Nicenancy:

Is Jehovah coming? When ?

Splinz:

Soul? No, I've not forgotten anything that needs remembrance. Perhaps at this point, you may want to go back to Genesis when man was created and how he became a living soul (Genesis 2:7). In other words, man don't have a soul but rather, we are souls. That is why it is written, "The soul who sins shall die" (Ezekiel 18:20, KJV). Many other translation renders it this way, "The person who sins will die". Both is correct, that man is a soul; the very person of one's self.
So, you don't have a soul but you are soul. However, man has what is called "the spirit" in/of man (Job 32:8, 1 Corinthians 2:11). And the scriptures shows that whether soul or body; both can be destroyed, i.e, killed (Matthew 10:28)
I'm very much aware of the false teaching that souls don't die, that it lives on even after death. In other words, soul is immortal. But of course when the light of the scriptures is shone on this teaching, it exposes it for what it is; falsehood.
But we know what soul is.
Besides, even if soul were to be as hard as zuma rock (or anything you can think of), will that make He who created the same soul to some sort of struggle or required an eternity, 1000 years, 100 years, 50 years etc, to destroy what He created from the dust of the earth?
My friend, all these are human craftiness. It has been established already, by reason of the brains that God gave us for use, that the only determinant that determines how long an item burns lies solely on the combustible power of the item. In this case, we are talking of the human carcass.
Have you seen where someone is set ablaze before? Even if you've not, using common knowledge, how long do you think the human body can survive even on a stove fire, not to talk of a fire describes as "lake of fire"?
And a cook and iron crafter only leaves those things on fire for as long as necessary. In a cook's case, till the food is done. And the iron crafter, till his precious metal is ready. In the end, those things are not left indefinitely on fire and not without a defined end. What about the wicked? The end result is ashes. And the time needed? Common sense tells me that any serious fire can burn the human body to ashes within few hours or even an hour.
Besides, your views are contradictory (it is expected). How do you subscribed to eternal torture and still believes that the wicked will turn to ashes? If they are tortured forever, when will they become ashes?
You have to fix this contradiction, and you can only do so with God's word. For God is not the author of confusion.

---

Dtruth, like I told you earlier, the bible must always interpret itself, not our skillful use of words. Perhaps you're not aware that the wicked, actually people on this earth in time past, had already undergone the "fire of eternal punishment", and that those people are neither in that fire roasted nor is the fire burning today. Do you know? Of course, I wouldn't bother proving it for obvious reasons.
It was for your own good that I advised as a friend, to do a fresh studies. After all it is instructed, "study to show yourself approved" (2 Timothy 2:15). But I guess there's no need since you think you know. But here is wisdom:
Have a good day. See you some other time.

Kingsnairaland:
thank God they quit politics so that we won't have any of them in the government house talking rubbish to people there lololololol

MaxInDHouse:

My brother we're doing fine!
Please the highlighted is very important. Don't think all these Apostates are disfellowshiped!
Many of them are still associating with us but in their hearts they are waiting for the opportunity to support God's enemies when the great tribulations begin so as to help God's enemies in fishing us out! Matthew 24:10
So they've been stumbled due to their selfish cravings but since they know that there is no other place where pure worship is practiced they're laying low waiting for an opportunity to devastate the relative peace we are enjoying in God's Organization!
You would have had dealings with them in the congragation but because of your our heart you may not notice it. Can you imagine one circuit overseer asking "do you really think God's Kingdom is coming truly as they say?"
So who are "they" that's saying God's Kingdom is coming if not God's word? Or is God's Kingdom also a fabrication of the GB?
This was a circuit overseer o!
Jehovah's spirit have fished him out and now he's just attending meetings but do you think if not due to the courageous act of our sister with whom brother was discussing not knowing that sisters phone was on recording at that moment how will sister back the report against a circuit overseer for goodness sake?
During the interrogation sister said she didn't have the intention to record brother's speech but she wanted to record the usual speaking in tongues that one so called pastor in the area often use during their evening worship as an evidence that they're just spewing gibberish unknowingly to sister that Jehovah's spirit was ready to reveal another thing to her!
So please don't assume they're all disfellowshiped, many of them are still very much with us but only Jehovah knows that they're not of our sort! 1John 2:19

MaxInDHouse:
Keep asking! Matthew 7:7

OkCornel:

Ah alright, thanks for clarifying.
That leaves budaatum and Shadeyinka then.

OkCornel:

Is this the power of your “God”? Your God gave you so much wisdom and sound mind to falsely accuse DappaD, Budaatum and Shadeyinka to be JWs without a single shred of evidence?

Hurry up and show us how powerful your “God” is. Perhaps your “God” doesn’t even know where I live to even take my life

thorpido:
The knowledge that you say is available has ceased just as prophesy has ceased according to your interpretation of 1 Corinthians 3:18.Why are you asking me to seek knowledge from JW.org when you say it has ceased?

Splinz:
Thank you, Maximus.You're repeating the same thing DappaD said, which is a lie; falsehood. According to scripture, Melchizedek has no beginning [birth] and no end [death]. Should I listen to God or you? Acts 4:19.
However, I'd accept it for what it is; your opinion or assumption.
Good.
Does the scriptures contain information on "Jehovah God's" father and mother, ancestry and posterity, beginning of His days or the end of His life? Does He even have any?
Thank you.

Splinz:

Thank you, Maximus. Like I said earlier, your opinion on the Personage of Melchizedek is duly noted.

Splinz:

Thank you for coming through. Be assured that I've taken my time to go through your response, exactly like the Bereans did (Acts 17:11). Yes, the scriptures you supplied has been examined.

Now, I'd also share with you my unbiased findings.
Okay, so Jesus had a prehuman existence before coming to earth. Also, He is a created Being unlike His Father who has always existed. Let's prove it (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
Firstly, your proof showing that Jesus was created is Proverbs 8:22-31. Upon examination of this scripture, what I find does not even remotely corroborate your claimed. Perhaps it's a mistake by you. Proverbs 8 in its entirety speaks of WISDOM. To understand, one need to start reading from verse 1, whilst verse 12 makes it much more obvious. In essence, the entirety of it is a personification of wisdom, showing how God possessed wisdom and used same to create the universe. So therefore, using Proverbs 8:22-31 as a supposed proof that Jesus was created is nothing but falsehood; a lie. But of course, I want to believe it was not intentional. Maybe it's a case of careless reading. So I urge you to take a look at it again.

Secondly, saying "before Jehovah God created the heavens and the earth" and quoting Colossians 1:16 in same breath, is a contradiction. This is because "Jehovah God" and Jesus, I want to believe, are different, going by your description. It's either they're different Personages or "Jehovah God" is the same One describes in Colossians 1:16 as the creator of the universe.

The original Hebrew word for God in Genesis is Elohim, a collective noun like family, team etc, all of which have more than one member. Verse 1 reads: "In the beginning God [Elohim] created the heaven and the earth". With this understanding, we can better understand Colossians 1:16. But what is Elohim? When translated, it means "Mighty Ones". Verse 26 is then speaking of this Mighty Ones, actually, the God family, creating man in their image.
John 1:1 shares more light: Here is a description of two Personages: 1. God 2. Word. Together, they're called God. Verse 14 makes it clear that it was the Word, equally called God, that became Jesus. So when wrapped, God is a family made up of two Personages, as against the pagan doctrine of the Trinity.

Furthermore, when you used "Son" and "spirit sons" of God, it should be understood that a Son like Jesus is BEGOTTEN whilst the angels are CREATED. Big difference. The former is directly fathered by God, which resulted in Mary's birth of that Son whilst the latter are created, more like out of nothing. Hebrews 1:14 succinctly captures who the angels are.

So far, you've not been able to prove that Jesus, in His prehuman, was created. Rather, evidence is on the contrary. Instead of creation He is the creator. Of course, you can't honestly use His earthly life to prove that He was created because we know in His prehuman, He existed as God, according to scriptural evidence.
Now, Revelation 3:14 is a mistranslation. Correctly, it should read, "The beginner of all creation". Interestingly, this is in perfect harmony with Colossians 1:15-17, as Jesus the King of creation. Also, the phrase "firstborn of all creation" can't possibly means that He was created. Evidence already shows that He is the creator instead. Perhaps it may interest you to know that just in verse 18, Paul was inspired to write that He is the "firstborn from the dead" and in Romans 8:29 He is the "firstborn among many brethren".That is how the term "firstborn" should be understood.

Indeed, Jesus is the FIRST that has died and came back to life, never to die again. He is also the FIRST born Son of God, with many more sons to be added to the [s]God family at His appearing. The point exactly is that He is the preeminent[/s].

As a fact, it was Christ. He did not just lead the people out of Egypt, He is the God of the Old Testament (1 Corinthians 10:1-4). Yes, think of all those notable things and miracles; all were done by Christ, as the Word and God. Don't forget, God is Elohim.

Of course, you can't in all honesty called Christ - God, Angel Michael. Again, you can't use Daniel's prophecy to say that Michael is Jesus. Perhaps at this time, it may interest you to know that Michael is not the only archangel or chief angel in the scripture. He is, like Gabriel his counterpart said, "but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me" (Daniel 10:13). The phrase "one of the chief princes" means Michael is one out of many or others. In other word, he is not the only chief prince or archangel; there are "chief princes".[
According to scripture, we know of at least three (3) archangels: 1. Michael 2. Gabriel 3. Lucifer (who became satan). Michael is often seen as the defender of God's people, whilst Gabriel is seen as that prince who carries God's special messages, like the visitation to Mary and of course, the prophecy he gave to Daniel, which covers events from Daniel's time till the end of this age. Of course, we know who Satan is now and how he was when he was created. Furthermore, under each of these princes are about one-third of other subordinate angels (Revelation 12:4). The scripture specifically said this of Lucifer, one of the chief.So as you can see, Michael is not the only chief prince or son (angel), neither is he the same as Jesus. Available evidence makes it impossible. In fact, to say that Michael is Jesus is quite embarrassing. And not only that, it insults the Person of Jesus greatly, that the creator is ranked on the same level with His own creation. C'mon DappaD, it's not done.
Michael is who he is; one of the chief princes. Whilst Jesus, his creator, remains his God and Maker.

DappaD no, there's no link here in Isaiah that links Jesus to Michael. As seen already, Michael has always been the defender, called it the army chief. We have seen how he came to fight alongside Gabriel, when the latter was withstood by Lucifer (Satan).

Finally, here's the last undisputed proof of who Jesus was in His prehuman form:
I know it does not yet specifically spelt Jesus out as Melchizedek. Of course, we'll see to it. But first, I want us to look at who this Melchizedek is, as captured in the bold: 1. He is "King of righteousness" and "King of peace" 2. This Personage has no father, no mother, no genealogy, no beginning of days nor end of life. Now, going by your description of "Jehovah God" as the only One without beginning and end, we can agree that He is the One and same as Melchizedek. Isn't it? But without speculation or assumption, let's find out who Paul, under inspiration, made known as Melchizedek:
This is undeniable and can't be refuted. The One of whom Paul is speaking of as Melchizedek is non other than "our Lord" - Christ! Christ, before the Levitical priesthood was instituted or tithes received by Levites, of whom were those required by law to function in the office of the priest, was already functioning in that capacity. Knowing that the Levitical priesthood as established by the order of Aaron was temporary, God first established a priesthood according to the order of Melchizedek, which continues forever. And the same Person who functions then as Melchizedek the priest is the same Person functioning as our High Priest today. That Person is Christ! (You may want to read Hebrews 7 & 8 in its entirety).

---

In conclusion, I believe I've touched on the major points raised by you. I've also left out Jesus earthly life entirely for obvious reasons; understanding His prehuman existence is key to understanding His life on earth. Why did He prayed to God and relied on Him? Why did He glorified the Father? Why this...and why that. All wouldn't arise when Jesus is understood in His prehuman form. Why was He BEGOTTEN for instance? Simple. That was the only way He could be born of a woman, as an eternal Being who has always existed with His Father. It must also be noted that whilst this Mighty Ones were both God, as they say: "Two captain can't be in the same boat", One has to take the lead and the other follows. Philippians 2:5-8 perfectly captures the relationship in the God family. Jesus, though equally God, did not think of it as robbery to leave behind His glorious position as God in order to be born as flesh and blood. And this He did willingly.

DappaD, thank you so much for your time. And just in case you want us to further this discussion, of course write as soon as you can. Many thanks.

Kzinne:
Can black people ever rule themselves effectively??

MaxInDHouse:

Eeeeyaaa!
But it's like your concern is not my concern and below is my concern o!
Topic "Did You Know: The History of Christianity Can Be Traced To Only Roman Catholic?"

Splinz:
Okay, so there's this doctrine of JWs I've been hearing often. Also, it has generated a lot of heated arguments, much more than any other topic among JWs.
Now, I'd like us to discuss it. I mean, I want to hear specifically from a member of JWs here about this topic before I can draw my conclusions. The topic in question is: WHO IS JESUS. And please, I'd like it answered in the following order:
1. A. Before born of Mary, did Jesus have a preexistence? B. If yes, who was he before he was born of a woman?

2. Whilst he was on earth, who was he? And...

3. After ascension, what is his current position?

Please, I'd prefer DappaD to come for this discussion for obvious reason:
I believe he has that needed maturity for a discussion of this kind. Thank you.

Splinz:
Okay, so there's this doctrine of JWs I've been hearing often. Also, it has generated a lot of heated arguments, much more than any other topic among JWs.
Now, I'd like us to discuss it. I mean, I want to hear specifically from a member of JWs here about this topic before I can draw my conclusions. The topic in question is: WHO IS JESUS. And please, I'd like it answered in the following order:
1. Before born of Mary, did Jesus have a preexistence? If yes, who was he before he was born of a woman?
2. Whilst he was on earth, who was he? And...
3. After ascension, what is his current position?
Please, I'd prefer DappaD to come for this discussion for obvious reason:
I believe he has that needed maturity for a discussion of this kind. Thank you.

MightySparrow:

We are saying the same thing: God exalted him to his own class - God. John 1:1

omojeesu:
May Jehovah deliver you from your blindness! Jesus an angel?
Hebrews
1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Conclusion:
Jesus is God-kind in origin, in essence and not angel-kind. He is neither an angel nor Archangel Michael.

DappaD:


Hebrews 1:9
NET Bible
“You love justice and hate evil. For this reason God, your God has anointed you with the oil of joy, elevating you above your companions.”

International Standard Version
“You love justice and hate wickedness. That is why God, even your God, has anointed you rather than your companions with the oil of gladness.”

Darby Bible
“Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness; therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy companions.”


Please who are the companions of Jesus? Hebrews 1:4,13 answers this to be the angels. Why do we say so? Because Jesus is God's firstborn Son(Colossians 1:15-16) while the angels are his other sons who do his will(Psalm 103:20, Hebrews 1:14)

So I'm certain that Hebrews 1:9 should be able to clear up the confusion because that place said that Jesus was elevated to a higher position above his peers/companions[the angels] . See Philippians 2:9-11 also.

Bishopkingsley:

MightySparrow:1 In the beginning was the Archangel Michael and the Archangel Michael was with God, and the Archangel Michael was God. 2 The same ( archangel Michael) was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him (archangel Michael); and without him (Archangel Michael) was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him (Archangel Michael) was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a Archangel Michael is born, unto us a Archangel Michael is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Archangel Michael shall be called Everlasting Father.John 5: 23
That all men should honour the Archangel Michael, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Archangel Michael honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.This is the kind of thing jehova witness preach does it not sound satanic

Mbataku96:
must one be before he acquires knowledge of the word

Workch:
I ignored it because it’s ridiculous when Christians try to use the Bible to convince someone that doesn’t believe in the Bible. Doesn’t make sense

RighteousI:

Worldly churches mean churches where they don't practice modesty, churches where the women where mini skirt, earrings, makeup and the rest.

Churches like dunamis, redeemed, Daystar and the rest.
The doctrine of these worldly churches contradicts the gospel of deeper life, so why is Kumuyi associating deeper life church with these worldly churches by inviting pastors of such churches to minister to deeper lifers?