₦airaland Forum

TATIME:
[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font] Please Sir try to cover your face! Google has unraveled your blackmailing.

Here is another section of the letter your organization sent to the Nazi Government in declaration of support for Hitler's antagonism the the Jews, The US and Britain.

TATIME:
[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font] Please Sir try to cover your face! Google has unraveled your blackmailing.

Please try and open your eyes. The same Google has exposed your denial.

Wey bonanza gang dem? Na as election dey near na so prices dey tear race.

TATIME:
You're not the first and you can't be the last person that's fighting against the TRUTH!
When Jesus started Christianity, He made us understand that deceitful workers always dwell on bad reports that's based on rumours about good people, but honest hearted individuals are Jesus' friends so they'll search for the TRUTH, know it and the TRUTH will set them free from rumours and blackmailers.
Jehovah's Witnesses are performing EXCELLENTLY in virtuous works globally today so my friend go and learn from Jesus' statement, He said "a GOOD tree will NEVER produce routine FRUITS and a BAD tree will NEVER produce good FRUITS" Matthew 7:16-19
So it's not how far but how well,
* Jesus was reported by the first century religious title holders as a CULTIST. Matthew 10:25,12:24-27
* They tried to erase His activities from people's minds.Acts 5:28
* They raised a lot of rumours and bad reports about Jesus and His followers. Matthew 26:59-62
* They kept raising touts against Christians. Acts 17:5-9
So my friend all your agitations is FUTILE because the OP has spoken his own mind and it's left to sincere persons to investigate EACH PERSON for himself/herself NOT you or any other blackmailers can stop people from IDENTIFYING true Christianity! Matthew 7:24-27 If God's holy spirit has moved someone to utter statements that can help people to reason, you're the tiniest thing to come out and block their minds! Isaiah 54:17

Jesus was exactly referring to your organization when He warned that false prophets would rise in later days to deceive the elect.
An organization whose doctrines keep changing can't call itself the custodian of truth.
Your Watchtower Society declared loyalty to Adolf Hitler during the persecution of Jews in Germany. The records are published in your own very magazine editions that date back to that time. You only began to hide those editions after your doctrine had changed to semi-pacifist one.
You also initially declared in your Watchtower publication that your founder was to be worshipped as God by members of your organization. The manuscripts are available.

Despite Jesus clearly said no one knows the day of His return, you have predicted several years in which the world would end but all the predictions failed and you began to adjust those dates again. This is common knowledge and not a lie against you by anyone. In your own magazines you predicted an end of the world against 1914. When it failed you shifted the goalpost to 1975 in the next editions. When that failed again, you shifted it to 2000. But this is already 2019. So much for God's organization. Bunch of Antichrists!

Janosky:
U can not read the OP's mind, neither can u impose your bigotry on him.

If ,in your bigoted opinion JWs "always relish commendations from the world" is your problem, that's a red flag....

Of a truth u have serious self esteem issues.
Bully like u dey vex say person dey praise him fellow man wey u hate.
Hhmmm

My exposure of the heresies in your doctrines is hitting you hard hence your attacks on my person. I am just feeling fulfilled. The most painful thing to JWs is to denounce their doctrines with scrptural evidence. They can't stand it at all. They feel like fish out of water when you challenge their beliefs. Hahahaha....

Janosky:
Deadlytruth your moniker says it all.
"Jehovah's witnesses meet up their expenses by imposing voluntary donations on their members.
They also rely on asking for donations even from outsiders whom they label apostates"
Oturugbeke!!!
What a lying, bigoted clown!

Pharisee dey form Christian , misquoted matt10:3-15 , & rejected Jesus instructions to preach from house to house.
vs11 -14 "As you enter the home , give it your greeting... if anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town"

Is this Pharisee normal?

See liars now denying their own doctrines and practices in real life because the lack of biblical basis of such are being exposed. Don't you people go out in the streets to pester the assumed apostates to donate to your mission in the form of monetary appreciation for your magazines however small the amount they could afford? You think such is a free will donation? I am speaking from experience. Each time I stopped to listen to JWs in the streets in the past, after speaking the next thing is to tell me why I just have to donate to the ministry for the fact that those printing the magazines are spending money to get it done. Why ask me to donate to your magazines when I am yet to even settle down to read it let alone agree with the doctrine being propagated by it? You may deny this to save face here but that doesn't change the truth about what you people are busy doing in the streets. Oturugbeke my nyash!
You exactly are the pharisiac order of today's Christianity! As Jesus said of you people......"Always wanting to appear righteous in the eyes of men, loving to be respected in public hence always putting up a show of outward religiousity to seek the praises of men...."

This is what Matthew 10:3-15 says:

8. Heal the sick, bring the dead back to life, heal those who suffer from dreaded skin diseases, and drive out demons. You have received without paying, so give without being paid.

9. Do not carry any gold, silver, or copper money in your pockets;

10. do not carry a beggar's bag for the trip or an extra shirt or shoes or a walking stick. Workers should be given what they need.

11. When you come to a town or village, go in and look for someone who is willing to welcome you, and stay with him until you leave that place.

12. When you go into a house, say, 'Peace be with you.'

13. If the people in that house welcome you, let your greeting of peace remain; but if they do not welcome you, then take back your greeting.

14. And if some home or town will not welcome you or listen to you, then leave that place and shake the dust off your feet.

The first bolded clearly says that donations must never be accepted from the public during evangelism. But your Pharisiac organization never evangelizes without asking people for donations towards your magazines.
The second bolded shows you people never read the Bible wholly but pick verses and try to explain them in isolation of the rest. Verses 11 and 12 are not telling you to preach from house to house. Rather they are about how you'll find somewhere to be accommodated in the new town before going out to do the evangelism in public places. If verse 11 means house to house preaching as your dubious organization would have us believe, then you would only visit one house in every town since the concluding line of that verse also commands that you remain in that very first house you entered till you leave the town. However, that concluding line only makes sense when looked at from the perspective of accommodation for the evangelist. And that explains why verse 9 commands that they don't take money or clothes along since whoever accommodates them would definitely provide them with food and clothing. Verses 12 and 13 are specific directives on exactly how the evangelist is to find the home willing to accommodate him hence the use of "if they welcome you (i.e. if they allow you put up with them)" rather than if they listen to your message. Get it now?
Jesus himself never went from house to house. He preached from public places where multitudes always gathered around Him.
The gospel according to Luke makes it even clearer. There Jesus specifically asked them not to go from house to house.
Here it is:

3. Go! I am sending you like lambs among wolves.

4. Don't take a purse or a beggar's bag or shoes; don't stop to greet anyone on the road.

5. Whenever you go into a house, first say, 'Peace be with this house.'

6. If someone who is peace-loving lives there, let your greeting of peace remain on that person; if not, take back your greeting of peace.

7. Stay in that same house, eating and drinking whatever they offer you, for workers should be given their pay. Don't move around from one house to another.

8. Whenever you go into a town and are made welcome, eat what is set before you,

9. heal the sick in that town, and say to the people there, 'The Kingdom of God has come near you.'


Ironically you people now go from house to house and you don't heal the sick because according to you the era of miracles is past. But we know such is to cover up the fact that you lack the power of the Holy Spirit.

TATIME:
You're really trying Sir!

I am always ready for you people. I will never allow you have your way here with your organization's false teachings and distortion of Bible verses. My next responses will now dwell on digging up the ugly historical deeds of the Watchtower Society.

Mcy56:
The Chief Priest (CP)
I just dey think say I go do protest treck come your house for Ajegunle if you no show face here ni.

You get mouth sha!

TATIME:
We know your type Sir. You're Mr TalkBack, those who just feel like talking back "never allow Jehovah's Witnesses to win arguments"
For your information, we're NOT to argue with you if you've not seen the qualities that Christ expect people to notice as the identity of Christianity in JWs! 1Timothy 6:4,Philippians 2:14,Titus 3:9,Colossians 2:4
Boasting is one aspects or attribute of TRUE Christianity, but it's like your anger coupled with hatred for JWs won't allow you think before you type.
Christians are not to boast of money,having children, building house or possession of other material things just as your folks will come out in your assemblies only to start telling people "praise the Lord, i possessed this i possessed that" but when it comes to the UNDERSTANDING of God's word WE MUST BOAST before all your so called Pastors who kept asking you to pay them TITHES for their claims as teachers of God's word (Jeremiah 9:24,Matthew 23:23,24)Christians are to keep going about to offer assistance to others in GIVING what we have which is Godly wisdom FREELY. Matthew 10:8
The irony of the matter is you don't understand what you're saying at all,is it wrong to keep doing what Jesus asked Christians to do?(Matthew 10:3-15,28:19,20) Or we should just join you people in doing what we've discovered is wrong? 1Corinthians 10:20
Instead of arguing blindly why not think deeply to know that Christians can boast of Goldy wisdom but NOT to bear religious titles like you people do?
Each member of Jehovah's Witnesses knows his/her office of duty (Ephesians 4:11) yet you can never hear of title bearers in our midst WE ARE ALL BROTHERS! Matthew 23:8
Your Pastors can tell you Jehovah's Witnesses boasts,please tell them we will boast to silence false Christians who are adding titles to their names,YES Sir Jehovah's Witnesses will tell them "you're not Christians!" We'll never accord them that recognition they are commanding with those useless titles! 2Corinthians 11:12-15

See firewood pot calling electric kettle black. Haven't you yourself been talking back all this while? For the first bolded: thank God you now confess in a Freudian slip that JWism is about winning arguments thus not really about living by example. On that, you can get help in 2 Timothy 2:23.

For the second bolded: that is purely illogical. People don't argue with those who already have a positive view of them. If a person already sees good in JW, then why still argue with him? Does that make sense? By this utterance alone you have confessed how much your organization loves stupid arguments that you keep doing it even when it is no longer necessary.
The third bolded is actually a testimonial to the depravity and carnal mindedness of your organization. Even in the secular world, boasting is viewed as evil. All human cultures detest boasting about self in any form. In the Bible Jesus said "If you do exactly what the world does, then how are you better than them?" Isn't it laughable that your organization doesn't see anything wrong with a thing which even the world rightly sees as morally wrong?

For the fourth bolded: Of course you obviously don't know anything about testimony of the Lord's goodness and blessings because your organization doesn't even believe in the possibility of material blessings from God.
Giving testimony of God's goodness is different from chest beating which you people are fond of. Testimony giving is commanded of Christians in the Bible...1 Corinthians 1:31. But chest beating about having knowledge of God's words is forbidden in the scriptures.....................1 Corinthians 3:18-21, 1 Corinthians 4:7-8, 1 Corinthians 3:21.

The scriptures go deeper and more specific in 2: Cor 12 - 19 where it admonishes that followers of Christ should even rather talk about their weakness and failures if they truly desire to become acceptable in God's sight. But since your own desire is to look great in the eyes of sinful and mortal men you do the reverse.
Then 2 Corinthians 12: 5-6 kills it completely by admonishing Christians never to try to, through boasting, get other to have a high opinion of them.
Even in the secular world, whoever tries to boast his way to higher public esteem is usually viewed as very stupid and senseless, and then ends up being looked down upon. Yet a self acclaimed God's organization's doctrine upholds boasting as a way to seeking higher esteem in the eyes of the public. What a satanic and shameless group!


Like I already noted, the verses you do quote above are totally unrelated to the topic. Take Mathew 10:3-15 for example: it talks about Jesus sending out his disciples on evangelism and healing the sick. How does that relate to the issue of the propriety of boasting about the knowledge of God by Christians? Not that your organization still follows the mandates given in that passage though. There Jesus commands his disciples to heal the sick, drive away demons from them and avoid going from house to house. But your organization mandates its members to go from house to house in pure violation of Jesus' own directive, yet you boast of doing God's will. Which god please? Again, you lack the Holy Spirit hence you don't have the power to chase demons out of the sick, but you rationalize this by claimimg that the time for miracles has passed and in defense reference the passage in Thessalonians which says the gifts of miracles, teaching, etc will cease when the perfect day (i.e. eternity) comes but that love will remain.
If your perfect day has already come to make the performance of miracles unnecessary, then why doesn't your teaching and evangelism as stop since they are equally listed among the things that will not last into the perfect day?
And these are the people who claim superior knowledge of the scriptures.

It is evil to boast of knowledge which is accurate. But it is simply demonic to boast of knowledge when you don't even really have it.

The Bible is also against boasting about any acomplishment in the Christian race...as Ephesians 2: 8-9 clearly says as follows:

"For it is by God's grace that you have been saved through faith. It is not the result of your own efforts, but God's gift, so that no one can boast about it."
Therefore, any religious organization whose doctrine permits boasting about it is definitely a false religion. Such are not Christians. For the carnal and worldly minded, the true teachings of the Bible are difficult to live by, hence your decision to create your own translation of the Bible which deliberately distorts these hard teachings to those which suit your carnal and earthly desires.

As for the other parts of your watery self defense: the bearing of titles is not forbidden anywhere in the scriptures. In fact 1 Timothy 3:1-2 even permits brethren to aspire to Leadership position titled "Bishop". So your organization's aversion to it is therefore just in pursuit of its vainglorious quest to outwardly appear different from others just for the sake of deceiving the spiritually gullible.
The 2 Corinthians 11:12-15 you referenced doesn't have anything to do with titles issue. Paul in all his letters to churches in Asia always introduced himself as an Apostle of the Lord. That is a title for you. It is same as Pastor, Bishop, etc and are meant for identity purposes. If it were a form of boasting Paul wouldn't have ever given himself the title 'Apostle'. Only in your carnal minded organization does such translate to self exaltation above others.
And above all, all these appologetics you are doing are likely to become invalid in the nearest future when the body of 8 men in New York update your organization's interpretations of all these verses you currently reference here and there. By that time you will start singing a different tune from the ones you currently sing.

We all saw it here how your 8 New York elders initially told you that nothing was wrong with celeberaton of Christmas, but later declared the same festival evil many years later after a lot of your members had lived and died with the previous belief. Who will be responsible for their souls if they don't make the 'paradise' on account of that belief assuming the new one is actually from God while the old one is of the devil as you want people to believe?

TATIME:
Go in search for a better group that's producing a tenth(10%) of the FRUITS that Jehovah's Witnesses are producing, then you'll have something tangible as a LAW against US. Galatians 5:23b

The Galatians 5:23 you reference above admonishes humility and self control hence is actually meant for your boastful, self glorifying yet carnal minded and sinful organization. It is a worldly attribute to be good in your own eyes. Even Jesus, despite being the perfect embodiment of goodness, said "no man is good" in response to a man who described Him with the adjective 'good'. That is an example of the humility admonished in Gal: 5:23. If your organization were really talking after Jesus, you would realize that His true followers shouldn't therefore ever relish commendations from the world because it is the same world that would later turn around and accused them falsely like it later did to Jesus.

You can however get help from 2 Corinthians 10:18

TATIME:
In FACTS you're not interested so don't expect Jehovah's Witnesses to keep wasting our time and data on lies that is fabricated to keep you in the dark since you prefer lies to the TRUTH.
This month alone Jehovah's Witnesses globally over the release of our deluxe Bible in different languages all is FREE! What you should have asked is "how are Jehovah's Witnesses meeting up with our expenses?" Instead of speculating and been presumptuous.
None of Jehovah's Witnesses will give a bleep to those who prefer darkness to light!

Lies and truth can only be established on the precepts of the Bible. So as long as you can't prove me wrong based on the scriptures, all your attempt to create the impression that I am lying is self delusion

Jehovah's Witnesses, according to Awake magazine, meet up with their expenses by imposing compulsory donation of investments on their members. They also rely on asking for donations from even outsiders whom they label apostates. Ironically they don't join others in prayes because, according to them, they don't yet believe in the same god to whom the prayers will be directed. But when it comes to asking those 'apostates' for donation, they forget that those outsiders don't also yet believe in the same god whose message they want to use the donations to propagate.
Jesus never asked for donations towards his ministry from those who had not accepted his messages. Even though he could read people's minds and know who really was planning to be his convert soon, he didn't still capitalize on that to ask such for donations. He rather spent money on those whom he was evangelizing. Genuine Christians never take from unbelievers under any excuse. They rather give to unbelievers and the society at large. In 2 Corinthians 12:14, Paul said to even the believers in Corinth, "It is you I want, not your money'. Then how much more should true Christians be wary of unbelievers' moneys and donations ? Likewise, the Pentecostals and Orthodox Churches never ask unbelievers or non members for donations towards their mission when they go out to enangelize. They would rather win converts by identifying the needy unbeliever and get their Churches to assist him first before further preaching to him as Christians are asked to do in the book of James.
But your organization does the opposite to this by never rendering help to unbelievers at first it even second encounter, but demands for their donations towards their ministry without even caring to first find out how they are surviving. That definitely can't be of God. Never!

TATIME:
What you're disputing has been rubbed in your face sir and there is nothing as in NOTHING you can do to remove the credits Jehovah's Witnesses have gotten!
The OP is not Terrence Howard but both of them sincerely confessed how impressed they are with what they've seen so far in Jehovah's Witnesses.
The fact that they've not yet joined the organization simply means their conscience is telling them to do something but their nature as humans is saying otherwise! Matthew 19:16-24
Note that it's not riches that's the problem with people but their heart condition to stick to what majority praises. What the OP and Terrence Howard says is not general acceptable, that's why Nicodemus came to say what both the OP and Terrence Howard are saying now AT NIGHT! John 3:1,2
Nicodemus remained a member of those opposing Jesus so when they spoke on how to arrest Jesus, Nicodemus tried to speak in Jesus' defence and they all raised their voices to silence him just as all of you are doing right now. John 7:45-52
My friend, your agitation and hatred won't change what Terrence Howard and the OP have said!

The OP's post is about an erroneous impression he got as a distant observe that your organization's offering is optional. However he has been clarified that compulsion is really more of a JW thing than others. Examples have been given to include your organization's practice of specifically listing bonds, shares, treasury bills, stocks, and other investments as what her members should surrender as offering. An Awake edition was referenced which none of you could deny. Neither the Pentecostals or Orthodox Churches are known to go as far as demanding their members' investments as offering.
Even you yourself admitted here that no elder of your congregation is to avoid paying offering as without giving 'cogent' reasons. That is itself a form of compulsion as it suggests that those elders have persons assigned to monitor them and question them if they are found guilty. What compulsion can be greater than that?
Moreover, the OP specifically mentioned only the Pentecostals in his comparisons.. meaning he doesn't see any compulsion in the Orthodox Churches' manner of offerings. So he indirectly also commends the latter. But they are not here celebrating it because they know it is unchristian.

TATIME:
Pontius Pilate saw the outstanding courage, boldness and stringent principle in Jesus, so after he has ordered Jesus to be whipped mercilessly in order to please Jesus' enemies but seeing that these enemies of TRUTH have rendered their conscience dead, Pontius Pilate said about Jesus with high regard for Jesus' dignified stand "Look the Man!" John 19:5
So let him SHAMELESSLY deny his own username by turning himself to "TrulyDead"
The Pharisees after Pilate told them "I've found no fault in him" said aloud "we have a law" which of course supposed to mean God's law, so to them, they're condemning Jesus ACCORDING to God's word!
Let him keep arguing bitterly against what he knew is good simply because of the tradition of the churches that he himself can't defend under scrutiny! John 19:6-10

If Pontius Pilate flogged Jesus before trying him and then finding no fault in him, then that should tell you he was prejudiced hence his later commendation of Jesus was pure hypocrisy hence Jesus didn't celebrate it. If he was really sincere about his declaration that he found no fault in Jesus, then honesty demanded that he should have first apologized to Jesus for flogging Him innocently, and then proceed to announce Jesus' innocence to to the Jews, and then set Him free regardless of the sentiments of the Jews. After all he had all the state power to effect Jesus' release and arrest and severely deal with any Jew who resisted him. But he tendered no single appology, ended up still delivering the innocent Jesus up for crucifixion, yet you take his declaration seriously. You and that your religious organization must be very naive.
Does that not contrast with you people's celeberaton of commendations emanating from the same world system you accuse of having persecuted you innocently over the years?
The scriptures you reference are always out of context so I don't even bother to look them up again.

My analysis are hitting you in the right places and exposing your inconsistencies and hypocritic doctrines hence your personal attacks on my moniker. I am happy about that. You can say all you like against my person, but that won't stop me from replying you and exposing your ever changing doctrines controlled and decided by a group of 8 men in New York acting as God.

Janosky:
@Deadlytruth,
"I don't like" does not mean "hate", U really know say no be the same thing.
Why eee dey pain u say the OP see something wey "impressed" him about JW?

Stop deceiving yourself. "I don't like" simply is the negation of "I like" which is same as "I hate".
I am not pained that the OP saw anything that impressed him about you.
I understand you people are always looking for the approval of men.
People do express being impressed with moslems and the simplicity of their modes of worship which attracts converts to it hence it is the fastest growing religion in the world. But that doesn't automatically translate to it being the Organization of God. And the moslems themselves don't even salivate over such commendation.
It actually smacks of inferiority complex to always relish commendations from the world. Christ never did it. None of the Apostles did so.

Janosky:
Of a truth, the word of God is infallible but imperfect man is fallible.

JWs did not "update" or review the scriptures, every serious Bible student knows that he can read one particular verse a thousand times, yet he receives fresh insight & understanding as if he just read that verse for the first time.
Jehovah is a God of justice ,it's one of His cardinal quality & justice is a principle spelt out in the Bible (Job34:11,12 . Gal 6:7. Luk18:7,8.)
The more u pray & study God's word, (God's word is our work tools, as workmen we must keep improving & refining our skills & our steps to align with Jehovah's standard, (2Tim 2:15) to do that is humility. )
. Peter denied Jesus &made his mistakes, did Jesus throw him out?
Yet Jesus kept teaching his disciples continuously to refine them.
They were humble & improved, so do JWs as long as no scriptural principle is violated.


If u find fault with that,it's your problem.
Your prejudice no go let u see road well well..

It is simple. Paul warned them in the Corinthian Church that they must never accept any new or updated teaching different from the one he taught them. He added that even if he himself was the one who later came back to them to give them a different teaching, they should not accept it. That is how the scriptures are. Any religious organization that keeps changing doctrines in the name of improvement is definitely being guided by men's minds and not the Holy Spirit the true interpreter promised by Jesus.
Initially your organization published in her 1902 Awake edition that despite being a festival rooted in paganism, her members were free to celebrate Christmas as long as the intention behind the celebration had become different. But in later editions, the tune changed to "Don't celebrate Christmas because it has paganistic origins".
The Holy Spirit can't lead you to believe that a thing is acceptable in the sight of God today, and then on a later day it tells you that due to improvement it has realized that what it taught you initially was not of God. That definitely is not the Holy Spirit. He is not an author of confusion and inconsistency in the name of improvement. God's words are perfect so they need no improvement.
If however you agree that your doctrines change due to your own human improvement in understanding, that is a different thing. And it means you don't really have any doctrine since what you currently hammer on as your belief upon which you condemn others may soon change possibly to the ones of the very others you condemn.

Mpeace:
But just like the last year, be sure to see some stocks make good upwards movement, especially those with good fundamentals and selling at huge discount. Be sure to also see some stocks with excellent full year and quarterly results, and stocks with positive news make good price appreciations.

I share your sentiments. Those waiting for a repeat of the generally bullish trend of this time last year are likely having sweet dreams. The bonanza gang's call is still based on the same assumption that a general bull is on its way.
I don't see it like that. Indications are more that the bull will pick on individual stocks at different times.....a trend which is even more profitable if one can successfully decode the turn by turn order in which the bulls will visit the individual stocks.
Diamond Bank's bonanza came and it's bull followed. Nem insurance's Bonanza was here two weeks ago and now it's bull is on course. That is likely going to be the pattern this year....The morning, they say, shows the day.

TATIME:
ALL THESE ARE RUBBISH!
Hmmmmmmmmmmm don't allow this hatred to render you spiritually blind my friend!
Throughout the earth today,Jehovah's Witnesses are known for the same
ATTITUDES
BEHAVIORS
CONDUCTS and
RESPONSES to questions about our beliefs is identical irrespective of the parts of the world we reside in!
The OP only noticed one good thing about the way we make offerings and that's exactly the same thing you'll see in any of our kingdom hall including the ones you'll find in your villages!
What i am telling you is "don't expect everyone attending our meetings to be perfect" but you'll notice that no matter how degraded such person's lifestyle, even those in his/her neighborhood will say "he/she is not truthfully their REAL member".
Because Terrence Howard(a renown American actor) only noticed JWs in his own neighborhood and after making a comparison with those he has found elsewhere he could publicly say....

In a previous post you already said as follows:

"The TRUTH is that you can only notice people that's working out those qualities as a GROUP not as a PERSON!"

Now you changed tune to:

"Throughout the earth today,Jehovah's Witnesses (i.e the individual persons) are known for the same
ATTITUDES
BEHAVIORS
CONDUCTS and
RESPONSES to questions about our beliefs is identical irrespective of the parts of the world we reside in!"

So which do we choose between these two conflicting claims coming from one and the same person?
However, just on this thread alone we have seen a JW who argued that his organization is pacifist in orientation and doctrine contrary to the organization's own categorical statement in an edition of her own magazine that her members are permitted to take up arms in defense of their beliefs. He has abandoned this thread completely ever after he was shown that publication. There is yet another member of yours above who has just said it is not a matter of do's and don'ts whereas you have been harping on a set of do's and don'ts by which your members are supposedly identified with. So how do we reconcile this variation between the two of you here with the claim you just made?

There is no big deal about the universality of the pattern by which make offerings. Other religious groups' manners of offering are even more identical in universality. What matters therefore is not whether the members of a group stick religiously to a style all over the world but whether that style or belief in it is based on the scriptures... and that is what this thread has trashed thoroughly.

Some other prominent figures too have said of other religious groups what Torrence Horward said of you.
If everyone lived like Mahatma Ghandi and his followers, the world would just be perfectly perfect. If everyone lived like Mother Theresa, the world would be a utopia. And so many others.
If you consider the lifestyle of Eskimos and their culture you can also end up concluding that the world would be free of all famine, pestilence and what have you, if everyone else acted like them. These groups of persons and their followers have shown far better examples of ideal living than any body of organized religion anyone can think of. So it is not about being a member of an organization in the formal sense. Horward Torrence was speaking from a very limited sample space restricted to the US. He never travelled to India, Greenland, etc to get a wider first hand experience.

Let us look at Torrence's words more deeply:
If he is right that the world would be a paradise provided everyone acted and lived according to your doctrine irrespective of their religious beliefs or the religious groups they belong to, then that would seem to suggest that making the world a better place is not about formally belonging to a so-called God's organization but about just living by the dictates of the Bible which that organization claims to derive her beliefs from. Afterall he himself never joined your organization after saying so. Doesn'tell you then that your doctrine that says that "compulsory membership of your organization is the only qualification to paradise" is pure bunkum therefore?

yom2:
which significant foreign investor still one bail out again? I thought we all agreed that naira was under pressure in d last quarter of last year because they were exiting.

Na so me sef wonder when I see that part o.

babaijesha:
Bros.... Na Naija we dey... Anything is possible .... Just one bad news will bring it down..

You just said my mind. That is why I follow SA more than all these FA and TA.

Janosky:
U are an educated ,career person, I suppose, in a specific profession.

How come u go for seminars, & conferences hosted by your professional body?

If a child alleged that u abused him, and U met the body of elders, where some one (1 witness) confirmed U spent 2 hours alone with that child but u denied having any sexual contact with that child.
Then , the child's parents had their child undergo medical tests that confirmed that something sinister took place with firm evidence to back up such claims.
Thereafter, being a suspect, u are called in for interrogation by the Police & charged to court, after thorough investigation.
In spite of your denial in court of law, the medical/forensic evidence proves that u committed the crime (that's 2nd witness against u) & therefore convicted of the crime, has justice been served?

What law ( s) in the bible was broken in order to fulfill the course of justice?

Mr prejudiced fellow, God's word goes beyond do's & don'ts, many scriptural principles are very relevant for our present day.
Your prejudice & bigotry dey shine pass Sonny king.....

Seminars and conferences are held by professional bodies to review and update human fallible knowledge towards aligning it with most recent findings about reality. But there is no need for the review and updating of the scriptures since they are authoured by an infallible and omniscient God. In fact God's words dictate reality.
For example, far before Ferdinand Magellan undertook the circumnavigation voyage, the scriptures had described the earth as geoid in shape. So the scriptures rule reality hence it is absurd to try upgrading or updating the scriptures to align with the latest human findings which could still be invalidated by more future findings. Therefore any organization that is always reviewing her doctrines to be in concordance with existing secular laws is definitely not being guided by the mind of God the author of the scriptures who say the world and all within it shall pass away but that not a jot of His words shall pass away.
The bolded is what all other Christian groups have been trying to make your organization understand all this while but you refused and continued insisting on the contrary that it is a matter of dos and don'ts. They told you that all scripture is simply and essentially about following one's conscience to loving one's neighbours as one's self rather than laws or ordinances, but you refused and cooked up different rules of dos and don'ts as standards and propagated them in publications for ages. You condemned other groups' simple message of love for one's neighbours as intellectual laziness and aversion to searching the scriptures in pursuit of their apostate leanings. Now, without first acknowledging you were initially wrong, you are trying to turn round and embrace the fact that it is not about dos and don'ts?

TATIME:
Yes they can be TRUTHFULLY applied to us!
Don't worry,Jesus said if this ones refused to voice out the stones will shout! Luke 19:40
Majority of mankind like you can hide the TRUTH in their minds without saying it out but not everyone my friend, NOT EVERYONE IS HARDHEARTED to that degree.
For your information, before Jesus came as the promised Messiah Satan used some Jews to deceive the people, these ones claims to be the Messiah! Act 5:36,37 These self acclaimed Messiah's misled the Jews into wrong expectations, so when Jesus (the real Messiah) arrives the people already have totally wrong view of what the Messiah supposed to do!
Today you can be expecting to see a religion where all the members or few will be PERFECT! Know now that that's impossible, Jesus is the only person who can PERFECTLY exhibit all those qualities mentioned at Galatians 5:22,23 None of all God's prophets could get it 100% not even Paul who wrote it! Romans 7:13-25
So what are we saying?
The TRUTH is that you can only notice people that's working out those qualities as a GROUP not as a PERSON!
Forget about what any religion is teaching their members, because that's just theoretical. What matters most is their ability to exhibit Galatians 5:22,23 AS A GROUP! According to Apostle Paul of blessed memory, you shouldn't think of quoting any laws against such attributes!
Therefore go and meditate on those qualities,examine carefully the GROUP that's working it out amongst them and find out from them what is helping them to meet up, if they claim that it's God's word that's behind it PLEASE! PLEASE!! PLEASE!!! Stop arguing with them because Jesus said "a bad tree cannot bear good fruit" Matthew 7:15-20

All these are pure rubbish.
One of your cardinal doctrines as written in your book titled "Mankind's Search for God" is that a true organization of God should be such that its individual member's attitudes, behaviors, conducts and and responses to questions about their beliefs must be identical irrespective of the parts of the world they reside in....as that would show that they are guided not by human interpretation of the scriptures but by the mind of the omnipresent and omniscient God Almighty.
So go back and expunge this doctrinal declaration form that book first before anyone can take you seriously on this your latest attempt to shift goalpost.

TATIME:
Yes they can be TRUTHFULLY applied to us!
Don't worry,Jesus said if this ones refused to voice out the stones will shout! Luke 19:40
Majority of mankind like you can hide the TRUTH in their minds without saying it out but not everyone my friend, NOT EVERYONE IS HARDHEARTED to that level.

This is how you lie and call it truth. What happened in John 19:40 was that children were praising Jesus as Messiah and the Jews questioned why he allowed them, and he made that response.
Is your organization now Messiahnic to warrant referencing such verse? Was the situation there about offering system which is the case here? Unlike the children whose praise for Jesus was an indication that they found no single fault in him, the OP here clearly stated that he doesn't like your doctrines but that only on offering issue you impress him.... meaning that he doesn't see your organization as genuine even though you appear to get it right on only one out of thousand doctrinal issues.....but you are here comparing the two situations.
If you read between the lines thoroughly you should have even discerned that the OP actually condems your organization in totality than otherwise.
How could a speech made in near total condemnation of you people by an observer be said to be similar to one made by children in total commendation and acceptance of Jesus?
Those children didn't insinuate that though they saw Jesus as imperfect but they accept him as Messiah all the same since he got it right on just one aspect of his teachings and actions.
So what parallel are you trying to draw between the two scenarios?
See how your rabid quest for men's approval drives you into very poor comprehension of the scriptures?
The hatred you accuse me of is actually coming from the very OP you claim is speaking the 'truth' about you. He clearly say '.....I don’t like their doctrines but on this i am impressed."

"don't like" means "hate". The OP hates your doctrine and he makes it clear....meaning that to him all other doctrines of your group are wrong and unacceptable. So if he is speaking the truth as you seem to imply, then his hatred for your doctrine must be founded on the truth hence you have implicitly accepted that your organization is heretic and apostate.

Janosky:
The " Jehovah's witnesses scripturally Based Position on Child Protection" is our working document ,not that almost three decades old watchtower article which U probably copied from a questionable source & quoted out of context.

These days,anti child abuse laws
are being updated by governments & JWs have done the same in order to comply with the law .

U no dey current with facts of this matter, that is why u dey copy & share outdated expired stuff for here

If your position on child abuse are scripturally guided, then how come you keep reviewing and updating them? Do the scriptures change in meaning with time and government laws? So the world governments you so much demonize are essentially the compass that guides the review of your doctrines? Wow! What an interesting Irony!
If a three decade old Watchtower publication doesn't represent your doctrine anymore, then it follows that the current adjustments and reviews you've made to them are still not reliable as they too will become invalid in another three decades from now. How does that really represent God's laws which never change with time?
Isn't it clear to you that you are under the manipulation of 8 men in far away New York?

TATIME:
Your mind is filled with lawlessness, so go and learn the difference between pointing out the mistakes of a whole organization and hanging on the wrongdoing of some in an organization that's not condoling wrongdoing!
Are you saying Jehovah's Witnesses approved such or that some wrongdoers are BEGGING Jehovah's Witnesses to help them do away with wrongdoing?
For your information, Jesus preached against covetousness of the Pharisees (Matthew 23:23-25) while His own Apostles were bitterly complaining against Judas Iscariot (an Apostle)for the same offense. John 12:4-6
But can we now conclude that Jesus is hypocritical?
So go and learn how to distinguish between pointing out the error of a whole group and blackmailing a group for the error of few!

All these apply more to you still. Check your magazines very well and you'll that you alone are guilty of all these.

TATIME:
What the OP typed has already been typed and no amount of criticism or arguments can erase that fact!

Who doesn't know it is men's approval you seek?

The Watchtower 1995 Nov 1 pp.28-9 gave the following advice regarding accusations of child abuse.

"What Can Elders Do?

If the elders are approached by a member of the congregation who is experiencing flashbacks or repressed memories of child abuse, two of them are usually assigned to help. These elders should kindly encourage the afflicted one to focus for the time being on coping with the emotional distress. The names of any remembered abusers should be kept in strict confidence.

The elders primary task is to act as shepherds. (Isaiah 32:1,2; 1Peter 5:2,3) They should be especially careful to clothe [themselves] with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, lowliness of mind, mildness, and long-suffering. (Colossians 3:12) Let them listen in a kindly way and then apply healing words from the Scriptures. (Proverbs 12:18) Some who are afflicted with painful memories have expressed appreciation for elders who make regular visits or even telephone calls to check to see how they are doing. Such contacts need not take a lot of time, but they show that Jehovah's organization cares. When the afflicted one realizes that his Christian brothers truly love him, he may be helped to recover a considerable degree of emotional balance.

What if the sufferer decides that he wants to make an accusation? Then the two elders can advise him that, in line with the principle at Matthew 18:15, he should personally approach the accused about the matter. If the accuser is not emotionally able to do this face-to-face, it can be done by telephone or perhaps by writing a letter. In this way the one accused is given the opportunity to go on record before Jehovah with his answer to the accusation. He may even be able to present evidence that he could not have committed the abuse. Or perhaps the one accused will confess, and a reconciliation may be achieved. What a blessing that would be! If there is a confession, the two elders can handle matters further in accordance with Scriptural principles.

If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way . And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person. The Bible says that there must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken. (2 Corinthians 13:1; 1 Timothy 5:19) Even if more than one person remembers abuse by the same individual, the nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without other supporting evidence. This does not mean that such memories are viewed as false (or that they are viewed as true). But Bible principles must be followed in establishing a matter judicially.

What if the one accused though denying the wrong doing is really guilty? Does he get away with it, as it were? Certainly not! The question of his guilt or innocence can be safely left in Jehovah's hands. The sins of some men are publicly manifest, leading directly to judgment, but as for other men their sins also become manifest later. (1Timothy 5:24; Romans 12:19; 14:12) The book of Proverbs says: The expectation of the righteous ones is a rejoicing, but the very hope of the wicked ones will perish. When a wicked man dies, his hope perishes. (Proverbs 10:28; 11:7) Ultimately, Jehovah God and Christ Jesus render everlasting judgment in justice. 1 Corinthians 4:5."

Janosky:
The Australia Royal Commission is not about JW , but rather about the malaise of child abuse in their society -schools,public &private institutions, Churches & sports clubs were involved.

Child abuse is a very sensitive issue ,in fact JWs have a well documented zero tolerance mode towards such despicable acts.

That your fictional fabrication is very far from reality.
In the 1960's/80's ,the appropriate laws were not in place as at that period to deal with such issues & sexual repression/ stigma were the norm. child abuse/Rape are often under reported everywhere.

If any adult who said he was molested as a child ,now comes out &lays the blame on JWs ,that individual is economizing the truth to win public sympathy while looking out for a large paycheck...

The bolded above runs contrary to your doctrine as stated below:

TATIME:
Jesus said "whoever does the will of my father who is in heaven is my mother and brothers" Matthew 12:46-49
He said we're to forgive and forget, we're to welcome repentant sinners as God will likely do, we're to believe whenever our Christian brother says YES or NO.
Well this is Satan's world and there is injustice everywhere, we only try to HELP sinners who ran to God for salvation in order for them to be saved, none of us is guiltless of crime on earth. So why hanging on the mistakes of others who either might be innocent or repentant of their wrongdoing?
For your information Sir, my daughter,son,brother, sister, mother,father, uncle and aunty are those who are WILLING to OBEY Jesus' commands which includes genuine FORGIVENESS. Whoever feels there shouldn't be TOTAL FORGIVENESS for sinners can go and do whatever pleases them. As far as i'm concerned, it is not easy to FORGIVE but i will do so because God's only begotten son says "i must be willing to let go" Matthew 18:23-35

The bolded actually applies more to you people than anyone else. Can you name any religious sect other than your very selves which takes pleasure in making publications in perpetual criticism of others who don't even care if they exist?

TATIME:
Well that's your opinion NOT the OP's!
You can try to change the color of any object before the coming of an observer,NOT after the observer has confirmed the color and documented it! John 19:19-22

As usual... quoting Bible verses out of context. How is John 19:19-22 relevant here?

ndidigood:
unanogokillpersonhere

The bonanza gang and the bull gang are all at crossroads now.

editorAA:
In an Awake! magazine edition (6/2008), a letter in the From Our Readers section reads:

“Much of what you say [in the February 2007 edition] is true … there are however, two issues in your magazine that makes me uncomfortable. One is how you put the Christian churches down, and the other is the way you seem to lift yourselves up above the rest. It would be wonderful if we all agreed and were of one faith … I don’t consider any one church or denomination better than the other.”

Though this writer was able to detect the anti-Christian militant spirit that permeates Watchtower writings, he doesn’t seem to be informed about the beliefs of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. He thinks JWs and the Christian churches should “agree” and be “of one faith” since JWs are supposedly another “denomination.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses actually believe they alone are worshipping God on earth while all others are part of “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion serving Satan which will be destroyed at Armageddon.

That February edition of Awake! referred to in the above letter was titled “Is Religion Losing its Influence?” Its cover had a picture of a church about to sink in a sea.

In it they state (like in most of their materials), that all churches produce the fruits of “counterfeit Christianity which the Devil planted” but “True Christians [i.e Jehovah’s Witnesses] are separated out from the ‘weeds’ of Christendom. Jehovah’s Witnesses are ‘shinning as brightly as the sun’ helping others to know the true God, Jehovah” (p. 9).

In What Does God Require of Us? they state: “Jesus started one true Christian religion. So today there must be just one body, or group, of true worshipers of Jehovah God” (p. 26)

Witnesses claim they are true Christians because they alone are perfectly united in the same mind and beliefs, unlike the “conflicting religions of Christendom.” One of the Bible verses they quote is 1 Cor. 1:10 “Now I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought” (NWT).

The context of 1 Corinthians was an admonition to the Corinthian Christians who were divided into four factions – Paul, Apollos, Cephas and Christ. Each faction was acting antagonistic to the other three. This can be seen reading 1st Corinthians 1:12-12 and 3:3-7.

Paul emphasized that “But of him are ye in Christ” (1 Cor. 1:30) “ye are Christ’s and Christ is God’s” (3:23), meaning that all believers are to be united in Christ – not in a human teacher or “a one true religion.” It’s important to note that in spite of these divisions, Paul the Apostle still believed the Corinthians were true Christians.

1 Corinthians 1:2-3 “to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all those everywhere who are calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours: May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.”

A lack of unity didn’t mean that the Corinthian Christians were “bags of weeds” to be destroyed by God. Rather, such divisions implied they were “babes in Christ” and “carnal” (1 Cor. 3:1, 3)

The Watchtower argument that Christian churches are of the Devil because they are not perfectly united is out of touch with Biblical teaching. Nowhere in these passages or elsewhere in Scripture are we commanded to render an unquestionable obedience to an organization. Nowhere does the Bible teaches that unity is attained by submitting to a religious group.

JWs have a list of criteria we should use to identify the true religion. According to them:

“Those who worship the true God base their teachings on the Bible … worship only Jehovah and make his name known… show genuine love for one another … accept Jesus as God’s means of salvation…are no part of the world … They take no part in [the world’s] conflicts … preach God’s Kingdom as man’s only hope. Of all the religious groups on earth, which one meets all these requirements?” (What Does the Bible Really Teach? 2005, 146-151)

These criteria are self-serving and circular. Any religion can make up its own criteria of a true religion, add some Bible verses to them and declare itself as the only religion meeting up with its own standards! Besides, JWs are not the only ones who meet the above. There are other religious sects that believe the same things they believe. For example:

1. Christadelphians

“[They] reject the Trinity. They believe in one supreme God … in eternal punishment of the wicked, but not in eternal torment; in hell, not as a place of torment, but as the grave; in resurrection of the just and unjust; in the utter annihilation of the wicked … Christadelphians take no part in politics, voting or military service” (The Oxford Dictionary of World Religions, 1997, 216).

2. Assemblies of the Called Out Ones of Yahweh.

[They] follow the main ideas of the Sacred Name Movement and are very clear in their rejection of both the Trinitarian position and the ‘Oneness’ or ‘Jesus Only’ position of some Pentecostals … Members of the assemblies refrain from military duty … [they believe] the Called Out Ones of Yah consists of the great multitude (which no one can number) from all nations being called out by Yah from all Babylonish religions to serve with Yeshua in the coming kingdom” (Encyclopedia of American Religions, 5th edition, 1996, 528).

3. Assemblies of Yahweh

“The Assemblies also publishes its own version of the Sacred Scriptures … [they teach] the necessity of believers’ affirming the divine names Yahweh and Yahshua … A non-Trinitarian position is maintained … Nonviolence and conscientious objection to war are stressed … Affiliated assemblies are located in 50 countries around the world. The missionary thrust, both foreign and domestic is concentrated through the Sacred Name Broadcast…” (Encyclopedia of American Religions, 529).

4. Assembly of YHWHHOSHUA

[These believe] the true revealed Name of the Almighty is YHWH. [They also claim] the King James (KJV) and other versions of the bible; translators have mistranslated the Divine Name, YHWH into the word ‘LORD’; and ‘GOD’ instead of ‘ELOHIM’ the Hebrew title for the Supreme Being…The members of the assembly of YHWHHOSHUA are to be separate from institutions, customs, traditions, styles and carnal pleasures of the United States as well as the world. A member in no way should participate into the affairs and practices of the world…nor should he be allowed to be a government official, to be a juror, or to serve in the Armed Forces … Christmas … and any other heathen holiday are not celebrated…” (Ency. of American Religions, Vol. 2 pp. 394-400).

If one thing is clear from these few examples, it’s that several other religious groups also adhere to the doctrines/practices that JWs think are unique to them. Therefore, the idea that Jehovah’s Witnesses have the “only true” religion on earth is false. The same criteria that make them true also make others true as well. To suggest otherwise is dishonesty, incoherence and intellectual suicide.

Some JWs may respond that these sects teach additional doctrines that are not part of Watchtower teaching. But The Watchtower (February 15, 2006) says: “Jehovah is … progressively illuminating the path of his people doctrinally … As Jehovah continues to shed light on his people, the gap between them and those of the world keeps on widening” (p. 27).

So we must also hope that Jehovah will also illuminate the paths of these other religious groups as he did for JWs. As they too “walk in the path of increasing light” they too will arrive at the exact doctrines JWs embrace.

This is the claptrap logic that JWs use to excuse their own past false prophesies and doctrinal flip-flops, but what applies to them must also apply to others as well. It’s called consistency. In their Awake! magazine they state:

“A sect is a dissenting group within a religious community or one that breaks away to form a new religion. Jehovah’s Witnesses have not broken away from any church. They are not a sect” (August 2010, page 6)

Any religious group can maintain its unity by excommunicating those who deviate from its beliefs. The outcome is that only those who agree with the established dogma would remain. That would be institutional unity, which is superficial. In fact, the Watchtower Society has been plagued with divisions right from its inception.

Charles Russell broke away from the Adventists to become the leader of the “Bible Students.” If Jehovah’s organization was already in existence before then, why didn’t Russell join it, instead of starting one?

The current JWs splintered from the Bible Student Movement in 1918 when Rutherford ousted the 4 Governing Board members. These men and their supporters continued as ‘Bible Students’ and held to Russell’s teachings, while Jehovah Witnesses who got their name later on, held to Rutherford’s teachings. JWs are in fact, a sect within a sect.

The Watchtower (November 1, 2009) says: “…unlike the Protestant movement, which has splintered into hundreds of denominations, Jehovah’s Witnesses have maintained a united global brotherhood” (p. 19).

This is a shameless denial of their own history. The Bible Fellowship Union splintered from the JWs in 1945. In 1981, the Watchtower Society was shaken by a series of schism that led to a large number of people exiting the organization. This mass exodus was led by professor James Penton (one of Russell’s early converts) who insisted on justification by faith.

The True Faith Jehovah’s Witness Association in Romania broke away from the JWs in 1992. The Lord’s Witnesses was founded in Britain by Gordon Ritchie an ex-JW. The Christian Witnesses of Jah broke away from the JWs in 2007 when Greg Stafford, a JW apologist, disagreed with their stance on blood transfusion.

The God’s Kingdom Society (founded by Gideon Urhobo, a Nigerian) also broke away from the JWs. Therefore, if churches lack God’s approval because of divisions, the same must be said about the Watchtower Society.

One point missing in the criteria JWs throw around is: what it means to be a Christian. The real question isn’t supposed to be whether you have a “true religion” or not but whether you are in Christ and He is in you. Romans 3:22 says “Everyone who believes has God’s approval through faith in Jesus Christ.” This is the only way to have God’s approval. It’s not by joining “a true religion

You have really complemented the efforts of those of us who have been here trying to showcase the hypocrisy, self made up standards, skewed self assessment and egocentric doctrines of these folks under self delusion bliss.

Mpeace:
If bonanza gang had allowed him buy then.

Rather if he had blocked his ears to the noise of the bonanza gang.