₦airaland Forum

Freeze has been switching his arguments and contradicting himself when arguing about tithes.
I f we remember well when he first appeared on the scene with the anti tithe movement he was saying Jesus never asked us to tithe and now Mathew 23:23 has shattered all that he has to go back to the scripture and try to nullify some biblical analogy related to tithe.

JeromeBlack:
Stop lying abeg. The guy correctly pointed out the many failures of these rich pastors

Success is relative and so anybody can see failure in even successful people.
What I highlighted was Jesus' stance on monetary seed towards God, The poor and The Church. Counter those and stop switching monikers. By the way what have you done for humanity better than the pastors you seek to pull down?

hoopLA:
You people can't stop being predictable.

Unless you are not being honest, we've moved past Matt23.23 and I'm done going back to that dead argument.
Why not read Matt 23.1-2 to understand that the vs 23 is used in context.
If you wont use context to understand where that came from and understand Christ position then you need to explain why you have a brain to keep taking verses in isolation to misquote the bible.

Why not tell us why you NEVER quite Deut14:22-29 and Duet 26:12?
Because
A) you are dishonest
B) you dont read the bible
C) you dont want to discover the real truth that your pastors are lying to you on this tithing issue.

I'm not even going to argue with you because apart from you being rather unitelligible you simply are just repeating the same old nonsense up and down.

And yes I will look at the pastor. Because they are the exact opposite if christ in everything.

Christ did not urge Peter to take from his sheep but rather to feed, tend and defend them . Your pastors are the exact opposite of what christ instructed them to be. So I will not pretend like you.

Disciplined?
Lol.

A disciplined pastor slaps an illiterate child. Would christ do that?
A disciplined pastor tells users hearsay to incite his congregation?
A disciplined pastor tells you that you wont go to heaven till you start paying tithe?
Lol. Stop worshiping these men and focus on Christ the author and finisher of your faith.

Please dont quote me with your stùpidity unless you have anything of note to say. You've been warned

You are ranting without providing any argument. That's more emotional than intellectual.

Lecturers will now strategize new waysy to keep eating their campus bushmeat...

Brilliant question.
They claim their religion demands the existense of sharia as part of their communion with their 'God' but they are willing to run to a land without sharia court or a land that is unislamic so to say.

This is just a pointer to the fact that Islam is a religion of mob or jungle religion that depends on numbers, violence and tries to dominate others physically. It is like a cult. No real benefits so they claim leaving Islam is forbidden. They know people will leave so they come up with a mob arrangement ( sharia ) that can go after people who try to leave.
Islam is just like a canal version of old testament.

Man is essentially a spirit and soul with a body.

hoopLA:
I think you know.

A few conmen have noticed that Christians hardly ever touch their bible let alone read it. So they twist it to suit their agenda (i.e. amassing wealth).

They deceive us by staging/claiming false miracles and using our ignorance against us by tying our destiny and salvation to tithe paying. Telling you that you can be rich here on earth if you are faithful in paying your tithe. Even when there is no scriptural evidence, basis or backing to support them. It's all about "grace to prosper".

And we mumuishly follow them

Because we have simply refused to read.

Jesus is clear about whom to give to. Jesus even says those who support the poor are candidates for heaven (Matt:25)
The Law is clear about whom the tithes (if we must pay) should go to.


But our pastors (who by the way are assuming the roles of "spiritual levites" will tell you to give to the church instead of the poor.

We know how we got here

Oga tithe is different from charity.

In Mathew 23:23 Jesus only readjusted the preference of the list of what the Pharisees were doing and didn't condemn or remove any of the items on that list. read that scripture properly again.

Same Jesus advised us to do charity with one hand without the other hand knowing is the same Jesus who endorsed tithe in Mathew 23:23 and is same Jesus who asked us to give unto Ceasar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.
Stop letting prosperity of church of church look like pastors are living luxurious lifestyle. Most of those top men of God moving you guys to type funny thing are very deligent and disciplined people who don't entertain wastage.

InansBobo:
God's is as prescribed in the bible.

does God's include money or material items and to who does it go to?

LordReed:
Did you get a brain touch? You already answered this so what is causing this aggression now?

i thought you asked it twice. Apology tenderred.

LordReed:
How frequently do they use it? Every day? Once a week?

they use it almost every week in winners ( oyedepo ). Its most busy period of use is the church leadership needs to go round the major state branches and intl stations. It can be in persistent use for months. Imagine going to two branches per state then just 10 of the africa based international stations yearly. Add the more unpredictable aid mission to it also.
That's almost a busy allround yearly schedule. People just saw picture of Oyedepo using it and they assume he is going to play golf or just flying it. He works more than 19 hrs a day and hardly rests.

LordReed:
OK so when a pastor in Port Harcourt wants to travel to Kano they send the jet to him?

stop feigning ignorance and dont try to force words i dont mean out of me. Its use is mostly for movement that dont match the public airline movement or international missions. Get it?

LordReed:
And these situations justify paying the daily toll for parking the jet(s) as opposed to just hiring one when you need it?

if people who barely use theirs for pleasure park and pay for it why not a church that is always using theirs?

How much does it cost hire one by the way? Also do you think hiring one will be economically a wise way to go when they use it more than they park it?

LordReed:
So under what circumstances does any of the junior pastors get to use the jet?

like i said earlier intra africa national movement is extremely unpredictable. Also aids to certain crisis prone nations require a junior pastor and not the GO.
To me the church needs a bigger aircraft as the smaller one have to make too many trips at times.

alBHAGDADI:
We will know who owns them when those men die.

did rccg former go hand over to his family?

LordReed:
OK so when a pastor in Port Harcourt wants to travel to Kano they send the jet to him?

Not neccesarily. Kano-phc is a busy route and i don't think it is wise to spend more the cost of kano-phc to fuel the jet.

Connoisseur:
I

You mailed me. What's it about?

Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

What is God's here ?

alBHAGDADI:
Be sincere, who owns RCCG and Winners Chapel?

To me, God does. That's why adeboye was able to become GO after their former GO. Adeboye wont be there forever. So God owns the church and sent his prophets to oversee them.

Who owns Nigeria by the way?

alBHAGDADI:
He's expecting Christians to just start feeding every random person who has chosen to be lazy. Worse is that he expects tithe money meant for God to be taken directly to such lazy junkies.

Most people are going around without a purpose and that has made it hard for them to differentiate their needs from wants. Worse part is they are in good position to meet their own needs but pride and greed will make them to be eyeing their neighbor's own.

MrPresident1:
My neighbour is not your responsibility per se, hahaha, Come and see a Christian.

Commonsense is profitable to direct.

Counter the explanation with facts and stop play sentimental politics here.
Why should I do menial jobs and then start showing mumuish love to my neighbor who is too ashamed to go and hustle. If he is crippled or disabled or something along that line then I can consider him/her for assistance but not when he maintains needless habits like drinking, smoking, chain wearing and then starts reminding of the scripture to get what I have.

2 Thes 3:11-12 also supports my points. counter it logically and stop the emotional blackmail.

alBHAGDADI:
Are those jets belonging to the church or the GOs?

If it takes that long to connect African countries, then what is the big deal? You even said it is because commercial airlines are usually empty seats, but you went on to mention pastors of churches traveling in bulk. Can't they all fill those empty seats?

I have no huge problem with churches having private jets especially when the church is not owned by one individual who is Lord over all.

The belong to the church and are used by the church for winners and redeem that I know. Some other small churches use them a GO property though. Like Oritsejafo's own.

The private jets are usually less than 10 seats in capacity unlike commercial flights of 50 seats and above. If pastors decide to fill the commercial flights for filling sake then they will have to incur another kind of wastage again.

Mathew 22:21 Give unto ceasar things that are ceasars and unto God things that are God's. So what are the God's ?

MrPresident1:
The house of God is the widows orphans the needy and all other kinds of people in need immediately around you and in the society. What Jesus is against is legalistic, self- righteous, pharisaical, hypocritical tithe paying, while abandoning the weightier matters of the law of God. When tithing is done in a legalistic way, it produces a self-righteous, indulgent and hypocritical attitude, this is not the purpose of God.


Your nearest neighbour is your responsibility, you cannot see him hungry and then carry your money to 'church', that hungry fellow is your church. If you want God's blessing, then make sure your neighbour is well fed, sheltered, and clothed. The society is the church, church is the society.

My neighbor isnt my responsibility per se. In 2 Thessalonians 3 : 11 - 12 Apostle Paul clearly tells us to ignore busybodies and lazy neighbors who refuse to work.
You tell me if you are jobless as an accountant and decide to take a good paying truck driver job and then have another neighbor who is a trained mechanical engineer but he is waiting for a white collar job oil job and then claiming to a needy soul, will you take that you lazy and proud neighbor as your responsibility also ?

when the bible talks a bout the needy souls it doesn't include the busybodies who are in good position to do something meaningful for themselves but do nothing out of pride and greed.

Jesus was a logical and spiritual man on earth unlike freeze and co.

alBHAGDADI:
Is anything wrong with commercial airlines?

yes. flight connecting African nnations that are expected totake less than 24 hrs sometimes take over a week and cost more because of empty seats cost they have to transfer to those boarding the flight.

If you think a church that hates wastage and manages resource at unprecedented level will go buy a jet and start running it wastefully then you are mistaken. Winners built a 15 mw plant at N1.8Bn, show me any church or govt that beats that. Check their covenant uni stadium cost to quality ratio and show me a better one around.
check their senate building cost also and compare it to popular govt buildings like the N24Bn EFCC building (EFCC oh and not NNPC).
There are private individuals with far less travelling to do that own jets and I dont know what you expect a church with over 20,000 employee and many stations across Africa to do. Dangote and his top staffs don't travel as much as winners pastors combined but they have a jet. Dont forget these same jets sometimes serve as relief material cargo plane.

Let us be honest, the church (winners / redeem etc ) needs more jets and that doesn't mean everybody needs a private jet like some much smaller ministries with few stations within Nigeria are trying to make it a thing of fashion.

Omololu001:
I can never pay tithes in all this churches owned by a single person were they see him as a god..I can't pay tithes in chuches like redeem,winners chapel,deeper life etc
I know of a Nigerian man in USA, he is a pastor,redeem sponsored him to the USA to start a church in the 90's but he is now running his own church, he now has two branch in Lagos and one in Ondo state, he is about to buy a property in Maryland and build a church on it...he ones said to me that church is a business.

My parent do attend Baptist church, I don't go to church but that's the only church I can pay tithe cause if the way baptist church is structured, people ask question about how money is been spent not like all this one man church were the head pastor use money to buy private jet and live a good life with his family

Well Winners ( LFC ) do use their jet for the world mission runs and I wonder how you know it is the GO or head pastor enjoying it. Even junior pastor can use it if there be demand for such.

amaniro:
Educational sector and Oil sector should both be overhauled.

agreed

Nasir123:
..Even the quota being shared is not being managed/ utilize properly.
Where a state like Bayelsa (with all her allocation n limited workforce) still owe salary. While them n their family members live large on tax payers money.
Things like that should not be accepted in a sane environment.

God bless Nigeria.

Nigeria is just a war booty. The civil war booty.

Seun:
Do you believe that Jesus demanded monetary tithes from his followers when he was still alive?

He encouraged it in Mathew 23 : 23.
I consider that an implicit demand.

kitaatita:
1. From each according to his means and to each according to his needs.
2. Freewill gifts and donations
3. Volunteering

hmmm . . . Are u against tithes like freeze?

Judas was a treasurer among the disciples, managing the wealth of Jesus/Jesus Church, so how was the church run? I hope this gets to daddy-Freeze himself.

I need simple direct answers.

There is no wireless technology anywhere also. How about that?