₦airaland Forum

Lol where is your proof that Jeremiah wrote 2 kings? See it's a guess work. It could be anybody from Jeremiah's time.

Why haven't you responded to my comments on how the bible proved your prophet to be a false one and an adulterer?

AntiChristian:
The OP is about Isaiah 37 and 2 Kings 19

Now the Author of Isaiah is Prophet Isaiah
While the Author of 2 Kings is Jeremiah
How come they wrote exactly the same thing in just one chapter?

Which author copied the other?

achorladey:
That he allowed OPONU peddling peddler enough to call one of the work of his hands OPONU because that creation didn't dance to your tune and saying una byes no dey finish.

Jehovah gave His only begotten son

But you'll say Jesus frowns against getting drunk. But in Cana he didn't care about them getting drunk.

Getting drunk and misuse of wine are what Jehovah God is against from the old testament.
Jesus whom the Koran confirms to be a perfect sinless man drank wine himself.
It makes the heart merry. It's a way of enjoying life.
I don't drink alcohol myself even though we're given the freedom. But i take palm wine some times.

The bible condemns have sex before marriage. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a girlfriend or fiancee before getting married.
All you need do is control yourself and avoid committing sexual sins with your partner.

Drinking moderately is not a sin!

Jesus never caution them

.
Were you there when it happened? Why making false assumptions?

It seems na this part pain you pass right?

Abeg no de reason like small pikin

Jesus knew best than any prophet that ever lived. Not every single details were recorded.
He would have warned them of getting drunk.

Ona na no de reason. If drinking alcoholic wine was something that bad and was a sin, don't you think the people that wrote the bible would have removed the verses from the scriptures?

Why would someone drink 7 bottles of beer haaa!

AntiChristian:
But Jesus supports drinking Alcohol and doesn't prohibit Gambling! Even in Cana where he gave them quality booze, same people that drank the previous wine still drank the new wine.
Do you remember the chairman of the occasion saying "Everyone serves the best wine first, and the cheap kind when people are drunk. But you have kept the best wine until now!" from John 2:10.

Jesus's first miracle was to increase people in drunkenness!

For God so loved the world...

achorladey:
OPONU peddling peddler saw the content of HIS OPONU peddling then and seek to be free from UNNECESSARY talk aka OPONU peddling.

Since the word OPONU was brought into the discussion by you. Free yourself from OPONU peddling.



The byes don become question matter. .

OPONU peddling peddler the choice to free yourself is not within my Jurisdiction.

Contradictions and difficulty of the Koran _part 2

The Quran exhorts believers, in fact mankind in general, to be kind to parents:

Say: ‘Come, I will tell you what your Lord has made binding on you: that you shall serve no other gods besides Him; that you shall show kindness to your parents; that you shall not kill your children because you cannot support them (We provide for you and for them); that you shall not commit foul sins, whether openly or in secret; and that you shall not kill – for that is forbidden by God – except for a just cause. Thus God exhorts you, that you may grow in wisdom.’ S. 6:151; cf. 4:36

Your Lord has enjoined you to worship none but Him, and to show kindness to your parents. If either or both of them attain old age in your dwelling, show them no sign of impatience, nor rebuke them; but speak to them kind words. Treat them with humility and tenderness and say: ‘Lord, be merciful to them. They nursed me when I was an infant.’ S. 17:23-24

The fact that the command to be kind to one’s parents is repeatedly listed right after the central command of Islam, to worship none but Allah, gives special emphasis to it and can only mean that this command is to be taken very seriously. Furthermore, the Quran repeats this command in various ways in several other passages:

(We enjoined man to show kindness to his parents, for with much pain his mother bears him, and he is not weaned before he is two years of age. We said: ‘Give thanks to Me and to your parents. To me shall all things return. But if they press you to serve besides Me deities you know nothing of, do not obey them. Be kind to them in this world, and follow the path of those who turn to Me. To Me you shall return, and I will declare to you all that you have done.’) S. 31:14-15; cf. 29:8

We have enjoined man to show kindness to his parents. With much pain his mother bears him, and with much pain she brings him into the world. He is born and weaned in thirty months. When he grows to manhood and attains his fortieth year, let him say: ‘Inspire me, Lord, to give thanks for the favours You have bestowed on me and on my parents, and to do good works that will please You. Grant me good descendants. To You I turn and to You I surrender myself.’
Such are those for whom We will accept their noblest works and whose misdeeds We shall overlook. We shall admit them among the heirs of Paradise: true is the promise that has been given them.
But he that rebukes his parents and says to them: ‘For shame! Do you threaten me with a resurrection, whom generations have passed away before me?" – he that, when they pray for God’s help and say: ‘Woe to you! Have faith. The promise of God is true,’ replies: ‘This is but a fable of the ancients’ – S. 46:15-17

The interesting thing about this is that some of the above passages expressly mention the fact that some parents will be disbelievers who will even try to dissuade their children from following Islam. Yet Muslims must, nonetheless, still be kind to their parents.

Yet, the foregoing instructions directly conflict with the following verses which prohibit Muslims from loving and befriending unbelievers, even if they happen to be their own parents:

Let believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful – he that does this has nothing to hope for from God – except in self-defence. God admonishes you to fear Him: for to Him you shall all return. S. 3:28

Believers, do not befriend your fathers or your brothers if they choose unbelief in preference to faith. Wrongdoers are those that befriend them.
Say: ‘If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your tribes, the property you have acquired, the merchandise you fear may not be sold, and the homes you love, are dearer to you than God, His apostle and the struggle for His cause, then wait until God shall fulfill His decree. God does not guide the evil-doers.’ S. 9:23-24

It will not help to claim that the term befriend (auliya) in Q. 3:28 and 9:23 actually means protectors, i.e. that Muslims are not to seek the protection of unbelievers even if they be their parents, since this word is used in specific contexts to denote friendship:

Behold! verily on the friends of God (auliya Allahi) there is no fear, nor shall they grieve; S. 10:62 Y. Ali

Unless Muslims want to argue that even Allah has people who protect him, this passage should make it clear that auliya refers to taking someone as a friend.

And as if this weren’t enough to show that the obvious meaning of Q. 9:23 is that Muslims are not to take their unbelieving parents as friends, Q. 58:22 takes it a step further by saying that true believers do not love their own parents who reject Muhammad:

Thou wilt not find any people who believe in God and the Last Day, loving those who resist God and His Apostle, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). God will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of God. Truly it is the Party of God that will achieve Felicity. Y. Ali

With these points in mind, it is very hard to see how Muslims are able to show kindness to their parents when they cannot even befriend or love them! After all, what type of kindness is this, which actually prohibits Muslims from even loving, let alone befriending, their parents?

Note, as well, that Q. 58:22 says that "For such He has written Faith in their hearts" which implies that the Muslims not loving even their parents is "the mark of a true believer," being a sign that Allah has put faith in their hearts! Basically, this means that faith in Islam results in a believer receiving strength and determination to hate anyone who opposes Muhammad, even if they happen to be the closest of relatives! It forbids them to love them, to honor them, to treat them in friendship. And the Islamic source materials show how far this can go in extreme instances:

They (the narrators) said: The Apostle of Allah sent a force under al-Dahhak Ibn Sufyan Ibn ‘Awf Ibn Abu Bakr al-Kilabi, against al-Qurara. Al-Asyad Ibn Salamah Ibn Qart was with him. They encountered them at al-Zujj, the Zujj of Lawah and invited them to embrace Islam. They refused, so they attacked them and forced them to flee. Then al-Asyad met his father Salamah who was on his own horse, in a pond of al-Zujj. He invited his father to embrace Islam promising him amnesty. He (father) abused him and his creed. Consequently al-Asyad hamstrung the horse of his father. When the horse fell on his hoofs Salamah reclined on his spear in water. He (al-Asyad) held him till one of them (Muslims) came there and killed him. His son did not kill him. (Ibn Sa’ad’s Kitab Al-Tabaqat Al-Kabir, English translation by S. Moinul Haq, M.A., PH.D assisted by H.K. Ghazanfar M.A. [Kitab Bhavan Exporters & Importers, 1784 Kalan Mahal, Daryaganj, New Delhi - 110 002 India], Volume II, p. 201)

Thus, Muhammad’s religion destroys the relationship between Muslim convert children and their still non-Muslim parents.

In this case, the son puts before his own father the choice of embracing Islam now or death. He prevents his father from fleeing. The son is the direct cause that his father is killed by his fellow Muslims.

For contrast: Abu Talib, the uncle of Muhammad, protected him against the opponents of Islam in Mecca. Abu Talib remained a pagan until his death. He did not believe in Muhammad’s message, but he gave Muhammad the freedom to believe differently and even to preach his message to the people. Muhammad and his followers did not return this favor when they became powerful, but instead forced the alternative of Islam or death even upon their closest relatives.

Clearly, Abu Talib in his "unbelief" was nobler and more civilized than Muhammad and his followers.

Muslim sources report another instance where a Muslim son is willing to kill his non-Muslim father:

According to Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Muhammad b. Ishaq- 'Asim b. 'Umar b. Qatadah: 'Abdallah b. 'Abdallah b. Ubayy b. Salul came to the Messenger of God and said: "Messenger of God, I have been told that you want to kill 'Abdallah b. Ubayy because of what has been reported to you concerning him. If you are going to do it, command me to do it and I will bring you his head. By God, al-Khazraj know that there has never been among them a man more dutiful to his father than I. I am afraid that you may order someone else to do it and that he may kill him; and then my soul will not allow me to look on the slayer of 'Abdallah b. Ubayy walking among the people: I would kill him, killing a believer to avenge an unbeliever, and thereby enter the Fire [of Hell]." The Messenger of God said, "No, we will be gentle with him and associate with him on friendly terms as long as he stays with us." Thus, after that day whenever he did anything objectionable, it was his own tribesmen who reproved him, corrected him, censured him, and threatened him. When word of how they were behaving reached the Messenger of God, he said to 'Umar b. al-Khattab: "What do you think, Umar? By God, had I killed him the day you ordered me to kill him, prominent men would have been upset, who, if I ordered them today to kill him, would do so." 'Umar said, "Now by God I know that what the Messenger of God ordered had more of a blessing in it that what I would have ordered." (The History of al-Tabari: The Victory of Islam, translated by Michael Fishbein [State University of New York Press (SUNY), Albany 1997], Volume VIII (, p. 55)

Being a devout Muslim, the son does not question Muhammad’s right to command that his father be killed.[1] He even seems to consider it meritorious to follow that order. He does not fear that killing his own father would send him to hell, but only that avenging the murder by killing the murderer would do so.

Both cases illustrate Q. 9:23 and 58:22. Just as they were commanded, their Muslim faith and devotion to Muhammad has suppressed in them the natural love and loyalty towards their parents.

To summarize the contradictory statements in the Quran regarding the treatment of disbelieving parents:

¶On the one hand, the Quran commands all Muslims to show kindness to their parents, even if they are disbelievers (Q. 17:23-24, 31:14-15, 29:8, etc.).

¶On the other hand it demands not to show any love or friendship to those who oppose Muhammad, even if they are their parents (Q. 9:23, 58:22).

Unless stated otherwise, all quotations taken from the N. J. Dawood version of the Quran.

Authors :Sam Shamoun and Jochen Katz


The Koran is clearly man's idea no contradictions

No mind them jàre. Whale no fit survive inside flood water?
Isn't God powerful to make them survive if they can't survive in flood naturally?

Ochelyko1:
Clap for yourself!!! The Qur'an and scientist. And the Bible is now false ba? Well I don't even need to pick an argument with u because there's no attom of truth either in ur Qur'an or in those scientist.

The Bible said God filled the Earth with flood. And you are here telling me that scientist say dis or that. Tell me after the flood which other people exist apart from Noah and his family?

Understanding the world of God is not just what u can get with ur human mind but what u recieved from the spirit of God who passeth all understanding through Christ Jesus.

No scientist can even tell about their existence without pointing to the Bible.

But just as Bible say the foolishness of God is wiser than all the wisdom of man put together.
Noah didn't carry any animal to the ark in the first place so to me the question is baseless because is not accordingly to the word of God.

Noah only build the Ark and create a part for the animals to go in and am sure God is involved in everything And as u know it wasn't Noah that shut the gate of the ark but God so God knows what he has done and ur answer can only be given to u through His Spirit

Jesus existed, died, resurrected and ascended to heaven. Jehovah will save mankind through him, as many as are willing to exercise faith in Christ Jesus.

sonmvayina:
God can never be a man...

Man is dust

To even think so is insulting to the creator of heaven and earth. God is the creator. He can't be part of creation..He is outside of space and time..

Jesus ( if at all he existed which I strongly doubt) can't be God...

A mamzer at best...

Abeg Chief òpònú peddling peddler free me from unnecessary talk na.
Must you make long discussion about "byes"? That's how you did with "could" Haa!!

achorladey:
OPONU peddling peddler when I said I see byes, you should know it is what I saw in your post but OPONU peddling peddler is asking me about the one in my post

AntiChristian
"and not that he turned water to booze in Cana wedding lol"

Na your wahala be that. God of the bible never prohibited his servants from drinking alcoholic wine. He is only against getting drunk.

Jesus the perfect and sinless man himself drank alcoholic wine.

If you won't leave it won't finish oga Ade

achorladey:
I still dey see byes

Whose bye is that in highlight òpònú

Comot make the byes finish

achorladey:
I don talk my own una byes no dey finish

Why did Allah and Mohammed plagiarize stories from the BIBLE?
Isn't it obvious that the Koran copied from the BIBLE?
You don't reason at all.

If the Torah and gospel were the only books given by Allah to Jews and christians , and these books has been completely or partially lost, how come the Koran has some similar stories as the BIBLE?

Do you think the revelation given to Moses and Jesus could contain such stories and events?

I told you the Bible's nature is different. It contains real accounts and events.

In my post where I showed you how Allah can't be the same God of Moses, the laws Mohammed gave that were supposedly revealed to him from God contrast the laws given to Moses.

The laws given to Moses about adultery and divorce prove Mohammed to be a false prophet and an aldulterer.
I can understand why you haven't responded to the post

You could come and say Mohammed was an exception. He was given special privileges by Allah

Even Jesus lived a sinless and perfect life.

Why would someone that claimed to be the seal of prophets bring another law that's contrary to the ones first established?
The problem is not bringing another law and religion, the problem is bringing laws that are substandard to the previous laws.

If Mohammed and Allah had brought more perfect laws and lived according to the laws, he could be considered as a true prophet.

AntiChristian:
Oxford online defines Plagiarism as the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.

Now since the author of Isaiah and 2 Kings are not the same, then we expect Isaiah 37 and 2 Kings 19 to be very much not similar but in reality it is word for word, Check below:

Isaiah 37:1-14
Jerusalem’s Deliverance Foretold
37 When King Hezekiah heard this, he tore his clothes and put on sackcloth and went into the temple of the Lord. 2 He sent Eliakim the palace administrator, Shebna the secretary, and the leading priests, all wearing sackcloth, to the prophet Isaiah son of Amoz. 3 They told him, “This is what Hezekiah says: This day is a day of distress and rebuke and disgrace, as when children come to the moment of birth and there is no strength to deliver them. 4 It may be that the Lord your God will hear the words of the field commander, whom his master, the king of Assyria, has sent to ridicule the living God, and that he will rebuke him for the words the Lord your God has heard. Therefore pray for the remnant that still survives.”.......................... till end of chapter

2 Kings 19
Jerusalem’s Deliverance Foretold
19 When King Hezekiah heard this, he tore his clothes and put on sackcloth and went into the temple of the Lord. 2 He sent Eliakim the palace administrator, Shebna the secretary and the leading priests, all wearing sackcloth, to the prophet Isaiah son of Amoz. 3 They told him, “This is what Hezekiah says: This day is a day of distress and rebuke and disgrace, as when children come to the moment of birth and there is no strength to deliver them. 4 It may be that the Lord your God will hear all the words of the field commander, whom his master, the king of Assyria, has sent to ridicule the living God, and that he will rebuke him for the words the Lord your God has heard. Therefore pray for the remnant that still survives.”......................till end of chapter.

This is a "word for word" kind of plagiarism.

Now the Author of Isaiah is Prophet Isaiah
While the Author of 2 Kings is Jeremiah
How come they wrote exactly the same thing in just one chapter?

Which author copied the other?

Jesusjnr , cornelboy

achorladey:
I don hear you. I go pack and go myself. Na me use my leg waka come. When I am done I will go.

At least I know una byes no dey finish.

How byes go finish when you no gree comot for person thread?
If you chose to stay here for eternity, the byes go remain for eternity..

My bye means pack your load baba

achorladey:
You want make we comot from your thread Or you want to abandon the thread?

Which one?

So that we can be like TOTAL energies motto which states you know where to TURN

Una byes no dey finish.

I don leave you on your own o.
Na ona no wan leave my thread.
My bye means to comot from my thread

achorladey:
I read it and brought it forward for you to read again paapaa. I can still bring it back whenever you want it.



I have done that multiple times during typing my response paapaa.



key from the above is FREEDOM and CRITICIZE. Learn you no gree.



Keywords here to us....... discussed, criticized, abrogating the freedom, controlled.


Good you are coming to terms to see the distinction at play here. Learn.



Una byes no dey finish. You go come running back soon.

I'm just saying bro.
The Koran itself is a prove that Mohammed is the source of his supposed revelation.

sonmvayina:
Have you ever seen a law that is more beautiful and perfect than the Torah?

I say go and read it again
The first highlighted gave me freedom to use any word but in actual sense you always criticize me when i use the word could

The second highlighted however says that because nairaland is a public forum how i use my word can be discussed/criticized/controlled abrogating the freedom given me in highlighted 1

Bye

achorladey:
I read it and brought it forward for you to read again paapaa




Na you carry yourself come nairaland in the first place. Japa whenever you want.




Na contradictions

Learn.

theseeker2:
Noah did not carry whales or the entire animal and plant kingdom in the ark as wrongly recorded by the bible. Scientist make a mockery of the Noah flood because the bible wrongly cliams it was universal flood and every thing on earth outside the ark perished

the quran however correctlyy narrated that the flood was local only to the people of Noah and environs. Meaning his conservation efforts is only for native species and there was no break in human civilization.  scientist have  conclusively  confirmed that an extensive flood occured in the mediternean basin during this time

this is just one of the few example of how bible makes religion a joke in the face of science. The quran on the other hand is 100 % scientifically and historically accurate.
I am open to any challanges(with evidence) on the contrary

Ọnà just de senseless, all of you.
How whale go take survive inside ark?
No be inside water whale de live?
Marine animals no get problem with flood na. Na inside water Dem de, Dem survive.
Mohammed wey copy story from the bible

How many nations where available in the time of Noah Mr Islam scientist

AntiChristian come help your brothers o

Even if he's bringing a law, it should be something more perfect not what's an abomination to YHWH GOD.

sonmvayina:
Prophets are people ordained by God to be his mouth peace.. There main job is to lead people back to God by encouraging them to keep God's laws. Any body coming to change the laws in the slightest way is not of God.

I personally think Allah corresponds to the moon god Nanna. There is no other deity that fits him...I might be wrong though.

I'm free to use any words i like!
Go read my comment again you go see the reasoning.
I no get your time jàre.
Free me make i Japa

achorladey:
You go learn



Show the contradictions the smart one. Based on your

1.



When Achorladey said.....



Show me from my post above where I teach you how to use the word could?




See person wey talk sey na contradictions and went ahead to state one out of the two contradictions is not TRUE. Since one of the contradictions is not true what is the basis of the contradictions in the first place. Which kind way of reasoning you get sef? Chai

Then you had to use ATTACK to support your agenda. This is a public forum not a battleground



You already know who you are and the kind of personality you be.



Owo yin lati ba. Eyin ni alabara ati alagbata igbo. Ti o baje igbo ti e n ta lo ba n ise owo je. A je pe ise owo ti e n se naa le ti fi igbo baje yen.

Waa kekoo

ManirBK:
Allahu Akbar.... May Allah increase her
knowledge and better understanding of the
glorious Qur'an.

All glory to the Koran that's full of unintelligible words and contradictions. You also need the Hadith before you can understand it and yet it claimed to be a miraculous book sent by God.
I like the way Mohammed copied events from the BIBLE.

1.

I have not hold you back from using any words of your choice or leanings.

2. This is nairaland forum. A public platform to discuss so many things including how words are used.

The highlighted 1 & 2 contradict each other baba amugbo.
You purposely said ".. INCLUDING how words are used".
The highlighted 1 is not even true cos you always attack me when i use the word could

Wa kekoo. At least you dey try follow my style of reply. Na small small learning dey take place.

Na your hand i learned name calling and insult from na when your cornered

O ti fi igbo tita kun ise owo re

O ti fi igbó mímu bá iṣẹ́ ọwọ́ rẹ jẹ́

achorladey:
Lol. When cornered una either go the way of name calling or insult or attaching labels to people.



Look at my words again below.....



Which words here states I am teaching you how to use word in what you coloured? Just one word that states so?

The reason I said

Then you added.....

Regarding smoking weeds, you mean that the package you delivered to my doorstep?

, Alabara ati alagbata igbo.

Could Allah be the same God of the Jews and Jesus


God’s true Word says:

"If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance." Deuteronomy 24:1-4

Muhammad, on the other hand, commands:

"A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness. It is not lawful for you, (men), to take back any of your gifts (from your wives), except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah. If ye (judges) do indeed fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah, there is no blame on either of them if she give something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained by Allah. So do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits ordained by Allah, such persons wrong (themselves as well as others). So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), he cannot, after that, remarry her until after she has married another husband and he has divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either of them if they re-unite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. Such are the limits ordained by Allah, which He makes plain to those who understand." S. 2:229-230

What Yahweh calls an abomination, Muhammad calls permissible!



Muhammad caused a split in the marriage of his adopted son, Zaid, and then proceeded to marry his ex-wife:

"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error. And (remember) when you said to him (Zaid bin Hârithah the freedslave of the Prophet) on whom Allâh has bestowed Grace (by guiding him to Islâm) and you (O Muhammad too) have done favour (by manumitting him) "Keep your wife to yourself, and fear Allâh." But you did hide in yourself (i.e. what Allâh has already made known to you that He will give her to you in marriage) that which Allâh will make manifest, you did fear the people (i.e., Muhammad married the divorced wife of his manumitted slave) whereas Allâh had a better right that you should fear Him. So when Zaid had accomplished his desire from her (i.e. divorced her), We gave her to you in marriage, so that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the believers in respect of (the marriage of) the wives of their adopted sons when the latter have no desire to keep them (i.e. they have divorced them). And Allâh's Command must be fulfilled. There is no blame on the Prophet in that which Allâh has made legal for him. That has been Allâh's Way with those who have passed away of (the Prophets of) old. And the Command of Allâh is a decree determined." S. 33:36-38 Hilali-Khan.

Jesus words:
Matthew 5:27-28,31-32
[27]“You have heard the commandment that says, ‘You must not commit adultery.’
[28]But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
[31]“You have heard the law that says, ‘A man can divorce his wife by merely giving her a written notice of divorce.’
[32]But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery. And anyone who marries a divorced woman also commits adultery.

An abomination to Yahweh

God’s true Word says:

"If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance." Deuteronomy 24:1-4

Muhammad, on the other hand, commands:

"A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness. It is not lawful for you, (men), to take back any of your gifts (from your wives), except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah. If ye (judges) do indeed fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah, there is no blame on either of them if she give something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained by Allah. So do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits ordained by Allah, such persons wrong (themselves as well as others). So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), he cannot, after that, remarry her until after she has married another husband and he has divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either of them if they re-unite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. Such are the limits ordained by Allah, which He makes plain to those who understand." S. 2:229-230

What Yahweh calls an abomination, Muhammad calls permissible!



Muhammad caused a split in the marriage of his adopted son, Zaid, and then proceeded to marry his ex-wife:

"It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allâh and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allâh and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error. And (remember) when you said to him (Zaid bin Hârithah the freedslave of the Prophet) on whom Allâh has bestowed Grace (by guiding him to Islâm) and you (O Muhammad too) have done favour (by manumitting him) "Keep your wife to yourself, and fear Allâh." But you did hide in yourself (i.e. what Allâh has already made known to you that He will give her to you in marriage) that which Allâh will make manifest, you did fear the people (i.e., Muhammad married the divorced wife of his manumitted slave) whereas Allâh had a better right that you should fear Him. So when Zaid had accomplished his desire from her (i.e. divorced her), We gave her to you in marriage, so that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the believers in respect of (the marriage of) the wives of their adopted sons when the latter have no desire to keep them (i.e. they have divorced them). And Allâh's Command must be fulfilled. There is no blame on the Prophet in that which Allâh has made legal for him. That has been Allâh's Way with those who have passed away of (the Prophets of) old. And the Command of Allâh is a decree determined." S. 33:36-38 Hilali-Khan.


Matthew 5:27-28,31-32
[27]“You have heard the commandment that says, ‘You must not commit adultery.’
[28]But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
[31]“You have heard the law that says, ‘A man can divorce his wife by merely giving her a written notice of divorce.’
[32]But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery. And anyone who marries a divorced woman also commits adultery.

The Quran makes this claim:

Verily, we have sent down the Reminder, and, verily, we will guard it. Q15:9

According to Muslim commentators like Ibn Kathir, this Reminder is the Quran since just a few verses before that we read in the same Surah:

But they say, ‘O thou to whom the Reminder has been sent down! verily, thou art possessed.’ Q15:6

Muslims say that, “O thou to whom the reminder has been sent down,” refers to Muhammad and therefore the Reminder spoken about here must be the Quran. Muslims conclude that this is Allah’s promise that the Qur'an cannot be corrupted and is accurately preserved to this day.

Some Christian apologists make the argument that the Reminder refers to all of Allah’s messages including the one revealed in the Bible. Muslims usually reject this claim and say that Allah guards only the Quran. Taking into account everything that the Quran says about the Scriptures of the Jews and the Christians, one can make a solid argument that the Quran presupposes that the Jews and Christians indeed possess God’s authentic and uncorrupted revelation . However, since Muslims often do not accept those arguments, the purpose of this paper is to show that their position leads to a set of logical problems. Thus, for argument’s sake I will go along with these Muslim claims, and explore where this interpretation will lead us when taken together with some other Muslim convictions.

In other places, the Quran makes the claim to be impeccable:

falsehood shall not come to it, from before it, nor from behind it - a revelation from the wise, the praiseworthy One. Q41:42

Do they not meditate on the Qur'ran? if it were from other than God they would find in it many a discrepancy. Q4:82

At the same time, Muslims believe that there are verses in the Quran which say that the previous Revelations have been corrupted:

O thou Apostle! let not those grieve thee who vie in misbelief; or those who say with their mouths 'We believe,' but their hearts do not believe; or of those who are Jews, listeners to a lie, - listeners to other people, but who come not to thee. They pervert the words from their places and say, ' If this is what ye are given, take it; but if ye are not given it, then beware!' but he whom God wishes to mislead, thou canst do nothing with God for him; these are those whose hearts God wishes not to purify, for them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the next is mighty woe, Q5:41; check also Q3:78, Q2:79, Q4:46 and Q5:13.

Still, the Quran commands the Muslims to believe in the previous Revelations:

who believe in what is revealed to thee (Muhammad), and what was revealed before thee, and of the hereafter they are sure. Q2:4

The Apostle (Muhammad) believes in what is sent down to him from his Lord, and the believers (Muslims) all believe on God, and His angels, and His Books, and His apostles,- we make no difference between any of His apostles,- they say, 'We hear and obey, Thy pardon, O Lord! for to Thee our journey tends. Q2:285

Say (O Muslims), 'We believe in God, and what has been revealed to thee, and what was revealed to Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and what was given to Moses, and Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord,- we will make no distinction between any of them,- and we are unto Him resigned. Q3:84

These previous Revelations include the following:

We did reveal the Torah (Tawrat), wherein is guidance and a light ... Q5:44

And already have we written in the Psalms (Zabur) after the reminder that the earth shall my righteous servants inherit.' Q21:105

Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel (Injil), containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous. Q5:46

Let us summarize the claims that were presented so far:

i. The Quran is preserved.
ii. God’s Revelations which preceded the Quran include the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel.
iii. These Books make up a large portion of the Holy Bible.
iv. The Quran, the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are all the Word of Allah.
v. God's Word does not change.
vi. The revelations that came before the Quran have become corrupted.
vii. Although Muslims should believe that these previous Books are the genuine Revelations from God,
they have to trust only the Quran as the final revelation and the only one that is preserved
We now have to deal with this logic:

¶The Quran, the Torah, the Psalms and the Gospel are all Allah’s Word.

¶The current Torah, Psalms and Gospel are corrupted.

¶The final word of Allah, the Quran is preserved.

1st Conclusion: Some of Allah’s Words are corrupted

2nd Conclusion: Some of Allah’s Words are preserved.

Based on the above generalizations we can construct these deductive arguments:

i. Major premise: Some of Allah’s Words are corrupted.
ii. Minor premise: The Quran is Allah’s Word.
Conclusion: The Quran could be corrupted.


Or we could do it another way:

i. Major premise: Some of Allah’s Words are preserved.
ii. Minor premise: The Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel are Allah’s Words.
iii. Conclusion: The Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel could be preserved.

The Main Problem

Since Allah allowed his previous Revelations to be corrupted by weak human people, this leads to one of the following assumptions about Allah:

Allah is a weak god; he could not protect his previous Revelations. He also gains more power and might throughout time, because he supposedly is now able to protect his last revelation, the Quran.

Allah does not care about people being misled by counterfeit revelations. And yet he will still punish individuals with hell fire because they follow a corrupted Message even though they may have not come to the realization that Allah had allowed it to be corrupted. That means Allah is unjust.

In light of the above, how can we trust that the Quran is preserved if these three Revelations are corrupted? How can a person trust that Allah did not fail to protect his so-called final revelation, the Quran, when he was too weak to prevent people from tampering with his previous Messages?

Maybe Allah needs to a send a fifth revelation? Perhaps he has already sent down this fifth book, and that is actually the revelation given to

Baha’ullah the founder of the Baha’i faith?

More importantly, how do Muslims reconcile their position with Allah’s claim in the Quran that “there is no changing the words of God”?


Muslims, you have to make a decision and choose one of these alternatives:


1. The Quran is preserved and the earlier Revelations are corrupted. In that case, Allah is either weak or he is unjust. That is the only explanation for his preservation of the Quran and letting people corrupt his previous Revelations.

2. The Quran is corrupted like the other Revelations. Then you should either not read it since you do not read other corrupted Revelations, or maybe you should read these other corrupted Revelations just as you insist on reading the corrupted Quran.

3. The Quran is preserved, and the previous Revelations have also been preserved. That means then you should read these authentic Revelations (the Bible) for yourself.

5. The Quran is corrupted but the earlier Revelations are preserved. Obviously, you should then abandon the Quran and read the Bible.

Just a second, I’m not finished yet.

If you picked option number three, then you will be faced with another problem. The Quran contradicts these previous Revelations in many essential points. That means that the Quran is a false message which cannot be from God since God is not the author of confusion. He could not reveal a message that contradicts his previous Messages.

If you do not like these alternatives, then tell me:

What exactly do you think is wrong with my above observations and conclusions?

If you do not accept my premises and therefore reject my conclusions, then:

PROVE TO ME THAT THE QURAN IS PRESERVED.

You have to do that in a rational way without quoting the Quran since that would only be a repetition of the claim, not a proof, or trying to prove that the previous Revelations are corrupted which in no way proves the Quran not to be corrupted, or providing me with (what I consider fake) scientific miracles in the Quran. I want you to resolve the philosophical problem outlined above.

Show me logically and rationally how the Muslim assertion of a perfectly preserved Quran together with an alleged corruption of God’s earlier Revelations is not an insult to God’s perfect justice and great power.

This is nairaland forum. A public platform to discuss so many things including how words are used.

You no smart na you words be this na.
Th highlighted is what I responded to.
Mr wise man

Stop smoking weeds and learn how to follow discussion
Se bi oni oo fe kẹkọ ni

achorladey:
This below is laughable

Is it inability to comprehend or deliberate action to divert into something else? See what you respond to below, compare with above



Then the below....



Irrelevant.

I have not hold you back from using any words of your choice or leanings.

But you are indirectly holding me back by constantly criticizing my using of "could".

Emusan this thread is pushing to 50 and chairman Max still de

MaxInDHouse:
Now you know what God's word says cannot be argued by anyone claiming "believer" it's the fact that only Jehovah's Witnesses practice what Jesus taught that your friends can join you in criticizing but as for extermination of unbelievers that's indisputable!

Did you even read my post at all. Or you just deliberately avoided my points?

Are you sure Islam is a religion of peace after all?
"By their fruit you will know them".

Will believing a God you obviously don't know as one save you?
Even Mohamed wasn't sure what Allah will do to him

OBALOLA55:
SENSELESS CHRISTIANS


YOU CANNOT BELIEVE IN GOD AND REJECT HIS MESSENGERS


YOU CANNOT BELIEVE IN CHRIST AND REJECT MOSES


PROPHETS OF GOD ARE HIGHER IN RANK THAN THE ANGELS

ALL PROPHETS OF GOD CAME WITH THE SAME MESSAGE, ONENESS OF GOD

MAKE UNA GET SENSE ABEG

How?

AntiChristian:
This is clumsy!

Qur'an is recited and memorised by millions. Sure tribal recitation would crept in after sometime hence the need for standardization!

Your a fool for believing this. No soul can recite the whole Koran correctly!
Are you part of this millions?

I have answered this before. The Qur'an copied and sent around was the standard made previously

Who made that standard?

i don't do literal meaning! You need to learn of the settings and context! Or else you will be ignorant and a lie peddlar!

Lol but you can quote the bible anyhow you like abi
Do you have problem giving me the settings and context?
You haven't responded to some of my post.
The bi le exposed Mohamed as a false prophet and aldulterer!

[quote author=AntiChristian post=110327547][/quote]

I think i can tell you that the more you post here the more you expose your ignorance! The Book you highlighted is revelation. It can be written or unwritten!

Throughout my life i have never seen any book unwritten. Perhaps you could explain better

Of cos i do! Prove that Genesis to Deuteronomy were in the Torah present in the time of our Prophet! Torah is not your old testament! You know this as the truth!

You made the claim that they are not written by Moses. You are the one to prove your lies!

Our Hadiths are traditions of the Prophet which was written much like your Bible written by people. The writers are not infallible hence hadiths are classified unlike your Bible.

That doesn't make it anything. The Koran can hardly be believed as the book God wrote Himself. It's full of unintelligible words and contradictions between it self and the Jews and christians book.
And without the Hadiths, the Koran is mostly hard to understand.
The nature of the bible is very different from the Koran.
The bible was written and compiled chronologically. It contains history about the children of Israel and every law God gave them in their journey was written in their books.
Genesis to Malachi.

All Prophets are sent to their nation/people/family and Allah makes it so that he speaks their language.
However the Prophet Muhammad was made an exception as
Allah, Exalted be He, says:

1. “Say (O Muhammad): ‘O mankind! Verily, I am sent to you all [/b]as the Messenger of Allah - to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth.’” (Surah Al-A’raf, 7:158)

2.“And We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner [b]to all mankind, but most men know not.” (Surah Saba’, 34: 28)

3. “And We have sent you (O Muhammad SAW) not but as a mercy for the Aalameen (mankind, jinns and all that exists)” [al-Anbiya’ 21:107].

How did Mohammed achieve this purpose? Did he really preach his message to all mankind?
In the light of Surah 14:4, is the Koran contradicting itself?

On the contrary, we know Muhammad was a descendant of Abraham through Ishmael. And Arabic is also a Semitic language just like Hebrew and Aramaic.

This is just mere unprovable assumption.
Mohammed is not a descendant of Abraham.
Yeah it's semitic cos they are in the same middle east.

[quote author=AntiChristian post=110327403][/quote]