₦airaland Forum

Don't squeeze 'em bullets in too hard. Give them room to breath.

#biggiesmalls get it?

Lovely dress though.

My honest opinion? All these arguments are totally unnecessary.

Is tithing in the Bible? Yes

Is it a sinful or negative practice? No.

Will God punish the Christians that tithe? Er, probably not since it is not a sin.

So, what is the fuss? If people want to pay it fine. If they are convinced they don't need to, fine. Be it unto everyone according to their faith/belief. Whether you are tithing according to the order of Melchizedek or the Mosaic law, or you believe Christ did not abolish tithing, does it really matter?

To be honest, Christianity and most other religions are based on faith. No one has seen God, not even Freeze. The Bible, even the one that Freeze is quoting from so vehemently, may be nothing but a book of fairy tales written by men with wild imaginations; yet it may indeed be the Living Word of God. We only believe through faith. So for one man to think he knows it better than the next, be he a Pastor, Reverend, Doctor of Theology or even Freeze is just presumptuous. Nobody is God's PA or Personal Secretary to categorically say he knows the ways of God better.

Different doctrines come up every day. Even Freeze is preaching his own doctrine according to his own understanding and interpretation of the Bible.

As for preachers using the tithes of the poor to finance their lavish lifestyles? Nothing new. Even in the scriptures Freeze quoted in Malachi 3, the priests were stealing and not remitting the tithe. So God chastised them in that scripture. He didn't ask the Israelites to stop giving it, he addressed the priests. Now Freeze says the present day Christian is not a priest, but even that can be countered by 1 Peter 2:9 - "But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God's very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light."

We can go on and on with scriptures and counter scriptures on tithing. At the end of the day, God judges the motives of the heart.

Student125:
This will be my last response to ur mention if you still can't get d point.
Religion was forced on a child with a must to believe all the teachings. Religion has given them a box within which they can limit their thinking cuz if they go out of d box, Their heavenly father has threatened them with eternal fire.
People smoking, drinking, fornicating etc is a choice, they are doing that even when they know d consequences, nobody forced it on them as a way of life or have u heard there is a punishment for not doing it?
I keep repeating I never equate intelligence to non payment of tithe, there are lots of intelligent fellow who are too proud to accept they have been fooled for a long time. They know d real fact now but as u said, they made their choice to continue cuz of pride.
But SOME don't know this facts yet, they don't have access to them not until recently that someone decided to wake them up. These set never had Choice, they see d paying as their birth right.
while some are just too dull to use their God given brain. these set wait for others to think for them.
Like I said, fact can be proven wrong, which is what u are expected to do with strong backup from the Bible, instead you attack the messenger.

This will also be my last reply to you. You are talking from a myopic viewpoint about a subject you don't understand or have chosen not to understand simply because of a bias. Who told you those paying tithes are not making a choice? As a child nobody ever taught me about tithing. I can't even remember anybody telling me about tithing. I only got to understand the concept as a teenager who had a higher level of understanding. I have two kids of my own right now, and I have never told them about tithing. To insinuate that freethinking adults who give their hard earned money out to a church or pastor are not making a conscious choice is the most preposterous thing I have ever heard. Are you now equating them to robots?

Okay, what about those who were not born Christians and only got converted in their adult life? Were they also programmed from childhood too? Not everybody discovered religion as a child. There are millions of people who only committed themselves to Islam, Christianity, Buddhism etc as adults. I have a British friend who practices a form of Judaism called Kaballah. He wasn't indoctrinated into that as a child. I also know Muslims who converted to Christianity as adults and who pay tithes. Were they indoctrinated as children too? These clear and factual examples make your point on indoctrination mute and untenable. Religion is not limited to Nigeria or Africa either. Neither is tithing. I would suggest you take a class in anthropology and psychology to understand how human beings work.

Lastly, and this has been my point all along, how is it anybody's business what people do with their money? Whether they were indoctrinated, brainwashed or whatever, as long as no criminal case can be established to show that there was any form of deception or unlawful coercion, how is it your business, or that of Freeze, or whoever. People need to learn to mind their business and stop trying to live other people's lives for them. Isn't it a free world anymore? Gosh! The nerve you folks have, saying that they are too proud to accept. How do you know you are not the one who is wrong? Stop thinking of yourself more highly than others. It is in bad taste. And even if they are proud, how does it affect you? Someone who drinks excessively has a greater chance of affecting our lives negatively (drunk driving, public nuisance), the one who smokes too (environmental pollution, 2nd-degree smoke leading to cancer), yet it is the man who quietly gives his money to something he believes in that is more disturbing to you? Come on!

Pray tell, how are you and the likes of Freeze different from the Pastor "indoctrinating" people with messages about tithe? Are you also not trying to indoctrinate your own beliefs on others forcefully with these needless arguments about stuff that doesn't really concern you? Isn't that what bigotry is? Intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself. Do what you believe in, and let others do as they believe as long as no one is being hurt. EOD.

Student125:
What u don't get is, if not for d brainwash they won't be paying. they have been exposed to d wrong info since infant and so it has become part of them. that's y I said they have no choice of their own. Now that what they hear contradict what they grew up to believe, they don't want to admit they've been fooled for long that's y their two line of defense(Malachi, and Abraham paying once war benefit) are weightless. The reason they attack the messenger instead of them to prove d message wrong.
Like I said, religion is indoctrination and can never be compared with gadget.
Sure, nobody will force anybody to pay or not but the facts are there for d intelligent to c.

So why do people still smoke even after all the messages about smokers being liable to die young, including my medical doctor friend? Why do people still drink excessively despite the dangers of liver cirrhosis? Why do folks still have unprotected sex despite the prevalence of STDs? Why do people eat unhealthy stuff despite the knowledge about obesity, cholesterol and what not?

Is it because they are not intelligent? No. It us because they have the ability to make a choice. That is what makes us higher animals. Or are the scientific facts not there for them to see?

Now, if you think not paying tithes will make you do better in an IQ test than someone who pays tithes, then I don't know what to say to you.

Oh wait, I do. NEWS FLASH! Not paying tithes doesn't make you more intelligent, richer or in anyway better than those who do. But you know what, if the illusion that not paying tithes makes you more intelligent let's you sleep better at night, then by all means be my guest. It's your CHOICE after all.

I'd like to wager that you swear by Darwin's theory of evolution even though you've never seen an ape change into a man before. I can also bet you believe it's more polite to give someone an object with your right hand instead of the left. Don't let me get started on the things you've been indoctrinated into from your childhood.

Funny thing? For someone who keeps mentioning the word "FACTS" in this discussion; you're the one who actually wrote this:

Student125:
Do u know there is a difference between fact and truth. A fact might not be true.

Proudlyngwa:
2nd gear does not necessarily translate to higher pace.
It means more urgency.

We are too casual in our approach to games.

We need to kill off games as early as possible, if possible.

United is doing good, but with the insane amounts spent. We should be instilling fear into lesser teams.

People need to stop equating the amount spent on players to mean quality of the squad. Players in the EPL are ridiculously overpriced. It is the curse that comes with more earnings in TV rights and sponsorship. Selling clubs quote ridiculous amounts and the buying clubs don't mind paying because the money is there.

Fans should stop basing their expectations on money spent. It will only lead to unnecessarily high hopes.

EYIBLESSN:
Olodo. Is it FORMAL OR FORMER ?

When will you start to think like a more matured minds. Stop behaving like a teenage.


You sure say you go school ?

Not another one? Why are there so many wicked people on Nairaland? Chai, Chai, Chai!

But you sef no try o.

Proudlyngwa:
We needed that 2nd gear in the first half.

2nd half would have been more of routine practice.

Playing at a high tempo doesn't necessarily guarantee that you will score goals. You can meet an inspired goalkeeper. The opposing team may match you pace for pace, and may even be luckier than you in front of goal. Then you'll end up frustrated and you'll end up exerting yourself unnecessarily for 90 minutes. Maybe even pick up a few injuries.

We won the game through a patient approach. There are still many games to play, and we are still in four competitions.

Student125:
If your point is we've all been programmed before, I think there is no argument about that yes we all have passed through a form of brainwash.
I have said that in one of my post in d past, but in the presence of glaring fact yet refuse to liberate the mind, then such fellow is worthy of any name being called.
Don't compare religion with gadget please, even when gadgets are advertised, you can decide to ignore if you feel they are not necessary. we buy them to satisfy our selfs but religion is to satisfy God so you have no choice when religiously brainwashed.

What are they supposed to liberate their minds from. Willingly giving their money to something, someone or a cause they believe in? Are the Pastors holding a gun to their heads? There are people who give their lives savings to animal rights groups and many other seemingly ridiculous causes. But they believe in it and that is fine, even if it seems stupid to the world. What makes anyone believe that their own opinion is superior on a subject matter like this? Isn't that highly presumptuous?

What are the glaring facts that you talk off? That the Pastor has bought a jet? If the member is happy to contribute his widow's mite to that fine. If he is not, trust me he will leave that church without Freeze's prompting.

You say religion is to satisfy God, but that is not entirely true. Religion is also about satisfying self. It's about people seeking some form of inner peace. For some it is the hope of a better life for themselves through service to a higher being. People have not seen God, yet they believe because they derive some satisfaction from their belief. And they have a right to that.

You say don't compare gadgets with religion, but the need for both comes from the same place. A need to feel good about oneself. Be it satisfaction from owning the latest technological toy or the thought of going to heaven.

In truth, irrespective of whatever "brainwashing", every adult makes a choice about their religion. They are not robots. They are conscious of their choices, whether good or bad. Even the suicide bomber makes a conscious choice.

We live in a world where people are told to respect gay rights, gender rights, animal rights etc. But it becomes hard to respect people's religious rights. People's rights to free association. Sometimes I get confused.


As long as giving tithes to your pastor doesn't hurt the next man. Live and let live.

AndrewFarms:
And that he did....
i have a feeling he has something unexpected planned off his sleeves

I think the Benfica game was a good one. Especially the fact that we didn't even kick into 2nd gear and still had a comfortable game.

JaneyLuna:
ok,

yeah, that's a good contribution,

tithing to me isn't bad, but I believe one mustn't pay ones tithe in a church

you can pay it to an individual in need

could be used for charity works,
all that matters is, it is 1/10 if your income

and you are giving it out with a free heart

True, you can give it to an individual or charity. It still doesn't guarantee proper use of your money though. The owner of the charity could be using such funds for personal gain without your knowledge. He could be building a mansion in the village or sending his kids to school's in the UK.

You give a beggar on the street some money. He could be using it for drugs. Or may even be building a house in his village while you are still a tenant. None of it is foolproof.

Everyone has a choice and they should be free to exercise it. That's my take on this whole tithing issue. Your money, your choice.

Student125:
I agree with you on the last paragraph a bit, religion on its own is not the problem if we understand to what purpose religion serves. All those u mentioned work, work, work and then pray that's y they are progressing but reverse is the case here. We believe so much that with miracle, all our problems will be solved.
On ur first paragraph, nobody need to preach or brainwash me to spend money on gadget. it s my choice which is different from what u instill in somebody when they are vulnerable at young age. They grow to believe in it. These people have no choice, they are programmed.

You see, that's the thing. You think you haven't been programmed, but you have from the day they bought you your first toy or you rode in Dad's car or you saw that Milo papapapa advert. Or the Mr. Biggs advert. You grew up with the notion that all these stuff will make you happy and comfortable. That they were essential to given you a certain status in society. Even when you couldn't afford it yet, you desired it. And the moment you started to make money you began to acquire the gadgets. You grew up to believe it. We all did.

Tell me you were not told as a child to study hard, get good grades and you would get a good job, be comfortable, get married and be happy? Does, it necessarily work out that easily?

Advertising and television are subtle forms of brainwashing. I should know.

Student125:
You are talking about opinion or choice when people's brain have been programmed since infant that u must pay if you consider yourself a Christian. Now someone is trying to feed them with the truth whether they will remain deluded or free them selves and the deluded are attacking their helper. They've tried AL they could to defend tithing wit 'we are paying to move the ministry forward, later it was countered that that's not the purpose of tithe, now they are defending it with excuses ranging from they indulge in many charity program' to 'leave them to God for judgement.
Reason Nigeria will continue to remain backward. When last did the black nation come up with invention/ innovation that will benefit the whole world at large, it can never happen until we start asking questions, until we start using our brain.

Let's stop deceiving ourselves. We have all been programmed at one time or the other to spend our money on stuff we don't need. Making others richer while we are no better off. That's the power of advertising. Even with all the knowledge we have gained about healthy living, have people stopped smoking, drinking excessively, eating junk food, doing drugs? What about all the money we spend on getting the latest gadgets? PS2, PS3, PS4? IPhone 5, 6,7,8,X? Windows, Cars, Television, cable TV, each with a new "feature" that in truth is not so different from the next.

And who is getting richer while we feed our consumerism and need to be cool? We are all in this matrix together. Let no one think he is better than the next man. We all make our choices. For some, it's the Pastor. For others, it is corporate executives feeding on our fantasies to become billionaires. There's a thin line between both divides.

Lastly,religion doesn't stifle development or innovation. Go and ask them in Israel, UAE, heck US and UK. Germany is governed by a Christian party. Greed and corruption, that is what kills development.

ALAYORMII:
Can people just leave freeze to his opinion

Has Freeze left people to their own opinion or choices? People are free to do what they want with their money. We may not like it, but it's their money and their choice.

Give it to your pastor
Play Betnaija
Blow it on booze in the club
Carry olosho
Give it to charity
Whatever.

Everyone will live with the choices they make. Who appointed Freeze to free any "sheeple?"

freecocoa:
I didn't want to call anyone names but all these people blasting the yeye freezer over his stance on tithes, are very stvpid, how can a grown a$$ man be dashing another money and say he's giving it to God? Mschew

It's called "choice". Why should a grown ass anybody be so concerned about what others do with their money.

In truth, most people have one thing on the other they are spending their money on, when that money could be put to better use in society. Nobody holy pass.

GavelSlam:
I now understand why you always sound frustrated.

Oh lawd! Bhet wai?

sanpipita:
Ignore his likes they don't understand the implications of things, they are only programmed to defend the indefensible just for few crumbs.

I don't really have time this money but where is the data to back up this credit access claims, do they realize what Nigerians go through in bid to access credit loans? the rate is even killing but yet some wants to lie

While not saying this report is credible or not, and also acknowledging the problems banks create, in truth a lot of Nigerian small scale businesses are not credit worth simply because they don't even keep proper books that show their cash inflow and outflow patterns. No one is going to lend you money when they can't see in black and white a steady pattern of how much your business makes monthly.

A lot of our small business owners also need to improve their business practices.

Okoyiboz3:
You think every woman is like your wife?

Dayum!!!!

cstr1000:
I don't know which is more funny.
That conte believes that baka-fab is good enough against Roma or that a manure fan thinks united are on the same level as Roma.
Strootman alone is better than everybody in the manure team.

Awww. Here, have a handkerchief. Strootman is obviously also better than the entire Chelsh*t team.

CrEaToRmalden:
even Chelsea's thread is directing me to Man utd thread.


we're the kings.

Chai, Chai, Chai! What a calamity. Shame catch the mod. Bhet wai?

chiiraq802:
Abeg u guys should stop dissing chelsea, they are playing a much stronger team.....#na dis nonsense man utd dey against benfica, dem go use face chelsea on sunady....
As if man utd can play #roma and come out victorious

Oh really? I thought you lot said we wouldn't make it past Basel and Benfica when the draws were made. Abeg, let Chelsea carry their cross. Mind you, we once beat a better Roma side 7-1 in the Champions League. It can happen again.

EMMAHOT:
School E Na No Go, Time E Na No Knw, Abeg Who Say D Match Na 8:45pm U Ned Deliverance. D Actual Time 4 Dis Match Na 19:45pm Dats 7:45pm. Tank U Drink Responsibly *

Wee you kip kwayet?

We are now one hour ahead of the Uk bro. So it's 7.45PM for them, 8.45PM Nigerian time.

AndrewFarms:
Any weapon fashioned against Manchester United during the remaining 30+ matches of this season shall not prosper, and we must do the triple this season In Jesus Name.....

Oya make una dey pray this prayer......

cc

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Amin, amin, amin, amin lorukò Jesu!

Magnifico2000:
Tottenham defeated liverpool 4-1 and we defeated tottenham 1-0. Had it been we dint park the bus against liverpool, we could have won them 5-1.

Oh lawd! Did you just start watching football yesterday?

How about since Spurs beat Liverpool 4-1, they should have also beaten us 4-1? Football is not mathematics mister.

AndrewFarms:
nice to see you in full gear bro

Yes o. We're staying on top of the matter.

engrelvis:
If we had played like dis with Liverpool,we wud v won.no d one mourino will b parking d bus.we v gud attacking players

If..., is a very convenient word after the fact. We could also have been torn to shreds by Salah, Coutinho and Firminho. I'm sure if we had drawn this game, you would have been critical of Mourinho.

The game plan against Liverpool was simply, keep it tight at the back, catch them on the counter. Problem was we kept giving away possession every time we had a chance to counter. Every game is not the same. An away draw at Anfield is not a bad result.

bettercreature:
Mourinho need to start trusting this guys,He is an idiot
They can move mountains if they are trusted

I don't think it's all about not trusting the players. The players also need to have some self belief and come with their A-game all the time. Sometimes, they are the ones who let the manager down. But the buck stops at the gaffer's table, so he gets the stick always.

Allylic:
Proud man u fan...with big shoulder pad...win loose or draw, I rep man u

Correct geh. We stay United through thick and thin, good or bad.

AndrewFarms:
the Lukaku you guys were criticizing has giving us the assist for a goal....
like i said... so many bandwagons following Manchester United....

Their matter tire me o. Dey think it's so easy. Good win for us. Unto the next.

SuperSuave:
mikhitaryan is the weak link in that united defense, he's not the sharpest tool in the shed, Mata is better in that position. His decision making is slow and poor, poor incomplete passes. The united players have tried in the first half against the thought of the spurs dictating the show. #GGMU

I have been saying this for weeks now. Mkhi is the reason our attack has been largely ineffective in the last month. With Pogba supporting him and drawing out opposing players, he was doing well at the start of the season. Now, he is so poor at launching attacks. Incomplete passes, dribbles, the works.

chineduemmao:
christians are bigots, muslims are bigot, traditnalists are bigot, expect some people to be more reasonable. atheist! oh it turnd out de are also bigots!

I just tire.

TheArchangel:
why the initial mistake that will later needs human correction ? We are still talking about the omniscient and omnipotent, right?

Didn't you already give a possible answer to your own question in the post below.

TheArchangel:
I get that. And not all defect are caused by "what they take during pregnancy". The contaminated environment, radiation from chemical companies and lots of them has a major part in congenital and teratogenic effect on fetus.
My post is meant for the "thank God" crews. Why allow it to happen then wait back for humans to do the corrections , what happened to " intelligent design and everything created by God is beautiful religious"mantra?.

chineduemmao:
Nigerians claiming atheist without real understanding of atheism or argument...lol.

They make me laugh to be quite honest. Nairaland atheists preach more than Jehovah's Witness. Moving from thread to thread preaching their "gospel" trying to ridicule those who believe in God like that is going to change anything.

Atheism has existed from the ages, yet they act like they just discovered something no one knows about, walking around with a chip on their shoulder, like being an atheist makes you better, richer, or more intelligent than the next man.

How about respecting people's beliefs, whether it be in God, Orunmila, the tooth fairy or Santa Claus. Isn't that what being a liberal freethinker is supposed to be about? Isn't they are worse in their criticism than the Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc that they are attacking.


The funniest part is that atheism is actually a faith-based belief system.