₦airaland Forum

The NAF On Deployment

NAF Special Forces Regiment Deploying

Cont'd: NAF Assets & Special Forces Deploying

NAF

Patchesagain:
Lol, you sound angry. Calm down.

Poised.

Patchesagain:
Source?

?

I'd have obliged you but it's all over the internet. I'll suggest Reuters and RFI but won't go further in honor of the SA 'Paras' KIA.

jln115:
"SA soldiers carved us up, say rebels"

Actually only the Southies tell us that.

The rebels were seen flaunting captured SA equipment and even had PhotoOps with Journalists in Bangui. It's all over the news.

Patchesagain:
The people of Bangui built a statue to our men and begged for our return. This is also a historical fact.

Talking of captured equipment... shall we discuss Vickers tanks, T-55's, MT-LB's, Streit MRAP's, D-30 howitzers and Mowag Prianahs?

According to the French commander at Bangui Airport "the South Africans said they have had enough and don't want anything more to do with it and just want to get out and quickly".

— so much for wanting your return and statues in a place where a rag-tag militia gave SA 'Paras' a beating of their life.

Speaking of captured equipment, everything BHT got in the fog of war was either destroyed or recaptured. Everyone knows it.

jln115:
I just cited reputable news outlets that say you did, go argue with them not me

Fake News.

Patchesagain:
No, it wouldent.

The French stayed in their airport through-out the battle. the rebels themselves offered a cease-fire.

The rebels actually paraded captured SA spoils of war after SA 'Paras' fled to Bangui Airport for French protection. That's the historical fact.

jln115:
Nigeria used South African mercenaries that's a fact mate!!

Obviously we never sent our SF to fight BH hence I used the word "wanted to"

For technical application of it's equipment bought and no SA forces had no capacity for the nature of fighting in the north-east.

jln115:
Its irrelevant if he believed he could have won or not the point is if he didn't invade Russia he would of won.

Also at the start of operation barbarossa, Germany had nothing to match the t34 that is a fact

It's relevant as he wouldn't have invaded Russia which was his main goal if he didn't think he would win.

The Germans quickly came up with an answer for the T-34 and by the end of 1941 the Russians had lost over 2000+ T-34 Tanks.

Patchesagain:
I am more than happy to educate you in the correct thread. Interestingly, you avoid me there.

Post in the appropriate forum, or you will catch a ban (again)

Condescending coward.

Meanwhile you are being slaughtered on the other thread with historical facts not the lies and fake story you peddle that makes even your own country men ashamed to call you one of their own.

Only a coward capitulates for a ban.

Patchesagain:
Really? They had tanks, artillery and AA guns?

Dude. Come on. They were nothing more than roving gangs of bandits.

And you didnt even defeat them - you paid them to stop.

Come now. Self-criticism and self-reflection are the only way one acheives self-improvement!

Again self delusion.

Go and read about Tompolo and Camp 5.

These are guys that were already invading nations and blackmailing presidents.

It took a successful military invasion and capture of Camp 5 by Air, Land & Sea to bring them to the table for a wider peace under a federal government plan not the military.

jln115:
Barlow was not involved in any sale of vehicles o Nigeria he was there to train your soldiers as confirmed by your own military!

Dude be specific in your language. Don't couch it and try to make it what it's not. Training is a general word. Training could be for making SA pap or whatnot but in this case it was for technical use and application of SA made equipment. That's a verified fact.

Patchesagain:
Since we are talking military history lets talk about Nigeria's glorious history:

Sierra Leone/Liberia:
- completely unable to defeat rag tag militia armed with light weapons
- got pushed back on multiple occasions
- had to rely on local militia to do their fighting for them
- spent more time looting and pillaging than actually acomplishing anything.

After 10 years of Nigerian involvement, the USMC had to come in and stabilized the country in 3 months.

Boko Haram:
- unable to defeat rag tag militia armed with light weapons
- run away so frequently and so constantly that you lose all your weapons to Boko Haram
- boko haram is now a rat tag militia armed with heavy weapons, including Vickers MBT, T55 MBT, MT-LB's, Spartan MRAP's, D-30 feild guns, Shilka's and the like

After 4 years of Nigerian involvement in the N.E, Chad had to come in and stabilize the region in 3 weeks.

Wow - I see a trend!

How come Chad stabilized the region yet ended up under the command HQ in the heart of their own capital N'djamena of a Nigerian Combat General Leo Irabor in the MNJTF stabilizing the same region. An irony thanks to the fantasy of a kid called Patch on Nairaland.

The history of all the junk you put up there are well chronicled and a million spins will change it.

The Nigerian Military and it's ECOWAS partners through direct military interventions and military diplomacy brought peace and democracy to Liberia, Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, Guinea Bissau, The Gambia, São Tomé and Principe, Burkina Faso, Guinea, Mali. And where would I stop is it The Congo, Biafra, Somalia, Chad, Togo, The Bakassi Peninsula, The Niger-delta, North-East Nigeria & The Lake Chad Islands and the list goes on and on and in all we have never lost a war or diplomatic initiative. Never! It goes our way. Always!

Meanwhile the South African military while making noise at home has fled a war in the Central African Republic, abandoned a peacekeeping mission in the Sudan because it's soldiers were awed and shocked at the prospect of combat with terrorist militias, it's under UN protection in the DRC under the guise of peacekeeping (still not out of that one cos the killings goes on unabated), managed to import the Chinese Communist model of power transfer in Zimbabwe in a brazen day light coup because it lacked the military capability and wherewithal to install democracy next door, has left all SADC countries drifting with different forms of totalitarianism and the list goes on.

Just shut your trap Patch elders are talking.

jln115:
Why the fvck are we still arguing about Russia? My point still stands If Germany didn't invade Russia they would've conquered Europe!

Anyway at the start of Operation Barbarossa Germany in fact had no Tanks that could even rival the T34....and you want to tell me they didn't have an adequate defense industry?

Well Germany did conquer Europe and did invade Russia in a war Hitler (must be specific hitler) believed he'd win due to his Wonder Weapons and blitzkrieg doctrine of war.

Well he didn't cos of the reasons I've adduced.

You must have read the wrong history book.

Go and read again and you need time to understand it before you come back to me.

jln115:
These photos also fake?

Yes.

Training a unit to familiarize with an equipment you sold to them to be used in the north-east is not same thing as doing the fighting a credit which your own Barlow gave to the brave and gallant Nigerian unit who did the fighting.

Patchesagain:
Moderators will be informed if you keep this up.

Nonsense! Obviously because you can't live down the truth. What an act of cowardice.

Coward you are welcome.

jln115:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/14/south-africas-ageing-white-mercenaries-who-helped-turn-tide-on-boko-haram

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/nigeria/11596210/South-African-mercenaries-secret-war-on-Boko-Haram.html

Nigeria even wanted our SFs to fight Boko Harm:

https://www.nation.co.ke/news/africa/Nigeria-to-deploy-SA-special-forces-to-fight-Boko-Haram/1066-3108080-13uukfaz/index.html

https://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/sa-to-join-fight-against-boko-haram-1995592

Fake News.

jln115:
Such a long post just to agree that Germany would've won if they had not invaded the soviet Union.

Also the soviet Union had a huge defence industry... Might not have been as advanced as Germany defence industry but it was certainly adequate.

You see why I don't come here cos instead of informed debate we have soundbites running amok. Certainly you didn't understand.

The point is the Fuehrer Adolf Hitler had original designs on Russia not the West. He responded to the West because they stood against his expansionist ambition in Europe.

And no Russia had no adequate defense industry at the start of Operation Barbarossa. In fact it was the allies that were supplying Russia weapons and equipment though little because of the logistics involved for delivery to hold the defensive lines in Moscow. Besides Stalin is on record at the time to have believed all the assurances of Hitler that he won't attack Russia hence was surprised at the scale of the invasion and was ill prepared. That's the history. Go and read so I don't waste valuable time.

Russia won the war majorly because of the factors I've given. Military historians concur.

jln115:
You seem to forget that SA basically wrote the book on modern day counter terrorism doctrine .... We are literally world leaders in the field.

Hence Nigeria(and countries around the world) come to South Africa for ct/coin training and mercenaries

In your dreams. I know in your dreams.

Patchesagain:
1. It has been put to the test - Angola. Men who fought in that war are still serving in the SANDF. The conflict in Angola remains Africas biggest and most advanced ever fought in Africa - one of the few with regular combined arms operations, the employment of advanced air-defense networks, multi-squadron air-raids, air-to-air combat, SF deployments via submarine and brigade sized combat etc etc etc
2. The deployment in DRC congo has seen the extensive combat, with excellent results: M23 was comprehensively defeated. M23 was better equipped and led than Boko and yet, they are gone and boko is not.
3. Combat in Bangui was a tactical success with the mission meeting its objectives - and a victory on the battlefield. A testament to how good the SANDF is. Can you show me an instance of 200 of your men holding off 4000 enemy for 30+ hours, inflicting heavy casualties and still meeting mission objectives? Nope.

The simple fact of the matter is that the SANDF is better equipped, better trained and has a cohesive and effective military doctrine. The same things cannot be said about your home nation - for goodness sakes, your men in the N.E are moved around the battlefield in dump-trucks!

"b..but muh combat experience"
Saddams military had extensive combat experience, and got wiped by the comparatively "green" NATO alliance. Why? NATO was better equipped and trained and had the superior doctrine.

The fact that you even care about this topic says all that needs to be said.

Like I said you like to dream. Nothing stops you from deluding yourself on the pages of nairaland with hyperbolic concoctions.

You can't re-write history. Here is what happened: South Africa was defeated in Angola, got beaten blue-black in Bangui and fled to the airport under French protection and whilst their were some units operating with UN forces in offensive operations in the DRC the South African peacekeepers were generally under the protection of a Tanzanian force.

Comparing Saddam's Iraqi Army to NATO is insanity in broad day light. Check yourself pls.

About M23 and boko haram, it is laughable but insulting your characterization. The MEND the Nigerian Army dealt with in the Niger-Delta was even more deadly than M23. MEND and M23 combined comes nothing close to boko haram that operates based on an ideology to die for God. When rebels in the DRC start strapping 6 year old girls with bombs and attacking UN positions on a suicidal mission something non-existent in your DRC peacekeeping mission then you can come and talk to me.

The SANDF today has nothing on the present capacity and capabilities of Nigeria's Armed Forces. As we speak we have all of your territory covered and already know the windows of every one of your leadership and strategic assets to hit with precision strikes if the need arises to deploy.

But I must add I have no appetite for kid talk.

Krak:
You dont need this.

No wahala! Just stating the facts. It may be hard to swallow but is the fact nevertheless.

I can predict if Wahhabist Jihadists the size and scale seen in BHT happens in SA they would quickly overrun the place before help comes. We don't want that and it's unlikely because they don't have that strain of Islam and the Islamic population is too insignificant.

Patchesagain:
1. The SANDF, its equipment, training SA military doctrine is entirely tailord to deal with COIN threats. This was built over 40 years of continuous combat experience and amounts to vast institutional knowledge - esp since senior leadership of all security services is composed of men who either once hunted insurgents or were insurgents themselves. We have hundreds of Eben Barlows in uniforms and suits.
2. South Africa inherited one of the most sophisticated intelligence structures in the continent from the Apartheid regime.

We had issues with islamic terrorism in the late 90's and early 2000's - we wrecked them then, we will do it again.

Quite an exaggeration. You haven't yet seen terrorism. When you see one you don't boast about it. What you had were pretenders.

I've repeatedly told you the SADF is not the SANDF. What obtains today in SA is on paper.

There is COIN and there is CT/COIN. You have nothing capable of dealing with terrorists who come to die.

jln115:
Germany fought the entire world not just one country and if they didn't invade the Soviet Union they would most likely have conquered Europe.....They literally took on the entire world and almost won thanks to thier superior Defence industry and their much more advanced weapons.

That Germany fought same time on the Western and Eastern fronts was Hitlers strategic error and moreso because of his over-confidence in Germany's industrial revolution under Nazi rule. A misguided confidence that would come back to haunt him. A good thing.

Nazi Germany had the blitzkrieg doctrine in WW11 for which they had been quietly arming as Adolf Hitler had an axe to grind for the loss of WW1. In fact the Luftwaffe was so prepared in aircraft numbers and quality that they pulverized England in the early stages of the war.

That speed and take no prisoner approach in the early days of the war for which no one except Germany was adequately prepared led to the quick conquer and occupation of large states like Poland in the east and France to the west and indeed much of Europe except the island country Britain cut off from the continent by sea. In essence the Nazis and Fascist Italy did conquer and occupy Europe though with underground resistance from armed opposition local groups or clandestine forces smuggled in by allied intelligence to operate behind enemy lines.

Hitler had an obsession to conquer and capture Russia for not just it's natural resources which was one major goal but also distrust of what Stalin was up to and the morbid fear that Russia was just too large and endowed to ignore which could one day overrun Berlin and enslave it's people, a fear that persists till date under a different guise among major powers and which preceded the Nazis. Napoleons invasion of Russia is just one example among many. Yet above all else, the harsh winter conditions of Russia and the dexterity of it's people to fight against all odds always proved an asset against invading forces.

So while a lot of the disaster and failure that characterized the siege of Leningrad and eventual withdrawal of the Deutsche Wehrmacht from the doors of Moscow culminating ultimately in the defeat of Nazi Germany in Berlin rests with Hitler mostly because he wouldn't listen to the strategic and tactical withdrawal or offensive plans of his proven Generals but insist on the fight and die order in hopeless situations by German troops reason because of his implicit faith in the wonder weapons either delivered or soon to be delivered from Germany's industrial heartland to change the tide of the war all of which though had a huge impact in dragging out the war for so long did not change the over-all dynamic of the war which was victory for the allies in the west and victory for the Russians on the eastern front thanks more to the climate and topography of the region as well as the depth and human-resource size of the defending forces. Remember these countries were on the back foot at the beginning of the war but won at the end.

So a large creative human and mineral resource country without an adequate defence industry still potentially could muster all the elements of it's national power to overcome a serious existential threat to it's nationhood. That's what America did in WW11 against imperial Japan and won.

Though lessons learned tells us it is cheaper to prepare for war to prevent the event of war especially preparedness for contemporary threats it still does not negate the advantage of depth and large creative human and material resources.

Patchesagain:
Nope.

South Africa is better equipped for ALL spectrums of warfare. Simple.

Furthermore, if it is threat dependant, then your entire ranking system if fvcked because Malawi has no threats, hence, their military is the best prepared!

Wrong except on paper and TV. The SA military has not been put to the test in modern times except for one significant peacekeeping mission in the Congo with mixed results and where they have had actual combat engagement they failed abysmally i.e Bangui in CAR—not the fault of the soldiers I must add (there are some competent elements within SA' military) but it's military leadership back home for poor planning and support a leadership dearth symptomatic of SA's military in the last decade.

The ranking does not reflect actual realities.

But I like that you dare to dream.

jln115:
Agreed but doctrine wasn't to relevant with regards to my replay to Covert1.....anyway seems to me Covert1 only likes to reply on the other thread where he can derail for all to see.......quick to shy away from an actual discussion, just proves his an out and out troll!

Just look at you caught backbiting.

I don't have the time to respond to every contrary opinion which mostly are just soundbites to massage ego and national pride.

foxtrot101:
Hope your Counter terrorism guys are up to the task. Nip in the bud before it evolves.

Well been watching them here shying away from the issue. God forbid islamafascists jihadists decide to make SA their next port of call for terror the size we've seen in north-east Nigeria and the Lake Chad region cos they will quickly overrun the place. SA does not have and have not built the kind of CT/COIN capacity needed to deal with threats of that nature and magnitude. CT/COIN capability and capacity takes months and years to develop.

However SA Muslims though insignificant in numbers have not shown the strain of Jihadi Wahhabism that is the source of all terrorism.

Henry240:
Very beautiful and entertaining Nigerian Air Force documentary.

It is becoming increasingly clear that we might not purchase the JF-17. No mention of the aircraft in any of the last 3 documentaries produced by the Air Force.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-39MpNaRXqw

Very beautiful NAF documentary. A must watch.

Henry240:
Nigerian Air Force Display Video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdYLNJrmITk

@Oyinpr didn't you make any vid? Cos I find this one below par which is why I didn't post it. As usual the way things are done in Naija more view of the politician talking than the real thing (bigmanism go kill us). If it were the southies they'd so well edit that display by now the internet will be popping.

CaptainStephen:
Understood but that is not the authority of the CDS to arrest, things are not done that way.

The CDS acting outside the authority of his commander-in-chief will be considered high treason however that is not even necessary as the way things work in Abuja is one word of dismissal communicated from the office of the president through the right source in the presidency and the IGP will be packing his bags with immediate effect even before he sees the presidential courier arriving at his headquarters within minutes of the order. That's the way.

However it is the job of the CDS his principal military adviser and the NSA to advise the president accordingly following the unprofessional and irresponsible conduct of the IGP in respect to the Senate.

The problem is the president not the IGP.