₦airaland Forum

Dedetwo:
Do you mean the same British which did everything humanly possible to imprison Zik while giving flowery tributes to Awo? Awo was an agent of British.

And how did the British ever attempt to imprison the very Zik who always played stooge to them? It was AG members like Enahoro that always repeatedly suffered imprisonment by the British because of their anti-British stance. Zik was the biggest agent of the British as he alone wanted the North to remain part of Nigeria at all cost. Recall that the British also wanted the North to be part of Nigeria to an undue advantage over the South. Now who between Awolowo and Zik discouraged the North from exiting Nigeria when it wanted to in 1954? With that you can know who was the actual agent of the British between Awo and Zik.

obynzo:
Comprehension is what you lack you are just trying to do tit for tat which is childish. In my mention did you see me write Ironsi abolished regions? Bros just throw in the towel your plan to spread hate has failed

Hahaha.....
Look at the mirror please. Do people restore what was never damaged? Simple question!

odogwux:
What is civilisation bikonu? Burying people alive because a despot aka king dies? Ritual murder and enslaving weaker people? The great Igbo race was too advanced to allow such barbaric societies to spring up. We had a system whereby the entire community was represented in a townhall democracy system. You guys were sheep but we were and will always be republicans.

Name one legacy of your Benin kingdom besides occultism and fetish practices that have kept you all where you are today. We no be mate o

I guess you ask the Europeans who said they met civilization in Benin.
All pre-colonial African kingdoms and empires were empires of blood and gore but with the advent of colonialism, it began to give way except in Nri where blood rituals have remained in vogue till today.

obynzo:
Oga just go and rest you have no talk. Please I am waiting for an NCNC document or letter head that shows the HQ being in the east.

Just as I am waiting for a similar letterhead containing Lagos as their head office address as at 1960 and beyond.

obynzo:
Gowon split the regions and it is very clear. Ironsi didn't split regions stop fooling yourself on social media.

You are the one fooling yourself. Ironsi split the regions into 35 provinces and imposed on them military governors whom he ordered to be taking instructions from him. That was the end of federalism.

nku5:
DeadlyLies the Igbos did not record songs or come out to jubilate as you so shamelessly lied but went mute like a drowning rodent when asked to prove your lies Nigerians on the other hand were happy generally across all tribes. Is that simple enough for you now?

Now kindly explain your contradictory statements that you were asked before.






You now claimed that one was after independence



So many lies on one thread, I pity people around you in real life

As per all the above, even you yourself know that you are just playing the devil's advocate as my point is very clear. Prior to independence we were under colonization hence Britain dictated what happened. But at independence and in living up to the true meaning of the word, they allowed Nigerians freedom to decide their fate.
Is this too difficult for you to understand? I suggest you look up your dictionary for the meanings of imperialism and independence.

Per your bolded, if you Igbos didn't celebrate the coup, then how did you welcome the coup like you have been arguing? When people welcome a thing, they celebrate that thing. And the Igbos we know could be very brash and arrogant even in a land far away from home. If not, why are you people the only non-native tribe always having issues in the North with the natives to the extent of issuing you a quit notice, killing you in large numbers like in 1945 and 1953? Why not any other tribe? There must be something annoying and irritating about your conduct outside home.

Even in the South South States, the story is not different. Why? It is even the SW that tolerates your aggressions and that is the very reason why they are the tribe you mostly disrespect and call all sorts of names with the most unprintable insults. On account of that, I have always blamed the SW for some of the problems you Igbos created in this country because they tolerate your nonsense too much thereby emboldening you to cause more problems with your arrogance in other regions. The SW has through history always bent over backwards to accommodate you Igbos in search of a non-existent Southern unity while you Igbos will only take advantage of their accomodating gesture and then turn around to insult them and portray them as demons and crooks.
Until the SW takes a firm and unwavering stand against you Igbos and defines very strict limits for you in their region, Nigeria will never know peace and progress.
The excessive liberal nature of the SW towards you Igbos is one major foundation of the problems in this country.

obynzo:
Oga you are the one that made an allegation first so why not be an honorable man and show us the document backing your allegations that NCNC HQ was in the east?

Is this the same you that have been making allegations here and asking me to go and find out the veracity of those allegations of yours through research?

odogwux:
Clifford Orji learned it in the South West nwokem

That of Clifford Orji predated all these instances you cited for the SW. So we could even more correctly infer that those now doing it in the SW were emboldened to start doing it after seeing Clifford Orji do it without justice being served him.

gidgiddy:
I suggest you go and read up on elementary government. The cornerstone of true federalism is Regions, resource control and fiscal responsibility, none of which Ironsi tampered with

Regions are far larger than states, thats why they command more powers and respect from the federal government. Regionalism makes power at centre to be weak. Thats why Gowon and his fellow Northerners quickly abolished the 4 Regions, replaced them with 12 states. Subsequent regimes kept dividing Nigeria and today we have 36 states

Ironsi kept resource control and fiscal federalism. What this means is that every Region controlled what was on its land and paid the federal government an agreed tax, which was 25%. It is keeping the bulk of whatever is realised in any Region, and paying the federal government a smaller percentage, that makes any country federal in nature. So, no matter how much Ironsi centralised the civil service, it didnt really affect the Regions as they kept much of what they earned. Ironsi had to run to the Regions every month for his 25%. Today, every state has to run to Buhari every month for their allocation so as to survive. The Federal government controls everything and decides who gets what.

Every country in West Africa went through military coup. Ghana had several military coups but Ghana still practiced Regionalism, resource control and fiscal federalism since its independence. Today, Ghana has a much higher standing in the international community than Nigeria

Of course we all know what it was about. Gowon and his fellow Northerners used 'divide and rule' to strengthen their hold on Nigeria. Thats why they came in, quickly abolished the 4 Regions, created 12 states, removed resource control and fiscal federalism and carried on creating more states until they got to 36.

Then they tried to sell the story that it was all Ironsi's fault

Did you read what you wrote above at all before posting?
In which school were you taught in Government that the largeness in size of subnational units in any country is what automatically confers federalism? If we are to follow your line of argument, then very small countries like Jamaica, Haiti, Seychelles, Cape Verde, and the likes can't ever practise federalism, right?
You are indeed a comedian par excellence.

In your cry about Gowon splitting the regions into states, what you seem to ignore is the fact that even if Ironsi had never introduced military rule, the regions would have still ended up being split further and further into smaller entities since the minorities in each region had started demanding their own separate regions and that the FG had started granting them as evidenced by the creation of the Midwest and the COR and Middle Belt Regions to have followed soon. So Gowon or no Gowon, there was no way the regions were going to have perpetually remained three or four. However, what we all know is that the pain of the typical Igbo man over Gowon's states creation is not really about the dismantling of federalism which they allege came with it but because it made them lose control over the Eastern minority areas which were rich in crude oil deposits. I believe you remember that the Igbo-controlled government of the Eastern Region resisted every call by the Eastern minorities for their own separate region while Balewa was still in power?

obynzo:
Oga just go and rest you have no talk. Please I am waiting for an NCNC document or letter head that shows the HQ being in the east.

Why not you rather showing me a document that NCNC was still domiciled in Lagos back then? You think you are smart with sophistry, right?

nku5:
I don't need any sound byte from any corrupt elitist corrupt potbellied criminal from the north or Yoruba land to tell me that the ordinary ppl in the streets were relieved to see the back of Balewa and co. I don't need to cite any more sources because you are an anti-intellectual who thinks he can lie his way through. The video of Fagbure should be simple enough even for people of your capacity

So Fagbore had become the representative of both the Yorubas, the Northerners and the Midwesterners? I never knew you were this pathetic.
Even you yourself have been trying to deny it here that Igbos celebrated the coup in the North but now you have changed tune to "the South was happy with the coup" as if Igbos were Northerners then. Can't you see your inconsistency?

nku5:
Have you seen DeadlyLies provide even ONE document in any of his posts. Lies are its oxygen. With documents It would suffocate immediately

I provided you with links upon links to my claims but all that you have been regurgitating here are Nnamdi Kanu's tales.

nku5:
1. The northerners celebrated the news of the overthrow of the Balewa government until propagandists began to do their work. The south was ecstatic until the counter coup. You are obviously not well read or exposed so these facts will be strange to you. The terrorised people of the west were the happiest. Gabriel Fagbure the yoruba journalist in that video celebrating the coup is simple evidence of the mood of the nation after the coup. If I have to keep teaching you I will need to send you an invoice

2. I thought you were just dishonest but you seem to have a learning disability as well. Coups were very common because the world was a different place. Germany you are using as an example had a Nazi coup just three decades before 1966 so your example is also DOA.

The only people happy with the coup were Igbos whose political leaders were left unhurt by the coupists. Can you quote any prominent Yoruba or Northerner or even a Midwesterner who, in representative capacity of his people made a public statement in support of the coup? You think other tribes are as brash, arrogant and senseless as you people?

And also tell us when military ever took over power in the US, UK, Canada, Japan asides from the fact that Nazism wrecked Germany and led it to a war that they regret till today just as your military coup culminated in a war that cost you over three million live which you still decry till tomorrow.
Above all that Nazi was a political party and not a military rule even though it ran a dictatorial but purposeful government with a clear ideology unlike the military governments which don't. So your citation of Germany and Nazi doesn't cut it.

obynzo:
I take this as an admission from you that Gowon reversed Ironsi's unitary decree. So you can see that Ironsi didn't put us into the quasi federal structure today. It was Gowon that started it by splitting the regions to states

I too take this as an acknowledgement by you that Ironsi actually abolished the regions and Gowon actually made an attempt to restore it but couldn't complete it. Would Gowon have had any restoration to do halfway if Ironsi had not destroyed anything in the first instance? Do you restore what was never damaged?

nku5:
You have contradicted yourself. Your operation wetie grammar is redundant

Why not just accept that you have been pummeled with superior argument? Were you expecting the British to have at independence still been acting like Nigeria was still under colonization?

obynzo:
You are the one that is frustrated as it is showing in all your responses. The frustration and the desperation shows how much you are in the back foot. you are simply struggling to save face not that you even understand Nigeria's history in the first place.

My guy a piece of advice to you. Don't let your quest to spread hate make you psych case or a nut job because the plan is not working for you.

As usual when boxed to a cul de sac regarding his conjured history he relapses into a fit of anger and begins to throw shades rather than address the issues raised. Please go and take your drugs.

odogwux:
What is civilisation bikonu? Burying people alive because a despot aka king dies? Ritual murder and enslaving weaker people? The great Igbo race was too advanced to allow such barbaric societies to spring up. We had a system whereby the entire community was represented in a townhall democracy system. You guys were sheep but we were and will always be republicans.

Name one legacy of your Benin kingdom besides occultism and fetish practices that have kept you all where you are today. We no be mate o

Of course you don't know the meaning of Civilization. If the Igbo race still eats human flesh (Clifford Orji for example) in this modern times then imagine how barbaric they were in the pre-colonial era.

nku5:
Awo is a hero to such because he introduced the tribalism and bitter politics without which they would be lost today.

Even after seeing the facts of the issue laid bare about the basis of Awolowo's position on Zik's intrusion into the Western Region you still toe this line of him introducing tribalism despite before 1951 Zik had been playing the tribal card by declaring that Igbos were destined to rule over Nigeria?

nku5:
In one post this liar says colonial officers had no input and throws Nnamdi Kanu in to sound smart



In another post he says Zik colluded with the colonia authorities. The same British that this liar agrees did not like Zik. See as you have tied yourself up in sophistry

It is obvious you are not conversant with the issues. Before Independence the British was lording it over Nigeria but the fight for independence became successful and the British had to loosen their grip. If they didn't loosen their grip would independence have been granted? Is this too difficult for you to understand?

Dedetwo:
You just made my point with the bolded. It was the British not Azikiwe were the final arbiter to what retained in colonial constitution handed to Nigeria. Zik could wish all he could, what either retained or not retained in the 1960 Nigerian constitution was stage-managed by British. I suggest to you and ilk to leave Zik out of your craziness.

Zik purposely courted and got the backing of the British to prevent secession clause. All that the British needed was just one voice of dissent which they always found in the East. I guess this should sink into your block head this time around.

Dedetwo:
Are you insinuating British, aid and Azikiwe are one entity? I guess from your level of intellect, the alleged threat of treason by the British to proponents of secession was ordered by Azikiwe. Most Nigerians cannot think.

It is obvious that your level of intellect doesn't even carry the logic in this debate. Are you suggesting you don't know how heavy the British might was? Didn't Azikiwe himself once fear British might when he refused to appear on the D-day for anti-colonialism symposium for which he had promised to deliver the keynote address?
If British desires were not laws, then why did he abscond that day?

nku5:
How can a video of Awo reading a speech at the constitutional conference and another speech at the opening of a t.v. station indicate that the British were just "observers" in our early constitutional process

So you expect the colonial officer to bring koboko to the conference to show he is in charge. Lol

Stop being evasive and tell us where the colonial officers made any input in the Independence Constitution. I don't even believe you have ever taken the pain to read that constitution because Nnamdi Kanu's propaganda has made you believe that the British just sat down one day, drafted it all by themselves with an anti-Igbo bias, and then handed it to Balewa to start using.

obynzo:
Bros let us look at Ironsi's speech again. He abolished regions right but he still kept the Military governors and had them control a collection of provinces so technically he didn't even destroy regionalism. What i feel he wanted to do was to remove that overt power that the regional premiers had which was the cause of the problem, and the mistake was the unification of the civil service which though in good faith because he wanted a central command structure similar to the military, but was misunderstood to be an attempt at Igbo domination especially by the north because their civil servant could not compete with their counterparts from the south.

It seems you don't even have any understanding of the difference between Unitary system and federalism. You think the mere existence of regions automatically translates to federalism.
Federalism is a measure of the degree to which regions or subnational units have autonomy and not just their mere existence. Do you get it now? Under Ironsi, did his groups of provinces enjoy autonomy like the former regions? A big NO. He rather directed the governors to be taking orders from him. Were Okpara, Akintola and Ahmadu Bello taking orders from Balewa in the truly regional federalism prior to Ironsi's coming. This is the long and short of this whole argument.

Per the bolded: the problem you Igbos had and still have till today is the assumption that only you people meant well for Nigeria while all others had bad intentions when in actual fact it is the other way round.
If you ask a Hausafulanis man he too will argue that all their kinsmen who ruled had good intentions but we're misunderstood. Same with Yorubas, Ijaws, etc. So if all our past and present leaders meant well and governed correctly, then who messed Nigeria up?
The remote cause of the crisis which Ironsi met on ground was the abuse of power by Tafawa Balewa at the center by way of his undue interference with the supposedly purely intra-Regional affairs of the West. Balewa also rigged the 1962 census and re-rigged the rerun in addition to his blatant rigging of the 1965 elections especially in the South. Now common sense dictated that the solution to all that was for the center to be further weakened to forestall such Balewa kind of abuse of power by all future prime ministers and presidents. But Ironsi came and did the exact opposite by way of making decrees which even further strengthened the center and weakened the regions thus laying a more fertile ground for a repeat of Balewa kind of abuse of power. And you say Ironsi acted in good faith but was only misunderstood? Such a claim is very illogical to the situation on ground back then. Ironsi simply had Igbo domination agenda and that was the truth.

obynzo:
Oga you are clearly a novice when it comes to miltary strategies. even you argument is so banal and childish. The there was already a functioning Biafran Navy in the creeks under Pascal Odu and Azuatalam. Also the westward thrust to Benin was done by the army. The detachments was to prevent a flanking or counter attack. Again the Navy was still young in Nigeria and most of the boats were in Biafran hands, so Oga try harder to look for means to discredit the igbo.

You are actually a crass ignoramus. How do all these answer the question I asked you? Were the naval bases not under the command of Nigeria actually, moreso that the riverine areas were not in support of Biafra considering the fact that Isaac Boro and his men were on the side of Gowon? Are you this dubious in your narratives? Can you show me a picture of the Biafran naval officers the way you had those of the Biafran army officers? Manipulator in Chief.

obynzo:
Bros it is either you are senseless or incredibly stupid. How in God's name are you tormenting me. Why can't you answer a simple question what was Zik's role in Biafra? you have attempted to shift goal posts and say bad thing about the igbo in a bid to avoid answering the question because it is clear you have no clue. You are scared that your lies will be brought to the open.

I see your penchant for abusive language as a symptom of some history of lunacy in your life. Else how can a supposedly normal and emotionally stable human being keep throwing insults without provocation?
You need to see your psychiatrist as soon as possible.
It is you that is not answering the real question which is this: Was the position of envoy not an administrative one?

Dedetwo:
Was Zik the final arbiter on which clause should be included in the constitution or not?

You mean you didn't read his own self confession in which he revealed that the British came to his aid and threatened the proponents of secession clause with treason charges and from then on the proponents had to capitulate?

odogwux:
There is nothing great about the so called bloodthirsty occult infested empires that you all called kingdoms. Unlike other kingdoms like those in Arabia and Europe that contributed to science and engineering the only thing that the Yoyo and Benin empires did was it enslaved weaker ppl and sacrifice many men, women and children to idols. Today cars still drive on roads built by the Romans. For una place na shrines and idols be the only legacy

The great Igbo race was the first to develop a system of town-hall democracy and hardly fought ourselves in major conflicts. We were generally at peace in our agrarian communities minding our business and our metalworking and Art was as advanced anything in Africa at the time. We lived in mudhuts like people in the so called kingdoms. Despite our superior numbers we never thought of conquering our neighbours because we were too busy trading and farming

The great Igbo race is the only one in Nigeria that visitors are safe. You can never hear that Igbos formed mobs and went from house to house in Igbo land killing innocent people like yoruba and hausa/fulani are known for. Upon all the empire talk you people are just savages and it's all down to your history

Thrash. Haven't you ever read it in any book that the same Europeans whose empires you so eulogize declared that they met civilization in Benin? Could they say same of your thrashy Igbo race?

Dedetwo:
The Dailylie does not know the difference between constitutional conference and writing of a constitution.

So where and how did the Independence Constitution come about Mr. Sophistry a.k.a. Ode two? You sound too arrogant and idiotic. Why do you have this penchant for abusive language? The same you who argued that the constitution expired when Nzeogwu and co struck yet ran away when asked what constitution thereafter gave Ironsi the recognition as GOC to take over power? Don't let me focus on your follies here.

Dedetwo:
Why do people from certain section of Nigeria tend to make fool of themselves in public? The constitutional conferences does not equate to writing a constitution. When Azikiwe was the Governor-General of Nigeria in 1960, he was just representative of HRM Queen Elizabeth. Every reference of authority ends with his HRM and UK Parliament. However in 1963 when the Nigeria became a Republic, the HRM Queen Elizabeth changed to President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria and UK Parliament changed to the Parliament of Federal Republic of Nigeria. The 1963 Federal Republic of Nigeria constitution was mere edited version of 1960 constitution.

I will for now pretend not to see your penchant for abusive language but know it now that you have no monopoly of it. I believe in civilized engagement. That said, may I ask you where and how the independence Constitution came into being.

bigpicture001:
Yes.....its dem

So why then haven't they given us the federalism?

obynzo:
Oga i repeat you are just a disgruntled element with no talk just to come online to spread hate, that is why you don't want to back down because your plans have been exposed and you have been beaten flat. Guy go and rest and join us in Buhari's Nigeria

You obviously have run out of cock and bull story responses.
The question again: Why was nothing said let alone agreed in Aburi on time to resume political activities towards elections if the genuine objective of the summit was about returning Nigeria to the pre-Ironsi status quo?

obynzo:
There were other people there Wada was there, Ribadu was there and Mbadiwe was there none of them said that Ironsi bullied them into handing over. Don't you think it is all lies?

And did these other people ever denounce the account when both Akinjide and Shagari gave it?