was there because he wanted them to simply make a choice and they did! In our lives,God would never force a choice on us,he gives us options to choose from "good or evil"?

Ask yourself, what causes human decision-making? What are the factors at play when we make a choice?

All thinking is done with the pre-frontal cortex, or the part of our brain that distinguishes us as "human", which has it's own natural tendencies, including:
- Curiosity. Wanting to learn as much about the environment as possible.
- Reasoning. Wanting to understand, and make choices based on those understandings.
- Persuasion. Ability to be convinced if sufficiently convincing arguments are put forward.

All of these mental tendencies, amongst others, are precisely the reason our species has survived, and managed to dominate so many other species. If Yahweh indeed created every aspect of human beings, that means HE INSTALLED THOSE TENDENCIES & MECHANISMS IN OUR BRAINS, INTENTIONALLY.

In addition, Adam and Eve were NOT given the power of informed choice. The choice they were given was "obey god and huh

or not obey god and procure a huge benefit", with zero details as to why it was even wrong to disobey god, or what "wrong" was or meant (as the story goes they did not learn the meaning of right vs. wrong until they had eaten the fruit). To make a truly informed choice, and not an arbitrary, mindless one, we must know:

1. Why something is wrong/right and what those concepts even mean.
2. What the consequences will be if we choose either option.
3. If there is a potential to be misled, and if so what form would this misleading be presented in (ie. Satan & his argument for why they should eat the fruit).

Adam & Eve had NONE of those things. It is obvious what choice would most likely be made in such a situation, and humans of today are no different. We do not blindly make decisions because x person in charge told us (unless we are ruled by a dictator or brainwashed, which is exactly what theists are, no surprise there). Expecting them NOT to eat from the tree, given their human brains, the situation they were presented with, and the lack of details they were given, would be expecting them NOT to give in to the EXTREMELY PREDICTABLE functions of human nature and neurological patterns. Which, if God himself TRULY created our brains, he would KNOW EVERY SINGLE DETAIL AND MECHANISM OF AND WOULD HAVE MANUALLY INSERTED HIMSELF.

The flaws in the Adam & Eve story are so obvious to anyone studied in basic human psychology and/or neurobiology, or simply to any truly reasonable and honest person who has not been a victim of religious brainwashing.

But of course the cavemen who wrote the crap had no idea how our brains worked or how complex of a process decision-making is, or even that the concept of "free will" in itself is hotly debatable (I won't go into too much detail, but ask yourself this: If two people could possess the exact same genetic code and be exposed to all the exact same environmental factors to the minute detail, would they make the same choices? The fact that 99% of our thinking, learning, and interpretation is done by the subconscious brain, tells us the answer is YES. Modern psychology has shown us that absolute "free will", at least in the way that apologists describe it, very likely does not fully exist. Which is another huge monkey wrench in the Adam & Eve fable, and christianity in general.)

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 10:54am On Apr 11, 2016

Suurulere:
"Hast thou not known? Hast thou not heard? That the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary; there is no searching of His understanding."-Isaiah 40:28.

If we know everything about Him, then He is no more God.

Forget Adam and Eve and be like Jesus...the Second Adam and the Lord of Heaven.

Boooo. Sucky copout and a non-answer. "Don't ask, god isn't meant to be understood". SO the same can be said for any of the 3,999 other gods that have existed throughout human history and many even prior to Yahweh. If you don't understand them, it doesn't mean they are false! It just shows their godliness!!!

Nonsense.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 10:52am On Apr 11, 2016

colp2015:
God planted the tree of knowledge of good and evil to alert Adam that Satan was in the garden. God did not intend to test man's obedience through the tree, but to communicate to Adam and Eve that evil spirits were in the garden with them.

Adam knew nothing about the invisible enemy. God knew Satan was in the garden, but since Adam did not give name to Lucifer, coupled with the fact that Lucifer/Satan is invisible, there was a problem communicating the nature and mission of Satan to Adam and Eve. Hence, God planted the tree of knowledge and evil to induce the adversary to reveal himself.

Who else but Satan would kick against God's instruction? Adam and Eve would never have sinned deliberately without influence.

I urge you to read an interesting article on http://faithfuljoel.com/2015/07/the-tree-of-knowledge-of-good-evil/

What is so hard about saying, "by the way there is a serpent here that will try to convince you otherwise. he will mislead you so don't listen to him, just a heads up" huh

This simple two sentences is too difficult for an all-powerful god to utter to his creations? Especially given the stakes? The mental gymnastics is strong.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 10:43am On Apr 11, 2016

sandygechy:
What's this one saying

Truth. Obvious truth.

But you are too brainwashed to see it.

Christianity Etc › Re: Why Did God Create The Tree Of Good and evil If He Didn't Want Man To Sin by cloudgoddess(f): 1:11am On Apr 11, 2016

No one in this thread, (aside from the ones who said because the story is a fabricated lie/Yahweh is evil, etc) has directly answered the question at hand here. Instead you people keep going in different unrelated directions, avoiding the crux of the matter.

The heart of the matter is this: God KNEW the end result when he placed the tree there. He KNEW that in that particular situation, with Adam & Eve's human tendencies for curiosity, propensity to be persuaded by outsiders, ignorance of the consequences, etc (ALL, BY THE WAY, A RESULT OF GOD'S OWN HANDIWORK), they WOULD eat the fruit.

It was not a "maybe" or "if they love me they won't do it, let's see what happens". Given his all-knowing, all-seeing vision of the past, present, future, and his knowledge of every neural connection in Adam & Eve's brains that would be activated during the exchange with Satan, it was CERTAIN that they would eat the fruit if he placed the tree there. And yet, he still placed the tree there, and then punished them for the outcome he KNEW would inevitably take place, because of all of the factors that HE HIMSELF PUT INTO PLACE.

Whereas if he placed the tree somewhere else, or did not make it at all, or excluded "curiosity" and "susceptability for persuasion" from the list of human psychological tendencies when he was creating us, NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE OCCURED. With very simple decision making God could have easily prevented this "downfall of humanity". Or, even, surprise, FORGIVEN ADAM & EVE RIGHT THEN AND THERE, instead of DOLING OUT COMPLETELY DISPROPORTIONAL PUNISHMENTS LIKE A SADISTIC KID WHO SHAKES UP HIS ANT FARM FOR AMUSEMENT. You know, like an actually loving creator would do.

And, not only did he punish Adam & Eve, but THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE. We never had a fair chance. Adam & Eve made their choice out of IGNORANCE of the actual consequences and SUSCEPTIBILITY to the very human traits & psychologal tendencies bestowed upon them by this so-called loving creator. Any truly reasonable person would clearly see the contradictory, nonsensical, idiotic, sadistic, cruel, pointlessness of this whole setup.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Overcoming Sexual Lust For Christian Youths by cloudgoddess(f): 12:36am On Apr 11, 2016

How sad is it that religion causes man to be an enemy of his own body.

Sex is natural. There is a REASON sex drive arises after puberty - it signals maturity and biological transition into potential mating and child-bearing. It is not possible to avoid "sexual lust" as a post-pubescent human being, if you think you can do it you are decieving yourself.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong about being attracted to another human being sexually, and insisting that that is so is among the highest forms of psychological abuse. Proper sex education for teens who have passed puberty is VITAL if you want to prevent psychological distress and easily avoidable STD's.

In fact, all this talk forbidding sex and even sexual thoughts, only creates an INCREASED inclination towards it, and even an obsession with it - this is psychologically proven. It would be far more responsible to educate on the importance safe sex & the dangers of unsafe sex, the potential emotional outcomes & building emotional maturity, being selective when choosing a partner, and the importance of mutual consent. Many people, given correct sex education, still choose not to partake due to their own preference. The key is that they do not have an unhealthy obsession or guilt about the idea of sex.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Do Chimpanzees Believe In God? by cloudgoddess(f): 12:03am On Apr 11, 2016

McSterling:
This is intellectual dishonesty. How do we use DNA to determine paternity? It is simply by looking at the genetic information contained in the DNA of the individuals concerned. We're simply measuring how similar this information is between both individuals. DNA information happens to be very precise. It is a sequential arrangement of bases which make up the DNA molecule. This information is copied from parent to offspring. The more identical the information is between two individuals, the more closely related they are. For instance, let's say A and B have a 99.9999999% dna match, and A and D have a 99.9999% match, therefore A and B are more closely related than A and D. In phylogeny, we simply go further—A and R then have a 99.9% match and so on. Does this mean A and R are unrelated simply because we have moved further? Of course not. A and R are only less related than A and B, but related nonetheless.

What you're saying is that A and R are unrelated just by virtue of the gap between them. In other words, you're only related to your father but not related to your great-great grandfather. DNA sequencing operates under a single principle, irrespective of the degree of divergence between organisms.

Another analogy, if seun asks you and I to write independently on the subject "humanity". And then when we turn out our respective essays, it is found out that both our first three paragraphs are exactly alike word for word, can it not then be established that we copied from each other or from a single source? Would it be logical to say we didn't copy from a single source at all because the remaining one or two paragraphs aren't exactly alike?

Human genes infused in fruit flies have produced the same effect as fruit fly genes. Do we and fruit flies belong to a single species? Why are our genes alike then?

"Because the intelligent designer intentionally created some of our genes to be similar to fruit fly genes! that doesn't mean we are related! don't question the designer's methods!"

This is the best answer you can expect, just a heads up.

Christianity Etc › Re: Do Chimpanzees Believe In God? by cloudgoddess(f): 11:56pm On Apr 10, 2016

Muafrika2:
It's a veiled insult to dehumanize Africans so that they can continue to take advantage of us.

Evolutionists believe that only Africans evolved from monkeys. The non Africans apparently evolved from other humans. There are white skinned monkeys, why don't white people evolve from them?

There may have been a little differentiation within species as a result of environment, nuclear or other forms of accidents. But evolution is more of a shaky theory than science. In fact, it's a philosophy.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

What evolutionary biology textbook did you read that gave you these nonsensical ideas? I find it very hard to believe that you have even read one book on this subject. Everything you said here is nonsense, and has not been claimed by ANY evolutionary biologist working in the field today, nor in any peer reviewed research journal, or by any modern professor evolutionary biology.

1. NO HUMAN EVOLVED FROM A MONKEY. EVER. Monkeys and humans are related via divergence from a common ancestor. This means that going back millions of years, you will find an animal that was neither "monkey" or "human", but possessed precursor traits that, with enough time and genetic alteration, would lead to different lineages including the monkey, the human, the chimpanzee, etc. Picture a tree stem with multiple branches extending from it. The root from which all the branches extend, represents the common ancestor.

2. ALL HUMANS AROSE FROM THE SAME COMMON ANCESTRAL SPECIES. I seriously have no idea where you heard that only Africans evolved (again, from this common ancestor, NOT monkeys). That's simply false. The first modern humans ALL originated in Africa - some remained, and some migrated into Asia & Europe, gradually evolving their own homogenous traits due to genetic isolation & new selective environments.

3. The only thing shaky here is your education on this topic, and I'm being serious. You seem to be thoroughly ignorant regarding evolutionary science, what it claims, how it works, what the evidence behind it is, etc. Please go and read more on this if you are truly interested in having any idea what you are talking about.

University of California at Berkeley has an entire web page dedicated to clearing common misconceptions about evolution, as well as a wealth of easy to understand materials explaining the science in depth. I suggest checking this out as a starting point.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_teacherfaq.php

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Christianity Etc › Re: What If The Bible Is A Lie? by cloudgoddess(f): 11:02pm On Apr 10, 2016*

DrDxtrz:
I would keep my grammar as simple as possible, need i say i grew up in a Spanish neighborhood.

The second page of this interesting thread had me wanting to address a fact, truth is when we humans break man-made laws of their respective societies, all they need worry about is being caught in the process or trails that would lead back to them pro-investigations by law enforcers, so we can say a sacrosanct entity might be needed so people might have a feeling of always being watched over by a god, its interesting to note that each of these religions have certain rules/commandments for their followers to follow which when compared are somewhat similar, these said commandments are sacred to them because they believed it was passed down by their all powerful god and once broken, you are said to have sinned, hence the facade of an after life where they all are made to answer for their sins, and well even if no man saw you breaking the said law, followers believe their Gods bears witness. This actually checks the excesses of believers (at-least those who believe and not just mere hypocrites).
All am trying to say is religion is a way of having the larger percentage of humans in check, so they feel they'd answer to something that isn't man-made, a god, and their creator

There is a popular saying; "Being a leader is knowing when to follow the law and when not to" that means, not everyone has the luxury of breaking laws when it only works for a greater good, the majority would abuse the privilege.
So yeah, we need religion to keep some people in check.

P.S: Am atheist but i don't criticize or judge the theists and others.

Cc sonOfLucifer; cloudgoddess; musKeeto;

Hello there DrDxtrz.

I think that idea very much seems to have merit on the surface - and it's an argument frequently put forward by theists. But in practice it simply doesn't appear to play out. Like myself & others have pointed out a few times, statistically there does not seem to be any positive correlation between practiced morality and religiosity - in fact, the opposite seems to be true. Countries with higher rates of people who identify as religious (I think the criteria used is "believing in a deity that watches their actions & influences their lives" ), have significantly higher rates of violent crime, teenage pregnancy, wealth disperity, and other markers that would point towards a society being less moral. And in addition, countries with the highest secular/atheist/agnostic populations, score very low in comparison on all of those markers, and much higher on markers like overall health, equality, etc. So it's actually the reverse of what many would expect.

There are several reasons why this may be the case. In my social psychology textbook I recently read some passages on the effects of harsh punishment on influencing behavior, which may shed some light. It turns out that extreme punishments (perhaps including such threats as eternal hellfire) are actually quite ineffective in discouraging bad behavior consistently & reliably. I clipped a few portions:

https://s29.postimg.org/rrdoid7uv/about_punishment.png

Add to that the "repent & you shall be forgiven" doctrine of Christianity and you can see how this can create a mental environment that leads to inconsistent moral behavior. It seems secular societies tend to rely on how their actions will effect their fellow citizens as a way to foster moral compliance, rather than lean on fear of extreme punishment from some dictating authority figure. Reasoning (ex. teaching children why certain things are wrong to do, not just that they are wrong because x authority said so) and "smaller punishments" typically in the form of social reinforcement, might play more of a role for them. Consistent with what I read in my textbook, these seem to be more effective means of moral encouragement.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Do Chimpanzees Believe In God? by cloudgoddess(f): 1:27am On Apr 10, 2016

CoolUsername:
For the umpteenth time evolution is not a belief but rather a hard scientific fact that has been observed both in nature and the laboratory.

I know you will still fail to comprehend that this time around and the only reason I'm even bothering to type this is for the sake of others.

It's just too frustrating.

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Do Chimpanzees Believe In God? by cloudgoddess(f): 1:26am On Apr 10, 2016

UyiIredia:
I have to say. It takes a special kind of stupid to believe in evolution.

Have you not learned anything from the hundreds of times your arguments against evolution have been torn to shreds by various people on these forums?

Some people truly are beyond reasoning with, apparently.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Reasons Why Atheist Are Confused People by cloudgoddess(f): 9:28pm On Apr 09, 2016*

Richirich713:
Not atheism.

Yeah cuz Nigeria a poor country, got nothing to do with religious beliefs or atheism. Especially not Christian teachings.

Well Martin Luther King Jr never quoted Darwin to argue against slavery.

Who claimed atheism in itself was somehow a driving force for good? I certainly didn't.

Atheism (lack of belief on supernatural entities) does not in itself produce morality, and neither does theism (belief in supernatural entities). The problem is when theists like yourself insist that believing in a supernatural entity (specifically Yahweh) is indeed required for people to uphold a healthy standard of morality. My citing of those secular countries who are achieving that very goal WITHOUT YAHWEH proves that is a very incorrect assertion. And the fact that slavery was abolished INDEPENDENTLY of any instruction from Yahweh proves the same.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Nigerians, What Is God Doing About Our Current Problems by cloudgoddess(f): 2:27am On Apr 09, 2016

malvisguy212:
you are wrong , I believe you are christian before you abandon the faith, I tell you, you don't even know the purpose of God creating you. World peace is not among the agenda of God, we are only advice to make peace with God, the bible say friendship with the world is enmity with God. As long as God allow you to make a choice, will you love your enemy ? NO, you can't , but the bible say Love your enemy. A God of love wants the whole world to operate in love, but could you force someone to love you? Their is suffering because we chose to go against God will.

World peace is not the agenda of God.

Then what business does any person have worshipping such a god? A God who doesn't care of the earth on which billions of people live goes to ruins. Peace is not on his agenda but lining pastor's pocketbook with lambourgini money is? & helping little Sally pass her exam is? and all the other arbitrary strokes of good fortune that Christians attribute to Gods doing? He has time for petty favors like these but world peace is not as important? Mschewww. Very useless god.

As long as God allow you to make a choice, will you love your enemy ? NO, you can't
BS. You ever heard of Jainism? Buddhism? It goes according to their teachings to bring harm to no living thing and cultivate the utmost compassion. And the monks among these disciplines actually practice what they preach. Unlike Christians. And they don't worship any Yahweh. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of secular humanists with kind and charitable hearts. And the governments in secular countries like Netherlads and Japan aren't embezzling money and doing shady things at the expense of their citizens like Nigerian politicians are. Yet we are way more invested in this Yahweh character than they are. Why can they be more good than us, with less religion than us?

A God of love wants the whole world to operate in love, but could you force someone to love you?
What part of commanding slavery and genocide sounds to you like "wanting the world to operate on love"? And he essentially IS forcing humans to love him since the ONLY alternative to loving him is perishing in hellfire for eternity! You don't tell the person you are in a relationship with, "You don't have to love me, but if you don't you'll be punished for longer than you can ever imagine for refusing to accept me"! That is abuse.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Reasons Why Atheist Are Confused People by cloudgoddess(f): 12:38am On Apr 09, 2016

Richirich713:
you do have a inclination to do good. Just like Stalin and Mao had their inclination on what they called "good".

Hm. What's driving the people in Netherlands, Japan, Sweden, China, etc. to do good? Their crime rates are a miniscule fraction compared to Nigeria's, yet the vast majority are not Christian and over half their populations are atheist.

From where did the idea to abolish slavery come from, since it was not present in the bible? The entirety of the bible's commentaries on the issue of slavery are only ones of promotion, yet somehow, somewhere along the line, man found out that slavery was one of the most horrid crimes that ever existed. How'd they come up with that? Your bible sure didn't show them.

Christianity Etc › Re: Does God Really Answers Prayer? by cloudgoddess(f): 12:25am On Apr 09, 2016

theEYe21:
The difference between heart and brain is that, the brain can be corrupt but the heart cannot. The heart is full of positive emotions like love, compassion, guilt, the feel of concern and many others... It's the brain that has led to soo many immoralities and suffering of this world. But the unfortunate truth is that the brain is more important than the heart. This makes a balance.

You missed the point I think.

The heart is not the source of any emotions. Emotion centers all lie in the brain, the amygdala.

Christianity Etc › Re: Today, I Seize Being A Christian!! by cloudgoddess(f): 2:09am On Apr 07, 2016

OP congrats for making such a brave choice and being true to yourself. Nigeria needs more like you honestly, and more people who support gay rights as well.

I wish you the best of luck.

Christianity Etc › Re: Did God's Curse On The Serpent Work? by cloudgoddess(f): 10:11pm On Apr 06, 2016

bolaji3071:
Well I won't advice other born again christians in this section to argue with you. I can't change you, Neither can they..it is only God that can do that.

You can't understand the bible except you are born again and have the holy spirit in you.. The word of the Lord(bible) is more deeper than just craming a verse and trying to use your own human knowledge to decode what it really means.

I just pray that you receive the touch of Christ so that you can really understand.

There is really nothing to understand, except what OP has already said. The bible, when approached critically and not with pre-existing bias which all Christians share, is full of many extremely questionable and downright false claims about nature and the universe we live in. The reason you think there must be a deeper meaning and that OP is not accurate in his criticisms, is because you have been indoctrinated to see the bible as a flawless book that can never be criticized. No matter what flaws are exposed in your religious book, you will make an excuse for it because that is how indoctrination controls people's minds.

I quote OP here:

Please, why must everything that sounds wrong have a symbolic meaning and others that sound correct have literal meanings?

This is something that all religious apologists do. When a flaw is pointed out, suddenly "it was meant figuratively". Yet in other verses that seem to uplift or validate the religion, "it means exactly what it says". Special pleading fallacy.

What you're asking OP to do when you say he must accept your religion to properly understand, is dispel his reasoning and blindly follow a text full of contradictions, natural falsehoods and unproven claims. You're telling him, "become indoctrinated like me so you can be driven to try & make sense out of the senseless."

1 Like

Christianity Etc › Re: Nigerians, What Is God Doing About Our Current Problems by cloudgoddess(f): 5:08pm On Apr 06, 2016

Joeblis:
God gave us freewill the moment we are created.. you get to choose what i s bad or good and any part you choose whether good or bad has the tendency to affect people around you , imagine an elected official embezzling $2b in a poverty-stricken nation whose fault is that? the problems we facing is man made so the solutions are definitely going to be man made too
so when you get a position of authority you can be difference, you only ask God for inspiration on how being about that change.

Why doesn't god give man the guidance to fix our country? Isn't that what prayer is for? Asking god to help you?
People have been asking god to help, nigeria is one of the most prayerful countries, and yet he isn't helping. Whereas places like china and netherlands and japan where they don't pray, yet they are prospering. If he would prefer to leave prayerful humans to f**k themselves over, yet allow non-prayerful humans to prosper, what is the point of prayer and why does the bible say "ask and you shall be given?"

Also, the free-will argument is debatable. God (supposedly) created us KNOWING the mental processes & emotional tendencies that lead to these problems in the first place (greed, anger, fear, etc) -- and the types of horrible atrocities that would result (since he knows the future). He gave us brains capable of feeling all of these things and acting on them under certain conditions & upbringing. Why didn't he just give us brains that were immune to greed, for example? That would have easily prevented the situation that you just described. He did not have to place these mental tendencies there in the first place.

He could have created human beings only capable of feeling compassion, love, honesty, tenderness. If he made our brains that way, so many problems, so much poverty, and so much death would be avoided. But he didn't. He purposely gave us flawed brains, and then, according to you, placed the blame on us for falling victim to the same brains he created. How exactly is that loving?

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