₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
So Abraham’s bosom is also real? Or not.
Where is Abraham’s bosom?

Abraham's Bossom is not a literal place.

Jerryhare:
Am I the one setting standards in Matthew 10:1-42 or Jesus Christ? You need Holy Spirit in your evil religion Jehovah witnesses

If you can't bring the verse where God or Jesus condemn the use of medicine, go and sleep.

Abeg who dé heal the Jews before Jesus and his disciples were born or start their ministry?

A little sense is what you need.

Jerryhare:
Read from verses 11-16 you will understand it better. You can't just twist the word of God to suit your ignorant

Dude your empty.

Your logic is very weak.
If Jesus was using a parable to describe how "the kingdom of heaven" looks like or what it entails, definitely "the kingdom of heaven" is real place and the parables/illustrations might be made up.
Peace bro.

OkCornel:
So Jesus that spoke about Abraham's bosom and the place of torment is not inspired by God too?
Does Abraham's bosom exist? if the excuse is...Jesus was using it in his parables to pass across a message...
He also used parables to explain the kingdom of heaven. Does it also mean the kingdom of heaven/God is a fantasy place?

OkCornel:
Apparently, viewpoints on Sheol evolved between First Temple Judaism and Second Temple Judaism. Really has nothing to do with Greco-Roman influence.

If she'ol is any place other than a literal grave or hell why didn't God say anything about it throughout the Torah/OT?

The viewpoints that evolved from first temple Judaism and second temple Judaism are mere speculations. Not inspired by God.

Hismasterpiece:
So what your question have to do with Jesus's body?

What do you think about the topic?

Jerryhare:
Read Matthew 10:1-42
Jesus Christ gave his disciples power to heal all manner of sickness, he never instructed them to make use of herbal for healing.
You only need to find the real Jesus Christ in your life with your fellow members in that your occultist religion and stop visiting traditional herbalist for your healing

Your in no position to set standards for anyone.

I can use herbs or drugs to improve my health. It's not sin.

The last time I checked, JWs are against any form of occultism. You should stop tagging them as occultic.

Jerryhare:
This is what herb was created for according to Psalm 104:14
He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
That herb may bring forth FOOD. You need Holy Spirit to interprets this verse for you

All you need is a little sense not the holy spirit.

Explain 'herb for the service of man'

OkCornel:
BOSOM OF ABRAHAM;
"Bosom of Abraham" refers to the place of comfort in the biblical Sheol (or Hades in the Greek Septuagint version of the Hebrew scriptures from around 200 BC, and therefore so described in the New Testament) where the righteous dead abided prior to Jesus’ resurrection.
The phrase and concept are found in both Judaism and Christian religions and religious art, but is not found in Islam.
In First Temple Judaism, Sheol in the Hebrew Old Testament, or Hades in the Septuagint, is primarily a place of "silence" to which all humans go. However, during, or before, the exile in Babylon ideas of activity of the dead in Sheol began to enter Judaism.
During the Second Temple period (roughly 500 BCE–70 CE) the concept of a Bosom of Abraham first occurs in Jewish papyri that refer to the "Bosom of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob". This reflects the belief of Jewish martyrs who died expecting that: "after our death in this fashion Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will receive us and all our forefathers will praise us" (4 Maccabees 13:17). Other early Jewish works adapt the Greek mythical picture of Hades to identify the righteous dead as being separated from unrighteous in the fires by a river or chasm. In the pseudepigraphical Apocalypse of Zephaniah the river has a ferryman equivalent to Charon in Greek myth, but replaced by an angel. On the other side in the Bosom of Abraham : "You have escaped from the Abyss and Hades, now you will cross over the crossing place... to all the righteous ones, namely Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Enoch, Elijah and David." In this story Abraham was not idle in the Bosom of Abraham, he acted as intercessor for those in the fiery part of Hades.
The pseudepigraphic Book of Enoch describes travels through the cosmos and divides Sheol into four sections: for the truly righteous, the good, the wicked who are punished till they are released at the resurrection, and the wicked that are complete in their transgressions and who will not even be granted mercy at the resurrection. However, since the book is pseudepigraphic to the hand of Enoch, who predates Abraham, naturally the character of Abraham does not feature.
Later rabbinical sources preserve several traces of the Bosom of Abraham teaching. In Kiddushin 72b, Adda bar Ahavah of the third century, is said to be "sitting in the bosom of Abraham", Likewise "In the world to come Abraham sits at the gate of Gehenna, permitting none to enter who bears the seal of the covenant" according to Rabbi Levi in Genesis Rabba 67.
In the 1860s Abraham Geiger suggested that the parable of Lazarus in Luke 16 preserved a Jewish legend and that Lazarus represented Abraham's servant Eliezer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham
Further links are in the sources section of the article, for your further study (if you really care to)
THE JEWS BELIEVED ABRAHAM'S BOSOM & THE PLACE OF TORMENT ACTUALLY EXISTED. Jesus also referenced to it in his parables. Jesus uses reality of day to day events in this realm or the hereafter to pass across his messages.
JESUS DOES NOT USE FALSEHOOD AS THE BASIS OF HIS PARABLES. Let that sink in. If he speaks of Abraham's bosom and the place of torment in Sheol. These places actually do exist.
Case closed.

The word she'ol is often understood as hell, the place of the damned or the underworld. How did the Ancient Hebrews perceive she'ol? As I have said before, in order to better understand a word it is essential to look at its root and other related words.

The verbal root sha'al is used almost 200 times and is usually translated as "asked" such as in the following passage.

"and I asked her and said..." (Genesis 24:7)

Why do we ask questions? We are looking for information that is currently unknown to us. This word, "unknown," is the key to understanding the root sha'al and all the words derived from it.

The word she'eylah, a noun derived from sha'al is used in Job 6:8 where it is translated as a request. "O that I might have my request, and that God would grant my desire" (RSV). A request is to ask for something that is not possessed. As it is not possessed it is an unknown. How many times have we asked for something that we knew we needed but when we received it we found out it was not what we thought it would be. In other words, we thought we knew what we were missing but it turns out that what we were requesting was an unknown.

The word she'ol, also derived from sha'al, was understood as the place where one goes when they die. The question is, did they understand this to be simply the grave one is buried in or another place one goes after they die? This is a difficult question to answer as the Hebrew Bible never really defines she'ol. There is evidence however that they understood it to be more than just the grave. First, the word qever is the Hebrew word meaning grave and therefore it is possible that she'ol was understood as something other than the grave. Second, most scriptures using the word she'ol imply a place other than the grave. An example is Genesis 37:35 All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and said, "No, I shall go down to Sheol to my son, mourning." Thus his father wept for him (RSV). In this account Jacob believed his son Joseph had been eaten by a wild beast. As Joseph's body could not possibly be in a grave, Jacob knew that he would be with him somewhere - she'ol.

The Ancient Hebrews did not know where or even what she'ol was. To them it was an unknown place hence, the use of a word related to sha'al meaning "unknown." It should also be noted that the Ancient Hebrews never speculated on something unknown, it was simply not known and left at that. It is only the Greek mind that desires to know the unknown. It is our Greco-Roman western mindset that needs to know where and what she'ol is.

https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/definition/hell.htm

Hismasterpiece:
Angels are spirits

Okay.

Hismasterpiece:
Max max.. if indeed He resurrected as a spirit being then why did he ask her not to touch him? Can someone touch a spirit? Why did He ask Thomas to touch and feel His wounds if He resurrected as a spirit?
If he was resurrected as a spirit being then how could he eat broiled fish? Do spirits eat physical food?
The truth is that He was resurrected in a spiritual body.. It might be spiritual but it still is a body, and as such, can interact with physical things, but also interacts with spiritual things... It can disappear and appear...
Guy seriously you have to start questioning your JW doctrines... Be open to the fact that you just might be deceived...

Baba this things no hard na.

Angels are spirit beings or physical beings?

Templee333:
ok. Your request will be honoured & remember not to be the 1st to do otherwise

Actually, you can mention me when you have something tangible to say.

You don't just mention me and label me as "follow follow".

Who or what I follow is none of your business.

Templee333:
who/what made it mandatory that one must have a religion,when and why?

Bro/sis no dé mention my name for your post again.

Templee333:
now u are betraying ur comrades. I know that u are just a follower but it's better u open ur eyes b4 it's too late

Lol.
What's your religion bro/sis?

MaxInDHouse:
90% of JWs globally including myself are vaccinated!

Lol. You and seniorman ona well-done o

MaxInDHouse:
Do you have any belief at all?
Ọmọ you're an atheist Joo!

You hit am well.

The guy own na just to dé argue. I'm quite sure he doesn't believe in the Bible or Jehovah God.

Templee333:
i won't call u a liar until i give u chance to prove it. So... which verse

Sakaniel 4:19.

Jerryhare:
Jesus Christ opinion is mainly divine healing, stop visiting traditional herbalist for healing.
May you have peace!

Where did Jesus say we should go for divine healing and tag the use of herbs and medicines as sin?

MaxInDHouse:
He called the most peaceful and peaceloving group the world has ever known "Death wish cult" but what of his own religion that's bent on killing everyone to force their teachings on people?

Dem know na.

Templee333:
It's another day for MaxInDHouse and his comrades to put on their glasses & examine their deluxe/gray NWT Bible. If janosky likes to say tantrum & iberibeism let him say.Yes,cornelboy, I know you to be a "follow follow". But this is a serious issue to address: Ur JW org condemns the Catholic church for using images & icons, claiming that it's non biblical. Why are you now idolizing the images of Sophia & Caleb? A young JW lad told me the other day that they've erected the images of Sophia & caleb in their Assembly Hall. There must be something mysterious about these two figures. Maybe Mr Courz can help us out here because I'm suspecting something about this JW Society. Mr oteneaaron are u there? There's food here for u guys to feast on. Once again,pls,JW folks: who really are Sophia & Caleb? Are they in the Bible?

They are in the Bible.

Jerryhare:
Jesus Christ opinion is mainly divine healing, stop visiting traditional herbalist for healing.
May you have peace!

Where did Jesus condemn medicine/herb or say it's sin?

MaxInDHouse:
Instead of concentrating on the obsolete style of threat used by the false religions claiming Christians what we all need to focus on is the WORKS of FAITH that leads to everlasting life and know how to avoid the WORKS of flesh that leads to destruction!
Whether permanent death or torment it's evildoers that will be punished not righteous so i can't just decipher why most people push this aside only to focus on the teachings of torment after death!

They be like, if don't believe in hell fire, your a sinner and you will go to hell.

I have met some that said i must believe in the trinity before I could be saved.

Ken4Christ:
The punishment of Russell who brainwashed you will be worse than yours. Keep living in bondage of false doctrines.
You pretend not to be aware of the reference of Scripture I have quoted above the Beast and the false Prophet who are thrown into the Lake of Fire in Revelation 19:20. And after 1,000 years, he is still there. And Satan joined him - Revelation 20:10.
You are not afraid of God. You read his word and only take the part that agrees with your pre conceived opinions.
I give up on you.

Don't worry. Go and literally cut some parts of your body that make you sin so that you can enter life maimed while you leave me enter everlasting fire with my body intact.

Cripples, the blinds, lames, dumbs, eunuchs go full your own version of heaven o. Cos everybody would have cut their organs off in order to gain eternal life.

Lukuluku69:
You are studying with a Death Wish Cult? Go ahead o.
I can see that they are already doing a number on you already.
When you see one of their learned elders, please ask what is Jehovah doing with the Virgins Moses alloted him from the spoil of war Moses and his other children too while on warring mission as commanded by Jehovah

Lol. Being a JW is far more better than being a Muslim.

MaxInDHouse:
Most of them never did any PERSONAL research it's only what their religious leaders say that matters to them!

During my personal research, I found a site, ancienthebrew.org. The author did a great job and he really helped me understand some Biblical concept.

https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/definition/soul.htm
This one talks about the meaning of soul in Hebrew perspective.

https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/definition/hell.htm
This one is about hell.

Pls check them.

MaxInDHouse:
The English don't have any word for Gehenna so instead of separating the two they used the same word "Hell" for both Sheoul and Gehenna.
While"Sheoul" simply means "Grave" Gehenna means death without any hope of resurrection!

I understand. I followed the way most Bible translations put it.

Ken4Christ:
Tenth Witness
Matthew 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into EVERLASTING FIRE.
Jehovah Witness are stucked here. They can't confuse their gullible souls with the word hades and Gehenna here because Everlasting fire was not translated from any of them.
MaxInDHouse, Kobojunkie, cornelboy

If you don't know the meaning of a verse. Just beg us to explain it to you.

Nothing in that verse should be taken literally. Jesus never meant that we should really cut any part of our body for us to enter life.
The everlasting fire symbolises eternal destruction.

Ken4Christ:
The time will come when both the body and soul will be cast into fire for destruction. It will start with the Beast and false Prophet;
Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were CAST ALIVE into a LAKE OF FIRE burning with brimstone.
Lake of Fire is like a bigger hell. It is far worse than hell.
After the final judgment, those whose name are not found in the book of life will be cast into the Lake of Fire with both body and soul.

Lol. I like your stories. They are deadass funny.
Jesus wasn't referring to any bigger hell/ lake of fire but to hell.
He said both the soul and the body would be destroyed in hell (Gehenna).

And Gehenna is another term different from hell (grave).

MaxInDHouse:
When they see many of their fellow Churchgoers turn to atheists they don't know that it's due to the fact that such once have made a thorough research and discovered that there is no place called Hell that's why they're no longer scared of the useless threats.
This one is just a thief who wants to make money from gullible people he already knew what hell really means but how will he threaten the fools around him to come and pay him tithe if he should declare the truth?

He's deadass hilarious.

Ken4Christ:
Even if Jesus comes down from heaven and tell you of the reality of hell, you will still not believe.
I am amazed at the risk you are taking. Once you are in there, there is no way out.

I'm amazed how you're too slow to grasp my point.

Jesus said God can destroy both the soul and the body in hell.

But you say it's only the soul that get destroyed in hell.

Who should I believe, Jesus or you?

Ken4Christ:
The soul of a man never gets burnt up. Only the body. This is why Jesus said they will weep and gnash their teeth day and night.
In another place, it says that they will be tormented day and night forever.
Haven't you read about the beast and the false Prophet that will be thrown into the Lake of Fire in Revelation 19:20.
After 1,000 years of Jesus reign, the scripture says that they are still there. Satan was also thrown in there - Revelation 20:10.
They were not burnt up because it's their soul. That part of man is immortal.

Jesus said God can destroy both soul and body in hell?
How does the body get to hell?

Aren't dead bodies buried in literal graves and they decay there?

There's no doubt, grave is same as hell and the soul is the same as the person that died.

[quote author=Ken4Christ post=117186077][/quote]

I have told you before that the word soul is used in different context in the Bible. In one context, it refers to the totality of man. In another, it refers to that part of man which is immortal.

Ezekiel 18:4
[4]Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

According to this aforementioned verse, does the "soul" mentioned there mean "the totality of man" or "the immortal part"?

You should bring one verse that says there's any part of us that is immortal.

Destruction of soul in hell refers to the eternal punishment and torment it will suffer.

What about the destruction of the body in hell according to Jesus at Mathew 10:28? Will the body also be destroyed eternally in hell?

Is the destruction in hell eternal? Didn't you say people in hell will be transferred to lake of fire?

Well, check my new post on the woman Jesus took to hell for 40 days. Read it with an open mind.

I don't believe no woman. I trust what the Bible says.

Do a research and find out if the origin of the word soul is the same in all context. You will find out that it is not the same.

I did the research already. I was actually once like you. I was deluded.