₦airaland Forum

obynzo:
When oooo. This man you can lie for Africa

This is your problem. What you are ignorant of you call it a lie. You are just too childish!
If Zik wasn't back to the side of the NNA then how come there were still issues of him still being president to be inviting the military to intervene as he refused to statutorily call upon Balewa to form the government?

obynzo:
But Ironsi that didn't last up to six months and only promulgated one decree the unitary decree which was later repealed by Gowon how did all laws get made by him? You see why I say most people maliciously twist history to suit their unconscious bias and their own narratives.

How long Ironsi stayed in power is not the issue here but that his deeds during his regime laid the foundation for all the structural failure we had today. Why must he take over power from the civilians despite there was no such provision in the constitution he, on his inauguration day as GOC, solemnly swore to protect and defend in all circumstances?
He couldn't even abide by his oath of office. Such an irresponsible leader of the army.

obynzo:
Oga your obsession with Zik and Igbos is not making you reason very well. If Zik wanted to cripple Awolowo how come NCNC and AG became a coalition in the 64 elections? So bros stop trying to skirt round the issue, and look for something more credible to use because this one doesn't hold water.

And didn't Zik still later dump the AG-NCNC alliance for the NNA?

gidgiddy:
It is very unfortunate that Nigerian history is not taught in schools so people just talk nonsense.

Ironsi's decree 34 only standardised the civil service, it did not tamper with Regionalism or true federalism.

When Ironsi came to power, there were 4 Regions. He kept 4 Regions

When Ironsi came in, there was resource control and fiscal federalism. Ironsi kept resource control and fiscal federalism

But when Gowon cane in and used Decree 14 to abolish all 4 Regions, replaced them with 12 states, removed fiscal federalism and resource control

A lot of people have been sold the false narrative that Ironsi destroyed true federalism, it was actually Gowon that did that with decree 14

So despite you seeing him repeatedly use the adjective "former" in describing the regions and even saying that Nigeria ceases to be what is called a federation you still argue that Ironsi didn't do anything to the regions? Bros, abeg this your ostrich playing is too much.
Supposing it was an army officer from another tribe that did exactly what Ironsi did to the constitution, would you have by now been arguing that that army officer didn't destroy federalism?

obynzo:
Bros let us look at Ironsi's speech again. He abolished regions right but he still kept the Military governors and had them control a collection of provinces so technically he didn't even destroy regionalism. What i feel he wanted to do was to remove that overt power that the regional premiers had which was the cause of the problem, and the mistake was the unification of the civil service which though in good faith because he wanted a central command structure similar to the military, but was misunderstood to be an attempt at Igbo domination especially by the north because their civil servant could not compete with their counterparts from the south.

The overt powers in possession of the regional premiers wasn't the problem. What caused the problem in the Western House of Assembly that attracted a coup eventually was abuse of power by the prime minister Tafawa Balewa. Please recall that the whole thing started when Balewa interfered in the otherwise legal and lawful impeachment proceeding which the AG party leadership had set in motion against Akintola. The Awolowo who was the leader of the faction of AG that moved the Akintola impeachment motion was no longer the premier at that point in time so I don't see how the issue of premier welding powers could be given as reason for the crisis. If anything, the premier Akintola himself had power being wielded against him democratically and lawfully by the party he belonged to and there was absolutely nothing wrong in that. Problem started when Balewa from the center intruded and tried to derail the process because he and Zik saw it as an opportunity to cripple the opposition AG. That was dirty politics and it is still the problem with the federal government at the center till today. You yourself can testify to how the FG has been hounding the opposition in this democracy since 1999.

bigpicture001:
Must everything politician do and say mean the best...?

Federalism is the best way toward for Nigeria........ppl will shut out their region completely from others if given the powers.......

Is it the politicians that are agitating for federalism?

obynzo:
Oga i repeat again stop playing smart. The same people like you are extolling Oyo Empire and Sokoto Caliphate and all of a sudden you want to twist the confederacy. Oga go and sit down you don't have any talk abeg. your desperation to spread hate against igbo has made you sound very stupid and childish. Once again you have refused to answer the question what was Zik's post in Biafra?

The bolded is a clear evidence that you are in torment. If not why couldn't you simply prove me wrong with superior arguments?
And may I ask you if Igbos love any other tribe? Which tribe have you people never insulted and called unprintable names just because they don't politically agree with you? Is it Hausafulani, Yoruba, Urhobo, Edo, Ijaw, etc? Which one? Your hitherto darling Wike has now become a bastard in your eyes just because he exercised his right to identify himself as he desired. So exactly which tribe do you love in this Nigeria?

obynzo:
Oga stop playing smart if you check all my previous comments i told you the reason why Zik was made an envoy for Biafra, but again you chose to pretend not to see it. Oga i would not stop tormenting you until you answer the question what was Zik's post in Biafra according to your reaearch?

We can easily see who feels tormented between you and me. Your tantrums in the face of questions here clearly shows you are the one under torment.
I have been asking you whether an envoy position is not administrative and you have refused to answer.

obynzo:
Oga i repeat again stop playing smart. The same people like you are extolling Oyo Empire and Sokoto Caliphate and all of a sudden you want to twist the confederacy. Oga go and sit down you don't have any talk abeg. your desperation to spread hate against igbo has made you sound very stupid and childish. Once again you have refused to answer the question what was Zik's post in Biafra?

And did the descendants of Oyo Empire and Sokoto Caliphate ever advocate unitary system for Nigeria the way you Aro Confederacy descendants did despite your empire attained greatness through confederacy?
Why do you always pretend to have comprehension problem?

bigpicture001:
Mr. Blame,I ask you what is wrong with federalism.... Is regionalism not a bad thing..?

If regionalism is a bad thing, then why are majority of your people complaining against the current structure of Nigeria?

obynzo:
You see why i say you are just full of shit and you don't know history let me give you a learning assignment go and read about the Aro Confederacy. The great igbo empire which in it's height was spread up to benue and up to Kwale. You see why I say you don't know history. You think it was just Oyo empire. Stupid Idiot. I feel sorry for your parents that sired you because you are a real disgrace to them

Per the bolded: So in precolonial times, despite how homogeneous you were as a people, you Igbos practised confederacy and it made you a great people, yet in a post colonial and very heterogeneous Nigeria you now became advocates of unitary system disguised as a call for one-Nigeria and national unity? It only means that deep down in your hearts you knew the right thing as far as how Nigeria would attain greatness within the shortest possible time was concerned but for your desire to dominate everybody (in Ahmadu Bello's words) you deliberately preferred the most dangerous and least promising system for Nigeria just because you hoped such alone guaranteed your becoming masters of all other tribes. I see.

Limitless72:
After Ironsi was assassinated, Nigeria had;
Murtala Mohammad
Yakubu Gowon
Olusegun Obasanjo
Shehu Shagari
Mohammadu Buhari
Ibrahim Babaginda
Adbulsalam Abubakar
Sani Abacha
Ernest shonekan
Umaru Yaradua
Goodluck Jonathan, et al
As subsequent heads of State. Since what Ironsi did was unacceptable and wrong, why didn't these above mentioned heads of state take us back to regional government, why..?


Can you now see Nigeria have no excuse not to have right the alleged unacceptable wrong of Aguiyi Ironsi? They had ample time and chances but failed to do the right thing


That's how people that sold their vote for #5000 will come out and say "God will punish Lord Lugard"....!

Are you aware that an attempt was made by Obasanjo to correct Ironsi's blunder in 1978 when he picked Professor Nwabueze (the same person who drafted Ironsi's unitary constitution) and as the head of the 1979 constitution drafting committee, and in the end Nwabueze through his committee again further centralized powers by further removing nearly 50% of the items in the concurrent and residual lists and transferring them to the exclusive list?
This tells you that Igbos are always there to sabotage whatever efforts other tribes may make to return Nigeria to the regional or truly federal system.

PDPdestroyer:
Shout-out to my favorite nairalanders - seunmsg, legendhero, arrewa, ODVanguard, GoatandYamTheory, Uptimum123, Golan007, NGpatroit, QuotaSystem, Ethicallyright (hope I got this correct), Deadlytruth, Sesan85, SilverNorGold and all other patriots on this forum
Edit: how on earth did I forget Omenka

Thanks

Zik read Anthropology from the prestigious Lincoln University in Pennsylvania, USA.
Anthropology is a course which deals with the study of human cultural evolution and to that effect it is a core principle in Anthropology that the best way to govern a multi-ethnic society is to use a system that allows every ethnic nationality to protect their own interests, decide their destiny, control their own affairs, maintain their beliefs, sustain their traditions and keep their cultural philosophies from undue interference until such a time that they on their own decide to make adjustments without any external force of other nationalities being involved. Obviously the two systems of government that guarantees such an atmosphere are federalism and confederalism but never unitary system.
Anthropology suggests that where a multi ethnic society is ruled by a tightly bound structure, there is the likely hood of clashes of culture and its attendant bloodshed. And that exactly is the situation with Nigeria today courtesy of the unitary system Ironsi plunged us into.
Now, after coming across all these principles in his course content in the US, Azikiwe returned home to start preaching unitary system for an ethnically diverse Nigeria in clear opposition to what he studied in school. If not for greed and domination agenda, how can a man return from school to advocate a system which his course content made him understand was going to be dangerous for his country?

Education is defined as any process an individual undergoes to become useful to himself and the society..... meaning that people are expected to come out of school and use the knowledge acquired therein to solve societal problems and organize the society better than they met it. But on return from school Azikiwe used his knowledge to disorganize the society and here we are today with bloodshed everyday resulting from clash of culture between Fulanis and middle beltern tribes, we have Boko Haram, we have Niger Delta militants, we have all sorts of violent groups all protesting the evil wrought on the land by the unitary system we are practicing exactly as Anthropology upholds.
If anything, Zik is the worst thing to happen to Nigeria.

melodyogonna:
Again, you don't know what you're saying. You don't understand how things worked then, there is no documentation. Zik did what he thought would be best for the future, with North, East and West together the country would be an economic powerhouse, rivalling the best countries in the world in almost anything. He sacrificed the prime minister position he would have had for that, it's sad it didn't turn out the way imagined, but it might have. With a little more visionary leader at those early days the country would have been a force to reckon with. I regret that it didn't work, now I would want nothing more than for Igbos to stay on their own, I'm genuinely tired of us being everyone's problem.

And the way to such bright future for Nigeria was the unitary system ( a very strong centre) that he was advocating in the disguise of one-Nigeria, right?
Didn't Zik live in the US for up to five years and with his own eyes saw how they rapidly developed to become the most powerful nation on earth through the practice of federalism defined by a relatively weak centre and autonomous states? Did he hear anyone preaching one-America over there?
The US where he studied was an ethnically diverse country which thrived on a very decentralized system to the admiration of the whole world. Nigeria was just a reflection of the US in terms of ethnic diversity hence common sense simply dictated that Nigeria's surest route to the same level of development as the advanced countries was a decentralized structure ( federalism in this case). But on return from the same US, your Zik who so wanted Nigeria to become like the US and others began preaching unitary system, acting against the true spirit of federalism by seeking to become premier of a region that wasn't his home region, fighting against secession clause, etc. So much for someone who wanted Nigeria to rapidly develop to the status of an advanced country.
Can't you see you are the one who doesn't really know what you are saying?
Those who genuinely wanted Nigeria to rapidly develop politically, militarily, economically and socially to catch up with the advanced countries were Awolowo, Enahoro, Tafawa Balewa, Ahmadu Bello and Isaac Adaka Boro as these were the figures who fought to have an equitable, just and fair Nigeria by way of true federalism marked by secession clause that would have forestalled the misgovernance we suffer till today, unlike Azikiwe, Ironsi, Ojukwu and Michael Okpara who were playing politics of chop-I-Chop and Igbo domination agenda through their advocacy of an omnipotent centre to which the regions will be slaves always going seeking mercy by way of federal allocation, quota system, etc. Imagine you Igbo people today begging the FG for Second Niger Bridge for nearly 40 years now when it is something that the Anambra and Delta State governors could have simply built many years ago if we had been practicing true federalism and resource control with secession clause policing the consciousness of the politicians at the center towards running a responsible government always.

obynzo:
Why are you being foolish with your response was it all igbos that sanctioned Zik to bail out during the coup. Akenzua made a decision and advised Gowon not to honour Aburi accord as it is his decision and the consequences was his fault. But how do you blame a tribe for the actions of one man. My grand father's were never consulted before the coup and neither did they give consent so why would I and my people be blamed for something we were not consulted. The same hypocrisy makes you guys say not all fulani are boko haram but all igbos are bad because of Jan 66 boys right.

But Igbos trooped into the streets of Kaduna rejoicing and celebrating immediately news of the coup and Ahmadu Bello's death broke out. They designed a poster showing Nzeogwu stepping on Ahmadu Bello's neck and made a recording in which Ahmadu Bello was impersonated as bleating like a goat being slaughtered by Nzeogwu.
And with all these you still deny that the coup didn't get your approval?
Even till today the way you Igbos living in other regions spite their hosts lends credence to all the above.
Take for example the offensive Lagos-is-no-man's land narrative which is peddled by only Igbos amidst all other non-Yoruba residents of the city.
In the North recently, the only non-native tribe given quit notice was Igbo. We have Edos, Urhobos, Efiks, Yorubas, Ijaws, etc living in the North but they have never been given quit notice by Northerners. Why Igbos alone? It means there is an irritating attitude you portray outside home.

obynzo:
Why are you being foolish with your response was it all igbos that sanctioned Zik to bail out during the coup. Akenzua made a decision and advised Gowon not to honour Aburi accord as it is his decision and the consequences was his fault. But how do you blame a tribe for the actions of one man. My grand father's were never consulted before the coup and neither did they give consent so why would I and my people be blamed for something we were not consulted. The same hypocrisy makes you guys say not all fulani are boko haram but all igbos are bad because of Jan 66 boys right.

You are the foolish one here. Whatever Zik did those times were done by him in representative capacity of the Igbos who voted him to the parliament from which he rose to the position he was holding. If you Igbos didn't support all the political atrocities he was comitting all over the country then, you could have simply started a process to recall him. As one of the leaders in a democracy and as a supposedly patriotic President and as a true nationalist and pan-Nigeriaist he had been claiming to be, what he should have done on getting wind of the coup plot was to report to the Prime Minister in order that an investigation panel be set up to find and try culprits and punish them according to the provisions of the extant laws. But rather than do so he quickly and selfishly ran to safety in a far away country citing medical needs. If the coup plotters were to have been majorly from other tribes he would have quickly exposed them and advised Balewa to investigate them.

obynzo:
It is clear you are a novice when it comes to Military tactics those a flank troops to prevent and north or south counter attack from the enemy stop all this spreading of hate by distorting history. You keep exposing your ignorance

Mr. Know It All On Military Tactics, please can you then explain why most of the flanks were in the Midwest as if was only the Midwest that enemies from the North and South could come through? And who exactly were these supposed enemies from the South? The same West Biafra was negotiating with for a joint secession? That would mean that Biafra wasn't even honest and sincere in its proposed joint secession with the West or Midwest to have regarded them as enemy regions to be flanked despite already in negotiations with them for joint secession. Can you now see why all other Southern tribes are vindicated for later refusing to work with Biafra?

obynzo:
Please research the British archives on the closing of the empire

Are you now asking me to help you search for evidence for your own claim?

obynzo:
Hope you know that the amphibious brigade used ijaw swimmers when fighting the biafrans in Warri. Bros you have no knowledge of military tactics you are even a poor military historian. Please to learn military history start with Alexander the Great with his battles and Hannibal along with Julius Ceasar's battles then you would start to understand strategies

If we are to buy your crap argument above, then why didn't Ojukwu send a detachment to Portharcourt and immediate environs since those were equally riverine areas indegenous to Ijaws?


Well, as at the earliest days of the war when the Biafran soldiers were thrusting westwards, there was yet no resistance from the riverine axis which Warri was part of. It was much later when Isaac Adaka Boro joined the Federal side against Biafra that the amphibious brigade arrived that axis.

obynzo:
Oga your obsession with hatred of igbos will kill you. Do you know that the Yoruba intelligentsia in Lagos sent a petition to Ironsi to spare the coup plotters that they were heroic and guess who were amongst the signatories. Woke Soyinka and Dr Femi Ayantuga

So how exactly does that change the fact that military intervention in politics is an aberration which brought Nigeria into the failed state it has become today? How does it change the fact that no Igbo politician died unlike their counterparts from every other region in a supposedly nationalistic coup?

[quote author=obynzo post=97511963][/quote]Which means you now agree that Azikiwe was desperately evil and didn't really mean well for other regions apart from his own despite all his posturing of one-Nigerianism and detribalization.

obynzo:
Oga you never agreed anything.You think you are clever you stated clearly that Zik was active in Biafra and I told you he was just an envoy and he was not involved in administration in Biafra which you disputed and so I ask you again what was Zik's role in Biafra because it seems you either are incredibly bereft of comprehension or you deliberately dodged that one because you have been foxed by me and you are uncomfortable.

Just let it be known that the era of lies about the igbo on nairaland is over. Me and my guys would battle you to a standstill. We know our history and we will do what it takes to let everyone know the truth and stop brandishing lies. Very soon more documents will come from me to disprove your lies.

And you are still claiming that the role of an envoy wasn't an administrative one?

Anyway, the original poser still remains thus; why did Ojukwu give a role in a secession movement to a person who so much carried a baggage of anti-secession credentials and yet excepted Awolowo to be attracted to that secession movement in which such a role was given to the very person who had been sabotaging his own secession bids in the parliament prior to that time? This is the simple question you have been avoiding and you know you really can't answer it in all honesty.

On Ifeajuna's way to the east that January 15 morning, he passed through Benin and could have just stopped over at Osadebey House and killed Dennis Osadebey but he didn't because that one somewhat had Igbo blood.
On arriving Enugu, Ifeajuna met Okpara one on one but rather than shoot him dead, he went into the premier lodge with him and they had a tete a tete after which Okpara helped him escape from Nigeria to Ghana for asylum. I guess all these were due to logistical failures as well.

obynzo:
In which sector of the coup was there a failure of the coup? In the Lagos sector and this was logistic failures that gave it an ethnic colouration and I don't blame anyone honestly if they have that notion, but my own anger is that these guys clearly acted on their own their mistakes their actions and inactions were clearly their own doing so why would a whole tribe be blamed for their actions? But most of us conveniently didn't blame the middle belt when Dimka plotted his coup, you see the hypocrisy here.

Don't you think you Igbos are equally guilty of the bolded by putting the blame of Akenzua's alleged role in the failure of Aburi Accord on all Edo people despite knowing fully well that Akenzua as of then was working in permanent secretary capacity for the establishment hence wasn't representing Edo people or their interest in any democratic sense?

On your excuse of logistic failure as being responsible for the selective execution of the coup; I have this question to ask:

Azikiwe was one of those penciled down by the coupists for death. In fact according to some accounts he was the prime target. Now Azikiwe left the country three clear months to the D-day of the coup and his exit from Nigeria was well published in the papers to the knowledge of the public and the coupists. But knowing fully well that their prime target had escaped and wasn't likely to return anytime soon, the coupists still went ahead to carry out the coup. Why?

It is like claiming that you want to set a particular bush on fire because of a rat living in it, but the rat somehow got wind of your plans and relocated from the bush and you got informed about it but you still set the bush on fire all the same. Then it means your actual reason for wanting to burn the bush was not the rat but for a totally different selfish reason while just using the rat as a cover up.

obynzo:
Oga those detachments were used to flank the enemy and aid the movement of the forward troops to Lagos. Stop trying to be smart.

So the enemy was approaching through the Midwest alone? May I ask you which enemy was approaching from the Warri axis to which a detachment was also drafted. Were there enemies coming from out of the sea which is the only territory beyond Warri?

obynzo:
Oga If you must know the terms of reference for the talks at Lancaster House for independence was clearly spell out by the British, and it was that the borders of colonial Nigeria would never be redrawn or changed.

Would you mind providing a source for this claim?

obynzo:
Do you know you talk like a child the person you are hailing is simply feeling uncomfortable because most of us that know history are challenging him. First he claimed zik scattered NYM and i asked him how is it possible when he joined NYM in 1938 much later and then he next talked about non secession clause and i called him out on his lies and he had no answer. now i have asked him to state what was Zik's post in Biafra because he stated that Zik was involved in Biafra. He is trying to cleverly dodge the question.
why do you lots gain by vilifying igbos when that coup even had Yorubas there as planners Ademoyega and Fola Oyewole

Igbos are blamed about the coup not because of the ethnic composition of the planners but the heavily lopsided ethnic pattern of the execution and killings which spared all Igbo politicians but consumed their colleagues from other regions and tribes despite they all participated in the allegedly fantastically corruption ridden government of the day.
Why was no single Igbo politician killed despite there were up to three of them in the coupists hit list?

obynzo:
Bros don't try to avoid me. come and tell us what was Zik's post in Biafra? you think you can come and incite tribal hatred on this forum?

Are you really this much of an expert in devil's advocacy? Haven't we agreed that Zik was an envoy but only trying to know from you whether he appointed himself or Ojukwu appointed him? Am I to assume you are having comprehension challenges?

obynzo:
@nku5 has busted your lies. Dude you cannot win this one. There are igbos that really know their history for long you guys have spread lies so much just to vilify the igbos

Do you even know what it means to burst a lie? The same nku5 that has not been able to answer my question as to why Ojukwu failed to punish those Biafran soldiers that detached to Auchi Okene Agenebode Warri and Okene if Ojukwu didn't give them such instructions?

Dedetwo:
Bro, I guess you did not forget who gave Nigeria the constitution. The 1960 Nigerian constitution was the one the colonialists used before the independence. In 1963, it was merely edited. HRM, Queen of UK was changed to President of Nigeria.

I disagree with you. The Independence Constitution was a we-the-people constitution produced entirely from inputs by the freely elected representatives from all federal constituencies to the 1957 London Constitutional conference. The British had no input in it at all. Here is a video of it. Note the British guys in the background who were only watching the proceedings in observer capacity. Happy watching:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m_Q60YfVJ8

nku5:
So human beings with fully developed brains believe that Zik was powerful enough to force his will on the British and all the other tribes leaders regarding a secession clause in the Nigerian constitution

Chai this Igbo obsession should be designated as a kind of madness walahi

Zik relied on and used the British might of threat to have his way in that debate as the British helped him to threaten the secession proponents to capitulation with treason charges.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenewsnigeria.com.ng/2017/06/25/my-opposition-to-secession-zik/amp/

Recall that Ironsi and Ojukwu used the military might of Zik's one-Nigeria army to crush Isaac Boro's secession bid.