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Celebrities › Re: American Singer Ciara Announces She's Releasing A Song Wit Nigerian Singer Tekno by DavidEsq(m): 7:31am On Aug 10, 2018

Dope

Politics › Re: Police Reports DSS Probe To Osinbajo by DavidEsq(m): 3:14am On Aug 10, 2018

Huh

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 2:47am On Aug 10, 2018

BabaIbo:
It doesn't make sense, yes.
Moreover that's not what you typed, so that's settled.

Jesus Christ founded Catholic Church, do you expect them His disciples or apostles to create their own and leave their master's own or you expect them to leave the work he handed over to them. I believe you're wiser

No matter how you try to involve Buhari or political talks using his certificate issue as a ground into this discussion, I won't give you, this is strictly religious talk

In one of ur earlier quotes, u placed emphasis on Matthew 16:19, where Christ talked about "giving u the keys of the Kingdom". The question is: was he referring solely to Peter when he said so? What does that statement "give u d keys of the Kingdom" symbolise?
In Luke 22:29 and 30, Jesus said "and I make a covenant with u, just as my father has made a covenant with me, for a Kingdom, so that u may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel".
The use of the word "thrones" means that Jesus cldnt have been talking to Peter alone, since it would take more than one person to sit on "thrones" (more than one throne). This is further strengthened by Matthew 19:28 wr Jesus said "....truly I say to u, I the recreation, when the son of man sit down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel. See also Revelations 21:14. So Jesus wasn't talking to Peter alone, when he said "I will give u the keys of the Kingdom". What then was Jesus talking about?
Jesus was talking about authority to Shepherd the congregation and since it wasn't only Peter he was referring to, he was therefore giving the authority to Shepherd the congregation to all the Apostles. That is why in Acts 15:2, we see Paul and Barnabas being selected to go to the congregation in Jerusalem to further provide them with the necessary instructions on spiritual matters and we see these instructions at Acts 15:19-29. Also, in Galatians 2:8, Apostle Paul confirmed that Peter wasn't the only one Appointed at the same time, to Shepherd the congregation: "For the one who empowered Peter for an apostleship to those who are circumcised also empowered me for those who are of the nations (the gentiles).
Now, to further explain that statement of Jesus Christ in Matthew 16:19, Jesus further stated in Matthew 18:18 that whatever "u (the shepherds) bind on earth is bound in heaven". Was Jesus saying that heaven (God) would follow or support completely, whatever decisions the imperfect shepherds took? No! Jesus was simply saying that whatever decisions the shepherds made in respect of the congregation on spiritual matters should reflect God's views on such matters and same would therefore, get God's support. That is why in verse 15 down to 17, he talked about settling matters within the congregation, in accordance with Godly principles. That is also why, at verse 18, he then made it clear that such decision in settling such matters would have the support of Heaven. Jesus was certainly not referring to Peter alone. That is why at Hebrews 13:17, it says: "be obedient to those taking the lead among u and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over u, as those who will render account.........,".
If Peter was the first Pope as u claim Matthew 16:19 purports, then who was the second pope immediately after peter and by what means was he (the second Pope) appointed? If the first pope was appointed by a perfect man (Jesus) would the appointment of the second pope not be made by an imperfect man, since Jesus had already risen at the time of Peter's death?
If Matthew 16:18 & 19 is the basis for the infallibility of the pope, how come Apostle Paul in Galatians 11-13 found Paul to be guilty of racism and rebuked him to his face, publicly at verse 14? U said every gathering must have a leader who in turn must know wat his duty would be. If not for Paul's rebuke, would Peter have known that it was his duty not to segregate? What does dis tell us about the position of leadership as the bible put it? In Hebrews 10:24 we are told to "consider one another so as to incite to love and do fine works". Is this the pattern of the leadership of the papacy? Hell no! Rather, the decree of 1870 declared anyone who didn't accept or believe the pope to be a successor to Peter, as a Heretic. The punishment of being a heretic is burning at the stake. Chai! embarassed

. Barbecuing a human being embarassed

.
Hebrews 13:17 uses the word "those"; it does not use the word "the one". Meaning it has never been the duty of one to shepherd the congregation. Rather, it is a select few. Deuteronomy 1:13 - 15 confirms this fact. See also Acts 20:28, Titus 1:5.
The question of infallibility of the pope is addressed and condemned by Romans 12:3, dat also condemns the idea of man making fellow man a saint.
Lastly, I'm surprised that u avoided the clear purport of Peter's own words at 1 Peter 2:4-8, where Peter identified Jesus as the very stone upon which the congregation or church is built, which also tallies with Jesus' words at Matthew 21:42 and the same Peter's words at Acts 4:8,11.
I'm indeed surprised shocked

; and shocked, if I may add huh

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 12:26am On Aug 10, 2018

BabaIbo:
Mr man go and check the response you gave then, I only copied it, I didn't edit it or delete anything. That's the exact message I saw before quoting you. even if you add where or were it won't make any sense because it will be a wrong statement, if you doubt me... this is what the statement will look like with where or were...

Please tell us where Apostle Paul and the rest Apostles were Catholics and prayed as Catholics pray... does that make any sense to you.

You meant to ask the person you're arguing with back then to tell you if Apostle Paul and other Apostles were Catholics and do they pray the way Catholics pray, so stop shifting goal post.

Listen in the early time a Catholic is equal to a Christian and a Christian is equal to a Catholic, that was how it's before some people left/break off... and I hope you know the earliest recorded person or people to leave, using that as a guide, where do you think Apostle Paul and other Apostles belong, FYI he's a saint in Catholic Church. The fact that Catholic church was founded by Jesus is enough reason to tell you other apostles including Paul were Catholics. can we just end this argument because since you don't want to accept the obvious truth with enough facts, we will only keep going on and on with this argument. EOD, Thanks

U have not given me a single scripture to prove ur point. The only one u cited, that is, Peter being the rock, upon which the church was founded, I showed u other scriptures that proved ur understanding of the said scripture was wrong. U cldnt counter that fact.
As for the keys to the kingdom, hold that thought. I wld show u something. I appreciate ur interest in spiritual matters.

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 12:21am On Aug 10, 2018

BabaIbo:
It doesn't make sense, yes.
Moreover that's not what you typed, so that's settled.

Jesus Christ founded Catholic Church, do you expect them His disciples or apostles to create their own and leave their master's own or you expect them to leave the work he handed over to them. I believe you're wiser

No matter how you try to involve Buhari or political talks using his certificate issue as a ground into this discussion, I won't give you, this is strictly religious talk

OK I'm not using this to distract u bro. Sori bout that; but it's kinda funny u say my use of "where" doesn't make sense. U know say I be A1 English student? Don't wori, I'm just showing off for a few minutes.
On a serious note, I meant to use the word "where". Don't mind Seun's made-in-Ibadan auto correct grin

.
Bro, can u show me where Jesus prayed to his mother or where the Apostles prayed to Mary? Just show me, ayam begging u. If u don't show me, would u let me show u wr Jesus forbade or discouraged eulogising or giving reverence to Mary?
I'm waiting.......

Romance › Re: What 'break-up' Lines Were You Served? Let's Share! by DavidEsq(m): 12:09am On Aug 10, 2018

Kaylexzy:
Sister, kwontinu lying o

Abi he ran away without saying anything?

That's the word bro grin

2 Likes

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 4:50pm On Aug 09, 2018

BabaIbo:
Mr man go and check the response you gave then, I only copied it, I didn't edit it or delete anything. That's the exact message I saw before quoting you. even if you add where or were it won't make any sense because it will be a wrong statement, if you doubt me... this is what the statement will look like with where or were...

Please tell us where Apostle Paul and the rest Apostles were Catholics and prayed as Catholics pray... does that make any sense to you.

You meant to ask the person you're arguing with back then to tell you if Apostle Paul and other Apostles were Catholics and do they pray the way Catholics pray, so stop shifting goal post.

Listen in the early time a Catholic is equal to a Christian and a Christian is equal to a Catholic, that was how it's before some people left/break off... and I hope you know the earliest recorded person or people to leave, using that as a guide, where do you think Apostle Paul and other Apostles belong, FYI he's a saint in Catholic Church. The fact that Catholic church was founded by Jesus is enough reason to tell you other apostles including Paul were Catholics. can we just end this argument because since you don't want to accept the obvious truth with enough facts, we will only keep going on and on with this argument. EOD, Thanks

At the bolden:
So that line doesn't make English sense to u? Buhari why? Why have u infected us with ur Nepa bill for academic certificate embarassed

.
The only possible place wr the Apostles were seen to have been Catholics and to have also prayed as Catholics is the bible but since its not in the bible, that's why I asked u to tell me "where". U dey hear abi u dey understand?

NYSC › Re: Female Corper Sexually Harasses Male Corper At Lagos NYSC Camp, Touches His Dick by DavidEsq(m): 4:00pm On Aug 09, 2018

pocohantas:
He fcked up.

He wasn't supposed to give her only one slap.

1 Like

Family › Re: Lady Tried To Turn Off Gas In Her Kitchen. See What Happened Next. Photos by DavidEsq(m): 12:12pm On Aug 09, 2018

arrestdarrester:
The kind of loving God that has been and is still patient with you. You're planning for the time you'll put your house in order and surrender to Jesus secretly on your death bed? Because that's how a lot of your type hope to end up after deceiving so many...

...but God is not mocked. He is the God of 'suddenly'...

Repent now!

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 9:14am On Aug 09, 2018

BabaIbo:
If you think you can deny, you're wrong because the Internet never forgets.
What are insinuating with that citation you gave here?

To understand u clearer, Please tell us, Apostle Paul and the rest Apostles were catholics and prayed as Catholics pray.
Besides I'm surprised that with all ur "certainty", u didn't or shld I say cldnt cite a single scripture. This is my citation: Acts 1:21 - 26 shows that it was due to the activities and behaviour of the 1st century Christians that led to the people of Antioch calling the Apostles, Christians. Pls enlighten us on how u arrived at ur conclusion.

BTW has it gotten to the level of using insults just because you're out of idea. I know your type

The word I used was "pls tell ur where". Why did u remove the "were" na? As for the part u referred to as "insult", Heck no! It was neva an insult.

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 8:01am On Aug 09, 2018

BabaIbo:
Smiles, I gave you bible verses to support my argument, you said I forgot to refute other scriptures.
Read Mathew 16 vs 13-20, pay attention to 17, 18 and 19 precisely. That's enough to support my argument

He said the truth didn't come to him from any human being but it was given directly by my Father in Heaven. (hope you know what that means?)
He said you're a rock, on this rock I will build my church, and not even death will ever be able to overcome it. what does this words mean to you?
He proceeded by saying I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven...
You should be able to know which church is the first Christian church on earth or which apostle is the greatest from my illustrations. well you're free to your opinion. Have a nice day

Was it Paul only he was referring to when he said "I give u the keys...."? Let's discuss that when I return from work or during office hours later today? Just hold ur bible ready sha

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 7:50am On Aug 09, 2018

BabaIbo:
I no see anything from all you sent/quoted/replied. I still stand on my point, just that I no get that kind time to embark on this type of argument when the truth is obvious but you're trying to change the words of the bible to suit your point.

if I'm not wrong, you said Christianity started from the time of Paul and that's why I quoted you at the first place, siting where Jesus sent His disciples in pairs to go and preach and also His words to Peter as facts to let you know Christianity existed before then

Pls cld u tell me exactly wr I said Christianity started with Paul? huh

. When d president is a Nepa bill-for-certifcate holder, I'm not surprised that one of the citizens is displaying a similar behavioural pattern (ADULLor) behaviour undecided

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 10:15pm On Aug 08, 2018

BabaIbo:
Alright

U don c am now? I had to copy u

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 10:13pm On Aug 08, 2018

BabaIbo:
What are you insinuating?

You typed or copied all these without giving a conclusion to drive home your point.

Remember Jesus asked His disciples who do they say I am?
it was only one of them that got the answer, do you think that doesn't have any meaning. read Jesus response to Peter's answer in Mathew 16 vs 17, from that reading you should be able to see that Peter was chosen.
In every gathering there must be a leader and it's expected of the leader to know what his duty will be, and since Peter knew/know who Jesus Christ is from his answer to Jesus Christ's question, that's what led to Mathew 16 vs 18.

What other primacy do you need, from Jesus words to Peter in the presence of others, it's clear.
Read Mathew 16 vs 19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Telling Peter that he will build His church on him doesn't mean that He will carry cement and sand and start building on him, making you a leader is same thing as building something on you, don't forget Peter is the first pope of Catholic church.
Do you really know what that means?
Is there any other discipline that was got that key or that words of assurance?

Peter being an Israelite has nothing to do with the answer he gave because he was not the only Jewish(Israelite) man among the 12 disciples.

U also forgot to refute the oda scriptures. Eya.

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 10:00pm On Aug 08, 2018

BabaIbo:
What are you insinuating?

You typed or copied all these without giving a conclusion to drive home your point.

Remember Jesus asked His disciples who do they say I am?
it was only one of them that got the answer, do you think that doesn't have any meaning. read Jesus response to Peter's answer in Mathew 16 vs 17, from that reading you should be able to see that Peter was chosen.
In every gathering there must be a leader and it's expected of the leader to know what his duty will be, and since Peter knew/know who Jesus Christ is from his answer to Jesus Christ's question, that's what led to Mathew 16 vs 18.

What other primacy do you need, from Jesus words to Peter in the presence of others, it's clear.
Read Mathew 16 vs 19
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Telling Peter that he will build His church on him doesn't mean that He will carry cement and sand and start building on him, making you a leader is same thing as building something on you, don't forget Peter is the first pope of Catholic church.
Do you really know what that means?
Is there any other discipline that was got that key or that words of assurance?

Peter being an Israelite has nothing to do with the answer he gave because he was not the only Jewish(Israelite) man among the 12 disciples.

Heck no! I arrived at a point it's in the second quote. I mistakenly pressed "submit" before I realised it.

Christianity Etc › Re: Glory Dome: Dunamis 100,000 Seater Church Auditorium Gallops Towards Completion by DavidEsq(m): 9:49pm On Aug 08, 2018

SmellingAnus:
Daniel 5:29
Then Belshazzar gave the command, and they clothed Daniel in purple, placed a gold chain around his neck, and proclaimed him the third highest ruler in the kingdom.,

GENESIS 41 : 38 So Pharaoh asked his officials, “Can we find anyone else like this man so obviously filled with the spirit of God?” 39 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, “Since God has revealed the meaning of the dreams to you, clearly no one else is as intelligent or wise as you are. 40 You will be in charge of my court, and all my people will take orders from you. Only I, sitting on my throne, will have a rank higher than yours.”

41 Pharaoh said to Joseph, “I hereby put you in charge of the entire land of Egypt.” 42 Then Pharaoh removed his signet ring from his hand and placed it on Joseph’s finger. He dressed him in fine linen clothing and hung a gold chain around his neck. 43 Then he had Joseph ride in the chariot reserved for his second-in-command. And wherever Joseph went, the command was shouted, “Kneel down!” So Pharaoh put Joseph in charge of all Egypt. 44 And Pharaoh said to him, “I am Pharaoh, but no one will lift a hand or foot in the entire land of Egypt without your approval.”

IF THE ABOVE DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO YOU I AM AFRAID THERE IS NOTHING MORE THAT I WILL SAY THAT WILL CHANGE YOUR FIXED MIND

What was Daniel's position in the kingdom? Was it a position that had the responsibility of making decisions for ruling the kingdom of babylon? The bible identifies Daniel as the head of wise men in babylon and in all his functions, he was never part of the decisions in the rulership of babylon. In fact, it would have been in contrast to everything in God's arrangement if Daniel had taken part in making rulership decisions for a country that was responsible for the enslavement of the Jews. If u say he was a ruler, why didn't he put a stop to the making of the law that forbade praying to anyone besides the king, Darius? In fact, that law was made without his knowledge. Daniel 6:6,7.
As for Joseph, did u say he was a ruler in Egypt? Heck no! He simply advised the king on economic matters and dealt with trade issues when the farming came up in Egypt. See Genesis 41:47 - 49, 55-57. None of these situations ever show Daniel or Joseph making rulership decisions similar to the nature of decisions and positions u expect today's Christians to make. The book of Proverbs 22:29 states that skillful men will stand before kings and not common men. In Daniel 5:12, the wife to Belshazzar identified Daniel as one who understood ambiguous sayings. In fact, reading from verse 10, the statement of the queen suggests that as at that time, Daniel was no longer in the position he occupied under Nebuchadnezer.
In Genesis 41:9-13 indicates how Joseph was described to pharaoh as a man who could interpret dreams. If Joseph was a ruler, wld he not have been required to also worship the gods of Egypt?
If these men were governmental rulers as u put it, how come neither Jesus nor his apostles took part in the government of their time? In John 18:36, Jesus clearly said "my Kingdom is no part of dis world". In John 12:31, Jesus referred to the devil as the ruler of dis world. If ur argument is valid, would that not mean that Christians would be co-rulers of this world, alongside the devil? Lastly, John 6:15 shows Jesus avoiding being made a king. In fact, the scriptures show that Jesus withdrew from the people to avoid that situation.

Christianity Etc › Re: Glory Dome: Dunamis 100,000 Seater Church Auditorium Gallops Towards Completion by DavidEsq(m): 5:56pm On Aug 08, 2018

SmellingAnus:
We even need more Christians in politics if not we may all end up as slaves or oppressed by the other politicians... Christians need to be more involved in politics if not they will make laws that will be anti-Christians in nature...

In view of the above scriptures, I earlier cited, which opposes Christian participation in politics, since u still feel the bible supports Christians participating in politics, could u help me with a few scriptures that support ur views? Not stories oh! Scriptures! I mean scriptures!

Politics › Re: Full Speech Of Saraki’s World Press Conference On NASS Invasion By DSS by DavidEsq(m): 3:49pm On Aug 08, 2018

Juliusmalema:
Ok.....Have a nice day....

Imagine calling a senior colleague ur boy.

Goan use ur seniority to collect money from the bank jor and stop using it to rant upandan here angry

Celebrities › Re: Kechi Okwuchi Undergoes Another Surgery by DavidEsq(m): 3:45pm On Aug 08, 2018

FortifiedCity:

To think that this lady looked so astonishing before now.

Life is mysterious and demands humility from every human.

Kechi, your soul is still beautiful Okay. FortifiedCity loves you. Most importantly God Loves you. I wouldn't mind getting you pregnant with nothing attached. This I will do just to preserve your outer beauty through your offsprings.

@ the bolden: stop bullsh1ting urself jare. Where is the mystery in falling victim to the consequences of a decrepit government? simple answer: the consequences are avoidable. So wats mysterious about an avoidable event. Nigerians and their crap brains

Christianity Etc › Re: Glory Dome: Dunamis 100,000 Seater Church Auditorium Gallops Towards Completion by DavidEsq(m): 3:25pm On Aug 08, 2018

SmellingAnus:
at least the Osinbajo did well in bringing to order the ugly incidence that happened at the National Assembly... just imagine if it were one of those politicians that don't care a bit about the rule of law

So u agree with the above scriptures. Since u agree, then we can also agree that, between Christianity and Politics, there is no middle ground. Either u are Christian with no connection with politics or not. This is found at James 4:4 which says "adulteresses, do u not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore, whoever wants to be a friend of the world, is making himself an enemy of God.

Christianity Etc › Re: Glory Dome: Dunamis 100,000 Seater Church Auditorium Gallops Towards Completion by DavidEsq(m): 11:23am On Aug 08, 2018

HigherEd:
If the quality of people governing our churches were able to govern our nation then Nigeria might just be glorious.

Enenche: Medical doctor became pastor
Adeboye: First class Mathematician abandoned academia for the clergy
Oyedepo: Architect turn pastor
Olukoya: First class scientist turn pastor
Faith Oyedepo: First class graduate turn pastor
Kumuyi: First class graduate turn pastor
And the list goes on...

Yet you wonder why the Churches are growing in leaps and bound yet the nation is struggling. It seems the best of the best of university graduates are manning the churches while those with dubious qualifications are manning the govt, yet some thoughtless, senseless and directionless people would attack pastors for doing what pastors are meant to do - grow the church! They aren't meant to grow your economy or your education sector but the mandate of the church(whatever that means to them)

When they build universities they build the best!
Majority of them don't take loans despite having a less rigid source of income yet they complete projects in record time.
Most of their 'cities' are electrified 24/7. Many of them are now building huge sustainable cities for their members.

Show me anyone in your presidency with the Adminstrative prowress of Oyedepo, or anyone in your National assembly with the Integrity of Kumuyi.

But no keep blaming churches for your troubles! Let's see where that would take you all eventually.

Congratulations to Dunamis!

Lalasticlala here is the source
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1430413790435821&id=444807728996437

U seem to forgotten that VP Osinbajo (however it's spelt) is at the helm of national affairs but ha now being labelled Condolence Minister. Why is that so? The book of 1 John 5:19 and Luke 4:5,6 and Daniel 2:44 explain why governments of this world can never fulfil our aspirations, however hard they try.

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 10:59am On Aug 08, 2018

lifedynamics:
This is a true Christian here... Quoting only the New Testament... And only references and not laws in the Old Testament...
I respect you

The Old testament is also useful and necessary in providing instructions for us. Romans 15:4 says "For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope".
2 Timothy 3:16 says "All Scripture is inspired of God+ and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness". For wat purpose it so? Verse 17 explains that: "so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work".
Furthermore, Jude 7-9 makes reference to the destruction of Sodom and gomorrah as an explanation of wat is generally misunderstood nowadays, as hell fire.

Christianity Etc › Re: Is Apostle Peter The First Pope? by DavidEsq(op): 7:47am On Aug 08, 2018

eezeribe:
But apostle Peter was never recorded in the Bible praying to Mary or angels or his fellow apostles, how could he then be the first Pope

I love that perspective bro grin

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 7:38am On Aug 08, 2018

BabaIbo:
Alright

The 1870 Vatican Council’s decree was based primarily on its interpretation of Matthew 16:16-19 and John 21:15-17. The conversations between Jesus and Peter that we read in these passages as well as other Bible accounts show that the apostle Peter had an important role in the history of early Christianity. In fact, the first time they met, Jesus predicted that Peter would display rocklike qualities in his life. (John 1:42) But did Christ give Peter primacy?

At Matthew 16:17, 18, we find Jesus’ words to Peter: “I say to you, you are Peter [whose name means “A Piece of Rock”], and upon this rock I will build my church.”* Was Jesus saying that his “church,” or congregation, would be built upon Peter, a man? Was Peter to be the head of all other followers of Jesus? How did the other apostles present at that conversation understand Jesus’ words? The Gospels reveal that later, on a number of occasions, they argued about who was the greatest among them. (Matthew 20:20-27; Mark 9:33-35; Luke 22:24-26) If Jesus had already given Peter primacy, or superiority, could there have been any question as to who was the greatest among the apostles?

How did Peter himself understand Jesus’ words? Growing up an Israelite, Peter would have been familiar with various Hebrew prophecies speaking of a “stone” or a “cornerstone.” (Isaiah 8:13, 14; 28:16; Zechariah 3:9) When he quoted one of them in a letter to his fellow believers, Peter explained that the prophesied “cornerstone” was the Lord Jesus Christ, the Messiah. Peter used the Greek term pe’tra (the same word found in Jesus’ statement at Matthew 16:18) for Christ alone.—1 Peter 2:4-8.
Cc: Anigreat.

Christianity Etc › Is Apostle Peter The First Pope? by DavidEsq(op): 7:30am On Aug 08, 2018*

“If, then, anyone shall say . . . that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of Blessed Peter in this primacy; let him be anathema [that is, be declared a heretic].”—THE FIRST VATICAN COUNCIL, JULY 18, 1870.

The 1870 Vatican Council’s decree was based primarily on its interpretation of Matthew 16:16-19 and John 21:15-17. The conversations between Jesus and Peter that we read in these passages as well as other Bible accounts show that the apostle Peter had an important role in the history of early Christianity. In fact, the first time they met, Jesus predicted that Peter would display rocklike qualities in his life. (John 1:42) But did Christ give Peter primacy?

At Matthew 16:17, 18, we find Jesus’ words to Peter: “I say to you, you are Peter [whose name means “A Piece of Rock”], and upon this rock I will build my church.”* Was Jesus saying that his “church,” or congregation, would be built upon Peter, a man? Was Peter to be the head of all other followers of Jesus? How did the other apostles present at that conversation understand Jesus’ words? The Gospels reveal that later, on a number of occasions, they argued about who was the greatest among them. (Matthew 20:20-27; Mark 9:33-35; Luke 22:24-26) If Jesus had already given Peter primacy, or superiority, could there have been any question as to who was the greatest among the apostles?

How did Peter himself understand Jesus’ words? Growing up an Israelite, Peter would have been familiar with various Hebrew prophecies speaking of a “stone” or a “cornerstone.” (Isaiah 8:13, 14; 28:16; Zechariah 3:9) When he quoted one of them in a letter to his fellow believers, Peter explained that the prophesied “cornerstone” was the Lord Jesus Christ, the Messiah. Peter used the Greek term pe’tra (the same word found in Jesus’ statement at Matthew 16:18) for Christ alone.—1 Peter 2:4-8.

The apostle Paul was another faithful follower of Jesus. Did Paul believe that Jesus had given Peter primacy? Acknowledging Peter’s position in the early Christian congregation, Paul wrote that Peter was among those “reputed to be pillars.” For Paul, there was more than just one ‘pillar.’ (Galatians 2:9) Moreover, if Peter had been appointed by Jesus as the head of the congregation, how could he simply be reputed, that is to say, supposed or thought by his fellow believers, to be a pillar?

When writing regarding certain inconsistencies in the way Peter treated people, Paul respectfully but frankly stated: “I opposed him to his face because he clearly was wrong.” (Galatians 2:11-14) Paul did not think that Christ had built his church, or congregation, upon Peter or any other imperfect man. On the contrary, he believed that the congregation was built on Jesus Christ as the foundation. For Paul, “the rock was the Christ.”—1 Corinthians 3:9-11; 10:4.

So how are we to understand the words: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church”? To understand an excerpt correctly, we need to read its context. What were Jesus and Peter speaking about? Jesus had just asked his disciples: “Who do you say that I am?” Without hesitation, Peter answered: “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” With that, Jesus commended Peter and then added that he would build his “church,” or congregation, on an even more solid “rock,” the one in whom Peter had just expressed faith—Jesus himself.—Matthew 16:15-18.

How are we to understand Jesus’ words: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church”?
Consistent with this, many of the “Church Fathers” wrote that the rock of Matthew 16:18 is Christ. For example, Augustine in the fifth century wrote: “The Lord said: ‘On this rock-mass I will build my Church,’ because Peter had told him: ‘You are the Christ the Son of the living God.’ It is therefore on this rock-mass, that you confessed, that I will build my Church.” Augustine repeatedly stated that “the Rock (Petra) was Christ.”

Augustine and others would be considered heretics if judged according to current Catholic doctrine. In fact, according to Swiss theologian Ulrich Luz, the consensus of opinion on this subject among Bible scholars today would have been condemned by the 1870 Vatican Council as heresy.

WAS THE POPE PETER’S SUCCESSOR?

The title “pope” was unknown to the apostle Peter. In fact, until the ninth century, many non-Roman bishops applied the title to themselves. Even so, the term was rarely applied as an official title until the late 11th century. Moreover, no early Christian thought that a primacy supposedly given to Peter had been transmitted to any successors. Hence, German scholar Martin Hengel concluded that there is “no demonstrable historical and theological way to arrive at what later became papal ‘primacy.’”

In conclusion: Was Peter the first pope? Did he have any successors? Is the Catholic dogma of papal primacy Scripturally valid? The only correct answer to each question is a simple no. Nevertheless, the fact remains that Jesus unquestionably did build his church, his true congregation, upon himself. (Ephesians 2:20) For each one of us, then, the important question is, Have I found that true congregation?
Cc: BabaIbo, Anigreat, 5thElement

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 7:19am On Aug 08, 2018*

BabaIbo:
Alright

The 1870 Vatican Council’s decree (which declared anyone a heretic, who did not believe Peter was the 1st Pope and the rock upon which the church was founded) was based primarily on its interpretation of Matthew 16:16-19 and John 21:15-17. The conversations between Jesus and Peter that we read in these passages as well as other Bible accounts show that the apostle Peter had an important role in the history of early Christianity. In fact, the first time they met, Jesus predicted that Peter would display rocklike qualities in his life. (John 1:42) But did Christ give Peter primacy?

At Matthew 16:17, 18, we find Jesus’ words to Peter: “I say to you, you are Peter [whose name means “A Piece of Rock”], and upon this rock I will build my church.”* Was Jesus saying that his “church,” or congregation, would be built upon Peter, a man? Was Peter to be the head of all other followers of Jesus? How did the other apostles present at that conversation understand Jesus’ words? The Gospels reveal that later, on a number of occasions, they argued about who was the greatest among them. (Matthew 20:20-27; Mark 9:33-35; Luke 22:24-26) If Jesus had already given Peter primacy, or superiority, could there have been any question as to who was the greatest among the apostles?

How did Peter himself understand Jesus’ words? Growing up an Israelite, Peter would have been familiar with various Hebrew prophecies speaking of a “stone” or a “cornerstone.” (Isaiah 8:13, 14; 28:16; Zechariah 3:9) When he quoted one of them in a letter to his fellow believers, Peter explained that the prophesied “cornerstone” was the Lord Jesus Christ, the Messiah. Peter used the Greek term pe’tra (the same word found in Jesus’ statement at Matthew 16:18) for Christ alone.—1 Peter 2:4-8.

The apostle Paul was another faithful follower of Jesus. Did Paul believe that Jesus had given Peter primacy? Acknowledging Peter’s position in the early Christian congregation, Paul wrote that Peter was among those “reputed to be pillars.” For Paul, there was more than just one ‘pillar.’ (Galatians 2:9) Moreover, if Peter had been appointed by Jesus as the head of the congregation, how could he simply be reputed, that is to say, supposed or thought by his fellow believers, to be a pillar?

When writing regarding certain inconsistencies in the way Peter treated people, Paul respectfully but frankly stated: “I opposed him to his face because he clearly was wrong.” (Galatians 2:11-14) Paul did not think that Christ had built his church, or congregation, upon Peter or any other imperfect man. On the contrary, he believed that the congregation was built on Jesus Christ as the foundation. For Paul, “the rock was the Christ.”—1 Corinthians 3:9-11; 10:4.

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 7:12am On Aug 07, 2018

brightlinse:

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 7:08am On Aug 07, 2018

BabaIbo:
Stop changing God's word, remember it's a sin and you will he hold accountable for it. Read Mathew 16 vs 18 and tell me if your daddy G.O is the one Jesus Christ gave His authority, Tell me who's the first pope of Catholic church, Tell me who found Catholic. I won't say much, all I have to tell you is that, everyone will answer his own question when the time comes, so if you like say what you don't know about catholic, my brother or sister the church is thriving just like Jesus Christ told Peter

Lemme baf fes. I just returned from jogging cheesy

. Then I wld read that scripture u cited. I appreciate your interest in spiro tinz grin

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 7:05am On Aug 07, 2018

Octaves:
the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth not your pastor's or personal interpretation and blinkered knowledge of the Bible. what Church is that pillar and foundation? the Catholic Church of course. yes Jesus formed the Church and made Peter the head and gave him the keys to the kingdom of heaven. and declared that the gates of hell would never prevail against his church and that he would be with him till the end of the world. That church is the Catholic church of today. every other church broke out from this church and has formed their own doctrines which are usually incongruous with each other. this is an undisputable fact. if you are tempted to argue with the facts. then you are not ready to know the truth.

I need to know the scripture u are referring to, wr peter was purportedly made the head of the church by Jesus. Alas! U have referred to none. Just stories. I know u didn't read 2 Timothy 2:4.

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 8:40pm On Aug 06, 2018

patrickcollins:
You are seeing other parts of the scriptures, are u keeping them, ur a hypocrite to ask such question.

Wat a pity. How does dis answer his questions? Babylon the great will soon fall

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 8:38pm On Aug 06, 2018

Octaves:
So its now about worshipping, no longer about making the images. may I inform you that Catholics don't worship images but the true God. we venerate the images by virtue of whom they represent. they are sacramentals. they help point our focus on God when we pray.

Can u point it out in the scriptures? Pls read 2 Timothy 3:16.

Celebrities › Re: John Dumelo Touching Statue Of Jesus In Montreal Catholic Church by DavidEsq(m): 8:34pm On Aug 06, 2018

Octaves:
your bible citation is non sequitur (if that's the correct spelling) are you trying to dispute the fact that the Catholic Church originates from the apostles and founded by Christ himself unlike other churches?

The bible citation simply says that rather than follow the truth, people like u listen to stories. As for the part of how Christ formed the congregation, pls tell us how in forming the congregation, he endorsed bowing to images and praying to his mother? because u relied on the founding of the congregation by Christ as the evidence that Christ formed the Catholic Church.

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