₦airaland Forum

debosky:
That was an early season anomaly and nothing more. Our home form has clearly improved from those blips.

it hasn't. wait until the big boys arrive at the emirates again. thank feck you are facing andy caroll again at the emirates. koscielny must be very worried.

proudly9ja:
Like debo said, hindsight is always 20-20

debo is a serial drunk. what does he know?

Also u cannot compare Caroll coming through Newcastle ranks with anything Arsene has done at Arsenal. Newcastle can afford to bring in any trainee. They don't play champs league or challenge for the EPL title season in season out. Compare us with ManU, Chelsea, Liverpool. How many English players have these teams brought through the ranks in recent years?

danny welbeck is better than vela. scholes/giggs came through the ranks. ryan shawcross came through united academy. phil bardsley, wes brown, tom cleverley, etc. you cannot say there are no good english lads in this country.

In spite of our yearly push for top spot in competitions, we can still boast of blooding untested English players in our team. Would Chelsea/ManU/Liverpool have stuck with a misfiring Theo Walcott? or risked playing a 17 year old Jack Wilshere and Kierran Gibbs?

man utd have played more untested english players in their team than any club in europe. will darron gibson play for arsenal? welbeck(2 seasons ago), fraizer campbell? danny simpson? only united kids that are english leave united and still do well with bottom teams. when arsenal kids leave arsenal, we don't hear nowt about them.

debosky:
What a nonsensical comment - two seasons ago, Liverpool was top of the table in December, did they win the title?

The fact remains that, as things currently stand, Arsenal is the closest opposition to Utd for the title, especially when you consider we have played all the 'major' opposition away (except Tottenham).

and there lies your delusion. arsenal's achilles heel is at the emirates, not away from home. 2 newly-promoted teams have washed the floor with arsenal by playing your boys off the park.

ritchboy:
No one ever "compared" Zidane to Diaby or Vela to Messi. . . Is it not saddening that grown azz men have to tell petty lies to massage their poor self-esteem?

lol

debosky:
Hindsight is always 20-20

blindness is then what? 50-50?

proudly9ja:
So u understand now why Arsene would rather go to France and bring in a player?

i don't understand. for every foreign legionnaire wenger has brought to this league, i will name 3 english players wenger coulda gotten in the last 14 yrs better than the frenchie.

proudly9ja:
Good thing is if he flops and we sell him, we still make a profit
I can almost bet that Liverpool cannot sell Caroll for more than the 35mill they bought him.

But that's not the point. The point is English players are usually overhyped and overpriced.

caroll emerged from newcastle academy - they got nothing for caroll and was sold for 35 milla. it was newcastle caroll scored those league goals for not liverpool who bought him for 35 milla. in a nutshell, caroll and chamakh were acquired for free - and caroll has scored more league goals. what does that say about wenger?

dayokanu:
Barca won the La Liga last year with 99 points 5th placed Mallorca 62 points 37 points difference.

Chelsea won the EPL in 2005 by 95 points. 5th placed Liverpool 57 points 38 points difference

that's not the point, mr dayokanu. kindly check the difference in points between barca/madrid and the others. the difference is massive.

proudly9ja:
Andy Caroll for 35 million when we can get Chamakh for free!

i think a quick look at the premier league's scorer's chart will tell you who's bought a dud player and who bought an ace player. . . . . .considering both players are new in the premier league and discounting chamakh plays for a team that is technically better.

debosky:
See this madman. . . .Wenger's team would've won Bundesliga three times in a row since 07/08.

The league is clearly substandard.

i doubt it. arsene wenger will not win any league with fabianski/almunia in goal. try and be honest for once.

debosky:
Allardyce was given money at Newcastle and got fired.

which money? did he buy david silva, carlos tevez, dzeko, adebayor, de jong and kompany at newcastle?

Coaches don't get it right every time and have their individual preferences regarding players.

you have made ma point. wenger's individual preference is to sign as many french players as possible.

How much would Jag have cost last summer compared to Squillaci? Answers on a post card.

why stop at last summer. stop at when you pinched agent silvestre from man utd.

Agbonlahor is too expensive to be 4th choice striker - price inflation rules him out. And as for Shawcross, he's a leg breaking type of player that isn't Wenger's type.

and yet you had vieira - the most indisciplined player in the history of the premiership. wilshere is trying hard to attain paddy v's height. not to talk of psychos like crazy jen and martin keown the cannibal.

Squillaci cost £3m, Jag would've over £13m if we wanted him last summer. Do the math.

debosky, jag didn't just emerge from the quicksand last summer. he has been putting decent shifts for the last 4 seasons. why didn't wenger identify him then and pay the same 4 milla everton paid for him knowing they would get at least 5 years of dedicated service from him?

But they are likely cheaper than equivalent talents in England. When you factor in that coaches don't always get it right, my three points cover majority of the cases.

they might be cheaper but they are not better. there's no way clichy is better than leighton baines and vela is not better than lennon.

Gallas of 2007 is still better than Jagielka of today - FACT.

if gallas was so cream, why did you let his contract wither off?

Besides, Arsenal had other players in tow then - JD and Senderos were at the club and so you can't always add players ad infinitum.

arsenal had players in tow but it didn't deter wenger from signing french legionnaires - when it comes to english players, wenger rolls out the excuse that they are not good enough and the french mercenaries are better.

debosky:
£40m indeed - I wager right now that nobody on planet earth will offer that for RVP. It is highly unreasonable to use the exceptional circumstances of Carroll's purchase to benchmark player values.

city paid 25 milla for adebayor. van persie will command 35+ milla if you display him in the market. trust me!

Didn't I say may? Or are you dyslexic? 
Secondly, inflationary pressure I mentioned was with regards to player transfer values and not simply the CPI or RPI impact.

fact is van persie has improved as a striker. the van persie of 2005 is way inferior to the van persie of 2011. he has been serviced weekly too with a 5-figure salary. . . .of course, his value has appreciated astronomically without counting his number of appearances in the premier league, champions league experience and starring for holland(a top five nation in the fifa world rankings).

The truth is, the wages can be subtracted from the argument because that financial outlay would've been expended by the club with or without RVP's purchase on another striker.

but the wages were spent on van persie. his medical bills have been picked by arsenal. even when he was accused of molesting a nigerian model in amsterdam, wenger was the solicitior that ensured van persie's release and you want us to subtract his wages from his value? debosky, if you practise as an accountant, you will go to gaol.

dayokanu:
How can you remove players wages from it when a player can move for free and still claim 200,000 per week

Ballack on a free with 130,000 per week or Nasri that came for 10m but on 50k per week.

Which one cost the club more on a 4yr contract?

don't mind debosky. as if the wages weren't paid by arsenal fc and it was dangote that kept paying van persie's wages. only arsenal fans would compare the 2.75m spent in 2005 and compare it to torres in 2011. van persie was a bench warmer in 2005. . . . . .torres will walk into chelsea's starting xi in 2011. the comparison is laughable. if arsenal were to buy van persie today in the market, how much would wenger paid for him? knowing he paid 16 milla for an eduardo who hails from an obscure league in croatia in 2007. . . .wenger will pay 40 mllla for van persie today.

debosky:
Hello? Harry Redknapp has won the FA cup, has been coaching for donkey years before he got to where he is. Is he Pardew or Fat Sam? No - they are the middle class of English managers.

give big sam and pardew the opportunity to trade with megamillions and they will shock you. as we have seen, mancini has not done better than mark hughes after spending megamillions on man city.

When Lennon was bought in 2005, Arsenal had sufficient wingers on its books, so there is no point to be made there.

and yet wenger paid an initial 5 milla for a 16 yr old theo walcott six months later. what is walcott? a goalkeeper?

With due respect, Bale aside, none of those players is featuring for a top 4 club - that implies they are either not good enough or are unduly overpriced or not needed at the top 4 level.

lord of mercy. my intuition tells me jaglieka is better than squillaci/djourou. agbonlahor is better than vela/eduardo and ryan shawcross will walk into the arsenal starting xi.

This takes me back to my prior points of:

1. Not needing the type of English player available
2. The massive overpricing of the available ones
3. Thw quality of available talent

the idea is to catch them young just like wenger catches the foreign legionnaires young. lennon was 1 milla in july 2005, walcott was 12 milla in  january 2006. tell me, which one makes more economic sense?

Dunne is in his thirties, Vermaelen in in his mid twenties - it's not rocket science to figure out. One is a Belgian regular and played at the top club in his division, the other was unceremoniously booted out of a club with to 4 ambitions.

how old were silvestre and now squillaci? early teens? you have wasted how much now on two quacks?

Refer to points above - no coach can claim to have known about ALL players or taken gambles on ALL players, and not all players would be willing to sign for Arsenal.

you miss the point completely. to say arsene wenger doesn't buy english players cos they are not good enough is a poor excuse. the eboues, squillacis, velas, diabys, denilsons are not better than some of the english talents in this country. if wenger really wanted english talents, they are in abundance.

PS - how much did Jagielka cost last year when we needed a CB?

jaglieka was 4 milla in 2007. that was the same season you pawned a world-class ashley cole for a geriatric william gallas that collapsed your season with a moment of madness at st. andrews!  jaglieka was just 25 then. he could have been a reasonable back up defender that season after kolo toure was zakilized in nations cup early 2008.

The three reasons above suffice for the majority of cases - some individuals like Bale decided to go elsewhere

oh pls! wenger has pulled wool over your eyes.

duduspace:
I see yur point, but yu've still got to give credit to the policy and how much its saved the club. The current true value of the squad is definitely much more than the cost but its still credit to the manager to have built up such a squad with relatively minimal outlay without sacrificing the footballing principles and maintaining a top 4 position at all times.

but what titles did arsene win while building this squad?

debosky:
I agree - but that is the type of shallow thinking promoted by sky and the tabloids' hype over transfer fees.

However, since you don't have subsisting offers for RVP at the moment, it is nearly impossible to properly quantify his 'present day' worth.

it's not impossible. i don't need to be a rocket scientist to know van persie is better than andy caroll. if caroll can go for 35 milla, then my sixth sense tells me van persie will be around 40 milla(glass body or no glass body).

Nevertheless, the value he was bought for remains a pertinent measure - the only other quantifiable way to do it would be to include wages paid say over the 6 years for RVP. The inherent flaw in the latter approach is that we can confidently presume that the wages would've been spent regardless, either on RVP or on another striker in his place. Therefore, the only externally comparable measure remains the transfer fee incurred.

At best, the inflationary increases could be factored in - £2.75m in 2004 might be worth say £8m today - that will be a reasonable comparator.

you are chatting bollocks if you think £2.75m in 2004 is £8m today. what do you think this is? investment banking or fixed deposit? i buy a building for 2.75 milla in 2005 and i spend about 80k a week for six years to Behind this property - making sure a group of elite individuals wine n dine in this property throughout that period and you think if i revalue the property, the value would be 8 milla? does it occur to you van persie has picked an average of 6 milla per annum? 6m  X 6 yrs is what?

debosky:
Because they aren't good enough, and that has absolutely nothing to do with Arsene. . . .never in a million years will those two ever be given a shot at a top 4 club, unless a hurricane destroys UEFA HQ during the CL draw, and even then no one would actually employ them for those jobs.

harry redknapp is doing well for tottenham(a champions league club) at the moment and he topped his group. never say never.

It's not as if there were affordable English players available that AW could have gotten were there? The best players - the Rooneys, Rios, Lampards and so on are already earning big money and have no reason to want to come to Arsenal. The issue of not representing the English team is a non-starter - that isn't Arsenal's mandate.

yes, there were unless you are a rose-tinted goggle-wearing gaynner. in the same period we are expected to believe english players aren't good enough to play for arsenal - caroll, ashley young, aaron lennon, gareth bale, ryan shawcross, gabriel agbolanhor, charlie adam, etc were unearthed. are you telling me wenger was that blind not to have noticed ashley young in 06/07? aaron lennon when he was bought for 1m by tottenham in 2005, etc?

This is purely due to the poor quality of English players coupled with the unreasonably inflated prices of the few good ones available. Why should Wenger pay £18m for Glen Johnson when he can get Sagna for £7m and Sagna is a higher quality player?

but there was richard dunne for 5milla when he spent 10 milla on vermaelen. phil jaglieka, leighton baines, etc. how much were they? wenger has no excuse. he has turned arsenal into a breeding ground for french players. if you are a dad to a 17 yr-old arsenal player in the academy - you would worry about when your son will ever make it to the first team with the army of french legionnaires in the arsenal ranks.

This is pure economics and the dynamic of the EU at play.

You can't 'represent' England by force - if Arsenal cannot afford the inflated prices for English players it should now go bankrupt or start buying mediocre players just to claim English?

unless you want to claim clichy is better than baines, squillaci is better than jaglieka and eboue is better than lennon/bale then this statement should shame you.

Again, the Rooneys, Rios, Terrys and Lamps are all at their big clubs and will have no reason to sell them to Arsenal. The issues are primarily financial and quality related.  . . . .if you can't shop in the inflated English market, you go elsewhere to get quality players, while developing English youth, of which Wilshere is an emerging example of what the club can produce.

one name in 14 yrs of arsene wenger's management. this is hilarious.

duduspace:
So only Arsenal player values are appreciating, are other club's player's values depreciating?   

that's not the point. all i am saying is y'all should compare like for like. don't compare a striker wenger bought in 2005 at 2.75 milla to torres that chelsea bought in 2011 for 50 million. it is moronic to compare 2.75 milla striker of 2005 who has benefited from 6 yrs state of the art facility and still value him at 2.75 milla.

debosky:
Since Walcott displaced him against Chelski.

in other words, wenger is a magician by parading cheap players in the league, isn't it? the op still wants us to believe robin van persie bought for 2.75 milla almost six years ago hasn't appreciated in value and walcott bought for 9.1m hasnt appreciated for 5 yrs. it makes no sense at all calculating the value of the first team based on what these duds cost when they were bought. does van persie still play as a 2m player after six years of intensive training including his continuous usage of the state of the art facility @ the emirates and his five-figure wages? with andy caroll valued at 35 milla, van persie cannot be less than 40 milla which renders the op's concept worthless.

dayokanu:
Anytime any of the EPL fans try to call La Liga a two team league just let me know.

You know most of them are ignorant and genetically dumb

but la liga is a 2-team league. it's not really about which club won what but the margin by which barcelona/madrid have been winning. look at the total points of barcelona and real madrid last season for instance. . . . .barca finished with 99 points last season while a third placed valencia finished with 71 points(28 points difference). isn't that unheard of? 99 points in a possible 114 points is just ridiculous.

debosky:
^^ Are you dyslexic or something?

arshavin is no longer a first teamer? since when?

chic2pimp:
@Poster

Whilst I've got to admit that you do have a point(nigeria and their propensity to abuse any slight priviledge given to them), this is definitely the wrong thread to air your disgust and frustration on that subject.

bella's husband is an american citizen. even if the kid is delivered in osogbo - the baby will be an automatic american citizen(which rules out the opinion that they fled nigeria to acquire a special status for their child).

dayokanu:
See pictures below for details. Note dudubrain in green eagles jersey

https://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs967.snc4/76031_1730897551215_1201786708_2028153_4085831_n.jpg

duduface representing the gaynners and doing what he knows how to do best - offering his arse.

dayokanu:
AM surprised you guys expect any bit of common sense from GAYYners. 2-3 months ago one of them compared Carlos Vela to Messi now can someone tell me where Messi plays and which club Vela plays for at the moment.

I am still sure you remember that Diaby dribbles like Zidane

truth be told. few of them are objective but the majority are nothing to write home about. take mumuface for instance, he told us roman's spending days are over because the man has given up on project chelsea - just last week, roman spent 75 milla and promised to spend more in the summer. mumuface also told us arsenal have the best kids in the land - few weeks ago, his bestest young guns lost 10-1 in a reserves game. the same mumuface also believes vela/diabi are messi/zidane respectively and he was sure as stone that man utd's days in the sun are over because ferguson hasn't signed a marquee player in two transfer windows(the same united are 5 points clear on the league table). some gaynners do have them.

debosky:
So you lied when you said this:

Why should I believe anything you say? 

that was the worth of the transfer as at jan 2006 - when walcott penned the dotted lines. eventually, southampton settled for 9.1 milla few years later. whichever way you wanna look at it. the 12 milla story and the 9.1 milla story are all correct. wenger should have paid 12 milla but he paid 9.1 mil. at least, i know my facts whereas debosky is completely ignorant.

debosky:
Who is debating TW14's price? All I've shown is that your website is a dubious source - no fee of £9.1 was paid for Theo at any point in time.

Besides, you can't accept BBC's account on Theo and reject the one for Nasri - you gotta be consistent.

Secondly, if you can find a Marseille report claiming £15.8m then I'll accept your evidence.

theo's deal was supposed to be 12 million but wenger eventually paid 9.1million. it saddens me i know much more about the club you have been supporting since 19XX. shame on you - now take these lectures and digest it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2296011/Southampton-lose-2.9m-over-Theo-Walcott.html

there you have it, my link is as genuine as they come. wenger stingily stitched southampton for 2.9 million.

debosky:
No fees are ever announced for Arsenal transfers, so why should I accept your own fee as authentic when my reliable sources inform me it was 11.8 rounded up to £12m?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/4614538.stm

i thought arsenal never announce their transfers. surely, if the buying club don't say it, the selling club would.

dayokanu:
So you sef see am. ;d

i argued it in a pub the other day and arsenal fans wanted my throat. they kept giving excuses about his player grooming, keeping arsenal in the top four for 14 seasons and baaaaaah. alex ferguson has not finished lower than third since the inception of the premiership, ferguson won 6 league titles last decade, 2 european cups, etc. don't lets even mention mourinho and other european managers.

debosky:
Nasri's fee was £12m.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/7462281.stm

Besides, your dubious website claims Walcott was bought for £9.1m. . . .are you picking and choosing which accounts you believe from them?  

conveniently omitting this. . . .Although no details of the fee were announced by the Gunners, Nasri is reported to have cost £12m. theo walcott's deal plus add-ons was 12 million which arsenal must have paid the same season sven took walcott to the world cup.

debosky:
Nasri cost less than £12m, that was just the rounding up effect. Now stop propagating fallacies before you are stricken with leprosy.

nasri's transfer deal was £15.8m

look out for nasri here: http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/arsenal-transfers.html

debosky:
Did I mention Walcott? I said Nasri was £12m and that is a fact.

Arsenal is spending within its means and there is no shame in that.

nasri is more than 12 million. stop lying before thunder strikes your sinews.

debosky:
Yeah. . . .Lee Mason was 'pitying' Arsenal by giving the worst offside goal you'll see all season (only slightly worse than the Farce awarded to Bayern in the CL earlier in the season) and failing to see Fellaini foul Arsenal players off the ball repeatedly.

the ball came off koscielny. . . . .it was a perfect goal. the grey area is whether saha gained an advantage in an offside position slash saha interfering with play when the initial pass was made. it's a 50-50 decision. i can understand why lee mason gave the goal.

The same referees 'pitying' Arsenal by sending off Koscielny for a 'tackle' 40 yards from goal, sending off Squillaci for a 'block' 25 yards from goal but not sending off a defender who fouled Bendtner for a penalty 5 yards from goal.

koscielny was the last man when he made that tackle and the player he fouled was goal-bound.

The same officials who gave a handball against Arsenal for a penalty against Spurs but refused to do the same thing when an even more blatant handball occurred for Arsenal.

These are clearly signs of 'pitying' Arsenal.

let's all pretend arsenal have never benefited from a dubious decision since their existence.

debosky:
Stop spreading falsehood Sharon - Koscielny cost £8.5m and Nasri cost £12m. . . .again I don't know what this obsession with inflating Arsenal transfer fees is all about.

I don't know which gutter you pulled your information from either.

nasri is 12 million again and walcott is also free? keep piling your duds while united win the big ones. never mind, arsene will get the award for the stingiest manager in the world.

HNIC:
Please name the dodgy penalty decisions.
Compare and contrast with the award of a penalty to Bebatov against L'pool with seconds on the clock(WTF).
and some peeps here talk of soft penalties

that was a penalty. agger impeded berbatov(no matter how little the impact was). however, arsenal have won a larger chunk of penalties this season and they have played against 10 men in a match more than any team in europe this season.

ritchboy:
Ok, i was wrong to say Bale has 3 league assists. . . you were wrong to say Nani has double the assists of Bale, Nasri and Malouda this season.

Let's call it a tie!

i like your spirit.