₦airaland Forum

Magnoliaa:
Ahhhh. Biko, thank you, wo. Thank you so much see. I would think these things are pretty easy to see o.

Don’t mind acid

Acidosis:
It's very easy to form an opinion of who's marginalized and who's not.

These aren’t opinions.

Oppression can be measured in numbers, policies, etc

I see you tried to summarize what you think you know about me in this brief post and it couldn’t be further from the truth because you don’t in fact know anything about me.

I know I’m not about to convert to Islam or marry a woman or change my physical gender presentation.
So where’s the split personality and loss of identity you speak about? You don’t even know me in person so how would you know what my identity is like?
Ukraine and Muslims? Acidosis don’t make me laugh please. Islam is one of the most oppressive religions on earth. On par with Christians. When I tell Christians to own up to their oppressive ideas, it doesn’t mean I consider Muslims an oppressed group. Two things can be true at the same time. And you don’t even know my opinion on the Ukraine issue. I’ve mostly been silent about it. Don’t make assumptions please

Anyway my identity doesn’t depend on depriving others their right to free existence. I guess that’s the difference between you and I. I don’t need to subscribe to any of that in order to show folks what my identity is.

I’m not confused about who I am or what I like. Therefore, seeing someone living their life the way they want to will not make me uncomfortable. I’m not going to be influenced to change from what I like into what they like. I don’t how speaking for them will change my identity in that aspect.

I don’t know where you get off to thinking that if you don’t agree with oppressing those that are different from you, then you’re not being true to your real identity. Ask yourself why you think that. Who are you trying to SHOW that you are true to whatever beliefs you share.

Because I know people who don’t necessarily support bigotry but won’t say anything against it because they don’t want their community and brethren to see them as different.

Acidosis:
There's a fine line between defending the rights of a marginalized group and split personality issues.

In trying to defend a marginalized tribe in Nigeria, I won't lose my identity.

And it's always very easy to come up with one's idea of the marginalized. It's always women, ga.ys, you've even added Muslims lately and oh Ukraine

When men defend men's rights, they're upholding patriarchy. It's easy to say one group is marginalized while the other isn't.

Acidosis:
You see, this is the issue I have with Coco at some point. You expend energy defending ga.ys and bisexuals even though you're "straight" and married to the opposite sex. Why do you spend so much time defending what you're not, when you should ideally preach what you do and what works for you?

About this, it’s about compassion and empathy. You can defend a marginalized group without being one of them.
A man can defend women’s right.
A white person can defend POC rights.
A straight person can defend gay rights.

In fact when people from the oppressor group refuse to speak up for the oppressed group, the oppressed group will never get equity and equality.

So I don’t have to be LGBTQ to agree that they deserve same considerations as straight people.

Phew thank you.

They just chose not to believe us so it doesn’t even matter what one says.
If I say I would encourage my man or the men around me to get a vasectomy, then it would be a bad thing.
If I say I wouldn’t , they’ll say I’m not practicing what I preach. So what am I supposed to do?

It’s a personal decision. So let’s leave it at that.

Magnoliaa:
@Acidosis, here's what you said:



And here's Coco response:


And, me, what I'm saying is not limited to the scope of the vasectomy conversation. People ASSUME liberal-leaning women aren't always true to what they say or believe in. I'm addressing that generally. You can make conclusions based on our comments all you want, I'm telling you that you have nothing conclusive to say that we don't have the conversationS we have online, with our sons and brothers. Or in other words, we don't practice what we preach.

And I told you about me.

Here's Amazon's response:


And then let's not even get started on the number of such women who embody what they preach, hence my asking you how many of such women you know.

It's a different thing entirely to claim 'they don't have such conversations with their families or partners' and another thing to ask 'what's the outcome of such conversation?' Which wan are you saying? We do abi we no dey do (am for real life)?

Coco is just one person, and can choose not to tell you her personal details. It doesn't mean there aren't others who have had that conversation and their husbands have agreed to the procedure. Of course, it's something unconventional especially in this part of the world. So if you find such a couple, not readily, I'm sure you'll still have more poking questions for them on that decision.

That's for your notion on vasectomy. In addition to that, there are other ideas people have concerning feminist women when it comes to relationships, marriage, children, domestic duties, respect and cooperation, etc. And the idea is that we don't put our money where our mouth is as you've said here. That is what I'm calling untrue.

Because if I bring you a feminist that can cook, cook or can't, don't cook - people will find a way to turn it against her and as a plus for patriarchy.

If I also bring you a feminist that respects her husband, same thing.

If I literally bring you thousands of feminist women doing what they preach, contrary to your belief, you'll still find a way to question them...you'll never accept there are... or they are.

Acidosis:
Vasectomy is not a disease, is it? Not willing to disclose it makes it even scary.

No it’s not a disease. But it’s a personal medical decision. so if someone makes it and discloses it to me, it’s not my place to be discussing it with other people who they didn’t consent to reveal that information to.

GloriousGbola:
Coco has been in obodo oyibo too long. Na for staff bus hr dey broadcast pipu matter for naija. Ethics, what ethics? Code of wetin?

Lol.
I would lose my license expeditiously.
I play too much but I don’t play that type of play

Acidosis:
I'm yet to read just one disadvantage of condom or abstinence. There has to be at least one disadvantage of condom for us to call for the widespread adoption of vasectomy.

If a single guy undergoes the procedure, what then happens when he gets married? Reversal? After one or two kids, he would go for another vasectomy, right? All these experiments on one man's fragile and delicate testicular organs. C'mon, you guys should be realistic. Mind you, it might take another 1-2 million to reverse the process.

How can you even say that a 2 million naira surgical procedure in Nigeria is risk-free?

There’s no disadvantage to condoms or abstinence.
Abstinence remains the 100% method of birth control.
But it’s unrealistic to depend on it. We can and should encourage it for people who want no risk at all. But we also know that human nature will win at some point that’s where other methods of birth control come in. I have nothing against abstinence as a choice.

Vasectomy as a birth control method cannot also be for everyone. I’m not saying all men out there need to go and get a vasectomy. But we aren’t even having the conversation for those who are eligible. If we must prevent unwanted pregnancies, all forms of birth control have to be accessible and that includes vasectomy. Many men who could have gotten it don’t even know it’s an option or know what it’s all about. That’s why the conversation needs to be had. Talking about it doesn’t mean all men of reproductive age will get it. Nor do I think it’s realistic for all men to get it.

Like why is it 2 million naira?
Why don’t many men know about it?
Why are the ones who have heard of it misinformed and afraid?

All these questions can be answered by education and research. Only conversation that sparks such moves. Yes we are not there now but we’ll get there.

Acidosis:
Now you can't disclose personal health information?

The emboldened, nope, it wouldn't encourage me to get it.

If it won’t encourage you to get it, then what’s the point of me telling you?

Yes I won’t disclose someone else’s personal health information. Let me know whenever you see me doing that and I’ll stand corrected.

Acidosis:
The emboldened is the issue, dear. We only know what you guys stand for from your reactionary response to some ill-mannered guys on Nairaland. I think you guys are wonderful, intelligent, smart, and well-mannered, but to say the truth, the nastiness from these ill-mannered guys on Nairaland often get the best of y'all, at least online [I know we all have the freedom to post whatever..].

About the conversation Coco and Amazon had with their kids, well they didn't tell us the outcome of the conversation. Moreover, I don't think they had that kind of conversation with kids, well, maybe with their partners. The important thing, which we don't know, is the consequence or outcome of that conversation.

I don’t have vasectomy conversations with my kids. They are little girls . That one no concern them.
There’s only one person in my house who I can have that conversation with.

You wanting to know the outcome of that conversation means I might have to disclose personal health information of another person to you. You check am na. Is that how we do it?

And what if I told you we had the conversation and it yielded result in a vasectomy, would that encourage you to get it? Be honest

Acidosis:

Yes cost is a big deterrent and like saint Mary said, that’s something for us to work on advocating for.
Birth control all around needs to be advocated for and made accessible to everyone.

Before we can get there though, we’ll need a mental reprogramming about who deserves it or not. Trust me that’s one of the reason why it’s so out of reach. We don’t consider it an issue that affects everyone. “It’s only married people’s problem” when in reality, there are about 100 million fertile people in Nigeria so it’s a national problem for everyone, not just married folks.

pocohantas:
True. Some grown women do not even know how their body works. Seems like too much calculations for them. That is why I am headlining a program to educate the girl child on their menstrual cycle (hygiene, safe period and safe sex ). You can donate menstrual pads and cash to us.

Now I remember I have calls to make sef. Thank you for this reminder.

Kudos mama

Acidosis:
The perceived risk of vasectomy is high out there. So long as there are other alternatives for men, then vasectomy will always remain an unnecessary procedure.


As per the second paragraph, thank God you found the post. I don't mean any harm though. Our fight no fit end

Family planning is heavily subsidized by the federal government in Nigeria. There isn't enough to go round. In this case, no sane government will prioritize the sexual needs of single ladies over that of married women.

Vasectomy is virtually risk free. It’s not an unnecessary procedure if the man getting it is in a committed relationship with a woman who’s committed to him. Condoms will be unnecessary in that case and the woman can get off hormonal birth control with its side effects.
I felt like that earlier comment about nurses was unwarranted. Moving on though…

That being said, your last paragraph in this post just highlights our whole point in this thread. That married women are given more access because they are married. You say no sane government would prioritize single women and I say it’s insane to even discriminate in the first place. The issue isn’t that there isn’t enough resources to go round, the issue is that we live in a patriarchal dystopia where a woman’s worth and respect depends on whether she has a man or not. So a married woman can get an abortion because she got pregnant “the right way” but we demonize a single woman for the same thing.

Hmm!

Tubal ligation.

And even that is more complicated than a vasectomy. Vasectomy is a 10min procedure these days. Topical anesthesia. Out in 15 mins with a bag of ice to your groin to help reduce soreness and you’re good to go.
Way better for the couple than all the female birth control drama.

They are not ready for this conversation though.

Saintmary:
Thanks for offering this information about hysterectomy, whether partial or full.


The brain, which regulates hormone levels will still be sending oestrogen without knowing that the uterus is absent. This results in heat flashes which are very disorienting.



I think what Acidosis should have suggested is fallopian tube tying. I forgot the medical term for the procedure.

It's much safer, it can still be reversed in some cases, and nothing needs to be removed unlike hysterectomy where the uterus is removed, it's on the same painful level as caesarean section.


Omo, women dey see shege.


Any guy that says nonsense should have his mouth padlocked.

A hysterectomy is by far way more complicated and dangerous than a vasectomy. It’s major abdominal surgery. Risk to life and limb. Long recovery. Excruciating pain. It’s a totally unnecessary procedure to be used as a birth control method.

Is your second paragraph a jab at me? Una don start now. I’m only just seeing that. Let me ignore the subtle dig. I’m not saying every woman has the same healthcare needs. It will definitely differ from person to person. I’m saying we shouldn’t be providing better access to married women than the single ones . Explain to us how being married makes one woman more deserving of reproductive healthcare than the other. I’m waiting.

Acidosis:
Uterus is uterus but how many single ladies can gladly say yes to "hysterectomy"?? You want to do what a mother of five does with her body but when the doctor tells you to remove your womb, you will run.

The world really needs more women who are realists. Unfortunately, many of you aren't. Even some acclaimed nurses who should know better (that marital status play a lot of role in healthcare) have continually sacrificed their professional practice and knowledge on the altar of gender fight/equality.

Acidosis:
The only problem here is that many of you won't start this sermon in your households, with your sons and brothers.

This sermon gets preached in my household.

Help us increase the volume and reach of the message.

elantraceey:
It's simple. People should stop paying attention to what people say because no matter what you do, people both men and women will still talk. If you drop your 3 months old baby you laboured 9 months for at a crèche because of what people say, then that's even the lamest excuse available.

I’m sure she dropped the baby there because she needed the money not because of what nairalanders will say. I doubt she knows NL exists.

Realistically, people need money to live.

The people’s opinion aspect of it is my analysis and calling out those who speak out of both sides of their mouths.

elantraceey:
No one calls a 3 month old nursing mother lazy, enough with that lame excuse abeg.

Even if the baby were to be one year old, they will still call her lazy.

The case of the 18 month or so old kid that was beaten by the teacher to death, people had similar comments about what the tender child was doing in school.

Feel free to call it lame excuses but it shows you haven’t been paying attention to what these people say and how they will make sure all blame lays at the foot of the mom whether she had a choice or not

Angy55:
I think you have an issue. Just deal with it. Next time do not quote me.

Tell me more. What’s the issue I have?

Make sure you’re stacking your money in anticipation for that time.

Have money saved up for at least 6 months to one year of expenses so that you won’t start disturbing us on nairaland about your “lazy wife” who refuses to work since she had a baby.

lagosrd:
Hopeless mothers everywhere. So what is her gain now after labouring fo 9months and she couldn't wait for just 6months to make sure the baby is matured enough to stay without the mother.

Everything is not evil spirit as we can always avoid catastrophe like this.
3month old baby, that woman will leave my house. The work she went for now , she won't be able to do , even the money she makes there will be spent be her alone in most cases.

This is a good example to other young ladies to allow their children to grow before returning to work. If the work will not allow you take care of your kids, abeg find alternative one.

The very careless and hopeless creche too also ignorantly left the poor child to die and they couldn't explain. No even in this yahoo days I can never leave any of my children to complete strangers Never.

Meanwhile, if your pick your child at the creche and there is a pattern of always sleeping abeg go straight into the class of the teacher , open her bag and see what she has been giving them.

It’s damn near exhausting at this point.

dominique:
Sharrap! Your likes will shame stay at home mums, cal them liabilities that bring nothing to the table and deserves whatever mistreatment she faces in marriage. You confused bunch she stay at home moms for eating and sleeping all day, shame career women for having jobs yet you call women confused. It's you people that are confused. If you want a wife that brings something to the table, then bear in mind that she must need help with the babies.

thesicilian:
Name calling doesn't stop you from doing what's right. Afterall you women call us all sorts of names and we still love and care for you

Who’s calling you names? And what names did they call you?

americaninja1:
Normally 3 months old should be strictly on breastfeeding, mama’s body heat, and 24/7 monitoring. The woman is heartless. I don’t think u guys know how 3months baby looks like, too fragile to be left out of the mum’s sight for too long.

She’s heartless cos she needs to pay her bills?

I’m convinced many of you commenting here don’t even know what it takes to survive in today’s world.

Marcofranz:
Mumu! A woman negligently killed her child and you are here justifying nonsense.
Ogun kee you there.

keep quiet and listen once in a while.
Read the post you quoted again and see if maybe you should be learning from her

Such utter bullshiet

It’s easier for you to assume she’s a single mother because that way you can blame her entirely instead of considering that she might have a “provider” husband or partner who can’t even cover their bills hence she needs to work.

Some of you are so annoying.

“ThE moDern wOman” yen yen yen

Oscillator:
the modern woman is confused and in turmoil.

Caught in-between the need to be a mother and a wife and a provider she has become none but a ghost to her former glory.

I'm assuming she's a single mother...so ladies stay the fúck away from indiscriminate raw sex, it weighs more on you in many ways than in a man.

You will never get a more frustrated woman ,wicked and confused woman than a single mother

osazsky:
madam if u like go drop ur child of 1month in sch wat is my biz.but just like these case if u run to nairaland i dont have any rip to waste in d future i am just telling u now

IbileIfe:
If you cannot sit down to care for your children, don't even get pregnant.
Creches in NIgeria are run by unqualified people who just want money from irresponsible mothers.

Angy55:
What is a 3 month old baby doing in a creche?

thesicilian:
The job of a woman is to care for her baby, otherwise she shouldn't have any at all. But you "woke" folks will not want to hear that because you have been brainwashed into thinking that abandoning children to make a career is the modern thing to do. When someone speaks the harsh uncomfortable truth, everyone shouts "crucify him!"
Well, maybe now that the baby has been killed by the carelessness of strangers, she should have more time for her job.

Codebite:
Why are people in so much hurry to get back to work after giving birth, so three months old now have access to creche? Wow I never knew

Because y’all won’t pay their bills.

You will call them lazy dependent house wives if they stayed home. That’s why. Many of you love to speak from both sides of your mouth.

This

AmazonTopaz:
You know what, I think we should be advocating for male vasectomies because men can impregnate as many women at a go yet they don't get held to a standard in playing their own part in preventing unwanted pregnancies which could lead to abortions they get a pass while women get to bear the brunt.

If men were open to vasectomies believe me women would not be having unwanted pregnancies that may lead to abortions.

In countries where abortions are legal because of easy access to family planning and even the abortion services the rate of abortions are much lower but in countries where it is not legal it doesn't mean that it does not happen o they just go through the back door alley to get abortions which could be life threatening for them

Indeed. I could write a whole book on this matter.

And it’s not even a desire for self preservation per se. One just gets tired of sounding like a broken record saying the same thing over and over.
I’ve written a few epistles about it in the past.

Saintmary:
First I recognize your desire for self preservation that keeps you from wading into these murky waters of quasi-activism.
But I personally don't care to protect the sensitivities of people who can not offer the same to others.


Now we have single women who are not single by choice (it takes two to tango , right?)

On top of that some of these women, while still looking out for love, still have responsibilities, parents, kids etc.


It's not fair to lump every woman who happens to be sans husband as irresponsible, loose and not smart enough to be still single.

Shouldn't it be right to leave the women who are biding their time until they find favorable conditions before saying I do to their choices?


Let me use an analogy:


Rulers don't envy their subjects, because they are above them, in fact they pity them, because they are living in better conditions.


It's safe to suppose that a bully actually feels inadequate, that's why they have to compensate by picking on someone to feel bigger.


Doing everything in your power to make someone feel less, that's bullying to me, and I see these women as bullies.


I love all humans, regardless of gender or whatever demographic you belong to.

I love the institution of Marriage, in fact my idealism makes me take too much time due to my perfectionism.


But throwing strange vibes, passive-aggressive silliness over this status competition is tiring, it drains energy.

It's ridiculous.



Everyone should just live and let live, is that too much to ask?


Don't discriminate against single women, they are not the cause of your problems.
(addressing bullies directly, not you,my dear)


I don't even want to delve into infidelities and the attendant melodrama.


Please excuse my diatribe.

Prestonn:
Alright Mami, now i know how you like it, Let me return to the kitchen and get it done

Thank you!

lalabamba:
i pity the boy. this man lives on a tight budget. he cant live in his apartment. the best he can do for him is pay for hotel for one week with his credit card

How did he get a credit card?

kkins25:
To me both of them are victims. unfortunate, that in this day and era, a man still blames his wife for infertility.
Hopefully, they'd heal with time.
More so, what kind of power did the man have over her that forced her to get help from her son? how did the news also break out?

what hormones make women this submissive and why to tyrants?

Victim my behind.

So she raped her son?
Because that’s what it sounds like to me.
Statutory rape

Height of disgusting